Auschwitz

[davym7062]

anybody been there?

went on tuesday OH MY GOD.

i have read books and seen tv programmes but i could not believe the scale of this place. it is massive and the brutality that went on is something i could never have imagined.

[CropleyWasGod]

I was there during the summer.

This may sound stupid, but I think you went at a better time of year. When I went, it was warm and sunny, blue skies, and the birds were singing. (it really is a myth that there are no birds there). It was very difficult to equate all of that with what actually happened and, at times, it felt like I was in a Disneyland mock-up.

In some ways, I wish I had been there in the depths of winter. For most of us, the war only happened in black and white, and the newsreels add to the horror of it all.

That said, now that I am back, when I look at my photos, I get more disturbed. It is something I will never forget. I am not sure I feel blessed to have been.... humbled is probably a better word.

[davym7062]

not a bird in the sky on tuesday

[Phil D. Rolls]

I can't bring myself to go, yet I feel I have to. I have visited Amsterdam many times, and can always feel the ghosts of those who didn't return. I will go to Auschwitz one day, as I have to complete the circle and try to make sense of the whole thing.

[davym7062]

I can't bring myself to go, yet I feel I have to. I have visited Amsterdam many times, and can always feel the ghosts of those who didn't return. I will go to Auschwitz one day, as I have to complete the circle and try to make sense of the whole thing.

i dont think thats possible FR.

YOU DO HAVE TO GO THO:agree:

[CropleyWasGod]

I can't bring myself to go, yet I feel I have to. I have visited Amsterdam many times, and can always feel the ghosts of those who didn't return. I will go to Auschwitz one day, as I have to complete the circle and try to make sense of the whole thing.

... probably not possible.

One of the memories that my 16 year old son has of his visit is of a couple of guys.... one of my generation, one his..... walking around draped in Israeli flags. It just felt like a GIRUY provocation, and that wasn't just my cynical jaundiced eye, the boy felt it too.

What I am saying is that nothing is black and white, even something as horrendous as the Holocaust. Making sense of it is probably not an option. Being there and feeling the pain, though, is.

This is Judith Chalmers, for Holiday '79....

[Hibbyradge]

I was there in the 60's and early 70's.

I went to Dachau and Belsen too.

It was terrible. So close after they had been in use.

edit: I assure you, there were no birds and nothing was growing then.

[Hibs Class]

anybody been there?

went on tuesday OH MY GOD.

i have read books and seen tv programmes but i could not believe the scale of this place. it is massive and the brutality that went on is something i could never have imagined.

I went in August. The hugeness of Birkenau (which I visited first) really took me by surprise, and I was then surprised at how relatively small Auschwitz 1 was. There were many moving areas, such as the death wall, the basement cells and the end of the train line, but the biggest one for me was standing at the top of the steps of one of the Birkenau gas chambers and imagining the many thousands of victims who stood at that very spot, taking their last look at the sky before being herded into the underground chambers. Very upsetting, but the realisation of a desire I had had for about 30 years to visit.

[hibby rae]

I've never been though I do think it's something everybody visit . I visited Dachau last week , I found it difficult to comprehend what happened where I was standing it ,reminded me of visiting the Somme in that respect unless you were there at the time then you can't fully know what it was like , which is maybe something to be thankful for you could very easily crack up without that detachment.

[MSK]

anybody been there?

went on tuesday OH MY GOD.

i have read books and seen tv programmes but i could not believe the scale of this place. it is massive and the brutality that went on is something i could never have imagined.Superb thread Davy...(i dont mean that in a sick way)..im facinated with these death camps etc & read the books...can you tell me your travel arrangements etc ...i work with Polish Nurses but their travel info is "grainy" ....not very clear ...:dunno:

[Sylar]

Never been, but id definately welcome the opportunity - "welcome" is maybe not the right word, but you get my meaning.

When I was in 2nd year at high school, I visited the battlefields of Belgium and Northern France, visiting many poignant places, such as Ypres, Thiepval, Messine Ridge, Langemark, Dunkirk, The Somme valley and many others! Perhaps the most moving, was the memorial battlefield to the Canadian soldiers - alas, it was so long ago, that the name has evaded me - Vimy ridge is in my mind somewhere? Also, seeing some of the tomb stones to the very young soldiers was a bit difficult to handle - some of them not even 16.

It was truly harrowing to see so many names - Thiepval is the monument to those who were missing, presumed dead - there are over 72,000 names on the memorial of those with no known grave - truly gut wrenching stuff.

I went looking for the name of a relative of ours we knew had died in the 2nd battle of Ypres, and sure enough, the name was inscribed on the Menin Gate - he was my late grandmother's brother, and although she never knew his name was there, I felt some form of closure myself, despite having never met him. It was a truly awe inspiring trip. To close matters on our final night in Ypres, we held a vigil in memory and honour of those who had died in battle - in front of 250 people, I recited the Laurence Binyon passage, before lighting a candle in tribute to my great uncle.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

I'm aware this is in relation to WW1, and slightly removed from Auschwitz, but nonetheless - I thought id share!

[Eddie]

Cool, really want to visit those places :agree:

[davym7062]

Superb thread Davy...(i dont mean that in a sick way)..im facinated with these death camps etc & read the books...can you tell me your travel arrangements etc ...i work with Polish Nurses but their travel info is "grainy" ....not very clear ...:dunno:

go to the tourist info in krakow and book it. times were 8am and 2 pm tho this may change as its getting darker. takes about 1 hour on the bus and your there for about 3and a half hours. cost 90zln bout 20 quid.

[Hibs Class]

Superb thread Davy...(i dont mean that in a sick way)..im facinated with these death camps etc & read the books...can you tell me your travel arrangements etc ...i work with Polish Nurses but their travel info is "grainy" ....not very clear ...:dunno:

Best option is to use Krakow as a base. Easyjet fly direct from Edinburgh and I think Ryannair were also due to start up flights about now. We looked at a tour from Krakow, booked as Davy says, but felt that we would have less time on-site than if we got their by public transport. There are regular trains from Krakow to Oswiecm (not sure about spelling) which are cheap and take about 90 mins, but allowed us to spend about 6 hours there. Train station is about a 15-20 min walk from the camps, but there were also plenty of taxis about.

[Hibrandenburg]

Was there with a group of German mates a few years back and simply by looking at their reaction made me realise that they are also victims. The horrors that took place there and the responsibility for them have also been passed on to those who came afterwards.

These type of memorials are absolutely indispensable to try and ensure that evil on that scale never darkens our lives again. However looking forward these memorials are also antecedent in keeping open wounds open and may for generations to come be the source of antagonism.

[CropleyWasGod]

Was there with a group of German mates a few years back and simply by looking at their reaction made me realise that they are also victims. The horrors that took place there and the responsibility for them have also been passed on to those who came afterwards.

These type of memorials are absolutely indispensable to try and ensure that evil on that scale never darkens our lives again. However looking forward these memorials are also antecedent in keeping open wounds open and may for generations to come be the source of antagonism.

That's the discussion I had with my son, after seeing the guys draped in the Israeli flags. There is hostility, sure, but perhaps an open wound is preferable to a closed one, with the disease bubbling beneath.

Another point.... entry to the camps is free, yet they are wonderfully maintai ned. it's a sad commentary that such places can do this, yet we have to pay £6 to see Tracey Emin's unmade bed.

[MSK]

go to the tourist info in krakow and book it. times were 8am and 2 pm tho this may change as its getting darker. takes about 1 hour on the bus and your there for about 3and a half hours. cost 90zln bout 20 quid.


Best option is to use Krakow as a base. Easyjet fly direct from Edinburgh and I think Ryannair were also due to start up flights about now. We looked at a tour from Krakow, booked as Davy says, but felt that we would have less time on-site than if we got their by public transport. There are regular trains from Krakow to Oswiecm (not sure about spelling) which are cheap and take about 90 mins, but allowed us to spend about 6 hours there. Train station is about a 15-20 min walk from the camps, but there were also plenty of taxis about.Thanks guys ...:aok:

[bandylegs_jLeighton]

Thanks guys ...:aok:

I went via public bus from Krakow during the Summer which was both cheap and pretty straightforward. However, the later return buses were extremely busy, I had to share the area above the toilet box with a couple others whilst people where standing/sitting on the floor from back to front. Then again I was backpacking taking all the cheapest alternatives!

Whilst in Krakow, a trip to the salt mines is definately worthwhile, you can also get there by public bus no bother plus a 5 minute stroll.

[wpj]

Went to Bergen - Belson in the 90s with a German friend, very moving and the experience has stayed with me

[BEEJ]

I went in August. The hugeness of Birkenau (which I visited first) really took me by surprise, and I was then surprised at how relatively small Auschwitz 1 was. There were many moving areas, such as the death wall, the basement cells and the end of the train line, but the biggest one for me was standing at the top of the steps of one of the Birkenau gas chambers and imagining the many thousands of victims who stood at that very spot, taking their last look at the sky before being herded into the underground chambers. Very upsetting, but the realisation of a desire I had had for about 30 years to visit.
All of which makes it astounding that there are prominent 'holocaust-deniers' who go around peddling the theory that it was all a myth and never really happened. :bitchy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

... probably not possible.

One of the memories that my 16 year old son has of his visit is of a couple of guys.... one of my generation, one his..... walking around draped in Israeli flags. It just felt like a GIRUY provocation, and that wasn't just my cynical jaundiced eye, the boy felt it too.

What I am saying is that nothing is black and white, even something as horrendous as the Holocaust. Making sense of it is probably not an option. Being there and feeling the pain, though, is.

This is Judith Chalmers, for Holiday '79....

Judith, try visiting the Anne Frank house in Amsterdam. They have an interactive display at the end which challenges assumptions about tolerance in a fair and balanced way.

One of the questions they asked was whether Muslims living in Amsterdam should have the right to compare the Israelis to the nazis. The local jewish community were very offended by it.

[Eurohibees]

is it true that no birds fly over there ever due to the stench of death?

[CropleyWasGod]

is it true that no birds fly over there ever due to the stench of death?

No.

I, too, had heard that. However, in the middle of summer, there were certainly a lot of birds in the trees at the edge of the smaller camp.

[ArabHibee]

That's the discussion I had with my son, after seeing the guys draped in the Israeli flags. There is hostility, sure, but perhaps an open wound is preferable to a closed one, with the disease bubbling beneath.

Another point.... entry to the camps is free, yet they are wonderfully maintai ned. it's a sad commentary that such places can do this, yet we have to pay £6 to see Tracey Emin's unmade bed.

I went in March, was a not bad day, not too cold but grey and ended up starting to rain just as we finished up at Birkenau. I am so glad that I persuaded the other half to drive there when we were staying in Krakow. It really is something to see and you really can't understand how vast the camp is at Birkenau until you see it for yourself, tv pictures do not do it justice. Just standing in the camp at Auchswitz 1 and thinking about what happened to the people there was very humbling, thinking these same people had walked the same ground as you some 60 odd years ago.

As above, entry to the camps is free but you have to pay for a guided tour which is definitely worth it, don't think I would have learned so much if I had just gone round on my own. The guide was very good and happy to answer any questions you had.

I also noticed people draped in Israeli flags when we got to Birkenau and found it very disconcerting, but as I'm not very religious I don't know how I would feel if it had happened to 'my people".

[davym7062]

is it true that no birds fly over there ever due to the stench of death?

there were no birds in the sky but no stench of death either

[Phil D. Rolls]

there were no birds in the sky but no stench of death either

Not trying to be funny, but I don't know much about ornothology. Maybe the birds don't go there because there are no trees?

[davym7062]

Not trying to be funny, but I don't know much about ornothology. Maybe the birds don't go there because there are no trees?

thats what i thought when we first arrived but there are trees at the back

[CropleyWasGod]

thats what i thought when we first arrived but there are trees at the back

... which is where we heard the birds.

[Phil D. Rolls]

... which is where we heard the birds.

:hmmm:

If a bird sings when there is nobody there does it sit on a tree?

[Higgy115]

I went in January this year, one of the most surreal experiences ever. A local taxi driver took us from Krakow and his knowledge was incredible. We only really went to try and stay off the drink for an afternoon. Almost as soon as we got into the main yard it started snowing and the temp dropped dramatically, wandering about with loads of people not saying a word to each other was really strange.

I was not prepared as to the scale of the whole place and my knowledge of what went on before i got there was sketchy at best, it is a real eye opener and although it is not a place that you would come out saying it was enjoyable, it is certainly worthwhile.

[Pretty Boy]

I went in March, was a not bad day, not too cold but grey and ended up starting to rain just as we finished up at Birkenau. I am so glad that I persuaded the other half to drive there when we were staying in Krakow. It really is something to see and you really can't understand how vast the camp is at Birkenau until you see it for yourself, tv pictures do not do it justice. Just standing in the camp at Auchswitz 1 and thinking about what happened to the people there was very humbling, thinking these same people had walked the same ground as you some 60 odd years ago.

As above, entry to the camps is free but you have to pay for a guided tour which is definitely worth it, don't think I would have learned so much if I had just gone round on my own. The guide was very good and happy to answer any questions you had.

I also noticed people draped in Israeli flags when we got to Birkenau and found it very disconcerting, but as I'm not very religious I don't know how I would feel if it had happened to 'my people".


I can remeber getting into a very heated debate after visiting with a friend about how the people wearing the Israeli flags in Auschwitz were probably the biggest supporters of the Israeli oppression of Palestinians. Inevitably though if such a thing had happened to 'my people' i reluctantly accepted i could see their reasons for wearing the flag.

On a broader note, the Auschwitz tour is both harrowing and fascinating and should be an oppurtunity offered to schoolchildren around the world. Also any idiots who spouts nonsense for the BNP should be forced to visit to see what they are only a couple of steps away from. A truly horrible yet amazingly interesting place.

[Andy74]

I went while in Krakow last year. I don't normally get emotional over things that really don't effect me directly but it was a particularly emotional and draining experience. It certainly made real for me things I had only read about. To think there are people out there who would still be capable of making these things happen again is disconcerting.

[H18BYM]

I was thinking of heading out to Krakow in the next month or so. Apart from the Auschwitz visit, what else is there to do and where's the best areas/worst areas to stay?

Cheers :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

I was thinking of heading out to Krakow in the next month or so. Apart from the Auschwitz visit, what else is there to do and where's the best areas/worst areas to stay?

Cheers :thumbsup:

The old town is gorgeous, although at this time of year, take a jumper or two!! There is also the Salt Mines, a day trip away; pricey, but worth the visit.

As far as staying, I had a self-catered flat last summer which was good value, and only a tram ride from the centre. However, at this time of year, I think you will be able to get a good deal nearer the old town.

[The_Todd]

Never been to Auswitz, but went to a concentration camp just outside Berlin.

Harrowing.

The only thing the ruined the mood was a fat American having a hissy fit that there wasn't a movie showing when there should have been.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The old town is gorgeous, although at this time of year, take a jumper or two!! There is also the Salt Mines, a day trip away; pricey, but worth the visit.

As far as staying, I had a self-catered flat last summer which was good value, and only a tram ride from the centre. However, at this time of year, I think you will be able to get a good deal nearer the old town.

I've heard you can get some authentic 40s banter and food at Bar Boerman, just a stone's throw from the entrance. If the little one's are playing up the Ann Frank experience will certainly make them behave. Finally don't miss Eva Braun's candlelit review (host K. Mengele), it'll take your breath away.

Surely that's enough to keep any family happy after a day's site seeing?

Oh, in Warsaw? Doh!

[CropleyWasGod]

I've heard you can get some authentic 40s banter and food at Bar Boerman, just a stone's throw from the entrance. If the little one's are playing up the Ann Frank experience will certainly make them behave. Finally don't miss Eva Braun's candlelit review (host K. Mengele), it'll take your breath away.

Surely that's enough to keep any family happy after a day's site seeing?

Oh, in Warsaw? Doh!

I am tempted to say it's a gas, but I shan't.

[ArabHibee]

I was thinking of heading out to Krakow in the next month or so. Apart from the Auschwitz visit, what else is there to do and where's the best areas/worst areas to stay?

Cheers :thumbsup:

We stayed here


http://www.novotel.com/frm_fiche_hotel.svlt?code_hotel=3372&liste=1

Really central and quite reasonable for a 4 star hotel. About 10 mins walk from the old city.

[andrew_dundee]

when i went i visited twice

first time was as part of a tour group from the hostel i was staying in, we were there for around 90 mins and had a tour guide but that somehow felt wrong.

i went two days later by myself by bus and the impact was even greater. i wont comment on how it felt being there as i think other posters have articulated that better than i ever could.

however 2 things stuck with me, both f which made me feel strangely optimistic.

the fact is that what was once a death camp is now one of the most visited sites in Europe and that's fundamentally a good thing, as long as the holocaust is seen as a peice of history and something to be horrified by then i think it makes it all the more likely that Europe will never see anything like it on that scale ever again, as long as people visit it and are shockd by it then it will always be seen as repulsive.

the other thing which actually made me oddly optimisitc was something i noiced in Birkenau. Birkenau was a horrific site and seeing even the graffeti etc in some of the structures made it feel that bit more real. Anyway i followed the long train path, past the monument and behind the trees and i saw a young girl in a sandpit in a back garden behind the camp, at first this was quite a disturbing site but it also left me feeling strangely strangely optimistic for a reason i dont think i could explain. it felt like a profound statement to see a young girl innocently playing in a sandbox seemingly oblivious to her surroundings and not displaying any of the hatred which lead to the place being constructed, it was almost beautiful in a way i dont think i could articulate properly

[Phil D. Rolls]

I am tempted to say it's a gas, but I shan't.

Anything Ronnie Biggs can say is cool for me.

[Hibrandenburg]

Anything Ronnie Biggs can say is cool for me.

Especially at the moment :agree: