New scientific experiment...

[MrRobot]

Anybody read about that scientific experiment where they will put a 17 mile-long machine under the French-Swiss border to get answers about the Universe from billionths of a second after the big bang.

Apperntly people fear the end of the world due to the creation of loads of black holes due to this, which they fear will suck the earth into non-existance.

Anybody tell me a little more about it, and tell me what these black holes actually are ?

Cheers.

[hibby19]

Anybody read about that scientific experiment where they will put a 17 mile-long machine under the French-Swiss border to get answers about the Universe from billionths of a second after the big bang.

Apperntly people fear the end of the world due to the creation of loads of black holes due to this, which they fear will suck the earth into non-existance.

Anybody tell me a little more about it, and tell me what these black holes actually are ?

Cheers.
I don't know much about this but I heard about this from a strange source.
Bill Bailey talked about it in his show :greengrin


From what he said there is quite a big margin for error. Either that it won't work at all or it could create a black hole and suck in the earth.

[SRHibs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LHC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangelet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_holes

There is a possibility of strangelets and stable micro black holes being created. Very unlikely I'd imagine. Don't know a great deal about it though.

[joe_hfc]

isn't a black whole a 'dead' star after its white and red dwarf stages? where its literally a big black whole, sucking in everything into it, including light?

[shamo9]

isn't a black whole a 'dead' star after its white and red dwarf stages? where its literally a big black whole, sucking in everything into it, including light?

The term black hole, which refers to an object so dense that light cannot escape from it, has been used to describe the possible outcome of CERN's experiment. A black hole is composed of a singularity and an event horizon - without getting too technical, the singularity at the center is a point of infinite space time curvature, and the event horizon is the surrounding area where the force of gravity becomes so strong that even light is pulled into it. Once the event horizon is passed essentially nothing can escape the pull.

Also take into account that if a black hole was created, it would be a mini one. A mini black is basically one with a much smaller life span and less chance of expanding.

TBH, nobody knows exactly what will happen just because of the simple fact that it hasn't happened before. You can try and work out all the possible variables but, well, we are only human after all.

The chances of this experiment going tits up and destroying everything is similar to the chances of you getting run over by a bus tomorrow. Highly unlikely, but not necessarily impossible either:wink:

To think we signed Riordan and won't even get to see him play, typical Hibs luck:grr::greengrin

[barcahibs]

When the first nuclear bomb was detonated, some reputable and eminent scientists were seriously concerned that doing so would lead to the planet's atmosphere catching fire or that the chain reaction would never stop and the Earth would be destroyed. They did it anyway. :greengrin

AS far as I know (but I'm no expert!) theres no real danger, the type of collisions they're trying to create at the LHC happen all the time naturally and no Earth munching black hole has ever appeared; this is just the first time people have tried to deliberately create these conditions in order to study them.

If you like this sort of thing check out Five science experiments most likey to destroy the world (http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-world.html) for a more humourous (and probly not work safe!) view

[Ryan91]

The possibilities of us being consumed by a Black Hole are very small, if they do get black holes they will be so tiny that very little will happen. Anyway if everything goes according to plan a guy called Prof Peter Higgs (works in the Physics Department at Edinburgh Uni) could get a Nobel Prize for physics and we could be a whole lot closer to understanding how the universe came into being like it is today.

[Future17]

If you like this sort of thing check out Five science experiments most likey to destroy the world (http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-world.html) for a more humourous (and probly not work safe!) view

That's brilliant.....and slightly scary! :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

When the first nuclear bomb was detonated, some reputable and eminent scientists were seriously concerned that doing so would lead to the planet's atmosphere catching fire or that the chain reaction would never stop and the Earth would be destroyed. They did it anyway. :greengrin

AS far as I know (but I'm no expert!) theres no real danger, the type of collisions they're trying to create at the LHC happen all the time naturally and no Earth munching black hole has ever appeared; this is just the first time people have tried to deliberately create these conditions in order to study them.

If you like this sort of thing check out Five science experiments most likey to destroy the world (http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-world.html) for a more humourous (and probly not work safe!) view

Fortunately Hibs are well prepared for this eventuality

My understanding is that Petrie insisted on East Mains being built within a reverse polarity wormhole (this is where the Whitty money went), thus ensuring that if the CERN accelerator thingy gets out of control and leads to particle flux disintegration, Hibs will weather the storm and come out the other side well-equipped to take advantage of our sensible and prudent 'incremental progression' policy. The lack of any other competitors will also help.

When the man says 'sustainable' he means 'sustainable' :agree:

[HibbyScott]

Fortunately Hibs are well prepared for this eventuality

My understanding is that Petrie insisted on East Mains being built within a reverse polarity wormhole (this is where the Whitty money went), thus ensuring that if the CERN accelerator thingy gets out of control and leads to particle flux disintegration, Hibs will weather the storm and come out the other side well-equipped to take advantage of our sensible and prudent 'incremental progression' policy. The lack of any other competitors will also help.

When the man says 'sustainable' he means 'sustainable' :agree:

Still won't win that bloody Scotish Cup though :grr:

[barcahibs]

Fortunately Hibs are well prepared for this eventuality

My understanding is that Petrie insisted on East Mains being built within a reverse polarity wormhole (this is where the Whitty money went), thus ensuring that if the CERN accelerator thingy gets out of control and leads to particle flux disintegration, Hibs will weather the storm and come out the other side well-equipped to take advantage of our sensible and prudent 'incremental progression' policy. The lack of any other competitors will also help.

When the man says 'sustainable' he means 'sustainable' :agree:

:agree:

This type of forward (and backward) thinking is what sets us apart from other clubs.

And yet people on the main board are STILL questioning Stephen Hawkings position at the club. :brickwall

Plus he can always fill in at right back if needed.

[hibeeleicester]

this will be on a tiny scale. They are making a mini bang and seeing how the world formed. They are chucking electrons around and crash them into each other at very high speeds.

We had a lecture from a guy from the bbc and he talke dabout this but i cant remember **** all .He trys to teach science through guitars or something:greengrin

[MrRobot]

this will be on a tiny scale. They are making a mini bang and seeing how the world formed. They are chucking electrons around and crash them into each other at very high speeds.

We had a lecture from a guy from the bbc and he talke dabout this but i cant remember **** all .He trys to teach science through guitars or something:greengrin


I've heard of him.

This the guy ?

Teaching through guitar (http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/school-of-rock-jack-black-400a012907.jpg)

[GhostofBolivar]

this will be on a tiny scale. They are making a mini bang and seeing how the world formed. They are chucking electrons around and crash them into each other at very high speeds.

We had a lecture from a guy from the bbc and he talke dabout this but i cant remember **** all .He trys to teach science through guitars or something:greengrin

I don't think trying to recreate the conditions which caused a massive explosion and created the universe can really be done on a tiny scale. Is it such a great idea to try to reproduce the greatest release of energy in history?

Best case scenario: We find out some stuff that keeps theoretical physicists happy for a long time. This stuff has no practical value to anyone outside the field of theoretical physics. It also costs billions to find out.

Mid-case scenario: nothing happens.

Lower mid-case scenario: France and Switzerland disappear into a quantuum singularity. We (maybe) create Dr Manhattan.

Worst case: We destroy the galaxy.

But it's okay. The people doing the experiments commisioned a study (carried out by themselves) that said option A is far more likely than galactic destruction.

[SRHibs]

They're not actually making particles collide at full power on the 10th. They are only testing it by accelerating some particles around it. The chance of anything bad happening on the 10th is 0.

[HibbyGuBrath]

This stuff has no practical value to anyone outside the field of theoretical physics. It also costs billions to find out.
Never heard of persuit of knowledge for the sake of it? Anyway, particle physics research has led to huge developments in computing, medicine, materials etc. Nevermind the fact that hibs.net might not even exist if it wasn't for the early developement of the web at CERN!

[Mibbes Aye]

:agree:

This type of forward (and backward) thinking is what sets us apart from other clubs.

And yet people on the main board are STILL questioning Stephen Hawkings position at the club. :brickwall

Plus he can always fill in at right back if needed.

:agree: He's got a good engine for getting up and down the pitch.

[GC]

I'm all for us evolving as humans and learning new things and this experiment could provide us with amazing results but why can't we invest the billions into areas of science that save lives ie:fighting cancer.

[barcahibs]

I'm all for us evolving as humans and learning new things and this experiment could provide us with amazing results but why can't we invest the billions into areas of science that save lives ie:fighting cancer.

Thats my stock reply whenever I see 'useless' science experiments (like that guy who was investigating the dunking potential of different biscuits).

"Hows that cure for cancer coming along guys?" :greengrin

To be fair to CERN if the LHC does destroy the world then it'll take cancer with it.

To be even fairer to CERN research into particle physics could lead to all sorts of results that really will help in more tangible areas - off the top of my head a greater understanding of this kind of thing could lead to breakthroughs in quantum computing; more powerful, faster computers can't be bad especially in a computer intensive field like medicine.

[hibb1]

Im thinking this its a nice publicity stunt for the upcoming movie Angels and Demons made from the Dan Brown book of the same name.
The Large Hadron Collider,CERN and there experiments are in the book as is the battle between god and science.. It stars Ewan McGregor and Tom Hanks :dunno:

[sahib]

The term black hole, which refers to an object so dense that light cannot escape from it, has been used to describe the possible outcome of CERN's experiment. A black hole is composed of a singularity and an event horizon - without getting too technical, the singularity at the center is a point of infinite space time curvature, and the event horizon is the surrounding area where the force of gravity becomes so strong that even light is pulled into it. Once the event horizon is passed essentially nothing can escape the pull.

Also take into account that if a black hole was created, it would be a mini one. A mini black is basically one with a much smaller life span and less chance of expanding.

TBH, nobody knows exactly what will happen just because of the simple fact that it hasn't happened before. You can try and work out all the possible variables but, well, we are only human after all.

The chances of this experiment going tits up and destroying everything is similar to the chances of you getting run over by a bus tomorrow. Highly unlikely, but not necessarily impossible either:wink:

To think we signed Riordan and won't even get to see him play, typical Hibs luck:grr::greengrin


Right! now be so good as to explain the diamond system - clever dick.

[sahib]

isn't a black whole a 'dead' star after its white and red dwarf stages? where its literally a big black whole, sucking in everything into it, including light?

I didn't know there was a stage version of that show.

[--------]

The possibilities of us being consumed by a Black Hole are very small, if they do get black holes they will be so tiny that very little will happen. Anyway if everything goes according to plan a guy called Prof Peter Higgs (works in the Physics Department at Edinburgh Uni) could get a Nobel Prize for physics and we could be a whole lot closer to understanding how the universe came into being like it is today.

Small or not, we should have been consulted! :grr:


:agree:

This type of forward (and backward) thinking is what sets us apart from other clubs.

And yet people on the main board are STILL questioning Stephen Hawkings position at the club. :brickwall

Plus he can always fill in at right back if needed.


I don't mind hi filling in at right-back, but I wish they'd take him off the PA system.

"The tee-yoom todyooww ees Mwaakawooommmee, Bonnng Zongchyen, Keessshh Hhongk, Wworbbb Chongs, Poh-wuhl Hangwong...."

:grr:

[--------]

isn't a black whole a 'dead' star after its white and red dwarf stages? where its literally a big black whole, sucking in everything into it, including light?


There is.

It's called "Jonathan Ross at the Apollo". :agree:

[matty_f]

What I want to know is why there's no quotes from the Hawkers, and why this isn't on the calendar thread getting ripped to bits.

Has anyone else been furious that something that could potentially give way to time travel or something like that, is being discussed sensibly?

[Pete]

I'm all for us evolving as humans and learning new things and this experiment could provide us with amazing results but why can't we invest the billions into areas of science that save lives ie:fighting cancer.

Tottaly agree.

There are more pressing issues like lack of water, corrupt leadership and deadly diseases in the third world. Wouldn't all this money be better spent getting the big house in order first? Maybe once we've done that then we can spend money on luxuries like this.

If an experiment like this has some purpose like decreasing the worlds dependancy on fossil fuels then I might be for it. It just seems a little bit self-indulgent.

Lets evolve as humans when we are ready to do so. Projects such as this and ones that involve sending men into space just seem wrong when there are still people who have nothing to eat or drink and nowhere to live.

[shamo9]

Tottaly agree.

There are more pressing issues like lack of water, corrupt leadership and deadly diseases in the third world. Wouldn't all this money be better spent getting the big house in order first? Maybe once we've done that then we can spend money on luxuries like this.

If an experiment like this has some purpose like decreasing the worlds dependancy on fossil fuels then I might be for it. It just seems a little bit self-indulgent.

Lets evolve as humans when we are ready to do so. Projects such as this and ones that involve sending men into space just seem wrong when there are still people who have nothing to eat or drink and nowhere to live.

The problems is, there will always be those type of problems. We keep evolving, and the problems do, too.

Sometimes we need to look to the long term benefits rather than short term solutions that won't really solve anything.

[CropleyWasGod]

:agree:

This type of forward (and backward) thinking is what sets us apart from other clubs.

And yet people on the main board are STILL questioning Stephen Hawkings position at the club. :brickwall

Plus he can always fill in at right back if needed.

Not for me.... I think he gets pushed about too much.

[hibeeleicester]

there is a

1 in 50million chance we are all going to die....why take that rask and spend the billions of saving lifes instead or buy a mediocre football club and make them bigger than their rivals who are the biggest in the world...

[Mibbes Aye]

Not for me.... I think he gets pushed about too much.

That's a fair point. Mind you I would argue he doesn't get turned too easily.

[--------]

That's a fair point. Mind you I would argue he doesn't get turned too easily.


He's got a good engine, too. :cool2:

[GhostofBolivar]

Never heard of persuit of knowledge for the sake of it? Anyway, particle physics research has led to huge developments in computing, medicine, materials etc. Nevermind the fact that hibs.net might not even exist if it wasn't for the early developement of the web at CERN!

The US equivalent - FERMILAB - hasn't made a major discovery since 1995. Okay, CERN is much bigger and shinier, but it's also much more expensive. The US are considering building a similar system at a projected cost of $15bn. That'd be built in a straight line, thus enabling protons to be accelerated to higher speeds and would therefore more closely approximate the conditions of the Big Bang.

So Europe not only has a massively expensive particle accelerator that might destroy the solar system, but it couldn't even be bothered to build it to the optimum specifications.

Fantastic.

How soon til we hit that recession again?

Also, is it really in these people's interest to succeed?

"Woohoo! We've just discovered how matter is put together and how the Big Bang came about! Nobel prizes all round!"

"Ummmm, great, but aren't we all out of a job now?"

[barcahibs]

The US equivalent - FERMILAB - hasn't made a major discovery since 1995. Okay, CERN is much bigger and shinier, but it's also much more expensive. The US are considering building a similar system at a projected cost of $15bn. That'd be built in a straight line, thus enabling protons to be accelerated to higher speeds and would therefore more closely approximate the conditions of the Big Bang.

So Europe not only has a massively expensive particle accelerator that might destroy the solar system, but it couldn't even be bothered to build it to the optimum specifications.

Fantastic.

How soon til we hit that recession again?

Also, is it really in these people's interest to succeed?

"Woohoo! We've just discovered how matter is put together and how the Big Bang came about! Nobel prizes all round!"

"Ummmm, great, but aren't we all out of a job now?"

If you go by that theory though no-one would ever build anything, there'll always be someone along to do it bigger and better in a minute.

No-one knows what the possible technological spin-offs of the LHC but as someone was pointing out on the radio today modern technologies reliant on a deep understanding of particle physics already include stuff like GPS, Satnav and PET scanners in hospitals.
CERN hopes for future breakthroughs on stuff like the elimination of nuclear waste - a handy thing to have if you fancy reducing carbon emissions.

Plus its just freaking cool! A great big tunnel with a giant freaking laser* in it that might destroy the universe!

The whole things practically made of awesome.

*particle accelerator just doesn't have the same ring to it!

[SRHibs]

Does seem like a bit of a waste of money though, considering even the big bang is only a theory.

[GhostofBolivar]

No-one knows what the possible technological spin-offs of the LHC but as someone was pointing out on the radio today modern technologies reliant on a deep understanding of particle physics already include stuff like GPS, Satnav and PET scanners in hospitals.
CERN hopes for future breakthroughs on stuff like the elimination of nuclear waste - a handy thing to have if you fancy reducing carbon emissions.

Plus its just freaking cool! A great big tunnel with a giant freaking laser* in it that might destroy the universe!

The whole things practically made of awesome.

*particle accelerator just doesn't have the same ring to it!

If you want a cool name for it, try 'railgun'.

[McSwanky]

There is apparently a monitoring site for the LHC:

http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/ (http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/)

[blaikie]

There is apparently a monitoring site for the LHC:

http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/ (http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/)
:greengrin

[alex plode]

.. but why can't we invest the billions into areas of science that save lives ie:fighting cancer.



There are more pressing issues like lack of water, corrupt leadership and deadly diseases in the third world. Wouldn't all this money be better spent getting the big house in order first?


Does seem like a bit of a waste of money though, considering even the big bang is only a theory.

The experiment will investigate many theories, not only the origins of the universe, but how better to treat cancer (via radiotherapy) and how better to dispose of radioactive waste !

Not really a huge waste of money imho.

[RyeSloan]

The understanding of who we are and where we came from should be one of man's fundamental quests and CERN is a big step forward in this.

I think it is fantastic that the international community can come together to run and finance a project like this purely for scientific advancement. The people claiming the money should be spent on clean water and food rather miss the point of the benefits of advancement in human knowledge I'm afraid.

Resarch like this and scientific exploration of space is probably humankinds best chance of survival....truth and knowledge of where we came from and where we actually are relative to the rest of the universe to me is the most powerful tool against many of an insular, inward looking and self serving problems that the world faces. Certainly an earth swallowing black hole would sort everythng out pretty quickly :wink::greengrin

[barcahibs]

If you want a cool name for it, try 'railgun'.

Its still not quite the same; I like to see this as less of a 'humanity questing to push the boundaries of science in an attempt to deepen our understanding of the universe' (:yawn:) and more as the first step towards a death star.

If the guy in charge of switching it on didn't start by saying "Commence primary ignition" and then doing his best Darth Vader impression I'll be very disappointed.
:greengrin

Apparently we've all jumped the gun anyway they were only turning the beam on today they don't start crossing the streams to cause collisions til next year.

Hang on.. "crossing the streams??" Did these guys never see Ghostbusters??

[Monts]

BBC Article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm)

[Peevemor]

BBC Article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm)


LHC DETECTORS


ATLAS - one of two so-called general purpose detectors. Atlas will be used to look for signs of new physics, including the origins of mass and extra dimensions



CMS - the second general purpose detector will, like ATLAS, hunt for the Higgs boson and look for clues to the nature of dark matter



ALICE - will study a "liquid" form of matter called quark-gluon plasma that existed shortly after the Big Bang



LHCb - Equal amounts of matter and anti-matter were created in the Big Bang. LHCb will try to investigate what happened to the "missing" anti-matter



Is it just me........? :tee hee:

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it just me........? :tee hee:

No! :hilarious

[MyJo]

Its still not quite the same; I like to see this as less of a 'humanity questing to push the boundaries of science in an attempt to deepen our understanding of the universe' (:yawn:) and more as the first step towards a death star.

If the guy in charge of switching it on didn't start by saying "Commence primary ignition" and then doing his best Darth Vader impression I'll be very disappointed.
:greengrin

Apparently we've all jumped the gun anyway they were only turning the beam on today they don't start crossing the streams to cause collisions til next year.

Hang on.. "crossing the streams??" Did these guys never see Ghostbusters??

:tee hee:

I would also be extremly disappointed if they turned it on with some daft wee switch rather than a big ******-off glowing red button with a sign saying DO NOT PUSH above it

[greenlex]

The definition of a black hole is Tyncastle Park. Fact.

[Hibrandenburg]

:tee hee:

I would also be extremly disappointed if they turned it on with some daft wee switch rather than a big ******-off glowing red button with a sign saying DO NOT PUSH above it

:agree:

He should also be patting a fluffy white cat whilst explaining what's going to happen.

[Mibbes Aye]

Its still not quite the same; I like to see this as less of a 'humanity questing to push the boundaries of science in an attempt to deepen our understanding of the universe' (:yawn:) and more as the first step towards a death star.

If the guy in charge of switching it on didn't start by saying "Commence primary ignition" and then doing his best Darth Vader impression I'll be very disappointed.
:greengrin

Apparently we've all jumped the gun anyway they were only turning the beam on today they don't start crossing the streams to cause collisions til next year.

Hang on.. "crossing the streams??" Did these guys never see Ghostbusters??

Exactly!

I have recreated the experiment using my...erm, my son's Scalextric.

Today was about the beams going round in one direction. When I tried this with the red car it worked fine with no discernible side effects.

However I'm a step ahead of those quantum johnnies because I then went on to have the blue car going one way and the red going the other.

Again, no problems and more importantly no ripples in the space-time continuum.

Giddied by my initial success I then moved to the ultimate level and introduced the lanechanger!!!

The first three circuits they missed each other but come the fourth they collided and the red car flew at least a foot and a half off the track and over the floor.

I think there's a lesson for all of us in there :agree:

[barcahibs]

Exactly!

I have recreated the experiment using my...erm, my son's Scalextric.

Today was about the beams going round in one direction. When I tried this with the red car it worked fine with no discernible side effects.

However I'm a step ahead of those quantum johnnies because I then went on to have the blue car going one way and the red going the other.

Again, no problems and more importantly no ripples in the space-time continuum.

Giddied by my initial success I then moved to the ultimate level and introduced the lanechanger!!!

The first three circuits they missed each other but come the fourth they collided and the red car flew at least a foot and a half off the track and over the floor.

I think there's a lesson for all of us in there :agree:

:agree: conclusive proof of the follies of mankind.

Just think of the Scalextric track they could have built for £2billion! They could have had a bridge and everything! Two bridges! And one of those banked wall bits. :bitchy:

Will they never learn! :grr:

[McSwanky]

Just been sent an interesting link, apparently they have a couple of webcams set up for the general public to have a deek at what's actually going on. Pretty boring if you ask me.

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

[MyJo]

Just been sent an interesting link, apparently they have a couple of webcams set up for the general public to have a deek at what's actually going on. Pretty boring if you ask me.

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

:greengrin