MSPs claim expenses for remembrance wreaths

[Tomsk]

I absolutely despair:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Anger-as-MSPs-claim-poppies.5315118.jp

Is there no end to their pettiness?

[Future17]

I can see both sides of this one to be honest.

If you're invited to a function as a representative of an organisation, you wouldn't expect to incur personal expenses.

[Woody1985]

I can see both sides of this one to be honest.

If you're invited to a function as a representative of an organisation, you wouldn't expect to incur personal expenses.

I can see both points as well but the cheeky *******s wouldn't be working in the democracy if those people hadn't have died for our country. Inconsiderate, petty, sleazy little *****.

[(((Fergus)))]

Is laying a wreath part of their work?

If so, they should be allowed to claim expenses.

If not, get them to **** with their false compassion.

[hibsbollah]

i'm sure its part of their official duties....

All this witchhunting is getting ridiculous to be honest. Theres no proper scrutiny of all these accusations, the press know all they need to do is publish and the public dont want to know the details, they just want blood.:chop:

[CropleyWasGod]

I can see both points as well but the cheeky *******s wouldn't be working in the democracy if those people hadn't have died for our country. Inconsiderate, petty, sleazy little *****.

If they are laying a wreath on my behalf, I have no problem in sharing the cost. And, according to the weekend papers, they aren't cheap.

[Tomsk]

If they are laying a wreath on my behalf, I have no problem in sharing the cost. And, according to the weekend papers, they aren't cheap.

From the Evening News:

The claims by Midlothian Labour MSP Rhona Brankin for £42.60 and Livingston SNP MSP Angela Constance for £17.80 were uncovered when the Scottish Parliament published the latest breakdown of members' expenses payouts.

Would you regard £42.60 and £17.80 as expensive?

Expensive or otherwise I think the cost is irrelevant. They are not laying a wreath on your behalf but because they feel it's the done thing to do. Why can I say with such confidence? Because they claimed back the cost on expenses.

If I were laying a wreath I wouldn't expect anyone to share the cost and I can't imagine what would lead me to think it's something I could claim back in expenses.

[Andy74]

They've all gone a bit quiet on greedy bankers haven't they?

[Future17]

Expensive or otherwise I think the cost is irrelevant. They are not laying a wreath on your behalf but because they feel it's the done thing to do. Why can I say with such confidence? Because they claimed back the cost on expenses.

If I were laying a wreath I wouldn't expect anyone to share the cost and I can't imagine what would lead me to think it's something I could claim back in expenses.

Surely the fact that they claimed it back on expenses means that they did consider it to be part of their job?

As much as we may not like it some times, being an elected representative means that MSP's actions in an offical capacity are done on our behalf.

You could argue that considering it to be part of the job and not a personal choice makes their personal beliefs questionable but I don't think this is anything even close to the other expense relevations regards mortgages, moat cleaning, landscaping etc which have nothing to do with MP's or MSP's job role.

[Mibbes Aye]

I read that one MP had made an expenses claim for the work on filling in his expenses claim :bitchy:

[CropleyWasGod]

If I were laying a wreath I wouldn't expect anyone to share the cost and I can't imagine what would lead me to think it's something I could claim back in expenses.

But you would probably be doing it out of your own conscience, and in a personal capacity. They were doing it in their official capacity, as our elected representatives, because it was expected of them in that capacity.

On the scale of the expense, I note that "Helen Eadie claimed the most, at £170.42, to cover wreaths for different villages in her Dunfermline East constituency." I don't see why she should have to fork out more than a city MP, for example, just because she has more villages to serve.

[s.a.m]

MPs / MSPs lay wreaths at local remembrance services on behalf of their parliament. They attend in an official capacity as parliamentary representives. Sickening as some of the other revelations have been, I'm not seeing what the problem is with these wreaths being claimed for.

Perhaps a tidier solution would be for the parliament to pay the poppy people for a job-lot of wreaths, and distribute them to MSPs for their local services.

[Tomsk]

Surely the fact that they claimed it back on expenses means that they did consider it to be part of their job?

As much as we may not like it some times, being an elected representative means that MSP's actions in an offical capacity are done on our behalf.

You could argue that considering it to be part of the job and not a personal choice makes their personal beliefs questionable but I don't think this is anything even close to the other expense relevations regards mortgages, moat cleaning, landscaping etc which have nothing to do with MP's or MSP's job role.

What gets me is just how petty the claim is. Maybe I'm different but if I was an elected official invited to a remembrance ceremony I would buy a wreath to pay my respects and wouldn't even think about making a claim for it even if I did feel I was representing my constituents at the event. The gesture would be mine, personal, touching and it would lose all that if I were claiming the cost back.

I find the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. I would say to them, if you can't attend a remembrance ceremony without calculating the cost don't go at all. You don't deserve to be there.

Vuck me! They can't even dig into their own pockets for £20 and £40. Where does it end? Do they claim for buying a poppy? Or putting a £1 in a charity tin?

[Andy74]

What gets me is just how petty the claim is. Maybe I'm different but if I was an elected official invited to a remembrance ceremony I would buy a wreath to pay my respects and wouldn't even think about making a claim for it even if I did feel I was representing my constituents at the event. The gesture would be mine, personal, touching and it would lose all that if I were claiming the cost back.

I find the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. I would say to them, if you can't attend a remembrance ceremony without calculating the cost don't go at all. You don't deserve to be there.

Vuck me! They can't even dig into their own pockets for £20 and £40. Where does it end? Do they claim for buying a poppy? Or putting a £1 in a charity tin?



I disagree, it all adds up when they get invited to a number of these things. The personal, and touching line is all very well, maybe once or twice and that's for them to consider in their own time. We don't have details of what they've done personally.

They are attending in an official capacity and as such are entitled to claim for these things.

There are plenty things wrong with what they've been claiming but for me this isn't one of them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Vuck me! They can't even dig into their own pockets for £20 and £40. Where does it end? Do they claim for buying a poppy? Or putting a £1 in a charity tin?

...or £170 for Helen Eadie?

[Tomsk]

I disagree, it all adds up when they get invited to a number of these things. The personal, and touching line is all very well, maybe once or twice and that's for them to consider in their own time. We don't have details of what they've done personally.

They are attending in an official capacity and as such are entitled to claim for these things.

There are plenty things wrong with what they've been claiming but for me this isn't one of them.

However, it would appear the MSPs agree with me as they are paying back the expenses claimed.

[Tomsk]

...or £170 for Helen Eadie?

I would suggest if she cannot afford that exhorbitant sum she respectfully declines the invitation.

[CropleyWasGod]

I would suggest if she cannot afford that exhorbitant sum she respectfully declines the invitation.

"MSP snubs Remembrance Day service"..... sure she will.

Image and perception are important aspects of being an MP or MSP. Regrettable, but true. That is why they will always attend the services, and that is why they are repaying the expenses.... they do not want to be tarred with the same brush as their counterparts in Westminster.

I would far rather that they had refused to hand the money back, and had a proper, serious debate about the issue. It is their kow-towing to public misinformation that is the sin here, IMHO.

[Andy74]

However, it would appear the MSPs agree with me as they are paying back the expenses claimed.

That doesn't mean they agree with you at all. This has now got a bit silly and thay are under pressure to do this, whether they believe it or not.

I even have some sympathy for the guy who claimed back the money he had to put in a church collection on an official visit. Why should they pay out their own pocket for things they have to do for their work?

[Tomsk]

"MSP snubs Remembrance Day service"..... sure she will.

Image and perception are important aspects of being an MP or MSP. Regrettable, but true. That is why they will always attend the services, and that is why they are repaying the expenses.... they do not want to be tarred with the same brush as their counterparts in Westminster.

I would far rather that they had refused to hand the money back, and had a proper, serious debate about the issue. It is their kow-towing to public misinformation that is the sin here, IMHO.

Which underlines my point that the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. In my opinion, the MSP should be reviewing the reason why she is there in the first place if she feels the need to claim back the expenses. And we, the public, should be questioning the true value of her presence there. I for one would be deeply uncomfortable if I thought she was there only because she felt duty bound to attend.

The MSPs have not been ready to make a small personal monetary contribution which would demonstrate their respect to the men and women of the country who made the ultimate personal sacrifice. Rather, they are, if I am reading you right, balancing their personal conscience against the paltry sums they have had to find out of their own pocket.

Anyway, I think we have both made our points of view and this is getting a bit circular so I will respectfully leave it there.

[CropleyWasGod]

Which underlines my point that the whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. In my opinion, the MSP should be reviewing the reason why she is there in the first place if she feels the need to claim back the expenses. And we, the public, should be questioning the true value of her presence there. I for one would be deeply uncomfortable if I thought she was there only because she felt duty bound to attend.

The MSPs have not been ready to make a small personal monetary contribution which would demonstrate their respect to the men and women of the country who made the ultimate personal sacrifice. Rather, they are, if I am reading you right, balancing their personal conscience against the paltry sums they have had to find out of their own pocket.

Anyway, I think we have both made our points of view and this is getting a bit circular so I will respectfully leave it there.

Circular? How very dare you??

Square, please.

:devil:

[hibsbollah]

However, it would appear the MSPs agree with me as they are paying back the expenses claimed.

No, theyve been told to pay anything and anything back by their chief whips/party aparatchiks, because everyone is scared ****less of the newspapers.

We need another politician like Stanley Baldwin to come on the scene and take on the newspapers' and their total power without responsibility, 'the prerogative of the harlot'...

[horseman]

No, theyve been told to pay anything and anything back by their chief whips/party aparatchiks, because everyone is scared ****less of the newspapers.

We need another politician like Stanley Baldwin to come on the scene and take on the newspapers' and their total power without responsibility, 'the prerogative of the harlot'...


oh aye , censor the press ? thats democracy for you eh !

if it weren't for the press ali baba and his 649 theives would still be at it

without a free press would we could end up just like zimbabwe ?

or something