Woman, 82, knocked to ground by knife-carrying Meadows mugger

[Jamesie]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Woman-82-knocked-to-ground.5477564.jp

"The suspect is in his late 20s, 5ft 10in to 5ft 11in tall, slim, with a gaunt face, short dark brown hair, with flaky skin around his cheekbones. He had dark eyes and missing teeth, and was wearing a dark blue puffa jacket, dark blue jeans and dark trainers."

Maybe I'm getting even more right wing these days but can anyone tell me why we shouldn't at least impose corporal punishment in addition to prison for this kind of ****bag?

[Woody1985]

Classic description of a junkie.

I used to love being Scottish but they place is a **** hole full of ****bags.

[Dashing Bob S]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Woman-82-knocked-to-ground.5477564.jp

"The suspect is in his late 20s, 5ft 10in to 5ft 11in tall, slim, with a gaunt face, short dark brown hair, with flaky skin around his cheekbones. He had dark eyes and missing teeth, and was wearing a dark blue puffa jacket, dark blue jeans and dark trainers."

Maybe I'm getting even more right wing these days but can anyone tell me why we shouldn't at least impose corporal punishment in addition to prison for this kind of ****bag?


No mention of a PBS season ticket?

[hibbybrian]

No mention of a PBS season ticket?

maybe the police are waiting outside the PBS to try and spot the culprit in the 400,000 long queue for season tickets :greengrin

[Steve-O]

Charlie Adam?

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Woman-82-knocked-to-ground.5477564.jp

"The suspect is in his late 20s, 5ft 10in to 5ft 11in tall, slim, with a gaunt face, short dark brown hair, with flaky skin around his cheekbones. He had dark eyes and missing teeth, and was wearing a dark blue puffa jacket, dark blue jeans and dark trainers."

Maybe I'm getting even more right wing these days but can anyone tell me why we shouldn't at least impose corporal punishment in addition to prison for this kind of ****bag?

Well if capital punishement would stop this sort of thing happening, I'm all for it, :agree:

IMO, a radical rethink of the "war on drugs" would have a much better chance of stopping vermin like that resorting to such measures, and keep the rest of us safer.

It's pretty easy, Junkies steal to buy drugs at an inflated price. Why not supply the drugs at a price they can afford, and take them out of the crime system?

[CropleyWasGod]

Well if capital punishement would stop this sort of thing happening, I'm all for it, :agree:

IMO, a radical rethink of the "war on drugs" would have a much better chance of stopping vermin like that resorting to such measures, and keep the rest of us safer.

It's pretty easy, Junkies steal to buy drugs at an inflated price. Why not supply the drugs at a price they can afford, and take them out of the crime system?

Been saying that for years, FR. Bringing the drug supply under public control is the way forward:-

1. protects the addict from inconsistent supply.

2. protects the public from petty crime and violence.

3. cuts out the Mr. Bigs almost at a stroke.

They tried it in an area of Switzerland. For every extra £3 it cost the State in terms of administering the system, it saved the State £5 in police costs.

Problem is, of course, no politician is ever going to propose it. (I can just see the Daily Mail now.... "Barmy MP wants legalised junkies".) Result? The status quo.

[Killiehibbie]

Been saying that for years, FR. Bringing the drug supply under public control is the way forward:-

1. protects the addict from inconsistent supply.

2. protects the public from petty crime and violence.

3. cuts out the Mr. Bigs almost at a stroke.

They tried it in an area of Switzerland. For every extra £3 it cost the State in terms of administering the system, it saved the State £5 in police costs.

Problem is, of course, no politician is ever going to propose it. (I can just see the Daily Mail now.... "Barmy MP wants legalised junkies".) Result? The status quo.

Must be worth a try. It would almost empty prisons and free up thousands of police and court hours. Prohibition doesn't work.

[CropleyWasGod]

Must be worth a try. It would almost empty prisons and free up thousands of police and court hours. Prohibition doesn't work.


A drugs worker once said to me that, if he could guarantee a safe supply, he would have a queue outside his door of every addict in the city.

Interestingly enough, The Wire recently featured an experiment along those lines. In this case, it was a rogue police initiative, but the issues were the same...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

No idea what the solution is but things do appear to have come off the rails in terms of respect. Drugs & family breakdowns are more prevalent I guess.

But what struck me when reading about the Krays (John Pearsons - The Professionals of violence) was:

1) they went to borstal
2) they got the birch
3) I think they did a spell in the army

Yet they still carried on. I know they are probably a breed still these things dont always provide the answer folks look for....

Cant remember why they got life and not the gallows as I'm terrible at finishing books :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

Where in the article does it say that the suspect is a drug abuser? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Where in the article does it say that the suspect is a drug abuser? :confused:

Actually, before I got involved in my bit of posturing, that was my thoughts too. Sad that, as a society, we automatically assume that every petty crime is committed by a "junkie ned". Sad, but the reality is often just that. However, it's also a mark of society that we need to find a scapegoat; it's always easy to blame the drug abuser.

[Killiehibbie]

Where in the article does it say that the suspect is a drug abuser? :confused:

Going by the description i'd give you 10/1 he wasn't.

[Woody1985]

Going by the description i'd give you 10/1 he wasn't.

It's immediately obvious that it's a junkie. I'd be happy to commit that it's a smack head 100 times out of 100.

I see them almost daily. Probably away for their next score bag.

[Betty Boop]

It's immediately obvious that it's a junkie. I'd be happy to commit that it's a smack head 100 times out of 100.

I see them almost daily. Probably away for their next score bag.

Really! I like how some on here label people and put them in little boxes. Maybe the suspect is a desperado or an alcoholic?

[Woody1985]

Really! I like how some on here label people and put them in little boxes. Maybe the suspect is a desperado or an alcoholic?

Or all 3.

This whole 'defend everyone' malarky gets a bit tiring to be honest. You're more concerned about the guy whose description matches that of a herion addict than the person he just robbed at knifepoint.

[Betty Boop]

Or all 3.

This whole 'defend everyone' malarky gets a bit tiring to be honest. You're more concerned about the guy whose description matches that of a herion addict than the person he just robbed at knifepoint.

Hardly!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

Or all 3.

This whole 'defend everyone' malarky gets a bit tiring to be honest. You're more concerned about the guy whose description matches that of a herion addict than the person he just robbed at knifepoint.

Me neither. :confused:

[Chuckie]

The suspect is in his 20s, 5ft 10in to 5ft 11in tall, slim, with a gaunt face, short dark brown hair, with flaky skin around his cheekbones. He had dark eyes and was wearing a dark blue puffa jacket, dark blue jeans and dark trainers.


Did he smell of beans perchance ?

:cool2:

[Pete]

Been saying that for years, FR. Bringing the drug supply under public control is the way forward:-

1. protects the addict from inconsistent supply.

2. protects the public from petty crime and violence.

3. cuts out the Mr. Bigs almost at a stroke.

They tried it in an area of Switzerland. For every extra £3 it cost the State in terms of administering the system, it saved the State £5 in police costs.

Problem is, of course, no politician is ever going to propose it. (I can just see the Daily Mail now.... "Barmy MP wants legalised junkies".) Result? The status quo.

I'm not sure it is the way forward as it normalises drug use.

We will still have streets full of drunks at the weekend but we will also have streets full of people who are smacked, jellied, stoned and eccied out their head. I simply wouldn't go out at night.

If these drugs were legalised...what about the mental health issues?

The only real way is to keep drugs illegal but divert more funds towards getting rid of them. There are plenty available but we choose to divert funds down the pan...i.e. stupid wars!

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not sure it is the way forward as it normalises drug use.

We will still have streets full of drunks at the weekend but we will also have streets full of people who are smacked, jellied, stoned and eccied out their head. I simply wouldn't go out at night.

If these drugs were legalised...what about the mental health issues?

The only real way is to keep drugs illegal but divert more funds towards getting rid of them. There are plenty available but we choose to divert funds down the pan...i.e. stupid wars!

TBH, I wouldn't expect it to be just about the supply. It would also have to be about education, about mental health issues like you say, about safe alternatives, and support until the addict is ready to come off. The classic Harm Reduction model.

As for the streets being some sort of war zone, surely it wouldn't be any worse than it is just now? Indeed, with safe shooting galleries, they may even be safer.

I think it has to be worth a try. Simple fact is, that as long as there is big money in drugs, the war is almost unwinnable. Everybody suffers.... the addict, their families, and of course the victims of crime.

[Pete]

TBH, I wouldn't expect it to be just about the supply. It would also have to be about education, about mental health issues like you say, about safe alternatives, and support until the addict is ready to come off. The classic Harm Reduction model.

As for the streets being some sort of war zone, surely it wouldn't be any worse than it is just now? Indeed, with safe shooting galleries, they may even be safer.

I think it has to be worth a try. Simple fact is, that as long as there is big money in drugs, the war is almost unwinnable. Everybody suffers.... the addict, their families, and of course the victims of crime.

It's a hard one because your argument regarding supply is sound.

However, I can imagine the streets being a lot nastier. There already are "shooting galleries" in Edinburgh which the police know about and turn a blind eye to. Castle Terrace car park and it's surrounding areas is that place because of it's closeness to the needle exchange on spittal street. It's an absolute hell-hole on certain occasions and it's as if the authorities just want to keep things in that specific area. Strange considering the amount of tourists that frequent that area.

If shooting galleries were a reality then the intoxicated people would still have to go somewhere after they have used the facilities. If drugs were normalised then there would be a damn sight more of them due to the addictive nature of the drugs involved. There would be no taboos as far as kids are concerned and the majority would try the hardest available...leading to more addicts in my opinion.

A more realistic answer might be to legalise some drugs but keep some illegal...such as heroin and crack cocaine...the ones that do the real damage in my opinion.

The extra revenue brought in by taxing cannabis, cocaine and E should be diverted into projects that eradicate the real demons.

[Woody1985]

It's a hard one because your argument regarding supply is sound.

However, I can imagine the streets being a lot nastier. There already are "shooting galleries" in Edinburgh which the police know about and turn a blind eye to. Castle Terrace car park and it's surrounding areas is that place because of it's closeness to the needle exchange on spittal street. It's an absolute hell-hole on certain occasions and it's as if the authorities just want to keep things in that specific area. Strange considering the amount of tourists that frequent that area.

If shooting galleries were a reality then the intoxicated people would still have to go somewhere after they have used the facilities. If drugs were normalised then there would be a damn sight more of them due to the addictive nature of the drugs involved. There would be no taboos as far as kids are concerned and the majority would try the hardest available...leading to more addicts in my opinion.

A more realistic answer might be to legalise some drugs but keep some illegal...such as heroin and crack cocaine...the ones that do the real damage in my opinion.

The extra revenue brought in by taxing cannabis, cocaine and E should be diverted into projects that eradicate the real demons.

I think one of the main reasons some drugs aren't legalised is the taxation issue. How much tax would you put on a gram of coke or a half ounce of hash? The government would have the costs too high and the dealers would undercut them leaving us in the same situation.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm not sure it is the way forward as it normalises drug use.

We will still have streets full of drunks at the weekend but we will also have streets full of people who are smacked, jellied, stoned and eccied out their head. I simply wouldn't go out at night.

If these drugs were legalised...what about the mental health issues?

The only real way is to keep drugs illegal but divert more funds towards getting rid of them. There are plenty available but we choose to divert funds down the pan...i.e. stupid wars!

I don't think we'd have many people out of their face on jellies, for the simple reason that they more or less wipe you out from the time you take them. Likewise I don't think cannabis or ecstacy are really associated with violent or aggressive behaviour.

Experience elsewhere - Holland, suggests that legalising drugs actually decreases the number of users.

The mental health issue one is contentious. There is evidence that cannabis use could be a cause of schizophrenia for example. But this is complicated by the fact that many people with schizoid and psychotic symptoms use drugs to cope.

Then there is the issue of legal drugs - the ones that doctors deal in. There is no proof that these are any safer than the illegal ones that people buy "on the street". However because a man in a white coat says take them they must be OK.

I truly beleive that most people would not want to spend their lives out of their face on drugs. I think it would be much more sensible if people were educated as to what the drugs do and allowed to make a free choice.

I think we have wasted too much money on "the war on drugs" already. The more they spend, the more people take them. At the end of the day people are free to climb mountains and drive racing cars, but aren't free to take relaxing medications.

What pees me off is the level of ignorance displayed by those implementing drugs policy. You just have to listen to some of the utter garbage spouted about cannabis by politicians to realise they shouldn't be making decisions on the subject.

The fact is there has been no significant increase in psychotic illnesses in recent years - despite the so called SuperSkunk that is supposed to cause it. Yet despite the reccommendations of psychiatrists and other stakeholders who do know about drugs, the Home Secretary decided to igore the report she commissioned and reclassify cannabis.

I think the real people to listen to on the subject are the Police and mental health professionals. If it really was a social menace, if it really did send people mad then they would be the first to advocate control. Instead they are for liberalisation.

There are plenty of other things that send people mad: unemployment, social disintegration, sexual abuse. The money and effort would be better targetted at them, rather than a sticking plaster that stops the bleeding on the surface but has the patient haemorrhaging inside.

[Woody1985]

I don't think we'd have many people out of their face on jellies, for the simple reason that they more or less wipe you out from the time you take them. Likewise I don't think cannabis or ecstacy are really associated with violent or aggressive behaviour.

Experience elsewhere - Holland, suggests that legalising drugs actually decreases the number of users.

The mental health issue one is contentious. There is evidence that cannabis use could be a cause of schizophrenia for example. But this is complicated by the fact that many people with schizoid and psychotic symptoms use drugs to cope.

Then there is the issue of legal drugs - the ones that doctors deal in. There is no proof that these are any safer than the illegal ones that people buy "on the street". However because a man in a white coat says take them they must be OK.

I truly beleive that most people would not want to spend their lives out of their face on drugs. I think it would be much more sensible if people were educated as to what the drugs do and allowed to make a free choice.

I think we have wasted too much money on "the war on drugs" already. The more they spend, the more people take them. At the end of the day people are free to climb mountains and drive racing cars, but aren't free to take relaxing medications.

What pees me off is the level of ignorance displayed by those implementing drugs policy. You just have to listen to some of the utter garbage spouted about cannabis by politicians to realise they shouldn't be making decisions on the subject.

The fact is there has been no significant increase in psychotic illnesses in recent years - despite the so called SuperSkunk that is supposed to cause it. Yet despite the reccommendations of psychiatrists and other stakeholders who do know about drugs, the Home Secretary decided to igore the report she commissioned and reclassify cannabis.

I think the real people to listen to on the subject are the Police and mental health professionals. If it really was a social menace, if it really did send people mad then they would be the first to advocate control. Instead they are for liberalisation.

There are plenty of other things that send people mad: unemployment, social disintegration, sexual abuse. The money and effort would be better targetted at them, rather than a sticking plaster that stops the bleeding on the surface but has the patient haemorrhaging inside.

Highlighted by the fact that cannabis is a hash and skunk is marajuana. Most people smoke either soap bar, pollon or grass (marajuana (whatever type)).