Dear String 'Em Up Brigade

[Phil D. Rolls]

There's been two or three people let out of jail in the last month, that would have been hanged if we still have the death penalty. Turns out they were put away because the polis made stuff up about them.

What do you think about that?

[Gus]

Shocking that this happens & makes you think how many other times it has taken place in our "justice" system??? But probably makes a good arguement on why we DONT have the death penalty in this country.

We can look over to the GREAT nation :cool2: across the pond to see how its flawed in sooo many ways.

Although it does serve a purpose in some cases. Like in the case of the girl who got raped in Edinburgh & they caught the two guys. (someone has handed out the death penalty to one of them)

[Phil D. Rolls]

Shocking that this happens & makes you think how many other times it has taken place in our "justice" system??? But probably makes a good arguement on why we DONT have the death penalty in this country.

We can look over to the GREAT nation :cool2: across the pond to see how its flawed in sooo many ways.

That's the way I see it. It's just that whenever there is a murder or rape or whatever, this board is full of people saying that the accused should be hanged etc.

With such a high interest in justice around, I'm astounded that no-one has thought to discuss these miscarriages, and come forward and say that their thinking (is this right) might have been wrong. Strange, strange, strange. :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Shocking that this happens & makes you think how many other times it has taken place in our "justice" system??? But probably makes a good arguement on why we DONT have the death penalty in this country.

We can look over to the GREAT nation :cool2: across the pond to see how its flawed in sooo many ways.

Although it does serve a purpose in some cases. Like in the case of the girl who got raped in Edinburgh & they caught the two guys. (someone has handed out the death penalty to one of them)

You talking about the guy who died in Saughton on Sunday? If so, 1. he was awaiting trial, and hadn't been found guilty yet. 2. police say there were no suspicious circumstances.... ie he probably killed himself.

[Woody1985]

I think these issues were discussed at length on the death penalty poll. I think I also made references to them on a thread about 2/3 days ago.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You talking about the guy who died in Saughton on Sunday? If so, 1. he was awaiting trial, and hadn't been found guilty yet. 2. police say there were no suspicious circumstances.... ie he probably killed himself.

No, the one that springs to mind is the guy last week who had done a year for a robbery he didn't commit, and there was also a bloke in England who was freed as he had been sent down for murder, but the evidence was flawed.

My point is that there can be no argument for the death penalty when there are so many miscarriages of justice. Yet whenever there is a murder this board is full of people frothing at the mouth, saying the guy getting the blame needs hanging, and that they would happily do it themselves.

People need to think harder, and the lack of any debate or even outcry when these miscarriages are brought to light suggests to me that too many people react to bad crimes in a knee jerk response.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry, FR, my question wasn't directed at you.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry, FR, my question wasn't directed at you.

Sorry, should have read your post correctly. :thumbsup:

[Jonnyboy]

No, the one that springs to mind is the guy last week who had done a year for a robbery he didn't commit, and there was also a bloke in England who was freed as he had been sent down for murder, but the evidence was flawed.

My point is that there can be no argument for the death penalty when there are so many miscarriages of justice. Yet whenever there is a murder this board is full of people frothing at the mouth, saying the guy getting the blame needs hanging, and that they would happily do it themselves.

People need to think harder, and the lack of any debate or even outcry when these miscarriages are brought to light suggests to me that too many people react to bad crimes in a knee jerk response.

I agree with you FR but for one exception. A case like that of Thomas Hamilton - had he not taken his own life then I feel his life should have been taken from him if you follow my drift. Effectively a case where there was no dubiety regarding guilt :agree:

[LiverpoolHibs]

I agree with you FR but for one exception. A case like that of Thomas Hamilton - had he not taken his own life then I feel his life should have been taken from him if you follow my drift. Effectively a case where there was no dubiety regarding guilt :agree:

Apart from the moral objections I have to the death penalty being applied to any criminal, in any civil law (for want of a better phrase) case; I don't see how it could ever be possible to legislate for cases such as that alone.

[Jonnyboy]

Apart from the moral objections I have to the death penalty being applied to any criminal, in any civil law (for want of a better phrase) case; I don't see how it could ever be possible to legislate for cases such as that alone.

I don't disagree to be honest. All I guess I was trying to point out was that there are cases where there's been no miscarriage of justice and if any were ever to be considered fitting for the death penalty then the Thomas Hamilton one might fit that bill.

I am against the death penalty but I can understand why in some cases there are supporters for its return

[greenlex]

There's been two or three people let out of jail in the last month, that would have been hanged if we still have the death penalty. Turns out they were put away because the polis made stuff up about them.

What do you think about that?

String the polis up.

Do you think the Polis would do this if the guy's they were framing or embelishing evidence against or whatever were going to die? If so then they really should be strung up. Wouldn't help retrospectively but in these cases the Polis are worse than the accused. They have the publics trust. Let em swing. :agree:

[--------]

String the polis up.

Do you think the Polis would do this if the guy's they were framing or embelishing evidence against or whatever were going to die? If so then they really should be strung up. Wouldn't help retrospectively but in these cases the Polis are worse than the accused. They have the publics trust. Let em swing. :agree:


There's absolutely no doubt that the police did on occasion tamper with evidence or quite deliberately not follow up particular lines of enquiry while the death penalty was in place.

Timothy Evans, for example, was hanged for the murder of his baby daughter in March 1950. The main witness against him was John Christie, who was later found guilty of the murder of his own wife, Ethel Christie.

After his conviction Christie confessed to the killing of Beryl Evans and five other women whose bodies were found in and around his house at 10 Rillington Place. Although there has been no formal appeal to overturn Evans' conviction, the Appeal Court judges who reviewed his case in 2004 declared that there was no doubt that Evans was completely innocent of either murder.

Christie was an official police informant and former special constable. He also had convictions for assault, robbery, and sexual offences including necrophilia. The police nevertheless built their case around his testimony. There is a strong presumption that they did so for no better reason than that he was their informant and that he knew and was known to a number of the officers engaged in the Evans 'investigation'.

In addition, the original police search of the house and grounds at Rillington Place was careless to say the least - the police later found a woman's thigh-bone in plain view propping up a trellis in the garden. The original searchers had 'overlooked' it.

Both Evans and Christie were hanged by Albert Pierrepoint. Evans asserted his innocence to Pierrepoint on the gallows, and the conjunction of the two cases (and the strong possibility that he had been instrumental in the execution of an innocent man) was one of the factors in Pierrepoint's rejection of capital punishment towards the end of his life.

"I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people... The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

[IWasThere2016]

A case like that of Thomas Hamilton - had he not taken his own life then I feel his life should have been taken from him if you follow my drift. Effectively a case where there was no dubiety regarding guilt :agree:

:agree:


String the polis up.

Do you think the Polis would do this if the guy's they were framing or embelishing evidence against or whatever were going to die? If so then they really should be strung up. Wouldn't help retrospectively but in these cases the Polis are worse than the accused. They have the publics trust. Let em swing. :agree:

:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't disagree to be honest. All I guess I was trying to point out was that there are cases where there's been no miscarriage of justice and if any were ever to be considered fitting for the death penalty then the Thomas Hamilton one might fit that bill.

I am against the death penalty but I can understand why in some cases there are supporters for its return

In cases like Hamilton, I have no problem with the first officer on the scene taking a gun and executing the murderer. I'm not sure this hasn't happened in some of these cases, it's strange how every one of them tops themselves before the police can arrest them, yet, five minutes previously they had delusions which make them feel all powerful.


String the polis up.

Do you think the Polis would do this if the guy's they were framing or embelishing evidence against or whatever were going to die? If so then they really should be strung up. Wouldn't help retrospectively but in these cases the Polis are worse than the accused. They have the publics trust. Let em swing. :agree:

Well, they have in the past. The cases of Bentley and Craig and Christie and Evans, are examples of times they haven't looked too closely at the evidence.

I understand that the greatest flaw in police practice in this country has been that, having established a prime suspect, they concentrate on gathering evidence that will establish that person's guilt. This happens to the extent that any evidence they garner that suggests that the prime suspect didn't do it is ignored.

On top of that, there are political and social pressures on the polis to "get a result". This means that they are under pressure to secure a conviction due to the baying of the mob. I'm not particularly blaming the police, more a society that doesn't seem capable of looking into things in any depth.