University Fees

[GlesgaeHibby]

Apparently Universities in England wish to increase their tuition fees to between £5000 and £20000 per year.

Having trawled through the BBC 'Have your say' its interesting to see views on this from north and south of the border. A lot of English people are angry that we get our fees paid for, and feel they are subsidising them(even though we send much more to the exchequer than we receive back, but thats another story).

IF this gets the go ahead, where does this leave Scottish Institutions? With our fees paid for by the Scottish Government, and capped at £1800, already below Englands £3000. As a result of a further increase in English fees Scottish universities would struggle even more to compete on both a national and an international level, which would be disastrous for education in Scotland.

I am strongly of the opinion that an education should be based on the ability to learn, and not the ability to pay. This hike would obviously price many able students out of the game.

I believe the problems stem from the fact that this Labour government has encouraged everybody and anybody to go and get a degree. We currently have a ridiculous oversubscription on the trendy courses-Business Studies, Media Studies, Theatre Studies where there is simply very little need or relevance in the job market for these degrees. These people struggle to get jobs, and in turn struggle to pay back debt incurred whilst studying. Why should the government continue to encourage larger numbers of people into university than is needed?

There seems to be a stigma arising, and schools are very guilty of this. During 6th year we were all encouraged to the point of it being pressured, into applying for university. The stark reality is that University is not for everyone AND that if it isn't for you, there is nothing to feel ashamed about. It is from this pressure, that too many people are applying to study on these trendy courses mentioned above, as they are seen as easy options. I do feel really worried that schools and government put such a heavy emphasis on studying at university, especially when we have a shortage of skilled workers in many trades.

Where universities are really struggling to attract numbers is in the areas which the economy is desperately crying out for, namely the Physical Sciences. Big money contracts and industry work is being relocated abroad due to a severe shortage of skilled scientists in the UK, whilst golden hellos are offered to people willing to teach maths, physics and chemistry due to teacher shortages.

Continuing to produce top quality Doctors and Nurses is of course vital, and it would be extremely foolish to discourage potential Doctors and Nurses due to massive fees.

The solution has to involve increasing support for able students keen to study areas of importance that are seriously undersubscribed, and those that are essential(such as Doctors and Nurses) whilst encouraging those that choose to study ridiculously oversubscribed subjects, or subjects with minimal job prospects that they would be perhaps better off choosing another path.

Thoughts?

[Danderhall Hibs]

I believe the problems stem from the fact that this Labour government has encouraged everybody and anybody to go and get a degree. We currently have a ridiculous oversubscription on the trendy courses-Business Studies, Media Studies, Theatre Studies where there is simply very little need or relevance in the job market for these degrees. These people struggle to get jobs, and in turn struggle to pay back debt incurred whilst studying. Why should the government continue to encourage larger numbers of people into university than is needed?

There seems to be a stigma arising, and schools are very guilty of this. During 6th year we were all encouraged to the point of it being pressured, into applying for university. The stark reality is that University is not for everyone AND that if it isn't for you, there is nothing to feel ashamed about. It is from this pressure, that too many people are applying to study on these trendy courses mentioned above, as they are seen as easy options. I do feel really worried that schools and government put such a heavy emphasis on studying at university, especially when we have a shortage of skilled workers in many trades.


I agree with these comments. Tony Blair started it all with his need to have a high percentage of kids go to Uni. As you say why? The problem is they come out of Uni with their Business Studies degree and immediately think they should be in a management role because they've "got a degree". They'd have been better spending 4 years learning the business rather than pishing about writing essays with big words that they won't need to use again.

[Hainan Hibs]

I am doing a management degree, and in no way did I pick to because it's trendy and in no way do I think I deserve management job just because of my degree.

Not everyone thinks the way youse say, although i'll admit a fair few do.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I agree with these comments. Tony Blair started it all with his need to have a high percentage of kids go to Uni. As you say why? The problem is they come out of Uni with their Business Studies degree and immediately think they should be in a management role because they've "got a degree". They'd have been better spending 4 years learning the business rather than pishing about writing essays with big words that they won't need to use again.

Thats exactly how I see it. To help me through uni I've worked in retail, and its clear to me that management skills are obtained through hard work, practice and experience in a real business environment.

A science degree gives you a good range of skills, but ultimately trains you in skills needed as a working scientist.

Business is a practical discipline in real life, and isn't done by studying books. You have to make on the spot decisions. As such, the best business study should surely be getting out and working your way up within a business, learning on the job?

[Woody1985]

I've been building up some experience in my role as a system analyst for the last 3 years before applying for an ISOS BST role at my company.

I didn't go for it last year as I only had 2 years experience in my role and wanted to network and build up more connections within ISOS before applying.

This year they have made a degree mandatory for applying. :grr::grr::grr:

I have 6.5 years business knowledge throughout different areas of the company as well as working closely with the area I want to join but am now classed not suitable because I don't have a degree.

However, any old tom, dick or harry with a degree in anything, yes, ANYTHING can go for the job. You can have a degree in french, flower arranging etc etc etc and not have the first clue about what these people do but are deemed more suitable than me.

I come from a family where I had to get a job the minute I left school or it meant no money. Add that to the fact that I wasn't really interested in further education since I had spent the last 12/13 years of my life in a classroom.

[greenlex]

I've been building up some experience in my role as a system analyst for the last 3 years before applying for an ISOS BST role at my company.

I didn't go for it last year as I only had 2 years experience in my role and wanted to network and build up more connections within ISOS before applying.

This year they have made a degree mandatory for applying. :grr::grr::grr:

I have 6.5 years business knowledge throughout different areas of the company as well as working closely with the area I want to join but am now classed not suitable because I don't have a degree.

However, any old tom, dick or harry with a degree in anything, yes, ANYTHING can go for the job. You can have a degree in french, flower arranging etc etc etc and not have the first clue about what these people do but are deemed more suitable than me.

I come from a family where I had to get a job the minute I left school or it meant no money. Add that to the fact that I wasn't really interested in further education since I had spent the last 12/13 years of my life in a classroom.
Try the Open University Woody. I did a couple of years of an MBA on it. Its not cheap but you can still work and employers recognise it as a proper degree and in many cases it will increase your employability as prospective employers usually like the fact you have taken the time to do it and work. I didn't finish the whole degree course as family commitments and as my career at work actually took off and the time involved in all three was too much. Getting too old to be arsed going back to it but I could if the notion took me.

[Ryan91]

Apparently Universities in England wish to increase their tuition fees to between £5000 and £20000 per year.

Having trawled through the BBC 'Have your say' its interesting to see views on this from north and south of the border. A lot of English people are angry that we get our fees paid for, and feel they are subsidising them(even though we send much more to the exchequer than we receive back, but thats another story).

IF this gets the go ahead, where does this leave Scottish Institutions? With our fees paid for by the Scottish Government, and capped at £1800, already below Englands £3000. As a result of a further increase in English fees Scottish universities would struggle even more to compete on both a national and an international level, which would be disastrous for education in Scotland.

I am strongly of the opinion that an education should be based on the ability to learn, and not the ability to pay. This hike would obviously price many able students out of the game.

I believe the problems stem from the fact that this Labour government has encouraged everybody and anybody to go and get a degree. We currently have a ridiculous oversubscription on the trendy courses-Business Studies, Media Studies, Theatre Studies where there is simply very little need or relevance in the job market for these degrees. These people struggle to get jobs, and in turn struggle to pay back debt incurred whilst studying. Why should the government continue to encourage larger numbers of people into university than is needed?

There seems to be a stigma arising, and schools are very guilty of this. During 6th year we were all encouraged to the point of it being pressured, into applying for university. The stark reality is that University is not for everyone AND that if it isn't for you, there is nothing to feel ashamed about. It is from this pressure, that too many people are applying to study on these trendy courses mentioned above, as they are seen as easy options. I do feel really worried that schools and government put such a heavy emphasis on studying at university, especially when we have a shortage of skilled workers in many trades.

Where universities are really struggling to attract numbers is in the areas which the economy is desperately crying out for, namely the Physical Sciences. Big money contracts and industry work is being relocated abroad due to a severe shortage of skilled scientists in the UK, whilst golden hellos are offered to people willing to teach maths, physics and chemistry due to teacher shortages.

Continuing to produce top quality Doctors and Nurses is of course vital, and it would be extremely foolish to discourage potential Doctors and Nurses due to massive fees.

The solution has to involve increasing support for able students keen to study areas of importance that are seriously undersubscribed, and those that are essential(such as Doctors and Nurses) whilst encouraging those that choose to study ridiculously oversubscribed subjects, or subjects with minimal job prospects that they would be perhaps better off choosing another path.

Thoughts?

I intend to go to Uni and do Physics, i feel that people who chose to do a degree in Physics/Maths/Chemistry/Engineering should be given as much support as is possible by the government, be it through grants or bursaries. It used to be that tradesmen (plumbers, joiners, etc.) were in real short supply and thus were paid large amounts of money. But now the number of people becoming tradesmen has gone up and the number of scientists has declined sharply, i was speaking to my Physics teacher the other day and he pointed out that the number of pupils that take Physics in my year (at Advanced Higher Level) is 20 out of more than 220 pupils, less than 10% of my year take AH Physics, and out of the 20 Physicists, only 3 people wish to take science related degrees at uni, I hope to do Physics, another wishes to do Engineering the final person wants to do maths, that is just over 10% of people doing AH Physics that wish to continue doing something science related at Uni. Those figures equate to just over 1% of the year as a whole.

[steakbake]

Bottom line: too many students, studying on too many courses. Everyone wants something for nothing.

If you want a degree, you should have to pay for it. Whether that is eventually through higher taxes, or taking out a loan to pay for it at the time seems to be the issue here.

I'm still paying for my degree, many years on. And I got my fees paid.

[greenlex]

I intend to go to Uni and do Physics, i feel that people who chose to do a degree in Physics/Maths/Chemistry/Engineering should be given as much support as is possible by the government, be it through grants or bursaries. It used to be that tradesmen (plumbers, joiners, etc.) were in real short supply and thus were paid large amounts of money. But now the number of people becoming tradesmen has gone up and the number of scientists has declined sharply, i was speaking to my Physics teacher the other day and he pointed out that the number of pupils that take Physics in my year (at Advanced Higher Level) is 20 out of more than 220 pupils, less than 10% of my year take AH Physics, and out of the 20 Physicists, only 3 people wish to take science related degrees at uni, I hope to do Physics, another wishes to do Engineering the final person wants to do maths, that is just over 10% of people doing AH Physics that wish to continue doing something science related at Uni. Those figures equate to just over 1% of the year as a whole.
I reckon you should bin physics and do statistics.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I reckon you should bin physics and do statistics.

:hilarious

[joe_hfc]

I reckon you should bin physics and do statistics.

:faf: