Hibs fan going to an Orange Hall!

[madhibby]

Today is the day of the Orange march in Glasgow and we are a Hibee family living in Glasgow.

My oldest lad is a keen Hibee altho most of his mates are Rangers fans.

Tonight he told me he was going out for a drink in Maryhill, a bit of an unusual venue for him as, if he doesn't drink locally, he usually goes into the City centre.

When his mates called I jokingly asked why they were slumming it in Maryhill. I was told they are going to the Orange Hall as the drink is cheap. I assume as today was the March day it will be full of flute playing "bigots" with a fair few renditions of favourites you usually hear at Ibrox.

Should I condem him once he gets back assuming he does get back after they find out he is a Hibby!

Or am I being a bigot by taking that view!?

[MSK]

Today is the day of the Orange march in Glasgow and we are a Hibee family living in Glasgow.

My oldest lad is a keen Hibee altho most of his mates are Rangers fans.

Tonight he told me he was going out for a drink in Maryhill, a bit of an unusual venue for him as, if he doesn't drink locally, he usually goes into the City centre.

When his mates called I jokingly asked why they were slumming it in Maryhill. I was told they are going to the Orange Hall as the drink is cheap. I assume as today was the March day it will be full of flute playing "bigots" with a fair few renditions of favourites you usually hear at Ibrox.

Should I condem him once he gets back assuming he does get back after they find out he is a Hibby!

Or am I being a bigot by taking that view!?Aye ..but ye can still gie him a skelp on the lug though :greengrin....ive drunk in lodges ..ive delivered beer tae lodges ..one of my uncles is in the lodge ...i couldnt care ..as long as it isnt rammed in my face ...their choice ..my choice ...

[--------]

Today is the day of the Orange march in Glasgow and we are a Hibee family living in Glasgow.

My oldest lad is a keen Hibee altho most of his mates are Rangers fans.

Tonight he told me he was going out for a drink in Maryhill, a bit of an unusual venue for him as, if he doesn't drink locally, he usually goes into the City centre.

When his mates called I jokingly asked why they were slumming it in Maryhill. I was told they are going to the Orange Hall as the drink is cheap. I assume as today was the March day it will be full of flute playing "bigots" with a fair few renditions of favourites you usually hear at Ibrox.

Should I condem him once he gets back assuming he does get back after they find out he is a Hibby!

Or am I being a bigot by taking that view!?


Making no comment on whether you're a bigot or not, but I've been to functions in an Orange Hall before now, and as happyhibbie says, as long as the bigotry isn't rammed in my face (and TBH it wasn't on any of the 3 occasions I was invited) I take folks as I find them.

The walks are next Saturday, I think, though. At least, there's been nothing in the Caldera today. Are they out in Glasgow today?

[Killiehibbie]

Been to a few functions in different orange halls. As long as you don't get the typical ibrox bigots next to you its not too bad.

[Darth Hibbie]

Making no comment on whether you're a bigot or not, but I've been to functions in an Orange Hall before now, and as happyhibbie says, as long as the bigotry isn't rammed in my face (and TBH it wasn't on any of the 3 occasions I was invited) I take folks as I find them.

The walks are next Saturday, I think, though. At least, there's been nothing in the Caldera today. Are they out in Glasgow today?

Yes Glasgow ones this weekend and the lanarkshire ones next weekend.

Back to the OP. In my (limited) experience the lodges themselves are not to bad they take there stuff seriously and try hard to put a positive slant on them. I know one lodge out here that has a blanket ban on all football colours. On the other hand pubs that have bands operate out of them can be really horrible places on marching OF weekends.

[--------]

Yes Glasgow ones this weekend and the lanarkshire ones next weekend.

Back to the OP. In my (limited) experience the lodges themselves are not to bad they take there stuff seriously and try hard to put a positive slant on them. I know one lodge out here that has a blanket ban on all football colours. On the other hand pubs that have bands operate out of them can be really horrible places on marching OF weekends.


Thta's my experience as well. The three occasions I've been (once not long after I arrived in Lanarkshire, and a couple of times since around Remembrance time) I had a very pleasant time and the one guy who tried to give me aggro (because of my profession, oddly enough, rather than my football allegiance!) was warned off very quickly by one of the office-bearers.

Mind you, I'd far rather stay in with a good book.... :devil:

[blaikie]

Today is the day of the Orange march in Glasgow and we are a Hibee family living in Glasgow.

My oldest lad is a keen Hibee altho most of his mates are Rangers fans.

Tonight he told me he was going out for a drink in Maryhill, a bit of an unusual venue for him as, if he doesn't drink locally, he usually goes into the City centre.

When his mates called I jokingly asked why they were slumming it in Maryhill. I was told they are going to the Orange Hall as the drink is cheap. I assume as today was the March day it will be full of flute playing "bigots" with a fair few renditions of favourites you usually hear at Ibrox.

Should I condem him once he gets back assuming he does get back after they find out he is a Hibby!

Or am I being a bigot by taking that view!?
Nothing wrong with going for a drink in the lodge (its cheap :cool2:) If he comes home wearing a sash and playing a flute totally different matter then :greengrin I normally don't mind them long as they march when I'm in my bed or on holiday. But being stuck in traffic for 20 minutes then being told to turn down my music by some jumped up copper :grr:

[Betty Boop]

Just back from Glasgow shopping, Rangers tops and Union jacks everywhere. :greengrin

[iwasthere1972]

Just back from Glasgow shopping, Rangers tops and Union jacks everywhere. :greengrin

You could have saved yourself money on travelling and bought them here. :greengrin :duck:

[Betty Boop]

You could have saved yourself money on travelling and bought them here. :greengrin :duck:
:greengrin

[New Corrie]

If you can look beyond the Jakeyness and the drunken Chavs in their football tops, then these marches can be a positive celebration of our Protestant heritage.

[Aaron]

I've been to a few places like that and also to the Masonic Lodge off Leith Walk.

Could not really care....only there for the drink and chat I don't even think about anything else as it is not an issue for me.

[madhibby]

My lad got back at around 2am Sunday morning.

He said the drink was cheap. There was somebody on the stage blasting out the usual Orange songs and the place was full of lads in Rangers tops who I assume had been out on the March earlier in the day. Credit to him, he said he didn't really enjoy the night although that is maybe because he knows I'm not that keen on the bigotry that these places seem to attract. I didn't ask him if he joined in the communal singing or stood for the Queen at the end!

I don't really have any strong religious convictions altho I am nominally Church of Scotland.

The Orange Order do however make me uneasy as whenever I speak to anybody who is a member they come out with this nonsense, in my view, that they protect my civil and religious freedoms from the tyranny of the Church of Rome harking back to Civil Wars of 17th century, or some time around then! Most of them seem to have deepseated dislike of the Roman Catholic church and its practices. You would have thought there would be more to unite them in their Christian beliefs but the Orange Order, I suppose, is a product of history, migration, working class vaues etc. I still feel its an anachronsim and it would be better if it faded and disappeared through time.

[ScapeGoat]

So are folks then saying its ok to drink in the Lodge cos its cheap?

Suprised no comment about lining the coffers to perpetuate the said institution...

[New Corrie]

So are folks then saying its ok to drink in the Lodge cos its cheap?

Suprised no comment about lining the coffers to perpetuate the said institution...


I would say it is okay to drink in the Lodge period, being a Sunday there will have been people "lining the coffers" in many churches throughout Scotland today "perpetuating institutions". In fact! there may have even been people on here lining the coffers of churches who discriminate against women and homosexuals...heaven forbid!

[Phil D. Rolls]

If you can look beyond the Jakeyness and the drunken Chavs in their football tops, then these marches can be a positive celebration of our Protestant heritage.

Yes, it's terrible that Calvinism is something to be ashamed of when it has contributed so much to what we believe today, individual freedom and the right to self-determination, are definitely better than having your thoughts decided for you as some creeds do.

Before anyone thinks I am on the wind-up, I want to admit to being a big believer in the work of Carl Rogers, who many credit with bringing us humanism. I think the fact that he was the son of a Calvinist minister must have had some influence on the views he developed.

Humanism, to me is at the foundation of much of post war counter culture, and laid the foundations for emancipation of many people who were deemed to be sub-human, ie having less rights than others: racial equality; sexual equality etc, all have foundations in a belief that all men are equal (stemming from the Calvinistic all men are equal before god).

Please feel free to correct these meanderings, they are just my thoughts and are not based on any deep studying of the subject.

[New Corrie]

Yes, it's terrible that Calvinism is something to be ashamed of when it has contributed so much to what we believe today, individual freedom and the right to self-determination, are definitely better than having your thoughts decided for you as some creeds do.

Before anyone thinks I am on the wind-up, I want to admit to being a big believer in the work of Carl Rogers, who many credit with bringing us humanism. I think the fact that he was the son of a Calvinist minister must have had some influence on the views he developed.

Humanism, to me is at the foundation of much of post war counter culture, and laid the foundations for emancipation of many people who were deemed to be sub-human, ie having less rights than others: racial equality; sexual equality etc, all have foundations in a belief that all men are equal (stemming from the Calvinistic all men are equal before god).

Please feel free to correct these meanderings, they are just my thoughts and are not based on any deep studying of the subject.

Sadly FR, if you went into a lodge in Ardrossan and wanted a discussion on Calvinism/reformers/Knox etc I think it would be met with vacant looks. I do reiterate that IMO, if you can look beyond the Jakeys with Rangers tops ther is othing wrong with the OO

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sadly FR, if you went into a lodge in Ardrossan and wanted a discussion on Calvinism/reformers/Knox etc I think it would be met with vacant looks. I do reiterate that IMO, if you can look beyond the Jakeys with Rangers tops ther is othing wrong with the OO

I know that on one hand, their leaders advocate tolerance, on the other hand many of their members are intolerant in the extreme. I think that they should consider taking a different tack given that their parades don't show them in the best of lights.

[jakki]

Dave and I were given tickets to some do in Edinburgh by his boss and most of the office staff was attending.

We duly arrived up to the nines when the door attendant said "Pss" to me. He had noticed that I was wearing a crucifix and asked me to kindly remove it. I hadn't realised that it was a lodge that we were going to and would not have worn a so low cut dress. I told him that there was no way that I was removing it but he suggested that I sling it round to my back and he would get a sticking plaster to keep it there.

We had a great night and the sticking plaster kept up to the business. Dear knows what would have happened it the plaster came unstuck! :thumbsup:

[Sir David Gray]

My lad got back at around 2am Sunday morning.

He said the drink was cheap. There was somebody on the stage blasting out the usual Orange songs and the place was full of lads in Rangers tops who I assume had been out on the March earlier in the day. Credit to him, he said he didn't really enjoy the night although that is maybe because he knows I'm not that keen on the bigotry that these places seem to attract. I didn't ask him if he joined in the communal singing or stood for the Queen at the end!

I don't really have any strong religious convictions altho I am nominally Church of Scotland.

The Orange Order do however make me uneasy as whenever I speak to anybody who is a member they come out with this nonsense, in my view, that they protect my civil and religious freedoms from the tyranny of the Church of Rome harking back to Civil Wars of 17th century, or some time around then! Most of them seem to have deepseated dislike of the Roman Catholic church and its practices. You would have thought there would be more to unite them in their Christian beliefs but the Orange Order, I suppose, is a product of history, migration, working class vaues etc. I still feel its an anachronsim and it would be better if it faded and disappeared through time.

Despite being CoS, I would personally have nothing at all to do with the Orange Order. I think its origins are legitimate enough but it has moved away significantly from those original values of celebrating the Reformation (which IMO was a good thing and I'll explain why later) and a lot of their get-togethers are now just excuses for Rangers supporting louts to have a wee sing song and engage in sectarian behaviour.

Many of the people who attach themselves to Orange Walks couldn't tell you the first thing about Christianity (of any kind), never mind give an explanation of the Reformation. They probably think John Knox used to be Walter Smith's assistant at Rangers.

All they are interested in is singing about "King Billy", shouting "eff the Pope" on a regular basis and banging their drums really loudly as they march past the local Chapel.

In saying that, I think it is important to express a Protestant identity, but only in the proper manner. Although they are essentially both Christian denominations, Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are very different.

Whilst there are clearly a lot of good Roman Catholics in the world, I think a lot of their practices are flawed and I'm glad that the Reformation came about.

Whilst he might not have as much power over people as he once had several centuries ago, I fundamentally disagree with the role of the Pope as some kind of divine figure on Earth and also with the view that he is infallible. As far as Protestants are concerned, only God is infallible.

I also disagree with the importance that Roman Catholicism places on the role of Mary. Whilst she is clearly a very important figure in all forms of Christianity, I don't believe in praying to her.

There is also the role of saints in the Roman Catholic church that does not really exist in most Reformed churches.

I disagree totally with the Roman Catholic practice of Confession, where a person speaks to their Priest, confesses that they have committed a sin and then the Priest absolves all their sins. Protestants believe that only God has the power to take away sin, through prayer.

There is also the dispute over how authoritative the Bible is. Whilst Protestants believe that the Bible is the only true word of God and that nothing else is required in order to receive salvation except for faith alone, Roman Catholics believe that tradition also plays a part in salvation and that it's just as important as the Bible.

Roman Catholic Bibles also have additional books in them that are not present in Protestant Bibles.

Then there is the fact that Priests are banned from marriage and women cannot be Priests. On the other hand, women can become Protestant ministers and ministers are also free to marry.

There are many things that are hugely different between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism but, although I strongly disagree with many of their practices, that does not excuse members of the Orange Order, or anyone else for that matter, who single out Roman Catholics for abuse.

[joe breezy]

The Orange Order marches stop at Chapels and bang their drums louder.
They seem to be more about intimidating Catholics than celebrating Protestant heritage in my opinion.

I was looking at the Orange Order web-site on Saturday. They admitted that they were having trouble attracting young memebers in Scotland.
Long may it continue.

Protestantism has moved on to humanism for most people.

If there was an Order to defend athiesm and against religion I'd maybe join that one.

[J-C]

I've been to a few places like that and also to the Masonic Lodge off Leith Walk.

Could not really care....only there for the drink and chat I don't even think about anything else as it is not an issue for me.


I don't think you should mention Masonic Lodges in connection with Orange ones, totally different mate.

[marinello59]

The Orange Order marches stop at Chapels and bang their drums louder.
They seem to be more about intimidating Catholics than celebrating Protestant heritage in my opinion.

I was looking at the Orange Order web-site on Saturday. They admitted that they were having trouble attracting young memebers in Scotland.
Long may it continue.

Protestantism has moved on to humanism for most people.

If there was an Order to defend athiesm and against religion I'd maybe join that one.

Would this new order be more about being against religion than defending atheism?:wink:

[New Corrie]

I don't think you should mention Masonic Lodges in connection with Orange ones, totally different mate.


Im am glad that you pointed that out, a lot of people are members of both certainly (predominantly in the West), but as you rightly say, they are totally different.

[Steve-O]

It is all a load of total and utter nonsense, IMO.

[Andy74]

If you can look beyond the Jakeyness and the drunken Chavs in their football tops, then these marches can be a positive celebration of our Protestant heritage.

OUR Protestant heritage?? :confused:

[JackRegan]

Im am glad that you pointed that out, a lot of people are members of both certainly (predominantly in the West), but as you rightly say, they are totally different.

aye but the degrees are pretty similar. :wink:

Plus the RBP have the square and compass on their apron and I understand the similarities of their colour degrees with that of higher (Above MM) degrees are almost identical.

[New Corrie]

aye but the degrees are pretty similar. :wink:

Plus the RBP have the square and compass on their apron and I understand the similarities of their colour degrees with that of higher (Above MM) degrees are almost identical.


Jack, I am not disputing that there are similarities with ritual etc and as I said there are plenty men who are members of both. Where the main difference lies is that with Freemasonry religion is not a barrier, nor is it allowed to be discussed within the Lodge.

[Chez]

OUR Protestant heritage?? :confused:

Not all Hibs supporters are catholics :wink:

[AndyM_1875]

aye but the degrees are pretty similar. :wink:

Plus the RBP have the square and compass on their apron and I understand the similarities of their colour degrees with that of higher (Above MM) degrees are almost identical.

They're a million miles apart Jack IMHO. Perhaps its how you see it in the West of Scotland bubble but I have members of my family that are Freemasons - admittedly mainly in England. You mention the Orange Order to them in the same breath and they'll react with disgust and contempt towards the OO - especially as some are of the lapsed kafflik persuasion.

Freemasonary is a fraternal organisation that does a lot of charitable work and has in the past had some strong links to the business community.
Any Freemason bringing OO politics/intolerance to his lodge would likely be thrown out on his ar5e cos you know what..... not all Freemasons are Presbyterian.

The Orange Order as far as I am concerned is an anachronistic throwback to the dark ages. The scenes in Glasgow at the weekend with the usual drunken abusive hangers on in their Rangers shellsuits does little to change my opinion.

[Betty Boop]

They're a million miles apart Jack IMHO. Perhaps its how you see it in the West of Scotland bubble but I have members of my family that are Freemasons - admittedly mainly in England. You mention the Orange Order to them in the same breath and they'll react with disgust and contempt towards the OO - especially as some are of the lapsed kafflik persuasion.

Freemasonary is a fraternal organisation that does a lot of charitable work and has in the past had some strong links to the business community.
Any Freemason bringing OO politics/intolerance to his lodge would likely be thrown out on his ar5e cos you know what..... not all Freemasons are Presbyterian.

The Orange Order as far as I am concerned is an anachronistic throwback to the dark ages. The scenes in Glasgow at the weekend with the usual drunken abusive hangers on in their Rangers shellsuits does little to change my opinion.
:agree: Some sights were on show that's for sure!

[Phil D. Rolls]

The Orange Order marches stop at Chapels and bang their drums louder.
They seem to be more about intimidating Catholics than celebrating Protestant heritage in my opinion.

I was looking at the Orange Order web-site on Saturday. They admitted that they were having trouble attracting young memebers in Scotland.
Long may it continue.

Protestantism has moved on to humanism for most people.

If there was an Order to defend athiesm and against religion I'd maybe join that one.

I would agree, and while I support a lot of their objections to Catholicism, I think that is too narrow a target. Given the narrowness of some Orangemen's mind that is saying something.

[Killiehibbie]

They're a million miles apart Jack IMHO. Perhaps its how you see it in the West of Scotland bubble but I have members of my family that are Freemasons - admittedly mainly in England. You mention the Orange Order to them in the same breath and they'll react with disgust and contempt towards the OO - especially as some are of the lapsed kafflik persuasion.

Freemasonary is a fraternal organisation that does a lot of charitable work and has in the past had some strong links to the business community.
Any Freemason bringing OO politics/intolerance to his lodge would likely be thrown out on his ar5e cos you know what..... not all Freemasons are Presbyterian.

The Orange Order as far as I am concerned is an anachronistic throwback to the dark ages. The scenes in Glasgow at the weekend with the usual drunken abusive hangers on in their Rangers shellsuits does little to change my opinion.

Freemasonary and the oo will always be linked in this country. Of course religion is no barrier to being a mason in other countries just look at Italy with all it's mafia members who are masons.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Freemasonary and the oo will always be linked in this country. Of course religion is no barrier to being a mason in other countries just look at Italy with all it's mafia members who are masons.

Italian free-masonry is seriously scary ****. What with Propaganda Due, Operation Gladio and all that jazz.

[Andy74]

Not all Hibs supporters are catholics :wink:

No, but pretty strange to use OUR Protestant heritage.

I for one don't have one.

And does Scotland? I suppose that depends when you want to begin your history and what exactly you think Scotland is.

[New Corrie]

No, but pretty strange to use OUR Protestant heritage.

I for one don't have one.

And does Scotland? I suppose that depends when you want to begin your history and what exactly you think Scotland is.

"Our" was a poor choice of word from me. A chance for the many Protestants in Scotland to celebrate their heritage was what I was trying to say.

[AndyM_1875]

Freemasonary and the oo will always be linked in this country. Of course religion is no barrier to being a mason in other countries just look at Italy with all it's mafia members who are masons.

I wouldn't say that too loudly around Kilwinning Number 1 if I were you.:wink:

The OO hardly follow the example of that well known Ayrshire Freemason who uttered the sentiment 'that man to man the world ower shall brothers be for all that'!!:dizzy:

[Killiehibbie]

I wouldn't say that too loudly around Kilwinning Number 1 if I were you.:wink:

The OO hardly follow the example of that well known Ayrshire Freemason who uttered the sentiment 'that man to man the world ower shall brothers be for all that'!!:dizzy:

Is it not lodge 0 in Kilwinning?

[New Corrie]

Is it not lodge 0 in Kilwinning?

It is indeed.....Lodge Mother Kilwinning...0

[J-C]

Unfortunately Freemasonary and OO are linked in the West of Scotland and as already stated Masonary goes back many hundreds of years and is linked to King Solomon. Individual religious beliefs is not an issue with Freemasonary, the belief in God is all, unlike the Orange Order whose lodges are there to commemorate sectarianism and hatred.

From the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland

Scotland Grand Orange Lodge
http://www.orangeorderscotland.com/picts/paragraph-line.jpg
The Orange order is the oldest and biggest Protestant fraternity in Scotland. We are an organisation of people bonded together to promote the great ideals of Protestantism and Liberty. Now in our third century, we were an established part of Scottish life and culture long before the formation of so many other organisations, like the Labour Party or the SNP.
And since the Orange Order originated in the British Isles, it was no surprise that the founders adopted the name of the British monarch most associated with the early development of freedom and democracy -- William III, Prince of Orange.
The triumph of William III is celebrated by Orangemen and women the world over with colourful parades. In Scotland the Order's annual Boyne Celebrations are this country's biggest expression of Protestant culture, heritage and freedom. No other voluntary organisation can match them for colour, music and crowd appeal. But there is far more to the Orange Order than the holding of annual celebrations as you will discover when you read on.
So.... welcome to our web site! We hope you will find it interesting and enlightening. We also hope you will visit us often, for this site will be regularly updated and renewed.
The Order's belief system is Christian, Protestant, patriotic and fraternal. These principles are set out formally in The Qualifications of an Orangeman, an impressive list of good intentions and high ideals. The purpose of the Orange Order can be summarised as:

To Maintain intact the Protestant Constitution and Christian heritage of the United Kingdom.

To cultivate Christian character, promote brotherly love and fellowship.

To expose and resist by all lawful means every system opposed to the mental, political and spiritual freedom of the individual.
The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends.




How to big yourselves up and make the things you do sound very goody two shoes eh! Bloody hypocrites.

[Betty Boop]

Unfortunately Freemasonary and OO are linked inj the West of Scotland, as been said Masonary goes back many hundreds of years and has been link to King Solomon. Individual religious beliefs is not an issue with Freemasonary, the belief in God is all, unlike the Orange Order whose lodges are there to commemorate sectarianism and hatred.

From the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland

Scotland Grand Orange Lodge
http://www.orangeorderscotland.com/picts/paragraph-line.jpg
The Orange order is the oldest and biggest Protestant fraternity in Scotland. We are an organisation of people bonded together to promote the great ideals of Protestantism and Liberty. Now in our third century, we were an established part of Scottish life and culture long before the formation of so many other organisations, like the Labour Party or the SNP.
And since the Orange Order originated in the British Isles, it was no surprise that the founders adopted the name of the British monarch most associated with the early development of freedom and democracy -- William III, Prince of Orange.
The triumph of William III is celebrated by Orangemen and women the world over with colourful parades. In Scotland the Order's annual Boyne Celebrations are this country's biggest expression of Protestant culture, heritage and freedom. No other voluntary organisation can match them for colour, music and crowd appeal. But there is far more to the Orange Order than the holding of annual celebrations as you will discover when you read on.
So.... welcome to our web site! We hope you will find it interesting and enlightening. We also hope you will visit us often, for this site will be regularly updated and renewed.
The Order's belief system is Christian, Protestant, patriotic and fraternal. These principles are set out formally in The Qualifications of an Orangeman, an impressive list of good intentions and high ideals. The purpose of the Orange Order can be summarised as:

To Maintain intact the Protestant Constitution and Christian heritage of the United Kingdom.

To cultivate Christian character, promote brotherly love and fellowship.

To expose and resist by all lawful means every system opposed to the mental, political and spiritual freedom of the individual.
The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends.




How to big yourselves up and make the things you do sound very goody two shoes eh! Bloody hypocrites.

Is that true? :confused:

[Darth Hibbie]

Is that true? :confused:

Apparently, thats the way it should be. Its just been evolved into something totally diferent

[Phil D. Rolls]

Unfortunately Freemasonary and OO are linked in the West of Scotland and as already stated Masonary goes back many hundreds of years and is linked to King Solomon. Individual religious beliefs is not an issue with Freemasonary, the belief in God is all, unlike the Orange Order whose lodges are there to commemorate sectarianism and hatred.

From the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland

Scotland Grand Orange Lodge
http://www.orangeorderscotland.com/picts/paragraph-line.jpg
The Orange order is the oldest and biggest Protestant fraternity in Scotland. We are an organisation of people bonded together to promote the great ideals of Protestantism and Liberty. Now in our third century, we were an established part of Scottish life and culture long before the formation of so many other organisations, like the Labour Party or the SNP.
And since the Orange Order originated in the British Isles, it was no surprise that the founders adopted the name of the British monarch most associated with the early development of freedom and democracy -- William III, Prince of Orange.
The triumph of William III is celebrated by Orangemen and women the world over with colourful parades. In Scotland the Order's annual Boyne Celebrations are this country's biggest expression of Protestant culture, heritage and freedom. No other voluntary organisation can match them for colour, music and crowd appeal. But there is far more to the Orange Order than the holding of annual celebrations as you will discover when you read on.
So.... welcome to our web site! We hope you will find it interesting and enlightening. We also hope you will visit us often, for this site will be regularly updated and renewed.
The Order's belief system is Christian, Protestant, patriotic and fraternal. These principles are set out formally in The Qualifications of an Orangeman, an impressive list of good intentions and high ideals. The purpose of the Orange Order can be summarised as:

To Maintain intact the Protestant Constitution and Christian heritage of the United Kingdom.

To cultivate Christian character, promote brotherly love and fellowship.

To expose and resist by all lawful means every system opposed to the mental, political and spiritual freedom of the individual.
The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends.




How to big yourselves up and make the things you do sound very goody two shoes eh! Bloody hypocrites.

Jeez, I never thought the day would come when I defended the Orangemen. Where does it say anything about hatred in the stuff you just quoted?

I am not denying that acts of hatred are associated with the Orange Lodge, but in fairness to them, their official site says nothing about intolerance towards catholics.

It would be worth bearing in mind the activities of the Spanish Inquisition (which no-one expects) and other zealots from other faiths before having a go at protestants.

I sometimes think people forget that the protestant faith is about escape from oppression from Rome. I understand the Vatican is a much more tolerant and progressive institution these days, and isn't so interested in wealth and oppression.

It wasn't always so, and I see no problem in people reminding themselves how their freedom was achieved. That doesn't justify the behaviour of people who have acted to keep catholics down in Ireland and Scotland, but the fundamental principles are worth remembering.

[Andy74]

"Our" was a poor choice of word from me. A chance for the many Protestants in Scotland to celebrate their heritage was what I was trying to say.

Interesting that.

Haven't you always been of the view that Hibs own Irish heritage is completley irrelevant and should not be encouraged or celebrated?

Seems a bit at odds with that.

[J-C]

Jeez, I never thought the day would come when I defended the Orangemen. Where does it say anything about hatred in the stuff you just quoted?

I am not denying that acts of hatred are associated with the Orange Lodge, but in fairness to them, their official site says nothing about intolerance towards catholics.

It would be worth bearing in mind the activities of the Spanish Inquisition (which no-one expects) and other zealots from other faiths before having a go at protestants.

I sometimes think people forget that the protestant faith is about escape from oppression from Rome. I understand the Vatican is a much more tolerant and progressive institution these days, and isn't so interested in wealth and oppression.

It wasn't always so, and I see no problem in people reminding themselves how their freedom was achieved. That doesn't justify the behaviour of people who have acted to keep catholics down in Ireland and Scotland, but the fundamental principles are worth remembering.


By showing that piece and giving the link, I was trying to point out the fact that the Orange Lodge sees themselves as good upstanding members of the community, caring and fraternal. Not the bigoted, catholic hating thugs that they really are, who brainwash their youngsters with the same sort of hatred as they have.

I don't think anyone would have expected their official site to spew forth hatred towards catholics and tell me, when was the Spanish Inquisition, oh yes 1478.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY

[Andy74]

Jeez, I never thought the day would come when I defended the Orangemen. Where does it say anything about hatred in the stuff you just quoted?

I am not denying that acts of hatred are associated with the Orange Lodge, but in fairness to them, their official site says nothing about intolerance towards catholics.

It would be worth bearing in mind the activities of the Spanish Inquisition (which no-one expects) and other zealots from other faiths before having a go at protestants.

I sometimes think people forget that the protestant faith is about escape from oppression from Rome. I understand the Vatican is a much more tolerant and progressive institution these days, and isn't so interested in wealth and oppression.

It wasn't always so, and I see no problem in people reminding themselves how their freedom was achieved. That doesn't justify the behaviour of people who have acted to keep catholics down in Ireland and Scotland, but the fundamental principles are worth remembering.

Upholding the 'protestant constitution'?

Not that we really have such a thing but there are still some constitutional laws which exclude Catholics.

Doesn't reaaly fit in with their other statements on respecting other faiths. Does that respect only go so far?

[--------]

By showing that piece and giving the link, I was trying to point out the fact that the Orange Lodge sees themselves as good upstanding members of the community, caring and fraternal. Not the bigoted, catholic hating thugs that they really are, who brainwash their youngsters with the same sort of hatred as they have.

I don't think anyone would have expected their official site to spew forth hatred towards catholics and tell me, when was the Spanish Inquisition, oh yes 1478.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY


It still exists. It's name's been changed - it's now called "The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith)" and I don't think it goes in for quite the same sort of hardware as it did in Papa Grego's day, but it's still there.

And FWIW, living in Lanarkshire I encounter just as many Catholic bigots in my daily life as I do Protestant ones....

....and I wouldn't put it past "Tam the Bam" Devine up in Motherwell Cathedral to have a rack and a few red-hot irons down in the basement. :wink:

[Killiehibbie]

It still exists. It's name's been changed - it's now called "The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith)" and I don't think it goes in for quite the same sort of hardware as it did in Papa Grego's day, but it's still there.



....and I wouldn't put it past "Tam the Bam" Devine up in Motherwell Cathedral to have a rack and a few red-hot irons down in the basement. :wink:

Are they not for pleasure rather than torture nowadays?

[--------]

Are they not for pleasure rather than torture nowadays?


I have absolutely no idea, TBH.

"This isn't just ANY Holy Office - this is an S & M Holy Office", you mean? :cool2:

[Killiehibbie]

I have absolutely no idea, TBH.

"This isn't just ANY Holy Office - this is an S & M Holy Office", you mean? :cool2:

I would never suggest such a thing.:wink:

[--------]

I would never suggest such a thing.:wink:



I'd CERTAINLY never suggest it to Tam the Bam - he's a nutter. :devil:

[Phil D. Rolls]

By showing that piece and giving the link, I was trying to point out the fact that the Orange Lodge sees themselves as good upstanding members of the community, caring and fraternal. Not the bigoted, catholic hating thugs that they really are, who brainwash their youngsters with the same sort of hatred as they have.

I don't think anyone would have expected their official site to spew forth hatred towards catholics and tell me, when was the Spanish Inquisition, oh yes 1478.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY

I can't really argue with the reality of what you're pointing out. What they say they are about, and what actually happens are two different things.

The Spanish Inquisition isn't something I know much about, but I was trying to put Protestantism in a historical context. I think the SI came about at the same time as the Reformation.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Upholding the 'protestant constitution'?

Not that we really have such a thing but there are still some constitutional laws which exclude Catholics.

Doesn't reaaly fit in with their other statements on respecting other faiths. Does that respect only go so far?

I think the point of all that stuff was that people who had chosen to go with the reformed church were under threat from Rome, and the country decided which way they wanted to go. Originally used to protect Protestants from persecution, these laws are now persecuting Catholics.

It has to be acknowledged though, that for the last 500 years or so, we have been a Protestant country. I believe the ethos was to protect that.

[--------]

I think the point of all that stuff was that people who had chosen to go with the reformed church were under threat from Rome, and the country decided which way they wanted to go. Originally used to protect Protestants from persecution, these laws are now persecuting Catholics.

It has to be acknowledged though, that for the last 500 years or so, we have been a Protestant country. I believe the ethos was to protect that.



Sorry, FR - but how exactly are these laws persecuting Catholics?

The only thing that's left is the stipulation regarding the Protestant religion of the monarch and the heir to the throne.

Who cares? Up the Republic! :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry, FR - but how exactly are these laws persecuting Catholics?

The only thing that's left is the stipulation regarding the Protestant religion of the monarch and the heir to the throne.

Who cares? Up the Republic! :rolleyes:

Well, that's the only one I could think of, but I wanted to acknowledge that there was a bit of inequity, just as I'm sure (well I'm not I'm surmising) that the King of Spain can't be a Protestant.

[J-C]

It still exists. It's name's been changed - it's now called "The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith)" and I don't think it goes in for quite the same sort of hardware as it did in Papa Grego's day, but it's still there.

And FWIW, living in Lanarkshire I encounter just as many Catholic bigots in my daily life as I do Protestant ones....

....and I wouldn't put it past "Tam the Bam" Devine up in Motherwell Cathedral to have a rack and a few red-hot irons down in the basement. :wink:


Youre quite right Doddie, they're both as bad as each other in their hatred ways, I just love the way they hide behind their aprons and little flutes as if it's all a bit of fun, try telling the young lad in NI a few weeks ago that was murdered because of his persuasion. :confused: