HIV Infection - Intentionally passing it on.

[Woody1985]

In relation to the other thread, I just wanted to guage opinion on the above poll.

I found it completely and utterly baffling that someone could disagree with punishment for INTENTIONALLY passing on HIV to another person.

My definition of intentional is; a person knows they have HIV and gives it to another person without warning them (perhaps one night stand) or deliberately tries to give it to them (multiple times).

I had used the words 'strung up' on the other thread but we'll omit that from here and just go with the current law; criminal infection. I don't want a death penalty debate to skew the results.

[danhibees1875]

I thought it was. :confused:

[McHibby]

[without having read the other thread]

To be honest, I don't. What is difference between knowingly passing on HIV and knowingly passing on Chlamydia? Should someone who passes on Chlamydia or Crabs be charged with GBH too?

I am partly saying this as a law student. Where would we draw the line? Would you be able to sue someone because they came into work when they knew they were ill, and passed the flu/tonsillitus/shingles etc etc etc to you?

HIV is already stigmatised enough without people being taken to court. There are two (or more :greengrin) people involve in having sex - not just one - the other person, male or female, could (and probably should) insist using a condom.

[Steve-O]

[without having read the other thread]

To be honest, I don't. What is difference between knowingly passing on HIV and knowingly passing on Chlamydia? Should someone who passes on Chlamydia or Crabs be charged with GBH too?

I am partly saying this as a law student. Where would we draw the line? Would you be able to sue someone because they came into work when they knew they were ill, and passed the flu/tonsillitus/shingles etc etc etc to you?

HIV is already stigmatised enough without people being taken to court. There are two (or more :greengrin) people involve in having sex - not just one - the other person, male or female, could (and probably should) insist using a condom.

At least the other ones you mention can be cured, getting HIV I imagine is a life changing experience and is effectively terminal in way!

Isn't it illegal already? I know it's illegal over here in NZ because there has been a case on the news in the past couple of weeks where a guy has been arrested for intentionally infecting people and an appeal has been put out to anyone who recognises him and has had 'relations' - apparently 35 guys have come forward already!! :shocked:

Here is the link - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/2520653/Fears-for-30-more-people-in-HIV-infection-case

[PeeJay]

In relation to the other thread, I just wanted to guage opinion on the above poll.

I found it completely and utterly baffling that someone could disagree with punishment for INTENTIONALLY passing on HIV to another person.

My definition of intentional is; a person knows they have HIV and gives it to another person without warning them (perhaps one night stand) or deliberately tries to give it to them (multiple times).

I had used the words 'strung up' on the other thread but we'll omit that from here and just go with the current law; criminal infection. I don't want a death penalty debate to skew the results.


I think it already is a criminal offence in certain circumstances.

"As of 2008 a person can only be convicted of reckless sexual HIV transmission if there is “a sustained course of conduct during which the defendant ignores current scientific advice regarding the use of safeguards”. This implies that a single act of unprotected sex is not enough to constitute reckless behaviour. Reckless HIV transmission is only punishable in court if HIV is actually passed on and if the defendant is aware of their HIV status3" http://www.avert.org/aids-uk.htm

[McHibby]

At least the other ones you mention can be cured, getting HIV I imagine is a life changing experience and is effectively terminal in way!

Isn't it illegal already? I know it's illegal over here in NZ because there has been a case on the news in the past couple of weeks where a guy has been arrested for intentionally infecting people and an appeal has been put out to anyone who recognises him and has had 'relations' - apparently 35 guys have come forward already!! :shocked:

Here is the link - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/2520653/Fears-for-30-more-people-in-HIV-infection-case

Yeah, I'm pretty certain it is illegal. I am just not sure whether it should be. Chlamydia can cause infertility (as can gonorrhoea), so it can have life-long consequences. Syphilis can cause organ damage and death..but you don't hear of folk getting taken to court for knowingly infecting someone with these. Although none of these diseases are immediately associated with gays/drug addicts.

It would interesting to know what people think about someone who knowingly has HIV sharing a needle with another addict. Does anyone think that the HIV positive person in that case should be prosecuted, or was it the druggies own fault?

[Woody1985]

It is currently law, that's what I've said in my last paragraph.

If druggies share needles and the person using it after the infected person knows the person is infected then that's clearly their own fault.

The same as if someone has sex with someone knowing the other person has it.

My issue is people who do not declare and infect other people which also applies to drugs.

Am at work just now so can't give all my opinions on the points just now.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain it is illegal. I am just not sure whether it should be. Chlamydia can cause infertility (as can gonorrhoea), so it can have life-long consequences. Syphilis can cause organ damage and death..but you don't hear of folk getting taken to court for knowingly infecting someone with these. Although none of these diseases are immediately associated with gays/drug addicts.

It would interesting to know what people think about someone who knowingly has HIV sharing a needle with another addict. Does anyone think that the HIV positive person in that case should be prosecuted, or was it the druggies own fault?

The other STD's mentioned are all treatable though, that's the difference for me. Of course HIV is manageable, but it will never go away.

As for the other scenario, I would say prosecute in that situation as well. If someone knows they have it, they should be doing anything they can to minimise the risk to others, anything else is just completely reckless.

[Darth Hibbie]

There is at least one person in Scotland that has been convicted of this. I will see if I can did anything up on it.

Edit

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1171986.stm

In this case he would appear that he deliberately misled the female.

[Hibs Class]

It's not only already illegal, but has also been successfully prosecuted at least once in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5094708.stm

[HibsMax]

Yes it should be illegal and punishable since it can be terminal if it develops into full blown AIDS.

There are so many ways you could spread other diseases like influenza but HIV is pretty specific. Like herpes. It would be awful if a person came into work with the flu, passed it on and someone died but it would be much harder to prove they had any criminal intent than a guy (for this example) who sticks his poisonous dick in a woman.

[(((Fergus)))]

If you sleep with someone without going through the proper vetting procedures (no pun intended) then you deserve everything you get.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What happened to the safe sex message?

"This is not the voice of an actress" - as Rob Newman said "Right from now on I'm only ****ging actresses!"

But seriously if you are fooling around you gotta think about it. The 80s scared the crap out a generation somewhere along the way we lost the way.

[joe breezy]

I voted yes. I was really surprised when I saw a web-site that said criminalising HIV is wrong. It seems that some activists think that HIV transmission is a 2 way street but I don't think it's reasonable to assume everyone you have sex with has HIV - most people don't

Anyone who intentionally infects someone with an incurable disease is **** in my opinion

[HibsMax]

If you sleep with someone without going through the proper vetting procedures (no pun intended) then you deserve everything you get.
That seems a little harsh. What if the person with HIV doctored the condom so that the infection could be spread to an unsuspecting person? Remember, this thread is about punishing people who deliberately spread a terrible disease. If someone is doing this deliberately then we have to consider the possibility that they might be sneaky about it.

[CropleyWasGod]

If you sleep with someone without going through the proper vetting procedures (no pun intended) then you deserve everything you get.

What would you class as the proper vetting procedures? A full medical examination before each encounter?

[CropleyWasGod]

I voted yes. I was really surprised when I saw a web-site that said criminalising HIV is wrong. It seems that some activists think that HIV transmission is a 2 way street but I don't think it's reasonable to assume everyone you have sex with has HIV - most people don't

Anyone who intentionally infects someone with an incurable disease is **** in my opinion

I think the movement you are describing is more about resisting a blanket criminalising of transmission , including unintended and "unknowing". Africa has recently seen a lot of countries going down that route, which the UN have come out against. I'll let you read their views, but basically it feels that criminalisation only leads to further stigmatisation. http://criminalhivtransmission.blogspot.com/2009/06/un-secretary-general-ban-ki-moon.html

It also leads to a culture where people won't get tested, so that they can (they think) adopt the defence that "I didn't know I had it, so how can I be blamed?".

[Dashing Bob S]

In general terms one would undoubtedly say yes, but there has to be an obvious qualification: if one of us infects one of them. As a Hobo AIDS-ridden peg-seller, I consider it my duty to transmit my all of my diseases to as many Jambo's as possible. In fact, this is ONLY circumstance under which having sex with a Jambo is in any way acceptable.

My modus operandi involves getting out the trusty fiddle and heading down to their new £51million hotel and stand development, and playing some head-spinning ballads to entertain them while they foot-tap with their tartan blankets on their knees and throw me coins. When they grow bored with this sport and retire to their all-male Masonic meetings, leaving me alone with their wives and girlfriends (not young daughters, the Simpson’s* have concerned that particular market for themselves), I quickly spring into action.

With salty tales of the immigrant struggle to survive on the streets of Edinburgh, and racy gypsy reels from my trusty fiddle, I woo the cream of Scottish white Jambette womanhood, enticing them back to my Merchiston caravan, where they are mere putty in my hands. Yes, they might be ‘mingers’, but I circumvent this potentially hazardous pitfall by clipping one of my copious pegs onto my nose, pacifying the Jambette with the assurance that this is an old gypsy custom to increase sexual potency. It actually works, and they now line up outside my dwelling waiting patiently for their turn as a violin recording of the Housemartin's hit 'Caravan of Love' fills the air from my knock-off sound system.

As a result of my efforts, AIDS is now rife amongst the Yam population, who, as a result of clean-living, and pampering in their Wester Hailes bungalows, lack not have our levels of resistance to the disease. My methods have proved so succesfull, that in three years I’ve single-handedly managed to reduce the Yam population from an estimated 400,000 to a far more managable 12,000. (Not counting the stand.)

A mob of Yams recently attempted to burn down my Merchiston caravan in reprisal, but fortunately our wonderfully PC authorities were convinced of my tales of immigrant woe, and now have the said mobile home under 24-hour protection. As a result, I continue my activities with the grace of the Government, footballing authorities and the Scottish media, taking full advantage of the long-standing conspiracy against HoMoFC.

It’s an exceptionally tough job, but somebody has to do it.

I suppose the moral of this story is that for every rule there has to be an exception.


*Scottish Indigenous Maroon Persons, Sadly Of Nonce Sexuality.

[Beefster]

HIV is already stigmatised enough without people being taken to court. There are two (or more :greengrin) people involve in having sex - not just one - the other person, male or female, could (and probably should) insist using a condom.

Surely this is only applicable if the other party is in full possession of the facts? They can't make a proper judgement if they haven't been informed that the other punter has HIV.

[Jamesie]

Now at least two successful convictions in Scotland :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6338777.stm