Ronnie Biggs

[Betty Boop]

Jack Straw overuled the parole board and blocked the release of Ronnie Biggs, despite the fact that he can't walk, talk or eat unaided. Surely time for him to be released?

[J-C]

Jack Straw overuled the parole board and blocked the release of Ronnie Biggs, despite the fact that he can't walk, talk or eat unaided. Surely time for him to be released?


It said on the radio that Bigg's had shown no remorse for any of his crimes, hence he wasn't allowed out.

[--------]

Can't say I have a whole lot of sympathy for him. He's alive, and provided for.

Just because he's an OLD villain doesn't mean he's not a villain.

[Dashing Bob S]

I personally feel that the real villains are the toffs of the British state who don't like the fact that a group of working-class lads rammed it up them.

All the Biggs incident shows is their petty and vindictive tyranny.

[--------]

I personally feel that the real villains are the toffs of the British state who don't like the fact that a group of working-class lads rammed it up them.

All the Biggs incident shows is their petty and vindictive tyranny.



You mean the train robbers, Bob? :cool2:

[Sir David Gray]

Can't say I have a whole lot of sympathy for him. He's alive, and provided for.

Just because he's an OLD villain doesn't mean he's not a villain.

Correct. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

He maybe didn't kill anyone but, as a result of the robbery, the train driver was struck by an iron bar and suffered severe injuries which he never fully recovered from.

Also, as has already been intimated, he has never expressed a single ounce of remorse for his part in that crime and has spent most of his time since the robbery, living the high life as a free man.

If he had accepted his sentence and stayed in prison, he would have been released many years ago. Instead, he chose to escape and emigrate. It's his own fault that he got jailed in the first place and it's his own fault that he is now being forced to serve the rest of his sentence whilst he is a frail, old man.

Just because he is now at death's door is no reason to release him as far as I'm concerned.

[Gatecrasher]

Correct. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

He maybe didn't kill anyone but, as a result of the robbery, the train driver was struck by an iron bar and suffered severe injuries which he never fully recovered from.

Also, as has already been intimated, he has never expressed a single ounce of remorse for his part in that crime and has spent most of his time since the robbery, living the high life as a free man.

If he had accepted his sentence and stayed in prison, he would have been released many years ago. Instead, he chose to escape and emigrate. It's his own fault that he got jailed in the first place and it's his own fault that he is now being forced to serve the rest of his sentence whilst he is a frail, old man.

Just because he is now at death's door is no reason to release him as far as I'm concerned.

my views exactly

[PC Stamp]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

[HibsMax]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!
:agree:

I think the sentences handed down were a little obscene when you stand them up alongside sentences for far more heinous crimes.

Some people don't believe in the death penalty...fair enough. But if a person doesn't deserve to die for killing someone, how can they deserve to be locked up for 30 years for stealing some $$$? This is not a debate on the death penalty but I think we need a little bit of balance in the system.

[Sir David Gray]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

Doesn't that say more about how pathetically lenient our sentences are for murder, rather than anything else though?

I am of the belief that if you commit pre-meditated murder, you should spend the rest of your days behind bars.

[Killiehibbie]

.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!


I was always under the impression that a prisoner had to show remorse to get parole, different being released at the end of a sentence. I know one of my mates had to write an essay on remorse and what it meant to him before being paroled.

[HibsMax]

Doesn't that say more about how pathetically lenient our sentences are for murder, rather than anything else though?

I am of the belief that if you commit pre-meditated murder, you should spend the rest of your days behind bars.
or strung up until you breath your last breath.......or is that too harsh? ;)

[PC Stamp]

Doesn't that say more about how pathetically lenient our sentences are for murder, rather than anything else though?

I am of the belief that if you commit pre-meditated murder, you should spend the rest of your days behind bars.

Of course it does. But that's what we have at present and why I'm saying that in the context of our present very poor sentencing system the decision of Jack Straw to keep someone who is pretty much a vegetable locked up at the tax payers expense is strange when others who should still be locked up at the tax payer's expense are roaming free.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not condoning what Biggs was involved in but many others have subsequently served far less of a sentence for worse crimes. At this stage I'd be basing my decision purely on the grounds of is he a danger to society now? The answer clearly is no.

[Jonnyboy]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

Pretty much my view too :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

At least he was a great train robber.

He could have been a pish one.

[Woody1985]

:agree:

I think the sentences handed down were a little obscene when you stand them up alongside sentences for far more heinous crimes.

Some people don't believe in the death penalty...fair enough. But if a person doesn't deserve to die for killing someone, how can they deserve to be locked up for 30 years for stealing some $$$? This is not a debate on the death penalty but I think we need a little bit of balance in the system.

I think this goes back to the Madoff thread from a few days ago where the legal system has always appeared to favour material goods and money over people.

[Betty Boop]

Apparently Jack Straw thinks that Biggs failed to attend rehabilitation courses, which would have prepared him for life outside prison. :rolleyes:

[Onceinawhile]

Correct. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

He maybe didn't kill anyone but, as a result of the robbery, the train driver was struck by an iron bar and suffered severe injuries which he never fully recovered from.

Also, as has already been intimated, he has never expressed a single ounce of remorse for his part in that crime and has spent most of his time since the robbery, living the high life as a free man.

If he had accepted his sentence and stayed in prison, he would have been released many years ago. Instead, he chose to escape and emigrate. It's his own fault that he got jailed in the first place and it's his own fault that he is now being forced to serve the rest of his sentence whilst he is a frail, old man.

Just because he is now at death's door is no reason to release him as far as I'm concerned.


Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

Oddly, I agree with both these posts

[--------]

Doesn't that say more about how pathetically lenient our sentences are for murder, rather than anything else though?

I am of the belief that if you commit pre-meditated murder, you should spend the rest of your days behind bars.

It was no fault of any of that gang that the train-driver didn't die in his cab there and then.

I suspect that he's receiving better treatment in prison than a lot of elderly people with the same illnesses receive outside.

But then they aren'y celebrities....



Apparently Jack Straw thinks that Biggs failed to attend rehabilitation courses, which would have prepared him for life outside prison. :rolleyes:

His own fault, then.

DBS: "I personally feel that the real villains are the toffs of the British state who don't like the fact that a group of working-class lads rammed it up them."

Bob, maybe you should learn to distinguish between the working-class and the criminal class - they're not the same.

That bunch of criminals didn't do an honest day's work in their lives.

The working-class lads in this case were the railway workers that Biggs and his mates roughed up. The train driver never worked again after what they did to him, and died a few years later, well before his time.

What this tells me is that in cases of violent crime we're far too lenient nowadays. 30 years seems to me to be a reasonable tariff for a major robbery in which an innocent man was seriously injured and very nearly killed. And qualification for release on licence should be contingent on the convict showing genuine remorse and demonstrating consistent good behaviour for the first 2/3 of his sentence.

All Biggs had to do to be released was go to the classes that every other con has to go to before early release. He's too BIG to do so - still thinks he can get away with it. Tough. He can serve another wee while until the next chance comes around, and if he's of the same mind then as he is now, he can serve a bit more.

[Betty Boop]

It was no fault of any of that gang that the train-driver didn't die in his cab there and then.

I suspect that he's receiving better treatment in prison than a lot of elderly people with the same illnesses receive outside.

But then they aren'y celebrities....




His own fault, then.

DBS: "I personally feel that the real villains are the toffs of the British state who don't like the fact that a group of working-class lads rammed it up them."

Bob, maybe you should learn to distinguish between the working-class and the criminal class - they're not the same.

That bunch of criminals didn't do an honest day's work in their lives.

The working-class lads in this case were the railway workers that Biggs and his mates roughed up. The train driver never worked again after what they did to him, and died a few years later, well before his time.

What this tells me is that in cases of violent crime we're far too lenient nowadays. 30 years seems to me to be a reasonable tariff for a major robbery in which an innocent man was seriously injured and very nearly killed. And qualification for release on licence should be contingent on the convict showing genuine remorse and demonstrating consistent good behaviour for the first 2/3 of his sentence.

All Biggs had to do to be released was go to the classes that every other con has to go to before early release. He's too BIG to do so - still thinks he can get away with it. Tough. He can serve another wee while until the next chance comes around, and if he's of the same mind then as he is now, he can serve a bit more.
I would imagine that could be quite tricky when you are attached to a drip, and unable to walk unaided, as well as communicating by the use of a language board. :greengrin

[poolman]

Correct. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

He maybe didn't kill anyone but, as a result of the robbery, the train driver was struck by an iron bar and suffered severe injuries which he never fully recovered from.

Also, as has already been intimated, he has never expressed a single ounce of remorse for his part in that crime and has spent most of his time since the robbery, living the high life as a free man.

If he had accepted his sentence and stayed in prison, he would have been released many years ago. Instead, he chose to escape and emigrate. It's his own fault that he got jailed in the first place and it's his own fault that he is now being forced to serve the rest of his sentence whilst he is a frail, old man.

Just because he is now at death's door is no reason to release him as far as I'm concerned.


:agree: I concur

He's spent the most of his sentence a free man

**** him, if he's that ill it probably wont matter wher he'll pop his clogs

[New Corrie]

We live in a country in which Terrorists were released from prison and turned into highly paid politicians. They didn't show remorse or condemn the atrocities that they were party to. If that is the Yardstick for British justice then in reality our prisons should be empty.

He should be released.

[lucky]

It was the correct decision to refuse him bale. He served less than two years when escaped.
Whilst Jack Mills the train driver never died on the night of the robbery he never worked again and died prematurely. Briggs is a career criminal who took part in the biggest robbery of its kind at the time he then made a high profile escape as such he should serve his time. The Only working class victim was Jack Mills

[Hibs Class]

:agree: I concur

He's spent the most of his sentence a free man

**** him, if he's that ill it probably wont matter wher he'll pop his clogs

He was not content to simply be free; when in Brazil he at times used the Britush media to stick two fingers up to the UK about how he was loving the life and couldn't be touched. Eventually he only returned because he was skint and couldn't afford to look after himself, and wanted the UK / NHS to look after him. Which is what is now happening, so he really doesn't have any grounds for complaint.

[erin-go-bragh87]

But apparantly he is a Hibby!!!

[--------]

He was not content to simply be free; when in Brazil he at times used the Britush media to stick two fingers up to the UK about how he was loving the life and couldn't be touched. Eventually he only returned because he was skint and couldn't afford to look after himself, and wanted the UK / NHS to look after him. Which is what is now happening, so he really doesn't have any grounds for complaint.


That really sums up my feelings.

He's a career criminal who was art and part of a major crime which led to the premature death of a train driver (an "ordinary working man"). He used his contacts in the London underworld (and the proceeds of the robbery) to escape after serving less than 2 years of his original sentence and spent the next 30 years laughing at the UK police and making nice little bonuses for himself from the tabloid press.

And then he got old and ill, and thought he could just come "home" and be looked after by the British NHS and Scocial Services - to which he hadn't contributed a penny.

IMO the problem here (if there is one) isn't that Biggs has been refused early release - he should never have been allowed back into the UK in the first place. He kept telling us how peachy life was in Brazil - he should have stayed there.

The problem is that criminals guilty of similar and worse crimes nowadays wouldn't receive 30-year sentences.

Biggs is not, never was the sort of "cheeky chappie, crim with a hart of gold" he was portrayed as being by the media. he was a thoroughly nasty peiece of work, and if he and his family are now now belatedly suffering a little discomfort and inconvenience as a consequence, fair enough.

Thirty years without the possibility of early release should be default for armed robbery where someone is seriously injured, IMO.

[Barman Stanton]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

Totally agree. 30 years for robbery is crazy!

[Wembley67]

Totally agree. 30 years for robbery is crazy!

Theres robbery and ROBBERY...the legal system is a shambles and people that break the law should be prepared to serve a long sentence. Fully justified.

And if someone gets life, it means life.

[--------]

Totally agree. 30 years for robbery is crazy!



Robbery with violence.

If Jack Mills had died, they'd all have been on a murder charge. It was no fault of whoever it was who hit him that he survived, for a few years, in pain, suffering seizures....

And in 1963, that could have meant the gallows.

[SlickShoes]

Despite escaping and fleeing to Brazil amongst other places, Biggs has now still served around 10 years of his original 30 year sentence. Remember that's a 30 year sentence for robbery in which he personally was a relatively minor player by all accounts!

Jeezuz, you can murder someone these days and be out after 15/20 years or so if you are good!

You can't disagree that he's a villain or that he's being well looked after .. but it's being done at the tax payer's expense! Get him to **** out of there and let his family look after him in his dotage I say!

How long a stretch would people expect to see handed down for a similar robbery today? The Brinks Mat masterminds got 25 years and that was armed robbery! Put into proper perspective it really just emphasises the joke that our current legal system is.

PS - very few criminals ever express remorse for their crime. Is Straw (another seemingly bumbling buffoon currently dragging the Labour Party down) seriously suggesting that all Biggs has to do is say sorry!!!

http://www.hibs.net/message/showthread.php?t=153838

NO one was hurt in this robbery either, it was recent and all but one of the suspects are in Jail in the UK now, they are all serving at least 15 year sentances and im sure if lee murray ever comes back to the UK he will get more than 15 years simply for the time he has spent evading the police.

[Barman Stanton]

Theres robbery and ROBBERY...the legal system is a shambles and people that break the law should be prepared to serve a long sentence. Fully justified.

And if someone gets life, it means life.

I fully agree, murder and rape etc should get life. But 30 years for a robbery? Nah, sorry thats just far to heavy for me.

[Darth Hibbie]

I fully agree, murder and rape etc should get life. But 30 years for a robbery? Nah, sorry thats just far to heavy for me.

Its only a matter of luck that it was not murder. It would appear that as a group they were prepared to kill if need be to obtain their goal therefore I think that 30 years is pretty fair. Does that include his punishment for escaping?

[Barman Stanton]

Its only a matter of luck that it was not murder. It would appear that as a group they were prepared to kill if need be to obtain their goal therefore I think that 30 years is pretty fair. Does that include his punishment for escaping?

I personally just dont think that robbery should ever hold the same punishment as murder. No way the 2 crimes should even have a similar sentance. Just my opinion though.

[ancient hibee]

We've been told ever since Ronnie Biggs came back that he was about to die-he seems to have hung on remarkably well-surely they weren't going for the sympathy vote then.

Incidentally there haven't been too any train robberies since-the deterrent factor maybe?

[gringojoe]

Cant do the time dont do the crime. If Biggs hadn't escaped and spent years on the run he would now be free to live out his life as pish soaked OAP.

[--------]

We've been told ever since Ronnie Biggs came back that he was about to die-he seems to have hung on remarkably well-surely they weren't going for the sympathy vote then.




You cynical old thing, you. :devil:

[Ed De Gramo]

FFS let him out....it's no like he's gonna commit a crime again...

Such a ****ed up society :agree:

[sleeping giant]

Stealing money from the establishment gets more jail time than murder and rape !!:bitchy:

[Steve-O]

Theres robbery and ROBBERY...the legal system is a shambles and people that break the law should be prepared to serve a long sentence. Fully justified.

And if someone gets life, it means life.

A life sentence is actually a LIFE sentence, it just doesn't necessarily mean life imprisonment :wink:

I thought the Home Secretary no longer had the power to intervene in cases like this (or any for that matter)? Doesn't send out a good message to have him completely undermine the Parole Board who deal with this type of thing every single day.

[J-C]

Biggs may not have been any mastermind behind this robbery but he was hired as a strong aarmed thug for it. The robbery itself was very brutal as spoken off before in other posts and I'm sure if need be someone would have killed if necessary.

Biggs escaped and fled to Brazil where he led the life of Reilly putting 2 fingers up to the British establishment.

He arrived back thinking he was a Robin Hood type hero suffering from ill health and he would be out within a couple of years. Why?

He has a jail sentence to complete, whether ill or not he committed a serious crime and has to do his time.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Biggs spent his whole life laughing at people who work and pay taxes, and wasn't shy of sticking the vikkies up at Britain. So why should we feel sorry for the likes of him.

I'm much more concerned for this lad with Aspergers who is under threat of deportation to the USA. Can't we send Biggs and say that it was him that tried to hack into the Pentagon computer? If the Yanks are stupid enough to hold a person on the Autistic spectrum responsible, they would surely have no problem believing that a man with dementia did it.

[marinello59]

With a criminal record like "No one is Innocent"* he deserves all he gets.:greengrin

*Original title , "Cosh the driver". What a loveable working class rogue he is.

[Hibrandenburg]

With a criminal record like "No one is Innocent"* he deserves all he gets.:greengrin

*Original title , "Cosh the driver". What a loveable working class rogue he is.

:agree:

Why do so many mix up "working class" with "criminal class"?

If justice be done, then he'll leave in a box.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree:

Why do so many mix up "working class" with "criminal class"?

If justice be done, then he'll leave in a box.

It was Biggs that described himself as working class. People like him haven't done a day's work in their lives.

[Darth Hibbie]

:agree:

Why do so many mix up "working class" with "criminal class"?

If justice be done, then he'll leave in a box.


It was Biggs that described himself as working class. People like him haven't done a day's work in their lives.

:agree: