Well spoken that man

[poolman]

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..


Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'


'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'


Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.


:top marks




































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[Onceinawhile]

I hope you realise that; that is a complete and utter hoax:agree:

oh and failing that it has a disgusting racist undercurrent:agree:




http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

[The_Todd]

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said blah blah blah blah


I hope you realise that; that is a complete and utter hoax:agree:

oh and failing that it has a disgusting racist undercurrent:agree:

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

Oops. Epic Fail!

[lyonhibs]

I hope you realise that; that is a complete and utter hoax:agree:

oh and failing that it has a disgusting racist undercurrent:agree:




http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml

So either it's total *****.

Or it's intolerant bile??

Well played that man :top marks:dizzy:

The idea that Muslims that don't believe in "our" God are fear-worthy because they will obviously take offence at the Christian values (and aren't they always so perfect - has anyone READ the Bible - I'll keep my opinions to myself, but a lot of it is hardly a trusty manual on how to lead your life in the 21st century IMO) that surround them in a society to which they are not indigenous is absolutely blinkered.

I wonder if Mr Rudd/Howard/Sooty and Sweep/whoever did or didn't make this diatribe is aware of the basis on which their proud nation was founded, and what a lot of the "fights and struggles" from 200 years ago actually consisted of.

Ergo the systematic suppression and marginalisation of a entire indigenous culture and people, "The Missing Generation" and other "Highlights" that I'd be keeping schtum about if I was going to vaunt "modern day" Australia.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..


Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'


'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'


Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer...

And yeah, it's a hoax.

[hibee_boy]

even if its a hoax, its still good words.

[LiverpoolHibs]

even if its a hoax, its still good words.

No, it most certainly isn't.

[lyonhibs]

even if its a hoax, its still good words.

:confused: :shocked::lips seal

[Woody1985]

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..


Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'



Hypothetically speaking, if someone was to come out with the above statements some would be perfectly valid IMO.

I do believe that if people want to move to another country then they should embrace the culture in their new home.

I also think that people should learn to speak the language of their chosen country. IMO this helps people integrate into the society they have become part of a lot easier.

I think the piece I have underlined is the most relevant and one of the most important points.

The people who are shocked etc. What exactly is it about some of the above points that would appear to outrage you so much?

[alex plode]

Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!' 'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation..

Australia (and the US) were founded on Christian principles of NOT learning local languages and wiping out indigenous populations .:confused:

[The_Todd]

Australia (and the US) were founded on Christian principles of NOT learning local languages and wiping out indigenous populations .:confused:

That's a very good point. And since those settlers came from this country it would be a tad hypocritical of us to cheer on this xenophobic rant.

Also I hate being told I live in a Christian country. I'm not religious in the slightest.

[steakbake]

That's a very good point. And since those settlers came from this country it would be a tad hypocritical of us to cheer on this xenophobic rant.

Also I hate being told I live in a Christian country. I'm not religious in the slightest.

Here here. We should be a secular republic.

The republic might never happen, but secularism seems to dominate the legislative processes thankfully.

I'm glad that our PM doesn't ask god to bless our country at the end of everything he says, as is customary in the USofA.

[Dashing Bob S]

Australia (and the US) were founded on Christian principles of NOT learning local languages and wiping out indigenous populations .:confused:

The founding fathers of America, like Thomas Jefferson hated religion and had no time for religious intolerance. The right-wing Christian flat-earthers who until recently had an inordinate amount of power in US society, basically hijacked their way into influence, plating on peoples ignorance and fear, much the same as their Islam fundamentalist counterparts do in the east.

There is a separation between church in state in most western democracies (including Austrailia) for very sound reasons. People should be free to follow their own religious conscience, but without inflicting it on others, either through pressure groups of the machinery of the state. F*** them all and stick your Christian society where the sun don't shine.

[Dashing Bob S]

Alex - last post reads back like I'm sneering at you for advocating Christian society. I know that's ludicrous, I just put it badly. Apologies.

[McSwanky]

I'm waiting till the fans get back from Hamilton before I comment on this thread.

[LiverpoolHibs]

The founding fathers of America, like Thomas Jefferson hated religion and had no time for religious intolerance. The right-wing Christian flat-earthers who until recently had an inordinate amount of power in US society, basically hijacked their way into influence, plating on peoples ignorance and fear, much the same as their Islam fundamentalist counterparts do in the east.

There is a separation between church in state in most western democracies (including Austrailia) for very sound reasons. People should be free to follow their own religious conscience, but without inflicting it on others, either through pressure groups of the machinery of the state. F*** them all and stick your Christian society where the sun don't shine.

They may have hated religious intolerance but they were pretty much Christian to a man. Jefferson was particularly so, even if his was a fairly radical religion.

[hibsbollah]

Kevin Rudd is quite liberal in his beliefs. That is just like something his predeccessor John Howard wouldve said:bitchy: More like Dubya than Dubya himself was.

[Sir David Gray]

The founding fathers of America, like Thomas Jefferson hated religion and had no time for religious intolerance. The right-wing Christian flat-earthers who until recently had an inordinate amount of power in US society, basically hijacked their way into influence, plating on peoples ignorance and fear, much the same as their Islam fundamentalist counterparts do in the east.

There is a separation between church in state in most western democracies (including Austrailia) for very sound reasons. People should be free to follow their own religious conscience, but without inflicting it on others, either through pressure groups of the machinery of the state. F*** them all and stick your Christian society where the sun don't shine.

That statement's probably more intolerant than the intolerant religious types that you seem to despise so much.

I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread since no-one has actually made the statement that was supposedly attributed to the PM of Australia. However, I thought I would throw in my tuppence worth.

Let me start off by saying that I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to Britain and bringing their own religious beliefs and cultures with them, so long as they remain peaceful. People should have the right to freedom of religion. Most immigrants have managed to practice their religion, and fitted into the British lifestyle, in a peaceful manner (including many Muslims) and hats off to them. However, there are some people who will not accept the British way of life.

In terms of that article, I don't see a problem with a lot of what's written in it, even if it is a hoax. For example, I agree that anyone who wishes to live here should have a good grasp of the English language.

Unfortunately Britain is no longer a Christian country, in fact we probably couldn't live in a European country that was any less Christian, so anyone who hates being told that they live in one, need not worry.

The leading point of the "article" is about people who want to introduce Sharia Law into Australia. As far as I'm concerned, and I have said this several times before, Sharia Law has no place at all within the British legal system.

If it should ever be formally introduced in any way, shape or form in the UK, I personally would be on the first plane out of here and I don't think I would be the only one.

[The_Todd]

That statement's probably more intolerant than the intolerant religious types that you seem to despise so much.

I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread since no-one has actually made the statement that was supposedly attributed to the PM of Australia. However, I thought I would throw in my tuppence worth.

Let me start off by saying that I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to Britain and bringing their own religious beliefs and cultures with them, so long as they remain peaceful. People should have the right to freedom of religion. Most immigrants have managed to practice their religion, and fitted into the British lifestyle, in a peaceful manner (including many Muslims) and hats off to them. However, there are some people who will not accept the British way of life.

In terms of that article, I don't see a problem with a lot of what's written in it, even if it is a hoax. For example, I agree that anyone who wishes to live here should have a good grasp of the English language.

Unfortunately Britain is no longer a Christian country, in fact we probably couldn't live in a European country that was any less Christian, so anyone who hates being told that they live in one, need not worry.

The leading point of the "article" is about people who want to introduce Sharia Law into Australia. As far as I'm concerned, and I have said this several times before, Sharia Law has no place at all within the British legal system.

If it should ever be formally introduced in any way, shape or form in the UK, I personally would be on the first plane out of here and I don't think I would be the only one.


Remembering if (and I'll repeat that IF) Sharia Law is introduced to the UK, it will only ever be used in civil cases between Muslims, where is the issue?

It won't affect you. Or me. Or anyone else who isn't Muslim.

How do you feel about those British folk who go abroad and don't learn the local language? Or embrace the culture? Anyone who's ever been abroad will see it. I'm also willing to bet that most of those who flee the country in a panic if something as simple as civil cases being heard under Sharia Law won't make an attempt in any way to adopt to their new country either.

It's a two way thing.

[LiverpoolHibs]

That statement's probably more intolerant than the intolerant religious types that you seem to despise so much.

I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread since no-one has actually made the statement that was supposedly attributed to the PM of Australia. However, I thought I would throw in my tuppence worth.

Let me start off by saying that I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to Britain and bringing their own religious beliefs and cultures with them, so long as they remain peaceful. People should have the right to freedom of religion. Most immigrants have managed to practice their religion, and fitted into the British lifestyle, in a peaceful manner (including many Muslims) and hats off to them. However, there are some people who will not accept the British way of life.

In terms of that article, I don't see a problem with a lot of what's written in it, even if it is a hoax. For example, I agree that anyone who wishes to live here should have a good grasp of the English language.

Unfortunately Britain is no longer a Christian country, in fact we probably couldn't live in a European country that was any less Christian, so anyone who hates being told that they live in one, need not worry.

The leading point of the "article" is about people who want to introduce Sharia Law into Australia. As far as I'm concerned, and I have said this several times before, Sharia Law has no place at all within the British legal system.

If it should ever be formally introduced in any way, shape or form in the UK, I personally would be on the first plane out of here and I don't think I would be the only one.

Could you, or anyone else for that matter, offer a definition of this 'British way of life' that seems to be bandied around meaninglessly?

I love the final paragraph and I think you've said something like this before. I really do not know why it is a concern, it's absolute paranoia. Scared people are much more compliant, though...

[Betty Boop]

That statement's probably more intolerant than the intolerant religious types that you seem to despise so much.

I wasn't planning on commenting on this thread since no-one has actually made the statement that was supposedly attributed to the PM of Australia. However, I thought I would throw in my tuppence worth.

Let me start off by saying that I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to Britain and bringing their own religious beliefs and cultures with them, so long as they remain peaceful. People should have the right to freedom of religion. Most immigrants have managed to practice their religion, and fitted into the British lifestyle, in a peaceful manner (including many Muslims) and hats off to them. However, there are some people who will not accept the British way of life.

In terms of that article, I don't see a problem with a lot of what's written in it, even if it is a hoax. For example, I agree that anyone who wishes to live here should have a good grasp of the English language.

Unfortunately Britain is no longer a Christian country, in fact we probably couldn't live in a European country that was any less Christian, so anyone who hates being told that they live in one, need not worry.

The leading point of the "article" is about people who want to introduce Sharia Law into Australia. As far as I'm concerned, and I have said this several times before, Sharia Law has no place at all within the British legal system.

If it should ever be formally introduced in any way, shape or form in the UK, I personally would be on the first plane out of here and I don't think I would be the only one. You seem to be obsessed with Sharia law, do you feel the same way about the Jewish Beth Din which already operates in Britain?

[Sir David Gray]

Remembering if (and I'll repeat that IF) Sharia Law is introduced to the UK, it will only ever be used in civil cases between Muslims, where is the issue?

It won't affect you. Or me. Or anyone else who isn't Muslim.

How do you feel about those British folk who go abroad and don't learn the local language? Or embrace the culture? Anyone who's ever been abroad will see it. I'm also willing to bet that most of those who flee the country in a panic if something as simple as civil cases being heard under Sharia Law won't make an attempt in any way to adopt to their new country either.

It's a two way thing.

The issue is we already have a legal system in place that deals with civil cases. Every citizen in the country, regardless of religious persuasions and cultural backgrounds, should adhere to that law.

I have already said in another thread a few weeks ago that British people who emigrate to a non-English speaking country, should learn the language of that country and failure to do so is wrong.

However, it is up to those individual countries to implement laws that ensure migrants learn the language of their country. I am only interested in the situation in this country.


Could you, or anyone else for that matter, offer a definition of this 'British way of life' that seems to be bandied around meaninglessly?

I love the final paragraph and I think you've said something like this before. I really do not know why it is a concern, it's absolute paranoia. Scared people are much more compliant, though...

I knew it wouldn't be long before we conversed once again and I knew I could count on you for a reply. :greengrin

The British way of life that I am talking about includes one of democracy and certain freedoms i.e. of religion, speech etc. The people who have a problem with the British way of life do not believe in such things.

As for the last part, I am not concerned about Sharia Law being implemented, I think I said in another thread that I actually don't think it will be brought in.

What I'm saying is, if it was to be implemented in some way, it would signal my departure (and the departure of countless others) from this country.


You seem to be obsessed with Sharia law, do you feel the same way about the Jewish Beth Din which already operates in Britain?

I'm not obsessed about it at all, in fact I very rarely even think about it, except when I'm on here.

LiverpoolHibs asked me a similar question in a thread a while back and the answer is 'yes'. Like I said above to The Todd, we already have a legal system in place that every single citizen in the country (including Muslims and Jews) should be subject to.

[fergal7]

Remembering if (and I'll repeat that IF) Sharia Law is introduced to the UK, it will only ever be used in civil cases between Muslims, where is the issue?

It won't affect you. Or me. Or anyone else who isn't Muslim.

How do you feel about those British folk who go abroad and don't learn the local language? Or embrace the culture? Anyone who's ever been abroad will see it. I'm also willing to bet that most of those who flee the country in a panic if something as simple as civil cases being heard under Sharia Law won't make an attempt in any way to adopt to their new country either.

It's a two way thing.


OK.. for sharia law(lower case on purpose) to be introduced in this country, whatever way you want to portray it, it will have to be through a new Bill.

For that to happen it has to be passed twice through the House of Commons, then The House of Lords and finally The Royal Family.

Not a hope in hell.

For that reason alone...... Rule Brittania.

[Pete]

Could you, or anyone else for that matter, offer a definition of this 'British way of life' that seems to be bandied around meaninglessly?


You seem to be implying that there isn't a "british way of life" but there most certainly is....and even though it does sometimes get bandied about meaninglessly the fact that it exists isn't without foundation.

Sorry I can't offer you any specific definitions but wine has made me forget everything I learned from that sociology book that weighed 20 stone.:grr:

[LiverpoolHibs]

I knew it wouldn't be long before we conversed once again and I knew I could count on you for a reply. :greengrin

I'm nothing if not reliable... :greengrin


The British way of life that I am talking about includes one of democracy and certain freedoms i.e. of religion, speech etc. The people who have a problem with the British way of life do not believe in such things.

Democracy (such as it is) and basic human rights are unique to Britain? That's peculiar.


As for the last part, I am not concerned about Sharia Law being implemented, I think I said in another thread that I actually don't think it will be brought in.

Then why are you preparing a (very amusing) plan in the event of its implementation?


What I'm saying is, if it was to be implemented in some way, it would signal my departure (and the departure of countless others) from this country.

So you don't think it will be brought in but you have a plan in place. With reference to your comments on Beth Din; if you see them as comparable - why are you still in the country?

[LiverpoolHibs]

You seem to be implying that there isn't a "british way of life" but there most certainly is....and even though it does sometimes get bandied about meaninglessly the fact that it exists isn't without foundation.

Sorry I can't offer you any specific definitions but wine has made me forget everything I learned from that sociology book that weighed 20 stone.:grr:

Well yes, unless you can offer even a basic definition then it is a completely meaningless thing to say.

[fergal7]

Could you, or anyone else for that matter, offer a definition of this 'British way of life' that seems to be bandied around meaninglessly?

I love the final paragraph and I think you've said something like this before. I really do not know why it is a concern, it's absolute paranoia. Scared people are much more compliant, though...


You are so predictably studenty type, be controvertial for controvertial sakes. What about name checking some really obscure bands to make you look even more hip.

[LiverpoolHibs]

You are so predictably studenty type, be controvertial for controvertial sakes. What about name checking some really obscure bands to make you look even more hip.

:tee hee:

There isn't really much there that could be considered controversial.

[Pete]

Well yes, unless you can offer even a basic definition then it is a completely meaningless thing to say.

It's not meaningless because I have one...but wine has taken it away tonight...it's hard to quantify.

You seem to be full of answers with no specific content...just the suggestion that you might unleash your vast knowledge on those who disagree with you.


So I'll ask you...do you think there is "british way of life"?...and if not, why?

[LiverpoolHibs]

It's not meaningless because I have one...but wine has taken it away tonight...it's hard to quantify.

You seem to be full of answers with no specific content...just the suggestion that you might unleash your vast knowledge on those who disagree with you.


So I'll ask you...do you think there is "british way of life"?...and if not, why?

I'm not the one claiming the concept to construct an argument, so it's irrelevant whether I think it exists or not.

[fergal7]

I'm not the one claiming the concept to construct an argument, so it's irrelevant whether I think it exists or not.

So you think it might exist?

[Pete]

I'm not the one claiming the concept to construct an argument, so it's irrelevant whether I think it exists or not.

It might be irrelevant in your interpretation but entertain me.

Do you think there is such a thing as a "british way of life"?

[Ed De Gramo]

People who want to live in either country is fine....those who have nothing but contempt for there new homes can GTF :agree:

Hooky Hamza should be punted and never allowed anywhere near GB or Oz... :agree:

[LiverpoolHibs]

So you think it might exist?


It might be irrelevant in your interpretation but entertain me.

Do you think there is such a thing as a "british way of life"?

You're both asking me to define my position on a concept that, thus far, no-one has been able to define: yet one that you're incredibly defensive of?

[Pete]

You're both asking me to define my position on a concept that, thus far, no-one has been able to define: yet one that you're incredibly defensive of?

I've blatantly stated my belief that it exists. Hardly a "defensive" stance.

I've asked you a question on more than one occasion but you have yet to answer.

You're speaking about it like it's an alien concept, having a country that has a specific way of life or culture.

Do you actually do opinions?

[marinello59]

You're both asking me to define my position on a concept that, thus far, no-one has been able to define: yet one that you're incredibly defensive of?
Does any country have a specific culture or way of life then. And if not, do we have to respect anything or is it a survival of the fittest kind of thing?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

You're both asking me to define my position on a concept that, thus far, no-one has been able to define: yet one that you're incredibly defensive of?

The evasion of soul. And substance.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I've blatantly stated my belief that it exists. Hardly a "defensive" stance.

I've asked you a question on more than one occasion but you have yet to answer.

You're speaking about it like it's an alien concept, having a country that has a specific way of life or culture.

Do you actually do opinions?

Ha! That must be the first time I've been accused of being under-opinionated.

I'm just not sure how you can have such a strong opinion yet be so completely unable to define it. It's really odd.


Does any country have a specific culture or way of life then. And if not, do we have to respect anything or is it a survival of the fittest kind of thing?

I haven't said it doesn't exist!

It's questionable whether 'Britain' can really be considered a country, but that's for another thread...

[LiverpoolHibs]

The evasion of soul. And substance.

Erm, what?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Erm, what?

Ra Tat tat!

[Pete]

Ha! That must be the first time I've been accused of being under-opinionated.

I'm just not sure how you can have such a strong opinion yet be so completely unable to define it. It's really odd.

.

Still no answer...and no opinion.

Stop trying to avoid peoples questions with bull.

What's odd is that you're constantly talking yet nothing is actually said.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Still no answer...and no opinion.

Stop trying to avoid peoples questions with bull.

What's odd is that you're constantly talking yet nothing is actually said.

Jesus wept. Explain what you mean when you say it, and I'll tell you whether I agree with it.

[fergal7]

You're both asking me to define my position on a concept that, thus far, no-one has been able to define: yet one that you're incredibly defensive of?

British way of life......... Work hard, bring your kids up right, aspire to greatness even though the upper classes bring you down.

The avatar you have makes you one of us. Even if you are a tax dodging student!

[Pete]

Jesus wept. Explain what you mean when you say it, and I'll tell you whether I agree with it.

"Jesus wept"

If you put that in your post it has gravity. well done.


A simple statement: "The british way of life". You are unable to look at this statement and offer your opinion. You're making yourself out to be an individual who has nothing to offer appart from someone who can pick holes in others arguments.

I've put it in the simplest terms and explained why I can't offer an expanation that will satisfy your engineered brain.

...At least explain why there is no such thing!

[Pete]

British way of life......... Work hard, bring your kids up right, aspire to greatness even though the upper classes bring you down.

The avatar you have makes you one of us. Even if you are a tax dodging student!


I reckon he's fell at the first hurdle.

[majorhibs]

I reckon he's fell at the first hurdle.

You boys have done me proud the night! Engineered brain! Work hard! Fell at the first hurdle! Lovin it. :wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

British way of life......... Work hard, bring your kids up right, aspire to greatness even though the upper classes bring you down.

The avatar you have makes you one of us. Even if you are a tax dodging student!

See, again. How are any of those things unique to Britain?

And I'm sure there would be a few people upset at you claiming the Starry Plough as a British symbol. :greengrin


"Jesus wept"

If you put that in your post it has gravity. well done.

A simple statement: "The british way of life". You are unable to look at this statement and offer your opinion. You're making yourself out to be an individual who has nothing to offer appart from someone who can pick holes in others arguments.

I've put it in the simplest terms and explained why I can't offer an expanation that will satisfy your engineered brain.

...At least explain why there is no such thing!

Picking holes in arguments is actually quite useful. As I haven't used the term, there is no need whatsoever for me to say whether it exists or what my opinion of it is. Although I suppose it's quite telling that no-one is able to define the term...


I reckon he's fell at the first hurdle.

You don't know anything about me. At least you haven't resorted to making personal jibes in lieu of an argument. Oh...


You boys have done me proud the night! Engineered brain! Work hard! Fell at the first hurdle! Lovin it. :wink:

And you're quite an ally to have!

[hibsbollah]

It would be quite a good debate as to what a constitutes a British way of life, if you all hadnt get involved in calling each other names:wink: My take on it is that Britains 20th century cultural way of life is under threat much more from America (think Disney, McDonalds, Hollywood, MTV, American English, the growth of suburbs, PC, neo-liberal economics, The Marshall Plan i could go on and on and on) than it conceivably ever could be from Islam.

I could take the argument that Islam is threatening British values a lot more seriously if the people were equally as worried/angry/:grr: about say, guisers becoming trick or treaters, or AA Milnes winnie the pooh turning into a Disney creation.

[majorhibs]

And you're quite an ally to have![/QUOTE]

Getting all personal now? Last night I looked and looked but just couldnae find a Zippy smiley. You were fair scunnered, eh, still mooching about but nothing to reply. Oh how I larfed. Engineered brain into meltdown alert!! :greengrin

And for all your answers you still havent replied specifically to the question aked of you, or to the tax dodging bit! :greengrin

[LiverpoolHibs]

Getting all personal now? Last night I looked and looked but just couldnae find a Zippy smiley. You were fair scunnered, eh, still mooching about but nothing to reply. Oh how I larfed. Engineered brain into meltdown alert!! :greengrin

:confused:

I haven't been 'scunnered' by anything, I went to bed - is that not allowed?

What on earth is an 'engineered brain'.

This is getting pretty bizarre.


And for all your answers you still havent replied specifically to the question aked of you, or to the tax dodging bit! :greengrin

For, around about, the fourth time. I did not use the term, therefore there is no need for me to say whether I think it exists or not.

And I'm not sure how I can be considered a 'tax dodger' either. :confused:

[hibsbollah]

I wish youse two would just get a room:faf:

[Betty Boop]

Mon the tax-dodgers! :thumbsup:

[alex plode]

Alex - last post reads back like I'm sneering at you for advocating Christian society. I know that's ludicrous, I just put it badly. Apologies.

No need.
Good to see another controversial thread with some decent points being made imho

[majorhibs]

[QUOTE=LiverpoolHibs;1968274]:confused:

I haven't been 'scunnered' by anything, I went to bed - is that not allowed?

What on earth is an 'engineered brain'.

This is getting pretty bizarre.



You were still online 1.5 hours after having been 'scunnered' most amusingly by a couple of posters who didnt even appear to be trying all that hard, much to my amusement here on the nightshift, I only get online once every 3 hours or so on my teabreaks while I contribute to the Indian tax system so its not hard to see whose keeping late hours in the UK or not. And you were still around last night hours after the other 2 posters had logged off. :wink:

[Dashing Bob S]

It would be quite a good debate as to what a constitutes a British way of life, if you all hadnt get involved in calling each other names:wink: My take on it is that Britains 20th century cultural way of life is under threat much more from America (think Disney, McDonalds, Hollywood, MTV, American English, the growth of suburbs, PC, neo-liberal economics, The Marshall Plan i could go on and on and on) than it conceivably ever could be from Islam.

I could take the argument that Islam is threatening British values a lot more seriously if the people were equally as worried/angry/:grr: about say, guisers becoming trick or treaters, or AA Milnes winnie the pooh turning into a Disney creation.

Good post. So much of the implicit subtext for this so-called 'British Way Of Life' that gets trumpeted around by right-wing pundits seems just another way of saying "no darkies."

I think that Britain is multi-cultural society, where different values are held and several ways of life run in tandem with each other. As long as they're not trying to violently impose through either state or mob rule, their cultures on others I'm pretty much okay with that.

[LiverpoolHibs]

You were still online 1.5 hours after having been 'scunnered' most amusingly by a couple of posters who didnt even appear to be trying all that hard, much to my amusement here on the nightshift, I only get online once every 3 hours or so on my teabreaks while I contribute to the Indian tax system so its not hard to see whose keeping late hours in the UK or not. And you were still around last night hours after the other 2 posters had logged off. :wink:

Although it's nice to know that you're keeping track of me, I can only say that I went to bed and replied to the posts I had not seen when I came on here today. You carry on though, you're not looking odd or obsessive at all...

[Hibs Class]

Jesus wept. Explain what you mean when you say it, and I'll tell you whether I agree with it.

Serious question - can you explain why it's not uncommon for your posts to begin with this comment.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Serious question - can you explain why it's not uncommon for your posts to begin with this comment.

I overuse it. :agree:

[majorhibs]

I wish youse two would just get a room:faf:
Nae chance. I know who would end up having to pay the mortgage. :rolleyes:



Although it's nice to know that you're keeping track of me, I can only say that I went to bed and replied to the posts I had not seen when I came on here today. You carry on though, you're not looking odd or obsessive at all...

Well then you really should learn how to turn off your computer at night. Dont they teach you students anything nowadays? Obsessive maybe, or possibly just bored on the nightshift and wondering if its the same half dozen or so present and correct during the wee small hours when most are sleeping... :yawn:

[lyonhibs]

So in summary, what makes the "British way of life" values that much more unique from the hopes and dreams of any decent person on the face of this earth, regardless of race,religion or geographical location??

Who can possibly prove that this nebulous idea of a " British" way of life is "better" than any other??

As DBS says the word "British" and the hypocritical superiority complex that comes with it when its applied to a "way of life" (with all the cultural and legal implications therein, as if "we" are perenially right) is a shoddy way of saying "anyone who isnt like me is wrong"

What does a "British" person look/think like these days anyway????

GGTTH

[majorhibs]

[QUOTE=lyonhibs;1968422]So in summary, what makes the "British way of life" values that much more unique from the hopes and dreams of any decent person on the face of this earth, regardless of race,religion or geographical location??

Who can possibly prove that this nebulous idea of a " British" way of life is "better" than any other??

As DBS says the word "British" and the hypocritical superiority complex that comes with it when its applied to a "way of life" (with all the cultural and legal implications therein, as if "we" are perenially right) is a shoddy way of saying "anyone who isnt like me is wrong"

What does a "British" person look/think like these days anyway????

GGTTH[/QUOTE

Behave. Your the one coming out with this better than others nonsense. British way of life in Britain and having hopes and dreams and being decent, same as others in their country having their hopes and dreams and being decent, AND respecting others and expecting the same sort of respect back. Quite a lot of you nowadays are on this bandwagon where its cool to slate Britain, or "British persons" as you would have it. Whose got the superiority complex though? Is it you lot who like putting down Britain. Sure the government have made an ass of a lot of things and jumped into bed too hastily with the ol US of A, but does that mean that Britain and the British people are against anyone not British or not wanting to be like them? That seems like what a lot of you imply to me anyways.

[Dashing Bob S]

[QUOTE=lyonhibs;1968422]So in summary, what makes the "British way of life" values that much more unique from the hopes and dreams of any decent person on the face of this earth, regardless of race,religion or geographical location??

Who can possibly prove that this nebulous idea of a " British" way of life is "better" than any other??

As DBS says the word "British" and the hypocritical superiority complex that comes with it when its applied to a "way of life" (with all the cultural and legal implications therein, as if "we" are perenially right) is a shoddy way of saying "anyone who isnt like me is wrong"

What does a "British" person look/think like these days anyway????

GGTTH[/QUOTE

Behave. Your the one coming out with this better than others nonsense. British way of life in Britain and having hopes and dreams and being decent, same as others in their country having their hopes and dreams and being decent, AND respecting others and expecting the same sort of respect back. Quite a lot of you nowadays are on this bandwagon where its cool to slate Britain, or "British persons" as you would have it. Whose got the superiority complex though? Is it you lot who like putting down Britain. Sure the government have made an ass of a lot of things and jumped into bed too hastily with the ol US of A, but does that mean that Britain and the British people are against anyone not British or not wanting to be like them? That seems like what a lot of you imply to me anyways.

Funny, but I don't think anyone's fundamentally disagreeing here. All nations/societies are a bundle of good and bad things. Alcohol abuse, drunkeness, violence at closing time, an iniquitous class system, road rage, feral youth in sink housing estates, vulgar ostentatious consumption, etc etc are all part of our society in the UK, but they no more constitute a universal 'British way of life', say, than fair play, democracy, tolerance, cricket on the lawn, warm beer, looking after pets properly and an obsession with gardening.

I think most of us would acknowledge that people, when they go to live in another country, have the right to maintain their own customs and culture, as long as they don't contradict the laws of the host society. It's generally accepted that tolerance needs to be extended to incoming people of different backgrounds, but it also has to be stressed incomers should respect the society, nation and culture of where they've settled.

[sleeping giant]

Nae chance. I know who would end up having to pay the mortgage. :rolleyes:


Now that was very funny:greengrin

[Woody1985]

Sharia law can GTF for any part of the legal system.

How do you prove that your a muslim? How long do you need to practice something for before you are classed as a muslim? Do you just have to read the Quran?

People will start picking and choosing what law they want to use to suit themselves.

[BEEJ]

Could you, or anyone else for that matter, offer a definition of this 'British way of life' that seems to be bandied around meaninglessly?
I guess you really only get to understand what remains of British 'culture' and 'way of life' by moving overseas and living elsewhere for a while. :wink:

However its defined, too many of us British nationals have lost all respect for it. If we can't even produce a succinct definition for it, how can we expect immigrants to the UK to respect it? :greengrin

[alex plode]

Sharia law can GTF for any part of the legal system

Sharia mortgages have been operating in this country for at least 6 years now.
What problem do you have with them ?

[Sir David Gray]

Democracy (such as it is) and basic human rights are unique to Britain? That's peculiar.

No, they're not unique to Britain. What I am saying is, democracy and human rights are a part of the British way of life. I do not necessarily have an issue with people having different values to the British norm. However the values and the views that the people I'm referring to believe in, are in complete contrast to our way of life and the two, in my opinion, cannot co-exist side-by-side.


Then why are you preparing a (very amusing) plan in the event of its implementation?

It was hypothetical. Surely it's possible to say what you would do if a certain event occurred, even if you don't think it will actually happen.

For example, I would have a party that would put the Hogmanay organisers to shame, if Hibs happen to win the Scottish Cup. :greengrin I don't think we will actually win it, certainly not in my lifetime, but that's what I would do if it happened.

The same applies to Sharia Law. I don't think it will be implemented in my lifetime, but if it was, I know that I would wish to live elsewhere.


So you don't think it will be brought in but you have a plan in place. With reference to your comments on Beth Din; if you see them as comparable - why are you still in the country?

I see them as comparable in the sense that they are both religious based laws and that I don't believe either of them have a place within the British legal system.

However, I am also of the belief that any potential introduction of Sharia Law to the UK (regardless of how restricted that introduction may be) has far more serious consequences to the long term future of our legal system, than the Jewish laws that are currently in place.

Even if it was initially introduced with severe restrictions in place, there are enough hardline Muslims in the UK who would no doubt eventually call for Sharia Law to be extended, so that it governed more aspects of a Muslim's daily life.

There are already several areas in England, where the population has an overwhelming Muslim majority. If Sharia Law already existed, I could realistically see people in such areas putting pressure on their local councils and lobbying their MP's, by saying something along the lines of "Here we have an area where the population is 50% Muslim, we already have Sharia Law for some things, we believe those laws should be extended".

I don't believe there are similar fears regarding Jewish laws in the UK becoming more widespread. For a start, the Jewish population in the UK is about a tenth of the Muslim population (280,000 Jews in comparison to 2 million+ Muslims), which would mean that there is less likely to be communities that are overwhelmingly Jewish, coming out to demand further power for their laws.

As I've already said, I'm not in favour of Jewish laws existing within the UK, but I don't think their presence has the potential for such serious consequences to the future of our legal system, as Sharia Law does.

That is why I am not about to leave the country on the back of the existence of Jewish laws. Neither would I leave the country if the Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist communities were granted some form of their own laws although again, I would campaign against their introduction.

For me, Sharia Law is in a league of its own.

[alex plode]

The same applies to Sharia Law. I don't think it will be implemented in my lifetime, but if it was, I know that I would wish to live elsewhere.


Sharia's been implemented in the UK for years;just as jewish courts have been operating for centuries.

See you later :bye:

[fergal7]

Sharia's been implemented in the UK for years;just as jewish courts have been operating for centuries.

See you later :bye:

In what way wavy man?

[Pretty Boy]

Sharia law can GTF for any part of the legal system.

How do you prove that your a muslim? How long do you need to practice something for before you are classed as a muslim? Do you just have to read the Quran?

People will start picking and choosing what law they want to use to suit themselves.

Utter nonsense. To suggest one can 'act' at being a Muslim simply by reading the Quran is misguided at best. Does one become a Christian simply by reading the Bible, of course not. Becoming a full fledged member of any religion is generally a rather long process and i'm sure there will hardly be a mass conversion to Islam by the British public to 'benefit' from Sharia Law.

As for the question of Sharia law in Britian, it's a no from me. I'm a firm believer that religion should be a private, personal business practiced and taught in places of worship only. I include seperate schooling for Catholics, Sharia Law and so on in this. Religous laws shouldn't govern the land regardless of what religion said laws come from.

[Woody1985]

Utter nonsense. To suggest one can 'act' at being a Muslim simply by reading the Quran is misguided at best. Does one become a Christian simply by reading the Bible, of course not. Becoming a full fledged member of any religion is generally a rather long process and i'm sure there will hardly be a mass conversion to Islam by the British public to 'benefit' from Sharia Law.

As for the question of Sharia law in Britian, it's a no from me. I'm a firm believer that religion should be a private, personal business practiced and taught in places of worship only. I include seperate schooling for Catholics, Sharia Law and so on in this. Religous laws shouldn't govern the land regardless of what religion said laws come from.

You're talking nonsense pal.

If you have two separate laws there will be some that favour certain things over another.

The point I was making is what criteria would there be for choosing which method of law you decide to go on. Could a non Muslim choose to go via Sharia Law?

I wasn't saying all you have to do is read the Quran to become a Muslim. :faf:

Next time re-read something before you say someone is talking nonsense.

FWIW I agree with you on your second paragraph.

[Pretty Boy]

You're talking nonsense pal.

If you have two separate laws there will be some that favour certain things over another.

The point I was making is what criteria would there be for choosing which method of law you decide to go on. Could a non Muslim choose to go via Sharia Law?

I wasn't saying all you have to do is read the Quran to become a Muslim. :faf:

Next time re-read something before you say someone is talking nonsense.

FWIW I agree with you on your second paragraph.

How long do you need to practice something for before you are classed as a muslim? Do you just have to read the Quran?

Your words not mine.

Your other points i agree with, thats why i'm opposed to Sharia Law in the UK, one legal system for all is simple and in most cases effective.

[Woody1985]

How long do you need to practice something for before you are classed as a muslim? Do you just have to read the Quran?

Your words not mine.

Your other points i agree with, thats why i'm opposed to Sharia Law in the UK, one legal system for all is simple and in most cases effective.

Fair enough, I apologise. My questions were slightly ambiguous.

I didn't mean them literally. I was posing some questions thinking of how they would set up the criteria should it ever be introduced for any part of the legal system.

I certainly know that if I wanted a divorce and wanted it to be quick, more financially beneficial etc etc in my favour then I would choose one over the other. I'm not saying that is the case with Sharia Law but just trying to illustrate that people would opt for the one that suited them best.

Does anyone know exactly what the Jewish courts offer in this country and what manner would you choose to use this?

[alex plode]

In what way wavy man?

Is this a crossword clue ?

[Sir David Gray]

Fair enough, I apologise. My questions were slightly ambiguous.

I didn't mean them literally. I was posing some questions thinking of how they would set up the criteria should it ever be introduced for any part of the legal system.

I certainly know that if I wanted a divorce and wanted it to be quick, more financially beneficial etc etc in my favour then I would choose one over the other. I'm not saying that is the case with Sharia Law but just trying to illustrate that people would opt for the one that suited them best.

Does anyone know exactly what the Jewish courts offer in this country and what manner would you choose to use this?

They're called Beth Din and they're used in civil cases, mainly in relation to divorce but they also offer assistance in areas such as handing out certificates to Kosher shops and medical ethics for Jewish patients etc.

It's explained a bit more in this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm) article.

[majorhibs]

They're called Beth Din and they're used in civil cases, mainly in relation to divorce but they also offer assistance in areas such as handing out certificates to Kosher shops and medical ethics for Jewish patients etc.

It's explained a bit more in this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm) article.

Hey Falkirk, whats happened to your debating buddy Liverpool? Not like him to be so quiet with all his fave topics on the go and you having the last word on anything, surely the engineered brain hasnae gone and cast his science set oot the pram after a wee dusting fi P.D & Fergal? :confused: Dissapointed if thats the case. :boo hoo:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Hey Falkirk, whats happened to your debating buddy Liverpool? Not like him to be so quiet with all his fave topics on the go and you having the last word on anything, surely the engineered brain hasnae gone and cast his science set oot the pram after a wee dusting fi P.D & Fergal? :confused: Dissapointed if thats the case. :boo hoo:

As much as I'd like to leave you to get on with your little obsession. Can I just ask what this 'engineered brain' stuff is all about?

[majorhibs]

As much as I'd like to leave you to get on with your little obsession. Can I just ask what this 'engineered brain' stuff is all about?

Ah, your back, was worried you were in the cream puff there, :dummytit: you'd need to ask P.D & Fergal the exact meanings as they seem to have you weighed right up, mebbe's something to do with programmed thinking, cannae see out the box? :dunno: Anyway whatever it is it seems to fit you down to the ground imo :agree:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Ah, your back, was worried you were in the cream puff there, :dummytit: you'd need to ask P.D & Fergal the exact meanings as they seem to have you weighed right up, mebbe's something to do with programmed thinking, cannae see out the box? :dunno: Anyway whatever it is it seems to fit you down to the ground imo :agree:

I don't think they said it... :confused:

[majorhibs]

I don't think they said it... :confused:

Think it was one of them, along with tax dodging student feart of working hard, still its not worth getting your circuits in a twist & biting your electronic lip over, pretty sure "your engineered brain" was all in jest, as long as nobody at the "uni" gets to hear about it, eh? :wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Think it was one of them, along with tax dodging student feart of working hard, still its not worth getting your circuits in a twist & biting your electronic lip over, pretty sure "your engineered brain" was all in jest, as long as nobody at the "uni" gets to hear about it, eh? :wink:

So they did. As you were...

[The_Todd]

I find it quite odd that the folk throwing around accusations of having an "engineered brain" who've been "programmed" are the ones who seem to have lapped up the hysteria and hate-mongering stories of the right wing media.

If anyones been programmed, it's not LiverpoolHibs.

And as for tax-dodging students? My uni days are behind me now, but I cab assure you I paid plenty taxes whilst working to support myself, I put in almost as many hours at work as I did for uni. Sheesh.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I find it quite odd that the folk throwing around accusations of having an "engineered brain" who've been "programmed" are the ones who seem to have lapped up the hysteria and hate-mongering stories of the right wing media.

If anyones been programmed, it's not LiverpoolHibs.

And as for tax-dodging students? My uni days are behind me now, but I cab assure you I paid plenty taxes whilst working to support myself, I put in almost as many hours at work as I did for uni. Sheesh.

:agree:

And now would be as good a time as any to tell him that I have to pay fees as well...

[majorhibs]

I find it quite odd that the folk throwing around accusations of having an "engineered brain" who've been "programmed" are the ones who seem to have lapped up the hysteria and hate-mongering stories of the right wing media.

If anyones been programmed, it's not LiverpoolHibs.

And as for tax-dodging students? My uni days are behind me now, but I cab assure you I paid plenty taxes whilst working to support myself, I put in almost as many hours at work as I did for uni. Sheesh.

Find it quite odd d'you, mate? For your info if its directed t'wards me I've not seen ANY media for near a month here in Asia, believe it or not the only contact I bother having with anything is hotmail to my family, Hibs.net and the local sports channel, Star sports when its NOT showing cricket! Hysteria and hate mongering, eh? Hows about copping a look at yersel with the hysteria if you reckon I'm coming from the right wing via the media, and no just replies to peoples posts on here! Still if it suits YOUR way of thinking...:confused:
So you cab assure me your no tax dodger, eh? Fair enough, take your word for it, still I'm glad I never indulged in an extended period of schooldays as I would'nt like to have a chip on my shoulder and get all defensive about something I'd spent 4 or so years at every time somebody else was catching a wee bit banter about it. :wink:
Sheesh- you lot an yer Engineered brains :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Could we not just have a 'personal vendetta' subboard :confused:

[The_Todd]

Find it quite odd d'you, mate? For your info if its directed t'wards me I've not seen ANY media for near a month here in Asia, believe it or not the only contact I bother having with anything is hotmail to my family, Hibs.net and the local sports channel, Star sports when its NOT showing cricket! Hysteria and hate mongering, eh? Hows about copping a look at yersel with the hysteria if you reckon I'm coming from the right wing via the media, and no just replies to peoples posts on here!
Sheesh- you lot an yer Engineered brains :rolleyes:

Until someone comes up with an actual rational argument as to why we should all leave the country if sharia law is implemented for civil cases if both parties agree, I'm going to say the hysteria is only coming from one side of the debate. After all, uprooting yourself and moving to another country is an extreme step is it not?

[Mon Dieu4]

Could we not just have a 'personal vendetta' subboard :confused:

Shut it!!!!:grr:

[majorhibs]

Until someone comes up with an actual rational argument as to why we should all leave the country if sharia law is implemented for civil cases if both parties agree, I'm going to say the hysteria is only coming from one side of the debate. After all, uprooting yourself and moving to another country is an extreme step is it not?



Not really I found it quite a refreshing change uprooting, nothing extreme about it. As for sharia law being implemented I personally dont see why we should have to go to the trouble and what would no doubt be a big expense to implement something into our already large and complicated system. when I'm in another part of the world I abide by their laws and systems and dont expect anyone to cater for me, as you and I have both contributed lots to the UK tax system do you see it as fair to put even more onto the tax bill to bring in a system to run alongside a system thats already there? Turkeys votin for Christmas if you ask me. What exactly WAS it you were "further educated" in? Hope it wisnae economics! :wink:

[The_Todd]

Not really I found it quite a refreshing change uprooting, nothing extreme about it. As for sharia law being implemented I personally dont see why we should have to go to the trouble and what would no doubt be a big expense to implement something into our already large and complicated system. when I'm in another part of the world I abide by their laws and systems and dont expect anyone to cater for me, as you and I have both contributed lots to the UK tax system do you see it as fair to put even more onto the tax bill to bring in a system to run alongside a system thats already there? Turkeys votin for Christmas if you ask me. What exactly WAS it you were "further educated" in? Hope it wisnae economics! :wink:

No, in computing. Ok, so your point is it's a waste of money, fair enough. But other people are saying they'd flee the country if it was implemented, to me that suggests the problem isn't wasting money. If it was they'd already be leaving for reasons such as the milennium dome, MPs expenses and Tram works.

[majorhibs]

No, in computing. Ok, so your point is it's a waste of money, fair enough. But other people are saying they'd flee the country if it was implemented, to me that suggests the problem isn't wasting money. If it was they'd already be leaving for reasons such as the milennium dome, MPs expenses and Tram works.

Certainly wasnt the university of humour if you were taking those remarks as serious to make your point. Now if you'll excuse me its time I retired after a long nightshift so you & yer man LH can have the floor to your engineered selves.

[The_Todd]

Certainly wasnt the university of humour if you were taking those remarks as serious to make your point. Now if you'll excuse me its time I retired after a long nightshift so you & yer man LH can have the floor to your engineered selves.

Oh I have a sense of humour. I've got humour coming out if my ears, but I was under the impression that this was a serious debate. No idea where I got that idea from.

[hibsbollah]

Shut it!!!!:grr:

You and your engineered brain, you can ram it:faf::blah:

[Mon Dieu4]

You and your engineered brain, you can ram it:faf::blah:

I just call it as it is :grr:

[hibsbollah]

I just call it as it is :grr:

Did you learn that in your oh-so-clever 'university' with your university pals?:grr:

[Mon Dieu4]

Did you learn that in your oh-so-clever 'university' with your university pals?:grr:

Yes the University of Leith, YLT ya bas :wink:

[BravestHibs]

system.

If it should ever be formally introduced in any way, shape or form in the UK, I personally would be on the first plane out of here and I don't think I would be the only one.

Just out of interest, where would you go? The other English speaking countries Oz/US/Canada have pretty strict visa regulations for someone who just wants to up sticks and move like that and I don't think you could claim religious or political asylum because certain civil laws would have a Sharia Law option. So it looks like Europe would be your best bet. Which European Language are you fluent in?

Also I can't remember who brought it up but this idea of picking and choosing which type of law you can apply to yourself depending on the situation is utter nonsense. The reason Sharia Law is being called for is so that they can deal with certain situations that arise within certain communities in this case the Muslim community. What call whoever it was would have, to set up a Hallal butcher or be issued with a Sharia Marriage certificate is beyond me unless they are already deeply imbedded within that community which didn't seem the case with Falkirk.

The phrase I would employ to describe Falkirks post would be "Shrieking Hysteria"

[hibsbollah]

Just out of interest, where would you go? The other English speaking countries Oz/US/Canada have pretty strict visa regulations for someone who just wants to up sticks and move like that and I don't think you could claim religious or political asylum because certain civil laws would have a Sharia Law option. So it looks like Europe would be your best bet. Which European Language are you fluent in?

Also I can't remember who brought it up but this idea of picking and choosing which type of law you can apply to yourself depending on the situation is utter nonsense. The reason Sharia Law is being called for is so that they can deal with certain situations that arise within certain communities in this case the Muslim community. What call whoever it was would have, to set up a Hallal butcher or be issued with a Sharia Marriage certificate is beyond me unless they are already deeply imbedded within that community which didn't seem the case with Falkirk.

The phrase I would employ to describe Falkirks post would be "Shrieking Hysteria"

Why is it always the 'first' plane out of here anyway? would the second one not do, assuming it was only running a few hours behind the first? and wouldnt the first plane be awful full of scared anglo-saxons, crushed up like a load of paranoid sardines? A health and safety issue, surely:greengrin

[LiverpoolHibs]

Why is it always the 'first' plane out of here anyway? would the second one not do, assuming it was only running a few hours behind the first? and wouldnt the first plane be awful full of scared anglo-saxons, crushed up like a load of paranoid sardines? A health and safety issue, surely:greengrin

Miss that first plane and it's a dead cert you'll be beheaded for apostasy. :agree:

[Sir David Gray]

Hey Falkirk, whats happened to your debating buddy Liverpool? Not like him to be so quiet with all his fave topics on the go and you having the last word on anything, surely the engineered brain hasnae gone and cast his science set oot the pram after a wee dusting fi P.D & Fergal? :confused: Dissapointed if thats the case. :boo hoo:

I was just thinking that, myself.

It's been about 3 days since we last had an argu...I mean debate about something.

I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms. :greengrin


Until someone comes up with an actual rational argument as to why we should all leave the country if sharia law is implemented for civil cases if both parties agree, I'm going to say the hysteria is only coming from one side of the debate. After all, uprooting yourself and moving to another country is an extreme step is it not?

I assume this is aimed at me, as I am the one who said I would leave Britain if we ever adopted Sharia Law?

I think I gave quite a comprehensive answer a couple of pages back as to how Sharia Law has the potential to threaten the long term future of our legal system, if it was even remotely introduced.


Just out of interest, where would you go? The other English speaking countries Oz/US/Canada have pretty strict visa regulations for someone who just wants to up sticks and move like that and I don't think you could claim religious or political asylum because certain civil laws would have a Sharia Law option. So it looks like Europe would be your best bet. Which European Language are you fluent in?

Also I can't remember who brought it up but this idea of picking and choosing which type of law you can apply to yourself depending on the situation is utter nonsense. The reason Sharia Law is being called for is so that they can deal with certain situations that arise within certain communities in this case the Muslim community. What call whoever it was would have, to set up a Hallal butcher or be issued with a Sharia Marriage certificate is beyond me unless they are already deeply imbedded within that community which didn't seem the case with Falkirk.

The phrase I would employ to describe Falkirks post would be "Shrieking Hysteria"

I would attempt to get work in an English speaking country first but if that fell through, I might move to France. Although i'm far from fluent, I can speak some French, but on arrival I would immediately enrol in French lessons.

You can say it's hysteria if you want. The way I see it is, if I wanted to live in a country where Sharia Law is practiced, I would go and live in Iran.

[hibsdaft]

I would attempt to get work in an English speaking country first but if that fell through, I might move to France. Although i'm far from fluent, I can speak some French, but on arrival I would immediately enrol in French lessons.

France is sorted on this :cool2:

its a secular state and legal system. no religious crap in the way and that means no crap to upset people.

the law is the law.

it has nothing to do with any god.

this means France does not have crap debates like this one.

no shariah

no christian law

one law - secular law.

sorted :cool2:

Turkey's the same incidentally

:cool2:

[majorhibs]

France is sorted on this :cool2:

its a secular state and legal system. no religious crap in the way and that means no crap to upset people.

the law is the law.

it has nothing to do with any god.

this means France does not have crap debates like this one.

no shariah

no christian law

one law - secular law.

sorted :cool2:

Turkey's the same incidentally

:cool2:

Aye, France might have their laws sorted, only trouble is France is full of the French! I'm speaking from experience here, got a brother who lives there. :wink: (only joking about the French afore all the engineers jump in again) Might be a bit common but far as I'm concerned you cannae go far wrong in Spain, laid back as you like, all the san miguel you can handle and one or two days a year its sunnier than Scotland. :thumbsup:

[hibsbollah]

Aye, France might have their laws sorted, only trouble is France is full of the French! I'm speaking from experience here, got a brother who lives there. :wink: (only joking about the French afore all the engineers jump in again) Might be a bit common but far as I'm concerned you cannae go far wrong in Spain, laid back as you like, all the san miguel you can handle and one or two days a year its sunnier than Scotland. :thumbsup:


Id concur with that. And you dont have to do any of that pesky learning the local language lark or make any effort to adapt to their culture:agree:

[lyonhibs]

Id concur with that. And you dont have to do any of that pesky learning the local language lark or make any effort to adapt to their culture:agree:

Yup, just head down to the Costa del "Big Jim's Fish and Chip shop" and marvel at how similar everything is to Blackpool, soak up the sun, and congratulate yourself on having escaped that "multi-cultural" hell-hole full of reticent, lazy immigrants that is the once-great United Kingdom.

Job done :agree:

[majorhibs]

My my, arent the previous 2 posters enlightened? Following on from your posts and the way you present them I would say you've spent a week in Benidorm or Malaga and you know not a lot about what your dribbling on about save that week and what you've picked up in the press. But that would be ME jumping to conclusions would'nt it?

[hibsbollah]

My my, arent the previous 2 posters enlightened? Following on from your posts and the way you present them I would say you've spent a week in Benidorm or Malaga and you know not a lot about what your dribbling on about save that week and what you've picked up in the press. But that would be ME jumping to conclusions would'nt it?

You're perfectly entitled to post in any way you like, so please don't think i'm telling you what you do. But i've noticed you spend a lot of time being personal in your posts. You might find you get more out of this whole messageboard experience if you take the content of a post on its own merits, not base your comments on what you imagine the poster is like in real life:agree:

[BravestHibs]

I would attempt to get work in an English speaking country first but if that fell through, I might move to France. Although i'm far from fluent, I can speak some French, but on arrival I would immediately enrol in French lessons.

You can say it's hysteria if you want. The way I see it is, if I wanted to live in a country where Sharia Law is practiced, I would go and live in Iran.

What is your experience of Sharia Law? The way you keep going on about it you would think it had bludgeoned your girlfriend to death.

If you moved to France, secular or not, I can assure you that Muslim immigrants would affect your day to day life alot more than they ever could over here. Especially if you chose Marseille as your escape from the Sharia Law that seems to blight your life.

[Betty Boop]

I was just thinking that, myself.

It's been about 3 days since we last had an argu...I mean debate about something.

I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms. :greengrin



I assume this is aimed at me, as I am the one who said I would leave Britain if we ever adopted Sharia Law?

I think I gave quite a comprehensive answer a couple of pages back as to how Sharia Law has the potential to threaten the long term future of our legal system, if it was even remotely introduced.



I would attempt to get work in an English speaking country first but if that fell through, I might move to France. Although i'm far from fluent, I can speak some French, but on arrival I would immediately enrol in French lessons.

You can say it's hysteria if you want. The way I see it is, if I wanted to live in a country where Sharia Law is practiced, I would go and live in Iran. Iran does not practice Sharia law in its totality, in fact no Muslim Country lives under total Sharia Law, they only practice aspects of it. This is a myth peddled by scaremongers. http://islamexplained.blogspot.com/2008/05/implementing-sharia-in-government.html

[majorhibs]

You're perfectly entitled to post in any way you like, so please don't think i'm telling you what you do. But i've noticed you spend a lot of time being personal in your posts. You might find you get more out of this whole messageboard experience if you take the content of a post on its own merits, not base your comments on what you imagine the poster is like in real life:agree:

Stop telling me what to do! :grr: And you might want a wee dose of your own medicine and ""get more out of this messageboard experience" :tee hee: the next time afore you comment on MY views of Europe or the world. So stop imagining what I'm like in real life and being so personal.
Oh yes and for your & Lyons info, I'll be in both Spain and Blackpool within the next month but thats just the kind of bloke I am. :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

If I went to Spain, I wouldn't just head to Benidorm and join the ex-pats. I would make a great attempt at learning Spanish.

One country I had forgotten about is the Republic of Ireland. Since they're in the EU, I could find employment there and I wouldn't need to learn a different language.


What is your experience of Sharia Law? The way you keep going on about it you would think it had bludgeoned your girlfriend to death.

If you moved to France, secular or not, I can assure you that Muslim immigrants would affect your day to day life alot more than they ever could over here. Especially if you chose Marseille as your escape from the Sharia Law that seems to blight your life.

The fact that there are Muslims present in any particular country doesn't necessarily bother me. I am just not willing to live in a country that has Sharia Law. As others have already said, France is a staunchly secular country that doesn't even allow the hijab to be worn in schools. If there's very little chance of Sharia Law being introduced in the UK, there's even less chance of it being introduced in France.


Iran does not practice Sharia law in its totality, in fact no Muslim Country lives under total Sharia Law, they only practice aspects of it. This is a myth peddled by scaremongers. http://islamexplained.blogspot.com/2008/05/implementing-sharia-in-government.html

I didn't say to what extent Sharia Law was practiced in Iran. All I said was, if I wanted to live in a country where it is practiced, I would move to Iran.

Whilst it might not be used in its entirety, Iran undoubtedly adopts Sharia Law to quite a fair degree.

[hibsbollah]

Stop telling me what to do! :grr: And you might want a wee dose of your own medicine and ""get more out of this messageboard experience" :tee hee: the next time afore you comment on MY views of Europe or the world. So stop imagining what I'm like in real life and being so personal.
Oh yes and for your & Lyons info, I'll be in both Spain and Blackpool within the next month but thats just the kind of bloke I am. :greengrin

:faf: you're a hoot

[majorhibs]

:faf: you're a hoot

Better than being a serious, engineered hoot I can tell you! :wink:
hope thats not TOO personal for you HB.
And FWIW, there is quite a few non Spanish Europeans living in Spain with a more than adequate grasp of Spanish, although it has to be said there is a large contingent who are as pointed out not interested, funny thing though when in Spain I rarely find anyone is too fazed by it, but it does seem to ruffle a few feathers here in the UK. Something to do with snobbery in my opinion but thats a whole different line altogether.

[Pete]

As much as I'd like to leave you to get on with your little obsession. Can I just ask what this 'engineered brain' stuff is all about?


I reckon you have either studied social sciences at university or you believe in the principles of the subject. Those who have done either, in my opinion, have brains engineered to think a specific way.

Either way you answered the question I posed in the way a socoiology student would....with another question!!

It might be a valid question but it's infuriating when all you had to do was offer your actuall opinion on the subject of the "british way of life".

...which we're still waiting to be furnished with.

[Pete]

Better than being a serious, engineered hoot I can tell you! :wink:
hope thats not TOO personal for you HB.
And FWIW, there is quite a few non Spanish Europeans living in Spain with a more than adequate grasp of Spanish, although it has to be said there is a large contingent who are as pointed out not interested, funny thing though when in Spain I rarely find anyone is too fazed by it, but it does seem to ruffle a few feathers here in the UK. Something to do with snobbery in my opinion but thats a whole different line altogether.

For what it's worth, opinions forged from real experiences of the big, bad world are worth a lot more than those who form their opinions from textbooks...

..if they can actually offer some opinions.

[majorhibs]

For what it's worth, opinions forged from real experiences of the big, bad world are worth a lot more than those who form their opinions from textbooks...

..if they can actually offer some opinions.

Ach, you've got to be careful with these type of engineers, you get too personal like you & Fergal the other day and you wont hear from them for days on end! You'll cause another meltdown & the electronic dummy will be spat right out again. :dummytit: Still they're always back in the end, seems like their programmed to never accept defeat, even if they do go in a wee sulk every now and then... :wink:

[hibsbollah]

For what it's worth, opinions forged from real experiences of the big, bad world are worth a lot more than those who form their opinions from textbooks...

..if they can actually offer some opinions.

I suppose its not impossible to forge real experiences and read textbooks at the same time is it?:wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

I reckon you have either studied social sciences at university or you believe in the principles of the subject. Those who have done either, in my opinion, have brains engineered to think a specific way.

Either way you answered the question I posed in the way a socoiology student would....with another question!!

It might be a valid question but it's infuriating when all you had to do was offer your actuall opinion on the subject of the "british way of life".

...which we're still waiting to be furnished with.

I'm afraid to say I've never studied any social science in my life. Sorry to disappoint. And I'm not sure what the supposed 'principles of the subject' are.

You used the term and have yet to offer a definition, so it's a bit rich to expect me to do so!


Ach, you've got to be careful with these type of engineers, you get too personal like you & Fergal the other day and you wont hear from them for days on end! You'll cause another meltdown & the electronic dummy will be spat right out again. :dummytit: Still they're always back in the end, seems like their programmed to never accept defeat, even if they do go in a wee sulk every now and then... :wink:

Do you genuinely think I wasn't on here for a bit because I was in a huff?! Deary me.

And now I'm an 'engineer' rather than having an 'engineered brain'. This gets stranger and stranger

[majorhibs]

I'm afraid to say I've never studied any social science in my life. Sorry to disappoint. And I'm not sure what the supposed 'principles of the subject' are.

You used the term and have yet to offer a definition, so it's a bit rich to expect me to do so!

Right, so weve got to guess! I say your at the uni of evasive answers studying how to never answer questions and how to go from defensive to offensive while in conversation. A bit like military manouvres with the mouth. Which leads me to conclude, disappointingly, that were never going to get an answer to the question "what is LiverpoolHibs view on the British way of life" :boo hoo:

Do you genuinely think I wasn't on here for a bit because I was in a huff?! Deary me.

Yes I genuinely think you stayed away for a bit and were in a huff!

And now I'm an 'engineer' rather than having an 'engineered brain'. This gets stranger and stranger

No I dont think you work as an engineer, it was just a common thing lots of people do, shortening things, from engineered brain to engineer, but then you already know that, eh, just that your coming down to my level to play the game, nothing strange about it. :wink:

[Pete]

I'm afraid to say I've never studied any social science in my life. Sorry to disappoint. And I'm not sure what the supposed 'principles of the subject' are.

You used the term and have yet to offer a definition, so it's a bit rich to expect me to do so!


AARRGH!

I wasn't asking you for a definition. Just even a simple yes or no as to wether you think a "British way of life" exists. Why do you need my definition of the concept to do that?
I have a feeling I know what your answer is...but this is a conversational cul-de-sac if I've ever seen one.:rolleyes:

Anyway, who cares? Lets just all bask in the glory that comes with being a hibernian on days like this....**** the hearts!!:thumbsup:


p.s. Thank god you're not an engineer...chances are you would be dossing about you house tax-dodging as there's sod-all jobs....and that's from experience.:greengrin

[hibsdaft]

The fact that there are Muslims present in any particular country doesn't necessarily bother me. I am just not willing to live in a country that has Sharia Law. As others have already said, France is a staunchly secular country that doesn't even allow the hijab to be worn in schools. If there's very little chance of Sharia Law being introduced in the UK, there's even less chance of it being introduced in France.

yes and btw most muslims support the banning of the hajib in schools because they appreciate the secular state. you wouldn't be allowed to wear a skullcap or a big cross round your neck either. no special treatment, no contradictions. one law. easy.:cool2:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Right, so weve got to guess! I say your at the uni of evasive answers studying how to never answer questions and how to go from defensive to offensive while in conversation. A bit like military manouvres with the mouth. Which leads me to conclude, disappointingly, that were never going to get an answer to the question "what is LiverpoolHibs view on the British way of life" :boo hoo:

No, you don't have to guess at all. My point was nothing to do with whether such a concept existed or wehat my definition of it was. My problem was with people bandying round a term in a highly reactionary maner when they had made no attempt to define what they were actually talking about.


Yes I genuinely think you stayed away for a bit and were in a huff!

I can't imagine ever getting in a huff over comments on an internet meassage board, but you carry on if that's what you want to think.


No I dont think you work as an engineer, it was just a common thing lots of people do, shortening things, from engineered brain to engineer, but then you already know that, eh, just that your coming down to my level to play the game, nothing strange about it. :wink:

That's not shortening the word, that's changing it's meaning completely.

[LiverpoolHibs]

AARRGH!

Quite!


I wasn't asking you for a definition. Just even a simple yes or no as to wether you think a "British way of life" exists. Why do you need my definition of the concept to do that?
I have a feeling I know what your answer is...but this is a conversational cul-de-sac if I've ever seen one.:rolleyes:

See above...


Anyway, who cares? Lets just all bask in the glory that comes with being a hibernian on days like this....**** the hearts!!:thumbsup:

That's something we can agree on completely. :thumbsup:

[alex plode]

AARRGH!

I wasn't asking you for a definition. Just even a simple yes or no as to wether you think a "British way of life" exists. Why do you need my definition of the concept to do that?
I have a feeling I know what your answer is...but this is a conversational cul-de-sac if I've ever seen one.:rolleyes:

Anyway, who cares? Lets just all bask in the glory that comes with being a hibernian on days like this....**** the hearts!!:thumbsup:


p.s. Thank god you're not an engineer...chances are you would be dossing about you house tax-dodging as there's sod-all jobs....and that's from experience.:greengrin

P*sh post :wink:

[Betty Boop]

P*sh post :wink: :faf:

[Pete]

P*sh post :wink:

Pish reply.

However, some people are easily amused.

[Pete]

:faf:

Of course it's funny.

It's obviously the BNP...or the big bad Isralies...or the daily mail.


...what other subject do you comment on?

[Pete]

Still no direct answer to my question


At least I have the satisfaction of knowing whenever I put my hands down my pants I feel a set.


Grow some bollocks and offer an opinion.