Assisted suicide

[Sir David Gray]

Should euthanasia/assisted suicide be legalised in this country to allow terminally ill people to choose the timing of their death by getting a medical professional to end their life?

[Sir David Gray]

I am strongly opposed to assisted suicide. I don't think doctors should be asked to end the life of a patient, as it basically contradicts what the role of a doctor should be, i.e. to help people or, in the case of terminally ill people, to make them as comfortable as possible.

I don't support any kind of suicide, but when a person is capable of ending their own life, there's not a lot that anyone can do to stop them. It's a different story when you're asking other people to do the killing.

I should point out that I back the right of people to refuse treatment, even if the refusal means that their life will be cut short. I just don't support people being given lethal drugs that will kill them.

[Hibrandenburg]

In theory I think everyone has the right to end their own life when they want to. However the pressures for them to do so if it was legal, could also come from elsewhere. For that reason alone I'm against it.

[AllyF]

I'd like to see it legalised on the grounds that there were officials/witnesses there to confirm that it was solely the person in question who had chosen to die and that their choice was not influenced by any one else. There must be a way to make euthanasia legal without corruption.

Personally, I feel if I was in extreme suffering or severe paralysis I would like to have the choice to end my own life.

[Jay]

Anybody been watching casualty? Its been going through exactly this and is showing it from both sides.

I think in a perfect world it would be nice to say we should let people die with a bit of dignity and stop suffering but I have yet to see a solution to the problem. It has far too many grey areas.

However if I was ill and suffering with no way of turning it around I wouldn't want to live either.

My cat died recently and where I am not comparing that to human life it made me think about this topic.

Tom had been ill for a few weeks and was struggling to breathe, he had his chest drained and was on a multitude of medication, his heart was failing. He struggled to eat and was tired all of the time. He had no quality of life at all. He was only 10 so wasn't all that old for a cat.

Less than a week after his chest drain he went downhill again, they thought he may get a few months but it was not to be. I took him to the vet and they offered to put him through it again but I decided it was kinder to let him go. He was put to sleep very peacefully and died in my arms within seconds.

In the days that followed I spoke to my hubby and said why cant we do that for people? There was no way back for Tom and he was only going to suffer more. They said he may have gone on for a week or more getting more and more distressed. Had he been a person I couldn't have given him the peaceful end he got.

Its still no answer as obviously there are way more complications with human life and as said before I am not comparing it but it certainly made me think.

[Betty Boop]

Yes I agree with assisted suicide.

[Flynn]

Suicide, euthanasia and abortion are all valid solutions to population control (which no-one seems to want to talk about). In a world projected to increase to 9 billion people in the next couple of decades the human race will have to face the fact that there are too many of us. We need to get to a situation of zero or negative population growth as soon as possible or nature will do it for us. And it will not be pretty.

Of course no-one should be forced into these solutions,they must be an individuals choice. To quote one of my favourite comedians on suicide. "Life isnt for everyone. Life is like a movie. If it sucked every second it probably isn't going to get great right at the end for you." If someone really wants to kill themselves no-one (apart from family if they have any) should try and stop them.

I plan on checking out if I ever get a terminal disease that will kill me slowly and painfully with no hope for a cure. We put our pets to sleep when they are in pain and we call it being humane. Why not be humane to human beings too?

[steakbake]

Only for those who are in palliative care and wish to take control of events themselves.

I think we'd need to be careful about helping anyone who wants to die to do so. Depression can take people to dark places, even though physically, they will recover.

[Hannah_hfc]

It is a difficult one, if it did get legalised, as always you'd have cases of it being abused by certain individuals after the persons fortunes or whatever.

On the otherhand i cant imagine anything worse than living day in and day out in severe pain and misery, knowing things may not get better and knowing your close ones are also suffering as you do and in that case i can see how its fair to just let the person go, as mentioned before, we do do it to pets and animals.

Tough one, I am for it in extreme cases but i do think theres too many ways of it being abused.

[Killiehibbie]

When you watch someone dying a slow painful death it only seems right that they should be able to end their suffering.

[Betty Boop]

When you watch someone dying a slow painful death it only seems right that they should be able to end their suffering.
Hear Hear! :agree:

[ancienthibby]

Hear Hear! :agree:

So WHO gave you life?? Not your Mum and Dad of course, but WHO gave Creation its birth and all the human resulting births on earth??

Despite all the knowledge accumulated so far, not one single scientist can say: 'here it is: this IS how human life was created!!

So why should one human being claim the right to cease another's life??

[Zimmy]

Yes I agree with assisted suicide.

Me too.

[Betty Boop]

So WHO gave you life?? Not your Mum and Dad of course, but WHO gave Creation its birth and all the human resulting births on earth??

Despite all the knowledge accumulated so far, not one single scientist can say: 'here it is: this IS how human life was created!!

So why should one human being claim the right to cease another's life??
What has that got to do with anything? I watched my Dad dying a slow and painful death after years, suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He ended up a tormented soul, I doubt he thought "who gave me life". He died when doctors switched off the life support machine,which was keeping him alive. My Dad didn't want to be here, he told me as much, and if he had asked me to help him, I would have. Don't preach to me about claiming the right to end someone's life, doctors end lives all the time, hence "do not recusitate" on patients notes. We don't let animals suffer, so why should humans?

[ancienthibby]

What has that got to do with anything? I watched my Dad dying a slow and painful death after years, suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He ended up a tormented soul, I doubt he thought "who gave me life". He died when doctors switched off the life support machine,which was keeping him alive. My Dad didn't want to be here, he told me as much, and if he had asked me to help him, I would have. Don't preach to me about claiming the right to end someone's life, doctors end lives all the time, hence "do not recusitate" on patients notes. We don't let animals suffer, so why should humans?

If your argument is that animals and people equate, then you need much more help than anyone here can give!!

(And by the way, I don't preach!)

[AllyF]

So WHO gave you life?? Not your Mum and Dad of course, but WHO gave Creation its birth and all the human resulting births on earth??

Despite all the knowledge accumulated so far, not one single scientist can say: 'here it is: this IS how human life was created!!

So why should one human being claim the right to cease another's life??

Why should it matter "WHO" gave you the life? Essentially, it is yours. Thus, it is your choice whether you wish to end it or not.

[Woody1985]

Is that not a bit harsh? I think he's talking pish and is trying to say something along the lines the lines of it is gods will.

Not IMO.

I'm actually more pssed off at his reply to BB than the point he was getting at about God etc (feel free to look through my past posts about religion if you're interested on my opinion on that as I don't want to start that debate on this thread!).

I don't know BB or don't recall being involved in discussions on other threads but I'd imagine it was quite difficult for them to say the above on a message board on a contentious issue and obviously wanted some constructive thoughts rather than some babbling pish.

Edit: apologies BH but the sheer ignorance and insensitivity of his post infuriated me.

[Hibrandenburg]

What has that got to do with anything? I watched my Dad dying a slow and painful death after years, suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He ended up a tormented soul, I doubt he thought "who gave me life". He died when doctors switched off the life support machine,which was keeping him alive. My Dad didn't want to be here, he told me as much, and if he had asked me to help him, I would have. Don't preach to me about claiming the right to end someone's life, doctors end lives all the time, hence "do not recusitate" on patients notes. We don't let animals suffer, so why should humans?

I'm sure you would have BB :agree: Although we don't see eye to eye on many things you always come across big hearted and you take up the sword for the little man. My sympathies for your dad.

[Sir David Gray]

What has that got to do with anything? I watched my Dad dying a slow and painful death after years, suffering from Parkinson's Disease. He ended up a tormented soul, I doubt he thought "who gave me life". He died when doctors switched off the life support machine,which was keeping him alive. My Dad didn't want to be here, he told me as much, and if he had asked me to help him, I would have. Don't preach to me about claiming the right to end someone's life, doctors end lives all the time, hence "do not recusitate" on patients notes. We don't let animals suffer, so why should humans?

I have the utmost sympathy for anyone who has a family member with a disease like Parkinson's. I have never been in that position and I hope I never will be, as I am aware that it is a terrible illness.

It is an extremely controversial topic and I fully understand the views of people like yourself. I just can't bring myself to agree with actively ending the life of a human being.

I do think the "do not resuscitate" argument is slightly different, in that these people would die naturally without the resuscitation. The people being spoken about here, do not require any artificial means to keep them alive and as such, if they did not receive the lethal drugs that kill them, they would stay alive.

As I've said in my last post, I'm all for people having the right to refuse treatment, even if that means their life will be cut short. I just don't agree with people being given drugs that will end their life.

[Flynn]

If your argument is that animals and people equate, then you need much more help than anyone here can give!!

(And by the way, I don't preach!)

Human beings are animals, specifically mammals, just so you know. We share 98% of our DNA with Chimps overwhelmingly implying common descent. Thats the problem with god botherers, they are so certain humans are the be all and end all on this planet when we are just another cog in the machinery of nature.

[ancienthibby]

Human beings are animals, specifically mammals, just so you know. We share 98% of our DNA with Chimps overwhelmingly implying common descent. Thats the problem with god botherers, they are so certain humans are the be all and end all on this planet when we are just another cog in the machinery of nature.

Don't really have an issue with what you say, Flynn! I am happy to recognise your DNA point.

The real and critical difference for the human animal (man) is that he was the only one to be made in God's image.

No other 'animal' enjoys that distinction and privilege.

That'll do for me!:greengrin

[Petrie's Tache]

Don't really have an issue with what you say, Flynn! I am happy to recognise your DNA point.

The real and critical difference for the human animal (man) is that he was the only one to be made in God's image.

No other 'animal' enjoys that distinction and privilege.

That'll do for me!:greengrin


You seen him recently?

[Woody1985]

Don't really have an issue with what you say, Flynn! I am happy to recognise your DNA point.

The real and critical difference for the human animal (man) is that he was the only one to be made in God's image.

No other 'animal' enjoys that distinction and privilege.

That'll do for me!:greengrin

Is it maybe because other animals don't have the ability to create stories to have other people conform to their way of life / thinking?

Why is it a privilege?

Me too :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree it should be up to the individual to determine their destiny. However one thing concerns me, an awful lot of people who attempt suicide and fail say that they are glad they survived. I think that often it is the case that people don't want to die, they just don't want to live life as it is. In some cases there might be other answers, such as counselling and more effective pain relief.

I'm not saying yeah, or nay, just pointing out there are many issues to be considered, and there is often no simple answer.

[ancienthibby]

You seen him recently?

Indeedie!!

I see Him in all the wonder of our natural environment every day!

I have seen Him in the gracious and merciful actions of caring nurses and doctors during two recent stays in hospital!

And I feel His hand on my life every day!

And He may well touch your life!:agree:

[ancienthibby]

Is it maybe because other animals don't have the ability to create stories to have other people conform to their way of life / thinking?

Why is it a privilege?

Me too :greengrin

Woody, when He does touch your life in some way, you'll understand fully!:agree:

[SlickShoes]

Woody, when He does touch your life in some way, you'll understand fully!:agree:

So when a 23 year old gets cancer and dies a slow painful death, god is touching there life? When i child is run down by a drunk driver, thats an act of god touching someones life?

Sounds like a great guy.

Through great suffering people should be allowed to end it, my papa suffered through dementia and i know he would never have wanted to end up the way he did, i knew he was still in there somewhere but he wasnt the same person he was a few years before the disease struck. If i had to go through something like that i wouldnt specifically want to die but it is the only way to end the suffering you are in and your family is in before it gets even worse.

It would be very hard to police though thats the hardest thing, everything becomes corrupt as bad people exist in all walks of life and im sure someone would find a way to abuse the system if it was legal.

[New Corrie]

Indeedie!!

I see Him in all the wonder of our natural environment every day!

I have seen Him in the gracious and merciful actions of caring nurses and doctors during two recent stays in hospital!

And I feel His hand on my life every day!

And He may well touch your life!:agree:


Comes anywhere near me and he'll get a toe in the sack.

[Woody1985]

Indeedie!!

I see Him in all the wonder of our natural environment every day!

I have seen Him in the gracious and merciful actions of caring nurses and doctors during two recent stays in hospital!

And I feel His hand on my life every day!

And He may well touch your life!:agree:


:LOL:

This is the comment that you said to BettyBoop.

"If your argument is that animals and people equate, then you need much more help than anyone here can give!!

(And by the way, I don't preach!)"

I think you should read it and see if it could be applied elsewhere.

I really hope that someone can prove one day that life was started in a particular way, whether it be some big guy in the sky, or by chance (like most logical people think).

Hopefully if it is proved that there is no god then we can get rid of all this religious pish that causes divide throughout humanity.

Anyway, this is way off topic. Start another one about God :blah::blah::blah: etc etc etc if you want to discuss further.

[ancienthibby]

:LOL:

This is the comment that you said to BettyBoop.

"If your argument is that animals and people equate, then you need much more help than anyone here can give!!

(And by the way, I don't preach!)"

I think you should read it and see if it could be applied elsewhere.

I really hope that someone can prove one day that life was started in a particular way, whether it be some big guy in the sky, or by chance (like most logical people think).

Hopefully if it is proved that there is no god then we can get rid of all this religious pish that causes divide throughout humanity.

Anyway, this is way off topic. Start another one about God :blah::blah::blah: etc etc etc if you want to discuss further.

Not quite sure, Woody, if this is what you are referring to?? I do not preach, just give some insights along the way to where I believe the hand of God is on my life. I am not preaching at you to believe -I'm rather just living the experience and letting God do the key work!!:thumbsup:

[Petrie's Tache]

Indeedie!!

I see Him in all the wonder of our natural environment every day!

I have seen Him in the gracious and merciful actions of caring nurses and doctors during two recent stays in hospital!

And I feel His hand on my life every day!

And He may well touch your life!:agree:

And HE is human in looks then? As man was created in his image? (ref to other post!)

[ancienthibby]

and he is human in looks then? As man was created in his image? (ref to other post!)

q.e.d.

[Woody1985]

People really need to get a reality check with this god malarky.

I was reading the paper just now, a guy shot his girlfriend in an accident whilst cleaning a gun (a few days after he completed a gun safety course?!). The quote from her father "I'm not quite sure I understand it but I'm sure god has a plan".

WTF!!!! Your daughter has just died through an accident because some guy forgot to check if the gun was loaded. Does god posess mind controlling powers now that makes people forget things?

You may notice that I never use capitals for god. This is intentional and I don't think it even warrants the extra half second to hold the shift key. IMO it's make believe and ridiculous beyond comprehension.

It's comparitive with people in Africa believing that albinos are possessed by the devil and should be killed. Science has proved it's to do with skin pigmentation, hopefully one day science will put an end to all this god talk...

[ancienthibby]

People really need to get a reality check with this god malarky.

I was reading the paper just now, a guy shot his girlfriend in an accident whilst cleaning a gun (a few days after he completed a gun safety course?!). The quote from her father "I'm not quite sure I understand it but I'm sure god has a plan".

WTF!!!! Your daughter has just died through an accident because some guy forgot to check if the gun was loaded. Does god posess mind controlling powers now that makes people forget things?

You may notice that I never use capitals for god. This is intentional and I don't think it even warrants the extra half second to hold the shift key. IMO it's make believe and ridiculous beyond comprehension.

It's comparitive with people in Africa believing that albinos are possessed by the devil and should be killed. Science has proved it's to do with skin pigmentation, hopefully one day science will put an end to all this god talk...

That'll be you still in waiting mode for God to touch your life!!:cool2:

[Woody1985]

Does anyone know how to block comments from someone? :wink:

[steakbake]

So when a 23 year old gets cancer and dies a slow painful death, god is touching there life? When i child is run down by a drunk driver, thats an act of god touching someones life?

Sounds like a great guy.


Depending who you speak to, that's Satan who does that :devil: Not the Almighty. Or at least, he's not there when that happens. According to some others you speak to, it is the Will of God.

[ancienthibby]

Does anyone know how to block comments from someone? :wink:
Don't post:wink::wink:

[Petrie's Tache]

q.e.d.

So you speak latin.........................that's nice.


Now can you answer my original question rather than skirting around the issue. How can you tell me man is created in gods image if no one has seen him?

[ancienthibby]

So you speak latin.........................that's nice.


Now can you answer my original question rather than skirting around the issue. How can you tell me man is created in gods image if no one has seen him?

Betty,

Here's your answer:

http://bible.cc/parallel2.gifInternational Standard Version (http://isv.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©2008) (http://isv.org/)
Jesus said to him, "Is it because you have seen me that you have believed? How blessed are those who have never seen me and yet have believed!"New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Jesus said to Thomas, "You believe because you've seen me. Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe."
King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
American King James Version (http://kjv.us/john/20.htm)
Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
American Standard Version (http://asvbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Bible in Basic English (http://basicenglishbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen me you have belief: a blessing will be on those who have belief though they have not seen me!
Douay-Rheims Bible (http://drb.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
Darby Bible Translation (http://darbybible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus says to him, Because thou hast seen me thou hast believed: blessed they who have not seen and have believed.
English Revised Version (http://erv.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Rgds,
AH.

[Hibrandenburg]

People really need to get a reality check with this god malarky.

I was reading the paper just now, a guy shot his girlfriend in an accident whilst cleaning a gun (a few days after he completed a gun safety course?!). The quote from her father "I'm not quite sure I understand it but I'm sure god has a plan".

WTF!!!! Your daughter has just died through an accident because some guy forgot to check if the gun was loaded. Does god posess mind controlling powers now that makes people forget things?

You may notice that I never use capitals for god. This is intentional and I don't think it even warrants the extra half second to hold the shift key. IMO it's make believe and ridiculous beyond comprehension.

It's comparitive with people in Africa believing that albinos are possessed by the devil and should be killed. Science has proved it's to do with skin pigmentation, hopefully one day science will put an end to all this god talk...

:agree:

Believing is the easy way out. If you can't explain something then put it down to some god or another.

[Hibrandenburg]

Comes anywhere near me and he'll get a toe in the sack.

:faf:

What if woman has been made in his image and not man?

[Nando™]

You can ram your religion vs science battle.

If somebody wants to die then night night...

[Petrie's Tache]

Betty,

Here's your answer:

http://bible.cc/parallel2.gifInternational Standard Version (http://isv.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©2008) (http://isv.org/)
Jesus said to him, "Is it because you have seen me that you have believed? How blessed are those who have never seen me and yet have believed!"New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Jesus said to Thomas, "You believe because you've seen me. Blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe."
King James Bible (http://kingjbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
American King James Version (http://kjv.us/john/20.htm)
Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
American Standard Version (http://asvbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Bible in Basic English (http://basicenglishbible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus said to him, Because you have seen me you have belief: a blessing will be on those who have belief though they have not seen me!
Douay-Rheims Bible (http://drb.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
Darby Bible Translation (http://darbybible.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus says to him, Because thou hast seen me thou hast believed: blessed they who have not seen and have believed.
English Revised Version (http://erv.scripturetext.com/john/20.htm)
Jesus saith unto him, Because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Rgds,
AH.


Who he?












PS For what it is worth Jesus the man I believe may have existed, however Jesus the son of God and in an immaculate conception..........................:faf:.

[Petrie's Tache]

Comes anywhere near me and he'll get a toe in the sack.

:faf:

What if woman has been made in his image and not man?


Like your thinking and could be true:agree: Because lets face it if God WAS a man he would never have exposed testicles so much:greengrin

[Woody1985]

Don't post:wink::wink:

:LOL:

If you actally contributed something constructive to any of the points raised whether it be euthanasia, religion or science I might actually pay some attention to you but you just babble pish at every oportunity.

[Sir David Gray]

:agree:

Believing is the easy way out. If you can't explain something then put it down to some god or another.

I can understand why Atheists think that.

I don't think it is "the easy way out". Having a faith is extremely strong and people do genuinely believe that God influences everything that happens in their life. When they put something down to God, it's not a cop-out and a way of getting yourself out of a difficult argument, it's just what they genuinely believe.


PS For what it is worth Jesus the man I believe may have existed, however Jesus the son of God and in an immaculate conception :faf:

You may not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but there is evidence to prove that Jesus, the man, existed. The vast majority of historians accept this as fact.

[Petrie's Tache]

I can understand why Atheists think that.

I don't think it is "the easy way out". Having a faith is extremely strong and people do genuinely believe that God influences everything that happens in their life. When they put something down to God, it's not a cop-out and a way of getting yourself out of a difficult argument, it's just what they genuinely believe.



You may not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but there is evidence to prove that Jesus, the man, existed. The vast majority of historians accept this as fact.


Hence why I do not dispute that point.:wink:

[Sir David Gray]

Hence why I do not dispute that point.:wink:

You said you don't dispute that he MAY have existed, that tends to suggest that you're still in some doubt.

[Jay]

You said you don't dispute that he MAY have existed, that tends to suggest that you're still in some doubt.

Ah but if he did exist Falkirk I suspect he wasn't conceived naturally - thats not a good thing :wink:

[Petrie's Tache]

You said you don't dispute that he MAY have existed, that tends to suggest that you're still in some doubt.

Yes he MAY, no dispute to the man just to as who he was.

However as a person I tend to require comprehensive proof. Just my way of looking at things that is all.


However :
He MAY have the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He MAY have not been of virgin birth. He MAY have not died on the Cross. He MAY have married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He MAY have died sometime after AD 64.

To me this is just as plausible as the writings in the bible and has been extracted from the dead sea scrolls and and the gospel.

Just shows you what can happen with interpretation:agree:

[ancienthibby]

Who he?












PS For what it is worth Jesus the man I believe may have existed, however Jesus the son of God and in an immaculate conception..........................:faf:.

Betty,

Some Scripture for you to seriously reflect on:

<< (http://bible.cc/galatians/6-6.htm) Galatians 6:7 >> (http://bible.cc/galatians/6-8.htm)

http://bible.cc/parallel2.gifInternational Standard Version (http://isv.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©2008) (http://isv.org/)
Stop being deceived; God is not to be ridiculed. A person harvests whatever he plants:New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Make no mistake about this: You can never make a fool out of God. Whatever you plant is what you'll harvest.

[ancienthibby]

:LOL:

If you actally contributed something constructive to any of the points raised whether it be euthanasia, religion or science I might actually pay some attention to you but you just babble pish at every oportunity.

Woody,

Here's a wee bit of friendly advice:

You are wasting your time and effort trying to wind me up, slag me off, cast 'nasturstiums' in my direction. It has no effect!!

I am too long in the tooth, too wizened, too ancient and too strong in my beliefs that your flood of personal arrows will have no effect on me!

Sorry to disappoint you - find something useful to do!

Rgds.
AH :greengrin:greengrin

[Woody1985]

Woody,

Here's a wee bit of friendly advice:

You are wasting your time and effort trying to wind me up, slag me off, cast 'nasturstiums' in my direction. It has no effect!!

I am too long in the tooth, too wizened, too ancient and too strong in my beliefs that your flood of personal arrows will have no effect on me!

Sorry to disappoint you - find something useful to do!

Rgds.
AH :greengrin:greengrin

I'm not trying to wind you up...

I've made a number of valid points and tried to enter into debate about some of the issues raised, as have others, but all you say is He touched me, you've not been touched by god etc etc etc.

You've never had the consideration to look at any of the real issues raised as part of any of the points and personally that's why I can't be bothered with your replies.

[BroxburnHibee]

Guys lets try and get back to the subject matter.

I hate stifling debates on here but please respect other people's beliefs/points of view whether you agree or not.

Any more of the silly stuff and the thread will be locked.

[Hibrandenburg]

I can understand why Atheists think that.

I don't think it is "the easy way out". Having a faith is extremely strong and people do genuinely believe that God influences everything that happens in their life. When they put something down to God, it's not a cop-out and a way of getting yourself out of a difficult argument, it's just what they genuinely believe.



You may not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but there is evidence to prove that Jesus, the man, existed. The vast majority of historians accept this as fact.

For me it is though mate. The one thing I hate most is being left in the dark about anything or nobody being able to explain something. I hate not having answers. To explain things we don't yet understand as being of gods hand is IMO taking the easy way out.

Also from a mathematical view point it's the easy way:


God exists:

If you believe in him your reward is heaven.
If you don't believe your punishment is hell.

God doesn't exist:

If you believe in him you lose/gain nothing.
If you don't believe you lose/gain nothing.

Believe, it's the easy way :wink:

[HibsMax]

I am strongly opposed to assisted suicide. I don't think doctors should be asked to end the life of a patient, as it basically contradicts what the role of a doctor should be, i.e. to help people or, in the case of terminally ill people, to make them as comfortable as possible.

I don't support any kind of suicide, but when a person is capable of ending their own life, there's not a lot that anyone can do to stop them. It's a different story when you're asking other people to do the killing.

I should point out that I back the right of people to refuse treatment, even if the refusal means that their life will be cut short. I just don't support people being given lethal drugs that will kill them.

I just started reading this thread and my stop is coming up so I don't have time to see what else has been said on the matter. So I could be repeating what has already been said.

I didn't think assisted suicide was someone else "flicking the switch". I thought the whole idea was to make it possible for someone to end their own life themselves.

I personally believe that a person should have the right to end their own lives under certain, case-by-case circumstances. If I end up in a permanent vegetative state....pull the plug please. I haven't put that into writing yet. Like many people my age I don't have a will or anything prepared. But that's getting documented for sure. Not in my will though, by then it will be too late. ;)

[Sir David Gray]

Ah but if he did exist Falkirk I suspect he wasn't conceived naturally - thats not a good thing :wink:

You've got me there! :greengrin

[Petrie's Tache]

Betty,

Some Scripture for you to seriously reflect on:

<< (http://bible.cc/galatians/6-6.htm) Galatians 6:7 >> (http://bible.cc/galatians/6-8.htm)

http://bible.cc/parallel2.gifInternational Standard Version (http://isv.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©2008) (http://isv.org/)
Stop being deceived; God is not to be ridiculed. A person harvests whatever he plants:New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/galatians/6.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
Make no mistake about this: You can never make a fool out of God. Whatever you plant is what you'll harvest.



What if you believe god does not exist??????????? SERIOUSLY stop throwing idle threats around. They may have meaning to you AH, to me they are only words which go on to consolidate as to why I chose not to beLIEve.........

[Speedy]

I find it funny to see ©1995 after the Bible

[ancienthibby]

What if you believe god does not exist??????????? SERIOUSLY stop throwing idle threats around. They may have meaning to you AH, to me they are only words which go on to consolidate as to why I chose not to beLIEve.........

Betty,

I do not throw idle threats around, so apologies if you think I did. Since Christian believers are followers of the Word of God (the Bible) as authoritative, in many instances it is just better to let Scripture 'speak' for itself. And given that I am just a clumsy amateur scribbler, that's even more reason to stand aside and just point to Scripture!!

Best to you.
AH.

[New Corrie]

[/B]

If your argument is that animals and people equate, then you need much more help than anyone here can give!!

(And by the way, I don't preach!)

What is wrong with that argument? Not even sure it is an argument. It's an opinion and one which will be endorsed by many. A lot of people who have enjoyed many years of love and companionship from animals may even think better of them than people. Not the worst shout.

It's the air of pomp and superiority that goes with the God squad that riles us mere non believers.

[HibsMax]

What is wrong with that argument? Not even sure it is an argument. It's an opinion and one which will be endorsed by many. A lot of people who have enjoyed many years of love and companionship from animals may even think better of them than people. Not the worst shout.

It's the air of pomp and superiority that goes with the God squad that riles us mere non believers.

I agree, Corrie.

People are animals although some choose to ignore that fact. We may be more advanced than other species but that doesn't change the fact that we're still animals. If we compare a mouse and a dolphin we will see one very intelligent animal and one that is a little less so (sorry, Mickey). :) Does that give the dolphin more rights, higher powers than a simple mouse? If not, how can we, humans, say the same thing about us and every other species?

We have as much / little right to be on this planet as the other species we share it with. This is not our planet.

But veering wildly back on topic...

We don't have choice when it comes to being born and we don't appear to have a choice when it comes to die. Whose life are we really living?

[Hibrandenburg]

Betty,

I do not throw idle threats around, so apologies if you think I did. Since Christian believers are followers of the Word of God (the Bible) as authoritative, in many instances it is just better to let Scripture 'speak' for itself. And given that I am just a clumsy amateur scribbler, that's even more reason to stand aside and just point to Scripture!!

Best to you.
AH.

I respect everyone who argues his corner when it comes to his beliefs, but the god squads take it further by preaching to people who don't want to hear it. I much prefer the teachings of JK Rowling to the old testament.

Lets face it, there are so many gods and churches out there that the majority of us whether believer or non believer are gonna have egg on our faces come judgement day anyway.

I'm in no doubt that Jesus Christ existed, I doubt however that he was the son of god. His teachings are IMO still valid today and if applied by everyone this world would be a much better place. However I feel he used the god angle to reach as many people as possible, after all religion was the most effective media of his time.

[Sir David Gray]

I respect everyone who argues his corner when it comes to his beliefs, but the god squads take it further by preaching to people who don't want to hear it. I much prefer the teachings of JK Rowling to the old testament.

Lets face it, there are so many gods and churches out there that the majority of us whether believer or non believer are gonna have egg on our faces come judgement day anyway.

I'm in no doubt that Jesus Christ existed, I doubt however that he was the son of god. His teachings are IMO still valid today and if applied by everyone this world would be a much better place. However I feel he used the god angle to reach as many people as possible, after all religion was the most effective media of his time.

But surely that takes us back to the argument of freedom of speech.

I think it's important that Christians spread the teachings of Jesus and the Bible, but I do think it's also important that those teachings are not forced upon anyone that doesn't want to listen. But you won't know if someone wants to hear it, until you start telling them.

There are many people in the world who have never had the chance to even hear about Jesus, due to restrictions placed on Christianity in certain countries. There are also people in countries like the UK that have never had the opportunity to read the Bible, because of things like their upbringing.

I think such people should be given the opportunity to hear about Jesus. If they then choose to reject Him, then that's their right and their choice.

In terms of saying that there's so many Gods and Churches out there that the majority of us will end up with egg on our face, I agree; every person with a religious faith thinks theirs is the only way to Heaven.

Christians believe that you will only receive eternal life with God if you accept Jesus as your saviour and that the Bible holds all the answers. If you asked a Muslim the same question, they would say that the Qur'an holds all the answers.

Atheists don't believe in any eternal life, so they're a bit different.

[Hibrandenburg]

But surely that takes us back to the argument of freedom of speech.

I think it's important that Christians spread the teachings of Jesus and the Bible, but I do think it's also important that those teachings are not forced upon anyone that doesn't want to listen. But you won't know if someone wants to hear it, until you start telling them.

There are many people in the world who have never had the chance to even hear about Jesus, due to restrictions placed on Christianity in certain countries. There are also people in countries like the UK that have never had the opportunity to read the Bible, because of things like their upbringing.

I think such people should be given the opportunity to hear about Jesus. If they then choose to reject Him, then that's their right and their choice.

In terms of saying that there's so many Gods and Churches out there that the majority of us will end up with egg on our face, I agree; every person with a religious faith thinks theirs is the only way to Heaven.

Christians believe that you will only receive eternal life with God if you accept Jesus as your saviour and that the Bible holds all the answers. If you asked a Muslim the same question, they would say that the Qur'an holds all the answers.

Atheists don't believe in any eternal life, so they're a bit different.

That's my point FH. It is forced onto them. School is just one example.

[Sir David Gray]

That's my point FH. It is forced onto them. School is just one example.

I'm sure that in today's world, if a parent pushed it far enough, they would be able to withdraw their child from any religious class.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm sure that in today's world, if a parent pushed it far enough, they would be able to withdraw their child from any religious class.

Here in Germany, when you're born, you're born into one church or another. You may not realise it until you look at your tax records, then you'll notice that you've been paying "Church Tax". You can opt out but that can be a real pain in the arse process. Religious education is similar, you'd better have a good reason if you want to be excused.

[Sir David Gray]

Here in Germany, when you're born, you're born into one church or another. You may not realise it until you look at your tax records, then you'll notice that you've been paying "Church Tax". You can opt out but that can be a real pain in the arse process. Religious education is similar, you'd better have a good reason if you want to be excused.

"Church tax" is something that I would personally say should be paid on an "opt in" basis i.e. if you want to pay it, then you should say so, if not then that's fine.

In terms of religious education, I'm not really sure why you would be so against it, but if you do have strong feelings against it, I think you should have the right to withdraw your child from such classes.