Michael Jackson dead

[leither17]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8119951.stm

[leither17]

on sky news reports he has died rip

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Good god what a shock

[Hibby D]

He is dead :-(

[Wembley67]

When do the jokes start?

Inbox at work will be full by 9.30am I predict.

Talented man in his prime.

[blaikie]

Hopefully remembered for his music, and not the bad press he got in the last few years.

RIP






http://www.tmz.com/

[Hibby D]

Hopefully remembered for his music, and not the bad press he got in the last few years.

RIP






http://www.tmz.com/

:agree:

I feel honoured to have seen him live - one of the greatest musical geniuses in my lifetime - RIP

[Phil D. Rolls]

Looks like he is dead, and they are just waiting to tell the family. Uncomfirmed still, but surely no-one would get that wrong?

Was never a fan, but I recognise his contibution to music. A tragic life, and a tragic end. RIP

[Hibbyradge]

I really hope this isn't a publicity stunt.

Gosh, that sounds like I hope he has died, but I don't mean that.

So much for the masks, eh. :bitchy:

[IWasThere2016]

When do the jokes start?

Inbox at work will be full by 9.30am I predict.

Talented man in his prime.

Heart attack :agree: He'd had a few strokes in his day too! :greengrin

[Hibby D]

When do the jokes start?Inbox at work will be full by 9.30am I predict.

Talented man in his prime.

Not here please :wink:

[Sylar]

So soon before his massive concert stand in the O2 as well...

Dear God!

[Wembley67]

I'm sorry but the jokes will be coming thick and fast.

Yep he was a talented man in his prime but people can't forget what he did.

[Hibby D]

Keep this thread free from sick jokes - final warning.

Anyone else feels they need to be the stand up comedian tonight won't be around here tomorrow

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm sorry but the jokes will be coming thick and fast.

Yep he was a talented man in his prime but people can't forget what he did.

It's hardly the time to be talking about that. Whatever he "did" he was a human being, some of the stuff on here is the same as peeing on his grave.

[ArabHibee]

Apparently he's not dead, he's in a coma.

So Sky news are saying (via the LA Times)

:dunno:

[The_Todd]

I usually trust the BBC, and they're saying nothing about being dead other than an "unconfirmed report"...

[Wembley67]

It's hardly the time to be talking about that. Whatever he "did" he was a human being, some of the stuff on here is the same as peeing on his grave.

Maybe but you won't find a condolence thread for any other convicted paedophile will you...just because he entertained people in his hey day people are quick enough to dismiss the other "things".

[blaikie]

Wait to one of the big news agencies break the news, Like when Diana died it was initially thought that she just broke her arm. But the Press Association broke the news that she had died :cool2:

Reuters reporting hes dead now !
RIP

[James Connolly]

LA Times now confirmed he's deid. Sky News

[RmR]

A child molester dies and just because he could bang off a good tune it's a tragedy.

Can't wait until Gary Glitter pops his clogs, do you think we will see much of this RIP **** ?

[blaikie]

A child molester dies and just because he could bang off a good tune it's a tragedy.

Can't wait until Gary Glitter pops his clogs, do you think we will see much of this RIP **** ?
Was he ever actually found guilty :cool2:

[bingo70]

A child molester dies and just because he could bang off a good tune it's a tragedy.

Can't wait until Gary Glitter pops his clogs, do you think we will see much of this RIP **** ?

I actually agree with your sentiments, however Jackson was found innocent.

Plus just now when its not even clear if he's dead or not is probably not the right time to discuss the rights and wrongs of an RIP thread for him.

[RmR]

Was he ever actually found guilty :cool2:


a multi-millon pound legal team and several out of court settlements made sure that he was never convicted.

[SteveHFC]

R.I.P Michael :boo hoo:

[Steve-O]

It would appear to be definite now.

Quite a shock! :shocked:

Those people with tickets for those gigs must be pretty gutted!

[RmR]

http://www.latimes.com/
I actually agree with your sentiments, however Jackson was found innocent.

Plus just now when its not even clear if he's dead or not is probably not the right time to discuss the rights and wrongs of an RIP thread for him.

[ArabHibee]

a multi-millon pound legal team and several out of court settlements made sure that he was never convicted.
:top marks EXACTLY!!
Having lots of money certainly helps!

[Wembley67]

It would appear to be definite now.

Quite a shock! :shocked:

Those people with tickets for those gigs must be pretty gutted!

Hold on to them, they will be going for a small fortune in time to come.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Maybe but you won't find a condolence thread for any other convicted paedophile will you...just because he entertained people in his hey day people are quick enough to dismiss the other "things".

It's a humanistic thing for me, in that every life has value. Whatever the circumstances, I think there is something deeply disturbing about people who revel in the death of another human being - especially one they never met.

It just seems to me that a lot of people talk about death, and have no idea what it is.

Anyway that's all I'm saying.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:top marks EXACTLY!!
Having lots of money certainly helps!

It also means that people are more likely to chance it, and make false accusations in the hope of a pay off. We'll never know the truth.

[Steve-O]

Maybe but you won't find a condolence thread for any other convicted paedophile will you...just because he entertained people in his hey day people are quick enough to dismiss the other "things".

This comment assumes he was a convicted paedophile though - he wasn't.

[Wembley67]

It's a humanistic thing for me, in that every life has value. Whatever the circumstances, I think there is something deeply disturbing about people who revel in the death of another human being - especially one they never met.

It just seems to me that a lot of people talk about death, and have no idea what it is.

Anyway that's all I'm saying.

I am curious about your last sentence but ok, we'll leave it there.

[AJWisme]

I find it unbelievably sick that people are talking about how bad this man supposedly (never proven) was when he has just been pronounced (again apparently) dead. This board never ceases to amaze me at how horrible some people really are.:bitchy:

If true, RIP. Your music inspired millions of people, and will continue to do so long after you are gone, thank you.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I am curious about your last sentence but ok, we'll leave it there.

I'm a nurse.

[Wembley67]

This comment assumes he was a convicted paedophile though - he wasn't.

Apologies, I've just read that he wasn't.

[IWasThere2016]

This comment assumes he was a convicted paedophile though - he wasn't.

Odd that if innocent that he settled out of court .. more than once though .. IMHO

[ArabHibee]

It's a humanistic thing for me, in that every life has value. Whatever the circumstances, I think there is something deeply disturbing about people who revel in the death of another human being - especially one they never met.

It just seems to me that a lot of people talk about death, and have no idea what it is.

Anyway that's all I'm saying.

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

[Removed]

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

I shed a tear when Freddie died, now he was a real legend

[Amit]

R.I.P

Gutted

[RmR]

This comment assumes he was a convicted paedophile though - he wasn't.

And OJ Simpson has never murdered anyone. The mix of celebrity and race in the American legal system seems to lead to some pretty strange jury decisions.

[IWasThere2016]

I shed a tear when Freddie died, now he was a real legend

:agree: Flintstone = Legend!

[Steve-O]

And OJ Simpson has never murdered anyone. The mix of celebrity and race in the American legal system seems to lead to some pretty strange jury decisions.

Well, Simpson was found guilty in a civil court at least, and has since proven his character with the armed robbery and kidnapping conviction.

I was always torn between whether MJ was guilty or whether these kids and their parents were just looking to make a quick buck.

[The_Todd]

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.


Just because FR isn't standing ready to lynch the man, doesn't quite make him out to be devastated?

[ArabHibee]

Just because FR isn't standing ready to lynch the man, doesn't quite make him out to be devastated?

Who said I was talking about Filled Rolls? Please don't assume. I'm talking about these numptys that you will see, very soon, greeting their eyes out and wailing on the tv outside his house, hospital, neverland etc.

[MrRobot]

Lost a legend. RIP Michael.

[Sylar]

I'm not old enough to remember Jackson at the height of his pop prowess, but his undoubted skill as a musician and choreographer has transcended the decades, with his influence dominant in modern pop music.

Sadly, his off-stage antics and spiralling crash into reclusive behaviour will no-doubt create the very polarised divide, as is evident in this (and the 4 or 5 others on this board!) thread.

I'm certainly not "saddened" by his death, but not in any way "happy" with the news. It's certainly stunning news, and it's impact will be huge, but I don't know enough about him as a person or celebrity to have an opinion :confused:

[Steve-O]

Who said I was talking about Filled Rolls? Please don't assume. I'm talking about these numptys that you will see, very soon, greeting their eyes out and wailing on the tv outside his house, hospital, neverland etc.

There are a lot of mental Jackson fans, but if for example I was a massive fan, and had tickets for one of these upcoming gigs, I would be devastated!

However, neither of the above is true and I am not really sad or happy - I just recognise a massive news story when I see it.

It will be a 'where were you when you heard...' moment IMO.

[poolman]

He was a fantastic talent, but absolutely ****in howlin mad

[(((Fergus)))]

:top marks EXACTLY!!
Having lots of money certainly helps!

if the legal system is that corrupt what would a guilty verdict have proved?

you could equally argue that having lots of money and being a little bit naive makes you easy prey for scroungers.

anyway, i have my own suspicions about those who want to "string up the paedos". why are they so eager to distance themselves from such a crime?

[J-C]

Who said I was talking about Filled Rolls? Please don't assume. I'm talking about these numptys that you will see, very soon, greeting their eyes out and wailing on the tv outside his house, hospital, neverland etc.


Michael Jackson touched a lot of people all over the world for the past 40 years or so through his music and dancing, I was devestated when John lennon died, he was a hero of mine. Just because you've never met the man doesn't mean you cannot be deeply upset about his untimely death, have a wee bit respect for christ sake.

[HibsMax]

It is sad that he has died but the Michael Jackson that contributed so much to popular music died a long time ago in my opinion. :(

Interesting to see that there isn't a Farrah Fawcett dead thread yet and she died earlier today...

[Jonnyboy]

Michael Jackson touched a lot of people all over the world for the past 40 years or so through his music and dancing, I was devestated when John lennon died, he was a hero of mine. Just because you've never met the man doesn't mean you cannot be deeply upset about his untimely death, have a wee bit respect for christ sake.

Well said that man :top marks

[Removed]

It is sad that he has died but the Michael Jackson that contributed so much to popular music died a long time ago in my opinion. :(

Interesting to see that there isn't a Farrah Fawcett dead thread yet and she died earlier today...

Thought there was on the pm board earlier

[Hibby D]

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

I'm devastated at the news - However I'm not sure I'm deeply disturbed :no way:

Why shouldn't people be allowed to express their sadness without being thought of as some sort of fruit loop? If music or movies or royalty are important to an individual, who are you or I to say how that individual should 'not' deal with the news.

Just let people get on with mourning their loss - no harm is being done

[HibsMax]

Thought there was on the pm board earlier

There may have been to be fair but I didn't look there.

[GC]

It's a humanistic thing for me, in that every life has value. Whatever the circumstances, I think there is something deeply disturbing about people who revel in the death of another human being - especially one they never met.

It just seems to me that a lot of people talk about death, and have no idea what it is.

Anyway that's all I'm saying.

We all know what it is.

[HibsMax]

We all know what it is.

We do? Hmmmm. People think they know what death is but does anyone really know for sure? I'm not religious but I'm keeping my options open.

[ArabHibee]

Michael Jackson touched a lot of people all over the world for the past 40 years or so through his music and dancing, I was devestated when John lennon died, he was a hero of mine. Just because you've never met the man doesn't mean you cannot be deeply upset about his untimely death, have a wee bit respect for christ sake.

:faf:

Please don't tell me who to have and not have respect for.
I agree that he was a legend in his time, his music from that time was brilliant and I'll admit I have a couple of his albums. But his death will not have any bearing on my life, unlike other news stories that will be pushed to the side for this. And please don't get me started on Princess Diana! :grr:

[Riordans Boots]

I am gutted at this news :boo hoo: Hubby called me from his work at 11.15pm and this is like the 'Twin Towers' - where were you at the time kinda thing.

What a true Legend and Great Person ... and the usual ... press and papz gave the man nowt but stress and heartache for years .. infact all his short life. . . . . So sad.


RIP Michael

[Steve-O]

:faf:

Please don't tell me who to have and not have respect for.
I agree that he was a legend in his time, his music from that time was brilliant and I'll admit I have a couple of his albums. But his death will not have any bearing on my life, unlike other news stories that will be pushed to the side for this. And please don't get me started on Princess Diana! :grr:

Too late :wink:

[ArabHibee]

I'm devastated at the news - However I'm not sure I'm deeply disturbed :no way:

Why shouldn't people be allowed to express their sadness without being thought of as some sort of fruit loop? If music or movies or royalty are important to an individual, who are you or I to say how that individual should 'not' deal with the news.

Just let people get on with mourning their loss - no harm is being done

I never said that, I said "I find it deeply disturbing"

[GC]

We do? Hmmmm. People think they know what death is but does anyone really know for sure? I'm not religious but I'm keeping my options open.

The end mate.

I never knew of anything before I was born, nothing. there was nothing. that will be the same when I die.

Doesn't bother me to be honest, as I won't know anything about it.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

My thoughts on MJ, not really sad nor happy, it is a shock and like Stevo said, it will be one of those "huge" news moments as will the next few days.

[JE89]

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

Aye but some folk follow and spend so much time/money on celebs its like they do know them.

RIP MJ

Didn't like the guy, but his tunes are pretty awesome.

Probably the most views this thread has had since it changed from the Cheeseboard :greengrin

[Riordans Boots]

:faf:

Please don't tell me who to have and not have respect for.
I agree that he was a legend in his time, his music from that time was brilliant and I'll admit I have a couple of his albums. But his death will not have any bearing on my life, unlike other news stories that will be pushed to the side for this. And please don't get me started on Princess Diana! :grr:



Sorry ... but I actually find you very distasteful on this matter -

[J-C]

:faf:

Please don't tell me who to have and not have respect for.
I agree that he was a legend in his time, his music from that time was brilliant and I'll admit I have a couple of his albums. But his death will not have any bearing on my life, unlike other news stories that will be pushed to the side for this. And please don't get me started on Princess Diana! :grr:


You had to underline the first part of my post eh! how very clever(not)

Nobody cares if his death has a bearing on your life but at least give the guy some respect after his death. When someone of this magnitude passes away there will always be a huge amount of news about his death and his life, it's the way of the world. Remember, Elvis Pressley, John Lennon, JFK, Gandhi etc, these people's deaths will always make top news items because of their celebrity status.

[Hibby D]

I never said that, I said "I find it deeply disturbing"

"it" being the behaviour of some people? :dunno:

You actually said


I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

[buster99]

Sorry ... but I actually find you very distasteful on this matter -

I actually find your comment about comparing his death to the 9/11 attack distasteful,what an outrageous comment,but lets not go there.

[RmR]

if the legal system is that corrupt what would a guilty verdict have proved?

you could equally argue that having lots of money and being a little bit naive makes you easy prey for scroungers.

anyway, i have my own suspicions about those who want to "string up the paedos". why are they so eager to distance themselves from such a crime?


So why pay them off ? If you were assured of your innocence and had access to to the best legal counsel that money can buy why not clear your name. If you were accused falsely of a crime, in particular a very nasty crime,would you not relish proving the allegations wrong?

[sleeping giant]

I actually find your comment about comparing his death to the 9/11 attack distasteful,what an outrageous comment,but lets not go there.
Whats distasteful about it ?

The poster is comparing their feeling of shock when the news was heard !

Lets not go there though:yawn:

[Wotherspiniesta]

Devastated. Jacko was one of my idols growing up. In my opinion, the passing of an icon. My thought go to his 3 kids and the rest of his family. R.I.P Michael Jackson

[Steve-O]

Whats distasteful about it ?

The poster is comparing their feeling of shock when the news was heard !

Lets not go there though:yawn:

Exactly.

RiordansBoots was talking about it in the context of being a huge news story, not any other similarity.

[Hibby D]

I actually find your comment about comparing his death to the 9/11 attack distasteful,what an outrageous comment,but lets not go there.

To be fair RB was comparing it to those events in life where you say "where were you when...." and used the "Twin Towers" as an example. I'm sure even RB knows the two are incomparable :agree:

[buster99]

Whats distasteful about it ?

The poster is comparing their feeling of shock when the news was heard !

Lets not go there though:yawn:
To compare an event like 9/11 to a pop stars death is outrageous imo,especially given said pop stars 'credentials'.I and the most people will not consider it a moment of 'where were you when it happened' event such as 9/11.

[ArabHibee]

Sorry ... but I actually find you very distasteful on this matter -

What's distasteful about it?

Having an opinion about it and stating that Yeah, the guy was good in his time and will always be known as a music legend, but it's not gonna affect the way I live my life?

Or is it distasteful to compare it to the deaths of nearly 3000 people in a terrorist attack?

[ArabHibee]

To compare an event like 9/11 to a pop stars death is outrageous imo,especially given said pop stars 'credentials'.I and the most people will not consider it a moment of 'where were you when it happened' event such as 9/11.

:agree:
I remember where I was when I heard about 9/11
I remember where I was when I heard about the Hillsborough disaster
Unfortunately, I remember where I was when I heard about Diana.
I will now, no doubt, remember where I was when I heard about Michael Jackson.
Long live :hnet:

[SlickShoes]

Its terrible that hes dead and its just as terrible as anyone dying, im sure his family are suffering right now and thats a shame.

MJ as a musician died a long time ago, his music will live on forever and anything else surrounding him will remain forever as speculation.

Watching this circus on Sky News makes me realise why i never watch the channel, wheeling out any celebrity they can get on the phone to talk about it and not reporting a single other piece of news.

[Hibby D]

To compare an event like 9/11 to a pop stars death is outrageous imo,especially given said pop stars 'credentials'.I and the most people will not consider it a moment of 'where were you when it happened' event such as 9/11.

How can you speak on behalf of "most" people?? :confused:

I've had conversations about where I was when I heard Elvis had died (for those interested it was whilst lying in my bed listening to Radio Luxembourg :wink:)

I've had conversations about where I was when I heard of the death of John Lennon (on the bus going to work).

I've had conversations about where I was when I heard of the death of Diana (walking home from a very late night on the lash :greengrin)

It's called history

[Pretty Boy]

There aren't half some insensitive pr1cks on this board, one of the reasons my postings have become fewer and further between. A man with children and siblings has died FFS and people come on here to air tabaloid rumours and unproven accusations.

No doubt these same tabaloids will be calling him a 'legend' this morning as opposed to a weirdo only a couple of days ago. Do i believe he was a paeodophile? No, i think he had a strange relationship with children but i honestly think he had no idea how controversial his actions were as this was a man who was still partly a child inside.

His music may not have been totally to my taste but there is no doubting his talent and influence and i will remember him for that, not rumour mongering and unfounded allegations.

Those on here who feel the need to air their own personal hang ups and to taunt people who are upset by this need to grow up and respect other peoples feelings.

RIP.

[shamo9]

I'd imagine that the majority of musical artists out today have either been inspired or even imitated by Jackson.

I find it a bit sad that people overlook the fact that he's donated over 50,000,000 to charity.

He suffered a terrible childhood that revolved around work, money and endless publicity - he had to deal with constant pressure from the world for basically his whole life that resembled a endless circus... and yet he still managed to achieve greatness that is arguably unparalleled. RIP.

[Riordans Boots]

I actually find your comment about comparing his death to the 9/11 attack distasteful,what an outrageous comment,but lets not go there.

Lets just actually ...


Can I just say, that you don't mention your age and my point is ....


I will remember where I was and what I was doing, when I heard the news and I saw the awful events happen in front of my eyes:boo hoo:

(My mum and dad always said to us that they remember the horrific death of JFK in Dallas)

My point was, never to go back to the Towers and the horrific time in NY.

I bet you remember where you were and what you were doing .. that was my point mate.

[Steve-O]

To compare an event like 9/11 to a pop stars death is outrageous imo,especially given said pop stars 'credentials'.I and the most people will not consider it a moment of 'where were you when it happened' event such as 9/11.

Don't talk *****e.

[Wotherspiniesta]

There aren't half some insensitive pr1cks on this board, one of the reasons my postings have become fewer and further between. A man with children and siblings has died FFS and people come on here to air tabaloid rumours and unproven accusations.

No doubt these same tabaloids will be calling him a 'legend' this morning as opposed to a weirdo only a couple of days ago. Do i believe he was a paeodophile? No, i think he had a strange relationship with children but i honestly think he had no idea how controversial his actions were as this was a man who was still partly a child inside.

His music may not have been totally to my taste but there is no doubting his talent and influence and i will remember him for that, not rumour mongering and unfounded allegations.

Those on here who feel the need to air their own personal hang ups and to taunt people who are upset by this need to grow up and respect other peoples feelings.

RIP.

I had written out a massive piece, but you've put it a lot better than I ever could. Agree 100%. Some posters here need a serious reality check.

[JE89]

Its terrible that hes dead and its just as terrible as anyone dying, im sure his family are suffering right now and thats a shame.

MJ as a musician died a long time ago, his music will live on forever and anything else surrounding him will remain forever as speculation.

Watching this circus on Sky News makes me realise why i never watch the channel, wheeling out any celebrity they can get on the phone to talk about it and not reporting a single other piece of news.

BBC was the same. Had Uri Geller on earlier - what can any of these folk actually say when nobody (at the time) knows if he's alive/dead/in a coma. Though I bet viewing figures were through the roof. First time Iv watch BBC news 24 since I got sky about 6 years ago.

[HibeeSince82]

R.I.P Michael Jackson.

Gutted to hear as i was gonna get tickets aswell.

Still shocked

[Steve-O]

BBC was the same. Had Uri Geller on earlier - what can any of these folk actually say when nobody (at the time) knows if he's alive/dead/in a coma. Though I bet viewing figures were through the roof. First time Iv watch BBC news 24 since I got sky about 6 years ago.

What would you say if the newsreader just sat there telling you the story over and over again? They need to vary it a bit, and getting alternative viewpoints is the only way at this stage when there's not much to go on.

[Hibby D]

There aren't half some insensitive pr1cks on this board, one of the reasons my postings have become fewer and further between. A man with children and siblings has died FFS and people come on here to air tabaloid rumours and unproven accusations.

No doubt these same tabaloids will be calling him a 'legend' this morning as opposed to a weirdo only a couple of days ago. Do i believe he was a paeodophile? No, i think he had a strange relationship with children but i honestly think he had no idea how controversial his actions were as this was a man who was still partly a child inside.

His music may not have been totally to my taste but there is no doubting his talent and influence and i will remember him for that, not rumour mongering and unfounded allegations.

Those on here who feel the need to air their own personal hang ups and to taunt people who are upset by this need to grow up and respect other peoples feelings.

RIP.

:top marks

[ArabHibee]

What would you say if the newsreader just sat there telling you the story over and over again? They need to vary it a bit, and getting alternative viewpoints is the only way at this stage when there's not much to go on.

I think the point he's trying to make is maybe we could get some other news that's happening in the world whilst they actually get some factual information?

[ArabHibee]

I actually think he's faked his own death so that he can live the rest of his life in relative peace.

Isn't there a theory that him and LaToya are one and the same person - never seen together?

Just a thought.

[Riordans Boots]

I remember where I was when I heard about 9/11
I remember where I was when I heard about the Hillsborough disaster
Unfortunately, I remember where I was when I heard about Diana.
I will now, no doubt, remember where I was when I heard about Michael Jackson.
Long live :hnet:


Correct - That was excactly the point I was making ... and sincere apologies if I offened anyone. I was just giving an example in my lifelime as to the impact of where you were ..... when


Again .. sorry if I offended anyone on this. Hands held high on this for me boys and girls.
:agree:

I am just really sad and gutted actually ... you canny help how you feel

[Removed]

Why do we have to have one thread where it's tit for tat and :top marks where you agree and :grr: where you don't and people are going to end up falling out big style,

Dead easy solution admins - one thread for those who want to give it RIP and all that and one for those who want to rip the pish. Then you only look at the one where you agree.

I thought we were all entitled to point of view anyway :confused:

[SlickShoes]

What would you say if the newsreader just sat there telling you the story over and over again? They need to vary it a bit, and getting alternative viewpoints is the only way at this stage when there's not much to go on.

someone already replied with exactly what i typed out!

[Hibby D]

I actually think he's faked his own death so that he can live the rest of his life in relative peace.

Isn't there a theory that him and LaToya are one and the same person - never seen together?

Just a thought.

You post some nonsense :bitchy:

[Hibby D]

Why do we have to have one thread where it's tit for tat and :top marks where you agree and :grr: where you don't and people are going to end up falling out big style,

Dead easy solution admins - one thread for those who want to give it RIP and all that and one for those who want to rip the pish. Then you only look at the one where you agree.

I thought we were all entitled to point of view anyway :confused:

We are! Whose opinion has not been allowed to stand? :dunno:

[ArabHibee]

You post some nonsense :bitchy:

Cheers :thumbsup:

But remember in 10 years time when he's found on a desert island somewhere, you heard it first on here!

[SlickShoes]

Cheers :thumbsup:

But remember in 10 years time when he's found on a desert island somewhere, you heard it first on here!

hes on the fabled desert island with elvis, kurt cobain and jimi hendrix

[Removed]

We are! Whose opinion has not been allowed to stand? :dunno:

Sorry, but I thought you had deleted a few posts earlier on. Was it something that contravened board rules or just your own personal view?

[JE89]

What would you say if the newsreader just sat there telling you the story over and over again? They need to vary it a bit, and getting alternative viewpoints is the only way at this stage when there's not much to go on.

True. Though when folk are worried about a friend their really isn't much they can say or do. Obviously what you've said is right.


I think the point he's trying to make is maybe we could get some other news that's happening in the world whilst they actually get some factual information?

Not really to be honest, what other news is on the same scale?

[Pretty Boy]

Why do we have to have one thread where it's tit for tat and :top marks where you agree and :grr: where you don't and people are going to end up falling out big style,

Dead easy solution admins - one thread for those who want to give it RIP and all that and one for those who want to rip the pish. Then you only look at the one where you agree.

I thought we were all entitled to point of view anyway :confused:

I think there is a difference between having a point of view, which you are correct everyone is entitled to, and being downright hurtful and offensive to people who are affected or upset by this.

IMO the holy ground board has become a home for individuals who wish to be controversial for the sake of it with no actual point and frankly it's tiresome and a bit sad really.

I should add this isn't aimed at you as you have merely expressed an opinion.

[Hibby D]

Sorry, but I thought you had deleted a few posts earlier on. Was it something that contravened board rules or just your own personal view?

Well what do you think Billy?

[Steve-O]

I think the point he's trying to make is maybe we could get some other news that's happening in the world whilst they actually get some factual information?

If you are that keen to get other news, I am sure you could use the internet that you are on right now.

[Removed]

I think there is a difference between having a point of view, which you are correct everyone is entitled to, and being downright hurtful and offensive to people who are affected or upset by this.

IMO the holy ground board has become a home for individuals who wish to be controversial for the sake of it with no actual point and frankly it's tiresome and a bit sad really.

I should add this isn't aimed at you as you have merely expressed an opinion.

That's ok, I actually agree with you. Just thought two seperate threads might cool things a bit and admins would be justified in deleting posts then. Only my opinion too, I don't want to fall out with anyone about this.

[SlickShoes]

True. Though when folk are worried about a friend their really isn't much they can say or do. Obviously what you've said is right.



Not really to be honest, what other news is on the same scale?

Really?

You dont think there is anything else in the world newsworthy? There are many worse things going on than this.

Lets hope all the people trying to get a glimpse at the hospital dont just get in the way and stop other normal folk from getting treatment.

[J-C]

Uri Gellar just on talking about him, said during a hynotherapy session that he never abused anyone and that it repelled him, also Uri stated that MJ had said he had surgery done so he didn't have to look like his father and that he envied other kids who grew up in normal family lives, all very sad.

On another note, it's been rumoured that Jeff Goldblum the actor has died In NZ filming his latest film.

[JE89]

Really?

You dont think there is anything else in the world newsworthy? There are many worse things going on than this.

Lets hope all the people trying to get a glimpse at the hospital dont just get in the way and stop other normal folk from getting treatment.

At 01.07, what would you possibly put on your news station if you had one? :confused:

[shamo9]

Why do we have to have one thread where it's tit for tat and :top marks where you agree and :grr: where you don't and people are going to end up falling out big style,

Dead easy solution admins - one thread for those who want to give it RIP and all that and one for those who want to rip the pish. Then you only look at the one where you agree.

I thought we were all entitled to point of view anyway :confused:

Would you like me to start a thread ripping the pish out of you when you die? Didn't think so...

I can perfectly understand not liking him, but the man has family and friends (and millions of fans) that are currently grieving for the loss of a loved one. I don't understand why some people can't show at least a little restraint, the bare minimum any of us should expect.

At the end of the day three kids lost their father today, I don't see how anyone can separate that into points of view... Not an attack against any posters btw, just stating facts.

[Hibby D]

That's ok, I actually agree with you. Just thought two seperate threads might cool things a bit and admins would be justified in deleting posts then. Only my opinion too, I don't want to fall out with anyone about this.

Can you explain this? From where I'm sitting that reads as if I wasn't justified in deleting any posts. Can you tell me what you're basing that comment on? (considering you don't know what those posts said)

[Riordans Boots]

I actually think he's faked his own death so that he can live the rest of his life in relative peace.

Isn't there a theory that him and LaToya are one and the same person - never seen together?

Just a thought.


:no way:


And here's me apologising for my opinion - sorry luv, but you are 'not right by the way'

[McHibby]

I actually think he's faked his own death so that he can live the rest of his life in relative peace.

Isn't there a theory that him and LaToya are one and the same person - never seen together?

Just a thought.

:faf:

I had a similar thought earlier - now we'll never know about the LaToya theory.

On a serious note, it is quite a shock - and a massive news story, but I do agree with some of the other posters about the fact the news shows are now covering nothing else. As big as his influence on music is, he's just one person.

[Wotherspiniesta]

That's ok, I actually agree with you. Just thought two seperate threads might cool things a bit and admins would be justified in deleting posts then. Only my opinion too, I don't want to fall out with anyone about this.

Or they could just wait until everyone who wanted to post on the anti-michael jackson got their kicks and giggles from making jokes and accusations of a dead man and delete the whole thread?


FWIW mods, I think you're doing a good job.

[J-C]

Why do we have to have one thread where it's tit for tat and :top marks where you agree and :grr: where you don't and people are going to end up falling out big style,

Dead easy solution admins - one thread for those who want to give it RIP and all that and one for those who want to rip the pish. Then you only look at the one where you agree.

I thought we were all entitled to point of view anyway :confused:


You don't need a seperate thread, it's called personal message.

[Removed]

Well what do you think Billy?

I don't know, I never saw them, but I can see from your posts how you feel about MJ so you would rightly be hurt if something that offended you was posted and that could easily result in them being deleted as you have that power.

I was just trying to suggest a solution to keep everybody happy, I'm not trying to rock the boat.

[Steve-O]

Uri Gellar just on talking about him, said during a hynotherapy session that he never abused anyone and that it repelled him, also Uri stated that MJ had said he had surgery done so he didn't have to look like his father and that he envied other kids who grew up in normal family lives, all very sad.

On another note, it's been rumoured that Jeff Goldblum the actor has died In NZ filming his latest film.

Where you getting this?!!? :confused:

[J-C]

Where you getting this?!!? :confused:


http://screencrave.com/2009-06-25/report-jeff-goldblum-has-died/

just rumours mind.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/80s/2009/06/more-celeb-death-rumors-now-its-jeff-goldblum-and-harrison-ford.html

Harrison Ford also, allegedly.

[Steve-O]

At 01.07, what would you possibly put on your news station if you had one? :confused:

To be fair, it's not that time everywhere in the world :wink:

[Steve-O]

http://screencrave.com/2009-06-25/report-jeff-goldblum-has-died/

just rumours mind.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/80s/2009/06/more-celeb-death-rumors-now-its-jeff-goldblum-and-harrison-ford.html

Harrison Ford also, allegedly.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/2539113/Jeff-Goldblum-alive

Hoax...

[Hibby D]

I don't know, I never saw them, but I can see from your posts how you feel about MJ so you would rightly be hurt if something that offended you was posted and that could easily result in them being deleted as you have that power.
I was just trying to suggest a solution to keep everybody happy, I'm not trying to rock the boat.

I do indeed :greengrin

However, I deleted those threads because they were generally offensive (and not just to me as testified by the amount of reported posts we received).

My job around here isn't to delete opinons because I personally don't agree - the day I start doing that I'll hang up my power tools.

[Removed]

Can you explain this? From where I'm sitting that reads as if I wasn't justified in deleting any posts. Can you tell me what you're basing that comment on? (considering you don't know what those posts said)

Not what I meant as you are right I don't know. If you say that you would have taken the same action no matter who had died and your own personal view, then fine I respect that.

The "justification" comment in my head was where negative posts in a pro thread would, and should, be deleted without any need for any comment from an admin. The problem on this, any many other boards, is that there are such a wide range of personal views that it is nigh on impossible to find any thread where everyone agrees on the topic and the challenge is where to draw the line.

[Riordans Boots]

I don't know, I never saw them, but I can see from your posts how you feel about MJ so you would rightly be hurt if something that offended you was posted and that could easily result in them being deleted as you have that power.

I was just trying to suggest a solution to keep everybody happy, I'm not trying to rock the boat.


You are doing just that, so bahave then :greengrin

[Removed]

You are doing just that, so bahave then :greengrin

I'm not, honest but I can see folk falling out and that will be remembered and imo will influence posts in other threads which is to the detriment of the board. I wish I hadn't bothered now :greengrin

[Steve-O]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyJbIOZjS8

[Riordans Boots]

I'm not, honest but I can see folk falling out and that will be remembered and imo will influence posts in other threads which is to the detriment of the board. I wish I hadn't bothered now :greengrin


:tsk tsk: :greengrin

[JE89]

To be fair, it's not that time everywhere in the world :wink:

Ah, never even thought about that to be honest

[shamo9]

Ah, never even thought about that to be honest

Most likely because you were asleep at the time:wink:

[rainman]

Michael Jackson touched a lot of people all over the world for the past 40 years or so through his music and dancing, I was devestated when John lennon died, he was a hero of mine. Just because you've never met the man doesn't mean you cannot be deeply upset about his untimely death, have a wee bit respect for christ sake.

:agree:

He certainly did.

Creep.

[Landells]

I was working night shift at the time and it was a shock to hear it come on the radio :boo hoo:

[hibsbollah]

I'm devastated at the news - However I'm not sure I'm deeply disturbed :no way:

Why shouldn't people be allowed to express their sadness without being thought of as some sort of fruit loop? If music or movies or royalty are important to an individual, who are you or I to say how that individual should 'not' deal with the news.

Just let people get on with mourning their loss - no harm is being done

If its not acceptable to have people expressing their negative opinions about a dead person on a RIP thread, maybe you should make it explicit in the rules of the board?

Superb musician, Off the Wall was a brilliant album:agree: even if his music wasnt normally to my taste.

[Barney McGrew]

If its not acceptable to have people expressing their negative opinions about a dead person on a RIP thread, maybe you should make it explicit in the rules of the board?

Superb musician, Off the Wall was a brilliant album:agree: even if his music wasnt normally to my taste.

The posts that were deleted did contravene the rules of the board in their content.

Discussion is one thing, sick jokes are quite another.

[Hibby D]

If its not acceptable to have people expressing their negative opinions about a dead person on a RIP thread, maybe you should make it explicit in the rules of the board?

Superb musician, Off the Wall was a brilliant album:agree: even if his music wasnt normally to my taste.

Am I speaking Swahili??? :confused:

What has been said and will continue to be said (a la Shugster above) is that sick jokes will not be permitted to stand.

Having said that there's a fine line growing here between some people's opinion and a sick joke - but that's my "personal" opinion

[Brando7]

R.I.P

Gutted

:agree:

Gutted also

R.I.P Jacko :pray:

[J-C]

:agree:

He certainly did.

Creep.


Listen mate, stop highlighling my post to put over your lkittle point of view, he was never convicted of any misdemeanor, so not guilty as charged. If you have something creditable to add to this thread by all means do but don't use my post , highlight a piece of it for your own sick point of view.:grr:

[J-C]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyJbIOZjS8


Don't know what I'm suppose to look for here Steve, there's dozens of video's on the page.:confused:

[Steve-O]

Don't know what I'm suppose to look for here Steve, there's dozens of video's on the page.:confused:

It's Thriller, just clicked it and the link is correct...

[Captain Emerald]

It's Thriller, just clicked it and the link is correct...

We're presented with this message;

"This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions."

[Steve-O]

We're presented with this message;

"This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions."

Ah, stoopid UK! Guess it's something to do with that copyright / Youtube dispute in the UK.

It was just the full Thriller video.

[J-C]

It's Thriller, just clicked it and the link is correct...


I'll find it myself Steve, thanks for that anyway mate, great shout for his best ever video.:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE I think this one works.

[J-C]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE I think this one works.


Thanks Betty, saves me the bother:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

Thanks Betty, saves me the bother:greengrin

:greengrin

[Captain Emerald]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE I think this one works.

Does indeed. Superb video.

The Tynecastle location scenes are particularly scary.

[Hibs90]

I have to admit to liking to some of music and it's a shame to see him go, but some of you lot are a total joke. RIP

[Captain Emerald]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE I think this one works.

That one actually begins when they're in the cinema. The full 13 minute one is here:

Thriller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOj5H5W9zYo)

[J-C]

That one actually begins when they're in the cinema. The full 13 minute one is here:

Thriller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOj5H5W9zYo)


Same one mate.:greengrin

[Captain Emerald]

Same one mate.:greengrin

Yep - realised that straight away and changed the link :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Cheers :thumbsup:

But remember in 10 years time when he's found on a desert island somewhere, you heard it first on here!

Seek help.


If its not acceptable to have people expressing their negative opinions about a dead person on a RIP thread, maybe you should make it explicit in the rules of the board?

Superb musician, Off the Wall was a brilliant album:agree: even if his music wasnt normally to my taste.

I think some things are implicit in the rules of life.


I have to admit to liking to some of music and it's a shame to see him go, but some of you lot are a total joke. RIP

The only explanation I can see for some of the non-sense that was posted last night is that alcohol was a factor. It wasn't the time to be getting into petty arguments about who said what.

People are entitled to their opinion, and no-one says they should like Michael Jackson (wasn't mad on him myself). Some respect for life would have been nice to see, there are people who are reading this thread who have had to deal with loss, and I'm sure some of the smart alec remarks on here would hardly make them feel better.

[Betty Boop]

That one actually begins when they're in the cinema. The full 13 minute one is here:

Thriller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xs9OQHpwDE)
Cheers for that! :greengrin
One of my favourites http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgtWIx2zLtk&feature=related :boo hoo:

[hibsbollah]

The posts that were deleted did contravene the rules of the board in their content.

Discussion is one thing, sick jokes are quite another.

I'm not talking about the posts that were deleted in particular, i'm just making a general point. It might save lots of :grr: and:boo hoo:

[Hibs90]

The only explanation I can see for some of the non-sense that was posted last night is that alcohol was a factor. It wasn't the time to be getting into petty arguments about who said what.

People are entitled to their opinion, and no-one says they should like Michael Jackson (wasn't mad on him myself). Some respect for life would have been nice to see, there are people who are reading this thread who have had to deal with loss, and I'm sure some of the smart alec remarks on here would hardly make them feel better.

I know people are entitled to their opinion and I agree nobody has to like him if they don't want to, but a guy who has contributed so much to the music industry deserves a bit more respect, fair enough people might have bought into the allegations that some made, but nobody will ever know the truth and he was not found guilty.

[BravestHibs]

I think there's something deeply disturbing about people who are devastated by the death of a celebrity - especially one they have never met.

For once we agree on something.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Headline today: Wacko Jacko wont be backo.

[Tomsk]

I was working night shift at the time and it was a shock to hear it come on the radio :boo hoo:

Why? Was it turned off?

[Jay]

It also means that people are more likely to chance it, and make false accusations in the hope of a pay off. We'll never know the truth.


Never a truer word said FR :agree:

A huge music icon has passed no matter what anybody thought of him as a person. In my opinion he was a musical genius, pushing the boundaries. I enjoyed his music, the videos and the whole media circus that surrounded him obviously apart from the legal stuff.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I know people are entitled to their opinion and I agree nobody has to like him if they don't want to, but a guy who has contributed so much to the music industry deserves a bit more respect, fair enough people might have bought into the allegations that some made, but nobody will ever know the truth and he was not found guilty.

:agree:

[BravestHibs]

This is a genuine question.

Why do people who die automatically deserve respect? Everyone dies, it's part of life. I'm not specifically referring to Michael Jackson here but in general it seems that you can be the most horrible **** in the world while you're alive and it's somehow forgotten about as soon as you die. Why is that?

The outpouring of grief for these types of celebrity deaths make my toes curl. I was shocked when I heard granted, but not saddened as I didn't know him. And that's the thing that perplexes me, how can you feel genuine sadness for someone you've never met? And why are you somehow viewed as callous or cold when you don't?

[Wembley67]

This is a genuine question.

Why do people who die automatically deserve respect? Everyone dies, it's part of life. I'm not specifically referring to Michael Jackson here but in general it seems that you can be the most horrible ***** in the world while you're alive and it's somehow forgotten about as soon as you die. Why is that?

The outpouring of grief for these types of celebrity deaths make my toes curl. I was shocked when I heard granted, but not saddened as I didn't know him. And that's the thing that perplexes me, how can you feel genuine sadness for someone you've never met? And why are you somehow viewed as callous or cold when you don't?

Because society is so messed up people are afraid to express their real feelings incase of reprisal.

Sure everyone will disagree though.

[Sylar]

There has to be a balance between trampling on the dead and this public outcrying of love/sympathy/mourning yadda yadda.

I saw one girl being interviewed in LA, outside UCLA, and it was embarassing - she was probably in her mid-20's, and she was sobbing and howling "I don't know who to trust anymore - I just need to know..."

However, the insensitive smearing which will undoubtedly attach itself to his personal life is equally as cringeworthy.

[BravestHibs]

http://stereotypist.livejournal.com/131545.html

Pretty much sums it up.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Because society is so messed up people are afraid to express their real feelings incase of reprisal.

Sure everyone will disagree though.

I agree how difficult it is to say what you think in our society. Too many people are quick to make judgements without listening to what is being said. However,
I think respect for life and death has been a fundamental part of society since time began. If we lose sight of that then we really are messed up.

Watching the predictable scenes on the news this morning, with people wanting to be a part of this event is a sign of how messed up things are.

[BravestHibs]

I agree how difficult it is to say what you think in our society. Too many people are quick to make judgements without listening to what is being said. However,
I think respect for life and death has been a fundamental part of society since time began. If we lose sight of that then we really are messed up.

Watching the predictable scenes on the news this morning, with people wanting to be a part of this event is a sign of how messed up things are.

Respect for life is more important than respect for death in my view, and respect has to be earned. People who don't deserve respect in life due to having been a nasty for whatever reason shouldn't get any in death either, it just stands to reason.

[J-C]

Respect for life is more important than respect for death in my view, and respect has to be earned. People who don't deserve respect in life due to having been a nasty * for whatever reason shouldn't get any in death either, it just stands to reason.

Are you suggesting Michael Jackson was :confused:

If he wasn't then we should at least give him that respect which is due to anyone that is taken away from their loved ones at such a short notice.

MJ grew up without knowing childhood and had a father who he hated so much he had surgery to make himself look nothing like him. He lived in Neverland, big clue here, child that never grew up, pretty much sums him up.

[PeeJay]

This is a genuine question.

Why do people who die automatically deserve respect? Everyone dies, it's part of life. I'm not specifically referring to Michael Jackson here but in general it seems that you can be the most horrible ***** in the world while you're alive and it's somehow forgotten about as soon as you die. Why is that?

The outpouring of grief for these types of celebrity deaths make my toes curl. I was shocked when I heard granted, but not saddened as I didn't know him. And that's the thing that perplexes me, how can you feel genuine sadness for someone you've never met? And why are you somehow viewed as callous or cold when you don't?

I feel much the same way about many so-called 'celebrities' as you say - but for me Jackson was a truly talented singer and musician, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who made such music cannot be wholly bad (as some people on here seem to be suggesting). I can understand people grieving for someone who may have meant a great deal to them throughout their lives. I didn't know him personally either but his music meant a lot to me and for that I feel genuinely saddened by his passing so young. In many ways music was the only truth we knew about Jackson. Personally, I was much sadder and more distraught when Lennon was taken - but for the same reasons, his music - I didn't know him either.

As to death, you're right: no one can circumvent it. But I don't get your notion of not being able to feel anything for someone you've never met -I've never met Ali (a childhood boxing hero), yet when I saw him holding the Olympic torch in Atlanta I had tears in my eyes, I'm sure many people on here have their own examples.

There are people genuinely saddened by such events but - without doubt - an increasing part of our society just wants to be part of some national grieving event: so I can appreciate the cynicism of some posters fed up with what they feel to be dishonest emotions.

[lyonhibs]

Obviously there will be a outbreak of hysteria at this news, leading to all kinds of slightly "Off the Wall" (terrible pun) fans/Yanks giving gushing eulogies that are dubious in the extreme, but here's my tuppence worth.

The man never had a normal childhood - he was in the media spotlight, driven by a obsessed father from the age of 8/9. All that "playing in the park with our mates" stuff that we all remember, he never had. HAve his detractors ever actually listend to his music - right from Jackson 5 (aka Michael plus 4 others) like "ABC" right through to the vast majority of his solo stuff "Beat it" "Billie Jean (my favourite tune to get me - ahem - out of my seat when pished EVER) and "Thriller" to name but 3. Absolutely incredible. A live entertainer who absolutely captivated audiences for an entire decade. More rhythym and talent in his pinkie finger that 90% of solo acts these days. An inspiration to god knows how many artists.

Can you look back on the history of Pop music and avoid respecting Michael Jackson?? No, it's simply not possible.

It's so easy to go down the "oh aye, he was definitely a paedo" route, but was he ever proven guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty, no?? I don't doubt that with his "Neverland" RAnch etc he had a slightly weird rapport with kids, but isn't it intersting that a) all his accusers were happy to take his 30 pieces of silver instead of pursuing the case to its conclusion in the courts, which would have been, logically, the action of a complainant who was convinced they were in the right and b) after the 1st complaint launched, a absolute deluge followed, most of them settled "out of court".

It's like John Leslie raping woman, one vague story and suddenly it's the favourite bandwagon for any random media whore.

A musical legend, who was frequently misrepresented in the media (Martin Brashir in particular wants a kick in the baws for his "creative editing" of his interview with MJ a few years back) Clearly I never knew him apart from his incredible music, but the man is, and is likely to forever remain The King of Pop.

I repeat, a LEGEND :agree:

[Betty Boop]

I feel much the same way about many so-called 'celebrities' as you say - but for me Jackson was a truly talented singer and musician, and as far as I'm concerned anyone who made such music cannot be wholly bad (as some people on here seem to be suggesting). I can understand people grieving for someone who may have meant a great deal to them throughout their lives. I didn't know him personally either but his music meant a lot to me and for that I feel genuinely saddened by his passing so young. In many ways music was the only truth we knew about Jackson. Personally, I was much sadder and more distraught when Lennon was taken - but for the same reasons, his music - I didn't know him either.

As to death, you're right: no one can circumvent it. But I don't get your notion of not being able to feel anything for someone you've never met -I've never met Ali (a childhood boxing hero), yet when I saw him holding the Olympic torch in Atlanta I had tears in my eyes, I'm sure many people on here have their own examples.

There are people genuinely saddened by such events but - without doubt - an increasing part of our society just wants to be part of some national grieving event: so I can appreciate the cynicism of some posters fed up with what they feel to be dishonest emotions.
:top marks Great post Peejay!

[J-C]

Obviously there will be a outbreak of hysteria at this news, leading to all kinds of slightly "Off the Wall" (terrible pun) fans/Yanks giving gushing eulogies that are dubious in the extreme, but here's my tuppence worth.

The man never had a normal childhood - he was in the media spotlight, driven by a obsessed father from the age of 8/9. All that "playing in the park with our mates" stuff that we all remember, he never had. HAve his detractors ever actually listend to his music - right from Jackson 5 (aka Michael plus 4 others) like "ABC" right through to the vast majority of his solo stuff "Beat it" "Billie Jean (my favourite tune to get me - ahem - out of my seat when pished EVER) and "Thriller" to name but 3. Absolutely incredible. A live entertainer who absolutely captivated audiences for an entire decade. More rhythym and talent in his pinkie finger that 90% of solo acts these days. An inspiration to god knows how many artists.

Can you look back on the history of Pop music and avoid respecting Michael Jackson?? No, it's simply not possible.

It's so easy to go down the "oh aye, he was definitely a paedo" route, but was he ever proven guilty in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty, no?? I don't doubt that with his "Neverland" RAnch etc he had a slightly weird rapport with kids, but isn't it intersting that a) all his accusers were happy to take his 30 pieces of silver instead of pursuing the case to its conclusion in the courts, which would have been, logically, the action of a complainant who was convinced they were in the right and b) after the 1st complaint launched, a absolute deluge followed, most of them settled "out of court".

It's like John Leslie raping woman, one vague story and suddenly it's the favourite bandwagon for any random media whore.

A musical legend, who was frequently misrepresented in the media (Martin Brashir in particular wants a kick in the baws for his "creative editing" of his interview with MJ a few years back) Clearly I never knew him apart from his incredible music, but the man is, and is likely to forever remain The King of Pop.

I repeat, a LEGEND :agree:


Fantastic post, you've summed up everything I've been trying to say in one go. :top marks

[hibs1875aye]

I wonder if anyone else would have gotten away with hanging their child over a balcony in front of the whole world and get away with it .... doubtful :rolleyes:

His early music was renowned and the comments on this I think are spot on. Thereafter, he declined. He was a bit mental and to be honest, his passing means a lot less to a lot more people now, than it would have in the peak of his 80's fame.

[Steve-O]

This is a genuine question.

Why do people who die automatically deserve respect? Everyone dies, it's part of life. I'm not specifically referring to Michael Jackson here but in general it seems that you can be the most horrible **** in the world while you're alive and it's somehow forgotten about as soon as you die. Why is that?

The outpouring of grief for these types of celebrity deaths make my toes curl. I was shocked when I heard granted, but not saddened as I didn't know him. And that's the thing that perplexes me, how can you feel genuine sadness for someone you've never met? And why are you somehow viewed as callous or cold when you don't?

Not everyone who dies DOES deserve respect and I agree with you on that. I'm definitely not one for being 2 faced and suddenly thinking someone I hated was actually the greatest person in the world because they died.

I am actually surprised that as the day has gone on (in NZ so it was 10am when it happened here, hence had the news on most of the day) I have began to feel a bit sad about it all! I guess it's because I grew up in the 80's when he was at his peak, and the Dangerous album was my first CD album which coincided with me getting my first CD player as well. All the clips I have seen today of the old songs have stirred memories and it's genuinely pretty sad that he's now gone IMO.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Respect for life is more important than respect for death in my view, and respect has to be earned. People who don't deserve respect in life due to having been a nasty for whatever reason shouldn't get any in death either, it just stands to reason.

I think respect is something that everyone deserves unconditionally. Certainly there are a lot of people who it is difficult to like, but that's different from respect, as it's based on our personal view of the world.

[talking_wiss]

Always liked a bit of Wacko Jacko's tunes throughout my childhood. RIP

One thing that always made me feel uncomfortable was the parents that still sent their kids to visit Jackson even after the accusations started arising about him and his 'wandering hands'.

Now of course a lot of these parents have reached 'out of court settlements' for the time their kids were with him. Whether there's any truth in the alleagations we'll probably never know, but you have to question the motives of these parents for sending their kids to Neverland.

[BravestHibs]

Are you suggesting Michael Jackson was :confused:

If he wasn't then we should at least give him that respect which is due to anyone that is taken away from their loved ones at such a short notice.

MJ grew up without knowing childhood and had a father who he hated so much he had surgery to make himself look nothing like him. He lived in Neverland, big clue here, child that never grew up, pretty much sums him up.

How do you get that?

If you want to know where I stand on whether Michael Jackson was a good or a bad guy then just ask me.

[BravestHibs]

I think respect is something that everyone deserves unconditionally. Certainly there are a lot of people who it is difficult to like, but that's different from respect, as it's based on our personal view of the world.

Agreed, respect is totally different to liking someone but I don't subscribe to your view that everyone deserves respect unconditionally.

[ArabHibee]

For once we agree on something.

:woohoo:

:wink:

[Tomsk]

I think respect is something that everyone deserves unconditionally. Certainly there are a lot of people who it is difficult to like, but that's different from respect, as it's based on our personal view of the world.

Hmmm. I often say courtesy you will get automatically. Respect is something you have to earn. I suspect we are saying the same thing.

[Jonnyboy]

Hmmm. I often say courtesy you will get automatically. Respect is something you have to earn. I suspect we are saying the same thing.

:agree:

[ArabHibee]

Quite a few people have posted about him having a terrible childhood and I would like to ask a genuinely honest question about this.

Would his brothers and sisters not have had the same upbringing as him? Why did they not carry on like he did?
I know everyone's an individual and all that and everyone reacts differently to situations but he seemed to be miles apart from his siblings.

I've also never heard the story of him stating that he changed his face and skin colour so he didn't look like his Dad - can someone substantiate this story?

[Jay]

Quite a few people have posted about him having a terrible childhood and I would like to ask a genuinely honest question about this.

Would his brothers and sisters not have had the same upbringing as him? Why did they not carry on like he did?
I know everyone's an individual and all that and everyone reacts differently to situations but he seemed to be miles apart from his siblings.

I've also never heard the story of him stating that he changed his face and skin colour so he didn't look like his Dad - can someone substantiate this story?


How can anyone do that? The only person who really knows why he did it died yesterday.

[ArabHibee]

How can anyone do that? The only person who really knows why he did it died yesterday.

What I meant Jill was that maybe it was in an autobiography or an interview that he had given?

[LiverpoolHibs]

In light of watching a bit of this on the news (and not really being fussed either way in this argument, to be perfectly honest - I'm not going to indulge in faux-grief though I understand he may have meant alot to some so neither am I going to engage in the tiresome and terribly try-hard denigration), I'm not sure Morrissey's lyrics to Paint a Vulgar Picture have ever appeared more prescient.

At the record company party,
On their hands a dead star,
The sycophantic slags all say,
"I knew him first, and I knew him well!"

It would be good if someone could put Uri Geller down...

[Phil D. Rolls]

Agreed, respect is totally different to liking someone but I don't subscribe to your view that everyone deserves respect unconditionally.


Hmmm. I often say courtesy you will get automatically. Respect is something you have to earn. I suspect we are saying the same thing.

Never judge a man till you walk 1000 miles in his moccasins? I think that unless you know every aspect of someone's story it makes more sense to give them the benefit of the doubt than to make judgements on them.

I work as a nurse - it's a job I enjoy, but it is no harder or more special than anyone elses work (I'm only telling you this because it is relevant to how I think). I meet lots of people who have done things that many would find unusual, or even repulsive. However if I was to let those things get in the way of trying to help them reclaim their lives it would be wrong.

You find someone in distress you treat the human being, not their past. I think the root of all that is that everyone has a right to be seen as a human rather than a monster.

I don't think many people are genuinely happy when another human dies. They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

[Phil D. Rolls]

What I meant Jill was that maybe it was in an autobiography or an interview that he had given?

Just heard John McEnroe say the same thing, he was a friend of Michael Jackson.

I think it is pretty well documented that his father was abusive and controlling of all the children. Michael - the star of the act because of his size and age - was controlled more than the rest.

He never had a childhood, he was a commodity to many different people, who made them lots of money. It seems he spent a lot of his adult life (which he had no preparation for) wishing for the childhood he never had.

[steakbake]

I suppose to look on the positive side: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8120412.stm

[Tomsk]

Never judge a man till you walk 1000 miles in his moccasins? I think that unless you know every aspect of someone's story it makes more sense to give them the benefit of the doubt than to make judgements on them.

I work as a nurse - it's a job I enjoy, but it is no harder or more special than anyone elses work (I'm only telling you this because it is relevant to how I think). I meet lots of people who have done things that many would find unusual, or even repulsive. However if I was to let those things get in the way of trying to help them reclaim their lives it would be wrong.

You find someone in distress you treat the human being, not their past. I think the root of all that is that everyone has a right to be seen as a human rather than a monster.

I don't think many people are genuinely happy when another human dies. They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.


It's precisely because I don't wish to judge a person when I don't know him or her that I automatically afford that person courtesy, the time of day, a shake of the hand. But without knowing a person I cannot give them respect, simply because I have nothing to ground my respect on.

Anyway, your last line reminded me of this, from Billie Holiday (and others)

Please don't talk about me when I'm gone
Though our friendship ceases from now on
And if you can't say anything real nice
Please don't talk at all, that's my advice

We're parting, you go your way I'll go mine
It's best that we do
But here's a little kiss and I hope that this brings lots of luck to you
Makes no difference how I carry on
Please don't talk about me when I'm gone

Strikes me, those words are ones we all might want to apply at times like these.

[BravestHibs]

Never judge a man till you walk 1000 miles in his moccasins? I think that unless you know every aspect of someone's story it makes more sense to give them the benefit of the doubt than to make judgements on them.

I work as a nurse - it's a job I enjoy, but it is no harder or more special than anyone elses work (I'm only telling you this because it is relevant to how I think). I meet lots of people who have done things that many would find unusual, or even repulsive. However if I was to let those things get in the way of trying to help them reclaim their lives it would be wrong.

You find someone in distress you treat the human being, not their past. I think the root of all that is that everyone has a right to be seen as a human rather than a monster.

I don't think many people are genuinely happy when another human dies. They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

I work as a nurse - it's a job I enjoy, but it is no harder or more special than anyone elses work (I'm only telling you this because it is relevant to how I think).

It seems to be relevant to alot of your posts as well judging by how often you mention it. Why do we need to know your profession?

They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.

What flaw does it show up exactly? I make and laugh at nasty jokes as long as I think that they are funny, clever or well thought out. Which flaw in my character does that show up exactly? I'm genuinely interested. Personally I'm laughing at the joke not the person the joke is about.

Michael Jackson had his life and I have mine, I think someone in an earlier post mentioned that you wouldn't like it if someone started making jokes at your expense if you died or a member of your family died. Well that's true enough, but the difference with me or someone in my family is that I/they haven't thrust themselves into the public domain. Michael Jackson did.

Michael Jackson may well have had a hard life, but he also reaped alot of rewards from what he was doing, riches beyond your wildest dreams for one but with these rewards come certain sacrifices, one of which is taking what people think of you on the chin be it good or be it bad, everyone has their critics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction I think it was Einstein that said that but I could be wrong, and that doesn't exclude fame and all its trappings.

FWIW I thoroughly enjoy listening to his music, particularly his Jackson 5 and early solo stuff but I honestly cannot feel saddened by his death.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's precisely because I don't wish to judge a person when I don't know him or her that I automatically afford that person courtesy, the time of day, a shake of the hand. But without knowing a person I cannot give them respect, simply because I have nothing to ground my respect on.



I think we're talking about the same thing. :agree:

[khib70]

Keep this thread free from sick jokes - final warning.

Anyone else feels they need to be the stand up comedian tonight won't be around here tomorrow
Maybe you can run your fan club tribute site somewhere else. Some of us think he was a detestable human being who used his fame and money to avoid the consequences of his twisted fantasies. And some of us think his music was shallow and derivative.

Black humour is a legitimate part of dealing with things. Unavoidable in this context.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I work as a nurse - it's a job I enjoy, but it is no harder or more special than anyone elses work (I'm only telling you this because it is relevant to how I think).


It seems to be relevant to alot of your posts as well judging by how often you mention it. Why do we need to know your profession?

I'm trying to make it clear where my philosophy comes from, that's all. I don't mention it that often, in fact I think this is the first thread I've spoken about it. I think the job I do might have some relevance to how I view death, I'm guessing, but I think I maybe come across it more often than others. I'm not wanting a prize or anything, and if I thought I didn't have to mention it I wouldn't have - that's what I do in the real world.

They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.


What flaw does it show up exactly? I make and laugh at nasty jokes as long as I think that they are funny, clever or well thought out. Which flaw in my character does that show up exactly? I'm genuinely interested. Personally I'm laughing at the joke not the person the joke is about.


If you want someone to help you understand your personality, then I'm not the person. There's lots of stuff written on the psychology of humour, I'm hardly breaking new ground by saying that it is sometimes used as a defence mechanism by people.


Michael Jackson had his life and I have mine, I think someone in an earlier post mentioned that you wouldn't like it if someone started making jokes at your expense if you died or a member of your family died. Well that's true enough, but the difference with me or someone in my family is that I/they haven't thrust themselves into the public domain. Michael Jackson did.

Don't want to split hairs, but one of the things that made Michael Jackson the person he was - in many people's opinion - is that he didn't choose to live his life in public, he was made to. Besides I think it is possible to see beyond the public face of a person, and appreciate that behind that there is a thinking, feeling person.


Michael Jackson may well have had a hard life, but he also reaped alot of rewards from what he was doing, riches beyond your wildest dreams for one but with these rewards come certain sacrifices, one of which is taking what people think of you on the chin be it good or be it bad, everyone has their critics. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction I think it was Einstein that said that but I could be wrong, and that doesn't exclude fame and all its trappings.

I notice you don't mention happiness there. I don't think many people would say Michael Jackson was a happy person. Getting back to what this thread is about though, I think most people are able to set aside what a person has done in his life and show respect when they die.


FWIW I thoroughly enjoy listening to his music, particularly his Jackson 5 and early solo stuff but I honestly cannot feel saddened by his death.

I never really liked his music, I am not very sad about his death, but I don't think people show themselves in a good light when they start making sick jokes minutes after the bloke passed. I very much doubt anyone would walk into his funeral and make these jokes (actually I don't doubt it at all, but most people would say it is wrong).

[blaikie]

http://www.tmz.com/

Same site that broke the news of his death, now reporting that he may have overdosed.

[BravestHibs]

I'm trying to make it clear where my philosophy comes from, that's all. I don't mention it that often, in fact I think this is the first thread I've spoken about it. I think the job I do might have some relevance to how I view death, I'm guessing, but I think I maybe come across it more often than others. I'm not wanting a prize or anything, and if I thought I didn't have to mention it I wouldn't have - that's what I do in the real world.


They might be indifferent, but nasty jokes show up a flaw in the person who makes them IMO.



If you want someone to help you understand your personality, then I'm not the person. There's lots of stuff written on the psychology of humour, I'm hardly breaking new ground by saying that it is sometimes used as a defence mechanism by people.




Don't want to split hairs, but one of the things that made Michael Jackson the person he was - in many people's opinion - is that he didn't choose to live his life in public, he was made to. Besides I think it is possible to see beyond the public face of a person, and appreciate that behind that there is a thinking, feeling person.




I notice you don't mention happiness there. I don't think many people would say Michael Jackson was a happy person. Getting back to what this thread is about though, I think most people are able to set aside what a person has done in his life and show respect when they die.




I never really liked his music, I am not very sad about his death, but I don't think people show themselves in a good light when they start making sick jokes minutes after the bloke passed. I very much doubt anyone would walk into his funeral and make these jokes (actually I don't doubt it at all, but most people would say it is wrong).




in fact I think this is the first thread I've spoken about it

If that is the case then how come I know that you work in the field of psychology? The thing that made me pick up on it is the fact that you use it as though it somehow makes you more qualified to talk about a topic than everyone else. That may or may not have been your intention but that's how it came across.

If you want someone to help you understand your personality, then I'm not the person.

No you're right, I'd go to a doctor.
You said it showed a flaw in the persons personality. I asked which flaw as you seemed to know. If you don't, then just say so and admit that what you're saying is unsubstantiated.

Don't want to split hairs, but one of the things that made Michael Jackson the person he was - in many people's opinion - is that he didn't choose to live his life in public, he was made to.

Can't argue with that to be honest.

Getting back to what this thread is about though, I think most people are able to set aside what a person has done in his life and show respect when they die.

Again, I don't think anyone can argue with that, my point was that if someone led a life whereby they did nothing worthy of respect then the fact that they die doesn't automatically absolve them of all the bad things they did and qualify them for this ubiquitous post death respect you speak of. I think that whether or not you accord someone your respect is your perogative and fail to see why everyone should automatically qualify for it. I think whoever it was was spot on when they said courtesy should be given as a matter of course but respect is earned.

I never really liked his music, I am not very sad about his death, but I don't think people show themselves in a good light when they start making sick jokes minutes after the bloke passed.

The jokes aren't made with any malicious intent, I think that they highlight in a nutshell the risks of celebrity. You are in the public domain selling yourself, and everyone that buys a piece is, in my opinion, entitled to feel like they own a bit of you. If they knew the man personally I agreee that they almost certainly wouldn't make the same jokes, but the fact of the matter is that they and I don't.

[flash]

I am gutted at this news :boo hoo: Hubby called me from his work at 11.15pm and this is like the 'Twin Towers' - where were you at the time kinda thing.

What a true Legend and Great Person ... and the usual ... press and papz gave the man nowt but stress and heartache for years .. infact all his short life. . . . . So sad.


RIP Michael

The Twin Towers? Yeah its also right up there with the Great War and Lockerbie now that you mention it.

[Tomsk]

Maybe you can run your fan club tribute site somewhere else. Some of us think he was a detestable human being who used his fame and money to avoid the consequences of his twisted fantasies. And some of us think his music was shallow and derivative.

Black humour is a legitimate part of dealing with things. Unavoidable in this context.

I am broadly sympathetic with this.

My views on Michael Jackson and his music I will keep to myself -- if only because they are not very well formed :wink: -- but I can't understand why people are being censored on this site for making jokes about him, sick or otherwise. Unless I am mistaken, this isn't the Michael Jackson Appreciation Society website, it's Hibs Net. Jokes may well be bordering on poor taste, although that is surely subjective, but they are certainly not out of place.

Perhaps it cannot be established with any certainty whether or not Jackson was guilty of the accusations leveled at him but I would have thought posters on this site should be free to take a stand one way or the other and discuss the issues freely and without threat of censor. And if the jokes and comments happen to offend some people's sensibilities, so what! It's not as though the jokes are about some famous Hibbie.

[Phil D. Rolls]

If that is the case then how come I know that you work in the field of psychology? The thing that made me pick up on it is the fact that you use it as though it somehow makes you more qualified to talk about a topic than everyone else. That may or may not have been your intention but that's how it came across.

I certainly haven't intended to come across as a know all. I definitely am no better qualified to talk about these things than anyone else. I was wanting to talk about the dilemmas that doctors and nurses face when they have to treat someone whose life disgusts them, I think that was relevant to the topic of respect for humanity. I couldn't really do that without declaring an interest.

If you want someone to help you understand your personality, then I'm not the person.


No you're right, I'd go to a doctor.
You said it showed a flaw in the persons personality. I asked which flaw as you seemed to know. If you don't, then just say so and admit that what you're saying is unsubstantiated.

You asked me to talk about you as an individual, I can't possibly do that. I was generalising, based on a fair bit of evidence on the subject, which (unfortunately it would appear) I happen to have studied. I think the flaw I was thinking about was lack of empathy, or avoidance of something that is uncomfortable by making fun of it. Kind of like people who laugh at funerals when they really want to cry.

Getting back to what this thread is about though, I think most people are able to set aside what a person has done in his life and show respect when they die.


Again, I don't think anyone can argue with that, my point was that if someone led a life whereby they did nothing worthy of respect then the fact that they die doesn't automatically absolve them of all the bad things they did and qualify them for this ubiquitous post death respect you speak of. I think that whether or not you accord someone your respect is your perogative and fail to see why everyone should automatically qualify for respect. I think whoever it was was spot on when they said courtesy should be given as a matter of course but respect is earned.

I agree with you 100%, I've already said that its about how you interpret the word respect. I personally feel, and it is for everyone to decide how they feel on the subject, that there is a time and a place for some things. All I have done is say how I feel about the jokes, if people are uncomfortable with it that's their business, but it doesn't change how I feel about it.

I never really liked his music, I am not very sad about his death, but I don't think people show themselves in a good light when they start making sick jokes minutes after the bloke passed.


The jokes aren't made with any malicious intent, I think that they highlight in a nutshell the risks of celebrity. You are in the public domain selling yourself, and everyone that buys a piece is, in my opinion, entitled to feel like they own a bit of you. If they knew the man personally I agreee that they almost certainly wouldn't make the same jokes, but the fact of the matter is that they and I don't.

I agree up to a point. We have to see, that despite what fame brings to people they are human beings. I can understand how people feel about this particular man's life, as I've said before though, to me he was still a human being with the same basic needs and rights as the rest of us.

[flash]

Keep this thread free from sick jokes - final warning.

Anyone else feels they need to be the stand up comedian tonight won't be around here tomorrow

Would i seriously get barred from .Net if i told a joke about this?

[BravestHibs]

I certainly haven't intended to come across as a know all. I definitely am no better qualified to talk about these things than anyone else. I was wanting to talk about the dilemmas that doctors and nurses face when they have to treat someone whose life disgusts them, I think that was relevant to the topic of respect for humanity. I couldn't really do that without declaring an interest.

If you want someone to help you understand your personality, then I'm not the person.



You asked me to talk about you as an individual, I can't possibly do that. I was generalising, based on a fair bit of evidence on the subject, which (unfortunately it would appear) I happen to have studied. I think the flaw I was thinking about was lack of empathy, or avoidance of something that is uncomfortable by making fun of it. Kind of like people who laugh at funerals when they really want to cry.

Getting back to what this thread is about though, I think most people are able to set aside what a person has done in his life and show respect when they die.



I agree with you 100%, I've already said that its about how you interpret the word respect. I personally feel, and it is for everyone to decide how they feel on the subject, that there is a time and a place for some things. All I have done is say how I feel about the jokes, if people are uncomfortable with it that's their business, but it doesn't change how I feel about it.

I never really liked his music, I am not very sad about his death, but I don't think people show themselves in a good light when they start making sick jokes minutes after the bloke passed.



I agree up to a point. We have to see, that despite what fame brings to people they are human beings. I can understand how people feel about this particular man's life, as I've said before though, to me he was still a human being with the same basic needs and rights as the rest of us.

I agree with you 100%, I've already said that its about how you interpret the word respect. I personally feel, and it is for everyone to decide how they feel on the subject, that there is a time and a place for some things. All I have done is say how I feel about the jokes, if people are uncomfortable with it that's their business, but it doesn't change how I feel about it.

I don't know if you were referring to me directly as you, on purpose or otherwise, left it ambiguous, the thing that bothers me isn't that these jokes give you the horribles it's the fact that you seem to think that you are somehow either intellectually or morally superior to those who tell them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree with you 100%, I've already said that its about how you interpret the word respect. I personally feel, and it is for everyone to decide how they feel on the subject, that there is a time and a place for some things. All I have done is say how I feel about the jokes, if people are uncomfortable with it that's their business, but it doesn't change how I feel about it.

I don't know if you were referring to me directly as you, on purpose or otherwise, left it ambiguous, the thing that bothers me isn't that these jokes give you the horribles it's the fact that you seem to think that you are somehow either intellectually or morally superior to those who tell them.

OK, I think this has gone far enough. To be honest, I haven't got a clue what you posted earlier on, who made what joke or any of the rest of it.

I can reassure you that at no point have I been getting at you. If you feel those things about me, then that is your entitlement. I haven't tried to analyse you, please don't do it to me. I've tried to be open and honest and give reasons why I feel the way I do, in fact I've probably said more than I would like to have.

[BravestHibs]

OK, I think this has gone far enough. To be honest, I haven't got a clue what you posted earlier on, who made what joke or any of the rest of it.

I can reassure you that at no point have I been getting at you. If you feel those things about me, then that is your entitlement. I haven't tried to analyse you, please don't do it to me. I've tried to be open and honest and give reasons why I feel the way I do, in fact I've probably said more than I would like to have.

Well I'm not sure why you think I'm analysing you but if you feel uncomfortable we'll leave it there. No problem.

[MSK]

Would i seriously get barred from .Net if i told a joke about this?The person who was given a ban was warned on more than one occassion, he ignored the warnings therefore was banned, other posts were deleted, so in answer to your question if you were to ignore the warnings posted on this thread & persisted with sick jokes then yes you would be banned ..

[Barman Stanton]

I strangely seem to be agreeing with people I normally wouldnt with on this thread.

Firstly I will say that I think the guy was a musical genius. Billy Jean is imo one of the greatest tunes ever written.

But lets be honest, the guy clearly wasnt right. And it seems likely (imo) that without having the ability to pay off kids, he would be sitting in a police cell right now. I would agree that he is a huge loss to the musical world, but not a huge loss as a person.

[steakbake]

Nothing really kicks off in the same way as an RIP/Dead celebrity thread on Hibs.net. It's quite something to behold.

:hnet:

[Mibbes Aye]

Why? Was it turned off?

:faf: :faf:

[MSK]

Nothing really kicks off in the same way as an RIP/Dead celebrity thread on Hibs.net. It's quite something to behold.

:hnet:You know, i followed this thread closely from work last night & to be honest i was astonished at some of the posts, a few rightly deleted by Hibby D....what gets on my goat though is why some feel the urge to crack a joke about Jacksons death !!!! absolutley pathetic & sad ..moreso folk had the balls to question the reasons as to why the sick jokes were deleted !!!

Thankfully though the "sicko's" are in the minority on here & the more sensible of posters continue to follow the standards hibs.net sets & prides itself in ..

[flash]

You know, i followed this thread closely from work last night & to be honest i was astonished at some of the posts, a few rightly deleted by Hibby D....what gets on my goat though is why some feel the urge to crack a joke about Jacksons death !!!! absolutley pathetic & sad ..moreso folk had the balls to question the reasons as to why the sick jokes were deleted !!!

Thankfully though the "sicko's" are in the minority on here & the more sensible of posters continue to follow the standards hibs.net sets & prides itself in ..

I have had at least 10 jokes texted to me today about this subject. I don't think this makes my mates "sickos".

It's healthy that we all have different reactions to these things. The chances of anyone being close enough to MJ to be genuinely offended reading threse pages is remote to say the least.

[Brizo]

Imho Jackson was as nutty as a fruitloop and hadnt made a decent record for 20 odd years.

As much as I am sorry to hear of anyones death you wont catch me indulging in the new age religion of dianaesque communal celebrity grieving.

Leaving out the unproven allegations , he indulged in enough substantiated bonkers behaviour that would have had joe public locked up. Some will argue the celebrity lead to his behaviour, others that his celebrity allowed him to indulge his extreme behaviour.

Theres young lads getting killed in Afghanistan and Iraq receiving a few inchs column space in our media while Jackson will be in the media 24/7 for the foreseeable.

[Hibby D]

Maybe you can run your fan club tribute site somewhere else. Some of us think he was a detestable human being who used his fame and money to avoid the consequences of his twisted fantasies. And some of us think his music was shallow and derivative.

Black humour is a legitimate part of dealing with things. Unavoidable in this context.

My fan club tribute site? :greengrin
I have no problem with your opinion of Michael Jackson or his music; I treat opinions made about musicians in exactly the same manner as I do about those made on the main messageboard about football players.


I am broadly sympathetic with this.

My views on Michael Jackson and his music I will keep to myself -- if only because they are not very well formed :wink: -- but I can't understand why people are being censored on this site for making jokes about him, sick or otherwise. Unless I am mistaken, this isn't the Michael Jackson Appreciation Society website, it's Hibs Net. Jokes may well be bordering on poor taste, although that is surely subjective, but they are certainly not out of place.

Perhaps it cannot be established with any certainty whether or not Jackson was guilty of the accusations leveled at him but I would have thought posters on this site should be free to take a stand one way or the other and discuss the issues freely and without threat of censor. And if the jokes and comments happen to offend some people's sensibilities, so what! It's not as though the jokes are about some famous Hibbie.

You are right - it is subjective as to whether the jokes are in poor taste or not but a balance had to be struck and considering it was only minutes after the news of MJ's death was announced that the jokes started, I took the decision to nip them in the bud by asking people not to post them. One person chose to ignore my request (more than once) and so ended up with a 24 hour ban. No big deal.

No-one has been censored or banned because of their opinion of MJ and EVERYONE has been allowed free reign to "discuss the issues freely and without threat of censor" :agree:

The site has a "report post" function - it's there to be used by anyone who wants to use it and many people have done so since last night. Many others have chosen not to because, and I'm assuming here, they were not fussed one way or another by what was posted - and that's fine too :agree:

[MSK]

I have had at least 10 jokes texted to me today about this subject. I don't think this makes my mates "sickos".

It's healthy that we all have different reactions to these things. The chances of anyone being close enough to MJ to be genuinely offended reading threse pages is remote to say the least.I couldnt care less if your mates text you the so-called jokes, my concern is about what is posted on here & not what you recieve on your phone..thats your business mate ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

Well I'm not sure why you think I'm analysing you but if you feel uncomfortable we'll leave it there. No problem.

It was when you started to get into telling me what I think. Now take that butter out of your mouth before it melts. :greengrin


I have had at least 10 jokes texted to me today about this subject. I don't think this makes my mates "sickos".

It's healthy that we all have different reactions to these things. The chances of anyone being close enough to MJ to be genuinely offended reading threse pages is remote to say the least.

I think the original argument was about the timing. We were on the thread as the news broke.

[Sylar]

You know, i followed this thread closely from work last night & to be honest i was astonished at some of the posts, a few rightly deleted by Hibby D....what gets on my goat though is why some feel the urge to crack a joke about Jacksons death !!!! absolutley pathetic & sad ..moreso folk had the balls to question the reasons as to why the sick jokes were deleted !!!

Thankfully though the "sicko's" are in the minority on here & the more sensible of posters continue to follow the standards hibs.net sets & prides itself in ..

I wouldn't engage in the joking, and rightly agree with its removal from the public forum (as the Webmaster would be responsible for any topics/postings which would reflect on/bring action against Hibs.net as a whole).

Having said that, the term "sicko" is a wee smidgeon harsh IMO. My uncle was a firefighter for years, and they often joked about some of the carnage they witnessed, including the death which followed the job. There were exception, obviously, particularly when children were involved, but speak to most fireman, and their mantra is the same. People "cope" in different ways, and both sides of the argument (mourning sickness and black humour) tend to respond poorly to one another.

I think in some cases, you need to revert to black humour, as if you took death in such a serious fashion, it would really alter your perceptions and character.

[Hibby D]

Would i seriously get barred from .Net if i told a joke about this?

The person involved got banned for 24 hours :greengrin- it wasn't because of the jokes (which were pretty rubbish anyway) it was because I asked for them not to be posted and he/she chose to carry on (and on and on and on)


I have had at least 10 jokes texted to me today about this subject. I don't think this makes my mates "sickos".

It's healthy that we all have different reactions to these things. The chances of anyone being close enough to MJ to be genuinely offended reading threse pages is remote to say the least.

:agree: Good debate is indeed healthy.

[Barney McGrew]

I think in some cases, you need to revert to black humour, as if you took death in such a serious fashion, it would really alter your perceptions and character.

There's a big difference between using black houmour to cope with the day to day stress of a job such as a firefighter and posting jokes on a football website though :wink:

[Tomsk]

My fan club tribute site? :greengrin
I have no problem with your opinion of Michael Jackson or his music; I treat opinions made about musicians in exactly the same manner as I do about those made on the main messageboard about football players.



You are right - it is subjective as to whether the jokes are in poor taste or not but a balance had to be struck and considering it was only minutes after the news of MJ's death was announced that the jokes started, I took the decision to nip them in the bud by asking people not to post them. One person chose to ignore my request (more than once) and so ended up with a 24 hour ban. No big deal.

No-one has been censored or banned because of their opinion of MJ and EVERYONE has been allowed free reign to "discuss the issues freely and without threat of censor" :agree:

The site has a "report post" function - it's there to be used by anyone who wants to use it and many people have done so since last night. Many others have chosen not to because, and I'm assuming here, they were not fussed one way or another by what was posted - and that's fine too :agree:


I don't think that argument can be sustained. The freedom to discuss the issues has not been extended to those who wish to do so through the medium of what are judged to be sick jokes, for instance. :greengrin

Could you let me know how one reports a post? I may wish to avail myself of the service reporting some serious outbreaks of censoriousness and pomposity on this site. :wink:

[Barney McGrew]

I don't think that argument can be sustained. The freedom to discuss the issues has not been extended to those who wish to do so through the medium of what are judged to be sick jokes, for instance. :greengrin

Could you let me know how one reports a post? I may wish to avail myself of the service reporting some serious outbreaks of censoriousness and pomposity on this site. :wink:

The rules state:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws

The deleted posts ticked off at least two of those things and were therefore removed. They were also reported as unsuitable by a number of board users.

The report post function is the wee red triangle on each post if you want to use it though :wink:

[Tomsk]

I wouldn't engage in the joking, and rightly agree with its removal from the public forum (as the Webmaster would be responsible for any topics/postings which would reflect on/bring action against Hibs.net as a whole).

Having said that, the term "sicko" is a wee smidgeon harsh IMO. My uncle was a firefighter for years, and they often joked about some of the carnage they witnessed, including the death which followed the job. There were exception, obviously, particularly when children were involved, but speak to most fireman, and their mantra is the same. People "cope" in different ways, and both sides of the argument (mourning sickness and black humour) tend to respond poorly to one another.

I think in some cases, you need to revert to black humour, as if you took death in such a serious fashion, it would really alter your perceptions and character.

Exactly. I was particularly pleased to see these standards being rigorously applied when Wallace Mercer died. RIP.

[Tomsk]

The rules state:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws

The deleted posts ticked off at least two of those things and were therefore removed. They were also reported as unsuitable by a number of board users.

The report post function is the wee red triangle on each post if you want to use it though :wink:

Sadly, I have to go, or I would come back to you on this one. But for those of us who didn't get a chance to read the jokes could you send them over in a PM? I like a laugh ... I mean, I like to make up my own mind. Ahem. :wink:

[MSK]

I wouldn't engage in the joking, and rightly agree with its removal from the public forum (as the Webmaster would be responsible for any topics/postings which would reflect on/bring action against Hibs.net as a whole).

Having said that, the term "sicko" is a wee smidgeon harsh IMO. My uncle was a firefighter for years, and they often joked about some of the carnage they witnessed, including the death which followed the job. There were exception, obviously, particularly when children were involved, but speak to most fireman, and their mantra is the same. People "cope" in different ways, and both sides of the argument (mourning sickness and black humour) tend to respond poorly to one another.

I think in some cases, you need to revert to black humour, as if you took death in such a serious fashion, it would really alter your perceptions and character.Nah...i dont think its harsh Scott, in my opinion the jokes are sick ..the folk making those jokes up aint Comedians are they ?...if i get a sick joke via text i will let the sender know they are a sicko ...

BTW im no whiter than white but there is a place for sick jokes & it isnt on this thread nor should it be on any hibs.net forum....Flash mentioned he recieved texts from mates, fine thats his phone & if he finds them funny then crack on ....i just find them distasteful as do many others who have reported them to Admin ..

[hibsbollah]

Exactly. I was particularly pleased to see these standards being rigorously applied when Wallace Mercer died. RIP.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think there are issues of what people call good taste. Sometimes it depends on the context. Sometimes people who see terrible things find some release through black humour. I think it is normal to share these jokes with people who have been in the same situation.

The issue here though is who actually reads the threads. I started a thread a few weeks back about comedy porn film titles. It got bumped because kids might read it. I've no problem with that.

I can see how people like to be edgy with their humour. By it's very nature it is sometimes close to the knuckle, and people cracking edgy jokes shouldn't get too upset if others find them in poor taste.

This is a public forum, and all sorts of people read it. Some might be children, trying to get their head round death. Some might have lost someone and find it difficult. Everyone has their own take on these situations, but I think a wee bit of consideration for the impact jokes can make is needed.

When the admins decide that jokes are beyond the pail, the least people can do is accept their decision with good grace. I'm sure they don't do the job because they want to stop people enjoying themselves.

(I'd write more, but I'm away to delete some of my postings on other threads before someone hits me with the pot/kettle smiley).

[MSK]

Exactly. I was particularly pleased to see these standards being rigorously applied when Wallace Mercer died. RIP.Those standards were applied as best they could, threads were deleted & posts were rightfully removed, however there was hatred against Mercer & no matter how hard Admin tried to keep the threads "legal" or the site above board we were always up against it ...

Btw ..what a pishy comparison ..talk aboot desperate ...:blah:

[flash]

Nah...i dont think its harsh Scott, in my opinion the jokes are sick ..the folk making those jokes up aint Comedians are they ?...if i get a sick joke via text i will let the sender know they are a sicko ...

BTW im no whiter than white but there is a place for sick jokes & it isnt on this thread nor should it be on any hibs.net forum....Flash mentioned he recieved texts from mates, fine thats his phone & if he finds them funny then crack on ....i just find them distasteful as do many others who have reported them to Admin ..

You must be a great laugh at parties. Happyhibbie! Irony at its best.

[shamo9]

Quite a few people have posted about him having a terrible childhood and I would like to ask a genuinely honest question about this.

Would his brothers and sisters not have had the same upbringing as him? Why did they not carry on like he did?
I know everyone's an individual and all that and everyone reacts differently to situations but he seemed to be miles apart from his siblings.

I've also never heard the story of him stating that he changed his face and skin colour so he didn't look like his Dad - can someone substantiate this story?
It's like Andy and Jamie Murray. Jamie is quite talented and famous in his own right, but Andy has, and always will be, the star.
He's Michael Jackson, everyone knows who he is; anonymity wasn't in his vocabulary.

I don't really have a problem with people not caring for him - although no one can ignore the legacy he left. I just don't find some of the jokes about him that funny.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

[flash]

I think there are issues of what people call good taste. Sometimes it depends on the context. Sometimes people who see terrible things find some release through black humour. I think it is normal to share these jokes with people who have been in the same situation.

The issue here though is who actually reads the threads. I started a thread a few weeks back about comedy porn film titles. It got bumped because kids might read it. I've no problem with that.

I can see how people like to be edgy with their humour. By it's very nature it is sometimes close to the knuckle, and people cracking edgy jokes shouldn't get too upset if others find them in poor taste.

This is a public forum, and all sorts of people read it. Some might be children, trying to get their head round death. Some might have lost someone and find it difficult. Everyone has their own take on these situations, but I think a wee bit of consideration for the impact jokes can make is needed.

When the admins decide that jokes are beyond the pail, the least people can do is accept their decision with good grace. I'm sure they don't do the job because they want to stop people enjoying themselves.

(I'd write more, but I'm away to delete some of my postings on other threads before someone hits me with the pot/kettle smiley).

To be fair the jokes are a lot less dangerous to kids than the butt of them was.

[Phil D. Rolls]

To be fair the jokes are a lot less dangerous to kids than the butt of them was.

I think it's time to re-open the Yorkshire Ripper, Son of Sam and Ted Bundy cases again. It's clear Jackson was a homicidal pervert who targeted the weak and vulnerable.

Clear to everyone except the US courts who remarkably found him not guilty. Still I'm sure that had they has access to the information that so many Hibs.net posters have, they might have returned a different verdict.

[MSK]

You must be a great laugh at parties. Happyhibbie! Irony at its best.Why the need to get personal ..?..you know **** all about me !!!

[ArabHibee]

I wouldn't engage in the joking, and rightly agree with its removal from the public forum (as the Webmaster would be responsible for any topics/postings which would reflect on/bring action against Hibs.net as a whole).

Having said that, the term "sicko" is a wee smidgeon harsh IMO. My uncle was a firefighter for years, and they often joked about some of the carnage they witnessed, including the death which followed the job. There were exception, obviously, particularly when children were involved, but speak to most fireman, and their mantra is the same. People "cope" in different ways, and both sides of the argument (mourning sickness and black humour) tend to respond poorly to one another.

I think in some cases, you need to revert to black humour, as if you took death in such a serious fashion, it would really alter your perceptions and character.

Isn't that what pregnant woman suffer from? :greengrin


The rules state:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws

The deleted posts ticked off at least two of those things and were therefore removed. They were also reported as unsuitable by a number of board users.

The report post function is the wee red triangle on each post if you want to use it though :wink:

I totally agree with what you've stated above. I'd be interested to know how many reports Hibby D got in the 90 seconds it took to delete one of my posts?

[marinello59]

I totally agree with what you've stated above. I'd be interested to know how many reports Hibby D got in the 90 seconds it took to delete one of my posts?

It only takes one.

And 90 seconds? You sure.:wink:

[MSK]

Isn't that what pregnant woman suffer from? :greengrin



I totally agree with what you've stated above. I'd be interested to know how many reports Hibby D got in the 90 seconds it took to delete one of my posts?Reported posts go to the Admin forum & not Hibby D...she was the unfortunate Admin wasting her time removing posts & trying to reason wi eejits ...

[flash]

Why the need to get personal ..?..you know **** all about me !!!

No and you don't know my mates either.

[Hiber-nation]

There's been all sorts of folk today asking me if I've got any Michael Jackson jokes. Perfectly normal people who don't usually partake in the usual e-mail banter but wanting to hear what some might call a cheap laugh as they didn't particularly care for the man and his lifestyle, no matter how good or bad his music was.

To me some of the borderline racist posts on this board are way way more offensive than any jokes about Jackson.

But just voicing my opinion - far be it for me to dictate to the admins on here as they do a great job.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Isn't that what pregnant woman suffer from? :greengrin



I totally agree with what you've stated above. I'd be interested to know how many reports Hibby D got in the 90 seconds it took to delete one of my posts?

What we have here is a failure to communicate.:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

No and you don't know my mates either.

OMG fight, fight!

[Hibby D]

Isn't that what pregnant woman suffer from? :greengrin



I totally agree with what you've stated above. I'd be interested to know how many reports Hibby D got in the 90 seconds it took to delete one of my posts?

I'm not sure what you mean? :confused:

[Jonnyboy]

I have had at least 10 jokes texted to me today about this subject. I don't think this makes my mates "sickos".

It's healthy that we all have different reactions to these things. The chances of anyone being close enough to MJ to be genuinely offended reading threse pages is remote to say the least.

Are you suggesting that only those close to MJ would have the right to be offended by some of the stuff deleted on this site? I never knew the guy, I wasn't remotely close to him but I found some of the stuff offensive.

[da-robster]

There's been all sorts of folk today asking me if I've got any Michael Jackson jokes. Perfectly normal people who don't usually partake in the usual e-mail banter but wanting to hear what some might call a cheap laugh as they didn't particularly care for the man and his lifestyle, no matter how good or bad his music was.

To me some of the borderline racist posts on this board are way way more offensive than any jokes about Jackson.

But just voicing my opinion - far be it for me to dictate to the admins on here as they do a great job.

I think it's the fact that it's a lot easier to single out this joke in question than it would be to define the line between racism and freedom of speach for example.

[LiverpoolHibs]

In light of watching a bit of this on the news (and not really being fussed either way in this argument, to be perfectly honest - I'm not going to indulge in faux-grief though I understand he may have meant alot to some so neither am I going to engage in the tiresome and terribly try-hard denigration), I'm not sure Morrissey's lyrics to Paint a Vulgar Picture have ever appeared more prescient.

At the record company party,
On their hands a dead star,
The sycophantic slags all say,
"I knew him first, and I knew him well!"

It would be good if someone could put Uri Geller down...

And now in the light of every grasping ******* under the sun trying to make a few quid out of it (how on earth have ITV got a programme ready within 24 hours?!) and the fact that the avarice is only going to accelerate in the future...

Re-issue! Re-package! Re-package!
Re-evaluate the songs,
Double-pack with a photograph,
Extra track and a tacky badge.

God bless Steven Patrick Morrisey.

[MSK]

No and you don't know my mates either.Well i dont know Flash, but i will say something, i dont know why you feel the need to have a dig at me, you have done so on various threads throughout the years & to be honest i dont know why, perhaps you have spat the dummy out because i have dared warn you or removed a post or thread ..just you continue to spit the dummy out & carry on the personal pish...i will continue to do my job here ..see who lasts longest ....:wink:

[Pete]

I feel genuinely sad now that he's gone. He was always just there as the top performer in the world to a lot of people. I think it's only now that he's gone people can look back and realise how special he was...it's as if we've somehow taken him for granted.

I don't believe for a minute he had any sexual interest in children or that he done anything wrong in that respect. If you believe he was even after that public address he gave after his last court case then you must also think he was one of the finest actors ever to have lived.

Also, how much money would you accept to keep quiet if your child had genuinely been abused by someone? I would tell them to shove their money and I would see them in court...especially if, like some people say, the evidence was overwhelming.

I just hope all the people who took advantage of him and screwed him have nightmares. I doubt they will.