The Kingston Chants

[LiverpoolHibs]

From the East...

What were they, couldn't make them out?

Apologies if it's been asked before but couldn't see it.

[GC]

From the East...

What were they, couldn't make them out?

Apologies if it's been asked before but couldn't see it.

Was there one? I sit in the East and never heart it, however by that point I had enjoyed many a beveridge and was not completely fully aware of my surroundings:greengrin

[ap_mccoy]

Larry Kingston is a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man.

[hibee_girl]

I was in the East and never heard any Kingston chants :dunno:

Mind you I am in my own wee world most of the time :greengrin

[Storar]

I was in the East and never heard any Kingston chants :dunno:

Mind you I am in my own wee world most of the time :greengrin

Loud and clear from where I was!

[Willis1875]

Was there one? I sit in the East and never heart it, however by that point I had enjoyed many a beveridge and was not completely fully aware of my surroundings:greengrin

same here mate,sit in line with half way line and never heard a thing.:confused:

[bobbyhibs1983]

Larry Kingston is a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man.


Beat me to it good man.Thought the song was a lil funny but on the other hand would it be deemed!"racist?":confused:

[hibee_girl]

Loud and clear from where I was!

I'm in the middle of the east, right on half way line and heard nothing

[Wembley67]

Beat me to it good man.Thought the song was a lil funny but on the other hand would it be deemed!"racist?":confused:

Probably would be deemed racist but from a non racist person it is pretty funny :agree:

[Storar]

I'm in the middle of the east, right on half way line and heard nothing

I was in the last block closest to the the away end, maybe it was just our wee block singing it but it seemed alot louder.

[ChooseLife]

I was in the east to the left of the gauntry at the back and eveyone was singing "Larry Kingston sells watches on beach! watches on the beach!"

Dunno if that's seen as racist but I thought it was funny:greengrin

[Nameless]

Probably would be deemed racist but from a non racist person it is pretty funny :agree:

Are you suggesting that if a racist says somthing racist it's wrong, but if a non racist says somthing racist its fine:confused:

That's too much racist for one post:faint:

[LiverpoolHibs]

'Looky, looky man'?! Am I being spectacularly stupid in not getting it?

[bobbyhibs1983]

'Looky, looky man'?! Am I being spectacularly stupid in not getting it?


When i was on holiday in tenerife a few years ago , at night there were big coloured guys who went around selling watches and the sort and i think the songs was comparing kingston to one of these ppl

[Storar]

'Looky, looky man'?! Am I being spectacularly stupid in not getting it?

From Urban Dictionary..


Looky Looky Men 16 thumbs up love ithate it

Men of African Origin who sell cheap and not-so-cheerful items on the streets. Can be found in Tenerife almost anywhere.
The female variant will braid your hair, which is why you can see hundreds of girls with the same hair in Tenerife.
Name derives from "Looky Looky!", as in: "Kind customer, please peruse my wares".


Looky Looky Men: "Hey! You! English! You want to buy nice watch!"
My Good Self: "Sorry, I have no money"
"Yes you have money! You in Tenerife!"
"No really, I don't." *slaps pockets and coins jingle*
"YOU HAVE MONEY! Come on my friend, I do special price, just for you! Show me how much money you have!"
"All I have is... *picks out smallest amount of coins possible* this."
"Let me see! Ah, 4 Euro 30. These Glasses Ten Euro! Special Price! Which ones you like?" *Puts my money in his pocket*
"Uh.. those ones."
"You look, you look! Nice Glasses, yes?"
"Yes, but do I have enough money..."
*While I'm looking at the reeeeeally cheap sunglasses he accosts another tourist to sell them some ****. I thought he'd let me have the glasses so we walked off... I got round the corner and heard:*
"Hey! You! Pwah! You owe me money! You give me 4 Euro 30! You!"


Go on....you know you want to:wink:

[ap_mccoy]

From Urban Dictionary..




Go on....you know you want to:wink:



couldn't put it any better!! :thumbsup:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Well, I can only say I'm glad I didn't join in with it even in the heat of the moment.

On a level with the Skacel song. ****ing embarrassing.

[Wembley67]

Beat me to it good man.Thought the song was a lil funny but on the other hand would it be deemed!"racist?":confused:


Well, I can only say I'm glad I didn't join in with it even in the heat of the moment.

On a level with the Skacel song. ****ing embarrassing.

It's cool you never joined in anyway as you say.

[Steve-O]

I would say this is more of a stereotype than out and out racism.

[LiverpoolHibs]

It's cool you never joined in anyway as you say.

I'm still collectively embarrassed for a group I identify myself with.

Awful patter.

[SRHibs]

Don't think many of the chants that I was hearing round me will be thought of too highly on here.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I'm still collectively embarrassed for a group I identify myself with.

Awful patter.

I didn't sing the song. However I think it was intended to be a laugh, as opposed to being racist.

A bit like the Stevie Fulton "So ****en ugly" and "booked for being ugly" songs a few years ago. Also like the "We hate Jimmy Hill, he's a poof" song that the Tartan Army sing.

I think there is a danger in reading too much into some songs to be honest.

Throwing bananas and making monkey noises (like the Hearts fans did to Mark Walters a few years back) is a different kettle of fish.....apologies if you think that comment was a slander on fish (that was intended as a joke by the way) :greengrin :wink:

[Harpandcastle]

Well, I can only say I'm glad I didn't join in with it even in the heat of the moment.

On a level with the Skacel song. ****ing embarrassing.

dont talk ******

[LiverpoolHibs]

I didn't sing the song. However I think it was intended to be a laugh, as opposed to being racist.

A bit like the Stevie Fulton "So ****en ugly" and "booked for being ugly" songs a few years ago. Also like the "We hate Jimmy Hill, he's a poof" song that the Tartan Army sing.

I think there is a danger in reading too much into some songs to be honest.

Throwing bananas and making monkey noises (like the Hearts fans did to Mark Walters a few years back) is a different kettle of fish.....apologies if you think that comment was a slander on fish (that was intended as a joke by the way) :greengrin :wink:

The Fulton song is funny.

The Jimmy Hill song isn't, it's homophobic (cue apologism and accusations of 'political correctness gone mad').

The Kingston song is racist.

Simple as, and I'm embarrassed as **** that it caught on despite people snubbing the Skacel song when that was sung by a few ****-wits

[LiverpoolHibs]

dont talk ******

Such eloquence!

[Storar]

Such eloquence!

Oh yar!

[Austinho]

I would agree that, while not particularly funny, its not 'out and out' racism. If it was racist against black people, why was it only directed at Kingston, and not the countless black players at Easter Road before?

I think its more to do with his 'cheeky chappy' appearance and attitude than anything else. The guys that sell watches and other tat aboard are generally black, with a bright colourful dress sense, (Kingston had a multicoloured hair band with dreadlocks!), a massive cheecky smile (again, like Kingston, and a bit of a swagger. Example (http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/00/1d/a7/d9/lucky-lucky-man-benalmadena.jpg).
Just a stereotype, nothing more sinister than that in my opinion.

Just because he is black, doesn't make it racist. Thats like him being excluded from jokes and insults, just because he is black and isn't exactly treating him equal. I doubt any black person would find the comparison particularly offensive, and some people (usually labelled the PC brigade) seem to loose sight of that.

Hope that makes sense.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Oh yar!

[As above...]

[matty_f]

I have to say (and I very strongly class myself as a paid up member of the PC brigade) that we are in real danger of taking songs sung at football games totally out of context at times.

Without going into specifics of songs, aren't we all just getting a little precious about songs where the main objective is to either support your own side or cause offense to the opposition?

I dunno:dunno: but it does seem like a lot of folk are very easily offended at things these days, sometimes rightly so, but I think there's a case for a bit of perspective at the football.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I have to say (and I very strongly class myself as a paid up member of the PC brigade) that we are in real danger of taking songs sung at football games totally out of context at times.

Without going into specifics of songs, aren't we all just getting a little precious about songs where the main objective is to either support your own side or cause offense to the opposition?

I dunno:dunno: but it does seem like a lot of folk are very easily offended at things these days, sometimes rightly so, but I think there's a case for a bit of perspective at the football.

Indubitably :agree:

[Storar]

I have to say (and I very strongly class myself as a paid up member of the PC brigade) that we are in real danger of taking songs sung at football games totally out of context at times.

Without going into specifics of songs, aren't we all just getting a little precious about songs where the main objective is to either support your own side or cause offense to the opposition?

I dunno:dunno: but it does seem like a lot of folk are very easily offended at things these days, sometimes rightly so, but I think there's a case for a bit of perspective at the football.

It comes down to consistency (or the lack of it).

For example, if someone shouted "**** off back to Glasgow ya buckie guzzling junkie" at Barry Ferguson, there would not be a single word said about it. Nobody would be offended, nobody would be ejected from the ground, nobody would be banned from going to matches and the media would not care in the slightest.

Can anyone really say that the same thing would happen if someone shouted "**** off back to Guinea ya mango munching cannibal" at Bobo Balde?

Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Now I completely expect one of those statements I've posted to be removed. I wonder which one it will be?

If people want equality then they have to realise that equlity doesn't mean that they get preferential treatment over others.

[lacostelad]

When i was on holiday in tenerife a few years ago , at night there were big coloured guys who went around selling watches and the sort and i think the songs was comparing kingston to one of these ppl

I lived in Los C for a year, and worked in Playa De Americas. I kept myself to myself with these blokes. You cannot **** with them, as they WILL cut you open. Maybe it has cleaned up it's act a bit of late, this was back in the day when John Palmer and Island Village (his, 'timeshare' operation), ran the place.

[LiverpoolHibs]

It comes down to consistency (or the lack of it).

For example, if someone shouted "**** off back to Glasgow ya buckie guzzling junkie" at Barry Ferguson, there would not be a single word said about it. Nobody would be offended, nobody would be ejected from the ground, nobody would be banned from going to matches and the media would not care in the slightest.

Can anyone really say that the same thing would happen if someone shouted "**** off back to Africa ya mango munching cannibal" at Bobo Balde?

Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Now I completely expect one of those statements I've posted to be removed. I wonder which one it will be?

If people want equality then they have to realise that equlity doesn't mean that they get preferential treatment over others.

Do you seriously think there is equivalence between those two statements?!

[matty_f]

It comes down to consistency (or the lack of it).

For example, if someone shouted "**** off back to Glasgow ya buckie guzzling junkie" at Barry Ferguson, there would not be a single word said about it. Nobody would be offended, nobody would be ejected from the ground, nobody would be banned from going to matches and the media would not care in the slightest.

Can anyone really say that the same thing would happen if someone shouted "**** off back to Africa ya mango munching cannibal" at Bobo Balde?

Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Now I completely expect one of those statements I've posted to be removed. I wonder which one it will be?

If people want equality then they have to realise that equlity doesn't mean that they get preferential treatment over others.

Aye, but it's true about Ferguson...:greengrin

[Storar]

Do you seriously think there is equivalence between those two statements?!

Yes I do. And before you ask, here is my explanation.

I have written two identical statements each containing four variables.

These variables are:

1. Country/City of origin (Glasgow/Africa)
2. food or drink that is associated with said country or city (Buckie/Mango)
3. Techniques in which one would consume said food or drink (guzzle/munch)
4. stereotype which is associated with a person from said city/country that is used in a derogatory manner (Junkie/cannibal)

Therefore I believe that neither one is in any way worse than the other.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Yes I do. And before you ask, here is my explanation.

I have written two identical statements each containing four variables.

These variables are:

1. Country/City of origin (Glasgow/Africa)
2. food or drink that is associated with said country or city (Buckie/Mango)
3. Techniques in which one would consume said food or drink (guzzle/munch)
4. stereotype which is associated with a person from said city/country that is used in a derogatory manner (Junkie/cannibal)

Therefore I believe that neither one is in any way worse than the other.

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

[Storar]

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

:hilarious

So out of all that the only thing you can disect from it is the fact that Africa isn't a country :hilarious Something that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic in any way at all, but why should that matter, you always find something to answer back to:thumbsup:

Your standards are slipping mate:greengrin

I'll edit the post to say 'Guinea' instead of 'Africa' :aok:

Apart from that, I never mentioned racism.

[McHibby]

I lived in Los C for a year, and worked in Playa De Americas. I kept myself to myself with these blokes. You cannot **** with them, as they WILL cut you open. Maybe it has cleaned up it's act a bit of late, this was back in the day when John Palmer and Island Village (his, 'timeshare' operation), ran the place.


:wtf::wtf::wtf:

[GC]

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

LH,

Honestly mate after reading a fair few of your posts I feel that you can sometimes make something out of nothing/bit too PC

It's not a racist song IMO, to some it may be bad taste but you make things out to be a hell of alot worse than they should really be sometimes.

My advice to you.....................Chill, become a bit more laid back:greengrin

[Speedy]

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

I think he has a point.

What exactly is racist about it?

[lacostelad]

:wtf::wtf::wtf:

In regard to the Looky Looky men in Tenerife.

That is who I was talking about.

Still. You are not the only one that is confused.com.

Some Hearts fan thought he was being called a Lucky Lucky Man!

[Chuckie]

Liverpool Hibs stole my hubcaps.... Stole my hubcaps .... stole my hubcaps... Liverpool Hibs stole my hubcaps... Thieving scouser...

Is that racist ??

Same thing as the old Looky Looky song the way I see it..

[Bayern Bru]

I'm not getting involved, merely making a point.

if Larry Kingston was a white player from, say, Stoke on Trent, he wouldn't be called "a looky looky man."

It was sung because he's black, and a lot of "looky looky men" are black.

Therefore, it was sung because of the colour of his skin.
However, most people define racism as hatred for a particular race.
So, singing a song like that might not be termed "racist" per se, but it certainly has a dubious nature and could be argued that it's racially motivated.

Endof. Now can we all move on?

[Speedy]

I'm not getting involved, merely making a point.

if Larry Kingston was a white player from, say, Stoke on Trent, he wouldn't be called "a looky looky man."

It was sung because he's black, and a lot of "looky looky men" are black.

Therefore, it was sung because of the colour of his skin.
However, most people define racism as hatred for a particular race.
So, singing a song like that might not be termed "racist" per se, but it certainly has a dubious nature and could be argued that it's racially motivated.

Endof. Now can we all move on?

Then why Kingston and not Nade?

[GC]

I'm not getting involved, merely making a point.

if Larry Kingston was a white player from, say, Stoke on Trent, he wouldn't be called "a looky looky man."

It was sung because he's black, and a lot of "looky looky men" are black.

Therefore, it was sung because of the colour of his skin.
However, most people define racism as hatred for a particular race.
So, singing a song like that might not be termed "racist" per se, but it certainly has a dubious nature and could be argued that it's racially motivated.

Endof. Now can we all move on?

I think it's more culturally motivated rather than racially:agree:

Same as in a Scouser or a Weegie getting it tight for certain traits they're city may carry.

[Bayern Bru]

Then why Kingston and not Nade?

You're asking the wrong person.

Besides, Nade was getting enough stick about his apparent weight:wink:

Joking aside, I personally think it's that Nade doesn't look like a stereotypical "looky looky man" in the eyes of those chanting.

[McHibby]

In regard to the Looky Looky men in Tenerife.

That is who I was talking about.

Still. You are not the only one that is confused.com.

Some Hearts fan thought he was being called a Lucky Lucky Man!

:greengrin

Sorry, I was having an extended blonde moment.

[Bayern Bru]

I think it's more culturally motivated rather than racially:agree:

Same as in a Scouser or a Weegie getting it tight for certain traits they're city may carry.

Aye, i think culturally motivated is better now i think of it.
Either way, it's definitely a grey area.
I don't even think it's down to the "political-correctness-gone-mad" world we live in currently. I think it's just better to avoid any chant that could be questionable:agree:

...Perhaps I should stop participating in "In your Glasgow/Gorgie slums..."
:hmmm::lips seal

[Storar]

I'm not getting involved, merely making a point.

if Larry Kingston was a white player from, say, Stoke on Trent, he wouldn't be called "a looky looky man."

It was sung because he's black, and a lot of "looky looky men" are black.

Therefore, it was sung because of the colour of his skin.
However, most people define racism as hatred for a particular race.
So, singing a song like that might not be termed "racist" per se, but it certainly has a dubious nature and could be argued that it's racially motivated.

Endof. Now can we all move on?

Or you could see it from another point of view.

We wouldn't call Barry Ferguson a looky looky man because he in no way resembles one.

We wouldn't call Larry Kingston a ned because he in no way resembles one.

The song has nothing to do with race. The last time I checked, Looky Looky Man was not a race!*

Ferguson gets compared to a ned because of his appearance, and his background.

Riordan gets compared to a junkie because of his appearance and background.

Kingston gets compared to a looky looky man because of his appearance and background.

The only person that is singling Larry Kingston out based on race is LiverpoolHibs. The rest are just slagging off yet another overpaid, underperforming Hearts passenger:agree:

*disclaimer, I never checked to see if Looky Looky Man was a race :greengrin

[Bayern Bru]

In regard to the Looky Looky men in Tenerife.

That is who I was talking about.

Still. You are not the only one that is confused.com.

Some Hearts fan thought he was being called a Lucky Lucky Man!

Why, did he get paid this week?!
:wink:

[Bayern Bru]

Or you could see it from another point of view.

We wouldn't call Barry Ferguson a looky looky man because he in no way resembles one.

We wouldn't call Larry Kingston a ned because he in no way resembles one.

The song has nothing to do with race. The last time I checked, Looky Looky Man was not a race!*

Ferguson gets compared to a ned because of his appearance, and his background.

Riordan gets compared to a junkie because of his appearance and background.

Kingston gets compared to a looky looky man because of his appearance and background.

The only person that is singling Larry Kingston out based on race is LiverpoolHibs. The rest are just slagging off yet another overpaid, underperforming Hearts passenger:agree:

*disclaimer, I never checked to see if Looky Looky Man was a race :greengrin:

interesting.
:hmmm:

i think this kinda fits in with what Gregg reckoned, and what i agreed with; that it's more culturally than racially motivated.
:agree:

good point though.

[FastEddieFelson]

one of the worst football chants i've ever heard

[Calvin]

I think the tone of it has to be taken into consideration. If we take the comparison with the Skacel song, it's clearly a different manner.

To call someone a "****ing Refugee" is clearly quite derogatory and almost hateful. Calling someone a "Looky Looky Man" is clearly not along the same lines, it's in jest and some people need to remember that.

A way I look at it, and it's not foolproof before the PC brigade come up with examples to prove me wrong, is to think of the last line before a fight breaks out in some kind of film. "Rudi, you ****ing refugee" is clearly incitement, but "Larry, you remind me of a Looky Looky man from Tenerife" is different entirely.

While I can easily see why someone would construe it as racism, it isn't. I like Storar's Africa/Glasgow comparison earlier. While multiculturalism is still coming through, sometimes we are over-cautious. While I agree that is is better to be over-cautious than under-cautious, you need to examine things carefully before you brand someone a racist.

This is not racism, just a stupid football song, based on the fact that he actually does look like a 'Looky Looky Man'. And for those who think it is racist, is "Fat Eddie Murphy" racist too?

[Hibs90]

I would say this is more of a stereotype than out and out racism.

:agree:


The Fulton song is funny.

The Jimmy Hill song isn't, it's homophobic (cue apologism and accusations of 'political correctness gone mad').

The Kingston song is racist.

Simple as, and I'm embarrassed as **** that it caught on despite people snubbing the Skacel song when that was sung by a few ****-wits

It's not racist as they are not referring to the colour of his skin more to he looks like your typical timeshare persona.


It comes down to consistency (or the lack of it).

For example, if someone shouted "**** off back to Glasgow ya buckie guzzling junkie" at Barry Ferguson, there would not be a single word said about it. Nobody would be offended, nobody would be ejected from the ground, nobody would be banned from going to matches and the media would not care in the slightest.

Can anyone really say that the same thing would happen if someone shouted "**** off back to Guinea ya mango munching cannibal" at Bobo Balde?
Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Now I completely expect one of those statements I've posted to be removed. I wonder which one it will be?

If people want equality then they have to realise that equlity doesn't mean that they get preferential treatment over others.

The bit in bold is the funniest thing i've read in a while even though it is offensive/racist. :faf:

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Was gonna mention the "Fat Eddie Murphy" chant but someone beat me to it.

Eddie Murphy is black,Christian Nade is black and bears a slight resemblance to him minus the 12 extra chins, hence the song.

If Laryea Kingston looks like a Looky Looky Man, then sing it if that's what you want to do, it's not racist at all. It's a resemblance regardless of what colour anyone is.

Should we start singing that Laryea Kingston looks like Danny de Vito instead?

For what it's worth, I think it's an amusing resemblance but a pretty crap chant.

Still, there's no racism in it whatsoever.

[Dashing Bob S]

My own view on this, for it's worth is:

The song is borderline; mild, low grade, music hall/primary school playground ethnocentricity, not the bare-knuckled, hate-fueled racism that incites people to violence.

It's a bit like a bunch of English football supporters singing "One Rab C Nesbitt..." at some Chic Charnleyesque player in the first division, which happened years ago at some Notts County game I was at. As a Scot, I didn't feel offended, I laughed along with it.

Kingston seems the type of guy who, if he understood what the crowd was singing, would probably laugh at it too.

I will say though, that it's not something I did or would personally sing. I've no real problem with the song itself, but I generally think chants of that type do give succour to genuine racist simpletons in their bids to up the stakes.

This one really is in the grey area where its all about opinions, and I don't think namecalling each other as 'racist' or 'PC' actually helps anything.

[EH6 Hibby]

Deary me, it seems to me that some people just want to see the bad/offensive in certain situations, just about every song sung at football games in every country will offend someone, be it the opposition fans or people with one eye as per the Hearts charming wee ditty, or the "Are you Zibi in disguise?" that was sung at the Hearts keeper (surely Zibi would be offended at that?) I heard a fair few insults directed at Mikey Stewart regarding the colour of his hair, surely the Gingers of the world would be offended? Where does it all end? I can't think of many songs sung at Hibs games that wouldn't offend someone except maybe GGTTH, and as has already been pointed out, I think we need to look at the context a song is sung in before deeming it racist/offensive. :rolleyes:

[AndyM_1875]

Kingston seems the type of guy who, if he understood what the crowd was singing, would probably laugh at it too.


Correct. Larea Kingston is exactly the sort of guy who would have a laugh and a joke with any football fan. He wouldn't give a toss about that song and indulging in PC handwringing sessions over a pretty infantile chant is pointless.
People often seem to be looking for a reason to be offended these days.

In any case Larea Kingston is taking 15 grand a week from these clowns, so who is having the last laugh?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Some Hearts fan thought he was being called a Lucky Lucky Man!

:hilarious

Well done to Storar for his points on this thread. They get the point across very well. :aok:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Correct. Larea Kingston is exactly the sort of guy who would have a laugh and a joke with any football fan. He wouldn't give a toss about that song and indulging in PC handwringing sessions over a pretty infantile chant is pointless.
People often seem to be looking for a reason to be offended these days.

In any case Larea Kingston is taking 15 grand a week from these clowns, so who is having the last laugh?

:agree: Spot on with the statement in bold.

He laughed a couple of times when he was offered some real cash and some Vlad notes when hwas warming up. Seemed a decent guy IMO.

[lapsedhibee]

Well done to Storar for his points on this thread. They get the point across very well. :aok:
:agree:

After considering Storar's and LiverpoolHibs's standpoints, I find myself wondering whether the apparent constant need to find comments directed towards a black person 'racist' is not itself a form of racism.

[Steve-O]

:agree:

After considering Storar's and LiverpoolHibs's standpoints, I find myself wondering whether the apparent constant need to find comments directed towards a black person 'racist' is not itself a form of racism.

:agree:

It seems that you cannot say anything about a black person without it being considered racist, even when neither race, nor colour, really have anything to do with what is said!

[Dipped flake]

Never heard the chants but think it is taking it a bit far to call them racist. As a few others have said, think people look too much for racism. I'm sure Kingston would have laughed if he had heard it; in fact now I come to think of it maybe he did and he was falling over with laughter every time he slipped.

[Harpandcastle]

I lived in Los C for a year, and worked in Playa De Americas. I kept myself to myself with these blokes. You cannot **** with them, as they WILL cut you open. Maybe it has cleaned up it's act a bit of late, this was back in the day when John Palmer and Island Village (his, 'timeshare' operation), ran the place.

My dad had a place there many moons ago.

[The_Todd]

During the match, I had no idea what a "looky looky" man was, so didn't participate.

Looking through this thread, I'm pretty sure it's not racist - just a bad joke! And given how much stick he was laughing off before the match from the guys in the row in front of me (waving tenners at him - funny at first, tedious after 10 minutes, then I was wishing the money would get blown away 5 minutes after that) I'm sure he wouldn't be offended.

During a derby, there's 22 men on the pitch and as far as I'm concerned they're all fair game for a bit of banter, regardless of colour, race, background etc. Those who do make an issue of it are the racists - they're the ones treating people differently because of skin colour.

[clerriehibs]

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

What's racist about the looky looky song? If he looks like one of those guys, he looks like one of them, if folk find that funny, then let them. What's racist about it?

[clerriehibs]

:agree:

After considering Storar's and LiverpoolHibs's standpoints, I find myself wondering whether the apparent constant need to find comments directed towards a black person 'racist' is not itself a form of racism.


Good point.

Some folk say I look like the scottish cup, because of my big ears.

Others say I look like concorde, because of my big nose.

Other folk just say I'm ugly.

Until I am denied job opportunities, threatened in the street, paid less, or considered to be a lesser human being in any way because of the way I look, I won't call any of my detractors big ear-ist, big nose-ist, nor ugly-ist.

[Keith_M]

Good point.

Some folk say I look like the scottish cup, because of my big ears.

Others say I look like concorde, because of my big nose.

And some people call me Donkey, but that's another story...

:wink:

[khib70]

I think he has a point.

What exactly is racist about it?
Liverpool Hibs is right on the money on this one and if you and others can't see it, that's a bit disappointing. How many songs making specific references to places of origin were sung at white Hearts players? That's what's racist about it. Sometimes we don't get the supporters we deserve.

[The Voice Of Reason]

LH,

Honestly mate after reading a fair few of your posts I feel that you can sometimes make something out of nothing/bit too PC

It's not a racist song IMO, to some it may be bad taste but you make things out to be a hell of alot worse than they should really be sometimes.

My advice to you.....................Chill, become a bit more laid back:greengrin

Agree 100% Gregg. :agree:

Liverpool Hibs - from reading through the now large number of posts on this thread, you are in the vast minority here. Chill my friend ! (I realise that sounds patronising, it is not meant to be).:cool2:

[lapsedhibee]

Liverpool Hibs is right on the money on this one and if you and others can't see it, that's a bit disappointing. How many songs making specific references to places of origin were sung at white Hearts players? That's what's racist about it. Sometimes we don't get the supporters we deserve.

Did you even read Storar's posts? :dunno:

[khib70]

Did you even read Storar's posts? :dunno:
Read them, don't agree with them. Sorry:dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

Read them, don't agree with them. Sorry:dunno:
Find it interesting - though it may be just coincidence - that neither of the two people who have disagreed with Storar's thoughtful argument have taken the trouble to explain why they think it is wrong. You and LiverpoolHibs have effectively dismissed it and the several posters who have sympathised with at as in some way naive or ignorant (euphemistically, 'disappointing'). Many people find the concept of racism as currently understood in 21st century Britain troublesome - perhaps you may have to try harder than you are doing? :dunno:

"How many songs making specific references to places of origin were sung at white Hearts players?"
Dunno, but 'Gorgie slums' must come in to any answer.

[IanM]

There was one chant of "Kingston's Brown" to the tune of Kingston town which never generated into much.. a few disgruntled noises were heard to say the least but as far as looky looky man, seems just to be poknig fun at his resemblence more than anything else..

[khib70]

Find it interesting - though it may be just coincidence - that neither of the two people who have disagreed with Storar's thoughtful argument have taken the trouble to explain why they think it is wrong. You and LiverpoolHibs have effectively dismissed it and the several posters who have sympathised with at as in some way naive or ignorant (euphemistically, 'disappointing'). Many people find the concept of racism as currently understood in 21st century Britain troublesome - perhaps you may have to try harder than you are doing? :dunno:

"How many songs making specific references to places of origin were sung at white Hearts players?"
Dunno, but 'Gorgie slums' must come in to any answer.
It seems pretty clear to me that the "looky looky" garbage was directed at Kingston for no other reason than his being black. In that context "looky looky man" is much the same and just as reprehensible as "mango muncher" or even "jungle bunny".

If you read any of my other posts you would know that I'm a big opponent of PC in general, since it's basically chattering class thought policing. It disturbs me however, that people think that racism, homophobia etc are acceptable simply and exclusively in the context of a football match. It also worries me that people have problems with the current understanding of "racism". What's to understand? Abuse directed at individuals or groups which is solely related to their racial origin is racist. End of.Racism is unacceptable, racists are fuds - even if they're "our" fuds.

[sadtom]

My own view on this, for it's worth is:

The song is borderline; mild, low grade, music hall/primary school playground ethnocentricity, not the bare-knuckled, hate-fueled racism that incites people to violence.

It's a bit like a bunch of English football supporters singing "One Rab C Nesbitt..." at some Chic Charnleyesque player in the first division, which happened years ago at some Notts County game I was at. As a Scot, I didn't feel offended, I laughed along with it.

Kingston seems the type of guy who, if he understood what the crowd was singing, would probably laugh at it too.

I will say though, that it's not something I did or would personally sing. I've no real problem with the song itself, but I generally think chants of that type do give succour to genuine racist simpletons in their bids to up the stakes.

This one really is in the grey area where its all about opinions, and I don't think namecalling each other as 'racist' or 'PC' actually helps anything.

Agreed.

To make comparisons with scousers and weegies is plain wrong. To my knowledge they have never been the victims of institutionalised racism which used to take the form of slavery and wholesale murder with impunity. Which now still exist in the through higher percentages police stop and searches (fact) and lower job prospects (fact) amongst other day to day predudices that black people face.
The song isn't 'slavering at the mouth racism' but is designed to re-enforce stereotypes. Do we look at people with dreadlocks and sing 'Larry Kingston is surgeon, lawyer' etc? No we dont he is, according to some, a looky looky man!
This is encouraging stereotypes in the same way that 'going to the paki's' (shop) and having a 'chinky' (chinese food) demean these people to being identified and associated with a 'role' in life and for them to be thought of outside that role as 'wrong' or 'unusual'.
This song can only help to entrench the pigeonholing of certain people which can only lead to further ignorance, intorelarance and ultimately racism, even if some may attempt to argue that the song intself is not racist.
Bin the song.

[lapsedhibee]

Do we look at people with dreadlocks and sing 'Larry Kingston is surgeon, lawyer' etc?

Agree with much of your post, but genuinely confused at this. As many have argued, the looky looky thing was entirely to do with Kingston's appearance, not his colour. (Even if 100% per cent of real looky looky men are in fact black, it can still be about appearance, not colour.) As surgeons and lawyers do not generally appear in dreadlocks, why would anyone sing that? :dunno:

[sadtom]

Agree with much of your post, but genuinely confused at this. As many have argued, the looky looky thing was entirely to do with Kingston's appearance, not his colour. (Even if 100% per cent of real looky looky men are in fact black, it can still be about appearance, not colour.) As surgeons and lawyers do not generally appear in dreadlocks, why would anyone sing that? :dunno:

I'll bet there are more rasta surgeons and lawers in the UK than 'looky looky men'! so why would anybody sing that?

[lapsedhibee]

It seems pretty clear to me that the "looky looky" garbage was directed at Kingston for no other reason than his being black.
....
It also worries me that people have problems with the current understanding of "racism". What's to understand?
Can't speak for other people obviously, but this is the problem with my understanding of your understanding of racism. You seem to me to have decided on no evidence whatsoever that Kingston was singled out for this because he is black. Which to me is like assuming that Stevie Fulton was singled out for abuse because he is white.

Nade would not have suffered the Fat Eddie Murphy chants if he was white. So in your mind, presumably, the Fat Eddie Murphy chant is racist. In my mind it is clearly, clearly, 100%, totally and utterly, fattist and 0%, nada, not at all, never in a million years, racist.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'll bet there are more rasta surgeons and lawers in the UK than 'looky looky men'! so why would anybody sing that?

Fair enough then. What tune do you suggest singing "Larry Kingston is a rasta surgeon" to? Could well catch on for 3/1/09.

[southfieldhibby]

:agree:

It seems that you cannot say anything about a black person without it being considered racist, even when neither race, nor colour, really have anything to do with what is said!

Which isnt the case in this point.The only reason people sung the song was because of his colour.

The song was awful, racist pure and simple.It was a song to extract the urine and belittle Kingston, purely based on the colour of his skin.
People on Hibs boards get all hot and bothered about what songs Hearts fans sings,taking moral high grounds whenever possible.

Hibs fans attacked a bus with kids on it yesterday, Hibs fans sung songs about a black man and a man from the czech republic.Our support is no better than theirs.

[lapsedhibee]

I'll bet there are more rasta surgeons and lawers in the UK than 'looky looky men'! so why would anybody sing that?
I don't know the respective stats on rasta surgeons, lawyers and looky looky men. Where is LHWM when you need him? :dunno:

Maybe the chanters also don't know the stats, and have had more dealings with looky looky men (on their holidays) than rasta surgeons (are there many in Edinburgh, for example?). Why are UK numbers important anyway? Hibs are an Edinburgh team, a Scottish team.

[PiemanP]

Or you could see it from another point of view.

We wouldn't call Barry Ferguson a looky looky man because he in no way resembles one.

We wouldn't call Larry Kingston a ned because he in no way resembles one.

The song has nothing to do with race. The last time I checked, Looky Looky Man was not a race!*

Ferguson gets compared to a ned because of his appearance, and his background.

Riordan gets compared to a junkie because of his appearance and background.

Kingston gets compared to a looky looky man because of his appearance and background.

The only person that is singling Larry Kingston out based on race is LiverpoolHibs. The rest are just slagging off yet another overpaid, underperforming Hearts passenger:agree:

*disclaimer, I never checked to see if Looky Looky Man was a race :greengrin


:agree: fully agree with storar there, people like LH are trying to make a big deal out of nothing, its a tounge in cheek song and is in no way racist IMO just as said poster mentioned callin barry ferguson a buckie swiggin ned isnt racist either!

liverpool hibs, you need to lighten up a little, i get the feeling if you could choose the songs we sang at ER, the only ones we would be singing would be blooody nursery rhymes...

[Danderhall Hibs]

:agree: fully agree with storar there, people like LH are trying to make a big deal out of nothing, its a tounge in cheek song and is in no way racist IMO just as said poster mentioned callin barry ferguson a buckie swiggin ned isnt racist either!

liverpool hibs, you need to lighten up a little, i get the feeling if you could choose the songs we sang at ER, the only ones we would be singing would be blooody nursery rhymes...

With the obvious exception of baa baa black sheep. Pure racism.

[lacostelad]

My own view is that the Looky Looky man thing was not esp offensive, and was not really intended in an overtly racist context. However....someone said earlier that 'the last time they looked, Looky Looky men were not a race'. True. How about then if people chanted 'Larry Kingston is a f***** gollywog'?

The last time I looked, a 'gollywog' was not a 'race' either.

:dunno:

[Danderhall Hibs]

My own view is that the Looky Looky man thing was not esp offensive, and was not really intended in an overtly racist context. However....someone said earlier that 'the last time they looked, Looky Looky men were not a race'. True. How about then if people chanted 'Larry Kingston is a f***** gollywog'?

The last time I looked, a 'gollywog' was not a 'race' either.

:dunno:

Correct - that's one of they dolls that used to be on jars of marmalade.

[The_Todd]

Can open. Worms everywhere.

[The Voice Of Reason]

With the obvious exception of baa baa black sheep. Pure racism.

Nice one....made me laugh anyway ! :LOL:

[khib70]

Can't speak for other people obviously, but this is the problem with my understanding of your understanding of racism. You seem to me to have decided on no evidence whatsoever that Kingston was singled out for this because he is black. Which to me is like assuming that Stevie Fulton was singled out for abuse because he is white.

Nade would not have suffered the Fat Eddie Murphy chants if he was white. So in your mind, presumably, the Fat Eddie Murphy chant is racist. In my mind it is clearly, clearly, 100%, totally and utterly, fattist and 0%, nada, not at all, never in a million years, racist.
And which white players were called "looky looky men"? I would say on the basis of incontrovertible evidence - none. Therefore it was directed at Kingston because of his race. Therefore, it was racist.

[Silver Fox]

Can open. Worms everywhere.

we have a smiley for that!


:worms:

[The_Todd]

we have a smiley for that!


:worms:

I knew that, I was just testing the Admins... :duck:

[Silver Fox]

I knew that, I was just testing the Admins... :duck:

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

And which white players were called "looky looky men"? I would say on the basis of incontrovertible evidence - none. Therefore it was directed at Kingston because of his race. Therefore, it was racist.
That's just completely false logic. In fact, not logic at all - it's just an obsession with finding racism everywhere. There were several black players on the field, and only one got singled out for the looky looky treatment. Therefore, logic dictates that the thing that caused the singling out is not the blackness, which several players had in common, but some particular thing about that black person which he had but that the other black people who were not singled out did not have. In this case, presumably, his appearance, which reminded the chanters of looky looky men.

Why do you think Nade (a black player from the same team as Kingston) was not called a looky looky man? Any ideas? :dunno:

[slingshot]

When i was on holiday in tenerife a few years ago , at night there were big coloured guys who went around selling watches and the sort and i think the songs was comparing kingston to one of these ppl


may i add that looky men are drug dealers, the watches and bling crap are just a front for their dealings. Its well known.:agree:

[MyJo]

Calling craig Gordon a lanky lesbian is sexist.
"sit down, shut up" is offensive to people in wheelchairs.
The giant vladnotes are xenophobic.
"in your gorgie slums" offends poor people.
the "we hate glasgow rangers" song is bordering on facism with the open hatred of so many different sections of scottish society.
Calling Aberdonians "sheepsh*ggers" is sterotyping people from aberdeen.....and sheep.
"can you hear the ____ sing" would upset deaf people if they knew it was being sung.

FACT ENDOF VIVE LA REVOLUTION AND SO ON :soapbox:

[Storar]

Calling craig Gordon a lanky lesbian is sexist.
"sit down, shut up" is offensive to people in wheelchairs.
The giant vladnotes are xenophobic.
"in your gorgie slums" offends poor people.
the "we hate glasgow rangers" song is bordering on facism with the open hatred of so many different sections of scottish society.
Calling Aberdonians "sheepsh*ggers" is sterotyping people from aberdeen.....and sheep.
"can you hear the ____ sing" would upset deaf people if they knew it was being sung.

FACT ENDOF VIVE LA REVOLUTION AND SO ON :soapbox:

source?

[MyJo]

source?

Mr O. Fendid, Liverpool.

[Grizz]

Normally I would say to this sort of thing that people are being far too pc as usual - BUT:

I watched a derby on my hols last year in a boozer which had a handful of Hertz bssas singing about how Maka sells watches doon the beach and I didnae find it too funny then, so (personally) I dinnae see the diff between what they were singing then and the "looky looky" thing sang yest:confused:

Pssed me off at the time on holiday, but then I expect that kinda shte from Hertz fans - Same as when you used to hear the huns singing "Bobo Balde peels bannanas with his feet".

Just ma 2 cents!:duck:

[sadtom]

Fair enough then. What tune do you suggest singing "Larry Kingston is a rasta surgeon" to? Could well catch on for 3/1/09.

How about 'Larry Kingston is a hertz b*start'?

[Danderhall Hibs]

How about 'Larry Kingston is a hertz b*start'?

Wee bit offensive to those born when their parents were out of wedlock IMO.

[khib70]

That's just completely false logic. In fact, not logic at all - it's just an obsession with finding racism everywhere. There were several black players on the field, and only one got singled out for the looky looky treatment. Therefore, logic dictates that the thing that caused the singling out is not the blackness, which several players had in common, but some particular thing about that black person which he had but that the other black people who were not singled out did not have. In this case, presumably, his appearance, which reminded the chanters of looky looky men.

Why do you think Nade (a black player from the same team as Kingston) was not called a looky looky man? Any ideas? :dunno:
So your logic is that its not racist because it was directed at one individual. Had it been sung about every black player on the pitch, would it be racist then? Because a guy chooses to wear his hair a certain way, is it legitimate to compare him to crooks and drug dealers? This song ticks all the boxes for racism. Yet once again we have "just a bit of banter" brigade trooping on here tying themselves in knots trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Pathetic!

[Chez]

So your logic is that its not racist because it was directed at one individual. Had it been sung about every black player on the pitch, would it be racist then? Because a guy chooses to wear his hair a certain way, is it legitimate to compare him to crooks and drug dealers? This song ticks all the boxes for racism. Yet once again we have "just a bit of banter" brigade trooping on here tying themselves in knots trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Pathetic!


:agree:

[The_Horde]

So your logic is that its not racist because it was directed at one individual. Had it been sung about every black player on the pitch, would it be racist then? Because a guy chooses to wear his hair a certain way, is it legitimate to compare him to crooks and drug dealers? This song ticks all the boxes for racism. Yet once again we have "just a bit of banter" brigade trooping on here tying themselves in knots trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Pathetic!

And once again we have the PC brigade 'wi their knickers in a twist'.

Take a chill.

[wilkie_1]

Which isnt the case in this point.The only reason people sung the song was because of his colour.

The song was awful, racist pure and simple.It was a song to extract the urine and belittle Kingston, purely based on the colour of his skin.
People on Hibs boards get all hot and bothered about what songs Hearts fans sings,taking moral high grounds whenever possible.

Hibs fans attacked a bus with kids on it yesterday, Hibs fans sung songs about a black man and a man from the czech republic.Our support is no better than theirs.

get a grip u sad person, it was a laugh get over it! if u hate our support that much support another team!!

[MyJo]

Because a guy chooses to wear his hair a certain way, is it legitimate to compare him to crooks and drug dealers?

We compare Barry Ferguson to crooks and vandals because of the way he chooses to talk...its not racist

We compare Robbie Nielson to a vagabond because of the way he chooses to wear his hair and beard.....its not racist

We call Artur Boruc an ersehole because he acts like an ersehole.....its not racist.

Why cant we jovially refer to kingston as a looky looky man because he chooses to style himself like one without the hyper-sensitive, perma-offended PC brigade denouncing it as racism because it happened to be us ribbing a black man.....sorry am i allowed to call him black or is that inappropriate as well :dunno: is "man of african decent inclusive of, but not limited to those of a dark skinned nature" suitable to everybodies oh so sensitive nature.

[Beefster]

It comes down to consistency (or the lack of it).

For example, if someone shouted "**** off back to Glasgow ya buckie guzzling junkie" at Barry Ferguson, there would not be a single word said about it. Nobody would be offended, nobody would be ejected from the ground, nobody would be banned from going to matches and the media would not care in the slightest.

Can anyone really say that the same thing would happen if someone shouted "**** off back to Guinea ya mango munching cannibal" at Bobo Balde?

Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Now I completely expect one of those statements I've posted to be removed. I wonder which one it will be?

Is Barry Ferguson being called a 'junkie" because it's a historically held stereotype that all white folk are? Is Bobo Balde being called a 'cannibal' because it's a historically held stereotype that all black folk are savage cannibals? If it's 'no' to Ferguson and 'yes' to Balde then it's racism.

I've no idea if the Kingston song is racist or not but this is the worst argument against it not being racist so far. Just for the record, as far as I know, Glaswegians haven't been subjected to hundreds of years of abuse, slavery and humiliation. I really can't see how they can be compared.

[PiemanP]

And once again we have the PC brigade 'wi their knickers in a twist'.

Take a chill.

:agree: some people getting so easily offended and making big deals out of nothing!

[GC]

Is Barry Ferguson being called a 'junkie" because it's a historically held stereotype that all white folk are? Is Bobo Balde being called a 'cannibal' because it's a historically held stereotype that all black folk are savage cannibals? If it's 'no' to Ferguson and 'yes' to Balde then it's racism.

I've no idea if the Kingston song is racist or not but this is the worst argument against it not being racist so far. Just for the record, as far as I know, Glaswegians haven't been subjected to hundreds of years of abuse, slavery and humiliation. I really can't see how they can be compared.


This is what gets me, we all know that black people were subjected to a horrific life of slavery, abuse and humiliation.

BUT there is a difference in being racist and having a joke at the expense of someone who bears a certain resemblance to figure we have all encountered at one time or another on our holidays.

I always feel that it is mostly white or should I say caucasian people who harp on about racism the most, as if protesting too much over certain comments they feel may be offensive to black people, to me this can come accross as a way to belittle them, this of course is not what the person intended but think for a minute, black people went through this and came out the other side, they have equal rights like every other person on this planet should have, those years of abuse are gone and to make any jokey comment made to a black person a reminder of their past to me is wrong.

I was at the game with a black friend of mine yesterday who was up from London, ok we never heard the song but I can assure you if we did then he would not have batted an eyelid, it was meant as a joke and that was the way it should be taken, all these people who jump on their high horses at the slightest hint of racism astounds me, like i said earlier it is as if you guys are protesting too much that you are whiter than white, or should I say blacker than black so as not to offend any coloured people reading.

Just to finish there was once a country which was also subjected to horrific abuse of their people many years ago, the abuse they suffered included the rape and murder of the countires citizens all this was done by a country that sits no more than a few miles from us.

Yet nowadays when I'm called a jock by an English person, I don't run and scream racism

[Beefster]

offend any coloured people reading.

Every black person I know finds being called 'coloured' offensive.

[Beefster]

I was at the game with a black friend of mine yesterday who was up from London, ok we never heard the song but I can assure you if we did then he would not have batted an eyelid, it was meant as a joke and that was the way it should be taken, all these people who jump on their high horses at the slightest hint of racism astounds me, like i said earlier it is as if you guys are protesting too much that you are whiter than white, or should I say blacker than black so as not to offend any coloured people reading.

And just for the record, you have imagined the part where I said the song was racist.

[southfieldhibby]

get a grip u sad person, it was a laugh get over it! if u hate our support that much support another team!!

Deary me, taunting someone due to the colour of their skin is comedy gold?What a scrote you appear to be.

And please dont be telling me who to support ya ****in trumpet.

[Speedy]

And which white players were called "looky looky men"? I would say on the basis of incontrovertible evidence - none. Therefore it was directed at Kingston because of his race. Therefore, it was racist.

Your logic is flawed here. You are making an assumption that because it was directed towards a black man it was directed at him solely because of his skin colour.


So your logic is that its not racist because it was directed at one individual. Had it been sung about every black player on the pitch, would it be racist then? Because a guy chooses to wear his hair a certain way, is it legitimate to compare him to crooks and drug dealers? This song ticks all the boxes for racism. Yet once again we have "just a bit of banter" brigade trooping on here tying themselves in knots trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Pathetic!

If someone was to sing that for all black men then it would definitely be racist but it wasn't.

You're also pretty much accepting that he is being compared to crooks and drug dealers because of his hair so that should surely rule out racism?

[maximushibee]

or larry kingston sells watches on the beach, watches on the beach, watches on the beach etc..

or wallace mercer he wont be home for tea, he wont be home for tea, he wont be home for tea.. really riled the hearts fans up

[Keith_M]

Which isnt the case in this point.The only reason people sung the song was because of his colour.

The song was awful, racist pure and simple.It was a song to extract the urine and belittle Kingston, purely based on the colour of his skin.
People on Hibs boards get all hot and bothered about what songs Hearts fans sings,taking moral high grounds whenever possible.


Now, I've personally never heard of a 'Looky, Looky' man before this thread but that would appear to be total nonsense. It was, apparently, because of his overall appearance, not just because he was black.

Are you really saying that all you can see about this guy is that he is black?

Is your argument that if someone is a certain skin colour they must be treated in a certain way (in this case immune to terracing chanting)?

That sounds awfully like racism to me.

[clerriehibs]

Every black person I know finds being called 'coloured' offensive.

Except by other from their own race, it would seem. Happens on the telly all the time. So why's that acceptable?

[Bobby D]

Has that boring b*****d LH bored himself to sleep yet?

***** sake how PC do you want a football terracing to be, it's banter, it's part of the game. No one was calling him a Bl*** B****** (Lorenzo Amoruso...) It's sang in Jest. It's a *****ING DERBY FOR GOD SAKE!!

Put's me off going to the games when people start shouting racism over a jestful terracing chant. And the "Homphobic" Jimmy Hill chant...seriously. Pipe down you.

[hibeenicol]

How long till we get a video of deeks singing it in the pub?:greengrin

[lacostelad]

How long till we get a video of deeks singing it in the pub?:greengrin

...or a nightclub.























































*whoops* :devil:

[Calvin]

I thought that was a decent post SoH. I have good friends that are neighbours from Rwanda and Mozambique. I'll talk to them and get their take on it. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how white people perceive it. It's how the people we are in danger of offending perceive it that counts.

[son of haggart]

I thought that was a decent post SoH. I have good friends that are neighbours from Rwanda and Mozambique. I'll talk to them and get their take on it. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how white people perceive it. It's how the people we are in danger of offending perceive it that counts.

That was my point Calvino

(but it came out all poncy and high amd mighty PC so I deleted it)

:wink:

[lapsedhibee]

SOH

I read your deleted post. It was good.

As a very slightly related question, I wonder what was the general yams' take on Kingston's racial abuse of the Scottish ref at Pittodrie. Did that make Kingston himself a racist at that time? What did/do you think about that? Or, if black people's views are to count for more than white people's (why, Calvino?), what are your black friends' views on it? :dunno:

[son of haggart]

SOH

I read your deleted post. It was good.

As a very slightly related question, I wonder what was the general yams' take on Kingston's racial abuse of the Scottish ref at Pittodrie. Did that make Kingston himself a racist at that time? What did/do you think about that? Or, if black people's views are to count for more than white people's (why, Calvino?), what are your black friends' views on it? :dunno:

I think Kingston caled the ref a racist (as he thought he was picking on him)

Clearly that is a sort of 'reverse racism' (especially as the ref probably wasn't a racist, being married to a black woman, though you can never be absolutely sure). I saw the game and thought the ref's decisions were poor but Kingston deserved to be sent off and censured for what he said. I think Kingston apologised later.

If he had watched videos of Scottish referees he would have realised incompetence, and OF bias are the problems there, not racism

[Disco Drisco]

And which white players were called "looky looky men"? I would say on the basis of incontrovertible evidence - none. Therefore it was directed at Kingston because of his race. Therefore, it was racist.

I'm a black guy living in central Scotland and I didn't find it offensive in the slightest. And if you think that's racist you must live a very sheltered life.

Still it's all about opinion. I found it funny.He does resemble a looky looky man.

[Cropley10]

I would agree that, while not particularly funny, its not 'out and out' racism. If it was racist against black people, why was it only directed at Kingston, and not the countless black players at Easter Road before?

I think its more to do with his 'cheeky chappy' appearance and attitude than anything else. The guys that sell watches and other tat aboard are generally black, with a bright colourful dress sense, (Kingston had a multicoloured hair band with dreadlocks!), a massive cheecky smile (again, like Kingston, and a bit of a swagger. Example (http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/00/1d/a7/d9/lucky-lucky-man-benalmadena.jpg).
Just a stereotype, nothing more sinister than that in my opinion.

Just because he is black, doesn't make it racist. Thats like him being excluded from jokes and insults, just because he is black and isn't exactly treating him equal. I doubt any black person would find the comparison particularly offensive, and some people (usually labelled the PC brigade) seem to loose sight of that.

Hope that makes sense.

It makes a great deal of sense.

It's actually very similar to calling Darchville a fat Eddy Murphy.

Except Kingston has a resemblance to people we've seen/met/bought stuff off on holiday rather than a Holywood film star.

Lets be honest he does look like these guys as much as Darchville looks like Eddie Murphy anyway.

Lets chill - no-one is insulting him about the colour of his skin or race, it's a looky likey thing. End of.

[son of haggart]

it's a looky likey thing. End of.

That's very droll

made me laugh, which is sometimes what's needed amongst all this seriousness.

[SunnyLeither]

It makes a great deal of sense.

It's actually very similar to calling Darchville a fat Eddy Murphy.

Except Kingston has a resemblance to people we've seen/met/bought stuff off on holiday rather than a Holywood film star.

Lets be honest he does look like these guys as much as Darchville looks like Eddie Murphy anyway.

Lets chill - no-one is insulting him about the colour of his skin or race, it's a looky likey thing. End of.

Someone near me thought he boar a striking resemblence to Whoopi Goldberg, had a wee chuckle but racism never crossed my mind.

[Cropley10]

I found it funny.He does resemble a looky looky man.

Interesting - just I was saying - and amusing SoH in the process.

[hibs1989]

Me and my friend where only people in West Stand that i could see, that stood up everytime Larry got the ball and chanted "larry kingston sells watches on the beach watches on the beach watches on the beach" which was received by roars of laughter from people around us. its an edinburgh bloody derby, these people complaining and far to politically correct.

Anyway I Aint A Racist I Got A Coloured TV!?!?!?! ( or that joke not politically correct???"

:brickwall

[son of haggart]

Anyway I Aint A Racist I Got A Coloured TV!?!?!?! ( or that joke not politically correct???"

:brickwall

Not funny enough, you racist

:wink:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I'm a black guy living in central Scotland and I didn't find it offensive in the slightest. And if you think that's racist you must live a very sheltered life.

Still it's all about opinion. I found it funny.He does resemble a looky looky man.

Aw Man! you've blown it now! Hang around though, you'll need to be instructed by khib70 and LiverpoolHibs as to whether wou were actually racially abused or not.

You've hit the nail on the head. I suspect kib70 and LiverpoolHibs have lead very sheltered lives, I suspect their moral indegnation at every keystroke on this website is the only conflict they encounter.

I have spent a fair few years working in England and abroad. That sort of life experience helps afford you the ability to differentiate between racial intent or good natured banter, and to deal with it in a mature manner.

[The Voice Of Reason]

I'm a black guy living in central Scotland and I didn't find it offensive in the slightest. And if you think that's racist you must live a very sheltered life.

Still it's all about opinion. I found it funny.He does resemble a looky looky man.

Checkmate on the Racist argument me thinks. :agree:

Wonder what Liverpool Hibs will say to that ?!?!? :cool2:

[son of haggart]

Checkmate on the Racist argument me thinks. :agree:

Wonder what Liverpool Hibs will say to that ?!?!? :cool2:

Don't think it is entirely checkmate. I mentioned this song to two black people today (in a business context). they were young people (20 and 30+) and were shocked that people didn't see it as racist.

Personally I am sure it was intended as a witticism rather than a racially motivated slur, and intention means a lot. But it's probably best to err on the side of caution when the jokes can (and will ) be misinterpreted.

[lacostelad]

As a very slightly related question, I wonder what was the general yams' take on Kingston's racial abuse of the Scottish ref at Pittodrie. Did that make Kingston himself a racist at that time? What did/do you think about that? Or, if black people's views are to count for more than white people's (why, Calvino?), what are your black friends' views on it? :dunno:

It didn't make him (Kingston), a racist, it made him a freaking idiot.

Btw, for what it's worth, I think these Looky Looky chants have been totally blown out of proportion. It is all about context, imo, and the nature in which something is said. These days, we have too many peeps just LOOKING for a reason to be offended.

[Disco Drisco]

Don't think it is entirely checkmate. I mentioned this song to two black people today (in a business context). they were young people (20 and 30+) and were shocked that people didn't see it as racist.

Personally I am sure it was intended as a witticism rather than a racially motivated slur, and intention means a lot. But it's probably best to err on the side of caution when the jokes can (and will ) be misinterpreted.

How did you manage to bring Larry Kingston looking like a looky looky man into a business conversation?

"So that concludes my presention on the 3rd Quarter downturn due to the current economic climate, an questions?"

"No"

"Good, now to more important things did any if you see the Hibs game on the box? Apparently the Hibs fans were referring to Larry Kingston the Ghanaian guy with the dreads as a Looky Looky man"

"Shocking don't you think? Black dudes - over to you"

:wink:

[Removed]

How did you manage to bring Larry Kingston looking like a looky looky man into a business conversation?

"So that concludes my presention on the 3rd Quarter downturn due to the current economic climate, an questions?"

"No"

"Good, now to more important things did any if you see the Hibs game on the box? Apparently the Hibs fans were referring to Larry Kingston the Ghanaian guy with the dreads as a Looky Looky man"

"Shocking don't you think? Black dudes - over to you"

:wink:

:faf:

[son of haggart]

How did you manage to bring Larry Kingston looking like a looky looky man into a business conversation?

"So that concludes my presention on the 3rd Quarter downturn due to the current economic climate, an questions?"

"No"

"Good, now to more important things did any if you see the Hibs game on the box? Apparently the Hibs fans were referring to Larry Kingston the Ghanaian guy with the dreads as a Looky Looky man"

"Shocking don't you think? Black dudes - over to you"

:wink:

lol

remarkably enough I was dealing with a company which specialises in these kind of issues

May as well give them a free advert

http://www.mewe.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=7&Itemid=35

[Reg Reagan]

I'm still collectively embarrassed for a group I identify myself with.

Awful patter.

are you a yam????:confused::confused::confused:

[Reg Reagan]

Africa isn't a country.

Apart from that, you clearly have no idea as to what constitutes racism.

by the way where did you steal your avatar from?:greengrin:blah:

[MrRobot]

It's PC gone mad.

Get a grip, it's an Edinburgh derby. If there was any problem with it, the police would have been sorting it out.

Was a bit of fun, stop being so PC.

[MrRobot]

Why, did he get paid this week?!
:wink:


:thumbsup:

[Crossgates Hibs]

I'm a black guy living in central Scotland and I didn't find it offensive in the slightest. And if you think that's racist you must live a very sheltered life.

Still it's all about opinion. I found it funny.He does resemble a looky looky man.


Well said too much pc on here people need to stop getting their knickers in a twist over stuff that is border line. White people take more offence than black people says it all where things are going these days. Thank you for posting and putting the record straight Disco Drisco:agree:

[Storar]

How did you manage to bring Larry Kingston looking like a looky looky man into a business conversation?



:faint:

Try saying that 10 times, really quickly:bitchy:

[MyJo]

:faint:

Try saying that 10 times, really quickly:bitchy:

Careful now, we don't want it to seem like we're taking the piss out of people with speech impediments.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I never heard this last night but apparently Macar said this on Talk107 last night. Gary Mackay was really offended by it and slated him for it.

Did anyone hear this and if so did anyone phone in after Macar and mention the words Kevin Harper to him?

[CRAZYHIBBY]

pretty sad how some posters try to turn things into racist argument when there is no need or reason, ...kingston does resemble a looky looky man and calling him one is not racist....look at it this way for example looky looky men call us Del Boys ...is that Racist???? ....more like banter to me

[Cropley10]

I never heard this last night but apparently Macar said this on Talk107 last night. Gary Mackay was really offended by it and slated him for it.

Did anyone hear this and if so did anyone phone in after Macar and mention the words Kevin Harper to him?

Personally, I am sick of hearing Macar on radio phone ins.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Personally, I am sick of hearing Macar on radio phone ins.

I don't think you're the only one mate. My brother-in-law turns it over as soon as the presenter says he's on next!

[khib70]

Aw Man! you've blown it now! Hang around though, you'll need to be instructed by khib70 and LiverpoolHibs as to whether wou were actually racially abused or not.

You've hit the nail on the head. I suspect kib70 and LiverpoolHibs have lead very sheltered lives, I suspect their moral indegnation at every keystroke on this website is the only conflict they encounter.

I have spent a fair few years working in England and abroad. That sort of life experience helps afford you the ability to differentiate between racial intent or good natured banter, and to deal with it in a mature manner.
You know absolutely nothing about me (or Liverpool Hibs) so don't make arrogant assumptions. I have spent time in the Middle East, in the South of the US and other places and have probably seen more conflict in a week than you will your whole life.

If one black person chooses not to be offended. that's his right and I respect it. I've no intention of making ill-informed suppositions about him the way you do about anyone who fails to share your interpretation of things.

It annoys me to hear stuff like this because it is coming from the supporters of my football club. I've supported it for nearly 50 years and I hate some of the pig-ignorant garbage which emerges from a small group of meatheads in the stands. Every time an offensive chant is aired, the board is heaving with people wanting to justify it.

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem

[Steve-O]

You know absolutely nothing about me (or Liverpool Hibs) so don't make arrogant assumptions. I have spent time in the Middle East, in the South of the US and other places and have probably seen more conflict in a week than you will your whole life.

If one black person chooses not to be offended. that's his right and I respect it. I've no intention of making ill-informed suppositions about him the way you do about anyone who fails to share your interpretation of things.

It annoys me to hear stuff like this because it is coming from the supporters of my football club. I've supported it for nearly 50 years and I hate some of the pig-ignorant garbage which emerges from a small group of meatheads in the stands. Every time an offensive chant is aired, the board is heaving with people wanting to justify it.

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem

:faf:

And the fact they are there is because the board is heaving with people who are getting offended at nearly any chant that is made these days!

[khib70]

:faf:

And the fact they are there is because the board is heaving with people who are getting offended at nearly any chant that is made these days!
It's not the chants so much as the double standards. As long as our guys do it, it's OK. We'll have threads full of righteous indignation about the Famine Song and the merricks singing about Deano's one eye, but we'll all pile on and tie ourself in logical knots justifying offensive singing from our end.

"If you can't beat them, join them" is a pathetic response to offensive chants from visiting fans. But excuse me for detracting from the "all lads together, just a bit of banter" tone favoured by most on here.

[lapsedhibee]

:faf:

And the fact they are there is because the board is heaving with people who are getting offended at nearly any chant that is made these days!

Would prefer it if you didn't use that smilie any more. My auntie is bedridden and she cannot stand up straight to laugh - she has to laugh lying on her side, or on her back. You probably think, in your pig-ignorance, that the smilie is 'just a bit of banter' but it's not funny or clever to disrespect the disabled.

[lacostelad]

Would prefer it if you didn't use that smilie any more. My auntie is bedridden and she cannot stand up straight to laugh - she has to laugh lying on her side, or on her back. You probably think, in your pig-ignorance, that the smilie is 'just a bit of banter' but it's not funny or clever to disrespect the disabled.

Eye wood preefer it if yoo did nut spull sew will.

Eye am dislexik.

:grr:

[Beefster]

Would prefer it if you didn't use that smilie any more. My auntie is bedridden and she cannot stand up straight to laugh - she has to laugh lying on her side, or on her back. You probably think, in your pig-ignorance, that the smilie is 'just a bit of banter' but it's not funny or clever to disrespect the disabled.

What's your view on the Dean Shiels songs? Harmless banter or evidence of a complete lack of class on the Yams behalf?

[lapsedhibee]

What's your view on the Dean Shiels songs? Harmless banter or evidence of a complete lack of class on the Yams behalf?

Not really looking for class in fitba supporting - certainly don't have any substantial evidence that yams are less classy than us. I don't think it's funny that Deano only has one good eye, but imo it is probably possible to create humour out of the situation of a person only having one eye. Haven't so far heard any yam manage it. So, to answer your question, no it's not good banter, yes it is harmless, no it doesn't show a complete lack of class.

My guess is that psychological harm to a person with one eye comes about if he becomes defined as a one-eyed person. Probably Deano is defined by a large section of yams as just that, but since Deano's been a pro fitballer for ages he will be able to deal with that. I'm sure his clubmates don't define him as a one-eyed person. I fear that those Hibs fans who are very, very sensitive to yams' chants about Deano are in danger of falling into the camp of people who define him as a one-eyed person.

Fitba chanting in general might be seen as an opportunity for humour to be created. The fact that it often fails in that aim should not imo be a cause for losing sleep.

[capitals_finest]

The Fulton song is funny.

The Jimmy Hill song isn't, it's homophobic (cue apologism and accusations of 'political correctness gone mad').

The Kingston song is racist.

Simple as, and I'm embarrassed as **** that it caught on despite people snubbing the Skacel song when that was sung by a few ****-wits

Reply to harpandcastle:

Such eloquence!


Away and write an essay on it ya fanny.

How does that score for eloquence?


I missed the game and nobody told me about the song so reading this thread has introduced me to the song -along with others like me- and as good as ensured the song will be sung for the next few years. :thumbsup:

[matty_f]

Ok, probably a crappy argument for the song not being racist, but here's how I look at it...

A "looky, looky man" has a particular stereotypical image. It is a look that is associated with the "job" rather than anything racially stereotypical.

For instance, you could say that most looky looky men have dark skin, dreadlock-type hair, and look like they could kick seven shades of the proverbial out of you if you got on the wrong side of them.

You could not say the say about all black people, therefore looking like a looky looky man does not hold up as a racial stereotype.

If we use the example of a store santa clause, we instantly think of a fat, white man with a big white beard.

If Stevie Fulton had been playing on Sunday, sporting a big white beard and we sang "Stevie Fulton is an ugly santa clause" we would most definitely not be being racist.

Am I missing something majorly different between the two instances?

[lapsedhibee]

Ok, probably a crappy argument for the song not being racist, but here's how I look at it...

A "looky, looky man" has a particular stereotypical image. It is a look that is associated with the "job" rather than anything racially stereotypical.

For instance, you could say that most looky looky men have dark skin, dreadlock-type hair, and look like they could kick seven shades of the proverbial out of you if you got on the wrong side of them.

You could not say the say about all black people, therefore looking like a looky looky man does not hold up as a racial stereotype.

If we use the example of a store santa clause, we instantly think of a fat, white man with a big white beard.

If Stevie Fulton had been playing on Sunday, sporting a big white beard and we sang "Stevie Fulton is an ugly santa clause" we would most definitely not be being racist.

Am I missing something majorly different between the two instances?
Aye. Black and white are not interchangeable concepts like that because white people haven't been subjected to hunners of years of cruelty, subjugation, slavery, offensive fitba chants, etc.

[matty_f]

Aye. Black and white are not interchangeable concepts like that because white people haven't been subjected to hunners of years of cruelty, subjugation, slavery, offensive fitba chants, etc.

To be fair, white folk have had it tighter at the football for ages. :greengrin

Seriously though, while I take your point, and I'm not dismissing the points you make, but this song isn't about black people. It's about Larry Kingston. He's not there as a representative of the blacks who had hundreds of years of oppression.

He's there as a very well paid footballer, representing the Yams. His colour, for me, does not come into it. He should get it as tight as the rest of the Yams.

We shouldn't be scared to sing a song about him because somewhere down the line black people used to be oppressed.

They've been equal in Britain for a very, very long time now in case anyone's missed it. They don't need special treatment anymore, IMHO. In fact, there's laws in place to make sure that they (along with whites, disableds, elderly etc) don't get treated differently.

The song, while not really my cup of tea, is not racist, IMHO.

[Keith_M]

I fear that those Hibs fans who are very, very sensitive to yams' chants about Deano are in danger of falling into the camp of people who define him as a one-eyed person.

Does that, therefore, mean that your concern over the Kingston chants make you a racist?

I mentioned previously on this thread that the perception is that; Kingston is black, therefore any perceived similarity to any black person living or dead who was also blackmust be a racist comment. I find that racist, as it means being black is the only thing being recognised about Kingston by people who state this.

If I call someone an 'Arthur Daley'* character, am I being racist because Arthur Daley was white?


* For those of you too young to know (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Daley)

[lapsedhibee]

Seriously though, while I take your point, and I'm not dismissing the points you make, but this song isn't about black people. It's about Larry Kingston. He's not there as a representative of the blacks who had hundreds of years of oppression.

Think he may be, for some.

[lapsedhibee]

Does that, therefore, mean that your concern over the Kingston chants make you a racist?

I mentioned previously on this thread that the perception is that; Kingston is black, therefore any perceived similarity to any black person living or dead must be a racist comment. I find that racist, as it means being black is the only thing being recognised about Kingston by people who state this.

If I call someone an 'Arthur Daley'* character, am I being racist because Arthur Daley was white?


* For those of you too young to know (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Daley)

Oi! Did you mean to quote someone else? :confused: My only concern with the Kingston chant is that it's brought out far too much finger-wagging. I'm completely happy with the words - and I didn't even know what a looky looky man was before the weekend, so it's been an educational experience too.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Larry Kingston is a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man, a Looky Looky man.

Totally out of order. Makes me cringe that people think this is acceptable.


Oi! Did you mean to quote someone else? :confused: My only concern with the Kingston chant is that it's brought out far too much finger-wagging. I'm completely happy with the words - and I didn't even know what a looky looky man was before the weekend, so it's been an educational experience too.

Why what did you learn?

[bighairyfaeleith]

You know this pc **** is ****ing annoying me, sing whatever you want, if people agree they will singalong, if not you will get ignored and look like a plum.

Personally I love the songs at the game even if some do hit the bone, but so what if deanos only got one eye, so what if Kingston sells watches down the grass market on a Saturday night (makes up for not getting paid), and so what if skacel's legal right to be in the country was called into question. Live and let live I reckon and the pc brigade can **** right off because all they are doing is taking what little character there is left in the game out of it and soon we would all be as well going to watch a jolly game of rugger.

Rant over

Altogether now, rudi skacel is a foreign gentleman, a foreign gentleman, a foreign gentleman

[dublinhfc]

some of the chants and shouts comming from the terracing were disgraceful, one little prick in particular.....

"come oan hibs get intae these dirty black *******s"

when i asked him how many black players were playing for hibs....his response.....

"Aye well they dinnae count" i'm delighted he said that as it prevented me from having to punch a hole in him!!!! as i was p[ishing myself laughing after that......should have just checked him over to the facists in the away end though!!:grr:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

You know absolutely nothing about me (or Liverpool Hibs) so don't make arrogant assumptions. I have spent time in the Middle East, in the South of the US and other places and have probably seen more conflict in a week than you will your whole life.
If one black person chooses not to be offended. that's his right and I respect it. I've no intention of making ill-informed suppositions about him the way you do about anyone who fails to share your interpretation of things.

It annoys me to hear stuff like this because it is coming from the supporters of my football club. I've supported it for nearly 50 years and I hate some of the pig-ignorant garbage which emerges from a small group of meatheads in the stands. Every time an offensive chant is aired, the board is heaving with people wanting to justify it.

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem

What an erse.




Never ceases to amaze me the way you go 100% at anyone on this board who's opinion differs in any way from your own. Always chastising and telling the rest of us how it is, or should be. What a case study you would make....

I've read enough of your posts (which is time I'll never get back) to realise what a boorish, antagonistic blowbag you are.

Never felt complelled to put another poster on "ignore" until now. Congratulations, you're the first.

[marinello59]

You know this pc **** is ****ing annoying me, sing whatever you want, if people agree they will singalong, if not you will get ignored and look like a plum.

Personally I love the songs at the game even if some do hit the bone, but so what if deanos only got one eye, so what if Kingston sells watches down the grass market on a Saturday night (makes up for not getting paid), and so what if skacel's legal right to be in the country was called into question. Live and let live I reckon and the pc brigade can **** right off because all they are doing is taking what little character there is left in the game out of it and soon we would all be as well going to watch a jolly game of rugger.

Rant over

Altogether now, rudi skacel is a foreign gentleman, a foreign gentleman, a foreign gentleman

Bit of a contradiction there surely?:greengrin
As an aside, what's the opposite of politically correct then?:confused:

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Does this mean the cheer up Jimmy Jeffries song is deemed Racist towards fat people???? because its the same as calling pineapple heid a looky looky man,
Also someone pointed out on yet another Racism thread that the words Chinky and Paki are classed Racist ....yet we get called Scots and have no qualms about it....:confused:

[marinello59]

Does this mean the cheer up Jimmy Jeffries song is deemed Racist towards fat people???? because its the same as calling pineapple heid a looky looky man,
Also someone pointed out on yet another Racism thread that the words Chinky and Paki are classed Racist ....yet we get called Scots and have no qualms about it....:confused:

I would disagree with your first statement, there is a vast difference between singing a song about a rather rotund ex-jambo and throwing racial stereotypes about.
As for your second statement, how about if you were routinely called Jockstrap?
I know my Dad would have major issues with being called Scots. Mind you, he is English.:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

Bit of a contradiction there surely?:greengrin
As an aside, what's the opposite of politically correct then?:confused:

Oi I said live and let live and you try and pick a whole in my post :wink:

You are right though :whistle:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Agreed.

To make comparisons with scousers and weegies is plain wrong. To my knowledge they have never been the victims of institutionalised racism which used to take the form of slavery and wholesale murder with impunity. Which now still exist in the through higher percentages police stop and searches (fact) and lower job prospects (fact) amongst other day to day predudices that black people face.
The song isn't 'slavering at the mouth racism' but is designed to re-enforce stereotypes. Do we look at people with dreadlocks and sing 'Larry Kingston is surgeon, lawyer' etc? No we dont he is, according to some, a looky looky man!
This is encouraging stereotypes in the same way that 'going to the paki's' (shop) and having a 'chinky' (chinese food) demean these people to being identified and associated with a 'role' in life and for them to be thought of outside that role as 'wrong' or 'unusual'.
This song can only help to entrench the pigeonholing of certain people which can only lead to further ignorance, intorelarance and ultimately racism, even if some may attempt to argue that the song intself is not racist.
Bin the song.



Lightem up man - i didnt, and probably wouldnt have joined in with the chant, as others say its pretty rubbish (is it just me, or is the standard of hibs chant at the moment as bad as i have ever known it...)

But to start dragging slavery and the like into it is, IMHO, deliberately ratcheting up the emotional stakes

Nobody was chanting 'how was the amistad' or 'get back to your plantation' at the guy - yes it is a stereo-type, and possibly even a childish one, but to bring slavery into it is just stupid, and i reckon trivilises the real horror of slavery.

Kingston is black, and all looky-looky men are black (that i have ever seen) - and there is a resemblance in style, and it is an annoying and derogatory profession - as i say, perhaps not the best taste, but slavery it is not.

Have to admit i have found this thread very funny

I am obviously a bad person.

Looky-looky men of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your gold bling chains (two for a fiver)

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem


Nothing like a black or white view of things eh

very resonable

[Speedy]

Nothing like a black or white view of things eh

very resonable

You saying black and white people can't see things the same? :greengrin:duck:

[sadtom]

Lightem up man - i didnt, and probably wouldnt have joined in with the chant, as others say its pretty rubbish (is it just me, or is the standard of hibs chant at the moment as bad as i have ever known it...)

But to start dragging slavery and the like into it is, IMHO, deliberately ratcheting up the emotional stakes

Nobody was chanting 'how was the amistad' or 'get back to your plantation' at the guy - yes it is a stereo-type, and possibly even a childish one, but to bring slavery into it is just stupid, and i reckon trivilises the real horror of slavery.

Kingston is black, and all looky-looky men are black (that i have ever seen) - and there is a resemblance in style, and it is an annoying and derogatory profession - as i say, perhaps not the best taste, but slavery it is not.

Have to admit i have found this thread very funny

I am obviously a bad person.

Looky-looky men of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your gold bling chains (two for a fiver)

The vast (and disproportionate) majority of paedophiles and serial killers are white, so you'd be ok with that stereotype that all whites are serial killers and kiddie fiddlers?
Either you are not to bright or you should read the post again. My 'inclusion' of slavery etc was not to compare slavery with the song but to point out that being fat, or bald, or from Glasgow or any of the other ridiculous comparasons that some have given, do not hold up to comparison with slagging black men because of their appearance because none of these 'sub groups' have faced centuries of systematic victimisation, abuse and discrimiation (which still goes on).

As for these remarks about PC, it seems some folk miss being allowed To be offensive.
This notion that PC is somehow to blame for the ills of society is a charter for ******s.
The beginning of anti PC stace was started by the murdoch press, and was founded on complete lies in order to undermine the GLC and lambeth and islington councils (IIRC).
I remember the scene when Alan Partridge was informed that he couldn't have a barbeque on the garage forecourt he exclaimed 'its political correctness gone mad.' That just about sums it up for me.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

how about if you were routinely called Jockstrap?
I know my Dad would have major issues with being called Scots. Mind you, he is English.:greengrin[/QUOTE]

you know my wife then:greengrin

[HibbyScott]

Lightem up man - i didnt, and probably wouldnt have joined in with the chant, as others say its pretty rubbish (is it just me, or is the standard of hibs chant at the moment as bad as i have ever known it...)

But to start dragging slavery and the like into it is, IMHO, deliberately ratcheting up the emotional stakes

Nobody was chanting 'how was the amistad' or 'get back to your plantation' at the guy - yes it is a stereo-type, and possibly even a childish one, but to bring slavery into it is just stupid, and i reckon trivilises the real horror of slavery.

Kingston is black, and all looky-looky men are black (that i have ever seen) - and there is a resemblance in style, and it is an annoying and derogatory profession - as i say, perhaps not the best taste, but slavery it is not.

Have to admit i have found this thread very funny

I am obviously a bad person.

Looky-looky men of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your gold bling chains (two for a fiver)

If I've bought something off a white looky looky man before, 2 Eiffel Tower Keyrings for 1Euro (bargain) does that clear up whether the looky looky song is racist...or does it complicate matters further? :greengrin

[EH6 Hibby]

The vast (and disproportionate) majority of paedophiles and serial killers are white, so you'd be ok with that stereotype that all whites are serial killers and kiddie fiddlers?
Either you are not to bright or you should read the post again. My 'inclusion' of slavery etc was not to compare slavery with the song but to point out that being fat, or bald, or from Glasgow or any of the other ridiculous comparasons that some have given, do not hold up to comparison with slagging black men because of their appearance because none of these 'sub groups' have faced centuries of systematic victimisation, abuse and discrimiation (which still goes on).

As for these remarks about PC, it seems some folk miss being allowed To be offensive.
This notion that PC is somehow to blame for the ills of society is a charter for ******s.
The beginning of anti PC stace was started by the murdoch press, and was founded on complete lies in order to undermine the GLC and lambeth and islington councils (IIRC).
I remember the scene when Alan Partridge was informed that he couldn't have a barbeque on the garage forecourt he exclaimed 'its political correctness gone mad.' That just about sums it up for me.

Deary me, it must be a right laugh round your hoose! :duck:

[son of haggart]

If I've bought something off a white looky looky man before, 2 Eiffel Tower Keyrings for 1Euro (bargain) does that clear up whether the looky looky song is racist...or does it complicate matters further? :greengrin

No

It just tells us white guys can't do looky looky

:wink:

[HibbyScott]

No

It just tells us white guys can't do looky looky

:wink:

He tried his best...even told my friend that she looked like Miss Scotland to try and convince her to buy something :greengrin

[GREEN BRAZIL]

The vast (and disproportionate) majority of paedophiles and serial killers are white, so you'd be ok with that stereotype that all whites are serial killers and kiddie fiddlers?
Either you are not to bright or you should read the post again. My 'inclusion' of slavery etc was not to compare slavery with the song but to point out that being fat, or bald, or from Glasgow or any of the other ridiculous comparasons that some have given, do not hold up to comparison with slagging black men because of their appearance because none of these 'sub groups' have faced centuries of systematic victimisation, abuse and discrimiation (which still goes on).

As for these remarks about PC, it seems some folk miss being allowed To be offensive.
This notion that PC is somehow to blame for the ills of society is a charter for ******s.
The beginning of anti PC stace was started by the murdoch press, and was founded on complete lies in order to undermine the GLC and lambeth and islington councils (IIRC).
I remember the scene when Alan Partridge was informed that he couldn't have a barbeque on the garage forecourt he exclaimed 'its political correctness gone mad.' That just about sums it up for me.


:rules:

[bighairyfaeleith]

The vast (and disproportionate) majority of paedophiles and serial killers are white, so you'd be ok with that stereotype that all whites are serial killers and kiddie fiddlers?
Either you are not to bright or you should read the post again. My 'inclusion' of slavery etc was not to compare slavery with the song but to point out that being fat, or bald, or from Glasgow or any of the other ridiculous comparasons that some have given, do not hold up to comparison with slagging black men because of their appearance because none of these 'sub groups' have faced centuries of systematic victimisation, abuse and discrimiation (which still goes on).

As for these remarks about PC, it seems some folk miss being allowed To be offensive.
This notion that PC is somehow to blame for the ills of society is a charter for ******s.
The beginning of anti PC stace was started by the murdoch press, and was founded on complete lies in order to undermine the GLC and lambeth and islington councils (IIRC).
I remember the scene when Alan Partridge was informed that he couldn't have a barbeque on the garage forecourt he exclaimed 'its political correctness gone mad.' That just about sums it up for me.

So we just tip toe round anyone who is not a white hibs fab then?

Sorry but are you just being an arse for the sake of it?

Just because people find something funny that you don't doesnt make them racists!

Just because black people suffered through slavery means they can never have fun poked at them as individuals? Because this is being poked at the individual and not black people as a race. Scottish people have suffered for hundreds of years at the hands of the english, but I don't call english people racist when I have some friendly banter with them.

You are seriously deluded if you think that the eddie murphy song or the kingston song are racist.

It's a song at a player, the same way we sing at lots of other players whether they are black, white or maroon, it doesnae matter, it's just a bit of fun that hopefully puts the player of his game that day.

But hold on, that players black so we should give him special treatment, but why again??????????

Personally I think excluding players from getting the same sort of treatment as every other player suffers is racism.

But hey what do I know I am just a thick racist hobo peg seller!

[The Voice Of Reason]

I never heard this last night but apparently Macar said this on Talk107 last night. Gary Mackay was really offended by it and slated him for it.
Did anyone hear this and if so did anyone phone in after Macar and mention the words Kevin Harper to him?

Just picked up on this post, missed it previously.

You make a great point.....Mackay is not in a position to slate anyone on this subject, given the Kevin Harper incident :grr:

[lacostelad]

Seems a really storm in a tea cup, all of this.

The guy that started the thread should just run it as a poll.

;)

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

The Fulton song is funny.

The Jimmy Hill song isn't, it's homophobic (cue apologism and accusations of 'political correctness gone mad').

The Kingston song is racist.

Simple as, and I'm embarrassed as **** that it caught on despite people snubbing the Skacel song when that was sung by a few ****-wits

What a nasty, heartless pr1ck you are! So it is ok to abuse Stevie Fulton throughout his life for being ugly? Can you imagine the abuse he suffered at school? Would you have been the type to join in the playground destruction of this sensitive individual? Have you degraded a fellow human being on the basis of his physical appearance? Perhaps he was overweight ??????
can you imagine the torment he endured? can you imagine the self loathing he felt? "Mummy, why do they hate me for the way I look?"

How can you defend this polarised, simplistic view on life? If ugly people were a race would you mount your white charger again? Would you afford them the same rightfull indignation?
you make me sick.

[Crossgates Hibs]

:tee hee::tee hee:
What a nasty, heartless pr1ck you are! So it is ok to abuse Stevie Fulton throughout his life for being ugly? Can you imagine the abuse he suffered at school? Would you have been the type to join in the playground destruction of this sensitive individual? Have you degraded a fellow human being on the basis of his physical appearance? Perhaps he was overweight ??????
can you imagine the torment he endured? can you imagine the self loathing he felt? "Mummy, why do they hate me for the way I look?"

How can you defend this polarised, simplistic view on life? If ugly people were a race would you mount your white charger again? Would you afford them the same rightfull indignation?
you make me sick.


:LOL:

[LaMotta]

What a nasty, heartless pr1ck you are! So it is ok to abuse Stevie Fulton throughout his life for being ugly? Can you imagine the abuse he suffered at school? Would you have been the type to join in the playground destruction of this sensitive individual? Have you degraded a fellow human being on the basis of his physical appearance? Perhaps he was overweight ??????
can you imagine the torment he endured? can you imagine the self loathing he felt? "Mummy, why do they hate me for the way I look?"

How can you defend this polarised, simplistic view on life? If ugly people were a race would you mount your white charger again? Would you afford them the same rightfull indignation?
you make me sick.

:top marks

[sadtom]

So we just tip toe round anyone who is not a white hibs fab then?

Sorry but are you just being an arse for the sake of it?

Just because people find something funny that you don't doesnt make them racists!

Just because black people suffered through slavery means they can never have fun poked at them as individuals? Because this is being poked at the individual and not black people as a race. Scottish people have suffered for hundreds of years at the hands of the english, but I don't call english people racist when I have some friendly banter with them.

You are seriously deluded if you think that the eddie murphy song or the kingston song are racist.

It's a song at a player, the same way we sing at lots of other players whether they are black, white or maroon, it doesnae matter, it's just a bit of fun that hopefully puts the player of his game that day.

But hold on, that players black so we should give him special treatment, but why again??????????

Personally I think excluding players from getting the same sort of treatment as every other player suffers is racism.

But hey what do I know I am just a thick racist hobo peg seller!

I know who the ar$e's are.

I have no problem with giving the opposition abuse but unlike some i'll not make the colour of their skin the focus of it. Why cant kingston just be a hertz *****er?
Why wasn't John Hartson a 'fat Ewan McGregor'? Because he looks ***** all like him! Guess what, Nade looks ***** all like Eddie Murphy.
I'm not for a minute suggesting that even the majority had a racist objective when the were singing the looky looky song. But just as i said in my first post on the subject ,when i agreed with a point that suggested these songs could allow for similar dodgy songs by people who do support a racist agenda and that these type of songs might afford them that opportunity.
Again for those that continue to attempt to make connections with the experience of being black in the uk and being fat, bald, ugly etc, then you are being extremely dim. Can i point out that black people can be all those things too. If we want to slag them about personal traits then fine crack on. Everyone and anyone can be bald, fat, ugly, so however insensitve, at least we are on an even playing field. The songs in question are different, they are not specific to the individual they are generic.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I know who the ar$e's are.

I have no problem with giving the opposition abuse but unlike some i'll not make the colour of their skin the focus of it. Why cant kingston just be a hertz *****er?
Why wasn't John Hartson a 'fat Ewan McGregor'? Because he looks ***** all like him! Guess what, Nade looks ***** all like Eddie Murphy.
I'm not for a minute suggesting that even the majority had a racist objective when the were singing the looky looky song. But just as i said in my first post on the subject ,when i agreed with a point that suggested these songs could allow for similar dodgy songs by people who do support a racist agenda and that these type of songs might afford them that opportunity.
Again for those that continue to attempt to make connections with the experience of being black in the uk and being fat, bald, ugly etc, then you are being extremely dim. Can i point out that black people can be all those things too.If we want to slag them about personal traits then fine crack on. Everyone and anyone can be bald, fat, ugly, so however insensitve, at least we are on an even playing field. The songs in question are different, they are not specific to the individual they are generic.

Not really thought this through have we.

Who decides who is is ugly? is it a generic agreed standard?
Who decides who is fat?

You state that anyone who is fat/ugly can be derided on the basis that they are fat/ugly. Does an ugly person have any autonomy over their appearance that a coloured person has? I feel your indignation is fatally flawed when you refuse to consider ALL the oppressed factions of our society. How can you seek to defend some and debase others?

[sadtom]

Not really thought this through have we.

Who decides who is is ugly? is it a generic agreed standard?
Who decides who is fat?

You state that anyone who is fat/ugly can be derided on the basis that they are fat/ugly. Does an ugly person have any autonomy over their appearance that a coloured person has? I feel your indignation is fatally flawed when you refuse to consider ALL the oppressed factions of our society. How can you seek to defend some and debase others?

***** sake! I give up. Its like trying to show card tricks to a dug.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I hate people.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

***** sake! I give up. Its like trying to show card tricks to a dug.


Dont you feel at least a little dissapointed in yourself?


Yours is the same kind of self indignant Citizen Smith p1sh I used to be guilty of spouting before I grew up. Consider all sides of an arguement before you try to impose your limited views on others.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I hate people.

I hate intolerance.

[andrew_dundee]

i hate threads like this

simply put there is no excuse for singning racist songs as a football match. the people who find that sort of thing acceptable tend to be straight white men who are unlikely to ever become an abused minority. i dont understand why it is so hard to go 90 minutes without saying something racist? do you have no self control or rather are you just plain thick?

i am proud to support a team who have none of the sectarian nonsense which goes with the OF and 90% of the time i am proud to be part of a vocal support but why is that every so often we have to collectively shoot ourselves in the foot and ruin the good name of HFC by singing some form of drivel like the Skacel song? there is simply no excuse and those people who do it should feel ashamed.

the skacel song was a good example: what was the desired outcome? all that happened was we got bad press, our support were condemned by the newspapers and analysts and the Jambo's got to play a moral highground card... in exchange all we did was let ourselves as a group be let down by some knuckle dragging morons who would be more welcome with the OF.

How can we critisise Of fans who sing about asian players eating dogs and african players peeling bannanas with their feet and think it's ok for us to sing equally ****ing stupid things.

and whoever posted that utterly absurd comment about 'Scot' being the equivilant of 'paki' or 'chinky' should really think for a minute. the difference, for anyone too stupid to figure it out, is that paki and chinky are derogatory terms which are used to degrade people, if ever Scot is used as a common insult or a term of widespread abuse then you would probably have a point... on the other hand the people on the receiving end of the crude terms you have thrown aroundmight have a different feeling about it.

[Storar]

i hate threads like this

simply put there is no excuse for singning racist songs as a football match. the people who find that sort of thing acceptable tend to be straight white men who are unlikely to ever become an abused minority. i dont understand why it is so hard to go 90 minutes without saying something racist? do you have no self control or rather are you just plain thick?

i am proud to support a team who have none of the sectarian nonsense which goes with the OF and 90% of the time i am proud to be part of a vocal support but why is that every so often we have to collectively shoot ourselves in the foot and ruin the good name of HFC by singing some form of drivel like the Skacel song? there is simply no excuse and those people who do it should feel ashamed.

the skacel song was a good example: what was the desired outcome? all that happened was we got bad press, our support were condemned by the newspapers and analysts and the Jambo's got to play a moral highground card... in exchange all we did was let ourselves as a group be let down by some knuckle dragging morons who would be more welcome with the OF.

How can we critisise Of fans who sing about asian players eating dogs and african players peeling bannanas with their feet and think it's ok for us to sing equally ****ing stupid things.

and whoever posted that utterly absurd comment about 'Scot' being the equivilant of 'paki' or 'chinky' should really think for a minute. the difference, for anyone too stupid to figure it out, is that paki and chinky are derogatory terms which are used to degrade people, if ever Scot is used as a common insult or a term of widespread abuse then you would probably have a point... on the other hand the people on the receiving end of the crude terms you have thrown aroundmight have a different feeling about it.
You, along with a few others, have missed the point entirely.

Not one person is making excuses for singing racist songs. Not one person is condoning singing racist songs.

The debate isn't whether or not it is ok to sing racist songs. The debate is whether or not the song in question is racist at all.

The sooner people begin to learn the difference between the two the better.

[andrew_dundee]

You, along with a few others, have missed the point entirely.

Not one person is making excuses for singing racist songs. Not one person is condoning singing racist songs.

The debate isn't whether or not it is ok to sing racist songs. The debate is whether or not the song in question is racist at all.

The sooner people begin to learn the difference between the two the better.

having said this through reading my post you must also have noticed that i made no reference to the Kingston song :wink: the main one i picked up on was the Skacel one and i was commenting on the general issues of this thread

[Big90inOz]

Boy am I glad I live in Oz

Here we can still play the Paki's at cricket, we have wogs and dings who are proud to be wogs and dings

Why is Paki derogatory ? Is a Paki not someone from Pakistan ?
Chinky..... someone from China
Pom,,,,,,,,,,,,, someone from England
Yank............. American
Ruski..........Russia
Paddy's..........Ireland
Jocks......... Scotland
Frog........French


There are loads of abreviations for people from certain countries, why is it always a problem for those with darker skins than others ? Or is the problem in certain individuals heads ?

[Steve-O]

It's not the chants so much as the double standards. As long as our guys do it, it's OK. We'll have threads full of righteous indignation about the Famine Song and the merricks singing about Deano's one eye, but we'll all pile on and tie ourself in logical knots justifying offensive singing from our end.

"If you can't beat them, join them" is a pathetic response to offensive chants from visiting fans. But excuse me for detracting from the "all lads together, just a bit of banter" tone favoured by most on here.

I see your point in some ways.

You could look at it as the one eye song being about someone's misfortune, and the the fact he is disabled because of that, that it's wrong.

You could look at the famine song and say it's wrong because the famine affected however many people, many of whom died etc, and say that's wrong.

But a song about someone looking like someone who has a particular job? Can't see the comparison really in this instance.

Personally speaking, I could not care less about either the one eye song, or the famine song, so you're really asking the wrong person as I do not engage in the threads about how offensive / bad / vile / shocking certain songs are as I am personally not offended by any of them really.

For the record, I do cringe in embarrassment when I hear monkey chants being made, and the Edinburgh song as well as any "ya black _______" type shouts, so I am not completely without morals! :greengrin

[Steve-O]

How can we critisise Of fans who sing about asian players eating dogs and african players peeling bannanas with their feet and think it's ok for us to sing equally ****ing stupid things.

.


Isn't it true that some Asians do eat dog though? So I don't see how that's anything more than a stereotype, similar to the one that we all eat Haggis and wear kilts!

No excuse for the other one however.

[rainman]

Isn't it true that some Asians do eat dog though? So I don't see how that's anything more than a stereotype, similar to the one that we all eat Haggis and wear kilts!

No excuse for the other one however.

:agree:

Was offered Dog soup in Korea. Gave me the dry boak so i politely declined.

Too many precious wee lambs bleeting about possibly hurting people's feelings.

Man up.

[RIP]

I've read through 200 posts of noble rhetoric without noting what I think is the most worrying point.

At Hibs we have our own racist BNP element. They don't appear very often but they are well organised. They start songs like 'The Looky Looky man' 'Kingston's Brown' and 'Edinburgh is Beautiful' at the big games and Derbies

A few of them are more active at the moment because of the Granton election. They have been very active on the Scotsman site recently. Watch out for more of this infiltration over the next few weeks.

Keep your wits about you on the terracing chaps

[bighairyfaeleith]

i hate threads like this

simply put there is no excuse for singning racist songs as a football match. the people who find that sort of thing acceptable tend to be straight white men who are unlikely to ever become an abused minority. i dont understand why it is so hard to go 90 minutes without saying something racist? do you have no self control or rather are you just plain thick?

i am proud to support a team who have none of the sectarian nonsense which goes with the OF and 90% of the time i am proud to be part of a vocal support but why is that every so often we have to collectively shoot ourselves in the foot and ruin the good name of HFC by singing some form of drivel like the Skacel song? there is simply no excuse and those people who do it should feel ashamed.

the skacel song was a good example: what was the desired outcome? all that happened was we got bad press, our support were condemned by the newspapers and analysts and the Jambo's got to play a moral highground card... in exchange all we did was let ourselves as a group be let down by some knuckle dragging morons who would be more welcome with the OF.

How can we critisise Of fans who sing about asian players eating dogs and african players peeling bannanas with their feet and think it's ok for us to sing equally ****ing stupid things.

and whoever posted that utterly absurd comment about 'Scot' being the equivilant of 'paki' or 'chinky' should really think for a minute. the difference, for anyone too stupid to figure it out, is that paki and chinky are derogatory terms which are used to degrade people, if ever Scot is used as a common insult or a term of widespread abuse then you would probably have a point... on the other hand the people on the receiving end of the crude terms you have thrown aroundmight have a different feeling about it.

Sorry but saying something like "dirty paki bstard" is racist, the word paki is not actually racist, it is just a shortened name for people who come from that country. Some people in the UK think that because our ancestors treated people badly in other parts of the world in the past that we have to now speak in some strange fashion which will never offend anyone, until someone else chanegs the rules and makes those words offensive.

So what am i trying to say, well "Rudi Skacel is ****ing refugee" is quite racist, but the people that sung it, and I think I sung it at the start as well realised and stopped and where not actually racists as such.

The kingston and eddie murphy songs however are not racist and just funny to some and not to others, so if people want to sing them then leave them be, if you don't like it don't join in.

General racist comments made about players like "ya black bstard" are racist and nobody on here condones them, but they are also few and far between at the games I go to and I sit right in the middle of the east where you would think you would hear it most?

So lets not blow things out of proportion here and remember that we are just peg selling caravan living hobos who should not dare to criticise anyone in a stereotypical fashion.

[lapsedhibee]

and whoever posted that utterly absurd comment about 'Scot' being the equivilant of 'paki' or 'chinky' should really think for a minute. the difference, for anyone too stupid to figure it out, is that paki and chinky are derogatory terms which are used to degrade people, if ever Scot is used as a common insult or a term of widespread abuse then you would probably have a point... on the other hand the people on the receiving end of the crude terms you have thrown aroundmight have a different feeling about it.

I think the expression 'to get off Scot free' is pejorative, implying as it does that Scots as a race are fugitives from justice, do not face up to their responsibilities/medicine/punishment, etc etc etc. Could you write to someone and get this banned for me please? :dunno:

[Brizo]

I've read through 200 posts of noble rhetoric without noting what I think is the most worrying point.

At Hibs we have our own racist BNP element. They don't appear very often but they are well organised. They start songs like 'The Looky Looky man' 'Kingston's Brown' and 'Edinburgh is Beautiful' at the big games and Derbies

A few of them are more active at the moment because of the Granton election. They have been very active on the Scotsman site recently. Watch out for more of this infiltration over the next few weeks.

Keep your wits about you on the terracing chaps

That surprises and worries me. I had put the song in question down as just another example of the Easts increasingly puerile "banter" - off the cuff infantile primary school p@sh rather than part of some deliberately planned repertoire with a political agenda.

Without putting you too much on the spot can you expand on what kind of evidence you have you that theres some kind of organised agenda behind the more dubious terracing chants you mention above.

[Woody1985]

It is all about context, imo, and the nature in which something is said. These days, we have too many peeps just LOOKING for a reason to be offended.

Does that make them Looky Looky men?!:wink:

[Woody1985]

The vast (and disproportionate) majority of paedophiles and serial killers are white, so you'd be ok with that stereotype that all whites are serial killers and kiddie fiddlers?

WTF!!!

It was a **** joke, a bit of fun, a laugh. I think Sadtom suits you nicely.

A point another guy made earlier, a guy was calling them black barstewards and when he said that Hibs players are black the guy said they don't count. If he was a true racist he'd have been saying they can fk off aswell. It's a bit of banter, although maybe not in the best taste.

People like you should fk off to the middle east and ask them how they see your views that everyone is equal and how we should all be nice to each other. Don't think you'd be posting on here again.

[capitals_finest]

I've read through 200 posts of noble rhetoric without noting what I think is the most worrying point.

At Hibs we have our own racist BNP element. They don't appear very often but they are well organised. They start songs like 'The Looky Looky man' 'Kingston's Brown' and 'Edinburgh is Beautiful' at the big games and Derbies

A few of them are more active at the moment because of the Granton election. They have been very active on the Scotsman site recently. Watch out for more of this infiltration over the next few weeks.

Keep your wits about you on the terracing chaps

I wouldn't worry that shower would never be welcome in the terracing.

[khib70]

What an erse.




Never ceases to amaze me the way you go 100% at anyone on this board who's opinion differs in any way from your own. Always chastising and telling the rest of us how it is, or should be. What a case study you would make....

I've read enough of your posts (which is time I'll never get back) to realise what a boorish, antagonistic blowbag you are.

Never felt complelled to put another poster on "ignore" until now. Congratulations, you're the first.
I see. I respond to an ignorant, abusive post from yourself and get a stream of abuse in return. No attempt to actually adress any of the issues - just a big advert for what a keyboard hardman you are. Dry out behind the ears before you start shouting the odds.

It would be a great privilege to be ignored by you:bye:

[Keith_M]

Seems a really storm in a tea cup, all of this.

The guy that started the thread should just run it as a poll.

;)

Ahhhh, you have a problem with the Pollish now?

:greengrin

[Greentinted]

I think the expression 'to get off Scot free' is pejorative, implying as it does that Scots as a race are fugitives from justice, do not face up to their responsibilities/medicine/punishment, etc etc etc. Could you write to someone and get this banned for me please? :dunno:

Nothing to do with being Scottish, may be deemed taxist in certain quarters though!:greengrin


http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sco1.htm

[lapsedhibee]

Nothing to do with being Scottish, may be deemed taxist in certain quarters though!:greengrin


http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sco1.htm

Origin nothing to do with Scots of course, but the first line of your link proves the point that it is perceived as being something to do with Scots. Hence, racist. Only pig ignorant racist **** would use such an expression.

[The_Todd]

I've read through 200 posts of noble rhetoric without noting what I think is the most worrying point.

At Hibs we have our own racist BNP element. They don't appear very often but they are well organised. They start songs like 'The Looky Looky man' 'Kingston's Brown' and 'Edinburgh is Beautiful' at the big games and Derbies

A few of them are more active at the moment because of the Granton election. They have been very active on the Scotsman site recently. Watch out for more of this infiltration over the next few weeks.

Keep your wits about you on the terracing chaps

I sit in the East Terracing, right at the south end - that's where all the noise comes from. The only games I've missed this season are Motherwell and Morton. I've not once heard "Edinburgh is Wonderful" this season. I don't know about last season, I didn't make many games but in the matches I went to it never reared its ugly head.

Call me naive, but I'm pretty sure the East Stand isn't being used by the BNP - otherwise why would be celebrating Ma-Kalambay and Bamba with songs of their own?

Is it streching the imagination too much to think the only reason Kingston got abuse was because he plays for Hearts, no matter how misguided the song was?

[SRHibs]

Boy am I glad I live in Oz

Here we can still play the Paki's at cricket, we have wogs and dings who are proud to be wogs and dings

Why is Paki derogatory ? Is a Paki not someone from Pakistan ?
Chinky..... someone from China
Pom,,,,,,,,,,,,, someone from England
Yank............. American
Ruski..........Russia
Paddy's..........Ireland
Jocks......... Scotland
Frog........French


There are loads of abreviations for people from certain countries, why is it always a problem for those with darker skins than others ? Or is the problem in certain individuals heads ?

Maybe because Scot isn't used as a generalisation for all white people, unlike the terms Paki and Chinky.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe because Scot isn't used as a generalisation for all white people, unlike the terms Paki and Chinky.

Scot is used in the same way towards Scottish people as Paki and Chinky is used towards people from Pakistan or China.

[EH6 Hibby]

I sit in the East Terracing, right at the south end - that's where all the noise comes from. The only games I've missed this season are Motherwell and Morton. I've not once heard "Edinburgh is Wonderful" this season. I don't know about last season, I didn't make many games but in the matches I went to it never reared its ugly head.

Call me naive, but I'm pretty sure the East Stand isn't being used by the BNP - otherwise why would be celebrating Ma-Kalambay and Bamba with songs of their own?

Is it streching the imagination too much to think the only reason Kingston got abuse was because he plays for Hearts, no matter how misguided the song was?

Have to agree with you, I've sat/stood around the same area as you for every game that's not a sell out for the past 4 years and I have never once heard the Edinburgh is Wonderful song, my season ticket seat is just around the half way line and I've never heard it sung there either although I do only sit there when the game is a sell out! :confused:

[Ringothedog]

Why dont we just get back to singing the "soldiers song", we're all of to dublin in the green", "there was a soldier". My point is that we are looking too much into what we chant at games. When you have 15000 congregating they will be of all different political and religious persuasions. What one person thinks is wrong whether it be rascist or religious,the other person thinks is right. I have been to tynecastle,ibrox and parkhead and been called a "fenian" or an "orange" bassa. Do i take offence....no. This being PC at football games is nonsense!! I am waiting for the day that i will not be allowed to chant "Hibernian" as it will be deemed to be shouting for Ireland :wink:

[Beefster]

Scot is used in the same way towards Scottish people as Paki and Chinky is used towards people from Pakistan or China.

If you truly think that, you better get updating Wikipedia. They seem to have missed 'Scot' out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur

[Speedy]

WTF!!!

It was a **** joke, a bit of fun, a laugh. I think Sadtom suits you nicely.

A point another guy made earlier, a guy was calling them black barstewards and when he said that Hibs players are black the guy said they don't count. If he was a true racist he'd have been saying they can fk off aswell. It's a bit of banter, although maybe not in the best taste.

People like you should fk off to the middle east and ask them how they see your views that everyone is equal and how we should all be nice to each other. Don't think you'd be posting on here again.

:bye:

[Woody1985]

If you truly think that, you better get updating Wikipedia. They seem to have missed 'Scot' out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_slur

:LOL: A bible for the anti PC / racist. :LOL:

There's a comment in the thread somewhere that mentions the single white hetro males are generally the ones being anti PC/ racist because we are not in the minority and find it acceptable. I think people will find that we will be in the minority if this PC BS keeps growing.

I read some BS that a council down south had asked companies to stop referring to Brainstorming (coming up with idea's in a group if you don't know:LOL:) as it may offend people with mental illness. WTF!!! where the fk do these people come from? Oh, they're now called thought showers! :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: :rotflmao::rotflmao:

And why is it when a black guy on TV calls white people Honkey's that no one is outraged?!? Think Dennis Rodman on BB (I know it's sht but he was funny).

[Woody1985]

:bye:

You should join Sadtom.

People say things that they don't mean to wind people up. As I say, not in the best taste but that's people for you.

[lapsedhibee]

why is it when a black guy on TV calls white people Honkey's that no one is outraged?!?
I always hear 'honky' as the equal and opposite to 'brother', rather than to 'looky looky man'.

[Woody1985]

I always hear 'honky' as the equal and opposite to 'brother', rather than to 'looky looky man'.

Well why does it state on Wiki that it's an offensive term for a white man? Wiki is created by the people who use it....

In all instances when I've heard it it's always been derogetory. I don't really give a sht what someone calls me tbh.

[The_Todd]

Well why does it state on Wiki that it's an offensive term for a white man? Wiki is created by the people who use it....

In all instances when I've heard it it's always been derogetory. I don't really give a sht what someone calls me tbh.


Wiki is great for looking things up quickly, but it's not the worlds most reliable source.

I could log on to Wikipedia, and edit the Hibs page to say we won the SPL the last 5 years in a row if I wanted to. Doesn't make it true, sadly.

[TariqE]

I don't really give a sht what someone calls me tbh.

That's probably just as well...........

[Woody1985]

Wiki is great for looking things up quickly, but it's not the worlds most reliable source.

I could log on to Wikipedia, and edit the Hibs page to say we won the SPL the last 5 years in a row if I wanted to. Doesn't make it true, sadly.

I'm sure you can. However, I sure that the entry for Honky wasn't only created by one person. It takes a lot of people to have a general concensus on it. Unless it was a bunch of white racist updating it to make it look like we're picked on aswell.

[Woody1985]

That's probably just as well...........

Predictable.......................

[The_Todd]

I'm sure you can. However, I sure that the entry for Honky wasn't only created by one person. It takes a lot of people to have a general concensus on it. Unless it was a bunch of white racist updating it to make it look like we're picked on aswell.

Could have been. Who knows? I'm just pointing out the need for caution when citing Wiki as a source for solid proof of anything.

And incidentally, I've never even heard of this "Honky" term. I must live a sheltered life... :greengrin

[Woody1985]

Could have been. Who knows? I'm just pointing out the need for caution when citing Wiki as a source for solid proof of anything.

And incidentally, I've never even heard of this "Honky" term. I must live a sheltered life... :greengrin

I understand that but when I've heard people say it and the context they're saying it in then you know it's not a nice name for a white person. I actually looked Honky up to see if it was there because I'd heard it before and it confirms what I've heard.

[andrew_dundee]

Scot is used in the same way towards Scottish people as Paki and Chinky is used towards people from Pakistan or China.

the day folk attack me in the street for being a 'Scot' i may reconsider...

[TariqE]

Scot is used in the same way towards Scottish people as Paki and Chinky is used towards people from Pakistan or China.

This is ****.

If you are from Scotland, then you are a Scot just like if you are from Poland, you are a Pole.

Nobody is ever a 'paki' or a 'chinky'. Many people are Pakistanis and many more are Chinese though.

Do you see the difference or are you an idiot? Because it's one or the other.

[Woody1985]

the day folk attack me in the street for being a 'Scot' i may reconsider...

As I said in an earlier post, in some countries you would, just for being a 'Scot'.

[TariqE]

As I said in an earlier post, in some countries you would, just for being a 'Scot'.

For being a Scot in particular?

[Woody1985]

For being a Scot in particular?

Well yes, especially when our flags are flying all over countries elsewhere in the world.

And I'm sure scottish people have been beaten up by English people for just being Scots, especially abroad. Never happened to me but I would place my life it's happened.

[lapsedhibee]

Well yes, especially when our flags are flying all over countries elsewhere in the world.

And I'm sure scottish people have been beaten up by English people for just being Scots, especially abroad. Never happened to me but I would place my life it's happened.

:agree: We are an oppressed minority. Russ Abbot was the worst, with his 'See you Jimmy' sketches and ginger wigs. I for one was incandescent at that.

[GREEN BRAZIL]

It was announced today that, in the spirit of political correctness, the local climate in the UK should no longer be referred to as ‘ British weather.’

In order to avoid offending a sizable portion of the population, it will now be referred to as ‘Muslim weather.’




























































In other words - “partly Sunni but mostly Shi’ite”.

[TariqE]

Well yes, especially when our flags are flying all over countries elsewhere in the world.

And I'm sure scottish people have been beaten up by English people for just being Scots, especially abroad. Never happened to me but I would place my life it's happened.

Why would that happen abroad especially? And I'm just as sure that English people have been beaten up by Scots.

In any case, people have been beaten up by ****bags because of where they're from or where they're perceived to be from. It takes more than a few of these instances to make sustained racial oppression and general societal predjudice. But these instances become far more frequent when there is a general acceptance or rather acquiescence of racial stereotypes and the abuse of them.

[Woody1985]

It was announced today that, in the spirit of political correctness, the local climate in the UK should no longer be referred to as ‘ British weather.’

In order to avoid offending a sizable portion of the population, it will now be referred to as ‘Muslim weather.’

In other words - “partly Sunni but mostly Shi’ite”.

:LOL:

Get your shield now cos the PC brigade are on their way.

[The Voice Of Reason]

:agree: We are an oppressed minority. Russ abbot was the worst, with his 'see you jimmy' sketches and ginger wigs. I for one was incandescent at that.

:lol:

[Woody1985]

Why would that happen abroad especially? And I'm just as sure that English people have been beaten up by Scots.

In any case, people have been beaten up by ****bags because of where they're from or where they're perceived to be from. It takes more than a few of these instances to make sustained racial oppression and general societal predjudice. But these instances become far more frequent when there is a general acceptance or rather acquiescence of racial stereotypes and the abuse of them.

Usually by people who are pashed on holiday or down south for the weekend. I agree that what you've said about Scots on English.

I also agree mostly with your second point. However, PC will not change the world and the world will never be rid of divides. People who continue to try and bend over to every sensitivity of others will be the ones who are walked over first by people who don't like them for the colour of their skin, religion etc by people / religions who are not up to speed with their PCness.

[TariqE]

Usually by people who are pashed on holiday or down south for the weekend. I agree that what you've said about Scots on English.

I also agree mostly with your second point. However, PC will not change the world and the world will never be rid of divides. People who continue to try and bend over to every sensitivity of others will be the ones who are walked over first by people who don't like them for the colour of their skin, religion etc by people / religions who are not up to speed with their PCness.

There is a great deal of difference between not being racist and being overly PC.

[Woody1985]

There is a great deal of difference between not being racist and being overly PC.

There is but there's a hell of an overlap. Apologies if you don't believe in hell.:devil:

[The_Todd]

:LOL:

Get your shield now cos the PC brigade are on their way.


Defind as:



PC Brigade: (Noun) (Abbr. Political Correctness Brigade) (Chiefly British)
A smug, knee-jerk, ill-defined catch-all word that is overused by closet racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots to describe anyone who dares to challenge their hate speech with the values of respect and common human decency.

Antonyms: Users of the word
Many people of the 1930s: "Herr Hitler's such a nice man. All the PC Brigade does is moan about him for no reason."

[Woody1985]

Could have been. Who knows? I'm just pointing out the need for caution when citing Wiki as a source for solid proof of anything.


Is this the same Todd who informed me not to use Wiki as a source??? Using an URBAN DICTIONARY site to show who the users of 'PC brigade' are?

You have made my night :LOL: :rotflmao: :LOL: :rotflmao: :LOL: :rotflmao: :LOL: :rotflmao: :LOL: :rotflmao:

[The_Todd]

Is this the same Todd who informed me not to use Wiki as a source??? Using an URBAN DICTIONARY site to show who the users of 'PC brigade' are?

You have made my night

Glad it tickled you :greengrin

I would be keen to find out who the PC brigade are, where they're based, how much it costs to join and if they have a uniform, mind! :wink:

[son of haggart]

Glad it tickled you :greengrin

I would be keen to find out who the PC brigade are, where they're based, how much it costs to join and if they have a uniform, mind! :wink:

I am a member of the special branch of the PC Brigade

We wear plain clothes


:devil:






(exits, stage left)

[Storar]

This is ****.

If you are from Scotland, then you are a Scot just like if you are from Poland, you are a Pole.

Nobody is ever a 'paki' or a 'chinky'. Many people are Pakistanis and many more are Chinese though.

Do you see the difference or are you an idiot? Because it's one or the other.

:brickwall

That's exactly the false logic that you lot seem to get away with time and time again:brickwall

'either you agree with me or you are wrong'

what a load of pish, get over yourself:bitchy:

[TariqE]

:brickwall

That's exactly the false logic that you lot seem to get away with time and time again:brickwall

'either you agree with me or you are wrong'

what a load of pish, get over yourself:bitchy:

What false logic?

The premise is simple: Scot is not some sort of abbreviation (offensive or otherwise). Paki is some sort of abbreviation (which IMO is offensive but that's not the point I'm making)

Scot does not equal Paki on any level- even on the (inane) level of 'it's just an abbreviation'

The inability to see this is idiotic.

[Steve-O]

the day folk attack me in the street for being a 'Scot' i may reconsider...

You forgotten that 'Scot' from Glasgow who was kidnapped and murdered by Asians a couple of years back in a PROVEN racially-motivated attack?

It works both ways, despite what people seem to think on here.

[Woody1985]

What false logic?

The premise is simple: Scot is not some sort of abbreviation (offensive or otherwise). Paki is some sort of abbreviation (which IMO is offensive but that's not the point I'm making)

Scot does not equal Paki on any level- even on the (inane) level of 'it's just an abbreviation'

The inability to see this is idiotic.

Ever since I was wee I've always said that I'm going to the Paki's or the Chinky's. It's been passed down from generation, since people of those ethnicity came to this country. Yes some people use it to be racist but it can, and is, used as an abbreviation. I used to work in a Chinese and am good mates with a few of whom own/work in the shop! I use it as an abbreviation, not to be racist.

I'm guessing you must have been subjected to some kind of discrimination or feel some kind of injustice for you to keep talking sht like it's the most important thing in the world.

I'm just off to the ethnic minority shop (majority in 50years :wink:) and then for an oriental meal. Goodnight:duck:

P.S on a separate note. Do you not just love this? :jamboak:

[TariqE]

You forgotten that 'Scot' from Glasgow who was kidnapped and murdered by Asians a couple of years back in a PROVEN racially-motivated attack?

It works both ways, despite what people seem to think on here.

Exactly! Racist, murdering scuum got what they deserved (actually maybe they didn't get enough time- throw away the key IMO).

But the levels that entrenched racism can reach should really be telling us all that casual, off-hand racist comments can only serve to increase the likelyhood of a similar thing happening in future. Such things tend to escalate until they reach such horrific levels.

[TariqE]

Ever since I was wee I've always said that I'm going to the Paki's or the Chinky's. It's been passed down from generation, since people of those ethnicity came to this country. Yes some people use it to be racist but it can, and is, used as an abbreviation. I used to work in a Chinese and am good mates with a few of whom own/work in the shop! I use it as an abbreviation, not to be racist.

I'm guessing you must have been subjected to some kind of discrimination or feel some kind of injustice for you to keep talking sht like it's the most important thing in the world.

I'm just off to the ethnic minority shop (majority in 50years :wink:) and then for an oriental meal. Goodnight:duck:

P.S on a separate note. Do you not just love this? :jamboak:

You were mates with Chinkies? You can't possibly cause offence towards chinese people.
Why don't you just got to the shop? (can't get much more abbreviated than that)

I do think that casual (I didn't mean any offense kinda racism) is a bit of a problem because, as you point out, it becomes a social norm and then it can escalate a little further and a little further.......

[Woody1985]

You were mates with Chinkies? You can't possibly cause offence towards chinese people.
Why don't you just got to the shop? (can't get much more abbreviated than that)

I do think that casual (I didn't mean any offense kinda racism) is a bit of a problem because, as you point out, it becomes a social norm and then it can escalate a little further and a little further.......

THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT, TO ME, IT'S AN ABBREVIATION, NOT A SLANG FORM OF RACISM. Rsoles like you make it racism by being a **** pr!ck.

I go down to Newcastle a lot and they always says "here's the jock's". Do I start crying like a little girl? Have you ever been outside or do you live in some kind of bubble where everything is perfect?

If you really give a sht about everyone being nice to each other and having a perfect world why aren't you out helping homeless people or starving people in poor countries? You're more worried about an abbreviation of a countries name and a few Hibs fans signing about Kinston looking like a Looky Looky man (If you can even remember the point of the topic).