Should corporal punishment be allowed?

[da-robster]

As above

[Jonnyboy]

As above

For what?

Can I be the first to suggest supporting Hearts is a suitable offence? :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

No violence breeds violence!

[ancienthibby]

No violence breeds violence!

What she said!!:agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

As above

Only amongst consenting adults :slipper:

[Stanton Sharkey]

Yes, serious crimes such as baby p, soham murders, terrorists, fred west to name but a few should be killed for there crimes, however it should be a closed door execution, where the public dont know when or where it happens, only when the deed is done should it be made public. But it wont happen

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes, serious crimes such as baby p, soham murders, terrorists, fred west to name but a few should be killed for there crimes, however it should be a closed door execution, where the public dont know when or where it happens, only when the deed is done should it be made public. But it wont happen

Think you'll find that's capital punishment.

[Stanton Sharkey]

Think you'll find that's capital punishment. Yup your right, misread it, however i think we should have both, nothing like a good flogging before your shot:wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

For what?

Can I be the first to suggest supporting Hearts is a suitable offence? :greengrin

...as is bad spelling and grammar. (insert old codger smilie here). Exemptions are allowed for those with dyslexia....

[Killiehibbie]

Did it do any harm when used in schools? Probably didn't do any good but was better than detention.

[hibsbollah]

Yes, serious crimes such as baby p, soham murders, terrorists, fred west to name but a few should be killed for there crimes, however it should be a closed door execution, where the public dont know when or where it happens, only when the deed is done should it be made public. But it wont happen

I think just giving Fred West or the Soham murderers the belt for what they did is just political correctness gone mad. Bloody liberal do gooders, what about my human rights, its gone too far the other way:grr::grr::grr:

[Sir David Gray]

You haven't said if this is in a school setting for an unruly pupil or as a punishment for a crime, Taliban style.

I would say 'no' on both counts. I think tougher jail sentences is the way forward for criminals. For school pupils, you could easily get a teacher that gets a bit too "power crazy" and belts people for the smallest thing.

The worst behaved pupils should simply be expelled.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think just giving Fred West or the Soham murderers the belt for what they did is just political correctness gone mad. Bloody liberal do gooders, what about my human rights, its gone too far the other way:grr::grr::grr:

Agreed. Should've got 200 lines. Easy.

[CropleyWasGod]

Oh, here's a thought. What about 10 of the best for anyone who uses the phrase "Political correctness gone mad." ?

That'll sort the b*ggars out.

Can I get mine now, please? :devil:

[hibsbollah]

Oh, here's a thought. What about 10 of the best for anyone who uses the phrase "Political correctness gone mad." ?

That'll sort the b*ggars out.

Can I get mine now, please? :devil:

Thats why i used it. Just as good as 'what about my human rights?' :faf:

[Hibs Class]

Yup your right, misread it, however i think we should have both, nothing like a good flogging before your shot:wink:

This year's winner of the Digging Yourself out of a Freshly Dug Hole award :greengrin

[wpj]

Agreed. Should've got 200 lines. Easy.

Keith Richards would love that!! :wink:

[--------]

The way the OP phrased the poll heading, I'd expect macar to be along any minute now....

[da-robster]

Did it do any harm when used in schools? Probably didn't do any good but was better than detention.

Surely if your post is true and it does not do any good than that removes the point of using it as a way to fight crime.:confused:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think it should be allowed, between consenting adults. In fact it should be positively encouraged.

Pierre Vert

[hibsbollah]

I think it should be allowed, between consenting adults. In fact it should be positively encouraged.

Pierre Vert

I dont see why Corporals should have all the fun either:grr: Let all serving ranks have a go.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I dont see why Corporals should have all the fun either:grr: Let all serving ranks have a go.

Can't help feeling that's CP gone mad.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it should be allowed, between consenting adults. In fact it should be positively encouraged.

Pierre Vert

Actually, FR , this may become an issue in the months to come. There is a new Sexual Offences bill going through the Scottish Parliament. There are some MSP's who want to include an amendment to make sado-masochism illegal, even between consenting adults.

:grr:

[Removed]

Actually, FR , this may become an issue in the months to come. There is a new Sexual Offences bill going through the Scottish Parliament. There are some MSP's who want to include an amendment to make sado-masochism illegal, even between consenting adults.

:grr:

Phew, only in Scotland. What about Durham :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Phew, only in Scotland. What about Durham :greengrin

You guys should be OK. I mean, living in England... you do need some outlets. :wink:


Here's another wee nugget from the Bill. Apparently, they are trying to define "consent" for the purposes of rape trials. They have decided that, if a man or woman is drunk, they cannot legally give their consent.

Sooooo..... 1. if you're going out on the pull, make sure you get a sober woman. 2. a guy who's had a drink with his wife could be held to have raped her.

:rolleyes:

[Removed]

You guys should be OK. I mean, living in England... you do need some outlets. :wink:




:shocked:not me :embarrass

:slipper:might change his mind about wanting to be Scottish though :faf:

[Killiehibbie]

Surely if your post is true and it does not do any good than that removes the point of using it as a way to fight crime.:confused:

It depended on the pupil. I remember some guys at school being scared to misbehave in certain classes because that teacher was quick to give you the belt. If I misbehaved an old sadist with a belt was preferable to an hours detention it maybe stung for 5 minutes and that was it.

[sleeping giant]

You , yes you. Stand still Laddie !
Pudding !! Pudding !! How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat ?


No ta:greengrin

[sleeping giant]

My boy has just finished a 2 week grounding and while discussing his behaviour i told him that many of my friends would have been belted for the same offence when i was younger.
He said he would rather have been belted than a 2 week grounding.
Saying that , he has never been belted.

Good god i think about it though:greengrin

[hibsbollah]

My boy has just finished a 2 week grounding and while discussing his behaviour i told him that many of my friends would have been belted for the same offence when i was younger.
He said he would rather have been belted than a 2 week grounding.
Saying that , he has never been belted.

Good god i think about it though:greengrin

Interesting:agree: I think you can only really get your head around the moral issues of corporal punishment when you have kids of your own. My Primary 7 year was the last year to have the belt before it got banned, and I remember all the sadistic teachers using it more than usual that year. It was just accepted, part of the classroom furniture. The kids all used to say the same; they'd rather have the belt than have lines or detention (although whether this makes it a good punishment or not isnt always obvious).

However, the thought of any teacher belting my kids in 2009 gives me the red mist:grr:

[(((Fergus)))]

Interesting:agree: I think you can only really get your head around the moral issues of corporal punishment when you have kids of your own. My Primary 7 year was the last year to have the belt before it got banned, and I remember all the sadistic teachers using it more than usual that year. It was just accepted, part of the classroom furniture. The kids all used to say the same; they'd rather have the belt than have lines or detention (although whether this makes it a good punishment or not isnt always obvious).

However, the thought of any teacher belting my kids in 2009 gives me the red mist:grr:

:agree: CP in school is an admission that you have no clue how to bring out the best in young people.

[J-C]

What we have now is a ferral society with kids running amock unafraid of authority or anyone. In my day you were scared of the local polis cause they knew your dad, or a good clip round the lug was something you didn't want. Also in school, the belt brought the hardest of kids down because of the embarassment of nearly crying after 6 of the best, made you think about being bad after seeing them crumple easily. It's not really the doing of corporal punishment that's the deterent it's the fact that it's there and it could be used. How many times have you seen kids in the street being cheeky and all you want to do is give them a right good clip round the ear but you're the one who'll get into trouble not them.

[(((Fergus)))]

What we have now is a ferral society with kids running amock unafraid of authority or anyone. In my day you were scared of the local polis cause they knew your dad, or a good clip round the lug was something you didn't want. Also in school, the belt brought the hardest of kids down because of the embarassment of nearly crying after 6 of the best, made you think about being bad after seeing them crumple easily. It's not really the doing of corporal punishment that's the deterent it's the fact that it's there and it could be used. How many times have you seen kids in the street being cheeky and all you want to do is give them a right good clip round the ear but you're the one who'll get into trouble not them.

Kids shouldn't be kept in check through fear, but through respect. It's because children didn't respect those in authority that they had to bring in fear instead. Parents/teachers/etc. just have make themselves respectable and the children will follow suit. Children only follow the examples they are given.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Actually, FR , this may become an issue in the months to come. There is a new Sexual Offences bill going through the Scottish Parliament. There are some MSP's who want to include an amendment to make sado-masochism illegal, even between consenting adults.

:grr:

This picks up on that famous English case where four guys were sent to jail, even though they had consented to it. Although I thought what they did was dangerous and disgusting, I felt it was their business. Hunting animals is dangerous and disgusting.

I think this proposed act would be a massive infringement on human rights. It follows a chain of logic from governments, in that they are deciding how people can live their lives.

First they want to ban smoking, and a few people say "that's not right", the majority say "well it's for our own good".

Encouraged by that they turn to drink, and who can argue that drinking too much isn't bad for them?

Who can argue that overeating isn't bad for them, so a control on how many fruit and veg we consume seems logical.

Then they say that having certain urges isn't good for you. And everyone says, "that's thought control", and they say "so what's new, you've already agreed to the principle that we know what's good for you".

If this becomes law, will nurses and doctors be required to inform the police, every time someone comes into hospital having "fallen onto a chair leg"? We are going backwards, we really are.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You , yes you. Stand still Laddie !
Pudding !! Pudding !! How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat ?


No ta:greengrin

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.

It makes as much sense today as it did then.

[CropleyWasGod]

If this becomes law, will nurses and doctors be required to inform the police, every time someone comes into hospital having "fallen onto a chair leg"? We are going backwards, we really are.

Agree totally. However, a lawyer I was speaking to about this reckons that there will be very few prosecutions, just as there have been very few for kerb crawling. The police will hardly prioritise it... and, thinking further, how the H are they going to prove it?

[Lucius Apuleius]

I think it should be allowed, between consenting adults. In fact it should be positively encouraged.

Pierre Vert

Something going on between you and Papillon then?:greengrin

[Tomsk]

What we have now is a ferral society with kids running amock unafraid of authority or anyone. In my day you were scared of the local polis cause they knew your dad, or a good clip round the lug was something you didn't want. Also in school, the belt brought the hardest of kids down because of the embarassment of nearly crying after 6 of the best, made you think about being bad after seeing them crumple easily. It's not really the doing of corporal punishment that's the deterent it's the fact that it's there and it could be used. How many times have you seen kids in the street being cheeky and all you want to do is give them a right good clip round the ear but you're the one who'll get into trouble not them.

Is it really as bad as you make out, JC? Or, more to the point, is it any worse than back in our day?

I coach laddies football. A few of the laddies I meet are cheeky, most are not. Some can be right wee pains. But I've never felt like giving one of them a clip -- might get clipped back, says you! :wink: I find if you speak to them on the level they're brand new. Of course, my players are just wee saints. :angeldevi

[Phil D. Rolls]

What we have now is a ferral society with kids running amock unafraid of authority or anyone. In my day you were scared of the local polis cause they knew your dad, or a good clip round the lug was something you didn't want. Also in school, the belt brought the hardest of kids down because of the embarassment of nearly crying after 6 of the best, made you think about being bad after seeing them crumple easily. It's not really the doing of corporal punishment that's the deterent it's the fact that it's there and it could be used. How many times have you seen kids in the street being cheeky and all you want to do is give them a right good clip round the ear but you're the one who'll get into trouble not them.

I got the belt at school, and I think it was one of the most pointless punishments they could have given me.

Firstly, it established that as long as you could do the time, you were allowed to do the crime. That said, there were some teachers I wouldn't have wanted the belt from, but that was as much down to how they presented themselves as their ability to sting my hand.

Some people behaved because they didn't want to be humiliated by a bad reaction to the strap. However, those that could take it just enhanced their reputation. What other effect could such a challenge have.

Personally, I think it is an admission of failure if you have to resort to beating children. I'm not against smacking small kids, but by the time they are older you have to give them a heck of a doing to have any affect.

[J-C]

Is it really as bad as you make out, JC? Or, more to the point, is it any worse than back in our day?

I coach laddies football. A few of the laddies I meet are cheeky, most are not. Some can be right wee pains. But I've never felt like giving one of them a clip -- might get clipped back, says you! :wink: I find if you speak to them on the level they're brand new. Of course, my players are just wee saints. :angeldevi


I agree that it's only a small percentage of kids that are trouble, you know the ones I mean, dressed like neds, high on drink or drugs, robbing, housebreaking and stealing cars etc. These are the ones roaming around in groups up to no good, shouting abuse at people and throwing stones at fire engines and ambulances. They get put down and go to a young offenders, where they do their time, learn more ways to do crime and back out onto the streets back to their ways.

Now I remember back in the 70's growing up, we hung around in groups but we always had more respect for our elders and never gave the police lip etc. whether it's a sign of the times or did I really miss things that went on that were bad.

Most of the lads who play football for teams etc are usually nice lads, boisterous but not bad as such, that is how lads should be, not threatening grannies, and mugging other kids with knives etc.

What is the answer? well whatever they are doing right now it isn't working.
Is corporal punishment the answer ? well I don't really know but I do remember back in my time the threat of it was enough to make you think twice.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree that it's only a small percentage of kids that are trouble, you know the ones I mean, dressed like neds, high on drink or drugs, robbing, housebreaking and stealing cars etc. These are the ones roaming around in groups up to no good, shouting abuse at people and throwing stones at fire engines and ambulances. They get put down and go to a young offenders, where they do their time, learn more ways to do crime and back out onto the streets back to their ways.

Now I remember back in the 70's growing up, we hung around in groups but we always had more respect for our elders and never gave the police lip etc. whether it's a sign of the times or did I really miss things that went on that were bad.

Most of the lads who play football for teams etc are usually nice lads, boisterous but not bad as such, that is how lads should be, not threatening grannies, and mugging other kids with knives etc.

What is the answer? well whatever they are doing right now it isn't working.
Is corporal punishment the answer ? well I don't really know but I do remember back in my time the threat of it was enough to make you think twice.

I think there has always been delinquency, otherwise why did they need the birch in the past? You only have to read books like The Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner or Brighton Rock, or watch films like The Damned, to see that it is something that has concerned successive generations of old timers.

I'd disagree that there weren't "neds" in the 70s, there was a strong gang culture, the likes of the YLT, and the Gorgie Jungle are good examples. I saw a book recently on the Gangs of Dundee, which went into great detail about the uniforms they wore, the bother they caused and the fights they had.

I think what has changed since then is the attitudes of parents. In the 70s more parents had respect in themselves, and as a result were stricter on their kids, so the kids were a bit more discreet in their nonsense.

There could be lots of reasons for that, I feel the changes in society since the early 80s - particularly the way we go to work, and how we house ourselves, has been a big factor. When people worked in a one horse town, with one major employer, they had to conduct themselves in a certain way, or risk problems at work.

Likewise. "morality" used to be something that came into the mix when council houses were allocated. If you weren't a decent citizen, who cared about your community, you'd find it harder to find somewhere to live.

That has all changed, people have been cut off from the value systems that held things together in the past. When I was young, you wouldn't have seen a drunken mother, and you'd have seen a man drunk occasionaly.

There are a lot more "broken homes" now, and single parents. These things make it harder to keep on top of what the kids are up to as well.

Like you say, most kids will respond positively to a telling off. I think the adults are the problems and they are the ones that need to be leading by example.

[J-C]

I think there has always been delinquency, otherwise why did they need the birch in the past? You only have to read books like The Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner or Brighton Rock, or watch films like The Damned, to see that it is something that has concerned successive generations of old timers.

I'd disagree that there weren't "neds" in the 70s, there was a strong gang culture, the likes of the YLT, and the Gorgie Jungle are good examples. I saw a book recently on the Gangs of Dundee, which went into great detail about the uniforms they wore, the bother they caused and the fights they had.

I think what has changed since then is the attitudes of parents. In the 70s more parents had respect in themselves, and as a result were stricter on their kids, so the kids were a bit more discreet in their nonsense.

There could be lots of reasons for that, I feel the changes in society since the early 80s - particularly the way we go to work, and how we house ourselves, has been a big factor. When people worked in a one horse town, with one major employer, they had to conduct themselves in a certain way, or risk problems at work.

Likewise. "morality" used to be something that came into the mix when council houses were allocated. If you weren't a decent citizen, who cared about your community, you'd find it harder to find somewhere to live.

That has all changed, people have been cut off from the value systems that held things together in the past. When I was young, you wouldn't have seen a drunken mother, and you'd have seen a man drunk occasionaly.

There are a lot more "broken homes" now, and single parents. These things make it harder to keep on top of what the kids are up to as well.

Like you say, most kids will respond positively to a telling off. I think the adults are the problems and they are the ones that need to be leading by example.



Well said FR, hit the nail on the head there, this was the point I was trying to put but couldn't put my finger on it. Society as a whole has deteriorated, parents don't seen to give a damn any more, drugs are rife, though have always been around but not in the abundance as today.

I was brought up by my dad who was fairly strict and I knew my boundaries, if crossed there was hell to pay. I brought my 2 step-sons up similarly, fairly strict but with boundaries. They have grown up to be 2 very decent young men in their 20's with good jobs and good relationships and respect to their elders and family.

As you say, it all has to stem from the home life, brken homes, drugged and drunken parents generally breed neglected kids with problems, you see it on Jeremy Kyle every day.

[sleeping giant]

Well said FR, hit the nail on the head there, this was the point I was trying to put but couldn't put my finger on it. Society as a whole has deteriorated, parents don't seen to give a damn any more, drugs are rife, though have always been around but not in the abundance as today.

I was brought up by my dad who was fairly strict and I knew my boundaries, if crossed there was hell to pay. I brought my 2 step-sons up similarly, fairly strict but with boundaries. They have grown up to be 2 very decent young men in their 20's with good jobs and good relationships and respect to their elders and family.

As you say, it all has to stem from the home life, brken homes, drugged and drunken parents generally breed neglected kids with problems, you see it on Jeremy Kyle every day.

:faf:

I was enjoying your post untill you used Jeremy Kyle as a yardstick:greengrin

[da-robster]

I think it's in no small amount due to the lack of respect from adults to kids.

Have you ever walked deliberately away from someone in a hoodie or called someone a ned from the way they look. More than likely you and the press will moan disproportionately about the behavior of a small miniority over the good deeds of a large majority which are conviently ignored.

I'm saddened and shocked at the sweeping generalizations some posters are making about us schoolkids

Also you blame it on the parents but aren't these the same parents that were raised on the cane.

The way forward is through education and breaking down social barriers not through the pointless reintroduction of a barbaric punishement

[Tomsk]

I think it's in no small amount due to the lack of respect from adults to kids.

Have you ever walked deliberately away from someone in a hoodie or called someone a ned from the way they look. More than likely you and the press will moan disproportionately about the behavior of a small miniority over the good deeds of a large majority which are conviently ignored.

I'm saddened and shocked at the sweeping generalizations some posters are making about us schoolkids

Also you blame it on the parents but aren't these the same parents that were raised on the cane.

The way forward is through education and breaking down social barriers not through the pointless reintroduction of a barbaric punishement

Excellent post. :agree:

[Betty Boop]

I think it's in no small amount due to the lack of respect from adults to kids.

Have you ever walked deliberately away from someone in a hoodie or called someone a ned from the way they look. More than likely you and the press will moan disproportionately about the behavior of a small miniority over the good deeds of a large majority which are conviently ignored.

I'm saddened and shocked at the sweeping generalizations some posters are making about us schoolkids

Also you blame it on the parents but aren't these the same parents that were raised on the cane.

The way forward is through education and breaking down social barriers not through the pointless reintroduction of a barbaric punishement
:top marks
Great post and such wisdom. Are you really 12?

[hibsbollah]

I think it's in no small amount due to the lack of respect from adults to kids.

Have you ever walked deliberately away from someone in a hoodie or called someone a ned from the way they look. More than likely you and the press will moan disproportionately about the behavior of a small miniority over the good deeds of a large majority which are conviently ignored.

I'm saddened and shocked at the sweeping generalizations some posters are making about us schoolkids

Also you blame it on the parents but aren't these the same parents that were raised on the cane.

The way forward is through education and breaking down social barriers not through the pointless reintroduction of a barbaric punishement

Absolutely.

[J-C]

I think it's in no small amount due to the lack of respect from adults to kids.

Have you ever walked deliberately away from someone in a hoodie or called someone a ned from the way they look. More than likely you and the press will moan disproportionately about the behavior of a small miniority over the good deeds of a large majority which are conviently ignored.

I'm saddened and shocked at the sweeping generalizations some posters are making about us schoolkids

Also you blame it on the parents but aren't these the same parents that were raised on the cane.

The way forward is through education and breaking down social barriers not through the pointless reintroduction of a barbaric punishement


Well said young man, showing lot of sense for someone your age.

Obviously the way forward is through education , not just for the kids but also for the parents, both sets need to show respect not just towards each other but also for themselves.

Unfortunately we do generalise on how people look and these barriers have to be broken down before things can improve.

I don't think it's all kids that are being generlised just the ones that hang around causing trouble, housebreaking, stealing cars, doing drugs etc. we all know the majority of kids are usually well behaved and well mannered.

I brought my two lads up without using corporal punishnment, I instilled good morals with a fairly strictish upbringing and they turned out two very likeable lads with a lot of respctability.

I got broken into about 3 years ago by a bunch of young thugs in my area and had a lot of personal stuff nicked, I can tell you if I had caught them that night I'd have leathered them. The police said that they knew who they were but unless they catch them with the stuff there was little chance of nicking them, they also said if I did anything myself I'd be in more trouble than them. It's situation like this that makes people think there must be a better way of detering these kids from doing crime, don't know if corporal punishment is the answer but I can understand why a lot of people would welcome it back.

[Beefster]

I don't want anyone dishing out violence to my son whenever they deem it necessary - especially when his mother and I don't and won't hit him.

If you look at the kids who are causing most of the bother in each area, I'd bet that the majority of them get a beating or a slap on a regular basis. Fat lot of good it did them.

[da-robster]

Well said young man, showing lot of sense for someone your age.

Obviously the way forward is through education , not just for the kids but also for the parents, both sets need to show respect not just towards each other but also for themselves.

Unfortunately we do generalise on how people look and these barriers have to be broken down before things can improve.

I don't think it's all kids that are being generlised just the ones that hang around causing trouble, housebreaking, stealing cars, doing drugs etc. we all know the majority of kids are usually well behaved and well mannered.

I brought my two lads up without using corporal punishnment, I instilled good morals with a fairly strictish upbringing and they turned out two very likeable lads with a lot of respctability.

I got broken into about 3 years ago by a bunch of young thugs in my area and had a lot of personal stuff nicked, I can tell you if I had caught them that night I'd have leathered them. The police said that they knew who they were but unless they catch them with the stuff there was little chance of nicking them, they also said if I did anything myself I'd be in more trouble than them. It's situation like this that makes people think there must be a better way of detering these kids from doing crime, don't know if corporal punishment is the answer but I can understand why a lot of people would welcome it back.

This is quite sad and really shows what's wrong with the way justice is done. For the police to know who was guilty of such a crime and not act on it is appaling what must be made clear is that being teenagers, clearly accountable for there actions, it makes no difference on the crime they commited.

In all probability this is what attracts adults to the idea the frustration at the lack of action on the problems young people cause.In all likelihood they would want to see someting being done despite it being a cruel and as others have put it realitively pointless method.

As you said I agree that before this stops both adults and kids should realise that respect is a two way street. There will always be thugs both young and old out there but it is important to stop this now more widespread thuggery.

Finally on your point aboout generelization maybe I should have phrased this better what I wanted to say was the media is trying to trick people by only showing the negative side of children today it is this misinformation and exagerration from the media which is driving many people's opinions. Perhaps similar way to what the Daily Mail does on immigration.