Racist Attacks in Belfast

[Betty Boop]

100 Romanians have been forced from their homes, by a gang of knuckle-dragging racists, armed with bottles and stones. The families who included pregnant women and a five day old baby, had to take shelter in a church after the gang smashed their windows. :grr:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8104287.st

[steakbake]

No doubt someone will be on to blame the migrants for having the audacity to come to the UK, but before that, I thought I'd get my 2 cents in and say that this is shameful. Reminiscent of the Jewish ghettoes being attacked by civilians in wartime Germany.

[BravestHibs]

No doubt someone will be on to blame the migrants for having the audacity to come to the UK, but before that, I thought I'd get my 2 cents in and say that this is shameful. Reminiscent of the Jewish ghettoes being attacked by civilians in wartime Germany.

It was probably due to the fact that the locals hadn't seen them attending English lessons.

[Phil D. Rolls]

They were probably annoyed that the Romanians don't fit in with the Province's tradition of tolerance, and they wanted to show them how things used to be done.

At least both sides have something in common now, they are bigoted against the same thing - Romanians. It's PC gone mad!

[JackRegan]

They were probably annoyed that the Romanians don't fit in with the Province's tradition of tolerance, and they wanted to show them how things used to be done.

At least both sides have something in common now, they are bigoted against the same thing - Romanians. It's PC gone mad!

Why is it both sides? this area is a loyalist heartland and its loyalists who have previous for attacking ethnic minorities in the 6 counties.

By your logic you are suggesting both sides ganged up on them????

But, hey never mind the facts - just keep using "the bad as each other" mantra/rhetoric.

[(((Fergus)))]

Why is it both sides? this area is a loyalist heartland and its loyalists who have previous for attacking ethnic minorities in the 6 counties.

By your logic you are suggesting both sides ganged up on them????

But, hey never mind the facts - just keep using "the bad as each other" mantra/rhetoric.

that was my first thought reading this story: was the proddies or catholics. are you saying that republicans/catholics never get involved in racism over there or just that the loyalists have had more publicity?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Why is it both sides? this area is a loyalist heartland and its loyalists who have previous for attacking ethnic minorities in the 6 counties.

By your logic you are suggesting both sides ganged up on them????

But, hey never mind the facts - just keep using "the bad as each other" mantra/rhetoric.

This is genuine - I am sorry, it was a crass thing to do to make those comments without getting the facts of the story first. I accept what you are saying Jack, and it was easier for me to take a superficial view of the situation than to look into what actually happened.

I just wasn't wanting to get into the whole sectarian thing, and try to apportion blame. I accept that when it comes to a tradition of picking on minorities, the Ulster Protestants have a long history. Without any evidence of Ulster Catholic communities doing similar things it was totally unfair to blame both sides.

[JackRegan]

that was my first thought reading this story: was the proddies or catholics. are you saying that republicans/catholics never get involved in racism over there or just that the loyalists have had more publicity?

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing. Sinn Fein also consider themselves to be a Socialist party.

The loyalists have aligned themselves both ideologically and operationally with far right factions.

The same thing has happend to the Portuguese community in Portadown/North Armagh and with the Chinese in Belfast. its also DUP councillors and DUP membership that are steadfastly refusing to allow new, purpose built mosques to be built in the 6 counties. There have only been 4 or 5 Racially aggrevated offences in Republican/Nationalist ares involving immigrants/asylum seekeres.

A wee anecdote about the areas in question here. When some Republicans had a Palestinian delegation over, loyalists put up Israeli flags on the lamposts. However, they forgot that the same week they had a delegation from the KKK coming over from the USA, this resulted in senior UDA/DUP people getting out their beds at dawn taking down all the Israel flags!! :agree:

A lot of UDA/UVF funding and arms came from far right groups in the US.

[JackRegan]

This is genuine - I am sorry, it was a crass thing to do to make those comments without getting the facts of the story first. I accept what you are saying Jack, and it was easier for me to take a superficial view of the situation than to look into what actually happened.

I just wasn't wanting to get into the whole sectarian thing, and try to apportion blame. I accept that when it comes to a tradition of picking on minorities, the Ulster Protestants have a long history. Without any evidence of Ulster Catholic communities doing similar things it was totally unfair to blame both sides.

No worries. The Republicans ascertained that the immigrants were Catholic Muslims/Hindus/Taoists/Buddists/Sikhs before hand. :wink:

[JackRegan]

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing. Sinn Fein also consider themselves to be a Socialist party.

The loyalists have aligned themselves both ideologically and operationally with far right factions.

The same thing has happend to the Portuguese community in Portadown/North Armagh and with the Chinese in Belfast. its also DUP councillors and DUP membership that are steadfastly refusing to allow new, purpose built mosques to be built in the 6 counties. There have only been 4 or 5 Racially aggrevated offences in Republican/Nationalist ares involving immigrants/asylum seekeres.

A wee anecdote about the areas in question here. When some Republicans had a Palestinian delegation over, loyalists put up Israeli flags on the lamposts. However, they forgot that the same week they had a delegation from the KKK coming over from the USA, this resulted in senior UDA/DUP people getting out their beds at dawn taking down all the Israel flags!! :agree:

A lot of UDA/UVF funding and arms came from far right groups in the US.

In fairness, I should add that the Unionist community, for the most part have no part in this and are equally sickened. :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Of course, some say that fascism and Catholicism are inextricably linked:

Big Old Nazi Fool (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/father-ted/video/series-3/episode-1/bunker-mentality)

[Tazio]

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing. Sinn Fein also consider themselves to be a Socialist party.

The loyalists have aligned themselves both ideologically and operationally with far right factions.


What? All of them? Interesting that a persons religion seems to predetermine their political views in your opinion.

[Andy74]

What? All of them? Interesting that a persons religion seems to predetermine their political views in your opinion.

Eh? Loyalism isn't a religion that I'm aware of!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Eh? Loyalism isn't a religion that I'm aware of!

I wasn't even aware it was a word! :greengrin

But then I discovered it was, and some other interesting points about loyalism, at this website.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/loy/index.html

[LiverpoolHibs]

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing.

Not exclusively, but I agree with your wider points in this thread incidentally.

Belfast's loyalists must be missing the days when they could partake in the odd pogrom without fear of repurcussions...

[superbam]

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing. Sinn Fein also consider themselves to be a Socialist party.

The loyalists have aligned themselves both ideologically and operationally with far right factions.

The same thing has happend to the Portuguese community in Portadown/North Armagh and with the Chinese in Belfast. its also DUP councillors and DUP membership that are steadfastly refusing to allow new, purpose built mosques to be built in the 6 counties. There have only been 4 or 5 Racially aggrevated offences in Republican/Nationalist ares involving immigrants/asylum seekeres.

A wee anecdote about the areas in question here. When some Republicans had a Palestinian delegation over, loyalists put up Israeli flags on the lamposts. However, they forgot that the same week they had a delegation from the KKK coming over from the USA, this resulted in senior UDA/DUP people getting out their beds at dawn taking down all the Israel flags!! :agree:

A lot of UDA/UVF funding and arms came from far right groups in the US.

Aye CONSIDER being the key word - im sure there are some genuine socialists in their ranks, but their leadership is all for hopping into bed with the right-wing parties in the south, and sections of their support base here are very much right-wing nationalist. But I accept its a bit different in the north.

[(((Fergus)))]

The Republican/Nationalist communities are left wing. Sinn Fein also consider themselves to be a Socialist party.

The loyalists have aligned themselves both ideologically and operationally with far right factions.

The same thing has happend to the Portuguese community in Portadown/North Armagh and with the Chinese in Belfast. its also DUP councillors and DUP membership that are steadfastly refusing to allow new, purpose built mosques to be built in the 6 counties. There have only been 4 or 5 Racially aggrevated offences in Republican/Nationalist ares involving immigrants/asylum seekeres.

A wee anecdote about the areas in question here. When some Republicans had a Palestinian delegation over, loyalists put up Israeli flags on the lamposts. However, they forgot that the same week they had a delegation from the KKK coming over from the USA, this resulted in senior UDA/DUP people getting out their beds at dawn taking down all the Israel flags!! :agree:

A lot of UDA/UVF funding and arms came from far right groups in the US.

That is quality. :faf:

One thing you forget about those tolerant Republicans/Nationalists: they tend to have extreme prejudice against "DOBs". In that sense, both sides can be lumped together.

[Dashing Bob S]

Not surprising that this brain-dead rump of useless **** left behind by the continuing peace process in Ulster wish to embrace a 'contemporary, modern issue' as decided by the tabloids and right-wing UK politicians, to give vent to their bloodlust and deluded supremacist views.

All they need is the legitimacy of the UK establishment to go into attack dog mode. I hope that right-wing types in the press and politics realise that this idiocy is triggered by their comments.

[Hibrandenburg]

No doubt someone will be on to blame the migrants for having the audacity to come to the UK, but before that, I thought I'd get my 2 cents in and say that this is shameful. Reminiscent of the Jewish ghettoes being attacked by civilians in wartime Germany.

It's worse, they haven't been encouraged to do it by the government.

[fergal7]

Not wishing to sound too controvertial here but in a tinderbox that is Northern Ireland, any old bother is likely to erupt at any time.

Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

Dont worry marching season is soon here........ the real enemy.

[Sir David Gray]

No doubt someone will be on to blame the migrants for having the audacity to come to the UK, but before that, I thought I'd get my 2 cents in and say that this is shameful. Reminiscent of the Jewish ghettoes being attacked by civilians in wartime Germany.


It was probably due to the fact that the locals hadn't seen them attending English lessons.

I am disgusted at these two comments (particularly the one by BravestHibs) as it is obviously trying to imply that people like myself, who would like to see immigrants learning English, somehow condone these attacks.

As far as I'm concerned, how good someone's English is has nothing at all to do with whether or not they should be physically attacked and driven from their homes.

From what I have heard about this incident, I absolutely condemn these attacks in the strongest possible terms.

No matter what my opinion is on people learning English, or what I think about our current immigration laws, I have never, and will never, condone physical attacks against any law abiding citizen in this country.

The people who are responsible for these attacks should be utterly ashamed of their actions and I hope they are brought to justice.

[(((Fergus)))]

Was speaking to an english polisman today who says that these sort of attacks are increasingly prevalent across the country (whole of UK), just that they're not being reported.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Was speaking to an english polisman today who says that these sort of attacks are increasingly prevalent across the country (whole of UK), just that they're not being reported.

He must go through some shoe leather.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

.

I can.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

Is that a serious question?! I'd hope that the vast, vast majority of people could say that they wouldn't.

On a different note, does FalkirkHibee's post sound like a New Labour press-release to anyone else? :wink:

[Betty Boop]

Not wishing to sound too controvertial here but in a tinderbox that is Northern Ireland, any old bother is likely to erupt at any time.

Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

Dont worry marching season is soon here........ the real enemy.

You can't be serious? :confused:

[fergal7]

Can I ask "what colour is the sky in the world you people live in?"

[CropleyWasGod]

Can I ask "what colour is the sky in the world you people live in?"

You can. In fact, you just did. :wink:

Looking out of the window, at 2240, it appears to be a dark shade of grey.

Then again, my view is partly obscured by the body of the Chinese guy hanging from the lamp-post, swaying gently in the wind.

[ArabHibee]

You can. In fact, you just did. :wink:

Looking out of the window, at 2240, it appears to be a dark shade of grey.

Then again, my view is partly obscured by the body of the Chinese guy hanging from the lamp-post, swaying gently in the wind.
Jeesy-peeps, where do you stay? :paranoid::shocked:

[CropleyWasGod]

Jeesy-peeps, where do you stay? :paranoid::shocked:

Next door to Fergal :wink:

[fergal7]

Is that a serious question?! I'd hope that the vast, vast majority of people could say that they wouldn't.

On a different note, does FalkirkHibee's post sound like a New Labour press-release to anyone else? :wink:

OK,came across a bit too heavy but I really dont care about these people.

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

Try getting into Romania and be western.

[CropleyWasGod]

OK,came across a bit too heavy but I really dont care about these people.

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

Try getting into Romania and be western.

You said on another thread that "drink has been taken". Let's leave it at that.

[Tomsk]

OK,came across a bit too heavy but I really dont care about these people.

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

Try getting into Romania and be western.

... but you've toned it down now.

[fergal7]

You said on another thread that "drink has been taken". Let's leave it at that.

okey doke...... Liverpool Hibs will have something to say nae doot..........

[fergal7]

... but you've toned it down now.

Not if you want to say something..........

[Sir David Gray]

Is that a serious question?! I'd hope that the vast, vast majority of people could say that they wouldn't.

On a different note, does FalkirkHibee's post sound like a New Labour press-release to anyone else? :wink:

In what way? :confused:

[hibsdaft]

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

they got attacked in their homes, one guy seemed to have been stabbed.

try explaining this to a kid five days old.


Try getting into Romania and be western.

Romania is Western mate.


Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

they're not all in one street.

[fergal7]

they got attacked in their homes, one guy seemed to have been stabbed.

try explaining this to a kid five days old.



Romania is Western mate.



they're not all in one street.

I can see where this is going.

No one wants them, thats why there here......benefits.......

ok, a kid 5 day old kid was there and got a good coverage in the media.. no one was hurt, who cares,
No one was stabbed.

Would you want them in your street? Honest Answer?

[(((Fergus)))]

OK,came across a bit too heavy but I really dont care about these people.

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

Try getting into Romania and be western.

They were Roma (gypsies) - they get the **** kicked out them there anyway, possibly worse than here

[Tazio]

They were Roma (gypsies) - they get the **** kicked out them there anyway, possibly worse than here

Roma are treated badly all over Europe, especially Eastern Europe. I worked with a Romanian guy in Hungary who struggled to get work when he moved there as he was "swarthy" and people assumed that as a he looked the way he did and was from Romania he must be Roma. And it wasn't just his paranoia, people openly said it at interviews.

[(((Fergus)))]

Roma are treated badly all over Europe, especially Eastern Europe. I worked with a Romanian guy in Hungary who struggled to get work when he moved there as he was "swarthy" and people assumed that as a he looked the way he did and was from Romania he must be Roma. And it wasn't just his paranoia, people openly said it at interviews.


That's my experience too. Even in the Czech Republic, which I thought was the most progressive of all the Eastern Bloc states, they are openly hostile towards the "black *******s". The do have a reputation as dirty, thieving, etc., etc. and I once interrupted a gypsy who was pickpocketing on the Budapest metro - he threatened to cut my throat. A few years after, I was robbed by one outside a Bucharest station. Later on the same trip I saw gypsy women being bullied by ticket inspectors on a train and one was taken into the toilet for some reason. :confused: At the border with Serbia,they were treated like ***** by passport control. Also seen sleeping gypsies in stations regularly kicked awake by conscript soldiers and generally terrorised. No one batted an eyelid.

[Tazio]

That's my experience too. Even in the Czech Republic, which I thought was the most progressive of all the Eastern Bloc states, they are openly hostile towards the "black *******s". The do have a reputation as dirty, thieving, etc., etc. and I once interrupted a gypsy who was pickpocketing on the Budapest metro - he threatened to cut my throat. A few years after, I was robbed by one outside a Bucharest station. Later on the same trip I saw gypsy women being bullied by ticket inspectors on a train and one was taken into the toilet for some reason. :confused: At the border with Serbia,they were treated like ***** by passport control. Also seen sleeping gypsies in stations regularly kicked awake by conscript soldiers and generally terrorised. No one batted an eyelid.

They do have very different attitudes and lifestyle, and they suffer for it. In Hungary Roma beggars are very common, but people think nothing of spitting on them. It's an odd situation that has no easy solution.

[hibsdaft]

ok, a kid 5 day old kid was there and got a good coverage in the media...

those pesky five day old babies grabbing media coverage again eh, shocking.

[hibsbollah]

Would you want them in your street? Honest Answer?

Yes, I would welcome them in my street. I said the exact thing to my wife when we were watching it onfold yesterday. Its an emotion called empathy.

[LiverpoolHibs]

OK,came across a bit too heavy but I really dont care about these people.

If they come here and have there feelings hurt then tough ****. Its a big bad world.

Try getting into Romania and be western.


okey doke...... Liverpool Hibs will have something to say nae doot..........

Yeah, funny that someone might object to you explicitly justifying what is, in essence, a pogrom.

On the subject of anti-Roma racism that the thread has turned towards; this is a fantastic article...

[/URL]
[URL]http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:nFvrUEZulfMJ:www.mediawise.org.uk/files/uploaded/Valeriu%2520article.doc+ROMAPHOBIA+%E2%80%93+EUROP E%E2%80%99S+%27Acceptable+Racism%E2%80%99&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:nFvrUEZulfMJ:www.mediawise.org.uk/files/uploaded/Valeriu%2520article.doc+ROMAPHOBIA+%E2%80%93+EUROP E%E2%80%99S+%27Acceptable+Racism%E2%80%99&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk)

[(((Fergus)))]

Yes, I would welcome them in my street. I said the exact thing to my wife when we were watching it onfold yesterday. Its an emotion called empathy.

The trouble with some Roma is that they are less like this

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist255/bohem/gypsy.jpg

and more like this

http://www.gamepark.cz/pictures/00/07/79/77959.JPG

If you go to the Czech border areas where many "Cikani" were rehoused after the Germans were expelled, you will see how once magnificent German towns and villages have become ruins. It's because of this slovenliness, thieving, begging, etc., that the "host" people in Eastern Europe are so antagonistic towards gypsies and generally don't want them in their neighbourhoods.

Of course, pure xenophobia also plays a part, however if they were viewed as net contributors to society - in the host people's terms - there wouldn't be such a problem. The jews, for instance, are generally tolerated as long as they are a) creating jobs for the locals and b) not looking too wealthy themselves. The Vietnamese are also tolerated as long as they are selling fags etc. at half price and generally trying to blend in.

Of course, the gypsies aren't entirely to blame for this state of affairs as modern state boundaries and property laws curtail their natural, nomadic way of life. Take a fish out of water and it will struggle.

[hibsbollah]

The trouble with some Roma is that they are less like this

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist255/bohem/gypsy.jpg

and more like this

http://www.gamepark.cz/pictures/00/07/79/77959.JPG

If you go to the Czech border areas where many "Cikani" were rehoused after the Germans were expelled, you will see how once magnificent German towns and villages have become ruins. It's because of this slovenliness, thieving, begging, etc., that the "host" people in Eastern Europe are so antagonistic towards gypsies and generally don't want them in their neighbourhoods.

Of course, pure xenophobia also plays a part, however if they were viewed as net contributors to society - in the host people's terms - there wouldn't be such a problem. The jews, for instance, are generally tolerated as long as they are a) creating jobs for the locals and b) not looking too wealthy themselves. The Vietnamese are also tolerated as long as they are selling fags etc. at half price and generally trying to blend in.

Of course, the gypsies aren't entirely to blame for this state of affairs as modern state boundaries and property laws curtail their natural, nomadic way of life. Take a fish out of water and it will struggle.

Im sure you can paint a picture of any manky part of Europe and say its due to the 'slovenliness' of the inhabitants. There are some less than salubrious neighbourhoods of Edinburgh that could be said the same of. Whether you think its down to lack of investment in those areas or the genetic and cultural makeup of the inhabitants is down to you I suppose...

[(((Fergus)))]

Im sure you can paint a picture of any manky part of Europe and say its due to the 'slovenliness' of the inhabitants. There are some less than salubrious neighbourhoods of Edinburgh that could be said the same of. Whether you think its down to lack of investment in those areas or the genetic and cultural makeup of the inhabitants is down to you I suppose...

I don't know if it's genetic/cultural, but I see something similar when other nomadic people are confined, e.g., Indigenous North Americans or the Scottish Highland Travellers. In our town, there were three "settled" families and they were responsible for the majority of the anti-social crime in the town (until I hit my teens, anyway). Those who still lived the old ways and camped on the foreshore in the summer, never caused any trouble whatsoever. People were still hostile towards them though, probably just because they looked and sounded different. I still remember seeing two old tinker ladies at the door selling something or other - they were as exotic as Tibetans.

[BravestHibs]

I am disgusted at these two comments (particularly the one by BravestHibs) as it is obviously trying to imply that people like myself, who would like to see immigrants learning English, somehow condone these attacks.

As far as I'm concerned, how good someone's English is has nothing at all to do with whether or not they should be physically attacked and driven from their homes.

From what I have heard about this incident, I absolutely condemn these attacks in the strongest possible terms.

No matter what my opinion is on people learning English, or what I think about our current immigration laws, I have never, and will never, condone physical attacks against any law abiding citizen in this country.

The people who are responsible for these attacks should be utterly ashamed of their actions and I hope they are brought to justice.

What if they had been failed asylum seakers and therefore on the "wrong side of the law" would it be ok then? Would you join them, pitch fork-a-waving?

The fact that you feel the need to explicitly distance yourself from a racist mob would probably make me think very long and very hard about my views.

[IndieHibby]

What if they had been failed asylum seakers and therefore on the "wrong side of the law" would it be ok then? Would you join them, pitch fork-a-waving?

The fact that you feel the need to explicitly distance yourself from a racist mob would probably make me think very long and very hard about my views.

For someone who objects so strongly to perceptions that other people put words into his/her mouth, this post is just a tad hypocritical, don't you think, Bravest? Where did FH even remotely suggest that their illegal status would justify violence.

Stop being so effing contrary....

[BravestHibs]

For someone who objects so strongly to perceptions that other people put words into his/her mouth, this post is just a tad hypocritical, don't you think, Bravest? Where did FH even remotely suggest that their illegal status would justify violence.

Stop being so effing contrary....

I highlighted the part in his post where he remotely suggested it. What are you, his effing big brother?

[Sir David Gray]

What if they had been failed asylum seakers and therefore on the "wrong side of the law" would it be ok then? Would you join them, pitch fork-a-waving?

The fact that you feel the need to explicitly distance yourself from a racist mob would probably make me think very long and very hard about my views.

Personally, I would never dream of physically attacking anyone, unless they had done some serious harm to a member of my family, then I may feel slightly differently. That goes for anyone, by the way, not just immigrants (illegal or otherwise).

I felt the need to distance myself from these attacks because you seemed to be implying in your first post on this thread that, because the locals hadn't seen them attending English lessons, some people on here would try to defend the attackers and see that as some sort of excuse for the physical abuse that these people have suffered. Which is just utter nonsense, really.

I am one of those people who would like to see immigrants, who come to the UK, learning English and I therefore felt it was necessary to make it clear that I do not support these attacks in any way, shape or form.

I don't know about anyone else but I would say it's one thing to criticise immigrants for not learning English, or for not integrating properly, and something entirely different to take part in, or encourage, physical attacks against them.

[hibsbollah]

I don't know if it's genetic/cultural, but I see something similar when other nomadic people are confined, e.g., Indigenous North Americans or the Scottish Highland Travellers. In our town, there were three "settled" families and they were responsible for the majority of the anti-social crime in the town (until I hit my teens, anyway). Those who still lived the old ways and camped on the foreshore in the summer, never caused any trouble whatsoever. People were still hostile towards them though, probably just because they looked and sounded different. I still remember seeing two old tinker ladies at the door selling something or other - they were as exotic as Tibetans.

I think you have a point in relation to confined nomadic people having problems adjusting to sedentary life (although to explain away the bad behaviour of your neighbours as borne from frustrated wanderlust is stretching it a bit IMO; its just as likely they were just a bunch of mentalists:wink:).

[Betty Boop]

I heard a community worker being interviewed on the radio this morning, she said that Polish immigrants had been ethnically cleansed from the same area, as where the attacks took place. I suspect racism is still a huge issue in the UK and is being swept under the carpet. :bitchy:

[(((Fergus)))]

I think you have a point in relation to confined nomadic people having problems adjusting to sedentary life (although to explain away the bad behaviour of your neighbours as borne from frustrated wanderlust is stretching it a bit IMO; its just as likely they were just a bunch of mentalists:wink:).

It's possible I suppose but thinking back it does seem a bit of a coincidence. :whistle:

One (single) mother did her best to fit in and ran a very trendy "jeans shop" in the town. Her kids were mental though and mostly ended up in the army (travelling the world). One had an accident with a tank and now has a strangely shaped head.

Another family used to do stuff like rob the protective clothing and helmets out the fire station and walk around the town in slow motion as if they were spacemen, knocking on people's windows. On another occasion they threw hatchets through a pub window while doing Red Indian yelps outside. :faf: Most of them were in and out of borstal/prison.

In the third family, the boys were playing with hatchets (again) and one boy had the fingers on one hand chopped off. They now live in a street of semi-detached council houses although theirs is the only one with their name spelt out letter-by-letter in bright yellow on a row of galvanised watering cans on the roof above the door. :thumbsup:

[IndieHibby]

I highlighted the part in his post where he remotely suggested it. What are you, his effing big brother?

:faf: That's funny. I'll give you that.

He said he supported law-abiding citizens. He didn't, as you implied (which you dislike being done to you), imply that anyone who breaks any law should be physically assaulted.

No, I am not his effing big brother. I just thought your post was out of order.

I think I am entitled to defend anyone who is unfairly treated.

It just seems to be FH, more often than not :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

It's possible I suppose but thinking back it does seem a bit of a coincidence. :whistle:

One (single) mother did her best to fit in and ran a very trendy "jeans shop" in the town. Her kids were mental though and mostly ended up in the army (travelling the world). One had an accident with a tank and now has a strangely shaped head.

Another family used to do stuff like rob the protective clothing and helmets out the fire station and walk around the town in slow motion as if they were spacemen, knocking on people's windows. On another occasion they threw hatchets through a pub window while doing Red Indian yelps outside. :faf: Most of them were in and out of borstal/prison.

In the third family, the boys were playing with hatchets (again) and one boy had the fingers on one hand chopped off. They now live in a street of semi-detached council houses although theirs is the only one with their name spelt out letter-by-letter in bright yellow on a row of galvanised watering cans on the roof above the door. :thumbsup:



The question you have to ask yourself is;(well you don't have to, but it passes the time when you should be doing something else:greengrin) is this;

Say there was a 'roma/gypsy corridor' created through Europe, 10 miles wide, from say, Turkey, across central and eastern europe, and Scandinavia for the Sami,and continuing through england, scotland and ireland, (obviously not involving an undersea tunnel before some smarterse asks). The Roma and other nomdic peoples are encouraged to continue their nomadic lifestyle in this corridor for most of the year and are left alone to do so. Would this, in time, result in a happier Roma community and a reduction in tension between them and the non-Roma nearby?

Or would the problems of tension/discrimination persist? Is it a race issue, a lifestyle issue or a combination of both?

[(((Fergus)))]

The question you have to ask yourself is;(well you don't have to, but it passes the time when you should be doing something else:greengrin) is this;

Say there was a 'roma/gypsy corridor' created through Europe, 10 miles wide, from say, Turkey, across central and eastern europe, and Scandinavia for the Sami,and continuing through england, scotland and ireland, (obviously not involving an undersea tunnel before some smarterse asks). The Roma and other nomdic peoples are encouraged to continue their nomadic lifestyle in this corridor for most of the year and are left alone to do so. Would this, in time, result in a happier Roma community and a reduction in tension between them and the non-Roma nearby?

Or would the problems of tension/discrimination persist? Is it a race issue, a lifestyle issue or a combination of both?

It seems impossible for those two ways of life to coexist now, they are so incompatible. One is a very spiritual path, the other is very material. No wonder these people get depressed (or whatever) when they have to stop. I guess all people were wanderers originally and gradually became more "earth-bound". Many of us "non-gypsies" are actually still moving, just at different speeds or in different ways (e.g., sales reps, formula one, going on "Holy-day" each summer).

As for xenophobia, I reckon virtually all people just have an inherent fear of strangers. If the strangers are providing some benefit, then the fear is temporarily placated. I don't think it's a healthy state at all however it is so widespread today that it is seen as "natural". In fact, people create their own fear of strangers for themselves though the way they live their own life, e.g., maybe taking advantage of strangers in other areas. A suspicious person is only ever suspicious of things that he himself is an expert about.

[Sir David Gray]

:faf: That's funny. I'll give you that.

He said he supported law-abiding citizens. He didn't, as you implied (which you dislike being done to you), imply that anyone who breaks any law should be physically assaulted.

No, I am not his effing big brother. I just thought your post was out of order.

I think I am entitled to defend anyone who is unfairly treated.

It just seems to be FH, more often than not :greengrin

It's ok, I'm used to it by now.

To be honest, I'm really not bothered about what people think of me. I'm not on here to win a popularity contest (thank goodness! :greengrin), I'm here to debate certain issues that I'm interested in and put forward my views. Some people agree with what I have to say (which is fine) and most do not (which is also fine).

All the negative comments that I get are really all water off a duck's back, to me.

[BravestHibs]

:faf: That's funny. I'll give you that.

He said he supported law-abiding citizens. He didn't, as you implied (which you dislike being done to you), imply that anyone who breaks any law should be physically assaulted.

No, I am not his effing big brother. I just thought your post was out of order.

I think I am entitled to defend anyone who is unfairly treated.

It just seems to be FH, more often than not :greengrin

No, he said he didn't condone attacks on law abiding citizens. The implication, which is all his, is that if they hadn't been law abiding then it was fair game. If that wasn't the case then why not just say he doesn't condone physical attacks on any citizen? Why the self imposed restriction on who he does and doesn't condone physical attacks on?

I find his views repugnant to say the least.
If this board is about opinions I'd like to see the list that dictates which opinions are more valid than others please.

And as you can see he's not on here to win popularity contests so maybe you can let him answer his own critics? Or is it not you that is then guilty of putting words in his mouth?

[Woody1985]

I am disgusted at these two comments (particularly the one by BravestHibs) as it is obviously trying to imply that people like myself, who would like to see immigrants learning English, somehow condone these attacks.

As far as I'm concerned, how good someone's English is has nothing at all to do with whether or not they should be physically attacked and driven from their homes.

From what I have heard about this incident, I absolutely condemn these attacks in the strongest possible terms.

No matter what my opinion is on people learning English, or what I think about our current immigration laws, I have never, and will never, condone physical attacks against any law abiding citizen in this country.

The people who are responsible for these attacks should be utterly ashamed of their actions and I hope they are brought to justice.

BH is a WUM and IMO a bit of a ****.

He was coming out with the whole 'don't speak English' BS on the Please Vote thread as well. I think this might be becomming a generic response if you don't agree with him.

[hibsbollah]

It seems impossible for those two ways of life to coexist now, they are so incompatible. One is a very spiritual path, the other is very material. No wonder these people get depressed (or whatever) when they have to stop. I guess all people were wanderers originally and gradually became more "earth-bound". Many of us "non-gypsies" are actually still moving, just at different speeds or in different ways (e.g., sales reps, formula one, going on "Holy-day" each summer).

As for xenophobia, I reckon virtually all people just have an inherent fear of strangers. If the strangers are providing some benefit, then the fear is temporarily placated. I don't think it's a healthy state at all however it is so widespread today that it is seen as "natural". In fact, people create their own fear of strangers for themselves though the way they live their own life, e.g., maybe taking advantage of strangers in other areas. A suspicious person is only ever suspicious of things that he himself is an expert about.

I totally agree with your first paragraph. As for the second paragraph, I can only speak for myself but I genuinely dont have any sort of fear of strangers, in fact I find myself drawn to people and things I dont know much about, in a 'grass is greener on the other side' sort of way. Maybe im the exception that proves the rule...

[BravestHibs]

BH is a WUM and IMO a bit of a ****.

He was coming out with the whole 'don't speak English' BS on the Please Vote thread as well. I think this might be becomming a generic response if you don't agree with him.

I didn't even post on the please vote thread you *****.

Generic response to what? If you took the trouble to read the conversation from beginning to end you'd see that I made a reference to a previous thread in my first post. Is that what you're confusing with a 'generic response'? If it was a generic response to someone not agreeing with me I'd come across thicker than you if I just resorted to harking back to a previous thread regardless of what the current thread was about.

Are you reeking?

Also what does WUM mean?

[(((Fergus)))]

I totally agree with your first paragraph. As for the second paragraph, I can only speak for myself but I genuinely dont have any sort of fear of strangers, in fact I find myself drawn to people and things I dont know much about, in a 'grass is greener on the other side' sort of way. Maybe im the exception that proves the rule...

I'm also very much like that, however when I became a home owner, I noticed that I became more sensitive to the sort of people who were moving into our street. A week after we moved in, the house next door also had new occupants. A couple of weeks on and a van load of cops arrives one evening, kicks the door down and drags the wife away. The husband is in the garden screaming blue murder and crying. And there's me just having spend 1000s of pounds for this. :wtf:

Of course, as we got to know them it's not so tragic. I just need to have a bit more faith and not worry about things I can't control - it all seems to turn out for the best anyway.

[Darth Hibbie]

I'm also very much like that, however when I became a home owner, I noticed that I became more sensitive to the sort of people who were moving into our street. A week after we moved in, the house next door also had new occupants. A couple of weeks on and a van load of cops arrives one evening, kicks the door down and drags the wife away. The husband is in the garden screaming blue murder and crying. And there's me just having spend 1000s of pounds for this. :wtf:

Of course, as we got to know them it's not so tragic. I just need to have a bit more faith and not worry about things I can't control - it all seems to turn out for the best anyway.

Seems a bit harsh calling the cops just for them moving in next door.:greengrin

I can't help but think that something similar would just not happen in Scotland :dunno: MAybe I am wrong though

[(((Fergus)))]

Seems a bit harsh calling the cops just for them moving in next door.:greengrin

I can't help but think that something similar would just not happen in Scotland :dunno: MAybe I am wrong though

:greengrin

It happened a couple of times as well. Not a great experience for the first-time buyer, although in hindsight it was a good lesson.

[Woody1985]

I didn't even post on the please vote thread you *****.

Generic response to what? If you took the trouble to read the conversation from beginning to end you'd see that I made a reference to a previous thread in my first post. Is that what you're confusing with a 'generic response'? If it was a generic response to someone not agreeing with me I'd come across thicker than you if I just resorted to harking back to a previous thread regardless of what the current thread was about.

Are you reeking?

Also what does WUM mean?

Apologies, I meant the swine flu thread, post #27, paragraph 3. As for the ***** comment, I'm not even gonna reply to that.

Post #3 is clearly a dig at people who think that immigrants who want to live and work here should make an effort to learn lessons (edit; meant English).

Wind Up Merchant.

[hibsbollah]

:greengrin

It happened a couple of times as well. Not a great experience for the first-time buyer, although in hindsight it was a good lesson.

I had no idea you had such influence with the local constabulary, Mr F:greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

No, he said he didn't condone attacks on law abiding citizens. The implication, which is all his, is that if they hadn't been law abiding then it was fair game. If that wasn't the case then why not just say he doesn't condone physical attacks on any citizen? Why the self imposed restriction on who he does and doesn't condone physical attacks on?

I find his views repugnant to say the least.
If this board is about opinions I'd like to see the list that dictates which opinions are more valid than others please.

And as you can see he's not on here to win popularity contests so maybe you can let him answer his own critics? Or is it not you that is then guilty of putting words in his mouth?

I think you are just splitting hairs here. The fact is, I do not support these attacks, despite you implying things to the contrary in your original post on this thread.

If you find my views so repugnant, there is a very easy solution. Why not just stick me on ignore?

I certainly wouldn't want to listen to someone who offended me, as much as I seem to offend you.


I didn't even post on the please vote thread you *****.

Generic response to what? If you took the trouble to read the conversation from beginning to end you'd see that I made a reference to a previous thread in my first post. Is that what you're confusing with a 'generic response'? If it was a generic response to someone not agreeing with me I'd come across thicker than you if I just resorted to harking back to a previous thread regardless of what the current thread was about.

Are you reeking?

Also what does WUM mean?

That, in my opinion, is far more offensive (or repugnant, to use your expression) than anything I have ever said.

Perhaps you should think about getting your own house in order first, before taking a pop at anyone else.

[BravestHibs]

Apologies, I meant the swine flu thread, post #27, paragraph 3.
Post #3 is clearly a dig at people who think that immigrants who want to live and work here should make an effort to learn lessons.

Wind Up Merchant.

Haha! It's like you're quoting from the bible. And in a way, I suppose you are.

As for the ***** comment, I'm not even gonna reply to that.

Wow, you really are the bigger man in this case. It's good to see that you are above this type of petty namecalling.

[BravestHibs]

I think you are just splitting hairs here. The fact is, I do not support these attacks, despite you implying things to the contrary in your original post on this thread.


I certainly wouldn't want to listen to someone who offended me, as much as I seem to offend you.




Perhaps you should think about getting your own house in order first, before taking a pop at anyone else.

That, in my opinion, is far more offensive (or repugnant, to use your expression) than anything I have ever said.

You are so righteous.

If you find my views so repugnant, there is a very easy solution. Why not just stick me on ignore?

Why don't we just ignore the BNP as well, ignorance may be bliss to you but to me, the opposite is the case.

[(((Fergus)))]

I had no idea you had such influence with the local constabulary, Mr F:greengrin

It's the masonic connections. :agree: Thanks for recommending me to the lodge. :thumbsup:

(Actually, I nearly got lifted myself for remonstrating with the cops)

[marinello59]

Any more petty name calling is going to result in people losing their posting rights here. Please stick to the issues, there is really no need to get personal. Is there?

[BravestHibs]

Is retaliation as bad as starting it?

Could be the name of a new thread..........

[(((Fergus)))]

Is retaliation as bad as starting it?

Could be the name of a new thread..........


That would be good.

Is there such a thing as an "innocent victim"? Discuss.

I'm not even going to go there.

[hibsbollah]

It's the masonic connections. :agree: Thanks for recommending me to the lodge. :thumbsup:

(Actually, I nearly got lifted myself for remonstrating with the cops)

Ayrshire branch, just ask for Gary:faf:

[hibsdaft]

the local resident who organised a solidarity protest against the attacks has been threatened to have his house firebombed.



“I’m very upset that they would target my home and this is a very cowardly way of doing it,” he said.

“I’m not intending on leaving the area, I want to make that very plain.

“My message to these people is that they are isolated, they have nothing to offer the people of the area. They have just shown their cowardly actions by targeting a very vulnerable section of people and now they have tried to go after the people who have tried to defend them.

“It is important that local communities are mobilised to defeat these groups now while they are small and that is exactly what I and other local residents are now determined to do.”

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/antiracism-campaigner-.htmlives-firebomb-threat-14345954.html


fire play to the guy - very brave to stand his ground when those threatening him may well be/have links to the paramilitaries.

[(((Fergus)))]

the local resident who organised a solidarity protest against the attacks has been threatened to have his house firebombed.



http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/antiracism-campaigner-.htmlives-firebomb-threat-14345954.html


fire play to the guy - very brave to stand his ground when those threatening him may well be/have links to the paramilitaries.

Indeed, very brave, hopefully not foolhardy

[hibsdaft]

just noticed that i've done a very Freudian typo above there :greengrin

[fergal7]

Yes, I would welcome them in my street. I said the exact thing to my wife when we were watching it onfold yesterday. Its an emotion called empathy.

You and your wife are fantastic........... I wish I lived beside you..

[hibsbollah]

You and your wife are fantastic........... I wish I lived beside you..

Ive lived next to human beings my whole life, its no big deal.

[fergal7]

Ive lived next to human beings my whole life, its no big deal.

Sorry if i offended you as you are obviously a Palestinian immigrant.

Are you going to kill Israeli human beings with that AK47 on your avatar?

Just curious.

[hibsbollah]

Sorry if i offended you as you are obviously a Palestinian immigrant.

Are you going to kill Israeli human beings with that AK47 on your avatar?

Just curious.

:faf::top marks

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry if i offended you as you are obviously a Palestinian immigrant.

Are you going to kill Israeli human beings with that AK47 on your avatar?

Just curious.

British airports were put on high alert today, after it was revealed that evil terrorists have a new secret weapon - avatars.

"This makes our job 100 times more difficult", said an insider. "It's hard enough defending ourselves against guns and suicide bombers, but this takes us into a whole new ball game".

Nobody is safe.

[CropleyWasGod]

British airports were put on high alert today, after it was revealed that evil terrorists have a new secret weapon - avatars.

"This makes our job 100 times more difficult", said an insider. "It's hard enough defending ourselves against guns and suicide bombers, but this takes us into a whole new ball game".

Nobody is safe.

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms :greengrin

Comfy chairs?

[CropleyWasGod]

Comfy chairs?

No, no.... not the comfy chair...

[fergal7]

No, no.... not the comfy chair...
You guys are comedy geniuses, you must have loads of mates, please dont slag me off............

[CropleyWasGod]

You guys are comedy geniuses, you must have loads of mates, please dont slag me off............

I don't think I could do that as well as you are doing :wink:

[hibsbollah]

You guys are comedy geniuses, you must have loads of mates, please dont slag me off............

Whats that in your avatar?

[Tomsk]

Whats that in your avatar?

Is it not that wee temple thing in the middle of Duddingston Golf Course?

[(((Fergus)))]

Is it not that wee temple thing in the middle of Duddingston Golf Course?

Looks like it


The two Temple holes, the thirteenth and sixteenth, both require the drive to be well-positioned, followed by an extremely accurate second shot, particularly at the thirteenth where the ground falls toward three tricky bunkers left of the green.

http://www.tee2teegolf.co.uk/GolfCourses-ScotlandEdinburgh&Lothian.htm

[hibsbollah]

Thanks for clearing that up:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

You guys are comedy geniuses, you must have loads of mates, please dont slag me off............

Mates, that were luxury!

I had to clean the toilets for 36 hours a day, with my own tongue, and pay my parents for the priviledge.

[Hibby D]

Shame what was an interesting and informative discussion has turned into a mini slanging match.

Sometimes less is more :agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

Shame what was an interesting and informative discussion has turned into a mini slanging match.

Sometimes less is more :agree:

Aye, that Filled Rolls has got a gub on him like a comfy chair.....

[Phil D. Rolls]

Aye, that Filled Rolls has got a gub on him like a comfy chair.....

All I said was "that Halibut was fit for Jehova"! :bitchy:

It's not like I expected the Spanish Inquisition or something.

[CropleyWasGod]

All I said was "that Halibut was fit for Jehova"! :bitchy:

It's not like I expected the Spanish Inquisition or something.

Okay, well...... wee-wease Filled Wolls!!

[richard_pitts]

Why is it both sides? this area is a loyalist heartland and its loyalists who have previous for attacking ethnic minorities in the 6 counties.

By your logic you are suggesting both sides ganged up on them????

But, hey never mind the facts - just keep using "the bad as each other" mantra/rhetoric.

Because those of us who work in race equality can testify that traditionally the only way to unite the warring factions in Belfast is to be an ethnic minority at which point both sides turn on you :bitchy:

[richard_pitts]

Not wishing to sound too controvertial here but in a tinderbox that is Northern Ireland, any old bother is likely to erupt at any time.

Can anyone of us really admit that having so many immigrants in one street when things are so shecht that you wouldn't target the poor buggers?

Dont worry marching season is soon here........ the real enemy.

I'd be more concerned about having people like you in my street.

I've worked with Gypsies and immigrants of all shades and they are no better or no worse than anyone else. The irony of you supporting Hibs is really quite amusing. If you know your history...:bitchy:

[fergal7]

I'd be more concerned about having people like you in my street.

I've worked with Gypsies and immigrants of all shades and they are no better or no worse than anyone else. The irony of you supporting Hibs is really quite amusing. If you know your history...:bitchy:

Aw get off your soapbox.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Because those of us who work in race equality can testify that traditionally the only way to unite the warring factions in Belfast is to be an ethnic minority at which point both sides turn on you :bitchy:

Despite the fact that over 90% of racist attacks in the North occur in loyalist areas? That just seems like a bit of a lazy analysis.


I'd be more concerned about having people like you in my street.

I've worked with Gypsies and immigrants of all shades and they are no better or no worse than anyone else. The irony of you supporting Hibs is really quite amusing. If you know your history...:bitchy:

This, on the other hand, is bang on. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Aw get off your soapbox.

:dummytit:

[richard_pitts]

:dummytit:

Quite. The response of someone without an argument. How is challenging someone's view "getting on my soapbox"? :confused:

LH - that's based on the view of various people within the race equality movement in Northern Ireland, particularly in relation to the Chinese Community, the longest-settled minority ethnic group in the area.

Feral: given your views, why are you any better than the bigots of the Orange Order you are railing against? :confused:

[(((Fergus)))]

Quite. The response of someone without an argument. How is challenging someone's view "getting on my soapbox"? :confused:

LH - that's based on the view of various people within the race equality movement in Northern Ireland, particularly in relation to the Chinese Community, the longest-settled minority ethnic group in the area.

Feral: given your views, why are you any better than the bigots of the Orange Order you are railing against? :confused:

Freudian slip?

[richard_pitts]

Freudian slip?

A typo, odviously!! :faf:

[fergal7]

:dummytit:

Do you spend the countless hours stuck in a taxi rank waiting for that trip to the airport that never comes writing these comedy gold scripts?

You are made for show biz.

[ArabHibee]

Do you spend the countless hours stuck in a taxi rank waiting for that trip to the airport that never comes writing these comedy gold scripts?

You are made for show biz.
:faf:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Do you spend the countless hours stuck in a taxi rank waiting for that trip to the airport that never comes writing these comedy gold scripts?

You are made for show biz.

Sorry, but you didn't make a very good reply to a post. In fact, you resorted to name calling. I think you were fair game.

Thanks for reminding me about cab driving though. It's been a year and I can't say I miss it. Too much time sitting in ranks waiting to get a fare to the airport that never came.:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

:faf:

I suppose that's quite funny in Blairgowrie? :greengrin:wink:

[richard_pitts]

I got PM'd the following from Fergal. Apparently the evil PC police that are our admins aren't letting the poor dear spit the dummy at me in public.

I have two babies, one of who does literally spit his dummy occasionally, admittedly by accident when he's asleep, so I don't really need it on a messageboard but what the heck:

"Hey Hey
They keep deleting my retorts to you........ dont know why its only an opinion. PC I'm afraid.

Please do not patronise me or seek to achieve kudos with the rest of the board with your cheap shots and poor attempts of humour at my opinion which is on an opinion board. It is so easy to be PC these days.

:blah: It was a typo, honest! If you know your history, i have never cared about kudos. At one point I was marginally less popular than Mad Vlad on here when I worked for the official site. Personally I think it's actually even easier to be biogted / racist these days and then moan about PC oppression. I asked a question in my earlier post you have thus far failed to answer :rolleyes:

I have been deleted twice (and warned) because I asked you if you are earning a good living on the back of the misery that these people are clearly living in.

There is a sign on the door of my office that says "Sorry we exist". It's how I feel about my job. I took a pay cut to take it because I wanted to do something good in the world rather than be in sales. I could earn a lot more doing what I do elsewhere. I choose not to. I didn't cause the misery you evidently approve of them living in and I have helped a lot of people make their lives better. Can you say the same?

If you are, can you tell me how and what on you spent the charity or tax payers money on?

Happy to. I work for a charity funded from a variety of sources to do the following:

Supporting victims of discrimination and harassment through advice, advocacy and casework
Working with young offenders to tackle their prejudices
Working with school kids to discuss diversity in a non-threatening manner (the BNP condemned it as PC brainwashing, and Aamer Anwar also condemned it so I am especially proud of this work.)
Policy work to meet the needs of such victims
Community events to bring minority ethnic people together with the rest of the community


PS. I am a Hibs supporter because they are my local team.
For reference I suggest you read a history book about why your team was founded. Largely because people like you in the late 18th century adopted the same approach to Irish migrants as you do the current generation of migrants and refused to admit them to their sporting teams.

I so wanted to put this on the MB but what are the chances?"
There goes my kudos with the rest of the board. Now they all have to listen to you talk b*ll*cks, one of the drawbacks of free speech :duck:

[marinello59]

I give up.
Thread closed.