Has the country gone to ruin?

[Hibbyradge]

I seem to recall major prophesies of doom for the countryside when the Fox Hunting bill was being passed.

Did it happen?

[Flynn]

The toffs wouldn't notice I'd guess. They are far too busy having sex with their cousins. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Theres a loophole in the bill, so they still hunt despite the legislation.

[Green Mikey]

I seem to recall major prophesies of doom for the countryside when the Fox Hunting bill was being passed.

Did it happen?


Theres a loophole in the bill, so they still hunt despite the legislation.

I think they now chase the fox with the hounds and before they get their paws on it, some boy shoots the fox. Sounds like loads of fun...

[New Corrie]

My main objection to the Bill was the amount of time and money it took to implement. It's a priorities issue. This government has been hellbent on gimmick politics and banning things that aren't really of any huge importance. Meanwhile the country falls to bits. I am sure all these people getting their houses reposessed and losing their jobs can sleep well knowing that fox hunting has been banned.

[steakbake]

My main objection to the Bill was the amount of time and money it took to implement. It's a priorities issue. This government has been hellbent on gimmick politics and banning things that aren't really of any huge importance. Meanwhile the country falls to bits. I am sure all these people getting their houses reposessed and losing their jobs can sleep well knowing that fox hunting has been banned.

Not often we agree, CG, but yes. It was a gimmick and a sop to Labour's urban core voters.

What practical problem did it solve? It stopped hunting for people identified as "landed" or "posh". What was the effect? Not very much. A number of people in the countryside lost their jobs. People still hunt, but it made Labour's core vote think it was one in the eye for the rich/upper class.

Gesture politics at it's most crude, I'm afraid. A bit like the 50p tax.

[Hibbyradge]

Not often we agree, CG, but yes. It was a gimmick and a sop to Labour's urban core voters.

What practical problem did it solve? It stopped hunting for people identified as "landed" or "posh". What was the effect? Not very much. A number of people in the countryside lost their jobs. People still hunt, but it made Labour's core vote think it was one in the eye for the rich/upper class.

Gesture politics at it's most crude, I'm afraid. A bit like the 50p tax.

Whether or not it was populist gesture politics, is open to debate, but it was still right to ban fox hunting which was/is cruel and unnecessary.

It may not be an important issue to you, but it is to many.

[Tazio]

How many people lost their jobs because of the hunting ban? This was always the threat wielded by the pro hunt lobby but I've never seen any accurate figures. And how does the figure compare to, for example, the amount of people who lost their jobs due to privatisation of publication of Lothian Regional Transport.

[New Corrie]

Whether or not it was populist gesture politics, is open to debate, but it was still right to ban fox hunting which was/is cruel and unnecessary.

It may not be an important issue to you, but it is to many.


I agree it was right to ban it, I cant stand any form of cruelty to animals. It just became very time consuming and expensive to implement. I feel parliamentry time could have been spent on more important issues. It was the most hypocritical bill ever, if it was all about animal cruelty, why didn't they ban National Hunt Horse Racing?

I take it for some consistancy you would be happy to see National Hunt Horse Racing and Fishing banned aswell?

[steakbake]

Whether or not it was populist gesture politics, is open to debate, but it was still right to ban fox hunting which was/is cruel and unnecessary.

It may not be an important issue to you, but it is to many.

I'm not a fan of hunting at all but as I say the practical effect of the ban is not how it was billed.

It is smoke and mirrors. Hunting still continues just by a different way of doing it. However, we all sleep soundly at night thinking that the Labour government banned it.

[Betty Boop]

The Tories will repeal the ban, when they win the General Election next year. :bitchy:

[steakbake]

The Tories will repeal the ban, when they win the General Election next year. :bitchy:

...in order to attract votes in rural areas.

Foxes are still being hunted, pre and post this ban. It's just the way it is done is different.

[Betty Boop]

...in order to attract votes in rural areas.

Foxes are still being hunted, pre and post this ban. It's just the way it is done is different.
:agree:

[ancient hibee]

More foxes being killed than ever only now they don't have the same chance to get away as it's obviously easier to shoot them-perhaps we should be hunting politicians instead.

[Hibbyradge]

I agree it was right to ban it, I cant stand any form of cruelty to animals. It just became very time consuming and expensive to implement. I feel parliamentry time could have been spent on more important issues. It was the most hypocritical bill ever, if it was all about animal cruelty, why didn't they ban National Hunt Horse Racing?

I take it for some consistancy you would be happy to see National Hunt Horse Racing and Fishing banned aswell?

I'd be perfectly happy if they were banned. Same with speedway and curling, actually. :wink:

However, unlike fox hunting, the primary object of horse racing and fishing isn't cruelty and death.

[LeithWalkHibby]

Unlike fox hunting, the primary object of horse racing and fishing isn't cruelty and death.

I doubt that's much consolation to the horse with the screens round it, or the fish with the hook in its gob.

[(((Fergus)))]

I'd be perfectly happy if they were banned. Same with speedway and curling, actually. :wink:

However, unlike fox hunting, the primary object of horse racing and fishing isn't cruelty and death.

The primary object of fox hunting is getting rid of foxes. Not something I agree with actually, as they do a good job of killing livestock that isn't fit for human consumption. Over the years, as people tend to do, country people have developed a bit of "culture" around it. Same goes for deer stalking and pheasant shooting. People could easily live on fruit and vegetables yet these sports are allowed.

As for farmed animals, the majority spend their lives in "cruel" (unnatural/drugged) conditions, as I've seen first hand working in poultry units, etc.

As for the Labour law, it was just another two fingers to the "toffs" (of whom the "oiks" are just jealous anyway).

[Tazio]

The primary object of fox hunting is getting rid of foxes. Not something I agree with actually, as they do a good job of killing livestock that isn't fit for human consumption. Over the years, as people tend to do, country people have developed a bit of "culture" around it. Same goes for deer stalking and pheasant shooting. People could easily live on fruit and vegetables yet these sports are allowed.

As for farmed animals, the majority spend their lives in "cruel" (unnatural/drugged) conditions, as I've seen first hand working in poultry units, etc.

As for the Labour law, it was just another two fingers to the "toffs" (of whom the "oiks" are just jealous anyway).

I've been fox hunting. Two of us, a rifle and a powerful torch. We didn't need loads of horses and red jackets, little horns and loads of dogs.

[steakbake]

I've been fox hunting. Two of us, a rifle and a powerful torch. We didn't need loads of horses and red jackets, little horns and loads of dogs.

Exactly.

[New Corrie]

I've been fox hunting. Two of us, a rifle and a powerful torch. We didn't need loads of horses and red jackets, little horns and loads of dogs.


Gun wielding Yam on the loose alert! Unless you are a farmer protecting livestock....Why would anyone want to shoot an animal??? It's like those dregs that fire airguns at family pets.....never understood it. I had a neighbour who said if any of my cats ventured into his garden, he would shoot them....to which my retort was...forever more I will hope/pray that someone shoots you or one of your loved ones....complete lowlife.

[Tazio]

Gun wielding Yam on the loose alert! Unless you are a farmer protecting livestock....Why would anyone want to shoot an animal??? It's like those dregs that fire airguns at family pets.....never understood it. I had a neighbour who said if any of my cats ventured into his garden, he would shoot them....to which my retort was...forever more I will hope/pray that someone shoots you or one of your loved ones....complete lowlife.

On a farm in lambing season. I don't believe in hunting as a fun pastime, it was done to protect livestock as you say.

[Hibbyradge]

The primary object of fox hunting is getting rid of foxes.

You are mistaken.

The primary oblect is human entertainment.

In case you're interested;

In an average fox hunting season:

Foxes killed: 15,000 (36% by digging up by terriermen)
Humans killed (in accidents): 3
Pups and hounds killed: 6,000
Veterinary fees for horses: £15 million
Injuries to hounds: 1,000
Injuries to those on foot (including sabs): 500
Total blood spilled: 1 ton plus
Policing costs (paid by taxpayers): Over £1 million.


A Bad Press

Scarcely 25 years ago, farmers and hunters had us believe the badger and the otter were 'vermin' and needed to be controlled. Everyone now knows this was nonsense: both species are now protected by the law. There is no reason why the same courtesy should not be extended to the fox.

No Threat

Neither the Minister of Agriculture nor the National Farmers' Union considers the fox to be a significant threat to agriculture. In an age of battery farms, when few foxes know what a chicken looks like, and when reputable scientific studies have shown only a tiny minority of foxes take live lambs, this is unsurprising.

In fact, the most common complaint against foxes today is that of digging and fouling in urban gardens. This is a minor nuisance - one that hardly calls for the death penalty, and it is quite easily overcome.

Fox Hunting - The Facts

Foxes are at the top of their food chain. Their population has never been controlled by natural predators. Man and his dogs are the only predators which have ever chased foxes over long distances.

Weak, injured or lost cubs could have been taken by eagles of wolves but these animals would never have become part of the breeding stock, so such losses would have very little effect on overall fox population density.
Foxes are not significant predators of farm livestock

Foxes are highly adaptable and live mostly on earthworms, rodents, rabbits and carrion. For this reason foxes are of positive benefit to most farmers.

Foxes are expert scavengers which is why they have been so effective in establishing urban fox populations. Foxes will prey on ground nesting birds but rarely on lambs.

Post-mortem evidence has demonstrated that lambs taken by foxes are likely to be either already dead or weak, non viable lambs.

According to MAFF, predation of foxes on lambs is nationally 'insignificant'. Studies show that lamb losses are between 10% and 24% from hypothermia, malnutrition or disease, but even sheep farmers only claim that only 0.5% are due to foxes.

Hunting does not control fox populations

Hunts kill around 20,000 foxes a year, but this is only 3% of the fox population.

The fox population is governed by the year round availability of food in defended territories.

Where foxes are persecuted by humans more cubs are produced to restore their population levels.

Studies in Europe have shown that fox populations can survive losses of up to 70% and still recover fully in the following year.

Where foxes are killed this merely created a vacant territory which will be quickly filled by other foxes.

Hunting is cruel by design

Foxhounds are bred to run more slowly than the fox to sustain a good chase. The fox will outrun the hounds initially until it is exhausted and overtaken by the hounds.

Many foxes escape by hiding in fox earths or badger setts and will be dealt with by the terrier men.

Hounds do not kill foxes instantly with a 'nip to the back of the neck'. Canids do not kill in this way but rather tend to bring down their prey by a series of bites and tears to their quarry. The League has obtained post-mortem evidence from veterinary surgeons to support that this is how foxes recovered by League monitors have died.