plane lost in ocean storm

[oconnors_strip]

just read this on the bbc site, scary stuff!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

[scott7_0(Prague)]

just read this on the bbc site, scary stuff!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm

It is now being reported that it either exploded or broke up, the Brazilian ATC say it disappeared off the radar and confirmed that it did not drop below the radar!!

[Woody1985]

It is now being reported that it either exploded or broke up, the Brazilian ATC say it disappeared off the radar and confirmed that it did not drop below the radar!!

According to the BBC article it says that there's no radar coverage so far out to sea and the only communication they had was with high frequency radio.

On the way back from Tenerife last Wed morning (around 3amish) approaching Ireland (was landing in the weege) I experienced the worst turbelance I've had on a flight and it was pretty frigtening so can't imagine what it would be like actually going down.

The plane I was on was rocking around and I was right at the back and you can see the whole plane flexing like hell (although I appreciate it's designed to have some movement). I was taking comfort in the fact there's was two 50/60 year olds next to me who didn't seem too bothered then all of a sudden the place seemed to drop and all the TVs went off and all the lights went out then I heard to woman saying she's never experienced that before so I was flapping it. :LOL:

I wonder if this accident has anything to do with the inevitable cost cutting measures and short cuts that we'll see from the airlines during the recession.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

I wonder if this accident has anything to do with the inevitable cost cutting measures and short cuts that we'll see from the airlines during the recession.

No danger, there is a strict code of practice.

[blaikie]

5 Britons were on board according to the wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

[Mikey]

It's astonishing that in 2009 it's possible for a plane owned by one of the major airlines, on a regular scheduled flight, to just vanish.

There were a couple of instances of A330's (I think) falling out of the sky in their early days. It was a fault with the rudder and in each instance it locked up after going through turbulence. It hasn't happened again though since they got to the bottom of it.

It's going to take a while to get the answers for this one.

[Woody1985]

No danger, there is a strict code of practice.

People break rules. Especially when things start to get desperate, which they are in the airline industry just now.

I don't have any stats to back it up but I read that during a recession there is always in increase in the number of preventable disaster caused by the pressures on people.

[Jay]

It was reported that the last known contact was 5 hours before Paris decided to do anything. Surely thats not normal when a plane has reported a fault?

[scott7_0(Prague)]

People break rules. Especially when things start to get desperate, which they are in the airline industry just now.

I don't have any stats to back it up but I read that during a recession there is always in increase in the number of preventable disaster caused by the pressures on people.

Trust me Air France would not cut corners....


It was reported that the last known contact was 5 hours before Paris decided to do anything. Surely thats not normal when a plane has reported a fault?

The planes automatic computer reported a fault, that fault message was generic and can be anything from a fuse, bulbs blown to something serious but there is no way of knowing unless it is visual and verbal confirmation is given. Seems the message alert was major but the pilots for some reason were unable to respond. They are saying on the news a possible decompression of the aircraft could or would be the most likely answer to the lack of response.

[Jay]

Trust me Air France would not cut corners....



The planes automatic computer reported a fault, that fault message was generic and can be anything from a fuse, bulbs blown to something serious but there is no way of knowing unless it is visual and verbal confirmation is given. Seems the message alert was major but the pilots for some reason were unable to respond. They are saying on the news a possible decompression of the aircraft could or would be the most likely answer to the lack of response.

But would they still wait 5 hours then? The news is changing constantly on this and I have read a few varied reports throughout the day but I was just flabbergasted that it could possibly go 5 hours without contact while they knew there was a problem before they hit the panic button. I know the chances would be that nothing could be done considering the location but still......

[scott7_0(Prague)]

But would they still wait 5 hours then? The news is changing constantly on this and I have read a few varied reports throughout the day but I was just flabbergasted that it could possibly go 5 hours without contact while they knew there was a problem before they hit the panic button. I know the chances would be that nothing could be done considering the location but still......

I am sure as soon as the plane was missing form the radar the emergency procedures would have started, just because the report did not filter out to the worlds media until 5hours had passed, does not mean that the aviation authorities were not doing what was needed to be done!

[Steve-O]

They've gone through a worm hole and travelled back in time is my guess - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2458737/228-die-as-jet-crashes-in-storm.html

Strange story that? Not sure if all phones go straight to voicemail? I guess the phone might've survived??

[Woody1985]

Trust me Air France would not cut corners....


Fair enough.

[Woody1985]

I am sure as soon as the plane was missing form the radar the emergency procedures would have started, just because the report did not filter out to the worlds media until 5hours had passed, does not mean that the aviation authorities were not doing what was needed to be done!

It probably depends on the alerting system and the people managing it. I suspect that the fault will automatically be reported and placed in a queue with different status' e.g high, medium, low etc. IF no immediate action was taken the chances are that the persons managing the queue have failed to recognise the seriousness of the situation.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Fair enough.

Globespan, Jet2 or other low cost airlines using old jets may on the other hand.........

[Hibs Class]

I think last night's news report said that there isn't complete radar coverage of the Atlantic, so there's doubt about whether it was on radar and then disappeared or if it was between radar "zones". Because the automated message re an electrical failure could have related to something either innocuous or catastrophic there then needed to be atempts to contact by radio (which doesn't seem to have worked) and to then wait to see if the plane reappeared on radar, or actually turned up in Paris. It's all vague, which is also presumably why initial reports were that the plane was lost, before it then became reported as missing presumed crashed. Ultimately a tragedy.

[Woody1985]

Some development, it looks like they might have found the plane but won't reach the wreckage until tomorrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8079122.stm

[blaikie]

Some development, it looks like they might have found the plane but won't reach the wreckage until tomorrow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8079122.stm
On the bbc now that they might not even find the black box recorder. As they wreckage is up to 3,000m down
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8080669.stm

[Sylar]

You have to hope that the plane either blew up in mid-air, or that the compartment was de-pressurized before dropping, so that the passengers were already unconscious, so it would have been fast/they wouldn't have suffered.

I'm generally a very confident flyer, but stories like this make my blood chill :boo hoo:

[scott7_0(Prague)]

You have to hope that the plane either blew up in mid-air, or that the compartment was de-pressurized before dropping, so that the passengers were already unconscious, so it would have been fast/they wouldn't have suffered.

I'm generally a very confident flyer, but stories like this make my blood chill :boo hoo:

What he said, I really can't wait for my Jet2 flight back to Edinburgh in 3weeks, Jet2 operates a 15+year old 737..... fingers crossed !!

[Betty Boop]

Globespan, Jet2 or other low cost airlines using old jets may on the other hand.........
What about Thomas Cook? :panic:

[New Corrie]

What he said, I really can't wait for my Jet2 flight back to Edinburgh in 3weeks, Jet2 operates a 15+year old 737..... fingers crossed !!

A pal of mine flies 737's for a budget airline and he assures me that it's not the aircraft's condition/maintenance that should concern you, but the quality (or lack of) with the flight crew. I was astonished to find out that £80k will get you from having never flown, to piloting a 737. This seems to be attracting a few of the wrong types, as in reality, 80k isn't a lot if you're hellbent on being a pilot (regardless of whether it's the right job for you or not). You can imagine some of the one's that have done it this way, the "Daddy, I want to be a pilot and only need £80k" brigade.

When all's said and done, still would rather be on a Boeing than an Airbus.

[blaikie]

What he said, I really can't wait for my Jet2 flight back to Edinburgh in 3weeks, Jet2 operates a 15+year old 737..... fingers crossed !!
Long as the aircraft are maintained regularly and looked after well. They could go on for a long time. so no worry's :cool2:

[Sylar]

A pal of mine flies 737's for a budget airline and he assures me that it's not the aircraft's condition/maintenance that should concern you, but the quality (or lack of) with the flight crew. I was astonished to find out that £80k will get you from having never flown, to piloting a 737. This seems to be attracting a few of the wrong types, as in reality, 80k isn't a lot if you're hellbent on being a pilot (regardless of whether it's the right job for you or not). You can imagine some of the one's that have done it this way, the "Daddy, I want to be a pilot and only need £80k" brigade.

When all's said and done, still would rather be on a Boeing than an Airbus.


The condition has to play a major factor, surely. The aerodynamic stresses placed on such a lightweight structure is liable to cause the fibre shell to spinter, crack and bend. It's part of the reason that large passenger airliners are decommisioned after short periods of time. It's the major reason that Concorde no longer flies regularly, as the maintenance being required financially (in terms of material and working hours) simply wasn't worth the money being made.

Sadly, the aircraft industry relies on lightweight materials and continually improving engineering for the structural outlay to maintain its safety, and the consequence of using such materials is that they aren't going to support the mass and windslip velocities at such temperature variations experienced at cruising altitude.

[New Corrie]

The condition has to play a major factor, surely. The aerodynamic stresses placed on such a lightweight structure is liable to cause the fibre shell to spinter, crack and bend. It's part of the reason that large passenger airliners are decommisioned after short periods of time. It's the major reason that Concorde no longer flies regularly, as the maintenance being required financially (in terms of material and working hours) simply wasn't worth the money being made.

Sadly, the aircraft industry relies on lightweight materials and continually improving engineering for the structural outlay to maintain its safety, and the consequence of using such materials is that they aren't going to support the mass and windslip velocities at such temperature variations experienced at cruising altitude.


Indeed,my friend was pointing out that UK based fleets were generally pretty well maintained (even amongst the budget sector). I would have no probs going on one of Jet 2's ageing 737's. Where I would get twitchy, is boarding some ancient MD83 that has had 10 owners and ended up with some Greek charter company.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Indeed,my friend was pointing out that UK based fleets were generally pretty well maintained (even amongst the budget sector). I would have no probs going on one of Jet 2's ageing 737's. Where I would get twitchy, is boarding some ancient MD83 that has had 10 owners and ended up with some Greek charter company.

Yup, very true. but a little concerning when there is tape holding together parts of the interior and paper towel stuff into cracks to stop the condensation from falling on passengers.... buy hey ho... it is direct and cheap!

[Woody1985]

Is it possible to check the type of plane you'll be flying on prior to leaving?

I remember being on a huge plane when I was about ten. IIRC there was a row of 4 seats down the middle of the plane with 2 rows 3 seats either side so all in all there were ten seats across the plane (although it may have been 2x2 taking the total to 8.

That was when I went to Majorca about 12 years ago. It also had a big screen in the middle of the plane for films so I'm guessing it was some kind of long haul plane. Don't know why it was going to Majorca from Edinburgh though!

[Ants]

It was reported that the last known contact was 5 hours before Paris decided to do anything. Surely thats not normal when a plane has reported a fault?

There is an area across the Atlantic which has no radar cover.
The control centres then expect the plane to appear once back in the radar coverage.

[Ants]

Indeed,my friend was pointing out that UK based fleets were generally pretty well maintained (even amongst the budget sector). I would have no probs going on one of Jet 2's ageing 737's. Where I would get twitchy, is boarding some ancient MD83 that has had 10 owners and ended up with some Greek charter company.


Is it possible to check the type of plane you'll be flying on prior to leaving?

I remember being on a huge plane when I was about ten. IIRC there was a row of 4 seats down the middle of the plane with 2 rows 3 seats either side so all in all there were ten seats across the plane (although it may have been 2x2 taking the total to 8.

That was when I went to Majorca about 12 years ago. It also had a big screen in the middle of the plane for films so I'm guessing it was some kind of long haul plane. Don't know why it was going to Majorca from Edinburgh though!

Check out this site for details of the airline fleets, some old planes still flying around.. http://www.planespotters.net

I checked out the plane I was flying on a few years ago, it was 25 years old, but hey I lived to tell the tale.

[Removed]

Indeed,my friend was pointing out that UK based fleets were generally pretty well maintained (even amongst the budget sector). I would have no probs going on one of Jet 2's ageing 737's. Where I would get twitchy, is boarding some ancient MD83 that has had 10 owners and ended up with some Greek charter company.

:agree: I flew Aeroflot from Moscow to Delhi on a very old Ilyushin. Some of the seats weren't even completely bolted to the floor and it was the scariest few hours I have ever had :paranoid: but thankfully I lived to tell the tale.

Would never do it again though.

[hibee_girl]

Indeed,my friend was pointing out that UK based fleets were generally pretty well maintained (even amongst the budget sector). I would have no probs going on one of Jet 2's ageing 737's. Where I would get twitchy, is boarding some ancient MD83 that has had 10 owners and ended up with some Greek charter company.

:agree:

We were flying with some Spanish company last year and were just about to take off when some man on the runway stopped the plane

Turns out the plane was leaking fuel and it we had taken off, well we wouldn't have lasted long

[The Green Goblin]

A terrible story. I really feel awful for the people involved. I`m flying over in a few weeks. A bit spooked by the whole thing.

GG

[Jonnyboy]

A pal of mine flies 737's for a budget airline and he assures me that it's not the aircraft's condition/maintenance that should concern you, but the quality (or lack of) with the flight crew. I was astonished to find out that £80k will get you from having never flown, to piloting a 737. This seems to be attracting a few of the wrong types, as in reality, 80k isn't a lot if you're hellbent on being a pilot (regardless of whether it's the right job for you or not). You can imagine some of the one's that have done it this way, the "Daddy, I want to be a pilot and only need £80k" brigade.

When all's said and done, still would rather be on a Boeing than an Airbus.

I was recently in the company of a guy that was almost at the stage of being allowed to fly these big buggers. His 'Daddy' funded the training.

After five minutes in his company I decided I wouldn't even get on a bus if that guy was driving!

[--------]

I was recently in the company of a guy that was almost at the stage of being allowed to fly these big buggers. His 'Daddy' funded the training.

After five minutes in his company I decided I wouldn't even get on a bus if that guy was driving!


His name wasn't Biggles by any chance?

I have to say I don't fly at all. The very thought of getting on a plane starts me sweating. My wife and son have twice been to Canada on holiday - I stayed at home both times nd looked after the dog. My son flew to Bolvia and back - no problem - but I couldn't have done it.

One thing, though. When they fly, they fly regular airlines - American Airlines, Air Canada - not lines or budget lines. And they're under instructions to phone in as soon as they're on the ground.

I know all about the statistics. The trouble is that when one of those things goes down, it's usually a 100% wipe-out. No one walks away.

And in a lot of cases you must have 3/4 minutes or so to think about what's coming before you hit the ground....

As the old joke says, I'd prefer to die peacefully in my sleep like my old man did, not screaming and yelling in terror like the passengers in the plane he was supposed to be piloting.... :devil:

[RyeSloan]

The condition has to play a major factor, surely. The aerodynamic stresses placed on such a lightweight structure is liable to cause the fibre shell to spinter, crack and bend. It's part of the reason that large passenger airliners are decommisioned after short periods of time. It's the major reason that Concorde no longer flies regularly, as the maintenance being required financially (in terms of material and working hours) simply wasn't worth the money being made.

Sadly, the aircraft industry relies on lightweight materials and continually improving engineering for the structural outlay to maintain its safety, and the consequence of using such materials is that they aren't going to support the mass and windslip velocities at such temperature variations experienced at cruising altitude.

i'm not sure what you mean. Of course planes are made of lightweight materials that are put under stress but there is few crashes ever associated with air frame failures. The fact is that modern planes are made with much stronger but more lightweight materials than ever before.

Boeing 747's, probably the worlds most succesfull plane had a design life of 20 years and many have flown more than that, yet the saftey record is still pretty impressive.

I have flown Jet2 and was far from impressed at the nick of the plane but really most crashes are the result of poor maintenace or a series of human errors, not by windslip velocities. There is also an argument that an older, well maintained plane is actually extremely safe as the strict rules under which real or potential design flaws are found and rectified make these planes safer year on year.

Who knows what brought this flight down, sounds like a real tragedy. God knows what those people will have went through.

[Steve-O]

His name wasn't Biggles by any chance?

I have to say I don't fly at all. The very thought of getting on a plane starts me sweating. My wife and son have twice been to Canada on holiday - I stayed at home both times nd looked after the dog. My son flew to Bolvia and back - no problem - but I couldn't have done it.

One thing, though. When they fly, they fly regular airlines - American Airlines, Air Canada - not lines or budget lines. And they're under instructions to phone in as soon as they're on the ground.

I know all about the statistics. The trouble is that when one of those things goes down, it's usually a 100% wipe-out. No one walks away.

And in a lot of cases you must have 3/4 minutes or so to think about what's coming before you hit the ground....

As the old joke says, I'd prefer to die peacefully in my sleep like my old man did, not screaming and yelling in terror like the passengers in the plane he was supposed to be piloting.... :devil:

Not really. There have been many air crashes where there have been many survivors :agree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_disasters_by_death_toll#Avia tion

[lyonhibs]

3 days national mourning declared over here.

Not a shining piece of publicity for the usually excellent Air France.

[ScapeGoat]

A terrible story. I really feel awful for the people involved. I`m flying over in a few weeks. A bit spooked by the whole thing.

GG

Yes not so good my mother in law flew on the same scheduled flight last time she visited. That puts paid to my father in law ever coming over here again...
There but for the grace of god...

[Sylar]

It's now being reported that the debris they've found is NOT from the Airbus at all :confused:

Here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8083474.stm)

What a strange set of circumstances - the oil slick suggests that it hit the water, but surely you'd expect some sort of debris in proximity, as there's no way the aircraft would have gone straight into the water, even in a 100% 90 degree angle of incidence!

[Jay]

His name wasn't Biggles by any chance?

I have to say I don't fly at all. The very thought of getting on a plane starts me sweating. My wife and son have twice been to Canada on holiday - I stayed at home both times nd looked after the dog. My son flew to Bolvia and back - no problem - but I couldn't have done it.

One thing, though. When they fly, they fly regular airlines - American Airlines, Air Canada - not lines or budget lines. And they're under instructions to phone in as soon as they're on the ground.

I know all about the statistics. The trouble is that when one of those things goes down, it's usually a 100% wipe-out. No one walks away.

And in a lot of cases you must have 3/4 minutes or so to think about what's coming before you hit the ground....

As the old joke says, I'd prefer to die peacefully in my sleep like my old man did, not screaming and yelling in terror like the passengers in the plane he was supposed to be piloting.... :devil:

Doddie its well documented on here that I have a terrible fear of flying and spend about 6 months of the year worrying myself sick about the next flight I have to get on.Sleepless nights, palpitations, nightmares just to name a few of my 'symptoms' My oldest is even worse than me. I used to force myself just to get to where I really wanted to go but this year I decided a holiday at home was on the cards and I feel so much better for it. I think this incident has certainly grounded me for a few years.

[Woody1985]

Doddie its well documented on here that I have a terrible fear of flying and spend about 6 months of the year worrying myself sick about the next flight I have to get on.Sleepless nights, palpitations, nightmares just to name a few of my 'symptoms' My oldest is even worse than me. I used to force myself just to get to where I really wanted to go but this year I decided a holiday at home was on the cards and I feel so much better for it. I think this incident has certainly grounded me for a few years.

What about the thousands of flights every other day? I guess you don't want to drive your car because of car crashes that people die in? Or cross the road?

I appreciate that flying isn't a nice experience and is completely unnatural to us but if you start to think about things like this too much then you wouldn't go over the door.

I read an article about an agrophobic (I think that's the correct term) who wouldn't leave their house but was stung in the neck by a wasp that came in through the kitchen window and died. Made me think a bit!

[Jay]

What about the thousands of flights every other day? I guess you don't want to drive your car because of car crashes that people die in? Or cross the road?

I appreciate that flying isn't a nice experience and is completely unnatural to us but if you start to think about things like this too much then you wouldn't go over the door.

I read an article about an agrophobic (I think that's the correct term) who wouldn't leave their house but was stung in the neck by a wasp that came in through the kitchen window and died. Made me think a bit!

I know but when you have a true fear you cant rationalise it. I can talk the talk and have done on many an occassion to get my son on a plane but it doesn't dispel the fear I have. I dont drive either btw but I do cross the road.

[--------]

Not really. There have been many air crashes where there have been many survivors :agree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_disasters_by_death_toll#Avia tion




Now assumimg that this is accurate (and you never know with Wikipedia), it's a seriously uncheering and unencouraging list....

AND it doesn't list all that many survivors.

AND in one case at least (Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571), IIRC the 16 survivors were only survivors because they ATE the 17 folks who weren't survivors. This does not commend air travel to me. Airline food is reputed to be pretty bad, but it is an unacceptable alternative to be invited to eat the lady in seat 37B, even more so to be eaten by her.


Truthfully, there's an awful lot of crispy critter listed there....

I'm voting with Jill - holidays at home, stay on the ground.

[Steve-O]

Now assumimg that this is accurate (and you never know with Wikipedia), it's a seriously uncheering and unencouraging list....

AND it doesn't list all that many survivors.

AND in one case at least (Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571), IIRC the 16 survivors were only survivors because they ATE the 17 folks who weren't survivors. This does not commend air travel to me. Airline food is reputed to be pretty bad, but it is an unacceptable alternative to be invited to eat the lady in seat 37B, even more so to be eaten by her.


Truthfully, there's an awful lot of crispy critter listed there....

I'm voting with Jill - holidays at home, stay on the ground.

It made a good film though :greengrin

Well, maybe that was the wrong list since it's by death toll :greengrin

There have been a fair few with survivors and in fact most 'emergencies' in the air end with 100% survival, such as in the cases where Qantas were having an incident almost weekly last year!

Holidays at home are pesh :agree::duck:

[--------]

It made a good film though :greengrin

Well, maybe that was the wrong list since it's by death toll :greengrin

There have been a fair few with survivors and in fact most 'emergencies' in the air end with 100% survival, such as in the cases where Qantas were having an incident almost weekly last year!

Holidays at home are pesh :agree::duck:


Qantas were having weekly "incidents" last year????? :shocked:

What qualifies as an incident?

Drunk pilot?

Engine flame-out?

Bird strike?

Cabin de-pressurising?

Electrical failure?

Cockpit computer decides it's Terminator 2 and takes steps to kill everyone?

Tail falls off?

Titanic hitting that iceberg was an "incident", I'll bet.... :devil:


"There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"


:wink:

[Steve-O]

Qantas were having weekly "incidents" last year????? :shocked:

What qualifies as an incident?

Drunk pilot?

Engine flame-out?

Bird strike?

Cabin de-pressurising?

Electrical failure?

Cockpit computer decides it's Terminator 2 and takes steps to kill everyone?

Tail falls off?

Titanic hitting that iceberg was an "incident", I'll bet.... :devil:


"There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"


:wink:

On July 25, 2008, Qantas Flight 30, a Boeing 747-400 VH-OJK, on the leg from Hong Kong to Melbourne, suffered a rapid decompression[106] and made an emergency landing in Manila as a result of in-flight structural damage. There were no injuries. The ATSB officially stated that the incident was caused by the failure of an oxygen tank.[107][108][109]

On 7 October 2008, Qantas Flight 72, an Airbus A330-300 VH-QPA "Kununurra" travelling from Singapore to Perth, suffered a rapid loss of altitude in two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres causing serious injuries while 80 nautical miles from Learmonth, Australia. The aircraft safely landed in Learmonth, with 14 people requiring transportation by air ambulance to Perth. Another 30 people also required hospital treatment, while an additional 30 people had injuries not requiring hospital treatment.[110] Initial investigations identified an inertial reference system fault in the Number-1 Air Data Inertial Reference Unit as the likely origin of the event. On receiving false indication of a very high angle of attack, the flight control systems commanded a pitch down movement, reaching a maximum of 8.5 degrees pitch down

[--------]

On July 25, 2008, Qantas Flight 30, a Boeing 747-400 VH-OJK, on the leg from Hong Kong to Melbourne, suffered a rapid decompression[106] and made an emergency landing in Manila as a result of in-flight structural damage. There were no injuries. The ATSB officially stated that the incident was caused by the failure of an oxygen tank.[107][108][109]

On 7 October 2008, Qantas Flight 72, an Airbus A330-300 VH-QPA "Kununurra" travelling from Singapore to Perth, suffered a rapid loss of altitude in two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres causing serious injuries while 80 nautical miles from Learmonth, Australia. The aircraft safely landed in Learmonth, with 14 people requiring transportation by air ambulance to Perth. Another 30 people also required hospital treatment, while an additional 30 people had injuries not requiring hospital treatment.[110] Initial investigations identified an inertial reference system fault in the Number-1 Air Data Inertial Reference Unit as the likely origin of the event. On receiving false indication of a very high angle of attack, the flight control systems commanded a pitch down movement, reaching a maximum of 8.5 degrees pitch down



Steve - this isn't making me the very slightest little bit more likely to get on an aeroplane, mate - EVER.

These are not "events". These are bowel-emptying terror scenarios, participant in the likes of which I do not wish to be.

:devil:

[Woody1985]

I know but when you have a true fear you cant rationalise it. I can talk the talk and have done on many an occassion to get my son on a plane but it doesn't dispel the fear I have. I dont drive either btw but I do cross the road.

Fair enough. I know it's hard for people. On my most recent flight (described on on page one of this thread) I was ****ting myself but I know that if I want to go places like Tenerife etc it's the only real viable option for me. I'd rather be in a place than a boat, don't know why :confused:

I didn't meant to patronise with the cross the road comment btw, was just trying to put things into context how if you think too much about them then everything becomes difficult.

[Jay]

Fair enough. I know it's hard for people. On my most recent flight (described on on page one of this thread) I was ****ting myself but I know that if I want to go places like Tenerife etc it's the only real viable option for me. I'd rather be in a place than a boat, don't know why :confused:

I didn't meant to patronise with the cross the road comment btw, was just trying to put things into context how if you think too much about them then everything becomes difficult.

I didn't think you were being patronising. I know how easy it is to be flippant about these things. My youngest son is terrified of creepy crawlies and I get really frustrated with him as I have explained hundreds of times they wont hurt him and I cant see why he is scared. I dont let him see my frustration though. Then I see a mouse and I freak!

I love being abroad and would love to move to mainland Spain but I think we will have to find other ways to get there now.

[Sergio sledge]

His name wasn't Biggles by any chance?

I have to say I don't fly at all. The very thought of getting on a plane starts me sweating. My wife and son have twice been to Canada on holiday - I stayed at home both times nd looked after the dog. My son flew to Bolvia and back - no problem - but I couldn't have done it.

One thing, though. When they fly, they fly regular airlines - American Airlines, Air Canada - not lines or budget lines. And they're under instructions to phone in as soon as they're on the ground.

I know all about the statistics. The trouble is that when one of those things goes down, it's usually a 100% wipe-out. No one walks away.

And in a lot of cases you must have 3/4 minutes or so to think about what's coming before you hit the ground....

As the old joke says, I'd prefer to die peacefully in my sleep like my old man did, not screaming and yelling in terror like the passengers in the plane he was supposed to be piloting.... :devil:

95% of commercial aeroplane crashes have survivors actually.

"An aviation accident is roughly defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation Annex 13 as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, in which a person is fatally or seriously injured, the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure and/or the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible."

"For every billion kilometers traveled, trains have a fatality rate 12 times larger than air travel, while automobiles have a fatality rate 62 times larger."

I fly up to Orkney for work every couple of weeks, and despite the strong winds and regular bad weather, I've never even had so much as a "close shave." I guess like most phobias, the fear of flying is an irrational fear.

[Sergio sledge]

I love being abroad and would love to move to mainland Spain but I think we will have to find other ways to get there now.

You could try this: No chance of flight here...... (http://chasingthewind.net/Images/2005/4/ostrich.jpg) :greengrin

[shamo9]

I love being abroad and would love to move to mainland Spain but I think we will have to find other ways to get there now.



I'm voting with Jill - holidays at home, stay on the ground.

Why not take a little cruise? (http://www.scotlandscruisecentre.co.uk/)

It's fun... (http://reviews.ebay.com/WHY-TAKE-A-CRUISE-Top-10-Reasons-to-Take-a-Cruise_W0QQugidZ10000000001342815)

If you're still worried just take Rob Jones with you: He's indestructible, always believe in him...:flying:

[IWasThere2016]

It's now being reported that the debris they've found is NOT from the Airbus at all :confused:

Here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8083474.stm)

What a strange set of circumstances - the oil slick suggests that it hit the water, but surely you'd expect some sort of debris in proximity, as there's no way the aircraft would have gone straight into the water, even in a 100% 90 degree angle of incidence!

Bit like the plane that hit the Pentagon on 9/11 .. 75 feet wide but 16 foot hole and no debris ..

[Betty Boop]

Bit like the plane that hit the Pentagon on 9/11 .. 75 feet wide but 16 foot hole and no debris .. Are you into conspiracy theories? :greengrin

[--------]

95% of commercial aeroplane crashes have survivors actually.

"An aviation accident is roughly defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation Annex 13 as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, in which a person is fatally or seriously injured, the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure and/or the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible."

"For every billion kilometers traveled, trains have a fatality rate 12 times larger than air travel, while automobiles have a fatality rate 62 times larger."

I fly up to Orkney for work every couple of weeks, and despite the strong winds and regular bad weather, I've never even had so much as a "close shave." I guess like most phobias, the fear of flying is an irrational fear.


I do so appreciate all the concern being expressed by you guys, but with respect, I couldn't care less about the stats or the risk calculations or anything else.

Irrational or not, I have no inclination to get inside and aeroplane ever, and the only way I will is if either I'm fully sedated and know nothing about it, or if some kind benefactor were to offer me £10,000,000 as an incentive to overcome my fear.

(£10,000,000 - no less. And it would have to be safe in my bank account before departure. A SECRET bank account in Switzerland that only I had access to. I know my family.)

If God had intended me to fly, I'd have been born with the surname Bigglesworth. Or Von Richthofen.

There are 2 L's in "travelled", btw. :wink:

[Woody1985]

95% of commercial aeroplane crashes have survivors actually.

"An aviation accident is roughly defined in the Convention on International Civil Aviation Annex 13 as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, in which a person is fatally or seriously injured, the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure and/or the aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible."

"For every billion kilometers traveled, trains have a fatality rate 12 times larger than air travel, while automobiles have a fatality rate 62 times larger."

I fly up to Orkney for work every couple of weeks, and despite the strong winds and regular bad weather, I've never even had so much as a "close shave." I guess like most phobias, the fear of flying is an irrational fear.

I've seen that statistic before (don't know if the figures were exactly the same) but my issue with that statistic is that it takes less plane journeys to cover the same amount of distance. Therefore, if you have X thousand plane journeys to reach 1billion km you would need say x million car journeys. Thus meaning you may actually be more likely to be in a plane crash than a fatal car crash.

Perhaps my logic is flawed but it makes sense to me! E.g you could be on 1 of 40,000 plane journeys and crash. Wheras you'd have to be in a situation where you were involved in a fatal car crash from say 1 in 20,000,000 journeys. Does that make sense?

Although you have to take into consider other factors such as the safety precautions of the aviation industry against some guy drunk in a car (no jokes about pilots please!).

[RyeSloan]

I've seen that statistic before (don't know if the figures were exactly the same) but my issue with that statistic is that it takes less plane journeys to cover the same amount of distance. Therefore, if you have X thousand plane journeys to reach 1billion km you would need say x million car journeys. Thus meaning you may actually be more likely to be in a plane crash than a fatal car crash.

Perhaps my logic is flawed but it makes sense to me! E.g you could be on 1 of 40,000 plane journeys and crash. Wheras you'd have to be in a situation where you were involved in a fatal car crash from say 1 in 20,000,000 journeys. Does that make sense?

Although you have to take into consider other factors such as the safety precautions of the aviation industry against some guy drunk in a car (no jokes about pilots please!).

Fact is that despite the dangers invloved air travel is safe. It's safe for a lot of reasons but there are two that stand out:

1) Regulation

The aviation industry is probably the most regulated in the world. These regulations cover from the quality of the spare parts to the maintenace schedules to the design requirements to crash investigation and action to stop similar events.

2) Proof is in the pudding

The stats cannot be denied, for miles covered and flights completed the record of flying is second to none....also you can have a passenger jet with no power glide hundreds of miles, it takes a significant error to down a plane yet it takes a seconds distraction to crash a car.

Next time you are on a motorway look at the traffic going in the opposite direction and think of the trust and lack of influence you have on every car that speeds off in the opposite direction then realise that each and every one has the potential to wipe you out without you having any say in the matter.....when you have truely considered that tell me what seems the most likley to end your days, flying or driving.

[Steve-O]

I do so appreciate all the concern being expressed by you guys, but with respect, I couldn't care less about the stats or the risk calculations or anything else.

Irrational or not, I have no inclination to get inside and aeroplane ever, and the only way I will is if either I'm fully sedated and know nothing about it, or if some kind benefactor were to offer me £10,000,000 as an incentive to overcome my fear.

(£10,000,000 - no less. And it would have to be safe in my bank account before departure. A SECRET bank account in Switzerland that only I had access to. I know my family.)

If God had intended me to fly, I'd have been born with the surname Bigglesworth. Or Von Richthofen.

There are 2 L's in "travelled", btw. :wink:

You're missing out on the big wide world :agree:

Flying is easy, I actually like going on planes, but each to their own!

[--------]

You're missing out on the big wide world :agree:

Flying is easy, I actually like going on planes, but each to their own!



I'll get by. :greengrin

[MSK]

I'll get by. :greengrinI was like you Doddie, never would ye get me anywhere near a plane ....until my wife decided to take me to the massive car park at Ingliston where we would sit right at the fence & watch planes taking off & landing ..after a few times of visiting & watching the planes i finally decided to give it a bash ...my first flight was to Santa Ponsa in Majorca 18 years ago & since then Majorca another 3 times ..Tenerife once ..Turkey 3 times (4th come August) & Dublin 4 times ..

I actually love flying now, ...ye know what ..im more paranoid about sitting upstairs in a double decker bus ever since i was in the hibs bus that toppled at Bridge of Earn on our way to Dundee than i am of flying ...

Gie it a bash man ...:thumbsup:

[hibee_girl]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Air-France-Plane-Crash-Bodies-And-Debris-Found-From-Aircraft-In-Atlantic/Article/200906115297408?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15297408_Air_France_Plane_Crash%3A_Bod ies_And_Debris_Found_From_Aircraft_In_Atlantic

Two bodies have been found

[Woody1985]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Air-France-Plane-Crash-Bodies-And-Debris-Found-From-Aircraft-In-Atlantic/Article/200906115297408?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15297408_Air_France_Plane_Crash%3A_Bod ies_And_Debris_Found_From_Aircraft_In_Atlantic

Two bodies have been found

Good news. Will bring some closure for some people.

Great credit to the search teams as well. It must be extremely difficult to find someone in a space that size. Even using predictions of the currents and possible crash area etc it's a great ask.

[Chuckie]

Clearly it was a bomb on board... ?

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Clearly it was a bomb on board... ?

Clearly why, what evidence has been presented for you to come to that conclusion?

[Sergio sledge]

I do so appreciate all the concern being expressed by you guys, but with respect, I couldn't care less about the stats or the risk calculations or anything else.

Irrational or not, I have no inclination to get inside and aeroplane ever, and the only way I will is if either I'm fully sedated and know nothing about it, or if some kind benefactor were to offer me £10,000,000 as an incentive to overcome my fear.

(£10,000,000 - no less. And it would have to be safe in my bank account before departure. A SECRET bank account in Switzerland that only I had access to. I know my family.)

If God had intended me to fly, I'd have been born with the surname Bigglesworth. Or Von Richthofen.

There are 2 L's in "travelled", btw. :wink:

I now have this picture of Doddie in my head: I ain't gettin' on no plane, fool.... (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/neald123/Mr_T.jpg) :greengrin

[--------]

I now have this picture of Doddie in my head: I ain't gettin' on no plane, fool.... (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/neald123/Mr_T.jpg) :greengrin


Right haircut - wrong skin tone. :devil:

I was watching BBC4 late on last night - a very interesting documentary about that Uruguayan Air Force crash in the Andes.

An amazing story.

But it hasn't changed my mind....