Good to see some real justice for once ..

[IWasThere2016]

Good one! (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Shopkeeper-Stabs-Mugger-Liam-Kilroe-Died-During-Struggle-Over-Tony-Singhs-Cash---Inquest/Article/200811215148567?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Te aser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15148567_Shopkeeper_Stabs_Mugger%3A_Li am_Kilroe_Died_During_Struggle_Over_Tony_Singhs_Ca sh_-_Inquest)

[Hibby D]

I've got to disagree :no way:

What did Tony Singh use to stab the thief with and why did he have such a weapon?

Nope, we can't by-pass the justice system and take the law into our own hands. A life has been taken here and for what? £2000? :bitchy:

[GC]

I've got to disagree :no way:

What did Tony Singh use to stab the thief with and why did he have such a weapon?

Nope, we can't by-pass the justice system and take the law into our own hands. A life has been taken here and for what? £2000? :bitchy:

Yeah at the end of the day someone has died, yes they were in the wrong and to try and rob someone deserves a prison sentence but this person is dead now, surely that isn't justice:confused:

[Jack]

I'm going with TQM on this ....


A shopkeeper has said he is "relieved" to not face a murder charge after a man who tried to rob him was stabbed to death with his own knife.


Convicted armed robber Liam Kilroe, of Billinge, Merseyside, died in the incident in Skelmersdale.




Kilroe, who had previous convictions for assault and robbery, died from a single stab wound to the chest after smashing the window of the car Mr Singh was sitting in and trying to mug him.
He was wanted by police when the incident happened last month.

Sounds like a nasty piece of work. You go out tooled up you've got to expect to either hurt or get hurt.

http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?go=homepage&scope=all&tab=all&q=Liam+Kilroe&Search=Search

[Sir David Gray]

My opinion on this is that you give up any rights that you may previously have had, the moment you try to steal from someone, whether it be at their place of work or at their home.

It's unfortunate that the guy died but if he hadn't attempted the robbery in the first place then no-one would have got hurt.

If you do something wrong then you should expect to face the consequences for those actions and as far as i'm concerned, if you try to rob someone then they are entitled to fight back to keep their possessions and you should think about that before attempting a robbery or burglary.

If you read the BBC's version of events (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7720122.stm) it appears Liam Kilroe had previous convictions for burglary, assault and armed robbery and was actually on bail on the day of his death and was due in court the next day to answer two more charges of armed robbery.

It was also his knife that was used by the shopkeeper, he produced it when he broke into his car, presumably with the intention of using it to get a successful robbery. However the shopkeeper managed to get it from him and would naturally have seen it at the time as a "kill or be killed" situation.

There's no way I would charge the shopkeeper.

[creebo1875]

No sympathy at all for the robber. He went there with a knife with the intention of using it to intimidate and possibly injure or kill somebody to get what he wanted. The fact is the shop keeper never asked this man to try rob him, he was defending himself which is within his rights to do and many one of us would have done the same.

"you fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows"

[New Corrie]

Mr Singh should be given an award for this. More Mr Singhs and less vermin is what's required. Having been burgled three times and having seen the effects it had on my elderly parents when they had their house ransacked, it gives me great pleasure when I hear of the demise of one of these ****bags. Probably the only thing about the US that I admire is your ability to protect your house and family by shooting these dregs.

[Austinho]

I've got to disagree :no way:

What did Tony Singh use to stab the thief with and why did he have such a weapon?

Nope, we can't by-pass the justice system and take the law into our own hands. A life has been taken here and for what? £2000? :bitchy:Do you feel any different, knowing the victim stabbed the mugger with the knife he was threatened with?

Personally, I'm pleased there is one less dangerous knife carrying sc*mbag on the planet to worry about. And I'd wish the same on every one of them, whether they were after £2,000 or the spare change in my pocket.

The only sympathy I feel is for Tony Singh - if it wasn't bad enough being mugged at knife point, he had to go through the trauma of facing a court case and possible murder charge.

[bobbyhibs1983]

My opinion on this is that you give up any rights that you may previously have had, the moment you try to steal from someone, whether it be at their place of work or at their home.

It's unfortunate that the guy died but if he hadn't attempted the robbery in the first place then no-one would have got hurt.

If you do something wrong then you should expect to face the consequences for those actions and as far as i'm concerned, if you try to rob someone then they are entitled to fight back to keep their possessions and you should think about that before attempting a robbery or burglary.

If you read the BBC's version of events (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7720122.stm) it appears Liam Kilroe had previous convictions for burglary, assault and armed robbery and was actually on bail on the day of his death and was due in court the next day to answer two more charges of armed robbery.

It was also his knife that was used by the shopkeeper, he produced it when he broke into his car, presumably with the intention of using it to get a successful robbery. However the shopkeeper managed to get it from him and would naturally have seen it at the time as a "kill or be killed" situation.

There's no way I would charge the shopkeeper.




Agree 100% with you.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You can't go stabbing people, much as you'd like to. In terms of justice though, seems a fair cop to me - as another poster said "you fly with the crows you get shot with the crows".

[gringojoe]

Should give Mr Singh a medal as he's just saved the tax payer a fortune as the career criminal he killed in self defence would have cost the honest law abiding citizens a fortune to keep locked up. No tears from me about a ****bag getting killed.

[Wilson]

Someone's son is dead. Perhaps he was beyond rehabillitation perhaps not.

Singh should probably have been sent down for his part, with the fact he was defending himself used in mitigation ensuring some leniency.

I can accept the idea of reasonable force being used in self defence. A stabbing death goes slightly beyond that where I am concerned.

[sleeping giant]

Mr Singh should be given an award for this. More Mr Singhs and less vermin is what's required. Having been burgled three times and having seen the effects it had on my elderly parents when they had their house ransacked, it gives me great pleasure when I hear of the demise of one of these ****bags. Probably the only thing about the US that I admire is your ability to protect your house and family by shooting these dregs.

Indeed:agree:

[PC Stamp]

You cannae beat a good defence lawyer eh! A dispute over drugs money!!! And the boy's mammy of course could never see her lad do wrong. She was supporting him financially to help him evade Police. How very public spirited of her! They should lock her up as well for harbouring a wanted criminal (her son or not) if that statement is correct.

Unfortunate the guy died however if you live by the sword you die by the sword.

[Hibs Class]

Someone's son is dead. Perhaps he was beyond rehabillitation perhaps not.

Singh should probably have been sent down for his part, with the fact he was defending himself used in mitigation ensuring some leniency.

I can accept the idea of reasonable force being used in self defence. A stabbing death goes slightly beyond that where I am concerned.

Why criminalise someone for a sequence of events he neither chose nor could control? It sounds as though "some leniency" was shown through the Police recommendation / CPS decision to not prosecute

[Wilson]

Why criminalise someone for a sequence of events he neither chose nor could control? It sounds as though "some leniency" was shown through the Police recommendation / CPS decision to not prosecute

Some leniency or too much? Too much as I see it.

He might not have chosen to have taken part in events but at some point in proceedings there was a conscious decision to end a mans life using a knife he had attained.

You criminalise people that commit crime. Murder is a crime - even in self defence.

The CPS got this one wrong.

[Hibby D]

Do you feel any different, knowing the victim stabbed the mugger with the knife he was threatened with?



No, not really. I don't care if the robber had a history of being a thieving wee sheite and a police record as long as my left arm, he did not deserve to die :no way

However.......tell me he had a criminal conviction for abusing or killing children and I might change my mind :agree:

[gringojoe]

[QUOTE=TickTock;1827567]Someone's son is dead. Perhaps he was beyond rehabillitation perhaps not.

Tough. Maybe if his parents had brought him up properly so that he didn't become an armed robber he would still be alive, at least his crime spree is over now.

[Hibs Class]

Some leniency or too much? Too much as I see it.

He might not have chosen to have taken part in events but at some point in proceedings there was a conscious decision to end a mans life using a knife he had attained.

You criminalise people that commit crime. Murder is a crime - even in self defence.

The CPS got this one wrong.

I'm no expert, but obviously neither are you. Murder requires premeditation, and killing an armed robber who tries to rob you surely cannot be premeditated. I don't see where the conscious decision came in either - could there simply have been a struggle in which a man sadly died? I suspect the Police and CPS had more evidence on which to base their judgements than hibs.netters do!

[Wilson]

I'm no expert, but obviously neither are you. Murder requires premeditation, and killing an armed robber who tries to rob you surely cannot be premeditated. I don't see where the conscious decision came in either - could there simply have been a struggle in which a man sadly died? I suspect the Police and CPS had more evidence on which to base their judgements than hibs.netters do!

You are correct in that I have no legal background. I am aware though that if you kill, even in self defence, you can expect to be punished for it. A man didn't sadly die in a struggle. He was stabbed. Stabbed by a man defending himself yes but stabbed all the same. That is a beyond reasonable reaction from Mr. Singh even given the circumstances.

He could have handed over his money, gave the police a description, claimed on his insurance, and let the legal process take it's course. The courts would have dealt with the perpetrator. That is the correct way to do things. No blood on his hands. No life lost. Justice meted out in the way it is supposed to be in a civilised society.

[New Corrie]

You are correct in that I have no legal background. I am aware though that if you kill, even in self defence, you can expect to be punished for it. A man didn't sadly die in a struggle. He was stabbed. Stabbed by a man defending himself yes but stabbed all the same. That is a beyond reasonable reaction from Mr. Singh even given the circumstances.

He could have handed over his money, gave the police a description, claimed on his insurance, and let the legal process take it's course. The courts would have dealt with the perpetrator. That is the correct way to do things. No blood on his hands. No life lost. Justice meted out in the way it is supposed to be in a civilised society.


I am sure Mr Singh had time to think about that right enough. Why should Mr Singh hand his hard earned, legally obtained money over to a violent career criminal? Believe me, the world is a better place with Mr Singh in it, and vermin junk out of it.

[RmR]

If the Police thought for one minute that Mr.Singh had used "unreasonable force" then they would have recommended prosecution. A single stab wound, inflicted with the criminals own knife, after being a punched headbutted and bitten does not seem unreasonable to me. The criminal died so will not be adding to the tax payers burden, no loss. Some ones son, tough. Mr. Singh is someone's son to, and they seem have done a much better job in raising him.

One up for the good guys.

[--------]

You are correct in that I have no legal background. I am aware though that if you kill, even in self defence, you can expect to be punished for it. A man didn't sadly die in a struggle. He was stabbed. Stabbed by a man defending himself yes but stabbed all the same. That is a beyond reasonable reaction from Mr. Singh even given the circumstances.

He could have handed over his money, gave the police a description, claimed on his insurance, and let the legal process take it's course. The courts would have dealt with the perpetrator. That is the correct way to do things. No blood on his hands. No life lost. Justice meted out in the way it is supposed to be in a civilised society.


Some leniency or too much? Too much as I see it.

He might not have chosen to have taken part in events but at some point in proceedings there was a conscious decision to end a mans life using a knife he had attained.

You criminalise people that commit crime. Murder is a crime - even in self defence.

The CPS got this one wrong.



It's very easy, I think, to make the right decisions when you're sitting at your keyboard with a nice cup of coffee beside you, warm room, music playing, safe and secure with the door locked?

Not so easy when someone walks up to your car, smashes the window in your face, shoves a knife at you and demands your hard-earned cash.

I doubt if Tony Singh was fully aware of what he was doing - adrenalin takes over, after all.

He was ambushed, head-butted, punched repeatedly, threatened with a knife, threatened with death, and bitten (he'll need to be tested for HIV, remember).

But Kilroe was so obviously the sort of reasonable chap who'd just take the money and go, after all?

No possibility that he might have stabbed Tony Singh just for badness sake after TS had handed him the cash? Kilroe had some serious history behind him.

The police arrested Tony Singh. They questioned him. They sought out and took statements from witnesses, and there was a coroner's inquest in which the dead man and his family were represented.

Maybe he is a wrong 'un and the drugs allegations were true (funny the police dismissed those allegations, though). But there has been due process of law and neither the police nor the coroner nor the Crown Prosecution Service consider that the case against him should go any farther. End of.

Violent bullies with knives never think that their own weapon might be turned on them, or even that their victims might just once in a while fight back.

It's sad that a life has been lost, but if you live by the sword (or the knife or the gun) you're very liable to die by the same.

And I believe that self-defence IS a valid defence in cases of homicide. In both Scotland AND England. :cool2:

[Hibrandenburg]

Mr Singh didn't play fair!

Well boo hoo hoo

[lyonhibs]

Is anyone seriously saying that this fairly obvious case of self defence should have resulted in Mr Singh getting banged up??
Does anyone seriously thing that some absolute - previously convicted - ****bag, tooled up with a knife was liable to walk away with cash in hand and wish the bruised and bleeding Mr Singh "Good Day to you Sir, and sorry for the mild inconvenience"??

That's 1 down, about (insert unacceptably large number here) to go IMO.

Interesting that the robbing filth was as white and as British as I am, yet the hard-working, service providing shopowner is obviously either a immigrant himself or of Immigrant stock.

Did this story make it into the Daily Mail???? :dunno:

[Austinho]

Is anyone seriously saying that this fairly obvious case of self defence should have resulted in Mr Singh getting banged up??
Does anyone seriously thing that some absolute - previously convicted - ****bag, tooled up with a knife was liable to walk away with cash in hand and wish the bruised and bleeding Mr Singh "Good Day to you Sir, and sorry for the mild inconvenience"??

That's 1 down, about (insert unacceptably large number here) to go IMO.

Interesting that the robbing filth was as white and as British as I am, yet the hard-working, service providing shopowner is obviously either a immigrant himself or of Immigrant stock.

Did this story make it into the Daily Mail???? :dunno:Yes. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084524/Shopkeeper-stabbed-armed-robber-death-knife-self-defence.html)

[Purple & Green]

Poor Tony Singh. I hope he recovers from the trauma of this incident.

[HibsMax]

I've got to disagree :no way:

What did Tony Singh use to stab the thief with and why did he have such a weapon?

Nope, we can't by-pass the justice system and take the law into our own hands. A life has been taken here and for what? £2000? :bitchy:
Opinion, ay? ;)

What if the mugger ended up killing Mr. Singh? I don't agree with vigilantes (which is what bypassing the law really is) but when it comes to self defence, strike first and ask questions later. If you pause to think about it, you may end up losing your own life. Over 2000 quid.

In my own opinion, if you're the type of person that is stupid enough to threaten another person with violence then you have to be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. What is the victim supposed to do? Ask, "Excuse me, before we go any further do you intend to simply rob me, harm me or kill me?" and then base their own actions on the answer. Nope, sorry, you come swinging then suffer the consequences.

Do you want to gamble with your own life?

[HibsMax]

Some leniency or too much? Too much as I see it.

He might not have chosen to have taken part in events but at some point in proceedings there was a conscious decision to end a mans life using a knife he had attained.

You criminalise people that commit crime. Murder is a crime - even in self defence.

The CPS got this one wrong.
Sorry but this is way over the line. The man was attacked and acted the way he did to save his life. I very much doubt that the decision he made was as clearcut or conscious as your post implies. I doubt he made any decision, rather he acted on instinct. The instinct to survive. He did not murder someone, he protected his own life using the very weapon that could have potentially ended his own.

[HibsMax]

No, not really. I don't care if the robber had a history of being a thieving wee sheite and a police record as long as my left arm, he did not deserve to die :no way

However.......tell me he had a criminal conviction for abusing or killing children and I might change my mind :agree:
So should Mr Singh just have allowed himself to have been killed? Would that have been the right thing to do?

[HibsMax]

You are correct in that I have no legal background. I am aware though that if you kill, even in self defence, you can expect to be punished for it. A man didn't sadly die in a struggle. He was stabbed. Stabbed by a man defending himself yes but stabbed all the same. That is a beyond reasonable reaction from Mr. Singh even given the circumstances.

He could have handed over his money, gave the police a description, claimed on his insurance, and let the legal process take it's course. The courts would have dealt with the perpetrator. That is the correct way to do things. No blood on his hands. No life lost. Justice meted out in the way it is supposed to be in a civilised society.
or Mr Singh may have ended up dead himself.

How can you say what a reasonable reaction is until you yourself have been in the same situation? Everyone reacts differently.

-----

I am quite surprised that there are people defending the robber. He instigated the crime. He brought the weapon. He died. Tough *****.

[MyJo]

If I were in the same situation I would react in the same way and I certainly wouldn't have any remorse for a s**mbag who threatens me or my family.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

You don't know what you'd do in that situation until it happens, instinct would take over.

But I don't think anybody who is threatened with violence in such a manner should be accountable for their actions. Mr Singh didn't instigate the situation, the other guy did. Fair play to the guy for standing up for himself. :agree:

[AndyM_1875]

I've got to disagree :no way:

What did Tony Singh use to stab the thief with and why did he have such a weapon?

He struggled with the attacker and the attacker's knife was turned on him.
The attacker wasn't out collecting for the Salvation Army. He was a violent career criminal who brought armed violence to Mt Singh's shop and tried to rob him. Unfortunately for him Mr Singh was not going to take it and fought back to defend himself and his livelihood.



Nope, we can't by-pass the justice system and take the law into our own hands. A life has been taken here and for what? £2000? :bitchy:

We havent bypassed the justice system. The Police recommended no prosecution and the CPS reviewed it and came to the same conclusion.
A life was taken sure, but it was the attacker's own fault, not Mr Singh.

Case closed.