The IRA are back

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Looks like these bar stewards are back...... s. c. um bar. stewards
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Two-Killed-And-Several-Wounded-In-Shooting-At-Army-Base-Northern-Ireland/Article/200903115236850?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15236850_Two_Killed_And_Several_Wounde d_In_Shooting_At_Army_Base%2C_Northern_IrelandSKY NEWS (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Two-Killed-And-Several-Wounded-In-Shooting-At-Army-Base-Northern-Ireland/Article/200903115236850?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15236850_Two_Killed_And_Several_Wounde d_In_Shooting_At_Army_Base%2C_Northern_Ireland)

[hibiedude]

Tony Blair and Co let all the killers out off jail because they promised they would be good boys in the future, not really surprised that they have chosen to go back to the bad old days. Because history tells us that when the IRA don't get what they want some soldiers or civilians are murdered, Now get ready for more piece talks and more concessions from the British government.

[Hibbyradge]

Tony Blair and Co let all the killers out off jail because they promised they would be good boys in the future, not really surprised that they have chosen to go back to the bad old days. Because history tells us that when the IRA don't get what they want some soldiers or civilians are murdered, Now get ready for more piece talks and more concessions from the British government.

:bitchy:

I see you have an in depth understanding of the political situation in Northern ireland.

"No-one has yet claimed responsibility for the shooting, although it has been blamed on dissident republicans opposed to the peace process."

[Hainan Hibs]

My thoughts go out to the families of the two soldiers.

[H18sry]

My thoughts go out to the families of the two soldiers.
As do mine

Looks like these bar stewards are back...... s. c. um bar. stewards
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Two-Killed-And-Several-Wounded-In-Shooting-At-Army-Base-Northern-Ireland/Article/200903115236850?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15236850_Two_Killed_And_Several_Wounde d_In_Shooting_At_Army_Base%2C_Northern_IrelandSKY NEWS (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Two-Killed-And-Several-Wounded-In-Shooting-At-Army-Base-Northern-Ireland/Article/200903115236850?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15236850_Two_Killed_And_Several_Wounde d_In_Shooting_At_Army_Base%2C_Northern_Ireland)

Where have the IRA claimed responsibility :confused: there are many break away terrorist faction who now have nothing to do with them that could have committed this murder.

[Dashing Bob S]

Sadly, it shows that the legacy of decades of bigoted hatred can't be brushed away just like that and that there is a rump of psychopaths who derive the only status in life they can ever have from being members of such organizations. (And as to the sectarian groupies in football stands in the west of Scotland who sustain them with their cheap encouragement - they are as low in their own cowardly way.)

I'm confident though, that since the peace process, they they have no standing or support base left in the community they would conceitedly have themselves represent, and will be dismissed there as the twisted inadequates they are.

I'm someone who doesn't find the term 'terrorist' helpful, and history has shown that any democracy eventually has to negotiate with, and recognise the legitimate aspirations of those who have turned to political violence to further their aims, if lasting peace is to be achieved. But this has already been done in Northern Ireland and is supported by the great majority of people.

Those who perpetuated this attack are not freedom fighters, or even terrorists, as they have no politics or aims which are supported by a broader community, nor any genuine empathy with of aspirations for, such a community. They are just murdering psychopaths who need the compelling drama of violence and destruction to give their miserable lives some sick meaning. Let's hope they're hunted down and locked up soon.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

As do mine


Where have the IRA claimed responsibility :confused: there are many break away terrorist faction who now have nothing to do with them that could have committed this murder.

No where, it is an assumption and my opinion, break away group or not they will have supporters and probably terrorists from the IRA that took part or helped in this attack.

[Betty Boop]

I see the media are preparing to put the boot into Gordon Brown, after his decision to award an honorary knighthood to Ted Kennedy, who was a big backer of the Irish Republican Movement. :rolleyes:

[Brizo]

One of the British justice systems most unfortunate failures was there inability to prosecute the Real IRA dissident group for the 1998 Omagh bombing. Convictions may have led to the few remaining dissidents being crushed and unable to carry out yesterdays attack. The Omagh relatives are now having to take out civil action against the prime suspects.

In recent years dissidents have targetted Catholic policemen , two shot but not fatally in 2007. Yesterdays fatal attack on Army personnel shows a terrifying upping of the ante to a level id hoped never to read about again.

Hopefully the authorities can swiftly identify these murderous criminals and more importantly succesfully bring them to justice.

[hibiedude]

:bitchy:

I see you have an in depth understanding of the political situation in Northern ireland.

"No-one has yet claimed responsibility for the shooting, although it has been blamed on dissident republicans opposed to the peace process."

The word decommissioning was supposed to give the people of Northern Ireland. A break from all this sh*te but. As I said get ready for more piece talks and more concessions from the British government for these murdering ********s.

Loved reading your reply Dashing Bob :top marks

[degenerated]

No where, it is an assumption and my opinion, break away group or not they will have supporters and probably terrorists from the IRA that took part or helped in this attack.

so based on the facts then. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Gerry Adams backs police hunt for gunmen and calls attack 'wrong and counter-productive' :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

I think the comments of Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and the general murmurings from the nationalist community shows that this kind of action has little support amongst mainstream Irish Republicans in this day and age.

It is possible to oppose British rule in Northern Ireland without resorting to what is nothing more than murder. The Real IRA have never had a huge backing from the Nationalist community and even less so after Omagh where a significant number of Catholics were killed.

People really have to recognise the difference between the original IRA, the now unarmed Provisional IRA and the murderers and gangsters who make up the membership of the Real IRA.

Sympathies to the soldiers and their families also.

[IWasThere2016]

Murdering ****!

[Sir David Gray]

It would seem that the Real IRA have now claimed responsibility for the shootings. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7930995.stm

I hope the murderers responsible for this cold blooded act, and those that may have supported them, are hunted down and face justice.

Sympathies go out to the families and friends of those killed.

[degenerated]

I think the comments of Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and the general murmurings from the nationalist community shows that this kind of action has little support amongst mainstream Irish Republicans in this day and age.

It is possible to oppose British rule in Northern Ireland without resorting to what is nothing more than murder. The Real IRA have never had a huge backing from the Nationalist community and even less so after Omagh where a significant number of Catholics were killed.

People really have to recognise the difference between the original IRA, the now unarmed Provisional IRA and the murderers and gangsters who make up the membership of the Real IRA.

Sympathies to the soldiers and their families also.

the continuity IRA are just as bad as the Real IRA. They also have never accepted the peace process. neither of these organisations have ever really gone away whereas at least the provisionals seem determind to achieve their goals at the ballot box now.

[Bristolhibby]

The sad thing was these two young soldiers were due to go off to put themselves in danger fighting the Taliban in Afganastan. Only to be murdered in the so called safety of home.

RIP.

J

[Pretty Boy]

the continuity IRA are just as bad as the Real IRA. They also have never accepted the peace process. neither of these organisations have ever really gone away whereas at least the provisionals seem determind to achieve their goals at the ballot box now.

I agree thats why i made the point about people having to realise the difference. Whatever anyone thinks about the Provos and people such as Gerry Adams et al the vast majority have accepted an end to the armed campaign and are determined to acheive their goals through democratic means.

Supporting Irish nationalism and the goal of a united Ireland can be exclusive from supporting murder.

[coolhibbie]

my old regiment guys they only moved over to ireland last year from ripon in north yorkshire. The sad thing is these guys support the local community big time helping out with all sorts of trades and engineering problem R.I.P guys
Royal Engineers -Ubique (everywhere)

[Nailrod]

I'm someone who doesn't find the term 'terrorist' helpful, and history has shown that any democracy eventually has to negotiate with, and recognise the legitimate aspirations of those who have turned to political violence to further their aims, if lasting peace is to be achieved. But this has already been done in Northern Ireland and is supported by the great majority of people.

Problem with this approach Bob, is where do you draw the line? From the RIRA's perspective, they have 'turned to' (or continued to use) political violence to further their 'legitimate political aspirations' in exactly the same way as the old IRA did. Therefore according to your logic, we now have to recognise their legitimate aspirations, and negotiate with them.

What is the difference between the RIRA and any other group that decides to use political violence to achieve ends that cannot be achieved by democratic means? Who are you or I or anybody else to pass judgment on the 'legitimacy' of these people's aspirations? They consider their political aspirations to be legitimate, and they consider themselves entitled to use murder to further them.

What is the logic by which we should negotiate with one group of murderers, while refusing to negotiate with another?

[hibiedude]

Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have been on TV all day yesterday telling us' The people responsible for last night's incident are clearly signalling that they want to resume or re-start that war. Well, I deny their right to do that." well if that's the case and with there connections we should expect a early arrest then.

And talking about Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness why have they not sent out there sympathy to the family of the dead soldiers because that will be as important to the people of Ireland to show these guys have actually change there ways.

[Hibrandenburg]

Problem with this approach Bob, is where do you draw the line? From the RIRA's perspective, they have 'turned to' (or continued to use) political violence to further their 'legitimate political aspirations' in exactly the same way as the old IRA did. Therefore according to your logic, we now have to recognise their legitimate aspirations, and negotiate with them.

What is the difference between the RIRA and any other group that decides to use political violence to achieve ends that cannot be achieved by democratic means? Who are you or I or anybody else to pass judgment on the 'legitimacy' of these people's aspirations? They consider their political aspirations to be legitimate, and they consider themselves entitled to use murder to further them.

What is the logic by which we should negotiate with one group of murderers, while refusing to negotiate with another?


:agree: To kill someone for political ends, finacial gain, because of intoxication, an argument or during a robbery etc, etc, etc, are all the same , murder. The only possible exception would be self defence.

Murderers they are, all of them no matter how they try and justify their bigoted hate and bloodlust.

[Pretty Boy]

Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have been on TV all day yesterday telling us' The people responsible for last night's incident are clearly signalling that they want to resume or re-start that war. Well, I deny their right to do that." well if that's the case and with there connections we should expect a early arrest then.

And talking about Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness why have they not sent out there sympathy to the family of the dead soldiers because that will be as important to the people of Ireland to show these guys have actually change there ways.

Gerry Adams - "It was wrong. It was counter-productive.

"My thoughts are with the families of the two men who were killed and who were injured,"

"And you might take some succour from the fact that whoever was involved, they have no support and no strategy and no popular will to back up their actions."

[aberhibsfc]

:agree:
Sadly, it shows that the legacy of decades of bigoted hatred can't be brushed away just like that and that there is a rump of psychopaths who derive the only status in life they can ever have from being members of such organizations. (And as to the sectarian groupies in football stands in the west of Scotland who sustain them with their cheap encouragement - they are as low in their own cowardly way.)

I'm confident though, that since the peace process, they they have no standing or support base left in the community they would conceitedly have themselves represent, and will be dismissed there as the twisted inadequates they are.

I'm someone who doesn't find the term 'terrorist' helpful, and history has shown that any democracy eventually has to negotiate with, and recognise the legitimate aspirations of those who have turned to political violence to further their aims, if lasting peace is to be achieved. But this has already been done in Northern Ireland and is supported by the great majority of people.

Those who perpetuated this attack are not freedom fighters, or even terrorists, as they have no politics or aims which are supported by a broader community, nor any genuine empathy with of aspirations for, such a community. They are just murdering psychopaths who need the compelling drama of violence and destruction to give their miserable lives some sick meaning. Let's hope they're hunted down and locked up soon.

[degenerated]

i think the difference is that sinn fein/Provisional ira represented the views of a large demographic of the six counties, and ireland in general. The 32 county sovereignty comission, real ira and continuity ira do not represent the views of many in ireland now. the will of the people is for a peaceful solution and adams and mcguiness, even taking cognisance of their past, represent the best chance of this happening peacefully.


Problem with this approach Bob, is where do you draw the line? From the RIRA's perspective, they have 'turned to' (or continued to use) political violence to further their 'legitimate political aspirations' in exactly the same way as the old IRA did. Therefore according to your logic, we now have to recognise their legitimate aspirations, and negotiate with them.

What is the difference between the RIRA and any other group that decides to use political violence to achieve ends that cannot be achieved by democratic means? Who are you or I or anybody else to pass judgment on the 'legitimacy' of these people's aspirations? They consider their political aspirations to be legitimate, and they consider themselves entitled to use murder to further them.

What is the logic by which we should negotiate with one group of murderers, while refusing to negotiate with another?

[Dashing Bob S]

Problem with this approach Bob, is where do you draw the line? From the RIRA's perspective, they have 'turned to' (or continued to use) political violence to further their 'legitimate political aspirations' in exactly the same way as the old IRA did. Therefore according to your logic, we now have to recognise their legitimate aspirations, and negotiate with them.

What is the difference between the RIRA and any other group that decides to use political violence to achieve ends that cannot be achieved by democratic means? Who are you or I or anybody else to pass judgment on the 'legitimacy' of these people's aspirations? They consider their political aspirations to be legitimate, and they consider themselves entitled to use murder to further them.

What is the logic by which we should negotiate with one group of murderers, while refusing to negotiate with another?

Easy. The acid test is, are they supported by the community they purport to be perpetuating this violence of behalf of? In the case of the so-called 'real IRA' the answer is resoundingly 'no', as the vast majority of the nationist community, including most republicans, now accept democracy and the peace process as the sole means of furthering their aims.

Secondly, I would doubt that these people in RIRA have any political wing that a Government could negotiate with, even if they were daft enought to try and do so.

[givescotlandfreedom]

This isn't looking good http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7933990.stm :bitchy::bitchy::bitchy:

[hibiedude]

I think this could escalate if action is not swift, what next a civilian killing or a mainland Bomb in London going off. I think the connections Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have it wouldn't be difficult for them due to there murdering past to find out the names behind these attacks. The murderers that now hold senior posts in the Irish political machine now must pull together to end this killing spree or it won't take long for revenge attacks against the REAL IRA or it will be a return to the bad old days.

And yes I do know what the bad old days were like

[GlesgaeHibby]

This isn't looking good http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7933990.stm :bitchy::bitchy::bitchy:

Worrying times indeed. The sooner this is stamped out and the **** responsible are locked up for life, the better.

[steakbake]

My worry is that you'll start to get the dissident loyalists in revenge attacks on innocent nationalist targets and then we'll all be back to square one.

Restraint is needed, leaders need to pull their community with them through this situation. Loyalist leaders need to be talking to adjutants on their side to keep them at bay while nationalists need to be using their networks to find out where this is all coming from and bring these clowns to justice.

Bandying around terms like 'murderers' when you're talking about the leaders of one of communities we desperately need on board for the peace to work is the kind of carry-on best left in the past, don't you think?

[Killiehibbie]

Have they ever been away?
The 'fund raising' activities have never stopped. The punishment beatings have never stopped. If they had to live legitimate lives they would maybe even have to get proper jobs but as long as it is for the cause gangsterism is ok.

[Betty Boop]

the continuity IRA are just as bad as the Real IRA. They also have never accepted the peace process. neither of these organisations have ever really gone away whereas at least the provisionals seem determind to achieve their goals at the ballot box now.
The Continuity IRA have claimed responsibility for the shooting of the police officer, are the two factions working in tandem i wonder?

[steakbake]

The Continuity IRA have claimed responsibility for the shooting of the police officer, are the two factions working in tandem i wonder?

Or is it just the name of convenience given by a bunch of barstewards intent on derailing a hard won peace and the place at the discussion table for the nationalist community?

These goons want lynching.

[degenerated]

The Continuity IRA have claimed responsibility for the shooting of the police officer, are the two factions working in tandem i wonder?


i read a while back that they were working in tandem these days in terms of training, planning and proliferation of weapons.

should the provos, who will know exactly who did this, hand them over to the authorities it would be a real statement of intent. however, i suspect they are more likely to be disappeared if this continues.

[Betty Boop]

i read a while back that they were working in tandem these days in terms of training, planning and proliferation of weapons.

should the provos, who will know exactly who did this, hand them over to the authorities it would be a real statement of intent. however, i suspect they are more likely to be disappeared if this continues. Two arrests, a 17 year old and a 37 year old.

[Antifa Hibs]

Aparntley the PSNI officer was from the Republic!

The best thing for Britian to do is hand Ireland back to the Irish. I'd like to see a United Ireland as much as the next person, but it's never going to happen, so surely the best compramise would be to end all involvement with the Isle and recognize N.I/Ulster as a free and independant state?

Keeps the nationalists happy as they ain't under British rule and can still class themselves as Irish citizens anyway, and keeps the Loyalists and Unionists happy as they ain't under Irish rule. If the unionst/loyalist divisions are hellbent on being under British rule, then it's time for them to come home and live with us sellouts in Scotland or down in England and Wales.

Britian handed back most of the countries it took by force, so why not Ulster? Would be interesting to see how much the troubles in Ireland have cost the mainland british taxpayer. From the rebuilding of IRA bomb attacks to the deployment of soldiers.

Rip to all btw.

[ancient hibee]

Aparntley the PSNI officer was from the Republic!

The best thing for Britian to do is hand Ireland back to the Irish. I'd like to see a United Ireland as much as the next person, but it's never going to happen, so surely the best compramise would be to end all involvement with the Isle and recognize N.I/Ulster as a free and independant state?

Keeps the nationalists happy as they ain't under British rule and can still class themselves as Irish citizens anyway, and keeps the Loyalists and Unionists happy as they ain't under Irish rule. If the unionst/loyalist divisions are hellbent on being under British rule, then it's time for them to come home and live with us sellouts in Scotland or down in England and Wales.

Britian handed back most of the countries it took by force, so why not Ulster? Would be interesting to see how much the troubles in Ireland have cost the mainland british taxpayer. From the rebuilding of IRA bomb attacks to the deployment of soldiers.

Rip to all btw.
Northern Irish are British(just to be pedantic).If some of them don't want to be let them bu**er off to the Irish Republic.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Northern Irish are British(just to be pedantic).If some of them don't want to be let them bu**er off to the Irish Republic.

But they are in Ireland.
r.i.p. btw.

I don't want to be classed as british, where can I bugger off to? :confused:

[Antifa Hibs]

Northern Irish are British(just to be pedantic).If some of them don't want to be let them bu**er off to the Irish Republic.


They clues are in the names. If Northern Ireland unionst don't want to live under Irish Rule don't live on Ireland. If they want to live under British rule, move to Britian. Simple.

[degenerated]

Northern Irish are British(just to be pedantic).If some of them don't want to be let them bu**er off to the Irish Republic.

they are citizens of the united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland so just to put another perspective on it, the ones that long to be british could bugger off to britain.

whatever the outcome, it is for the people of ireland, as a whole, to decide themselves :agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Northern Irish are British(just to be pedantic).If some of them don't want to be let them bu**er off to the Irish Republic.

Most Republicans don't hold a particular like for the Republic of Ireland either, they see it as a false state in place of a true United Ireland.

[Sir David Gray]

Another terrible day for Northern Ireland. I think there must be the fear that Loyalist groups are preparing revenge attacks against the Republican community. If that happens, there is a very real danger that the situation could deteriorate rapidly and Northern Ireland could end up as bad as it was 20 years ago.

Although Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams have made comments saying that they strongly oppose these killings, it will be interesting to see what they actually do in the coming days and weeks to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

It's in their interests to round up these people and see that they face justice as they will see the likes of McGuinness and Adams as part of the enemy.

I would send in MI5 as these guys will be able to find out who's responsible for these killings and would be able to take them out.

Apparently the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA have a very low support base from within the Republican community so it shouldn't be too difficult to round up any members or supporters.

Either way, I hope the tragic death of the police officer last night is the last terrorist related death in Northern Ireland.

[New Corrie]

They clues are in the names. If Northern Ireland unionst don't want to live under Irish Rule don't live on Ireland. If they want to live under British rule, move to Britian. Simple.

A sort of selective repatriation is it? send the Unionist Prods to the mainland, then what? Do we then send all the Irish Catholics back to Ireland? Some sort of swap deal perhaps.

Going by your logic, I take it anyone here in Britan who doesn't want to live under British rule should move on. Maybe not the worst shout actually,

[degenerated]

A sort of selective repatriation is it? send the Unionist Prods to the mainland, then what? Do we then send all the Irish Catholics back to Ireland? Some sort of swap deal perhaps.

Going by your logic, I take it anyone here in Britan who doesn't want to live under British rule should move on. Maybe not the worst shout actually,

hardly repatriation is it? given that northern ireland isn't actually part of britain.

[Dashing Bob S]

They clues are in the names. If Northern Ireland unionst don't want to live under Irish Rule don't live on Ireland. If they want to live under British rule, move to Britian. Simple.

That simply can't be done nowadays, and to try and do so would smack of fascism with those parties views on compulsory repatriation, ie; sending people 'back' to a place they don't know. The Scots-Ulster and Anglo-Ulster cultures in the North of Ireland are long-standing, established and settled and, whatever you think about their genesis, are not going away. I think the sectarian game is over, and the notion of 'sending people back' to either Ireland or Britain because they don't agree with you, has thankfully had its day.

If a united Ireland every does eventually come about, in my opinion, insitutions in the south will have to change to accomodate Ulster Protestants, just as those in the north will have to continue to adapt to meet nationalist apirations. For example, the separation of church and state in the south of the country is long overdue, and this connnection is not really acceptable, in my view, in a modern democracy.

A more secular state would be more attractive to Ulster Protestants, right now the inclusive Orange in the tricolour is a bit of a sham, and it will be until the RC church shed's its influence in the agencies of the Irish state. After seperation, the Protestant population in Southern Ireland fell from almost 20% to 2% following disenchantment with the aggressive church-sponsored monoculturalist 'Oirishing' policies of De Valera.

The real neglected issue is that politicians in the south don't wan't to change the Republic of Ireland to accomodate Ulster. For all the meek protestations to the contrary, the major parties in the south are in favour of the partition and would not touch the hassle of a united Ireland with a bargepole. SF are the exception, but they polled around 10% in the last election in the South.

[IWasThere2016]

I do think financial incentives should have been offered many years to the patrons of NI to re-locate or accept Government from the South to avoid the countless waste of lives in Ulster.

It would have been a cheaper (lives and £££s) and more peaceful solution IMHO.

[steakbake]

I do think financial incentives should have been offered many years to the patrons of NI to re-locate or accept Government from the South to avoid the countless waste of lives in Ulster.

It would have been a cheaper (lives and £££s) and more peaceful solution IMHO.

That would have been fine, if we were looking at it with modern eyes.

The free state didn't have the luxury of bargaining too much and I think fearing the offer of home rule on the table was at stake, the deal was done with partition writ into it to take what they could at that time.

There is no way that the British establishment would have ceded the whole of the island of Ireland, regardless of the future consequences.

We are where we are as a result and it is a hell of a lot further down a better road than even 10 years ago.

I dont think there is any appetite to go back to the situation of the past outside of a few delusional, murderous fantasists.

Hence it is only a matter of time before these people are either turned in and caught (2 arrested just last night) or dealt with from within their own community.

[eringobragh1875]

Another terrible day for Northern Ireland. I think there must be the fear that Loyalist groups are preparing revenge attacks against the Republican community. If that happens, there is a very real danger that the situation could deteriorate rapidly and Northern Ireland could end up as bad as it was 20 years ago.

Although Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams have made comments saying that they strongly oppose these killings, it will be interesting to see what they actually do in the coming days and weeks to ensure that this kind of thing does not happen again. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

It's in their interests to round up these people and see that they face justice as they will see the likes of McGuinness and Adams as part of the enemy.

I would send in MI5 as these guys will be able to find out who's responsible for these killings and would be able to take them out.

Apparently the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA have a very low support base from within the Republican community so it shouldn't be too difficult to round up any members or supporters.

Either way, I hope the tragic death of the police officer last night is the last terrorist related death in Northern Ireland.
and were exactly do u get the information that rira and cira have a very low support. the britsh based media run by the goverment of the united kingdom the bbc as example or maybe sky news owned by murdoch who supported britans illegal ocupation of iraq. think u need to broden ur horizons dont belive everything the goverment tells you such as its not there fault for the credit crunch, saddam had wepons of mass destruction they feed us constant lies.


u also say bring in the mi5 they will find them. britan still has more soldiers in the north of eire per head of population than they have in iraq of afgahistan. They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

[steakbake]

and were exactly do u get the information that rira and cira have a very low support. the britsh based media run by the goverment of the united kingdom the bbc as example or maybe sky news owned by murdoch who supported britans illegal ocupation of iraq. think u need to broden ur horizons dont belive everything the goverment tells you such as its not there fault for the credit crunch, saddam had wepons of mass destruction they feed us constant lies.


u also say bring in the mi5 they will find them. britan still has more soldiers in the north of eire per head of population than they have in iraq of afgahistan. They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

I'm happy to trust RTE's take on the situation.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0311/craigavon_av.html?2505679,null,230

[marinello59]

and were exactly do u get the information that rira and cira have a very low support. the britsh based media run by the goverment of the united kingdom the bbc as example or maybe sky news owned by murdoch who supported britans illegal ocupation of iraq. think u need to broden ur horizons dont belive everything the goverment tells you such as its not there fault for the credit crunch, saddam had wepons of mass destruction they feed us constant lies.


u also say bring in the mi5 they will find them. britan still has more soldiers in the north of eire per head of population than they have in iraq of afgahistan. They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

Sinn Fein seem to agree.
As for the rest of your post the peole who actually live in NI seem to have moved on, perhaps you should,

[steakbake]

Sinn Fein seem to agree.
As for the rest of your post the peole who actually live in NI seem to have moved on, perhaps you should,

:agree:

nationalist and republican cause is not served well by lunatics with guns who are stuck in the past.

[Barney McGrew]

They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

As oppose to letting the nutjobs who were happy to murder unarmed civilians walk free?

[Brizo]

and were exactly do u get the information that rira and cira have a very low support. the britsh based media run by the goverment of the united kingdom the bbc as example or maybe sky news owned by murdoch who supported britans illegal ocupation of iraq. think u need to broden ur horizons dont belive everything the goverment tells you such as its not there fault for the credit crunch, saddam had wepons of mass destruction they feed us constant lies.


u also say bring in the mi5 they will find them. britan still has more soldiers in the north of eire per head of population than they have in iraq of afgahistan. They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

Id be happy if you used capital letters , a spellchecker and avoided textspeak.

Your "analysis" is about as flawed as your grammar.

[eringobragh1875]

Sinn Fein seem to agree.
As for the rest of your post the peole who actually live in NI seem to have moved on, perhaps you should,
republican sinn fein dosent. sinn fein have went against all priniples of irish republicanism. first bye standing in the eletions in the south and then bye accepting partiton.

[eringobragh1875]

[/b]

Id be happy if you used capital letters , a spellchecker and avoided textspeak.

Your "analysis" is about as flawed as your grammar.
Sorry if my grammar seems to iritate you. Does this mean im not alowed to have an opinon because i dont have an english degree?

[eringobragh1875]

As oppose to letting the nutjobs who were happy to murder unarmed civilians walk free?
I never once said i agree with the killings was trying to point out that the britsh goverment is corupt to the core.

i belive that they should be brought to justice but dont think they will convict anyone for eiter of the incidents

[eringobragh1875]

I'm happy to trust RTE's take on the situation.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0311/craigavon_av.html?2505679,null,230
RTE is much the same is a free state supporter not particulary intrested in the six countys as it would bring another war with the loyalist if a united ireland was acheived.

[Brizo]

Sorry if my grammar seems to iritate you. Does this mean im not alowed to have an opinon because i dont have an english degree?

I thought capital letters and basic spelling were primary school stuff not university :wink:

I respect your right to have an opinion. Its just that it seems to be stuck in the 1980s - "Thatcher.... shoot to kill.....Gibralter". You come across as an armchair Republican Rip Van Winkle whos missed out the fact that the NI situation and more importantly the people of NI have moved on dramatically in the last 15 years.

Out of interest , have you lived or worked in NI or in your speak the occupied 6. Or are you like so many of the Embra bedroom rebels I grew up with - happy to revel in all the rhetoric , songs and flags from a safe distance without having to experience the reality of living there.

[steakbake]

RTE is much the same is a free state supporter not particulary intrested in the six countys as it would bring another war with the loyalist if a united ireland was acheived.

So what's your alternative?

[Sir David Gray]

and were exactly do u get the information that rira and cira have a very low support. the britsh based media run by the goverment of the united kingdom the bbc as example or maybe sky news owned by murdoch who supported britans illegal ocupation of iraq. think u need to broden ur horizons dont belive everything the goverment tells you such as its not there fault for the credit crunch, saddam had wepons of mass destruction they feed us constant lies.


u also say bring in the mi5 they will find them. britan still has more soldiers in the north of eire per head of population than they have in iraq of afgahistan. They could also bring in the sas and start there shoot to kill policy of the thatcher years when they murdered 2 unarmed men and a woman on gibraltor.would you be happy with that?

First off, I got my information from several media sources, which have all stated that the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA do not have a large support from within the Irish Republican community. The Real IRA have the larger support of the two, but even then it is believed to be less than 1,000 people.

With regards to your question of would I be happy with British soldiers killing unarmed men. No, of course I wouldn't. But Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom and when UK citizens are at risk of being targeted by terrorists (or in this case when they ARE being targeted by terrorists), we must act against the threat and protect our people.

Those people who are affiliated to hardline Republican groups, who are intent on killing innocent people for some warped cause, should be hunted down and each one should be brought to justice.

Regardless of what they might want others to believe, the people who have carried out these murders are not freedom fighters in any way, shape or form. They are cold blooded killers, pure and simple.

[Tazio]

RTE is much the same is a free state supporter not particulary intrested in the six countys as it would bring another war with the loyalist if a united ireland was acheived.

Never mind rhetoric from the 70's there seems to rhetoric from the 20's at play here.

[eringobragh1875]

I thought capital letters and basic spelling were primary school stuff not university :wink:

I respect your right to have an opinion. Its just that it seems to be stuck in the 1980s - "Thatcher.... shoot to kill.....Gibralter". You come across as an armchair Republican Rip Van Winkle whos missed out the fact that the NI situation and more importantly the people of NI have moved on dramatically in the last 15 years.

Out of interest , have you lived or worked in NI or in your speak the occupied 6. Or are you like so many of the Embra bedroom rebels I grew up with - happy to revel in all the rhetoric , songs and flags from a safe distance without having to experience the reality of living there.
No i havent lived in the north but did live in Dublin which had a constant fear of loyalist attacks.

[eringobragh1875]

Never mind rhetoric from the 70's there seems to rhetoric from the 20's at play here.
how do u work that out?

[eringobragh1875]

First off, I got my information from several media sources, which have all stated that the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA do not have a large support from within the Irish Republican community. The Real IRA have the larger support of the two, but even then it is believed to be less than 1,000 people.

With regards to your question of would I be happy with British soldiers killing unarmed men. No, of course I wouldn't. But Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom and when UK citizens are at risk of being targeted by terrorists (or in this case when they ARE being targeted by terrorists), we must act against the threat and protect our people.

Those people who are affiliated to hardline Republican groups, who are intent on killing innocent people for some warped cause, should be hunted down and each one should be brought to justice.

Regardless of what they might want others to believe, the people who have carried out these murders are not freedom fighters in any way, shape or form. They are cold blooded killers, pure and simple.
I agree that it is not the majority of republicans that want to go back to the troubles of the past. But i do think there is a lot more suport foe the CIRA/IRA than the press would like u to belive.

Regarding it being a warped cause, i would disagree with that i think that ireland is a sepertate island and is quite capable of running there own country without the britsh who have no right there and never have.

[MSK]

I agree that it is not the majority of republicans that want to go back to the troubles of the past. But i do think there is a lot more suport foe the CIRA/IRA than the press would like u to belive.

Regarding it being a warped cause, i would disagree with that i think that ireland is a sepertate island and is quite capable of running there own country without the britsh who have no right there and never have.A handy bit of advice ..beside the "quote" button you will see a multi quote" button ...easier all round if you used that ..

[eringobragh1875]

A handy bit of advice ..beside the "quote" button you will see a multi quote" button ...easier all round if you used that ..
cheers

[Brizo]

No i havent lived in the north but did live in Dublin which had a constant fear of loyalist attacks.

The answers no then :faf: :faf:

Hardly comparable . in fact Dublin has proved to be a far safer place to live in terms of suffering any type of terrorist attack than London or a number of other European capitals.

I rest my case. My post 58 para 3 final sentence refers :bye:

[steakbake]

Dublin in constant fear of loyalist attacks?

Seriously.

[Sir David Gray]

I agree that it is not the majority of republicans that want to go back to the troubles of the past. But i do think there is a lot more suport foe the CIRA/IRA than the press would like u to belive.

Regarding it being a warped cause, i would disagree with that i think that ireland is a sepertate island and is quite capable of running there own country without the britsh who have no right there and never have.

The fact that there have been thousands of people in the last week (many of them Republicans) taking to the streets of Northern Ireland in protest at these murders tells me that this violence is not supported by the vast majority.

Whether you agree or disagree with Ireland being divided is irrelevant. There are proper ways to go about putting your point across. You can support a united Ireland without supporting these terrorist organisations. Their cause, in my opinion, is warped.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agree that it is not the majority of republicans that want to go back to the troubles of the past. But i do think there is a lot more suport foe the CIRA/IRA than the press would like u to belive.

Regarding it being a warped cause, i would disagree with that i think that ireland is a sepertate island and is quite capable of running there own country without the britsh who have no right there and never have.

Okay, then while we're at it lets give Australia back to the Aborigines, America to the Indian natives, make New Zealand a Maori only island, get rid of all the white people of South Africa, Italy back to the Romans, and we can all sod off and make way for the Picts. In fact why don't we just kill everybody except for Adam and Eve and let them live happily ever after in the Garden of Eden.

Utter papp :bitchy:

[Woody1985]

Okay, then while we're at it lets give Australia back to the Aborigines, America to the Indian natives, make New Zealand a Maori only island, get rid of all the white people of South Africa, Italy back to the Romans, and we can all sod off and make way for the Picts. In fact why don't we just kill everybody except for Adam and Eve and let them live happily ever after in the Garden of Eden.

Utter papp :bitchy:

:faf:

Brilliant.

[Irish]

The majority of people on here(well, this thread) havnt a clue about the situation in Ireland. The IRA are not terrorists!

[Allant1981]

The majority of people on here(well, this thread) havnt a clue about the situation in Ireland. The IRA are not terrorists!


Then please excuse my ignorance and tell me what they are

[RyeSloan]

The majority of people on here(well, this thread) havnt a clue about the situation in Ireland. The IRA are not terrorists!

Brilliant point well made. Not.

[Sir David Gray]

The majority of people on here(well, this thread) havnt a clue about the situation in Ireland. The IRA are not terrorists!

I suppose they're "freedom fighters" are they?

Aye right.

The IRA (in all their forms) are 100% terrorists and the people responsible for the deaths of the policeman and the two soldiers are nothing more than cold blooded murderers.

[marinello59]

The majority of people on here(well, this thread) havnt a clue about the situation in Ireland. The IRA are not terrorists!

Well maybe you could educate us all. Where abouts in ireland are you?

[Dashing Bob S]

I suppose they're "freedom fighters" are they?

Aye right.

The IRA (in all their forms) are 100% terrorists and the people responsible for the deaths of the policeman and the two soldiers are nothing more than cold blooded murderers.

Of course they are (were) terrorists in all their forms. As were the ANC who fought for the liberation of South Africa, those who fought for the creation of the state of Israel (esp Prime Minisiter Begin who was considered a terrorist by our government) the French and Dutch Resistence to Nazi occupation, Ghandi in India and the American colonists who resisted British rule etc etc.

Some of the world's heathiest democracries have been created by terrorism.

The difference is, if they have support in their community, you have to talk to them at some point. PIRA/CIRA have no broad-based support in the Nationalist community.

[steakbake]

Looks like we have our arrest.

Unfortunately, Gerry and Martin weren't there to catch them red handed as some folk wanted and pull off their balaclavas (I would have gotten away with it too, had it not been for you meddling peace-process signatories).

Are those who expect McGuinness and Adams to be everywhere, doing everything happy with this arrest, or is there something else you would like them to contribute to the process?

Re The IRA - it has existed in all kinds of different formats. In my own personal opinion, the legitimacy of the IRA from it's role in the 1913 has varied in the years up to decommissioning. It has ranged from a legitimate force to restore national sovereignty to an organised group asserting the rights of the nationalist community, through to a bunch of murderous barstewards using politics as a front for organised crime.

[Pete]

Well maybe you could educate us all. Where abouts in ireland are you?

Probably Glasgow.

[hibsdaft]

Re The IRA - it has existed in all kinds of different formats. In my own personal opinion, the legitimacy of the IRA from it's role in the 1913 has varied in the years up to decommissioning. It has ranged from a legitimate force to restore national sovereignty to an organised group asserting the rights of the nationalist community, through to a bunch of murderous barstewards using politics as a front for organised crime.

nicely put.

not sure about the very last bit, (simply don't know enough about it). but either way the community support isn't there, and if this new crowd's plan is to try and make things so bad that they end up getting it (which it clearly is), then **** them.

[Hibrandenburg]

Looks like we have our arrest.

Unfortunately, Gerry and Martin weren't there to catch them red handed as some folk wanted and pull off their balaclavas (I would have gotten away with it too, had it not been for you meddling peace-process signatories).

Are those who expect McGuinness and Adams to be everywhere, doing everything happy with this arrest, or is there something else you would like them to contribute to the process?

Re The IRA - it has existed in all kinds of different formats. In my own personal opinion, the legitimacy of the IRA from it's role in the 1913 has varied in the years up to decommissioning. It has ranged from a legitimate force to restore national sovereignty to an organised group asserting the rights of the nationalist community, through to a bunch of murderous barstewards using politics as a front for organised crime.


nicely put.

not sure about the very last bit, (simply don't know enough about it). but either way the community support isn't there, and if this new crowd's plan is to try and make things so bad that they end up getting it (which it clearly is), then **** them.


There has always been an element of the IRA throughout its history that have used "the cause" as cover for their primary interest-criminal activity.

Would also be interesting to know just how many millionaires have been created on the emerald isle from donations to the brotherhood from across the pond.

[Betty Boop]

There has always been an element of the IRA throughout its history that have used "the cause" as cover for their primary interest-criminal activity.

Would also be interesting to know just how many millionaires have been created on the emerald isle from donations to the brotherhood from across the pond.
:agree:

[New Corrie]

Looks like we have our arrest.

Unfortunately, Gerry and Martin weren't there to catch them red handed as some folk wanted and pull off their balaclavas (I would have gotten away with it too, had it not been for you meddling peace-process signatories).

Are those who expect McGuinness and Adams to be everywhere, doing everything happy with this arrest, or is there something else you would like them to contribute to the process?
Re The IRA - it has existed in all kinds of different formats. In my own personal opinion, the legitimacy of the IRA from it's role in the 1913 has varied in the years up to decommissioning. It has ranged from a legitimate force to restore national sovereignty to an organised group asserting the rights of the nationalist community, through to a bunch of murderous barstewards using politics as a front for organised crime.


A bit of genuine condemnation would be a start and if they could stop being so economical with the truth regarding knowledge of terrorist activities it would be a help.

Of course in my opinion they should both be in prison, but sadly we live in a world where criminality gets rewarded with ministerial power.

[Dashing Bob S]

In any organisation that uses violence to further it's aims, you are always going to get a minority who line their own pockets with the proceeds of criminal activity. This is particularly the case where you have a huge black economy for drugs, as we now have in the west.

So of course some people in such organisations have made money from this state of affairs, just as in Britain many establishment careers in policing, military, armaments and the security industry have been built on the back of a war economy in Northern Ireland.

McGuiness and Adams are, ironically, now being protected from RIRA/CIRA thugs by a coalition of Special Branch undercover police officers, and their own private security of ex-PIRA men, now dedicated to making the peace process work.

It's pointless and reactionary to snipe at Adams/McGuinness being rewarded with 'ministerial appointments'; anybody with half a brain knows that the peace process simply couldn't have worked without them. They have moved on, and we should too, and get behind everybody who is commited to this process, be they from a nationalist or loyalist background, with a paramilitary history or not. It's only through maintaining this broad coalition that wreckers like CIRA/RIRA will be defeated. The old sectarian battles of the past have to be put aside.

[Hainan Hibs]

A bit of genuine condemnation would be a start and if they could stop being so economical with the truth regarding knowledge of terrorist activities it would be a help.

Of course in my opinion they should both be in prison, but sadly we live in a world where criminality gets rewarded with ministerial power.

Completely agree with all of that:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

Completely agree with all of that:agree:

Brilliant. Let's lock them up and forget all about the peace process and return to the good old days of the 80's where people in Belfast had to live in fear in an armalite-infested slum. Sound thinking.

[steakbake]

Completely agree with all of that:agree:

So would that be as political detainees?

[Hainan Hibs]

Dunno, ask Corrie Greens:greengrin

[Irish]

Looks like this is a site for huns yeah ? Irish connection my bollox!

[Irish]

IRA documentary Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKkbEb0CQU

IRA documentary Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS2uI-J3mrA&feature=related

Try get your head around the British propaganda

[Irish]

Brilliant. Let's lock them up and forget all about the peace process and return to the good old days of the 80's where people in Belfast had to live in fear in an armalite-infested slum. Sound thinking.

How the **** would you know what the people of Belfast had to go through? Armed action was the only option at the time. The Irish in Belfast, Derry etc were being burnt out of their homes, gunned down and spit at etc. all for being Irish . The loyalists started the "troubles" when they shot dead two bar men aged 17 and 30. Then the British army came in 1970, they were treated as "saviours" by the beleagured nationalist population who had been attacking their homes by the sectarian B specials and the RUC. Whole streets were burnt out an many people had to flee to the 26 counties.However within days the British army attacked the nationalist people. Their true role was oppression rather than protection,as people began to realise.

[Irish]

Would you like to name the last Republican convicted of drug charges?

:faf::faf::faf: Are you serious Adams and co being protected by the IRA? :faf::faf: Show what you know lad. We as Republicans see them as traitors and sell outs!

How are the IRA sectarian? Members of the IRAs army council were protestant?

[Irish]

Then please excuse my ignorance and tell me what they are

They are heros/soldiers that give their lives for their country and are criminalised by the British media.

[gringojoe]

They are heros/soldiers that give their lives for their country and are criminalised by the British media.

They are criminalised by being criminals and murdering terrorist ****.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Looks like this is a site for huns yeah ? Irish connection my bollox!

Nah mate, this is a site for Hibbies. You're in a room for open discussion so you'll just have to put up with other peoples views whether you like them or not.

[Barney McGrew]

Looks like this is a site for huns yeah ? Irish connection my bollox!

No, it's a site for rational discussion without having to resort to personal abuse.

You're on thin ice.

[hibsdaft]

No, it's a site for rational discussion without having to resort to personal abuse.

you can't go calling people huns with no good reason :agree:

[Cabbage East]

Don't be calling us huns 'mate', wee bit of advice for you.

[givescotlandfreedom]

They are heros/soldiers that give their lives for their country and are criminalised by the British media.

Do heroes hide nail bombs in bins in city centres injuring and killing women and children long after they've fled and hidden? No they're all cowards like you. Glad you're out the woodwork and showing us all just what your team's fans really stand for. idiot

[Allant1981]

IRA documentary Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKkbEb0CQU

IRA documentary Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS2uI-J3mrA&feature=related

Try get your head around the British propaganda


Its very easy to make a programme up with a one sided story

[Tazio]

If the IRA weren't/aren't terrorists then how does that sit with this definition of terrorism from the dictionary?

"terrorism
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

I'm no expert on international affairs but I recognise a terrorist organisation when I see one.

Incidentally I don't see the UDF, UVF etc as terrorists. I see them as gangs of murdering thugs carrying out reprisal at indiscriminate targets.

[Irish]

They are criminalised by being criminals and murdering terrorist ****.

The British army are criminals and murdering ****bag *****!

[Irish]

Don't be calling us huns 'mate', wee bit of advice for you.

What would you do lad

[Irish]

Do heroes hide nail bombs in bins in city centres injuring and killing women and children long after they've fled and hidden? No they're all cowards like you. Glad you're out the woodwork and showing us all just what your team's fans really stand for. idiot

Im a hibs fan? I don't support Celtic if thats what your trying to say?

When did the IRA do this? Give me the location like?

[Irish]

Its very easy to make a programme up with a one sided story

A bit like the British media then pal

[Irish]

If the IRA weren't/aren't terrorists then how does that sit with this definition of terrorism from the dictionary?

"terrorism
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

I'm no expert on international affairs but I recognise a terrorist organisation when I see one.

Incidentally I don't see the UDF, UVF etc as terrorists. I see them as gangs of murdering thugs carrying out reprisal at indiscriminate targets.

The IRA are an army not terrorists. The British army are the real terrorists in Ireland.

When did you see the IRA? Yeah, you read the British media, good source:rolleyes:

[Irish]

Im calling the Unionists/ loyalist huns not everyone.

[Tazio]

The IRA are an army not terrorists. The British army are the real terrorists in Ireland.

When did you see the IRA? Yeah, you read the British media, good source:rolleyes:

You are quite frankly a complete helmet. I can assure you that you do not know my views on Ireland. However I live in a real world where people who bomb memorial services aren't an army. Armies don't hide, they are out in the open.

[hibsdaft]

Armies don't hide, they are out in the open.

nonsense, guerilla warfare for starters.

the IRA are a form of 'stay behind' type army, like would of happened here if we'd been invaded in ww2, or in many other times in history. the fact that they aren't out in the open is down to context not characteristic.

not talking right and wrongs here or morality, just tactics and common sense.

we think that an army is moral and right if they have fancy uniforms and the power of state apperatus behind them because that is what we're used to here, but it means nothing in the grand scheme of things (aka history).

[Barney McGrew]

I don't support Celtic if thats what your trying to say?

Yes you do.


When did the IRA do this? Give me the location like?

How about Warrington for starters?


Im calling the Unionists/ loyalist huns not everyone.

Pish. You referred to this as 'a site for huns yeah'

[givescotlandfreedom]

Im a hibs fan? I don't support Celtic if thats what your trying to say?

When did the IRA do this? Give me the location like?

If you are a Hibs fan you should certainly change your club seeing as you call your fellow fans huns for not being as messed up in the head as you.
Here are some locations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/20/newsid_2515000/2515667.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/3/newsid_2519000/2519715.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_2544000/2544121.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/24/newsid_2523000/2523345.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/10/newsid_2539000/2539265.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/18/newsid_4165000/4165719.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/15/newsid_2527000/2527009.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/15/newsid_2496000/2496009.stm

That enough bloodshed or do I need to hunt for more?

[(((Fergus)))]

If the IRA weren't/aren't terrorists then how does that sit with this definition of terrorism from the dictionary?

"terrorism
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

I'm no expert on international affairs but I recognise a terrorist organisation when I see one.

Incidentally I don't see the UDF, UVF etc as terrorists. I see them as gangs of murdering thugs carrying out reprisal at indiscriminate targets.

Sounds like any "official" national army to me.

[(((Fergus)))]

The British army are criminals and murdering ****bag *****!


What would you do lad


Im a hibs fan? I don't support Celtic if thats what your trying to say?

When did the IRA do this? Give me the location like?


A bit like the British media then pal


The IRA are an army not terrorists. The British army are the real terrorists in Ireland.

When did you see the IRA? Yeah, you read the British media, good source:rolleyes:


Im calling the Unionists/ loyalist huns not everyone.

I'm guessing you're actually about 12 years old :greengrin


You are quite frankly a complete helmet. I can assure you that you do not know my views on Ireland. However I live in a real world where people who bomb memorial services aren't an army. Armies don't hide, they are out in the open.

Not entirely true, sadly, as the people who are cruise-missiled in Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan would testify were they not burnt to a frazzle. Nine times out of ten, troops who are outnumbered/outmanoeuvred in a battle situation will surrender, i.e., they only fight if they know they have the upper hand.

[hibsbollah]

The word 'terrorism' means nothing anymore. It is loosely used in the media to mean 'violence that kills civilians from men with guns who we don't like', as opposed to 'collateral damage' which means 'violence that kills civilians from men with guns who we like'.

If you want to understand the rights and wrongs of any tribal conflict, reclaiming our language would be a good start:agree:

[sadtom]

Some of the self righteous comments on this are bewildering. For every horrible attrocity the IRA have commited the british state trumps it 10,000 fold.
How about some more balanced views or does it not matter when its the british state who murder (there will have been several days at various points of history where the british state has in a 24 hour period, slaughtered far in excess the numbers who have been murdered at the hands of the IRA in its history, in all its guises), torture, enslave, bully, dominate, invade, set up and support puppet regimes, rape, occupy, starve, plunder all the natural resources, support/encourage companies paying less than a dollar a day wages the list is virtually endless and its global.
When it comes to the murder of the innocent this country can take NO lessons from anyone, we have been one of the biggest butchers the planet has ever seen.

Some people are against all senseless murderers/murders including the ones carried out by those who have the backing of the state and face no consequences for doing it.

Certain folk seem to get their dander up and refer to those who wrong our citizens as s.c.u.m. etc yet dont seem to think that logic should apply the other direction. The IRA are murdering ****? Do me a *****in' favour, they are small potatoes (no pun intended) compared to our inglorious history.

[richard_pitts]

For those of you who proclaim yourselves to be pro-IRA and are looking to re-start the troubles:

What's the difference between you and Osama Bin Laden's mob? I suppose that makes me a "Hun" then? Is anyone who disagrees with your particularly warped and stupid view of history a "hun"? I imagine that insulates you from the need to think. Why would it be ok for you to bomb Glasgow and not Al-Qaeda?

:confused:

Corrie - I have to say Sinn Fein did clearly condemn the actions and urged people to report the perpetrators to the Police. I'm not a fan of them, but they can't be faulted on that score. The peace process (which incidentally John Major must take his fair share of the credit for) is realpolitik writ large, and is really unpleasant in some respects to all concerned, but fewer people are dying and that's the least worst result all round.

Fergus there is a world of difference between what happened in Serbia in response to Serbian efforts to systematically exterminate large numbers of Bosnians and the real-IRA (Real??? what were the pIRA? the tribute band? :confused:)

[(((Fergus)))]

For those of you who proclaim yourselves to be pro-IRA and are looking to re-start the troubles:

What's the difference between you and Osama Bin Laden's mob? I suppose that makes me a "Hun" then? Is anyone who disagrees with your particularly warped and stupid view of history a "hun"? I imagine that insulates you from the need to think. Why would it be ok for you to bomb Glasgow and not Al-Qaeda?

:confused:

Corrie - I have to say Sinn Fein did clearly condemn the actions and urged people to report the perpetrators to the Police. I'm not a fan of them, but they can't be faulted on that score. The peace process (which incidentally John Major must take his fair share of the credit for) is realpolitik writ large, and is really unpleasant in some respects to all concerned, but fewer people are dying and that's the least worst result all round.

Fergus there is a world of difference between what happened in Serbia in response to Serbian efforts to systematically exterminate large numbers of Bosnians and the real-IRA (Real??? what were the pIRA? the tribute band? :confused:)

I was responding to the point that "real" armies don't hide whereas terrorists do. I believe that those NATO attacks also involved the indiscriminate killing of civilians by people who were well hidden from any retaliation. (Nothing personal meant if your location is significant btw, my uncle is also involved)

When the mujahideen were fighting the Russians, they used the same tactics as now and received funding from us. Now, however, they aren't heroes any more, they are criminal sc um.

As Bollah says, terrorists are just killers who happen not to be "on our side".

[New Corrie]

For those of you who proclaim yourselves to be pro-IRA and are looking to re-start the troubles:

What's the difference between you and Osama Bin Laden's mob? I suppose that makes me a "Hun" then? Is anyone who disagrees with your particularly warped and stupid view of history a "hun"? I imagine that insulates you from the need to think. Why would it be ok for you to bomb Glasgow and not Al-Qaeda?

:confused:

Corrie - I have to say Sinn Fein did clearly condemn the actions and urged people to report the perpetrators to the Police. I'm not a fan of them, but they can't be faulted on that score. The peace process (which incidentally John Major must take his fair share of the credit for) is realpolitik writ large, and is really unpleasant in some respects to all concerned, but fewer people are dying and that's the least worst result all round.

Fergus there is a world of difference between what happened in Serbia in response to Serbian efforts to systematically exterminate large numbers of Bosnians and the real-IRA (Real??? what were the pIRA? the tribute band? :confused:)


That's a fair point Richard although I was trying to imply that it always seems to be those who make the most noise that get rewarded. I am pretty sure that there are/were decent law abiding, educated, well meaning people on both sides of the divide who could easily have contributed positivley to the peace process. I think it's a serious kick in the bollocks to the populace to reward criminals with highly paid ministerial posts.

[richard_pitts]

I was responding to the point that "real" armies don't hide whereas terrorists do. I believe that those NATO attacks also involved the indiscriminate killing of civilians by people who were well hidden from any retaliation. (Nothing personal meant if your location is significant btw, my uncle is also involved)

When the mujahideen were fighting the Russians, they used the same tactics as now and received funding from us. Now, however, they aren't heroes any more, they are criminal sc um.

As Bollah says, terrorists are just killers who happen not to be "on our side".

Understood: the doctrine of the cold war - my enemy's enemy is necessarily my friend has a lot to answer for. Basically the west backed anyone fighting the Soviets / left wing regardless of how dodgy they were :boo hoo:

[richard_pitts]

That's a fair point Richard although I was trying to imply that it always seems to be those who make the most noise that get rewarded. I am pretty sure that there are/were decent law abiding, educated, well meaning people on both sides of the divide who could easily have contributed positivley to the peace process. I think it's a serious kick in the bollocks to the populace to reward criminals with highly paid ministerial posts.

Most of the politicians in Northern Ireland had a vested interest in keeping the troubles going one way or another :bitchy:

What's even sadder is that the law-abiding people who could afford to got out. Lot of Scottish Universities when i was a student had a huge Northern Irish population for exactly that reason :agree:

What really struck me as ironic about the troubles is I think it would have been Dublin's worst nightmare for Northern Ireland to be handed back - massive social problems, huge unemployment and 9 million stroppy protestants. Would have killed the Celtic tiger stone dead :faf:

[Tazio]

I'm actually very aware of the tactics and atrocities carried out by "legitimate" armies. However I was also bloody angry at the time I posted after reading the previous few posts.

[Irish]

I'm guessing you're actually about 12 years old :greengrin



Not entirely true, sadly, as the people who are cruise-missiled in Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan would testify were they not burnt to a frazzle. Nine times out of ten, troops who are outnumbered/outmanoeuvred in a battle situation will surrender, i.e., they only fight if they know they have the upper hand.

Yeah lad, im 12 because I don't agree with the British government in my country, well done.:rolleyes:

[Irish]

I'm actually very aware of the tactics and atrocities carried out by "legitimate" armies. However I was also bloody angry at the time I posted after reading the previous few posts.

What gives you the right to judge whether their a legitimate army or not?

[Tazio]

What gives you the right to judge whether their a legitimate army or not?

And what give you the right to declare them legitimate?

[Tazio]

You are a complete prick. Its called guerilla tactics son, Republicans wouldnt have a chance if they fought in the open as the British have the numbers and weaponary on their side.

No it isn't all guerilla tactics. Part of what the IRA did especially in the border country was. Bombing of civilians isn't guerilla tactics.

[Irish]

Yes you do.



How about Warrington for starters?



Pish. You referred to this as 'a site for huns yeah'

No I am not, everyone I know supports Celtic, didnt want to be a sheep.

[Irish]

No it isn't all guerilla tactics. Part of what the IRA did especially in the border country was. Bombing of civilians isn't guerilla tactics.

They have killed innocents. As has every army that has engaged in warfare.

Since you brought up IRA atrocities, why not mention the uncountable millions the British army has murdered and oppressed over the centuries. Not just in Ireland, but in Europe,Asia and Africa.

You have no right to judge the IRA when your own "people" have caused far more destruction and misery than the IRA could ever hope to accomplish.
Not as if they'd want too, they're not terrorists

[Tazio]

They have killed innocents. As has every army that has engaged in warfare.

Since you brought up IRA atrocities, why not mention the uncountable millions the British army has murdered and oppressed over the centuries. Not just in Ireland, but in Europe,Asia and Africa.

You have no right to judge the IRA when your own "people" have caused far more destruction and misery than the IRA could ever hope to accomplish.
Not as if they'd want too, they're not terrorists

Empty rhetoric from an empty vessel. I'm not defending the British army, despite the fact that my father served around the world for 15 years. And once again you presume to know my politics. I'm disputing your classification of the IRA as an army. And your denial that they were ever a terrorist organisation.

[Cabbage East]

Irish, I suggest you tone it down a bit.

You'd have to be an idiot to try and condone some of the horrendous acts the British Army have been allowed to commit not just in Ireland but elsewhere.

There's better ways to get your point across though.

Coming on here and calling Hibs fans 'huns' isn't the way to do it.

You don't have any idea what people's political views are on here, so take it easy.

[Irish]

Empty rhetoric from an empty vessel. I'm not defending the British army, despite the fact that my father served around the world for 15 years. And once again you presume to know my politics. I'm disputing your classification of the IRA as an army. And your denial that they were ever a terrorist organisation.

Are the British army terrorists?British atrocities are totally excusable because they are a colonial power?

[Irish]

Irish, I suggest you tone it down a bit.

You'd have to be an idiot to try and condone some of the horrendous acts the British Army have been allowed to commit not just in Ireland but elsewhere.

There's better ways to get your point across though.

Coming on here and calling Hibs fans 'huns' isn't the way to do it.

You don't have any idea what people's political views are on here, so take it easy.

I wasnt calling all Hibs fans huns. I was calling the loyalist/unionist element. Sorry if i offended anyone but was just a bit pissed off with the way certain members were talking about Irish soldiers when they don't live here.

[BroxburnHibee]

They have killed innocents. As has every army that has engaged in warfare.

Since you brought up IRA atrocities, why not mention the uncountable millions the British army has murdered and oppressed over the centuries. Not just in Ireland, but in Europe,Asia and Africa.

You have no right to judge the IRA when your own "people" have caused far more destruction and misery than the IRA could ever hope to accomplish.
Not as if they'd want too, they're not terrorists

In your opinion pal.......

As has already been suggested tone it down or :bye:

[Tazio]

Are the British army terrorists?British atrocities are totally excusable because they are a colonial power?

I wouldn't say that they were terrorists. I would say that they were at times a weapon of an oppressive regime with questionable tactics and policies. However you will struggle to find any official army that has ever been described as terrorists. In fact only one army has ever been accused of it by the UN. You are arguing yourself silly by repeating the same things over and over again.

That's almost 20 posts on this site so far and not one about Hibs.

[BroxburnHibee]

I wouldn't say that they were terrorists. I would say that they were at times a weapon of an oppressive regime with questionable tactics and policies. However you will struggle to find any official army that has ever been described as terrorists. In fact only one army has ever been accused of it by the UN. You are arguing yourself silly by repeating the same things over and over again.

That's almost 20 posts on this site so far and not one about Hibs.

Not totally unusual, plenty others like that.

[Tazio]

Not totally unusual, plenty others like that.

I've posted about Hibs I'll have you know.

Just get a bit bored being called a fud if I do :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

I wouldn't say that they were terrorists. I would say that they were at times a weapon of an oppressive regime with questionable tactics and policies. However you will struggle to find any official army that has ever been described as terrorists. In fact only one army has ever been accused of it by the UN. You are arguing yourself silly by repeating the same things over and over again.

That's almost 20 posts on this site so far and not one about Hibs.

What about the IDF? They commit acts of State Sponsored Terrorism, assassinations, house demolitions etc.

[Irish]

I wouldn't say that they were terrorists. I would say that they were at times a weapon of an oppressive regime with questionable tactics and policies. However you will struggle to find any official army that has ever been described as terrorists. In fact only one army has ever been accused of it by the UN. You are arguing yourself silly by repeating the same things over and over again.

That's almost 20 posts on this site so far and not one about Hibs.

well I came on here to post about Hibs then I seen this thread, read all the ***** here. My politics arnt welcome here so im not staying to long.

Who decides what a " legitimate" army is? The IRA are an legitimate army.

[BroxburnHibee]

well I came on here to post about Hibs then I seen this thread, read all the ***** here. My politics arnt welcome here so im not staying to long. Never a truer word said :wink:

Who decides what a " legitimate" army is? The IRA are an legitimate army.

Did you just decide that :faf:

PS. your politics will probably be more welcome here (http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/index/)

[Tazio]

What about the IDF? They commit acts of State Sponsored Terrorism, assassinations, house demolitions etc.

I will give you that. But my point is that only one government has ever been formally accused of terrorism by the UN.

The USA

[Irish]

Did you just decide that :faf:

PS. your politics will probably be more welcome here (http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/index/)

They proud of their Irish roots then? All you Brit ***** can stick you **** hun forum.:bye: talk to yis now you bunch of tossers :wink:

[Sir David Gray]

well I came on here to post about Hibs then I seen this thread, read all the ***** here. My politics arnt welcome here so im not staying to long.

Who decides what a " legitimate" army is? The IRA are an legitimate army.

A lot of my political views aren't exactly popular on here either, but I would like to think that I engage in decent debate 99% of the time.

The problem you have is not your political views, but the way in which you are putting those views across.

[Dashing Bob S]

It's a pity that this thread's been hijacked by the same old tired "the British Government did this" and "the IRA did that" stuff spouted out by those who can't or won't let go of the urge to score points on this issue. Yes, atrocities were commited on both sides, as tends to happen in hate-fuelled armed conflict.

The question is, do we wan't to go back to all this?

No.

People in Northern Ireland have accepted ex-IRA men in government, and these former terrorists have accepted the legitimacy of the British and Irish Governments in Ireland, or if not, have vowed to change things by peaceful and democratic means.

They've moved on, it's just a shame some of us over here can't seem to let go.