Will Gordon Brown be PM at the end of June?

[Hibbyradge]

Labour are going to be annihilated tonight.

Will Gogs be sent packing within the month?

This is a poll about what you think will happen, not what you'd prefer.

[hibsdaft]

game over with the Purnell resignation imo.

[Betty Boop]

He will be gone. Its a coup!

[Sylar]

23 council seats lost - ouch!

He SHOULD resign, but he's a bitter little man, so he'll no doubt see out his tenure.

[PeeJay]

Labour are going to be annihilated tonight.

Will Gogs be sent packing within the month?

This is a poll about what you think will happen, not what you'd prefer.

I don't think that the guy who held on through all those Blair years to become PM, will just walk because of current events: the whole Labour Party may well have to gang up on him and drag him out by his feet.

:titanic:Is the Labour Party sunk? If so this ultimately means bad news for most people, because the Tories will return - I can see people in the not too distant future looking back to the "good old days" with Tony and Gordon at the helm!

[--------]

I don't think that the guy who held on through all those Blair years to become PM, will just walk because of current events: the whole Labour Party may well have to gang up on him and drag him out by his feet.

:titanic:Is the Labour Party sunk? If so this ultimately means bad news for most people, because the Tories will return - I can see people in the not too distant future looking back to the "good old days" with Tony and Gordon at the helm!


:confused:

Perhaps you would explain to me just wherein the difference lies between New Labour Tories and Old Tory Tories?

Because if Blair and Brown weren't Tories, they were doing a pretty good job of pretending.

[PeeJay]

:confused:

Perhaps you would explain to me just wherein the difference lies between New Labour Tories and Old Tory Tories?

Because if Blair and Brown weren't Tories, they were doing a pretty good job of pretending.

Doddie, I don't really have to expain the difference to you: if you're living in the UK (which I'm not) the difference is about to come rolling over you (assuming Labour gets the stuffing that seems so likely) - and you won't like it (unless you're a Tory, perhaps).

I wouldn't wish the Tories on my worst enemies - I got out back when Thatcher arrived, I knew even then what was coming!:agree:

[--------]

Doddie, I don't really have to expain the difference to you: if you're living in the UK (which I'm not) the difference is about to come rolling over you (assuming Labour gets the stuffing that seems so likely) - and you won't like it (unless you're a Tory, perhaps).

I wouldn't wish the Tories on my worst enemies - I got out back when Thatcher arrived, I knew even then what was coming!:agree:


Actually, you DO have to explain.

You're out of the UK, I'm living here. I have detected little or no difference in the political life of this country since Thatcher's day.

Thatcher gave way to Major gave way to Blair gave way to Brown, and apart from the colour of the rosette pinned on the winning monkey there seems to have been little change or improvement in the economic, socail or moral life of the country atrributable to any ideological difference between the two governing parties.

Different faces but exactly the same self-serving ideology.

maybe if you were living here, you'd know what I'm talking about?

[PeeJay]

Actually, you DO have to explain.

You're out of the UK, I'm living here. I have detected little or no difference in the political life of this country since Thatcher's day.

Thatcher gave way to Major gave way to Blair gave way to Brown, and apart from the colour of the rosette pinned on the winning monkey there seems to have been little change or improvement in the economic, socail or moral life of the country atrributable to any ideological difference between the two governing parties.

Different faces but exactly the same self-serving ideology.

maybe if you were living here, you'd know what I'm talking about?

I had a brief spell back in the country between 2003 - 2005, and I keep in touch with the country through various means, but it's not like living there that's certainly true.

Personally I believe the old Labour party with its class-obsessed policies was doomed to oblivion, and the only way forward for the party was to go down the road Blair & co. took, i.e. to appeal to a broader section of the populace. For Labour to win an election and remain in power it had to win over the Southern electorate: Old Labour party policies would have failed consistently. Labour has won an unprecedented number of elections.

I believe many of the changes brought about by the Labour Party be it devloution, minimum wage, House of Lords reform, investment in the national health system, education were good ones - and the Tories would not have agreed to any of them. These are surely differences, so why you state that there are no differences is beyond me. You may of course disagree with them, fair enough.

The UK has many, many problems - not least the distribution of wealth and the low wages/salaries paid to the working force - and New Labour has certainly not solved them. I don't believe the Tories will spend too much effort in trying to resolve this state of affairs when in power, and I stand by what I said: for the majority of people it won't get better.

Personally, having lived in Germany now for so long, and seeing how a country can function in a more democratic and socially-competent manner, I think the best way for the UK to go - ultimately - would be to become a republic, set up a certain number of states with parliaments thus devolving power throughout the country and enabling people outside London to be more directly involved in policy making, etc.

I don't think Labour has achieved everything it may have set out to do, and an electorate always gets tired of any party in power too long - I can't see any way back for Labour at the moment.

Perhaps people in the UK should turn out in greater numbers at elections, be more aware of what a party's political policies are, involve themselves more in the making of policy at local and national party level, perhaps people should become more aware of the EU and what's good abut it and start demanding more democracy and transparency instead of just decrying things. The British are extremely lazy (in general) with regard to politics.

Anyway, I don't accept that there's no differences among the parties.
I have to get back to work now, otherwise I'll be in trouble with myself!

:thumbsup:

[Beefster]

He's going to dig his heels in but he must now be the weakest PM in decades, even worse than Major.

The Tories and Lib Dems must be praying that he toughs it out.

[Betty Boop]

Hoon is the latest to resign from the Cabinet. :rolleyes:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Hoon is the latest to resign from the Cabinet. :rolleyes:

Here's hoping (though not expecting) he's swapping Westminster for the Hague!

[Betty Boop]

Here's hoping (though not expecting) he's swapping Westminster for the Hague!:agree:

[hibsbollah]

I agree with Peejay, that despite it being tempting to say New Labour were just the same as the Tories, they did make some progressive changes to this country in terms of domestic policy; the New Deal was a success, skills and employment levels increased massively, and education and health got massive investment. There are millions more nursery places, and small changes that are barely mentioned like free entry into museums etc.

But being 'a little bit better than the Tories' isnt really good enough.

Brown is the political equivalent of Paatelainen last week; totally out of his depth, terrible at soundbites, incompetent, but stubbornly clinging onto power.

[Betty Boop]

Caroline Flint away now!

[hibsbollah]

Caroline Flint away now!

She was right up there with Hazel Blears for the 'most sycophantic government minister' award. I almost put my foot through the TV when she was on Question Time the other week.

Bye bye :bye:

[Betty Boop]

She was right up there with Hazel Blears for the 'most sycophantic government minister' award. I almost put my foot through the TV when she was on Question Time the other week.

Bye bye :bye:Glenys Kinnoch taking her place. Peter Mandelson back in the Cabinet and Alan Sugar joining the Government. :jamboak:

[hibsbollah]

Glenys Kinnoch taking her place. Peter Mandelson back in the Cabinet and Alan Sugar joining the Government. :jamboak:

None of whom have any mandate from the electorate:bitchy:

[Betty Boop]

None of whom have any mandate from the electorate:bitchy: 7 peers will be attending the Cabinet what a joke! :bitchy:

[Dashing Bob S]

Glenys Kinnoch taking her place. Peter Mandelson back in the Cabinet and Alan Sugar joining the Government. :jamboak:

That seems a sweet deal for the electorate.

[steakbake]

Seems like the poll is "this june" or "next june". I think over the summer, leading to a general election in October.

[Mibbes Aye]

The ever-entertaining Marina Hyde in today's Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/05/cabinet-gordon-brown-labour) - no Brownite for sure, but utterly scornful of the pygmies that constitute the Cabinet rebels, and the political spectrum in general:


the ex-Europe minister being a political thinker for whom the ­description "adequate" seems like outrageous flattery :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

He must have been embarrassed by the booing coming from the war veterans today.

[hibsbollah]

The ever-entertaining Marina Hyde in today's Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/05/cabinet-gordon-brown-labour) - no Brownite for sure, but utterly scornful of the pygmies that constitute the Cabinet rebels, and the political spectrum in general:

:greengrin

Its a very funny and accurate piece:agree: Whatever you may think of Mandelson, Hyde is right when she identifies him as the last real intellectual heavyweight left in the cabinet. Most of them are just empty vessels or, even worse, marketing people...

George Monbiot takes Blears apart earlier this year...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/10/hazel-blears-george-monbiot

[Hibbyradge]

Next. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8088862.stm)

What a mess.

[steakbake]

He's going to go. It will probably be tonight or tomorrow.

[hibiedude]

Like speaker Martin Brown will have to be removed from his post, Labour politicians have clearly had enough of Gordon Brown the last straw was the BNP result last night.

[lyonhibs]

Jesus effin' Christ. Labour got less than the UK Independence Party.

What an absolute shambles.

Brown must go, pronto or a vote of no-confidence (if the "Cabinet" are actually capable of joined up writing) will surely follow??

I'm instinctively a Labour man, but that is way beyond embarressing :bitchy:

[steakbake]

He's going to go. It will probably be tonight or tomorrow.

Revised: apparently, there were 2 cabinet ministers who were supposed to jump ship over the weekend but backed out.

He survives - for now, thanks to naked self interest and the fear of Labour MPs of losing their jobs, salaries, expenses and pensions.

It's not that Brown will change or the government will actually get a hold of things. He's not going to lead Labour to a general election victory and will quite possibly, inflict years of opposition for Labour if he stays. The bottom line is that he has cleverly manoevred the situation to mean that it is not in the self-interest of those who could knife him to do so.

He's a clever and devious operator.