Six Premier League stars tested for HIV

[Woody1985]

Not the best.

Some dirty who hangs around with some prem footballers may have given them the virus.

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=six-premier-league-stars-given-hiv-alert-by-same-girl%26method=full%26objectid=21513252%26siteid=93 463-name_page.html

If the woman's boyfriend knew he should be locked up for life IMO.

[Betty Boop]

Not the best.

Some dirty who hangs around with some prem footballers may have given them the virus.

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=six-premier-league-stars-given-hiv-alert-by-same-girl%26method=full%26objectid=21513252%26siteid=93 463-name_page.html

If the woman's boyfriend knew he should be locked up for life IMO.

Maybe they should have put something on the end of it then! :rolleyes:

[Woody1985]

Maybe they should have put something on the end of it then! :rolleyes:

You're right.

[Monts]

Maybe they should have put something on the end of it then! :rolleyes:

Maybe they did :rolleyes:

[Betty Boop]

Maybe they did :rolleyes:

Well they'll have nothing to worry about then. :greengrin

[Monts]

Well they'll have nothing to worry about then. :greengrin

If only everything was that clear cut...

[steakbake]

Not good. Still...

[ArabHibee]

If only everything was that clear cut...
I think it is that clear cut.

[I'm_cabbaged]

I think it is that clear cut.

Maybe it was. :confused:

[Monts]

I think it is that clear cut.

Are you saying condoms are 100% effective? :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

So..... no possibility that one of the players could have been positive in the first place, then?

Nah, thought not.:rolleyes:

[Woody1985]

So..... no possibility that one of the players could have been positive in the first place, then?

Nah, thought not.:rolleyes:

Why would you think that?

It said she found out that her BF had it and was subsequently tested. She was with him and split up, presumably before she went with the players given that it sounded like the BF was quite pally with them.

Still **** for everyone involved.

The thing about this is that it could be her BF had it beforehand, went with all 6 who have then went on to go with another 5 each. Every chance if there's just loads of people mixing like that. **** me there's probably a few at least.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why would you think that?

It said she found out that her BF had it and was subsequently tested. She was with him and split up, presumably before she went with the players given that it sounded like the BF was quite pally with them.

Still **** for everyone involved.

The thing about this is that it could be her BF had it beforehand, went with all 6 who have then went on to go with another 5 each. Every chance if there's just loads of people mixing like that.

What I'm getting at is that it is entirely possible, and the paper has taken the slant of "durty skank and poor footballers". Any legal action by them would have to fail because of the amount of doubt. I mean, footballers and sexual chastity..... :rolleyes:

As an aside, I abhor the idea that those with HIV might be tried for spreading the condition. I don't hear any calls for those with swine flu to be prosecuted for spreading it.

[steakbake]

Why would you think that?

It said she found out that her BF had it and was subsequently tested. She was with him and split up, presumably before she went with the players given that it sounded like the BF was quite pally with them.

Still **** for everyone involved.

The thing about this is that it could be her BF had it beforehand, went with all 6 who have then went on to go with another 5 each. Every chance if there's just loads of people mixing like that. **** me there's probably a few at least.

Think the point he's making is that given the apparent promiscuous behaviour, its possible that one of the players had it already.

I reckon the true level of HIV is much much higher than statistics say.

[Woody1985]

What I'm getting at is that it is entirely possible, and the paper has taken the slant of "durty skank and poor footballers". Any legal action by them would have to fail because of the amount of doubt. I mean, footballers and sexual chastity..... :rolleyes:

As an aside, I abhor the idea that those with HIV might be tried for spreading the condition. I don't hear any calls for those with swine flu to be prosecuted for spreading it.

I agree the papers will take the slutty girl approach but no one on here was saying that it was all the girls fault. Even if she does get about.

Why!!! Spreading the flu and having sex with someone in the full knowledge you have HIV are two different kettles of fish and to even try and compare them is ridiculous. I can't even think of a word to express how ridiculously stupid that is.

If someone knew they had something like that and gave it to me I would ****ing take justice myself.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why!!! Spreading the flu and having sex with someone in the full knowledge you have HIV are two different kettles of fish and to even try and compare them is ridiculous. I can't even think of a word to express how ridiculously stupid that is.

If someone knew they had something like that and gave it to me I would ****ing take justice myself.

How are they different?

Someone who KNOWS they have flu sneezes on you. Exactly the same thing. Irresponsible behaviour, sure, but not criminal.

Would you take action for that?

[Woody1985]

How are they different?

Someone who KNOWS they have flu sneezes on you. Exactly the same thing. Irresponsible behaviour, sure, but not criminal.

Would you take action for that?

How are they not! I can't believe I even need to argue a point on this.


Someone who gives you an incurable disease (unless caught extremely early IIRC but could be wrong there).
Practically ruins you love life if you want to be in a long term relationship and have kids without having to ***** in a cup and have some scientist 'wash' it for you. That's if someone even wants to be involved with you.
Going to die much earlier.
The social stigma you WILL face for the rest of your life.
The pain and suffering towards the end of your life.
Family breakdown assuming you don't have a strong family.
Mental breakdown with the fact that you'll never be 'normal' again.
Yes, there is a possibility that people will die from the flu. However, we have treatments, preventative drugs, personal hygience, hankies etc, an immune system that prevents around 99.7% or thereabouts of the population dying from it.

To suggest they are the same is beyond belief. I genuinely hope you never catch it / don't have it. Makes me sick.

[CropleyWasGod]

I have been involved with HIV charities and self help groups for over 15 years. The double standards employed when dealing with those who spread the virus, intentionally or not, have long been a source of anger and frustration for those who have it.

I thought those views were beginning to change with the advent of new therapies and longer, more fulfilled lives. Maybe not.

I have to say that your views on what it is to live with HIV are some years out of date.

[Woody1985]

How are they different?

Someone who KNOWS they have flu sneezes on you. Exactly the same thing. Irresponsible behaviour, sure, but not criminal.

Would you take action for that?

I think you're also wrong on this part.

http://www.avert.org/criminal-transmission.htm

[CropleyWasGod]

I think you're also wrong on this part.

http://www.avert.org/criminal-transmission.htm

Sorry, my post was badly worded. Criminal in the eyes of the law it may be; my view is that it shouldn't be.

[Woody1985]

I have been involved with HIV charities and self help groups for over 15 years. The double standards employed when dealing with those who spread the virus, intentionally or not, have long been a source of anger and frustration for those who have it.

I thought those views were beginning to change with the advent of new therapies and longer, more fulfilled lives. Maybe not.

I have to say that your views on what it is to live with HIV are some years out of date.

I say that your view that willingly giving someone HIV or at least preventing them from making a choice on whether they have sex with you or not is utterly sick.

Smacks of, well **** it, I've got it so you're getting it to.

[Betty Boop]

I agree the papers will take the slutty girl approach but no one on here was saying that it was all the girls fault. Even if she does get about.

Why!!! Spreading the flu and having sex with someone in the full knowledge you have HIV are two different kettles of fish and to even try and compare them is ridiculous. I can't even think of a word to express how ridiculously stupid that is.

If someone knew they had something like that and gave it to me I would ****ing take justice myself.

:tsk tsk: You said------Some dirty who hangs around with some prem footballers may have given them the virus. :greengrin

[Woody1985]

:tsk tsk: You said------Some dirty who hangs around with some prem footballers may have given them the virus. :greengrin

She is certainly dirty. No question about it.

I also said may. The reason I am more inclined to sway to that side is because it was her BF that was the first one confirmed from what I understand.

It may be that he has contracted it elsewhere whilst they split up (or together when they were first together) and gave it to her. It may also be that a prem footballer or AN Other gave it to her and she only passed it to the BF when they got together. Hence the may.

My understanding of the timeline is:

Woman / BF
They split
Sleeping around.
Gets back with BF.
BF & woman confirmed.

In the above scenario it could be that prem footballer 1 gives it to her and then she gives it to another 5. There's certainly a safe sex message in here. One that Cropley obviously doesn't agree with. Probably doesn't agree with the use of condoms in Africa either.

Fair enough, I could have taken the approach that the prem footballer gave it to her but the facts are that only her and the BF are confirmed.

[CropleyWasGod]

There's certainly a safe sex message in here. One that Cropley obviously doesn't agree with. Probably doesn't agree with the use of condoms in Africa either.

Fair enough, I could have taken the approach that the prem footballer gave it to her but the facts are that only her and the BF are confirmed.

Did you read what i said about my experience? Given that, do you honestly think that I don't believe in safe sex?

[Betty Boop]

She is certainly dirty. No question about it.

I also said may. The reason I am more inclined to sway to that side is because it was her BF that was the first one confirmed from what I understand.

It may be that he has contracted it elsewhere whilst they split up (or together when they were first together) and gave it to her. It may also be that a prem footballer or AN Other gave it to her and she only passed it to the BF when they got together. Hence the may.

My understanding of the timeline is:

Woman / BF
They split
Sleeping around.
Gets back with BF.
BF & woman confirmed.

In the above scenario it could be that prem footballer 1 gives it to her and then she gives it to another 5. There's certainly a safe sex message in here. One that Cropley obviously doesn't agree with. Probably doesn't agree with the use of condoms in Africa either.

Fair enough, I could have taken the approach that the prem footballer gave it to her but the facts are that only her and the BF are confirmed.
As are the premiership footballers! :greengrin

[Woody1985]

I have been involved with HIV charities and self help groups for over 15 years.

Were you a recipient at these groups or were you helping people in this situation, or both, if you don't mind me asking?

The double standards employed when dealing with those who spread the virus, intentionally or not, have long been a source of anger and frustration for those who have it.

I hope this wasn't a personal dig and you mean in generally in society.

As for intentionally, if someone gives it to another person without warning them or tries to give it to them then they should be strung up.

Unintentionally, i.e a partner and you practice safe sex and something happens / you don't use a condom one night because you love each other / are drunk then that's life IMO. Both knew the risks, the first infected person made the other aware. Respect to both people in this scenario.

I thought those views were beginning to change with the advent of new therapies and longer, more fulfilled lives. Maybe not.

I think people's views are changing but it will never get to the stage where everyone is completely comfartable around people with HIV and will even make fun of them etc.

I have to say that your views on what it is to live with HIV are some years out of date.

Can you please explain what part of what I've said is out of date?

People will face stigma. Medicine is advancing but there is no cure.

If you are suggesting that my view about intentonally passing it on, as per my definitions above, is out of date I don't think it is. It's currently law.

Things like racism, homophobia etc have all been classed as out of date by society. However, intentionally giving someone an incurable disease shortening their life etc is certainly not and never should be. My view is that it is sick and indefensible.






Did you read what i said about my experience? Given that, do you honestly think that I don't believe in safe sex?

Yes, I did.

I assume you mean this post and have commented.

[Woody1985]

As are the premiership footballers! :greengrin

Only one person is reported to have had sex with more than one person here. I say that in jest.

Yes, you're correct, they are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, I did.

I assume you mean this post and have commented.

If you actually think that I don't believe in safe sex, you're hardly going to take my other views seriously. There's probably little merit in my continuing to argue my point.

[Woody1985]

If you actually think that I don't believe in safe sex, you're hardly going to take my other views seriously. There's probably little merit in my continuing to argue my point.

I will take them seriously and am interested in your thoughts given your involvement.

Apologies for the safe sex thing, on reflection, they are two separate issues. You have said that you don't think someone should be punished for not practicing it even if they have a disease. Those are two separate things and I skewed them whilst replying.

[CropleyWasGod]

I will take them seriously and am interested in your thoughts given your involvement.

Apologies for the safe sex thing, on reflection, they are two separate issues. You have said that you don't think someone should be punished for not practicing it even if they have a disease. Those are two separate things and I skewed them whilst replying.

Okay, apology accepted. But I will do the other thing another time, as I'm old and need my bed.

[Woody1985]

Okay, apology accepted. But I will do the other thing another time, as I'm old and need my bed.

Okay.

So do I. :greengrin

[Speedy]

I heard a rumour it might be Danielle Lloyd

[McHibby]

To be perfectly honest, surely ALL of the people involved should have known to wear condoms? FFS Just cos they're young and loaded it doesn't make them immune.

I do find it a bit shan that only the lassie is getting the blame - did she tie the footballers down and force herself upon them? All five of them?

[CropleyWasGod]

OkaY, Woody, a few random thoughts before I get myself to work.

Of course, deliberate passing of the virus is reprehensible and I probably do agree with the law as it stands. However, the kind of double standards I was talking about (and, btw, wasn't a dig at you; was a dig at society) is that... were the same situation replicated in the case of swine flu (ie I have it... I'm going to sneeze on you and try to give you it), I doubt whether there would be any legal consequences. In fact, as far as I am aware, HIV is the only virus that has seen people punished for passing it on.

Unintended passing of the virus, like you say, is life. Maybe I misinterpreted your original comment about the BF, and assumed you wanted him strung up when there was no evidence that he knew he had it or was purposely at it. Apologies if I did.

As for my comments about some of your views being out of date. About 5years ago a friend of mine said that she now felt she was "living with AIDS, rather than dying of it." That, for me, sums up the advances in treatments that there have been. It is now possible for someone to live a fairly "normal" life, with a fulfilling job and relationship.... and many people I know do, without feeling the need to disclose their status to employers and others.

That last point is quite important for me. You talk of stigma, and of course it's still there. However, there is only stigma when people KNOW that you have HIV/AIDS. Time was when one could almost tell who had the virus just by looking at them. That time has gone, thankfully. It is extremely likely that you, and most people, have someone with the virus in their work or social environment, without knowing it. There is no need to know. (other than in some obvious environments, such as the medical field.

In terms of stigma, IMO HIV should now be a bit like..... diabetes, maybe?....... it's a condition that people live with, that doesn't have to affect those around them.

Should should should... words that frustrate me. :greengrin

Got to work.... apologies for the randomness.

[Steve-O]

How are they different?

Someone who KNOWS they have flu sneezes on you. Exactly the same thing. Irresponsible behaviour, sure, but not criminal.

Would you take action for that?

Incredible statements to be honest.

How many people who have the flu come over and sneeze right in your face?

I'd also be slightly less concerned about catching the f-ing flu than I would HIV!!!

edit - I have now read the rest of the thread and your comments about flu now make more sense.

The thing is though, I think the scenario of someone deliberately trying to pass on the flu is very unlikely?

Here is a link to the current case over here - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/2520653/Fears-for-30-more-people-in-HIV-infection-case

[CropleyWasGod]

Incredible statements to be honest.

How many people who have the flu come over and sneeze right in your face?

I'd also be slightly less concerned about catching the f-ing flu than I would HIV!!!

edit - I have now read the rest of the thread and your comments about flu now make more sense.

The thing is though, I think the scenario of someone deliberately trying to pass on the flu is very unlikely?

Here is a link to the current case over here - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/2520653/Fears-for-30-more-people-in-HIV-infection-case

LOL, Steve.... I read your original post and was controlling my anger and planning my response!!! Now I have to find an outlet for that anger.

Of course, the scenario of passing on flu intentionally is unlikely. I was using it as an extreme case to highlight something which, for me, is unfair and discriminatory. As someone else said on another thread.... where would one stop? Chlamydia?

Also, on the sneezing thing..... there is a school of thought that thinks that Hepatitis C can be passed on that way. So, if some manky ******* does do that to you.... :jamboak:

Finally, your question as to my mental state. I'm a Hibby ffs. No question.

[Steve-O]

LOL, Steve.... I read your original post and was controlling my anger and planning my response!!! Now I have to find an outlet for that anger.

Of course, the scenario of passing on flu intentionally is unlikely. I was using it as an extreme case to highlight something which, for me, is unfair and discriminatory. As someone else said on another thread.... where would one stop? Chlamydia?

Also, on the sneezing thing..... there is a school of thought that thinks that Hepatitis C can be passed on that way. So, if some manky ******* does do that to you.... :jamboak:

Finally, your question as to my mental state. I'm a Hibby ffs.

Sorry about that, jumping the gun and missing the rest of the thread can be dangerous :greengrin

Well, while I still think that if someone with HIV and knows they have HIV has unprotected sex with someone is a criminal offence, you do raise an interesting point.

I think that curable and incurable could be somewhere to draw the line, no?

Still, one would think that if you had an STD that you would most likely find this out from the doctor, and therefore get your prescription and then be cured. What I'm saying it is unlikely that someone would KNOW they had chlamydia, and then pass it on.

[blackpoolhibs]

Anyone who has a terminal disease, in this case aids, and knowingly passes it on, deserves to be prosecuted, and must be prosecuted . Why would anyone knowingly do this?:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Anyone who has a terminal disease, in this case aids, and knowingly passes it on, deserves to be prosecuted, and must be prosecuted . Why would anyone knowingly do this?:confused:

Going to be really pedantic here. Apologies if I sound like I am patronising you, BH, but I am constantly surprised how many people don't know this.

AIDS isn't a disease. It's an immunity deficiency. It doesn't kill you. Pneumonia and other sorts of infections kill you.

As for your question.... many theories, probably all mental-health related. Revenge... man hating, woman hating, society hating... is the most common, I would think.

[Steve-O]

Going to be really pedantic here. Apologies if I sound like I am patronising you, BH, but I am constantly surprised how many people don't know this.

AIDS isn't a disease. It's an immunity deficiency. It doesn't kill you. Pneumonia and other sorts of infections kill you.

As for your question.... many theories, probably all mental-health related. Revenge... man hating, woman hating, society hating... is the most common, I would think.

Acquired immune deficiency syndrome or acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) is a disease of the human immune system caused by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS

Wikipedia you may say, but it has 3 references to back up that statement.

[Jamesie]

The most worrying line in that article is the last one:

"Hiv attacks the body's immune system but can be kept under control with drugs."

So if you weren't around to have the ***** scared into you in the 1980's you probably think its just like diabetes.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I heard a rumour it might be Danielle Lloyd

Source? :greengrin

Any rumours on who the footballers are?

[Calvin]

Source? :greengrin

Any rumours on who the footballers are?

Perhaps

Marcus Bent
Jermaine Defoe
Jamie O'Hara
Ryan Babel
Armand Traore

and if you count Teddy that makes 6.

[Woody1985]

OkaY, Woody, a few random thoughts before I get myself to work.

Of course, deliberate passing of the virus is reprehensible and I probably do agree with the law as it stands. However, the kind of double standards I was talking about (and, btw, wasn't a dig at you; was a dig at society) is that... were the same situation replicated in the case of swine flu (ie I have it... I'm going to sneeze on you and try to give you it), I doubt whether there would be any legal consequences. In fact, as far as I am aware, HIV is the only virus that has seen people punished for passing it on.

Unintended passing of the virus, like you say, is life. Maybe I misinterpreted your original comment about the BF, and assumed you wanted him strung up when there was no evidence that he knew he had it or was purposely at it. Apologies if I did.

As for my comments about some of your views being out of date. About 5years ago a friend of mine said that she now felt she was "living with AIDS, rather than dying of it." That, for me, sums up the advances in treatments that there have been. It is now possible for someone to live a fairly "normal" life, with a fulfilling job and relationship.... and many people I know do, without feeling the need to disclose their status to employers and others.

That last point is quite important for me. You talk of stigma, and of course it's still there. However, there is only stigma when people KNOW that you have HIV/AIDS. Time was when one could almost tell who had the virus just by looking at them. That time has gone, thankfully. It is extremely likely that you, and most people, have someone with the virus in their work or social environment, without knowing it. There is no need to know. (other than in some obvious environments, such as the medical field.

In terms of stigma, IMO HIV should now be a bit like..... diabetes, maybe?....... it's a condition that people live with, that doesn't have to affect those around them.

Should should should... words that frustrate me. :greengrin

Got to work.... apologies for the randomness.

Apologies for the delay in replying on this one.

I appreciate your points about passing on other things to people but there is no cure for HIV / AIDS which is where my main issue is.

I think someone has mentioned above it's highly unlikely that someone will intentionally try to pass that on. As per the other thread it's highly likely that you will survive. The same applies with other STIs.

I agree that people can live with it and do not need to disclose their status in everyday life but if they are going to have sex with someone, condom or not, they should disclose it IMO.

It was only my opinion that he should be strung up IF he knew that he had it before passing it on. As I mentioned previously it could have come from any number of routes. It could have been him that passed it to her without knowing and all the players are safe.