Boycott the Olympics!!!

[Riz]

To be truely honest Im disgusted by the lack of coverage that we are getting in Scotland and the UK as a whole. Worse still the powers that be seem to be now comparing anyone who wasnt to "boycott" the games as a "terrorist" ??!!

This comes as no surprise to me but its digusts me no less. And its not just over one issue they should be boycotted, I mean take your pick! Tibet? Human Rights Violations? Oil? Pollution? Religious and state sponsored murder ... but all they seem to be giving us on the television is "terrorists" and "Muslim separatists" .... Its a total joke and we the people here are being blinded to the REAL facts!

•Most Christians in China worship in secret. They hold Mass in the middle of the night, changing locations to avoid police raids. (ABC News 20 Nov. 2005.)

•Nearly 2,000 Chistians are arrested in China every year.

• Pastor Cai Zhuohua, leader of an underground church community, was jailed for two years in 2005 for printing and distributing Bibles.

•Liu Xianzhi was severely beaten and tortured for being a member of an underground church. Religious persecution has accelerated in the last few years as the Chinese government attempts to put a halt to the rapid growth of the Chinese church.


•The Chinese have arrested hundreds of thousands of practitioners of the Falun Gong, a system of mind and body cultivation related to Buddhism. Well over 100,000 have been sent, without trial, to labour camps; some to mental institutions. Prison sentences are as long as 18 years, and there are more than 38,000 documented cases of torture. Methods include stun guns applied to the face or thrust into the mouth or vagina.

•Bu Dongwei is a Falun Gong practitioner who worked for the US-based Asia Foundation. He was not tried but was sentenced to 2-1/2 years to Re-education Through Labor (RTL). The evidence was a oral confession and 80 copies of Falun Gong literature the police said they discovered in his home.

Yet we are being shown some news from China about 14 Chinese police being killed in an explosion by "Muslim Terrorists" ... Its all just a total joke. People should not go, Athletes should either make a stand there or not go at all, and WE shouldnt watch it! If you do your turning a blind eye to mass murder.

Some German Athletes have said they will boycott the opening ceremony, some Americans say they will boycott it and bring thier own foods etc and not spen any money when they are there, BUT WHY ARE WE NOT BEING TOLD ANYTHING AND NOT BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, why do people have to do the job of the media to get the truth out these days!!!

In conclusion BOYCOTT THE GAME IN ANYWAY YOU CAN!!!

http://www.beijingolympicsboycott.com/

[Hanny]

Pleasingly, I could care less about the Olympics at the best of times.

The fact that it's being held within the borders of the most reprehensible regimes when it comes to human rights is a happy coincidence.

I hope it's a shambles and a PR disaster.

[Riz]

George Bush has given China "Most favored Nation" status!!?? Wonder why eh? :brickwall

[Scouse Hibee]

Don't give a flying fk about all the crap mentioned, I like the Olympics and will watch it and enjoy it. :greengrin

[Riz]

Don't give a flying fk about all the crap mentioned, I like the Olympics and will watch it and enjoy it. :greengrin

So your just a massively selfish person? Its a pitty that there are so many of you. Wonder how you would act if people were at your door waiting to drag you off for medical experiments ... or would you wait to see if they went next door knowing you were safe in your own house and hide behind the curtains? I know what I would be doing, and I know I would be able to live with the consiquences, or die by them.

Your veiw reminds me of the Americans view during the second world war when the Japanese were slaughtering the Chinese (Ironically), the American Media labeled it "Yellow man killing Yellow man", thus noone cared.... especially since white British people were being bombed by Germany.

[Scouse Hibee]

So your just a massively selfish person? Its a pitty that there are so many of you. Wonder how you would act if people were at your door waiting to drag you off for medical experiments ... or would you wait to see if they went next door knowing you were safe in your own house and hide behind the curtains? I know what I would be doing, and I know I would be able to live with the consiquences, or die by them.

Your veiw reminds me of the Americans view during the second world war when the Japanese were slaughtering the Chinese (Ironically), the American Media labeled it "Yellow man killing Yellow man", thus noone cared.... especially since white British people were being bombed by Germany.

Yeah you're spot on, don't give a toss whats happening around me as long as it doesn't affect me. You do enough worrying and treading of the moral high ground for both of us.

[Hibby D]

So your just a massively selfish person? Its a pitty that there are so many of you. Wonder how you would act if people were at your door waiting to drag you off for medical experiments ... or would you wait to see if they went next door knowing you were safe in your own house and hide behind the curtains? I know what I would be doing, and I know I would be able to live with the consiquences, or die by them.

Your veiw reminds me of the Americans view during the second world war when the Japanese were slaughtering the Chinese (Ironically), the American Media labeled it "Yellow man killing Yellow man", thus noone cared.... especially since white British people were being bombed by Germany.

So Riz, what else are you doing in addition to not watching the games on the telly?

[bingo70]

Yeah you're spot on, don't give a toss whats happening around me as long as it doesn't affect me. You do enough worrying and treading of the moral high ground for both of us.

to be honest i'm the same as you, i'm sure i should care a lot more than i do but i'm sorry i just don't.

i feel sorry for the athletes, they've all trained all their lives so they can be at there physical peak and now all that work could be meaningless if a number of protesters get their way and disrupt the events, i'm sure theres a lot more important things than being a good athlete but i don't know enough about that stuff for it to really bother me, besides its not the athletes faults whats going on.

did notice though theres going to be a ban on the st andrews flag at the olympics this year as scotlands not a competing nation, have to admit that pissed me off a bit

[Gatecrasher]

to be honest i'm the same as you, i'm sure i should care a lot more than i do but i'm sorry i just don't.

i feel sorry for the athletes, they've all trained all their lives so they can be at there physical peak and now all that work could be meaningless if a number of protesters get their way and disrupt the events, i'm sure theres a lot more important things than being a good athlete but i don't know enough about that stuff for it to really bother me, besides its not the athletes faults whats going on.

did notice though theres going to be a ban on the st andrews flag at the olympics this year as scotlands not a competing nation, have to admit that pissed me off a bit

exactly, just let the games happen there is nothing worse than trying to do what you train for then a bunch of manky hippies get in your way

[Riz]

So Riz, what else are you doing in addition to not watching the games on the telly?


I ve already done a show in Beijing and was followed with a press conference infront of what I was told was anything up to 60 million people where I repeatedly mentioned Tibet, so much so that the interview was cut short and so was my stay in China. I also have added the link above to my mailout list of over 40,000 people, Ive asked for support on Myspace to my 13,000 members and I have been asked to do a gig in Glasgow and London during the Olympics... of course even if this thread here wakes up ONE person then its done its job, acorns to trees and all that. Glad you asked tho, bet your not :wink:

[Scouse Hibee]

I ve already done a show in Beijing and was followed with a press conference infront of what I was told was anything up to 60 million people where I repeatedly mentioned Tibet, so much so that the interview was cut short and so was my stay in China. I also have added the link above to my mailout list of over 40,000 people, Ive asked for support on Myspace to my 13,000 members and I have been asked to do a gig in Glasgow and London during the Olympics... of course even if this thread here wakes up ONE person then its done its job, acorns to trees and all that. Glad you asked tho, bet your not :wink:


I was right then :greengrin

[Riz]

exactly, just let the games happen there is nothing worse than trying to do what you train for then a bunch of manky hippies get in your way

Manky Hippies? Monks in Tibet are not "manky Hippies" murdered Christian chinese = Hippies? Murdered Chinese Muslims = Hippies? Murdered Buhdists = Hippies? I do believe if you have nothing better to say you should crawl back under the rock you climbed out from! What a horribly ignorant thing to say. I think theres a buy one get one free on a lads mag in your local store, go read that as this is obviously above you.

I do sympathise wih the athletes, but in life there are bigger and more important things going on that running around in a cirlce etc. If anything, this is there chance to REALLY go down in histroy. Its just a shame so many are so selfish.

...and its nothing to do with taking the moral high ground, its knowing whats right and whats wrong, and its called making a stand.

[LiverpoolHibs]

exactly, just let the games happen there is nothing worse than trying to do what you train for then a bunch of manky hippies get in your way
Oh Dear....

Incidentally, do you feel the same way about boycotting of the Zimbabwe cricket team? Or the sporting boycotts of aparthied South Africa?

[Riz]

Oh Dear....

Incidentally, do you feel the same way about boycotting of the Zimbabwe cricket team? Or the sporting boycotts of aparthied South Africa?

mate if you started that list you could be here all day, and its safe to say there are all "Hippies" :wink:

[lucky]

The Chinese government has an appalling record on human rights but I am against any boycott as it generally serves no purpose. It is better for the people that the world will be focusing on China which should bring about some change to the freedoms of the People. remember the previous boycotts of Moscow and LA, made no difference. However you make lots of extremely valid points but you are not going to change anything with boycotts.

[Riz]

The Chinese government has an appalling record on human rights but I am against any boycott as it generally serves no purpose. It is better for the people that the world will be focusing on China which should bring about some change to the freedoms of the People. remember the previous boycotts of Moscow and LA, made no difference. However you make lots of extremely valid points but you are not going to change anything with boycotts.

I see your point here ... if the event go ahead...which they will ... its not the fans there and the athletes fault, but they do need to make a stand!

[Gatecrasher]

Oh Dear....

Incidentally, do you feel the same way about boycotting of the Zimbabwe cricket team? Or the sporting boycotts of aparthied South Africa?

china arent starving a whole country to death so no


Manky Hippies? Monks in Tibet are not "manky Hippies" murdered Christian chinese = Hippies? Murdered Chinese Muslims = Hippies? Murdered Buhdists = Hippies? I do believe if you have nothing better to say you should crawl back under the rock you climbed out from! What a horribly ignorant thing to say. I think theres a buy one get one free on a lads mag in your local store, go read that as this is obviously above you.

I do sympathise wih the athletes, but in life there are bigger and more important things going on that running around in a cirlce etc. If anything, this is there chance to REALLY go down in histroy. Its just a shame so many are so selfish.

...and its nothing to do with taking the moral high ground, its knowing whats right and whats wrong, and its called making a stand.

exactly so leave it alone and tibet can protest another time. so what gives people the right to ruin some peoples only chance at being the best at the thing they do?

i dont agree with whats going on there but personally i dont think we have a right to tell china how to go about their business, the only thing that concerns me about china is the pollution. but hey we cant do anything about that either so :dunno:

[marinello59]

Riz, I feel you are overplaying the lack of media interest in human rights violations in China, there has been masses of coverage over the years. Or maybe I am reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV programmes. To be honest I can't recall one instance of those who wish to boycott the games being described as terrorists. (I may have misread your comment about that one though.)
In fact, unless I am mistaken, even the Lib Dem leader got in on the act this week by suggesting that Oor Broonie should boycott both the opening and closing ceremonies. There were also stories about the Chinese authorities attempting to restrict Internet access by blocking sites they deemed subversive. ie Amnesty International etc.
The Muslim terrorist story is a valid one to report today given that the attitude of the rest of the world to China's repeated insistence that they were threatened by Muslim ''freedom fighters'' was sceptical to say the least. Like they say, this one could run and run.
FWIW I agree with the sentiment of your opening post, you have perhaps over-egged the pudding though.

[Sylar]

To be truely honest Im disgusted by the lack of coverage that we are getting in Scotland and the UK as a whole. Worse still the powers that be seem to be now comparing anyone who wasnt to "boycott" the games as a "terrorist" ??!!

This comes as no surprise to me but its digusts me no less. And its not just over one issue they should be boycotted, I mean take your pick! Tibet? Human Rights Violations? Oil? Pollution? Religious and state sponsored murder ... but all they seem to be giving us on the television is "terrorists" and "Muslim separatists" .... Its a total joke and we the people here are being blinded to the REAL facts!

•Most Christians in China worship in secret. They hold Mass in the middle of the night, changing locations to avoid police raids. (ABC News 20 Nov. 2005.)

•Nearly 2,000 Chistians are arrested in China every year.

• Pastor Cai Zhuohua, leader of an underground church community, was jailed for two years in 2005 for printing and distributing Bibles.

•Liu Xianzhi was severely beaten and tortured for being a member of an underground church. Religious persecution has accelerated in the last few years as the Chinese government attempts to put a halt to the rapid growth of the Chinese church.


•The Chinese have arrested hundreds of thousands of practitioners of the Falun Gong, a system of mind and body cultivation related to Buddhism. Well over 100,000 have been sent, without trial, to labour camps; some to mental institutions. Prison sentences are as long as 18 years, and there are more than 38,000 documented cases of torture. Methods include stun guns applied to the face or thrust into the mouth or vagina.

•Bu Dongwei is a Falun Gong practitioner who worked for the US-based Asia Foundation. He was not tried but was sentenced to 2-1/2 years to Re-education Through Labor (RTL). The evidence was a oral confession and 80 copies of Falun Gong literature the police said they discovered in his home.

Yet we are being shown some news from China about 14 Chinese police being killed in an explosion by "Muslim Terrorists" ... Its all just a total joke. People should not go, Athletes should either make a stand there or not go at all, and WE shouldnt watch it! If you do your turning a blind eye to mass murder.

Some German Athletes have said they will boycott the opening ceremony, some Americans say they will boycott it and bring thier own foods etc and not spen any money when they are there, BUT WHY ARE WE NOT BEING TOLD ANYTHING AND NOT BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, why do people have to do the job of the media to get the truth out these days!!!

In conclusion BOYCOTT THE GAME IN ANYWAY YOU CAN!!!

http://www.beijingolympicsboycott.com/


For all of the above reasons (which I held in prior knowledge anyway), I've had every intention to boycott the games.

I may be wrong in this, but i'm sure China voiced an intent to ban all travelling Christian athletes and delegates from entering the games - this was being discussed at the Vatican when we were there earlier in the year and I was disgusted with China's stance.

I hope the games are a complete flop.

[Rice Pudding]

Although alot of the things you have mentioned are true and therefore unacceptable I myself dont really think sport and politics should mix although unfortunitly they seem to do alot. I really doubt that refusing to watch it will help in anyway. I don't really pay attention to the host of tournaments but more to the sport on offer so whether it was in china or anywhere else all the olympics are and should be about in my opinion is the sport.

[bingo70]

for those interested panarama tonight is about the olympics, just starting on BBC1 just now

[Riz]

For all of the above reasons (which I held in prior knowledge anyway), I've had every intention to boycott the games.

I may be wrong in this, but i'm sure China voiced an intent to ban all travelling Christian athletes and delegates from entering the games - this was being discussed at the Vatican when we were there earlier in the year and I was disgusted with China's stance.

I hope the games are a complete flop.


Intersting, what is it you do? Or were you at the vatican in a tourist capacity?

[Riz]

Riz, I feel you are overplaying the lack of media interest in human rights violations in China, there has been masses of coverage over the years. Or maybe I am reading the wrong papers and watching the wrong TV programmes. To be honest I can't recall one instance of those who wish to boycott the games being described as terrorists. (I may have misread your comment about that one though.)
In fact, unless I am mistaken, even the Lib Dem leader got in on the act this week by suggesting that Oor Broonie should boycott both the opening and closing ceremonies. There were also stories about the Chinese authorities attempting to restrict Internet access by blocking sites they deemed subversive. ie Amnesty International etc.
The Muslim terrorist story is a valid one to report today given that the attitude of the rest of the world to China's repeated insistence that they were threatened by Muslim ''freedom fighters'' was sceptical to say the least. Like they say, this one could run and run.
FWIW I agree with the sentiment of your opening post, you have perhaps over-egged the pudding though.


Ive heard of a few politians speaking about this but not much. Ive also seen the stuff about banning links on the net. But I havent seen anything or read anything about the medical experiments and the Monks of Tibet. I dont expect Brown to do anything.

[Gatecrasher]

Ive heard of a few politians speaking about this but not much. Ive also seen the stuff about banning links on the net. But I havent seen anything or read anything about the medical experiments and the Monks of Tibet. I dont expect Brown to do anything.

what do you expect him to do like, there is SFA he can do about it!

[Riz]

what do you expect him to do like, there is SFA he can do about it!

Not go to opening or ending ceremony would be a start

[Gatecrasher]

Not go to opening or ending ceremony would be a start

that wont change anything though, either will making a speach, or boycotting the games. the only people that can do something is the chinese themselves, they are such a huge and powerful country it would be stupid to mess with them

[Jack]

The whole thing is a sham.

The Olympic Committee by not using the latest technology that is available to detect drug cheats is basically saying saying to athletes its OK to cheat. There are tests out there now, where the research was paid for by the Olympic Committee that would catch cheats using a particular drug – mostly manufactured in China funnily enough, that wont be used. There are confirmed cheats allowed to take part.


The Olympic Committee by not using its power in giving the games, with conditions attached about human rights and various other things has told China, and any other coutry that wants to hold the games its OK to abuse whoever, whenever you want.

Don’t even mention with all the money washing about in the system the fact its for amateurs. Allowances yes, handsome allowances OK but Andy Murray is a professional tennis player, Yves Ma-Kalambay is a professional footballer. You’ll be able to tell the real amateurs – they’ll be last!

1936 / 2008 the Olympic Committee support an oppressive regime.


The whole thing stinks!

[Sylar]

Intersting, what is it you do? Or were you at the vatican in a tourist capacity?

Just in a tourist capacity - we attended a Mass inside St Peter's and they were discussing (tested the Latin, as i've not attended a Latin Mass in a long while!!!) this during the ceremony - we spoke to one of the priests afterwards and he had said that there was real concern leading up to the games.

[Riz]

Just in a tourist capacity - we attended a Mass inside St Peter's and they were discussing (tested the Latin, as i've not attended a Latin Mass in a long while!!!) this during the ceremony - we spoke to one of the priests afterwards and he had said that there was real concern leading up to the games.

Ah cool, I have alot of family in Italy. Been to the vatican a few times, but have to be honest and say I lost my faith a while ago now, Im very spiritual, just no longer religious, if you know what I mean. Parla Italiano?

[Sylar]

Il mio Italiano è un [rusty] di pezzetto, ma sull'intero, sì, posso parlare la lingua. La metà della mia famiglia sono Siciliana, dunque è nel sangue mai così un po'.

I'm aware some of that is out gramatically, but it's been a while since i've had to write Italian!

Not overly religious myself either, although Catholic by choice, I have a strong science background (Geophysicist) - just thought going to a Mass in the Vatican would have been a nice experience.

[Riz]

that wont change anything though, either will making a speach, or boycotting the games. the only people that can do something is the chinese themselves, they are such a huge and powerful country it would be stupid to mess with them

Fear can control 100000000 people as easily as it can 1 person. Its information that can mobalise the masses an information they are being denied.

[Riz]

Il mio Italiano è un [rusty] di pezzetto, ma sull'intero, sì, posso parlare la lingua. La metà della mia famiglia sono Siciliana, dunque è nel sangue mai così un po'.

I'm aware some of that is out gramatically, but it's been a while since i've had to write Italian!

Not overly religious myself either, although Catholic by choice, I have a strong science background (Geophysicist) - just thought going to a Mass in the Vatican would have been a nice experience.

Sicily...thats cool, so do you consider yourself Italian or Sicilian? My brother has been out there biking with his mates from Abrusso.

la mia grammatica è molto Male e parlo soltanto piccolo italiano anche se posso parlare di più e capire più di io posso scrivere e la mia ortografia è ancora più difettosa di la mia ortografia inglese lol

[SlickShoes]

china arent starving a whole country to death so no



exactly so leave it alone and tibet can protest another time. so what gives people the right to ruin some peoples only chance at being the best at the thing they do?

i dont agree with whats going on there but personally i dont think we have a right to tell china how to go about their business, the only thing that concerns me about china is the pollution. but hey we cant do anything about that either so :dunno:

Tibet can protest another time? Do you have ANY idea what the whole tibet thing is even about? If you think they should shut up and just protest another time i really wonder about where your prioriities in life lie! Thats just an Unbelieveable statement!

[Hibby D]

I ve already done a show in Beijing and was followed with a press conference infront of what I was told was anything up to 60 million people where I repeatedly mentioned Tibet, so much so that the interview was cut short and so was my stay in China. I also have added the link above to my mailout list of over 40,000 people, Ive asked for support on Myspace to my 13,000 members and I have been asked to do a gig in Glasgow and London during the Olympics... of course even if this thread here wakes up ONE person then its done its job, acorns to trees and all that. Glad you asked tho, bet your not :wink:


On the contrary Riz. My question wasn't intended to trip you up; merely to guage what the ordinary punter on the street can do other than turn their telly off. Seems I've not asked an "ordinary punter" though :wink: and I don't know what you do for a living that gives you the opportunity to speak to so many people :dunno:

The biggest audience I have access to is here on .net and maybe an odd 40-50 tenants if I'm speaking at a tenants meeting. Sadly I don't think the cooncil would be too happy if I started on about the Tibetan Monks or followers of Falun Gong.

I also have no real knowledge of the atrocities you speak of; yes I know they exist but in all honesty I do not have the time or the ability to take on such a fight. Where does someone begin when they choose a cause to fight for :dunno: Most people will naturally stay close to home. I help homeless people and victims of domestic abuse. I help our older generation to find suitable housing. Okay I get paid for it as it's my job but I do get a great sense of satisfaction from it.

I sponsor a child in one of the Dnipro orphanages and I raise money for St columbus hospice as often as I can. I'm not patting myself on the back here, simply tying to explain that I'm only one individual and I've made choices as to whose corner I'm going to fight. I believe most people are like me. Average Joe's doing what they can when they can.

I'll be honest, I don't spend time thinking about the politics of China and the atrocities imposed by their government. And I certainly don't think I'm "selfish" because of it either!

Well done on everything you are doing :agree:

EDIT: And I probably will watch some of the olympics - the football most likely :greengrin:

[Riz]

On the contrary Riz. My question wasn't intended to trip you up; merely to guage what the ordinary punter on the street can do other than turn their telly off. Seems I've not asked an "ordinary punter" though :wink: and I don't know what you do for a living that gives you the opportunity to speak to so many people :dunno:

The biggest audience I have access to is here on .net and maybe an odd 40-50 tenants if I'm speaking at a tenants meeting. Sadly I don't think the cooncil would be too happy if I started on about the Tibetan Monks or followers of Falun Gong.

I also have no real knowledge of the atrocities you speak of; yes I know they exist but in all honesty I do not have the time or the ability to take on such a fight. Where does someone begin when they choose a cause to fight for :dunno: Most people will naturally stay close to home. I help homeless people and victims of domestic abuse. I help our older generation to find suitable housing. Okay I get paid for it as it's my job but I do get a great sense of satisfaction from it.

I sponsor a child in one of the Dnipro orphanages and I raise money for St columbus hospice as often as I can. I'm not patting myself on the back here, simply tying to explain that I'm only one individual and I've made choices as to whose corner I'm going to fight. I believe most people are like me. Average Joe's doing what they can when they can.

I'll be honest, I don't spend time thinking about the politics of China and the atrocities imposed by their government. And I certainly don't think I'm "selfish" because of it either!

Well done on everything you are doing :agree:

EDIT: And I probably will watch some of the olympics - the football most likely :greengrin:


My humblest apologies. I saw your comment the wrong way and I apologise. It seems you have your hands full (good on you) so no wonder you cant keep up with what goes on in China. Its always hard to stay in touch with everything and noone can always cover everything which as a whole makes me sad as I like to help out where ever and when ever I can, again congratulations on all you do. Good to speak to fellow Hibees that help each others around them rather than being "selfish" which I am seeing more and more often on this forum and society as a whole!.

[Riz]

Tibet can protest another time? Do you have ANY idea what the whole tibet thing is even about? If you think they should shut up and just protest another time i really wonder about where your prioriities in life lie! Thats just an Unbelieveable statement!

I hear you mate! :agree:

[hibsdaft]

i think Tibet gets too favourable a press, there is no objectivity.

when there were what was effectively race riots with random chinese getting beaten to death on the streets for no reason back in march all you heard was "poor tibet poor tibet", eh wtf?

it was no difference to the LA riots of 91

aye in both instances you can understand the rage and when that rage is unleashed its going to be ugly, but there was no critisicm or analysis, totally ridiculous reporting.

now today we have what imo is arguably a fairer bit of violence, against an undemocratic authoritarean state (rather than civilians) and its being reported more like a terrorist attck.

i just think cos the west likes to think of these buddhists as being all cute and harmless that we lose all objectivity. if you kill a random on the street and its out of order whereever the **** you're from.

as for that dalai lama i think its another joke religious figure and he's given far too lenient a press. i am no expert but i understand that his predecessors from before Chinese rule were a shower of ruthless oppressive *******s too.

i'd like to hear more about the chinese like the thousands evicted from their homes for the Games and the rural people who have moved to the city and who are not given the same access to education etc, they never get their moments press which i find strange.

and don't get me wrong i feel sorry for Tibet and tibetans and hope that they get their freedom and that, but lets not lose all objectivity and balance in the meantime.

[LiverpoolHibs]

china arent starving a whole country to death so no



exactly so leave it alone and tibet can protest another time. so what gives people the right to ruin some peoples only chance at being the best at the thing they do?

i dont agree with whats going on there but personally i dont think we have a right to tell china how to go about their business, the only thing that concerns me about china is the pollution. but hey we cant do anything about that either so :dunno:

Neither was apartheid South Africa.

The rest of your post is absolutely laughable. Protest at another time? Jesus wept...

[LiverpoolHibs]

i think Tibet gets too favourable a press, there is no objectivity.

when there were what was effectively race riots with random chinese getting beaten to death on the streets for no reason back in march all you heard was "poor tibet poor tibet", eh wtf?

it was no difference to the LA riots of 91

aye in both instances you can understand the rage and when that rage is unleashed its going to be ugly, but there was no critisicm or analysis, totally ridiculous reporting.

now today we have what imo is arguably a fairer bit of violence, against an undemocratic authoritarean state (rather than civilians) and its being reported more like a terrorist attck.

i just think cos the west likes to think of these buddhists as being all cute and harmless that we lose all objectivity. if you kill a random on the street and its out of order whereever the **** you're from.

as for that dalai lama i think its another joke religious figure and he's given far too lenient a press. i am no expert but i understand that his predecessors from before Chinese rule were a shower of ruthless oppressive *******s too.

i'd like to hear more about the chinese like the thousands evicted from their homes for the Games and the rural people who have moved to the city and who are not given the same access to education etc, they never get their moments press which i find strange.

and don't get me wrong i feel sorry for Tibet and tibetans and hope that they get their freedom and that, but lets not lose all objectivity and balance in the meantime.

:agree:

Top post.

[Riz]

:agree:

Top post.

I dont agree, to label it like the LA riots or to even compare it?

Also, the Dalai Lama isnt a joke figure in my eyes at all.

There is ALOT thats goes on in Tibet that is not and will never be covered by the mainstream media

[LiverpoolHibs]

I dont agree, to label it like the LA riots or to even compare it?

Also, the Dalai Lama isnt a joke figure in my eyes at all.

There is ALOT thats goes on in Tibet that is not and will never be covered by the mainstream media

Christopher Hitchens' rather good article on the Dalai Lama...

http://http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

I'm not often a fan of Hitchens (and even less his brother) but he illustrates the hypocrisy of the Dalai Lama well.

He also doesn't point out the theocratic feudalism and slave-owning of Tibet prior the disgusting Chinese invasion...

[Hibrandenburg]

With a population of around 1,300,000,000 the government have their hands full trying to keep any form of coordinated organisation. Without a strong hard government the potential for chaos and civil war ala Balkans is great. China has suffered hard at the hands of foreign powers and internal dictators in the past which makes in my eyes their hard line approach to keeping things together understandable.

Let them have their games but let them know we'll still be watching when the athletes go home.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

So your just a massively selfish person? Its a pitty that there are so many of you. Wonder how you would act if people were at your door waiting to drag you off for medical experiments ... or would you wait to see if they went next door knowing you were safe in your own house and hide behind the curtains? I know what I would be doing, and I know I would be able to live with the consiquences, or die by them.

Your veiw reminds me of the Americans view during the second world war when the Japanese were slaughtering the Chinese (Ironically), the American Media labeled it "Yellow man killing Yellow man", thus noone cared.... especially since white British people were being bombed by Germany.

PMSL, so by boycotting what will it achieve?

I'lll tell you........... NOTHING, Do you even understand how a communist regime works?

[--------]

Weel I won't be watching them.

They're on too late, most of what goes on doesn't interest me, and public-relations exercises on behalf of the sort of fascist thugs who run the People's Republic don't interest me.

Could someone PLEASE tell me why "The Olmypics" are considered such a good thing?

I mean, with the politics, and the drugs, and the raging nationalism, and all the rest of the crud surrounding them?

Or is that a question we're not supposed to ask? :cool2:

[Gatecrasher]

Tibet can protest another time? Do you have ANY idea what the whole tibet thing is even about? If you think they should shut up and just protest another time i really wonder about where your prioriities in life lie! Thats just an Unbelieveable statement!

my priorities are

football
cars
music
work

i couldnt give a **** about the rest.

yeah i said tibet can protest i didnt say what would happen to them if they did.


Neither was apartheid South Africa.

The rest of your post is absolutely laughable. Protest at another time? Jesus wept...

:blah:

[LiverpoolHibs]

:blah:

Touché...

[Bishop Hibee]

Just played host to 2 Chinese boys aged 14 for two weeks who were learning English at Leith Academy (insert joke here :greengrin). Both said no one they knew wanted the games as it was far too expensive while so many people were struggling to make ends meet. Sounded like many peoples attitude to the trams/London olympics here.

[Riz]

Christopher Hitchens' rather good article on the Dalai Lama...

http://http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

I'm not often a fan of Hitchens (and even less his brother) but he illustrates the hypocrisy of the Dalai Lama well.

He also doesn't point out the theocratic feudalism and slave-owning of Tibet prior the disgusting Chinese invasion...

Thanks mate, I will look that up, cheers

[Riz]

my priorities are

football
cars
music
work

i couldnt give a **** about the rest.

yeah i said tibet can protest i didnt say what would happen to them if they did.



:blah:


so your priorities are more...

1, me
2, Myself
3, I
4, Anything that effects me

:greengrin

[Riz]

PMSL, so by boycotting what will it achieve?

I'lll tell you........... NOTHING, Do you even understand how a communist regime works?

I know enough to not even bother acknowledging your post with a proper reply .. Hows that for a Communist Regime? :wink:

[Riz]

Just played host to 2 Chinese boys aged 14 for two weeks who were learning English at Leith Academy (insert joke here :greengrin). Both said no one they knew wanted the games as it was far too expensive while so many people were struggling to make ends meet. Sounded like many peoples attitude to the trams/London olympics here.

Yeh I hear you on that mate. I did some work a while back for "ChildrenFirst", we took kids from China, Bosnia, Serbia, Uganda, Botswana, Liberia, Palestine, Israel and Northern Ireland away on a retreat. All the kids were vary warry of each other but soon realised that they were just kids like themselves. Some of the stories the kids told would make a statue weep.

The Chinese kids most about 9/10 had basically given up all fight and life that a kid that age would have. It matters not the amount of them, they are born into fear and held by that fear, they know nothing of anything other than fear and are not really allowed to see how others live. When I was in China I was sickened by the way the kids and the people as a whole were treated, they were spoken down to by soldiers, police even parking attendants, and they were genuinly terrified of anyone or anything ... it was really weird. The street kids who were mutilated by their own parents so they would make more money begging!!! Just utterly shocking!!! Ended up spending all I had in my pocket on getting them something to eat, the kids were jst skin and bones, even then they hid to eat so their parents never saw them, its such a desperate situation out there and we dont know how good we have it!

[scott7_0(Prague)]

I know enough to not even bother acknowledging your post with a proper reply .. Hows that for a Communist Regime? :wink:

Well until you learn a bit more about these people, their groups and their views, boycotting watching the Olympics will get you no where, nether will your programs, posts or anything else you throw at them!!! :wink: back at ya!

[Riz]

Well until you learn a bit more about these people, their groups and their views, boycotting watching the Olympics will get you no where, nether will your programs, posts or anything else you throw at them!!! :wink: back at ya!

Theres no string in your racket, the ball went out of play a while ago mate :wink:

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Theres no string in your racket, the ball went out of play a while ago mate :wink:

You think!!

I bet me watching the Olympics has the exact same effect on the Chinease government as all your shouting, jumping up and down and protesting/boycotting!!

Fancy taken me up on that bet?

[Hibrandenburg]

You think!!

I bet me watching the Olympics has the exact same effect on the Chinease government as all your shouting, jumping up and down and protesting/boycotting!!

Fancy taken me up on that bet?

When watching the Olympics, I personally will be stuffing my face with number 43 which has many more locally produced ingredients rather than my usual number 37 which relies far more on imported mainland China ingredients. As a result of my one man embargo I fully expect the Regime to collapse within hours of Olympia 2008 closing.

[Hibrandenburg]

To be truely honest Im disgusted by the lack of coverage that we are getting in Scotland and the UK as a whole. Worse still the powers that be seem to be now comparing anyone who wasnt to "boycott" the games as a "terrorist" ??!!

This comes as no surprise to me but its digusts me no less. And its not just over one issue they should be boycotted, I mean take your pick! Tibet? Human Rights Violations? Oil? Pollution? Religious and state sponsored murder ... but all they seem to be giving us on the television is "terrorists" and "Muslim separatists" .... Its a total joke and we the people here are being blinded to the REAL facts!

•Most Christians in China worship in secret. They hold Mass in the middle of the night, changing locations to avoid police raids. (ABC News 20 Nov. 2005.)

•Nearly 2,000 Chistians are arrested in China every year.

• Pastor Cai Zhuohua, leader of an underground church community, was jailed for two years in 2005 for printing and distributing Bibles.

•Liu Xianzhi was severely beaten and tortured for being a member of an underground church. Religious persecution has accelerated in the last few years as the Chinese government attempts to put a halt to the rapid growth of the Chinese church.


•The Chinese have arrested hundreds of thousands of practitioners of the Falun Gong, a system of mind and body cultivation related to Buddhism. Well over 100,000 have been sent, without trial, to labour camps; some to mental institutions. Prison sentences are as long as 18 years, and there are more than 38,000 documented cases of torture. Methods include stun guns applied to the face or thrust into the mouth or vagina.

•Bu Dongwei is a Falun Gong practitioner who worked for the US-based Asia Foundation. He was not tried but was sentenced to 2-1/2 years to Re-education Through Labor (RTL). The evidence was a oral confession and 80 copies of Falun Gong literature the police said they discovered in his home.

Yet we are being shown some news from China about 14 Chinese police being killed in an explosion by "Muslim Terrorists" ... Its all just a total joke. People should not go, Athletes should either make a stand there or not go at all, and WE shouldnt watch it! If you do your turning a blind eye to mass murder.

Some German Athletes have said they will boycott the opening ceremony, some Americans say they will boycott it and bring thier own foods etc and not spen any money when they are there, BUT WHY ARE WE NOT BEING TOLD ANYTHING AND NOT BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, why do people have to do the job of the media to get the truth out these days!!!

In conclusion BOYCOTT THE GAME IN ANYWAY YOU CAN!!!

http://www.beijingolympicsboycott.com/


You're not stuck up a power mast at the moment are you :whistle:

[steakbake]

Christopher Hitchens' rather good article on the Dalai Lama...

http://http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

I'm not often a fan of Hitchens (and even less his brother) but he illustrates the hypocrisy of the Dalai Lama well.

He also doesn't point out the theocratic feudalism and slave-owning of Tibet prior the disgusting Chinese invasion...

Overall, I think that if the Tibetan people want to free their country from Chinese administration, then I am all for it.

One of my problems with the Western Free Tibet movement is that they seem to be invariably in favour of gaining control of Tibet to hand it over to theocracy of supposedly benevolent monks.

What I also dont understand is how Tibet could survive as an independent state.

What about their public sector and the jobless?
And what currency would they use?
And what about people who are from tibet but have family in China, would they now need visas to go and visit them? Would they still get Westenders on TV?
And would you really want a Tibetan in charge of Tibet? I mean, they hardly have the experience of running a country at that level, do they.

And then there is the economy - how would they make ends meet?

And they can forget about being automatically allowed into the Asian Song Competition without a lengthy application process first?

What passport would they hold?

Actually, nah, it sounds like too much bother. Lets just leave it as it is.

Sound familiar?

[Sergio sledge]

You're not stuck up a power mast at the moment are you :whistle:

:tee hee:

FWIW, I agree with the point of Riz's post, China should never have been given the Olympics in the first place. I don;t however think that a boycott will do anything at all. I also disagree that the Tibet and human rights issues haven't got much press. I think they have, almost every day when I check various news websites, there are stories about protests, articles about morale standpoints, and editorials on it. There has been a lot of coverage, I think it has mostly toughened China's stance and brought out a bit of a seige mentality from them though.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Overall, I think that if the Tibetan people want to free their country from Chinese administration, then I am all for it.

One of my problems with the Western Free Tibet movement is that they seem to be invariably in favour of gaining control of Tibet to hand it over to theocracy of supposedly benevolent monks.

What I also dont understand is how Tibet could survive as an independent state.

What about their public sector and the jobless?
And what currency would they use?
And what about people who are from tibet but have family in China, would they now need visas to go and visit them? Would they still get Westenders on TV?
And would you really want a Tibetan in charge of Tibet? I mean, they hardly have the experience of running a country at that level, do they.

And then there is the economy - how would they make ends meet?

And they can forget about being automatically allowed into the Asian Song Competition without a lengthy application process first?

What passport would they hold?

Actually, nah, it sounds like too much bother. Lets just leave it as it is.

Sound familiar?

That wasn't my point at all.

[steakbake]

That wasn't my point at all.

I know. I liked your post and it made a good point.

I just went on a separate rant. Or should that be, a separatist rant.

Should I have posted it as a separate post and made mention of that in the preamble to the post?

I just think it is interesting how independence or succession is viewed differently for different countries around the world.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I know. I liked your post and it made a good point.

I just went on a separate rant. Or should that be, a separatist rant.

Should I have posted it as a separate post and made mention of that in the preamble to the post?

I just think it is interesting how independence or succession is viewed differently for different countries around the world.

Ah right, sorry. :greengrin

Just me being easily confused I think.

[LiverpoolHibs]

The more I read about the Dalai Lama the more I am growing to despise him. He apparently thinks that the Chinese occupation is a 'karma-style' punishment for the past crimes of the Tibetans and, in a similar vein, that the disabled are paying for crimes in past lives. In short, the man is a fool.

[Riz]

You think!!

I bet me watching the Olympics has the exact same effect on the Chinease government as all your shouting, jumping up and down and protesting/boycotting!!

Fancy taken me up on that bet?

... I do in the way that every movement and action envokes change, however little. The fact that we are even discussing it here shows a change.

[Riz]

The more I read about the Dalai Lama the more I am growing to despise him. He apparently thinks that the Chinese occupation is a 'karma-style' punishment for the past crimes of the Tibetans and, in a similar vein, that the disabled are paying for crimes in past lives. In short, the man is a fool.

as a form of organised religion, I dont like it one bit. As a form to enlighten and elevate the people, then Im all for it. Its getting the happy medium tho ... no pun intended.

[hibeerobbo]

To be truely honest Im disgusted by the lack of coverage that we are getting in Scotland and the UK as a whole. Worse still the powers that be seem to be now comparing anyone who wasnt to "boycott" the games as a "terrorist" ??!!

This comes as no surprise to me but its digusts me no less. And its not just over one issue they should be boycotted, I mean take your pick! Tibet? Human Rights Violations? Oil? Pollution? Religious and state sponsored murder ... but all they seem to be giving us on the television is "terrorists" and "Muslim separatists" .... Its a total joke and we the people here are being blinded to the REAL facts!

•Most Christians in China worship in secret. They hold Mass in the middle of the night, changing locations to avoid police raids. (ABC News 20 Nov. 2005.)

•Nearly 2,000 Chistians are arrested in China every year.

• Pastor Cai Zhuohua, leader of an underground church community, was jailed for two years in 2005 for printing and distributing Bibles.

•Liu Xianzhi was severely beaten and tortured for being a member of an underground church. Religious persecution has accelerated in the last few years as the Chinese government attempts to put a halt to the rapid growth of the Chinese church.


•The Chinese have arrested hundreds of thousands of practitioners of the Falun Gong, a system of mind and body cultivation related to Buddhism. Well over 100,000 have been sent, without trial, to labour camps; some to mental institutions. Prison sentences are as long as 18 years, and there are more than 38,000 documented cases of torture. Methods include stun guns applied to the face or thrust into the mouth or vagina.

•Bu Dongwei is a Falun Gong practitioner who worked for the US-based Asia Foundation. He was not tried but was sentenced to 2-1/2 years to Re-education Through Labor (RTL). The evidence was a oral confession and 80 copies of Falun Gong literature the police said they discovered in his home.

Yet we are being shown some news from China about 14 Chinese police being killed in an explosion by "Muslim Terrorists" ... Its all just a total joke. People should not go, Athletes should either make a stand there or not go at all, and WE shouldnt watch it! If you do your turning a blind eye to mass murder.

Some German Athletes have said they will boycott the opening ceremony, some Americans say they will boycott it and bring thier own foods etc and not spen any money when they are there, BUT WHY ARE WE NOT BEING TOLD ANYTHING AND NOT BEING TOLD THE TRUTH, why do people have to do the job of the media to get the truth out these days!!!

In conclusion BOYCOTT THE GAME IN ANYWAY YOU CAN!!!

http://www.beijingolympicsboycott.com/

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *snore* zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I feel asleep half way through that post

[scott7_0(Prague)]

... I do in the way that every movement and action envokes change, however little. The fact that we are even discussing it here shows a change.

Does it!!!

maybe your pushing some people to support the games as your boring them by all this preaching! :greengrin:agree:

[chorley_fm]

Ban ALL religion

Lets look at our appauling human rights issues before worrying about other countries

[LiverpoolHibs]

Ban ALL religion

Lets look at our appauling human rights issues before worrying about other countries

Hmmm, that might be seen to be impinging on people's human rights. :wink:

[Mike777]

Hay debaters :wink:

I myself will not be watching any of the games, this is not based on this thread.

From the beginning this has had nothing but a negative effect on everyone, i guess this will continue right to the very end.

As a professional in karate (which for some reason is not in the olympics, but wrestling and tae kwon do are.... STRANGE!!) I would take my boycotting further and not particpate.

On the subject of boycotting things, i don't drink coca cola or eat mcdonalds and other fast food joints.

[--------]

Ban ALL religion

Lets look at our appauling human rights issues before worrying about other countries


How you going to do that, chorley?

Going to put me in a concentration-camp for my beliefs?


That's what the Chinese government would do. :cool2:

[chorley_fm]

It may have been posted a little tongue in cheek.

History is littered with the wars and troubles caused by religion vrs religion.

However, as rightly said, people can do what ever and follow what ever God, religion they want.

Again, as posted before China's does have a long history of being complete Barstewrds to their own people and to those who borders their vast country.

I guess we are fortunate to have been born and raised in a semi civilized society where freedom of speech (such as this drivel :greengrin) can been seen and heard. (and ignored :blah: :agree:)

[Riz]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *snore* zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I feel asleep half way through that post

Your fast asleep constantly, sadly not everyone is going to wake up!

[Riz]

Does it!!!

maybe your pushing some people to support the games as your boring them by all this preaching! :greengrin:agree:

You see it as preaching because you refuse to see it as a good opinion. Im not a preacher, never claimed to be so Im not preaching.

[Riz]

On the subject of boycotting things, i don't drink coca cola or eat mcdonalds and other fast food joints.

Nor do I my friend, good for you!

[Riz]

Good to see a Scotsman over in Beijing clinbing up the lampost to support Tibet, great stuff and BRILLIANT WORK!

[Mike777]

Good to see a Scotsman over in Beijing clinbing up the lampost to support Tibet, great stuff and BRILLIANT WORK!

Noticed that too, excellent work lets hope he returns safe and well.

Did anyone read the article in the sun, on uk waste being shipped over to china.
OR...
The picture in todays Sun, of the two athletes wearing face masks.

[steakbake]

Hay debaters :wink:

I myself will not be watching any of the games, this is not based on this thread.

From the beginning this has had nothing but a negative effect on everyone, i guess this will continue right to the very end.

As a professional in karate (which for some reason is not in the olympics, but wrestling and tae kwon do are.... STRANGE!!) I would take my boycotting further and not particpate.

On the subject of boycotting things, i don't drink coca cola or eat mcdonalds and other fast food joints.


Same here. I also don't buy Israeli produce. I worry that if I add China to that list, I'd probably have to turf most of the stuff in my house, out.

[majorhibs]

Weel I won't be watching them.

They're on too late, most of what goes on doesn't interest me, and public-relations exercises on behalf of the sort of fascist thugs who run the People's Republic don't interest me.

Could someone PLEASE tell me why "The Olmypics" are considered such a good thing?

I mean, with the politics, and the drugs, and the raging nationalism, and all the rest of the crud surrounding them?

Or is that a question we're not supposed to ask? :cool2:

What in the world do you mean "is that a question were not supposed to ask"? I see your off on one o your knowitall crusades again, you know best & we should all listen to YOUR important opinions. I've always watched the olympics, always will, I enjoy watching athletes at the top of their games against each other, best athlete wins, watching the joy it brings them, the supporters & me as a spectator too, that includes ALL sports, Andy Murray the other night, Scotland at rugby, tour de france, golf, motorsports including my fav. MotoGP, in fact sport is the only thing I watch on TV, all sports I've even been known to spend some time watchin that 20/20 cricket if theres absolutely no snooker/darts or other sports alternative, but the Olympics, once every 4 years chance to watch the VERY best athletes on the planet competing against each other to the best of their abilities- oh no, no can do cos "Doddie" says he doesnt like it, & noone will ask the question cept the freedom fighter that is "doddie"? Take a hike! As another poster has pointed out, a lot of us do our bit for others in small ways we dont brag about, we also know were not goin to change how China does its business just by not watchin the olympics so will be watching it as weve done before, without being preached to by China or one or two above theirselves self appointed preachers, who know everything there is to know about the "drugs/politics/raging nationalism/crud" etc that us sheep dont ever see. Sorry, olympics for me.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I love the way it seems to be impossible to oppose or object to anything on moral or political grounds without being accused of preaching, pontificating and hand-wringing.

It works well in lieu of a cogent argument...

[hibsdaft]

of all people it was actually Sharon Davies that, for me, summed up the hypocricy of this debate-

why is it sportspeople who've prepared their whole lives for this one occasion that should do the boycotting of when British businneses make billions dealing with the Chinese (often by offshoring jobs in fact!) and this is never questioned for one second.

brilliant point, well made imo.

incidentally calling China communist is very misleading today as they gave up state led economics in the 70's, and only retain the authoritianism associated with communism today. its a neo-liberal economy today, where striking is illegal and there is massive and growing class inequality and rural children who've moved to the cities are only educated to the age of 11.

these changes are being increasing opposed (amidst massive oppresion) by the Chinese working class (particularly in rural areas) which is something we hear absolutely nothing about. contrast that with the obsession with Tibet and its a bit odd.

a better description of the current political setup in China today would be authoritarian caplitalist imo

that reporter Gary Mason off Newsnight has done some good stuff on internal Chinese dissent however and is well worth a deek:
http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2008/03/trade-union-workers-labour

[majorhibs]

I love the way it seems to be impossible to oppose or object to anything on moral or political grounds without being accused of preaching, pontificating and hand-wringing.

It works well in lieu of a cogent argument...

Your argument here seems to be boycott the olympics, therefore the athletes taking part, cos you dont like the country its coming from. the athletes, & the olympics which have been going on for longer than all of our lifetimes are to be boycotted, because of the country. Very cogent argument. some people just like the sound o their own voice too much, they never realise other people are expressin opinions as well, as for preaching, pontificating, hand wringing, well, you said it.

[LiverpoolHibs]

of all people it was actually Sharon Davies that, for me, summed up the hypocricy of this debate-

why is it sportspeople who've prepared their whole lives for this one occasion that should do the boycotting of when British businneses make billions dealing with the Chinese (often by offshoring jobs in fact!) and this is never questioned for one second.

brilliant point, well made imo.

incidentally calling China communist is very misleading today as they gave up state led economics in the 70's, and only retain the authoritianism associated with communism today. its a neo-liberal economy today, where striking is illegal and there is massive and growing class inequality and rural children who've moved to the cities are only educated to the age of 11.

these changes are being increasing opposed (amidst massive oppresion) by the Chinese working class (particularly in rural areas) which is something we hear absolutely nothing about. contrast that with the obsession with Tibet and its a bit odd.

a better description of the current political setup in China today would be authoritarian caplitalist imo

that reporter Gary Mason off Newsnight has done some good stuff on internal Chinese dissent however and is well worth a deek:
http://www.newstatesman.com/asia/2008/03/trade-union-workers-labour

The second part of your post is spot-on but I fail to see the logic of the Sharon Davies comment. Obviously business and government are complicit with the Chinese but that doesn't absolve anyone else from any moral culpability.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Your argument here seems to be boycott the olympics, therefore the athletes taking part, cos you dont like the country its coming from. the athletes, & the olympics which have been going on for longer than all of our lifetimes are to be boycotted, because of the country. Very cogent argument. some people just like the sound o their own voice too much, they never realise other people are expressin opinions as well, as for preaching, pontificating, hand wringing, well, you said it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

If you'll forgive me the terrible argumentative technique of evoking the Nazis, would you (in hindsight and with the understanding that it's slightly dubious to make a comparison between the Nazis and pretty much any other government in the history of the world) have been in favour of a boycott of the 1936 Olympics?

[majorhibs]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

If you'll forgive me the terrible argumentative technique of evoking the Nazis, would you (in hindsight and with the understanding that it's slightly dubious to make a comparison between the Nazis and pretty much any other government in the history of the world) have been in favour of a boycott of the 1936 Olympics?

If you'll forgive me, are you suggesting that China are goin to invade their neighbours in 3 years cos they've been given the olympics? You should be in Beijing representing team GB in the hot air contest, imo. In hindsight, mebbe's naw. Dinnae think you'd last the distance. Too hot-heeded & likely argue wi the other competitors, particularly the Asian ones. :wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

If you'll forgive me, are you suggesting that China are goin to invade their neighbours in 3 years cos they've been given the olympics? You should be in Beijing representing team GB in the hot air contest, imo. In hindsight, mebbe's naw. Dinnae think you'd last the distance. Too hot-heeded & likely argue wi the other competitors, particularly the Asian ones. :wink:

Obviously not. :confused:

I made the point of saying that it wasn't an entirely fair comparison, you didn't need to. I was merely trying to find out if you would (as I said, with the benefit of hindsight) have been in favour of a boycott of the 1936 Olympics. Or as I asked another poster, how you felt/feel about the sporting/cultural boycott of aparthied South Africa?

[majorhibs]

Obviously not. :confused:

I made the point of saying that it wasn't an entirely fair comparison, you didn't need to. I was merely trying to find out if you would (as I said, with the benefit of hindsight) have been in favour of a boycott of the 1936 Olympics. Or as I asked another poster, how you felt/feel about the sporting/cultural boycott of aparthied South Africa?

Seein as neither you nor I were present at the time of above events I see zilch relevence. Seein as neither you nor I are goin to be anywhere near Beijing in the next wee while, ditto. Methinks you & some o yer mates should stick to the politics boards, & leave us sports lovers in peace enjoyin our sports.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Seein as neither you nor I were present at the time of above events I see zilch relevence. Seein as neither you nor I are goin to be anywhere near Beijing in the next wee while, ditto. Methinks you & some o yer mates should stick to the politics boards, & leave us sports lovers in peace enjoyin our sports.

Going by your age, you were very much around for the sports boycott of S.A., not that it actually makes any difference to a hypothetical question whether we were or not. And we're on a board that is largely devoted to politics discussion.

[majorhibs]

Going by your age, you were very much around for the sports boycott of S.A., not that it actually makes any difference to a hypothetical question whether we were or not. And we're on a board that is largely devoted to politics discussion.

Largely devoted to politics discussion eh? Glad I'm in the pub, watchin the tic get beat fae Man City, I'll leave you & aw the other wannabe politicos who're gonnae change the world on Hibs.net to get on wi it. Adios, & dinnae ban to much when you seize power come the revolution, please.

[--------]

What in the world do you mean "is that a question were not supposed to ask"? I see your off on one o your knowitall crusades again, you know best & we should all listen to YOUR important opinions. I've always watched the olympics, always will, I enjoy watching athletes at the top of their games against each other, best athlete wins, watching the joy it brings them, the supporters & me as a spectator too, that includes ALL sports, Andy Murray the other night, Scotland at rugby, tour de france, golf, motorsports including my fav. MotoGP, in fact sport is the only thing I watch on TV, all sports I've even been known to spend some time watchin that 20/20 cricket if theres absolutely no snooker/darts or other sports alternative, but the Olympics, once every 4 years chance to watch the VERY best athletes on the planet competing against each other to the best of their abilities- oh no, no can do cos "Doddie" says he doesnt like it, & noone will ask the question cept the freedom fighter that is "doddie"? Take a hike! As another poster has pointed out, a lot of us do our bit for others in small ways we dont brag about, we also know were not goin to change how China does its business just by not watchin the olympics so will be watching it as weve done before, without being preached to by China or one or two above theirselves self appointed preachers, who know everything there is to know about the "drugs/politics/raging nationalism/crud" etc that us sheep dont ever see. Sorry, olympics for me.


Gotcha!

AAANNND breathe...... :devil:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Largely devoted to politics discussion eh? Glad I'm in the pub, watchin the tic get beat fae Man City, I'll leave you & aw the other wannabe politicos who're gonnae change the world on Hibs.net to get on wi it. Adios, & dinnae ban to much when you seize power come the revolution, please.

Carry on like this and you'll be first against the wall.

Yours,

Wolfie Smith.

:wink::greengrin

[Riz]

Carry on like this and you'll be first against the wall.

Yours,

Wolfie Smith.

:wink::greengrin

Would worry with him, the boys a bit of an idiot, one of those ones that shames you of being a Hibee, BUT entitled to his opinion, as corupt as some might feel it is.

tow the party line? ... id rather toe his ....

[hibsdaft]

can't see your point majorhibs, one person has suggested a boycott of the olympics and a load have disagreed with it (i'm more or less in that camp myself), some have agreed with it. its a discussion on politics, in a politics and general section of a messageboard, whats the big deal?


The second part of your post is spot-on but I fail to see the logic of the Sharon Davies comment. Obviously business and government are complicit with the Chinese but that doesn't absolve anyone else from any moral culpability.

aye, but theres only a fuss made about the sportspeople and not the other lot, which was her point (might not have expressed it very well for her above mind you)

[LiverpoolHibs]

aye, but theres only a fuss made about the sportspeople and not the other lot, which was her point (might not have expressed it very well for her above mind you)

Right, that's a good point then. It's not exactly suprising that unscrupulous big-business doesn't come under the media spotlight in the same way, it rarely does.

Is Sharon Davies a closet socialist, that's the question. :greengrin

[--------]

Largely devoted to politics discussion eh? Glad I'm in the pub, watchin the tic get beat fae Man City, I'll leave you & aw the other wannabe politicos who're gonnae change the world on Hibs.net to get on wi it. Adios, & dinnae ban to much when you seize power come the revolution, please.


Just so we're clear - the PRC executes more convicted criminals than any other country right now, and has done for a very long time.

The crimes for which the Chinese government kills people include writing graffiti on a wall, stealing a bicycle, or falsifying your tax returns.

Most of those executed are under 30 years of age. There's a reason for this - the bodies are dissected and the healthy organs sold on the transplant market. That's why the executions are by a bullet in the back of the skull - that method doesn't damage anything worth money.

These are NOT baseless allegations, but backed up by solid research by Amnesty International and other human rights organisations.

Right now people are in prison for no other reason than demanding answers as to why the government built primary schools so shoddily that they collapsed in the recent earthquake, killing hundreds - no, thousands of children. The people locked up are those children's grieving parents.

In Ancient Rome dissidents and petty criminals were killed in the Colosseum in front of huge crowds. That at least was honest. In Beijing the prisoners will go on being killed during the Games just the same, but out of sight of the cameras, to 'preserve deniability' and avoid upsetting the corporate sponsors. Bread and circuses, mate - to keep the proles quiet and preserve the status quo.

I'm glad you enjoy the Olympics - I'm sure you would have enjoyed them in 1936 if you'd been around. And no doubt you would have accepted unquestioningly the then German government's explanation as to why there were so few Jewish athletes in the German team. They weren't good enough because they were innately racially inferior to the Aryans, right?

I believe you can get the tape of the film of the Berlin Games from Amazon - it's called "Olympia", and it was directed by one Leni Riefenstahl. You can fast-forward during the long-jump.

You'll enjoy Riefenstahl's other blockbuster - "The Triumph of the Will."

[Hibrandenburg]

Just so we're clear - the PRC executes more convicted criminals than any other country right now, and has done for a very long time.

The crimes for which the Chinese government kills people include writing graffiti on a wall, stealing a bicycle, or falsifying your tax returns.

Most of those executed are under 30 years of age. There's a reason for this - the bodies are dissected and the healthy organs sold on the transplant market. That's why the executions are by a bullet in the back of the skull - that method doesn't damage anything worth money.

These are NOT baseless allegations, but backed up by solid research by Amnesty International and other human rights organisations.

Right now people are in prison for no other reason than demanding answers as to why the government built primary schools so shoddily that they collapsed in the recent earthquake, killing hundreds - no, thousands of children. The people locked up are those children's grieving parents.

In Ancient Rome dissidents and petty criminals were killed in the Colosseum in front of huge crowds. That at least was honest. In Beijing the prisoners will go on being killed during the Games just the same, but out of sight of the cameras, to 'preserve deniability' and avoid upsetting the corporate sponsors. Bread and circuses, mate - to keep the proles quiet and preserve the status quo.

I'm glad you enjoy the Olympics - I'm sure you would have enjoyed them in 1936 if you'd been around. And no doubt you would have accepted unquestioningly the then German government's explanation as to why there were so few Jewish athletes in the German team. They weren't good enough because they were innately racially inferior to the Aryans, right?

I believe you can get the tape of the film of the Berlin Games from Amazon - it's called "Olympia", and it was directed by one Leni Riefenstahl. You can fast-forward during the long-jump.

You'll enjoy Riefenstahl's other blockbuster - "The Triumph of the Will."

Oh god! Now we're Nazis because we enjoy athletics. :bitchy:

[--------]

Oh god! Now we're Nazis because we enjoy athletics. :bitchy:


Nope - just don't pretend that there's no human cost to your entertainment. :cool2:

[Hibrandenburg]

Nope - just don't pretend that there's no human cost to your entertainment. :cool2:

I'd argue that at least during the games the human loss will be reduced. As long as the world is looking at China they'll be trying to behave themselves and as a result my interest may actually save lives (for a while).

[--------]

I'd argue that at least during the games the human loss will be reduced. As long as the world is looking at China they'll be trying to behave themselves and as a result my interest may actually save lives (for a while).


That unfortunately just isn't true, mate. China isn't like Australia, where people ARE allowed to demonstrate and raise issues in public. It's a highly controlled society where everything relates to the preservation of the regime and the status quo.

I agree that individuals boycotting the TV coverage won't do much good now - China IMO should never have been allowed to have the Games, for any number of reasons - political, environmental, even for the sake of the athletes' health when you look at the smog they're going to be competing in.

The IOC is really only interested in making money. That, after all, is the way of the world and no one's going to change it. The Olympics, IMO, are abour corporate sponsorship and influence at high governmental levels for the fat-cats on the committee, dressed up in an 'ideal' that bleats about 'keeping politics out of sport' but has given the stamp of approval to some of the nastiest gangsters (political and commercial) in the history of the last 100 years.

Actually, if you haven't seen them, you might be interested to watch those two Riefenstahl films, just to see how she uses the same techniques to sell the 'Aryan Games' as she does to sell the Nuremberg Rally.

There's not a trace of irony or detachment in either film - she's consciously commending something utterly unspeakable as entertainment.

I won't be watching the Games myself - that's a personal choice. (I have three series of "The Wire" and two of "Homicide: Life on the Street" on the shelf that'll pass the time for me.) The Nazi reference was a response to the personal attack from majorhibs - not aimed at everyone generally. I'm sorry if it came over as if it were.

[Hibrandenburg]

That unfortunately just isn't true, mate. China isn't like Australia, where people ARE allowed to demonstrate and raise issues in public. It's a highly controlled society where everything relates to the preservation of the regime and the status quo.

I agree that individuals boycotting the TV coverage won't do much good now - China IMO should never have been allowed to have the Games, for any number of reasons - political, environmental, even for the sake of the athletes' health when you look at the smog they're going to be competing in.

The IOC is really only interested in making money. That, after all, is the way of the world and no one's going to change it. The Olympics, IMO, are abour corporate sponsorship and influence at high governmental levels for the fat-cats on the committee, dressed up in an 'ideal' that bleats about 'keeping politics out of sport' but has given the stamp of approval to some of the nastiest gangsters (political and commercial) in the history of the last 100 years.

Actually, if you haven't seen them, you might be interested to watch those two Riefenstahl films, just to see how she uses the same techniques to sell the 'Aryan Games' as she does to sell the Nuremberg Rally.

There's not a trace of irony or detachment in either film - she's consciously commending something utterly unspeakable as entertainment.

I won't be watching the Games myself - that's a personal choice. (I have three series of "The Wire" and two of "Homicide: Life on the Street" on the shelf that'll pass the time for me.) The Nazi reference was a response to the personal attack from majorhibs - not aimed at everyone generally. I'm sorry if it came over as if it were.

As always a well pieced together post and I agree with most of it, particularly the part about the IOC and that China should never have been given the games in the first place.

IMO I believe that a boycott would have been counter productive as it has proved to be in the past ala Russia and USA. The only way China will change is from within and outside meddling in their internal affairs will only harden their stance against change. There are enough examples of this happening in the last century alone.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't tell them what we think but they should not be forced into a corner and all possible channels of dialogue must remain open, including state visits during the games.

[--------]

As always a well pieced together post and I agree with most of it, particularly the part about the IOC and that China should never have been given the games in the first place.

IMO I believe that a boycott would have been counter productive as it has proved to be in the past ala Russia and USA. The only way China will change is from within and outside meddling in their internal affairs will only harden their stance against change. There are enough examples of this happening in the last century alone.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't tell them what we think but they should not be forced into a corner and all possible channels of dialogue must remain open, including state visits during the games.

Fair point - there are arguments on both sides.

I'm just not sure that dialogue's possible with the PRC....

[cocteautwin]

Don't wish to get in to any arguments here as there are 2 sides to every pagger.

But if anyone wants an opinion of China from someone who lives here . . . . . it's as close to living in heaven a young man can get on this planet.

Freedom from work . . . great birds . . . . friendly people . . . . hot chicks . . . . . great nightlife . . . . . as many fit chicks as you can handle . . . . . . . oh, did I mention the girls?


Woooohooo!!!!

[Riz]

Just so we're clear - the PRC executes more convicted criminals than any other country right now, and has done for a very long time.

The crimes for which the Chinese government kills people include writing graffiti on a wall, stealing a bicycle, or falsifying your tax returns.

Most of those executed are under 30 years of age. There's a reason for this - the bodies are dissected and the healthy organs sold on the transplant market. That's why the executions are by a bullet in the back of the skull - that method doesn't damage anything worth money.

These are NOT baseless allegations, but backed up by solid research by Amnesty International and other human rights organisations.

Right now people are in prison for no other reason than demanding answers as to why the government built primary schools so shoddily that they collapsed in the recent earthquake, killing hundreds - no, thousands of children. The people locked up are those children's grieving parents.

In Ancient Rome dissidents and petty criminals were killed in the Colosseum in front of huge crowds. That at least was honest. In Beijing the prisoners will go on being killed during the Games just the same, but out of sight of the cameras, to 'preserve deniability' and avoid upsetting the corporate sponsors. Bread and circuses, mate - to keep the proles quiet and preserve the status quo.

I'm glad you enjoy the Olympics - I'm sure you would have enjoyed them in 1936 if you'd been around. And no doubt you would have accepted unquestioningly the then German government's explanation as to why there were so few Jewish athletes in the German team. They weren't good enough because they were innately racially inferior to the Aryans, right?

I believe you can get the tape of the film of the Berlin Games from Amazon - it's called "Olympia", and it was directed by one Leni Riefenstahl. You can fast-forward during the long-jump.

You'll enjoy Riefenstahl's other blockbuster - "The Triumph of the Will."

A brilliant post, and sadly lost on many. Hes not saying your a Nazi for God sake, hes saying your turning a blind eye to the bigger picture due to either selfishness or simply not caring, or not knowing ... which is it?

[Riz]

That unfortunately just isn't true, mate. China isn't like Australia, where people ARE allowed to demonstrate and raise issues in public. It's a highly controlled society where everything relates to the preservation of the regime and the status quo..

Id disagree mate, when I was on tour in Australia last year alot of the crowd at my shows were Abo's and they were telling me a rather different story. One of the shows I did was in Cambera where they were all camped outside the parliment and constantly being attacked by the police, thrown onto the motorway in the dead of the night etc ... some really REAL stuff.

And hey, the powers that be have only just apologised for what happened many moons ago .. for some that apology is too late, for many that apolgy counts for nothing.

[Riz]

Don't wish to get in to any arguments here as there are 2 sides to every pagger.

But if anyone wants an opinion of China from someone who lives here . . . . . it's as close to living in heaven a young man can get on this planet.

Freedom from work . . . great birds . . . . friendly people . . . . hot chicks . . . . . great nightlife . . . . . as many fit chicks as you can handle . . . . . . . oh, did I mention the girls?


Woooohooo!!!!

I take it thats the well do do white part of the Chinese establishment. Thats the side I was offered when there and I rejected it to be with the real people where I believe I got a better impression and life experiance.

Slightly off topic but Bush yesterday talking about China and its illegal detention and prisons, Kudos to him for saying that, but erm ... Guantanamo Mr President? .... Oh and I see Bin ladens driver has been sentenced now????

So let me get this right he helped Bin Laden hide after 9/11 ... the same Bin Laden who is a CIA tactician, by the name of Tim Osman, trained and armed by the USA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan .... the best bit is ... on 9/11 Bin Laden was in a Saudi hospital on a kidney dialysis machine under CIA guard ... not conspiresy ... simple documented fact .... God this world would test the patience of a saint! :brickwall

[Sergio sledge]

I take it thats the well do do white part of the Chinese establishment. Thats the side I was offered when there and I rejected it to be with the real people where I believe I got a better impression and life experiance.

Slightly off topic but Bush yesterday talking about China and its illegal detention and prisons, Kudos to him for saying that, but erm ... Guantanamo Mr President? .... Oh and I see Bin ladens driver has been sentenced now????

So let me get this right he helped Bin Laden hide after 9/11 ... the same Bin Laden who is a CIA tactician, by the name of Tim Osman, trained and armed by the USA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan .... the best bit is ... on 9/11 Bin Laden was in a Saudi hospital on a kidney dialysis machine under CIA guard ... not conspiresy ... simple documented fact .... God this world would test the patience of a saint! :brickwall

Total thread hijack, but Bin Laden was supposedly in the UAE 2 months before 9/11 in "negotiations with" the CIA. On 9/11 he was actually rumoured to be in a hospital in Pakistan under Pakistani Military guard, not CIA guard. (Courtesy of various American news agencies) Shows its not "fact." :wink: Doesn't disguise the fact that despite him being on the FBI most wanted list, the CIA almost certainly knew where he was before 9/11 and didn't arrest him for whatever reason......

[majorhibs]

Oh god! Now we're Nazis because we enjoy athletics. :bitchy:

Nah, just me mate, I must be if I disagree wi the "riz & doddie" show, eh. :tee hee:

[--------]

Id disagree mate, when I was on tour in Australia last year alot of the crowd at my shows were Abo's and they were telling me a rather different story. One of the shows I did was in Cambera where they were all camped outside the parliment and constantly being attacked by the police, thrown onto the motorway in the dead of the night etc ... some really REAL stuff.

And hey, the powers that be have only just apologised for what happened many moons ago .. for some that apology is too late, for many that apology counts for nothing.

Point taken - it's a question how free we are in this country as well. Maybe what you were told in Australia means that anything like the Olympics has the same effect wherever - no country wants to be "shown up in the eyes of the world", so the police crack down on dissenters regardless.

The reactions of our own police (and the presence of the Chinese enforcers to back them up) when the torch was being touted round London earlier this year would suggest that anyone looking to demonstrate in London in 2012 may very well get the same treatment....

[Hibrandenburg]

Quote Riz A brilliant post, and sadly lost on many. Hes not saying your a Nazi for God sake, hes saying your turning a blind eye to the bigger picture due to either selfishness or simply not caring, or not knowing ... which is it?

You're begining to sound like George W Bush. "If you're not with us then you're against us." There are other alternatives to the problem and IMO you're strategy of poking a stick in the hornets nest is not the right one to be used when dealing with China.



I take it thats the well do do white part of the Chinese establishment. Thats the side I was offered when there and I rejected it to be with the real people where I believe I got a better impression and life experiance.

Slightly off topic but Bush yesterday talking about China and its illegal detention and prisons, Kudos to him for saying that, but erm ... Guantanamo Mr President? .... Oh and I see Bin ladens driver has been sentenced now????

So let me get this right he helped Bin Laden hide after 9/11 ... the same Bin Laden who is a CIA tactician, by the name of Tim Osman, trained and armed by the USA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan .... the best bit is ... on 9/11 Bin Laden was in a Saudi hospital on a kidney dialysis machine under CIA guard ... not conspiresy ... simple documented fact .... God this world would test the patience of a saint! :brickwall


Always the same with you isn't it. What you believe to be fact is fact and if others hold another opinion that contradicts yours, then it's all bull****. Well here's a fact, not all your facts are facts.

[cocteautwin]

So let me get this right he helped Bin Laden hide after 9/11 ... the same Bin Laden who is a CIA tactician, by the name of Tim Osman, trained and armed by the USA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan .... the best bit is ... on 9/11 Bin Laden was in a Saudi hospital on a kidney dialysis machine under CIA guard ... not conspiresy ... simple documented fact .... God this world would test the patience of a saint! :brickwall

This thread is a wind up, right?

I will always listen to both sides of an argument . . . . . up until a certain point.

If you, in your heart, believe this, then I urge you to seek help. Don't ask new friends who might have influenced your recent opinions and views but seek help from your oldest friends and family.

Have I missed something or do we have a "Grade A" nutter here?

[Sumner]

one will be choosing to boycott because they're P1SH

- fine time to gets some dvds watched :agree:

[LiverpoolHibs]

This thread is a wind up, right?

I will always listen to both sides of an argument . . . . . up until a certain point.

If you, in your heart, believe this, then I urge you to seek help. Don't ask new friends who might have influenced your recent opinions and views but seek help from your oldest friends and family.

Have I missed something or do we have a "Grade A" nutter here?

It's safe to say Riz enjoys a (more than) slightly dubious conspiracy theory or two. :wink:

[cocteautwin]

It's safe to say Riz enjoys a (more than) slightly dubious conspiracy theory or two. :wink:

Too much X-files when he was younger me thinks.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I certainly won't be going, futhermore, I refuse to use any products made in China, including this comp

[Riz]

Too much X-files when he was younger me thinks.

This bull**** infuriates me ... its easy no name call but its not easy to do your homework. The only conspiresy here is how utterly brainwashed some of you are. If its not fed to you by your illustrious leaders or fantastically accurate newspapers then it cant be true. And LiverpoolHibs , you should know better. Bin Ladens not a terrorist at all. Infact he is probably dead, and dead a long time ago, with his name still being used like the bogieman to scare people .... look into the Tonken Incident, Operation Northwood, The Riechstag Fire, Building Number 7 on 9/11, look at the Madrid bombimg and how it was admitted it was a guy from thr Spannish Bomb squad, look at the facts behind 7/7, look and the isnide tradings and tip offs , infact look in the mirror and ask yourself!!

As for the XFiles, I dont like it and never have done. You have just described a fantastic example of media conditioning. You need some shampoo to go with that head rince!

[LiverpoolHibs]

This bull**** infuriates me ... its easy no name call but its not easy to do your homework. The only conspiresy here is how utterly brainwashed some of you are. If its not fed to you by your illustrious leaders or fantastically accurate newspapers then it cant be true. And LiverpoolHibs , you should know better. Bin Ladens not a terrorist at all. Infact he is probably dead, and dead a long time ago, with his name still being used like the bogieman to scare people .... look into the Tonken Incident, Operation Northwood, The Riechstag Fire, Building Number 7 on 9/11, look at the Madrid bombimg and how it was admitted it was a guy from thr Spannish Bomb squad, look at the facts behind 7/7, look and the isnide tradings and tip offs , infact look in the mirror and ask yourself!!

As for the XFiles, I dont like it and never have done. You have just described a fantastic example of media conditioning. You need some shampoo to go with that head rince!

I'm a socialist not a conspiracy theorist. They aren't really necessary.

[Riz]

there shouldnt be a difference... Im not a conspiresy theorist either. What Im dealing with is Global affairs and the results of what these people carry out. Check out some of the thing Pilger has said on the matter.

ANYWAY ... off an a tangent, sorry... This is about the Olympics!

[Hiber-nation]

there shouldnt be a difference... Im not a conspiresy theorist either. What Im dealing with is Global affairs and the results of what these people carry out. Check out some of the thing Pilger has said on the matter.

ANYWAY ... off an a tangent, sorry... This is about the Olympics!

Opening ceremony's no bad eh?

:duck:

[Sergio sledge]

This bull**** infuriates me


... its easy no name call


utterly brainwashed some of you are.

:wink:


If its not fed to you by your illustrious leaders or fantastically accurate newspapers then it cant be true.

Ah yes, of course, we're all brainwashed by the media because we don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job......:rolleyes:

I suppose you've done all your own research, never relying on the research of others, been out to Afghanistan, seen Osama Bin Laden's, sorry Tim Osman's body, and his CIA identity card. You have done a detailed structural and physical examination of the twin towers and Tower 7's collapses, and decided from your extensive knowledge of plane inpacts that they couldn't have collapsed because of the plane impact. I guess you were also there when Bin Lad...sorry Tim Osman was in the Saudi/Pakistani hospital under CIA guard.

Just like we have formed our opinions based on newspaper reports, eyewitness accounts etc.... You have done the same, so how come we are the brainwashed ones? Why are you so absolutely certain that the opinions that you have read are right and the ones that we have read are wrong? Unless you have seen the things for yourself you can be no more certain of these things than we can....


look into the Tonken Incident, Operation Northwood, The Riechstag Fire, Building Number 7 on 9/11, look at the Madrid bombimg and how it was admitted it was a guy from thr Spannish Bomb squad,

Whats that got to do with anything? If the rumours are true, all it does is back up the fact that Hitler was evil, and prepared to do anything to get what he wanted. I don't see how it has any bearing on anything being discussed here.


look at the facts behind 7/7

Lets see them then?

[cocteautwin]

This bull**** infuriates me ... its easy no name call but its not easy to do your homework. The only conspiresy here is how utterly brainwashed some of you are. If its not fed to you by your illustrious leaders or fantastically accurate newspapers then it cant be true. And LiverpoolHibs , you should know better. Bin Ladens not a terrorist at all. Infact he is probably dead, and dead a long time ago, with his name still being used like the bogieman to scare people .... look into the Tonken Incident, Operation Northwood, The Riechstag Fire, Building Number 7 on 9/11, look at the Madrid bombimg and how it was admitted it was a guy from thr Spannish Bomb squad, look at the facts behind 7/7, look and the isnide tradings and tip offs , infact look in the mirror and ask yourself!!

As for the XFiles, I dont like it and never have done. You have just described a fantastic example of media conditioning. You need some shampoo to go with that head rince!

Get help mate. Before it's too late. Cuckoo, completely cuckoo.

[Riz]

Altho I agree with you that I contridicted myself by mentioning name calling then I name called you, I apologise for that.

I am sick however of being made out to be some sort of David Icke on Wogan figure for believeing that 9/11 and 7/7 were DEFINETLY inside jobs. I however dont have the time nor the inclination to get into this AGAIN, (which Im sure will come as a welcome relief to some), it is my firm and unshakable belief that they were inside jobs and the vale is firml over many peoples eyes funded by a capitalist corporate media that is anything from a free press. We are living in a Global dictatorship and we are even aware of it. I would ask you to disprove what I say rather than me having to prove what is, after you look at the bigger picture, clear as day.

As I said again tho, feel free to contact me direct or on another thread as this is about China and the Olympics and I dont want this going anymore of course than it has already.



This bull**** infuriates me





:wink:



Ah yes, of course, we're all brainwashed by the media because we don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job......:rolleyes:

I suppose you've done all your own research, never relying on the research of others, been out to Afghanistan, seen Osama Bin Laden's, sorry Tim Osman's body, and his CIA identity card. You have done a detailed structural and physical examination of the twin towers and Tower 7's collapses, and decided from your extensive knowledge of plane inpacts that they couldn't have collapsed because of the plane impact. I guess you were also there when Bin Lad...sorry Tim Osman was in the Saudi/Pakistani hospital under CIA guard.

Just like we have formed our opinions based on newspaper reports, eyewitness accounts etc.... You have done the same, so how come we are the brainwashed ones? Why are you so absolutely certain that the opinions that you have read are right and the ones that we have read are wrong? Unless you have seen the things for yourself you can be no more certain of these things than we can....



Whats that got to do with anything? If the rumours are true, all it does is back up the fact that Hitler was evil, and prepared to do anything to get what he wanted. I don't see how it has any bearing on anything being discussed here.



Lets see them then?

[Riz]

Get help mate. Before it's too late. Cuckoo, completely cuckoo.

Would you say the firemen/police and the family of the firemen/police that died on 9/11 are mad too? As the over 80% of them believe it was an inside job. Hundreds of thousands around the world believe it is, mate get your head out of the pepers and do your own research...it might just surprise you. Its easy to name call and if you continue to do so this is the last reply you will get from me, its harder to do you own work but the hardest thing is often the best path.

[cocteautwin]

Would you say the firemen/police and the family of the firemen/police that died on 9/11 are mad too? As the over 80% of them believe it was an inside job. Hundreds of thousands around the world believe it is, mate get your head out of the pepers and do your own research...it might just surprise you. Its easy to name call and if you continue to do so this is the last reply you will get from me, its harder to do you own work but the hardest thing is often the best path.

I'm not caling you names, I'm trying to help you. I have an old friend who started off like you with these crazy thoughts and ideas and is now a virtual vegetable, convinced that the CIA are after him and the communist party are watching him. Can you take medicine for paranoid delusion?

[Riz]

I'm not caling you names, I'm trying to help you. I have an old friend who started off like you with these crazy thoughts and ideas and is now a virtual vegetable, convinced that the CIA are after him and the communist party are watching him. Can you take medicine for paranoid delusion?

Thanks for your concern but Im ok, I already have been arrested twice for terrorism charges on my way home from a gig in Italy and one from New York, and been threatened with an asbo and my music is on the BBC banned playlist so...if I was overly paranoid its understandable. Personally I wouldnt be taking no medicine .. probably full of mercury :greengrin

You never know... what your friend says might just be true.

[cocteautwin]

:hahaha:


You never know... what your friend says might just be true.

[Riz]

:hahaha:

Your aware I was being a bit tongue and cheek ... what does he do, did he do?

[Gatecrasher]

so your priorities are more...

1, me
2, Myself
3, I
4, Anything that effects me

:greengrin


IMO theres nothing wrong with being a bit selfish.

FWIW i feel life is to short to be worrying about things i have no power to do anything about and i think we have to trust our Gov to do the right thing as the people of this country vote them to do that.


although i agree with about 5% of what you actually post Riz one thing i do respect is that you stick by your guns.

GGTTH

[LiverpoolHibs]

IMO theres nothing wrong with being a bit selfish.

FWIW i feel life is to short to be worrying about things i have no power to do anything about and i think we have to trust our Gov to do the right thing as the people of this country vote them to do that.

No offence intended, but that is hopelessly naive.

[RyeSloan]

Altho I agree with you that I contridicted myself by mentioning name calling then I name called you, I apologise for that.

I am sick however of being made out to be some sort of David Icke on Wogan figure for believeing that 9/11 and 7/7 were DEFINETLY inside jobs. I however dont have the time nor the inclination to get into this AGAIN, (which Im sure will come as a welcome relief to some), it is my firm and unshakable belief that they were inside jobs and the vale is firml over many peoples eyes funded by a capitalist corporate media that is anything from a free press. We are living in a Global dictatorship and we are even aware of it. I would ask you to disprove what I say rather than me having to prove what is, after you look at the bigger picture, clear as day.

As I said again tho, feel free to contact me direct or on another thread as this is about China and the Olympics and I dont want this going anymore of course than it has already.

Surely the media is more open than ever when you consider blog boards like this, the simplicity of making your own films, newspapers etc or how certain joke or prank e-mails can spread around the world in hours.
Look at the old school media blackouts that have failed in recent years to see evidence that a global media conspiracy is not only a tired old excuse to cover over the cracks of conspiracies but is in fact simply not possible in any practical sense.

Your OP may not have been something I agree with as I am a firm believer in engagement not withdrawal as the way to change your 'enemies' ways but you have let yourself down by veering off into claiming we are all brainwashed and fooled by a complicit media and governement because you believe certain things that we don't even when the vast majority have seen all of the evidence you claim the dark forces are surppresing....unless of course Mulder has loaned you some of his top secret files.

[Gatecrasher]

No offence intended, but that is hopelessly naive.


no offence taken, just my opinion though

i can honestly say i dont lie in bed at night worrying about tibet, iraq or anything else like that. that doesnt make me a bad person though.

fair play to those who do something i just dont think the olympics is the time or place

[--------]

Would you say the firemen/police and the family of the firemen/police that died on 9/11 are mad too? As the over 80% of them believe it was an inside job. Hundreds of thousands around the world believe it is, mate get your head out of the pepers and do your own research...it might just surprise you. Its easy to name call and if you continue to do so this is the last reply you will get from me, its harder to do you own work but the hardest thing is often the best path.


Riz, that's exactly the sort of unsubstantiated allegation conspiracy theorists throw out and expect the rest of us to accept without challenge.

Over 80% of the fireman and police who died on 9/11 and over 80% of their families believe that the US federal government was behind the bombing?

One - where did you find this statistic? If it was in a book by a conspiracy-theorist, where did he or she get it? Who did the survey? Who asked the questions? Were they from an independent body, or did they have an axe to grind? Did they interview all the firemen, all the police? Are they quoting immedite family - wives, children, parents? Or are they including cousins, grandparents, in-laws? How far up the family tree did they climb tio get this figure? Prove this is an accurate figure drawn from a reputable source, or it means nothing at all.

Two - 'doing your own research' sounds grand, but if you're only reading secondary sources, it means nothing. Most conspiracy theorists can quote long lists of sources, but when you look closely at those sources, none of them are based on original research or foundation documents. They're all based on other secondary documents - hearsay evidence as opposed to eye-witness, if you like. And you have to watch that all these secondary sources aren't all quoting one another as authorities - A,B,C,D,and E all make the same allegations, but A quotes B,C,D, and E as evidence; B quotes A,C,D and E; C quotes A,B,D and E, and so on.... And none of them have any real solid evidence upon which to base their allegations - only hearsay and speculation.

Three - the credentials of 'expert' witnesses have to be examined and questioned. Not everyone who claims to be a dmolition or explosives expert actually is one. Until you verify the credentials of a witness, that witness's evidence is by definition not to be trusted.

There's a guy called Robin Gardiner who wrote a book claiming to prove that in 1911 the White Star Line sank 'Titanic' deliberately in an insurance scam - that the ship wasn't 'Titanic' but her sister-ship 'Olympic', and that the whole thing went horribly wrong because of the stupidity of one of the conspirators. (Owners do sink their own ships deliberately from time to time - the legal term for the offence is 'barratry', so it isn't beyond all the bounds of possibility that White Star did what Gardiner says they did.)

His thesis sounds very plausible, but it's all based on secondary sources and hearsay. It doesn't work, because there are photographs (verifiable) of mahogany and walnut panelling removed from 'Olympic' when she was broken up in the 1930's which carries the name of the 'Olympic' and her yard number from Harland & Wolff. The photographs were take during the break-up of the ship. The panelling was sold to a hotel chain and put into the public rooms of their hotels.

There's a lot more evidence which Gardiner simply ignores, all making it very clear that there was no conspiracy. Or if there was, it wasn't the one Gardiner made up.

You could possibly be right about the third tower, riz, but if I were you I'd be a bit more careful about which witnesses you believe and what figures and statistics you accept. Right now, I don't believe your 80% figure, and I'd be interested to know where it comes from.

But if your sources can't cite a named research body sending representatives at a specific date to ask specific people specific questions which elicited specific answers, then that evidence doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I'm sorry - it's nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation.

Just because Bush and Blair used 9/11 to prosecute an illegal and immoral war doesn't mean that 9/11 wasn't a genuine terrorist attack.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Just because Bush and Blair used 9/11 to prosecute an illegal and immoral war doesn't mean that 9/11 wasn't a genuine terrorist attack.

Precisely. Charlie Brooker (second time I've posted him today) on 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/14/september11.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=global

[Allant1981]

Good to see a Scotsman over in Beijing clinbing up the lampost to support Tibet, great stuff and BRILLIANT WORK!


Does this mean he has a criminal record?

As for the games themselves I shall be watching them as I am interested in athletics, I have every sympathy for those who were made homeless etc but as it does not directly involve me, my wife or my soon to be baby then I'm sorry but I can't say I worry about it to much, if this makes me selfish in your eyes then so be it but my family are my only concern

[Dashing Bob S]

i think Tibet gets too favourable a press, there is no objectivity.

when there were what was effectively race riots with random chinese getting beaten to death on the streets for no reason back in march all you heard was "poor tibet poor tibet", eh wtf?

it was no difference to the LA riots of 91

aye in both instances you can understand the rage and when that rage is unleashed its going to be ugly, but there was no critisicm or analysis, totally ridiculous reporting.

now today we have what imo is arguably a fairer bit of violence, against an undemocratic authoritarean state (rather than civilians) and its being reported more like a terrorist attck.

i just think cos the west likes to think of these buddhists as being all cute and harmless that we lose all objectivity. if you kill a random on the street and its out of order whereever the **** you're from.

as for that dalai lama i think its another joke religious figure and he's given far too lenient a press. i am no expert but i understand that his predecessors from before Chinese rule were a shower of ruthless oppressive *******s too.

i'd like to hear more about the chinese like the thousands evicted from their homes for the Games and the rural people who have moved to the city and who are not given the same access to education etc, they never get their moments press which i find strange.

and don't get me wrong i feel sorry for Tibet and tibetans and hope that they get their freedom and that, but lets not lose all objectivity and balance in the meantime.

Totally agree. The Dali Lahma is a fuedal crypto-fascist who has conned a lot of gullible and spiritually vacuous overpaid American actors and other Holywood types into supporting his cause and pumping himself up in the process. If Tibet's 'freedom' comes with this jumped-up Eastern version of Viz Comic's Spolit ******* in the package, then they can achieve it without my support.

[Dashing Bob S]

Would you say the firemen/police and the family of the firemen/police that died on 9/11 are mad too? As the over 80% of them believe it was an inside job. Hundreds of thousands around the world believe it is, mate get your head out of the pepers and do your own research...it might just surprise you. Its easy to name call and if you continue to do so this is the last reply you will get from me, its harder to do you own work but the hardest thing is often the best path.

Anybody who thinks the US government had nothing at all to do with 9/11 is seriously deluded.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Dashing Bob S]

Riz, that's exactly the sort of unsubstantiated allegation conspiracy theorists throw out and expect the rest of us to accept without challenge.

Over 80% of the fireman and police who died on 9/11 and over 80% of their families believe that the US federal government was behind the bombing?

One - where did you find this statistic? If it was in a book by a conspiracy-theorist, where did he or she get it? Who did the survey? Who asked the questions? Were they from an independent body, or did they have an axe to grind? Did they interview all the firemen, all the police? Are they quoting immedite family - wives, children, parents? Or are they including cousins, grandparents, in-laws? How far up the family tree did they climb tio get this figure? Prove this is an accurate figure drawn from a reputable source, or it means nothing at all.

Two - 'doing your own research' sounds grand, but if you're only reading secondary sources, it means nothing. Most conspiracy theorists can quote long lists of sources, but when you look closely at those sources, none of them are based on original research or foundation documents. They're all based on other secondary documents - hearsay evidence as opposed to eye-witness, if you like. And you have to watch that all these secondary sources aren't all quoting one another as authorities - A,B,C,D,and E all make the same allegations, but A quotes B,C,D, and E as evidence; B quotes A,C,D and E; C quotes A,B,D and E, and so on.... And none of them have any real solid evidence upon which to base their allegations - only hearsay and speculation.

Three - the credentials of 'expert' witnesses have to be examined and questioned. Not everyone who claims to be a dmolition or explosives expert actually is one. Until you verify the credentials of a witness, that witness's evidence is by definition not to be trusted.

There's a guy called Robin Gardiner who wrote a book claiming to prove that in 1911 the White Star Line sank 'Titanic' deliberately in an insurance scam - that the ship wasn't 'Titanic' but her sister-ship 'Olympic', and that the whole thing went horribly wrong because of the stupidity of one of the conspirators. (Owners do sink their own ships deliberately from time to time - the legal term for the offence is 'barratry', so it isn't beyond all the bounds of possibility that White Star did what Gardiner says they did.)

His thesis sounds very plausible, but it's all based on secondary sources and hearsay. It doesn't work, because there are photographs (verifiable) of mahogany and walnut panelling removed from 'Olympic' when she was broken up in the 1930's which carries the name of the 'Olympic' and her yard number from Harland & Wolff. The photographs were take during the break-up of the ship. The panelling was sold to a hotel chain and put into the public rooms of their hotels.

There's a lot more evidence which Gardiner simply ignores, all making it very clear that there was no conspiracy. Or if there was, it wasn't the one Gardiner made up.

You could possibly be right about the third tower, riz, but if I were you I'd be a bit more careful about which witnesses you believe and what figures and statistics you accept. Right now, I don't believe your 80% figure, and I'd be interested to know where it comes from.

But if your sources can't cite a named research body sending representatives at a specific date to ask specific people specific questions which elicited specific answers, then that evidence doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I'm sorry - it's nothing more than unsubstantiated speculation.

Just because Bush and Blair used 9/11 to prosecute an illegal and immoral war doesn't mean that 9/11 wasn't a genuine terrorist attack.


This film provides plenty of hard evidence.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

I'm not generally big on conspiracy theories, but this made very uncomfortable viewing. Now many Americans I meet travelling with work seem to accept it as orthodox. (Ignore the first twenty minutes on organised religion, interesting scene setting, but then it goes on to produce strong evidence.

[Sergio sledge]

This film provides plenty of hard evidence.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

I'm not generally big on conspiracy theories, but this made very uncomfortable viewing. Now many Americans I meet travelling with work seem to accept it as orthodox. (Ignore the first twenty minutes on organised religion, interesting scene setting, but then it goes on to produce strong evidence.

This film is exactly what Doddie was reffering to with his paragraph about sources:


Two - 'doing your own research' sounds grand, but if you're only reading secondary sources, it means nothing. Most conspiracy theorists can quote long lists of sources, but when you look closely at those sources, none of them are based on original research or foundation documents. They're all based on other secondary documents - hearsay evidence as opposed to eye-witness, if you like. And you have to watch that all these secondary sources aren't all quoting one another as authorities - A,B,C,D,and E all make the same allegations, but A quotes B,C,D, and E as evidence; B quotes A,C,D and E; C quotes A,B,D and E, and so on.... And none of them have any real solid evidence upon which to base their allegations - only hearsay and speculation.

See the sources page (http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm) for the movie, and look at the 9/11 section.....

Not one single piece of original research, or new evidence, all this films sources are from "conspiracy" books or films, and all the sources are very vague. If I put sources like that into a uni essay I'd be hung drawn and quartered.

If the people who made this film were so certain of their sources, why not put exact detail in eg. page numbers, and why quote 9/11 conspiracy books at all, why not go to the original source to give themselves credibility.

This is only my opinion, but the main resons behind people putting vague sources into documents or research are; laziness and if the sources are falsified or not credible. If I wanted to make up a source for some "evidence" all I need to do is put the reference to be in a 1000 page book with no page numbers. Almost certainly the person looking at it will not bother to read every single page of the book to try to find the reference.

I'm not saying that all the claims are false, but if they had been really certain of what they were claiming and really intent on making a credible movie based on fact, then they should have at least tried to make their references complete.

[marinello59]

Thanks for your concern but Im ok, I already have been arrested twice for terrorism charges on my way home from a gig in Italy and one from New York, and been threatened with an asbo and my music is on the BBC banned playlist so...if I was overly paranoid its understandable. Personally I wouldnt be taking no medicine .. probably full of mercury :greengrin

You never know... what your friend says might just be true.

Holy cr@p. Just how bad is your music? :greengrin

[Riz]

lol

You tell me lol, below is a link to the video on myspace

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=36281069

And heres one for youtube

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw9UPd4Q4o0

As for asking me for sources, yeh Ive seen Zeitguest, some interesting, some not, some a bit over the top, but good veiwing all the same. What gets me tho is what some people would consider hard evidence is what another would consider weak evidence, personally I wouldnt trust the guardian or any mainstream newspaper, the same as I wouldnt trust the BBC 1 iota! I mean for Gos sake, they told us of WTC7 collapsing before it had even came down.

All same, I wont be watching the Olympics.

[Allant1981]

lol

You tell me lol, below is a link to the video on myspace

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=36281069

And heres one for youtube

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw9UPd4Q4o0

As for asking me for sources, yeh Ive seen Zeitguest, some interesting, some not, some a bit over the top, but good veiwing all the same. What gets me tho is what some people would consider hard evidence is what another would consider weak evidence, personally I wouldnt trust the guardian or any mainstream newspaper, the same as I wouldnt trust the BBC 1 iota! I mean for Gos sake, they told us of WTC7 collapsing before it had even came down.

All same, I wont be watching the Olympics.



Very gripping vidoes, only thing that spoils it is the bad rapping, background music or something would have made it strike home more IMO

[Riz]

Very gripping vidoes, only thing that spoils it is the bad rapping, background music or something would have made it strike home more IMO

lol "the bad rapping" away an boil yer heed mate .... :thumbsup: I think 42,000 veiws might disagree lol.

[Allant1981]

lol "the bad rapping" away an boil yer heed mate .... :thumbsup: I think 42,000 veiws might disagree lol.


As i said i thought the video itself was very gripping but the bad rapping was putting me off, i take it that the "rapper" is urself

[Riz]

As i said i thought the video itself was very gripping but the bad rapping was putting me off, i take it that the "rapper" is urself

Considering its my music video and my record label, lol, then the answer is yes. Different strokes for different folks .... maybe you just dont like Scottish Hip Hop, many do, but its not really pushed well enough as other music here in the Scotland or the UK as a whole, hence the reason I sell more of myself and my other artists outside the UK.

................ANYWAY BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS!

[Allant1981]

Considering its my music video and my record label, lol, then the answer is yes. Different strokes for different folks .... maybe you just dont like Scottish Hip Hop, many do, but its not really pushed well enough as other music here in the Scotland or the UK as a whole, hence the reason I sell more of myself and my other artists outside the UK.

................ANYWAY BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS!


I listen to anything just didn't think that it was right for that video, I'm currently watching the gymnastics

[Riz]

I listen to anything just didn't think that it was right for that video, I'm currently watching the gymnastics

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:

[RyeSloan]

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:

Poor very poor...:tsk tsk:

[Loobrush]

my priorities are

football
cars
music
work

i couldnt give a **** about the rest.



I'm not entirely sure why you are even posting in this thread. :confused:

[Allant1981]

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:


As you usualyy take the moral highground with everyone I do hope this was said in jest, disgusting thing to say

[cabbageandribs1875]

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:






Dear o dear o dear

[Riz]

Poor very poor...:tsk tsk:

So noone saw the rollocking that was handed out on the comedy tv quiz show "Mock the weak" when one of the guests detroyed the presenter as he said he was a fan of the Olympics and would be watching it to which the comedian replied "...your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise... " to which the presenter was utterly clamped and twas rather funny at the time, kinda had to be there then I guess. I see how it looks now looking back so I apologise. Was a funny come back on the show ...kinda lost its way here tho.

On another note, I liked or rather didnt like the story about how one of the songs in the opening ceremony were actually mimed?!!! Some 7 year old girl sung it but the Chinese officials believed she wasent the right "image" for China ... bit ***** on the poor lass. So near but so far, anywhere else she would go onto to be the, erm, the Michelle MacManus of China?

Apparently alot of it was also CGI and what you saw there wasent what you saw at home and Peter Gabriels stage team are annoyed as the "walking rounf the globe" was done by them on a Genisus tour?

[Allant1981]

So noone saw the rollocking that was handed out on the comedy tv quiz show "Mock the weak" when one of the guests detroyed the presenter as he said he was a fan of the Olympics and would be watching it to which the comedian replied "...your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise... " to which the presenter was utterly clamped and twas rather funny at the time, kinda had to be there then I guess. I see how it looks now looking back so I apologise. Was a funny come back on the show ...kinda lost its way here tho.


Apology accepted

[Riz]

Yeh I kinda just read that back there and despite the fact it was ment in jehst I can see how it looked out of order, apologies again.

I put the smilie in to ill efect.

Franky Boyle was the dudes name.

[RyeSloan]

Yeh I kinda just read that back there and despite the fact it was ment in jehst I can see how it looked out of order, apologies again.

I put the smilie in to ill efect.

Franky Boyle was the dudes name.

Frankie Boyle is totally class but his humour is very close to the bone and I doubt few can pull off what he does without offending people...I wouldnae bother trying in future :wink:

[RyeSloan]

So noone saw the rollocking that was handed out on the comedy tv quiz show "Mock the weak" when one of the guests detroyed the presenter as he said he was a fan of the Olympics and would be watching it to which the comedian replied "...your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise... " to which the presenter was utterly clamped and twas rather funny at the time, kinda had to be there then I guess. I see how it looks now looking back so I apologise. Was a funny come back on the show ...kinda lost its way here tho.

On another note, I liked or rather didnt like the story about how one of the songs in the opening ceremony were actually mimed?!!! Some 7 year old girl sung it but the Chinese officials believed she wasent the right "image" for China ... bit ***** on the poor lass. So near but so far, anywhere else she would go onto to be the, erm, the Michelle MacManus of China?

Apparently alot of it was also CGI and what you saw there wasent what you saw at home and Peter Gabriels stage team are annoyed as the "walking rounf the globe" was done by them on a Genisus tour?

Hooo bet that has the Chinese worried.............

[Riz]

Hooo bet that has the Chinese worried.............

Similar to my thoughts ... as for Franky Boyle, yeh I will leave that one to mates in the pub rather than strangers in a forum where its hard at the best of times to put across the meaning without smilies.

[Barman Stanton]

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:

Saw this on Mock The Week as well, was very funny indeed. FWIW it was pretty obvious whether you saw the show or not that you intended it as a joke. People are just picking up on anything for arguments sake.

[Hibrandenburg]

Saw this on Mock The Week as well, was very funny indeed. FWIW it was pretty obvious whether you saw the show or not that you intended it as a joke. People are just picking up on anything for arguments sake.

Oh no we're not!

[Riz]

[/B]

Oh no we're not!

LOL

:stirrer:

[--------]

Saw this on Mock The Week as well, was very funny indeed. FWIW it was pretty obvious whether you saw the show or not that you intended it as a joke. People are just picking up on anything for arguments sake.


At risk of being accused of pedantry, Sir Albert, might I point out that "argument's sake" should have the apostrophe? :cool2:

No' lookin' for an argument, like.... :wink:

[Barman Stanton]

At risk of being accused of pedantry, Sir Albert, might I point out that "argument's sake" should have the apostrophe? :cool2:

No' lookin' for an argument, like.... :wink:

Point taken. But a wee apostrophe missing now and again never hurt anyone. :cool2:

[--------]

Point taken. But a wee apostrophe missing now and again never hurt anyone. :cool2:


REALLY????????? I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :grr:















:devil:

[steakbake]

Lol, you didnt think that the video that was made for the music went?? Hmmm aye very good. Also, your watching the gymnatics, noone told you that watching that makes you a peado in disguise :thumbsup:

Boyle said that watching gymnastics was "paedophilia for cowards".

I don't think he's funny, but I doubt he'd lose any sleep over that.

[Mikey_1875]

Whats that got to do with anything? If the rumours are true, all it does is back up the fact that Hitler was evil, and prepared to do anything to get what he wanted. I don't see how it has any bearing on anything being discussed here.




Sorry for dragging up something form old pages but just read this just now. The connection between 9/11 and the Reichstag fire is that alledgedly the Reichstag fire was a inside job so Hitler could scare the Germans against the communists and he could easily pass through rules that partly breach human rights, search houses without warrant, listen to phonecalls of public. The same thing (if 9/11 was a inside job) applies to the american government if this was a inside job it was used to scare the American people into passing through the department of homeland security laws eg. searchng houses without warrant, arrest and detainment without explanation only being touted as "a terrorist." It is said that Hitler used this too start full control of his country going into full control of the world and people say that the American pwers are doing the same with 9/11.
A lot of alledgedly's etc but worth a look at for a conspiracy theory or two :wink:

[Riz]

Sorry for dragging up something form old pages but just read this just now. The connection between 9/11 and the Reichstag fire is that alledgedly the Reichstag fire was a inside job so Hitler could scare the Germans against the communists and he could easily pass through rules that partly breach human rights, search houses without warrant, listen to phonecalls of public. The same thing (if 9/11 was a inside job) applies to the american government if this was a inside job it was used to scare the American people into passing through the department of homeland security laws eg. searchng houses without warrant, arrest and detainment without explanation only being touted as "a terrorist." It is said that Hitler used this too start full control of his country going into full control of the world and people say that the American pwers are doing the same with 9/11.
A lot of alledgedly's etc but worth a look at for a conspiracy theory or two :wink:

I agree it was. Same with Nero burning down Rome, false flag policy.

[Gatecrasher]

I'm not entirely sure why you are even posting in this thread. :confused:
sorry, i didnt know i wasnt allowed :dunno:

p.s all those boycotters, your missing some amazing performences by some athletes especially phelps :agree:

[Hibrandenburg]

sorry, i didnt know i wasnt allowed :dunno:

p.s all those boycotters, your missing some amazing performences by some athletes especially phelps :agree:

:agree:

[barcahibs]

sorry, i didnt know i wasnt allowed :dunno:

p.s all those boycotters, your missing some amazing performences by some athletes especially phelps :agree:

Lovin the olympics so far :agree:


I agree it was. Same with Nero burning down Rome, false flag policy.


Sorry for dragging up something form old pages but just read this just now. The connection between 9/11 and the Reichstag fire is that alledgedly the Reichstag fire was a inside job so Hitler could scare the Germans against the communists and he could easily pass through rules that partly breach human rights, search houses without warrant, listen to phonecalls of public. The same thing (if 9/11 was a inside job) applies to the american government if this was a inside job it was used to scare the American people into passing through the department of homeland security laws eg. searchng houses without warrant, arrest and detainment without explanation only being touted as "a terrorist." It is said that Hitler used this too start full control of his country going into full control of the world and people say that the American pwers are doing the same with 9/11.
A lot of alledgedly's etc but worth a look at for a conspiracy theory or two :wink:


Sorry to butt in but current thinking has it that Nero had nothing to do with burning Rome and Hitler had nothing to do with burning the Reichstag. Both merely took advantage of others actions. I'm such a pedant.

Just shows there have always been conspiracy theories. What did these people use for headgear before the invention of tinfoil?

[Mikey_1875]

Sorry to butt in but current thinking has it that Nero had nothing to do with burning Rome and Hitler had nothing to do with burning the Reichstag. Both merely took advantage of others actions. I'm such a pedant.

Just shows there have always been conspiracy theories. What did these people use for headgear before the invention of tinfoil?

No solid proof for either side and there isn't likely to be in the future, so the conspiracy theory has as much value as the story of that he didn't do it. FWIW I have never stated I believe in these have just stated the stories behind them, and I haven't boycotted the olympics either :greengrin

[barcahibs]

No solid proof for either side and there isn't likely to be in the future, so the conspiracy theory has as much value as the story of that he didn't do it. FWIW I have never stated I believe in these have just stated the stories behind them, and I haven't boycotted the olympics either :greengrin

Sorry I wasn't trying to stir (well maybe with the tinfoil hat bit :greengrin) I really am just feeling annoyingly pedantic today :greengrin. I'll stop now.

you are of course absolutely right; like most things in history its very unlikely there'll ever be concrete proof either way.
I'm always swayed towards the simplest explanation however - I'm not sure how much Occam's razor can really be applied to history, but its a decent guide for most things.

[steakbake]

:agree:

The Lympics are good this year. Looking forward to the 100metre. Or the 100 yard dash as they called it in my day.

[Pete]

As i said i thought the video itself was very gripping but the bad rapping was putting me off, i take it that the "rapper" is urself

Very harsh.

I think you have to give credit where it's due. The boys a Scottish rapper and it could be so easy to go down the route of projecting in a different slang and talking about things like bling, money and bitches. Hats off to him for making music about subjects he feels strongly about.
If you think the actual rapping is crap or not you have to respect the whole concept of Scottish rap. I think these boys are fighting an uphill struggle agianst pre-concieved ideas regarding what is right and wrong regarding that type of music. There are people on youtube ridiculing them because they speak in a native tounge!! If they spoke in french they would probably be the coolest thing they've heard this month.


Scottish musicians should be listened to and respected for what they do as far as I'm concerned...no matter what the style. Open your ears.




Anyway...how are we doing in the olympics?

[Hibrandenburg]

The Lympics are good this year. Looking forward to the 100metre. Or the 100 yard dash as they called it in my day.

Gotta tip the Arabs for the sack race though. All that extra training they've been putting in is finally starting to pay off.

Sack race training camp (http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/29/430_hoodedman,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083224523783.html&h=395&w=430&sz=18&hl=de&start=4&um=1&tbnid=qMJ-XDvQX9-zkM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diraqi%2Bprisoner%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%2 6sa%3DN)

:duck:

[steakbake]

Gotta tip the Arabs for the sack race though. All that extra training they've been putting in is finally starting to pay off.

Sack race training camp (http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/29/430_hoodedman,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083224523783.html&h=395&w=430&sz=18&hl=de&start=4&um=1&tbnid=qMJ-XDvQX9-zkM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diraqi%2Bprisoner%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%2 6sa%3DN)

:duck:

Controversial!! :greengrin

[Riz]

Very harsh.

I think you have to give credit where it's due. The boys a Scottish rapper and it could be so easy to go down the route of projecting in a different slang and talking about things like bling, money and bitches. Hats off to him for making music about subjects he feels strongly about.
If you think the actual rapping is crap or not you have to respect the whole concept of Scottish rap. I think these boys are fighting an uphill struggle agianst pre-concieved ideas regarding what is right and wrong regarding that type of music. There are people on youtube ridiculing them because they speak in a native tounge!! If they spoke in french they would probably be the coolest thing they've heard this month.


Scottish musicians should be listened to and respected for what they do as far as I'm concerned...no matter what the style. Open your ears.




Anyway...how are we doing in the olympics?


Totally agree bud ... I dont mind critism at all, but when you look at people like Amy McDonald andmany man many Scottish artists singing in a US accent and noone says anything?! Me I do me, I speak about life that Im aware of and issues Im interested in and I do it in my voice ... if Rabbie Burns was alive today he'd be a Scottish Rapper, and quite frankly not even a good one compared to the under rated talent in Scotland today, there is ALOT of good scottish musicans across the genres who dont get a look in at all cos of major labels and lack of support from Scottish people and the scottish media! Its really a joke that I have sold over four thousand more copies of my last album in Australia than here?!?!?

Makes no sense ..... oh and by the way ...

Rap
- Lies
= Hip Hop



... and to ell with the olympics .... many people are missing the point, we are not against the olympics themselves, we are just against China being allowed to host them! Is that so hard to grasp?

[--------]

sorry, i didnt know i wasnt allowed :dunno:

p.s all those boycotters, your missing some amazing performences by some athletes especially phelps :agree:


Oh dear, how sad.

I won't be able to sleep tonight now I know this. :yawn:

[Gatecrasher]

Oh dear, how sad.

I won't be able to sleep tonight now I know this. :yawn:

your putting me to sleep posting pish like that

i was just saying FFS

:bye:

[--------]

your putting me to sleep posting pish like that

i was just saying FFS

:bye:


As was I.

Athletics should always be sponsored by Dulux, IMO. I find it about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Although it's always fun playing "Spot the Steroid Junkie". :devil:

[marinello59]

Totally agree bud ... I dont mind critism at all, but when you look at people like Amy McDonald andmany man many Scottish artists singing in a US accent and noone says anything?! Me I do me, I speak about life that Im aware of and issues Im interested in and I do it in my voice ... if Rabbie Burns was alive today he'd be a Scottish Rapper, and quite frankly not even a good one compared to the under rated talent in Scotland today, there is ALOT of good scottish musicans across the genres who dont get a look in at all cos of major labels and lack of support from Scottish people and the scottish media! Its really a joke that I have sold over four thousand more copies of my last album in Australia than here?!?!?

Makes no sense ..... oh and by the way ...

Rap
- Lies
= Hip Hop



... and to ell with the olympics .... many people are missing the point, we are not against the olympics themselves, we are just against China being allowed to host them! Is that so hard to grasp?

Beware the Burns backlash Riz. :agree:
I do like the idea of Scots in the future having Hip Hop Suppers.:greengrin

[Gatecrasher]

As was I.

Athletics should always be sponsored by Dulux, IMO. I find it about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Although it's always fun playing "Spot the Steroid Junkie". :devil:
there is so many sports outside athletics in the olympics and good ones at that.

and if some of the sports arent easy on the eye the sheer skill involved in some of them is amazing. i mean to win 8 gold medals in one games is beyond terrific and im sure you could appreciate that

[Crossgates Hibs]

Yeah you're spot on, don't give a toss whats happening around me as long as it doesn't affect me. You do enough worrying and treading of the moral high ground for both of us.


:greengrin lol

[LiverpoolHibs]

:greengrin lol

Really?

[Allant1981]

[quote=peterdouglas;1715410]Very harsh.

I think you have to give credit where it's due.


I will always give credit where its due but its not my cup of tea and i didn't think that it was the proper type of song for the video

[Hannah_hfc]

sorry, i didnt know i wasnt allowed :dunno:

p.s all those boycotters, your missing some amazing performences by some athletes especially phelps :agree:

:agree: World records being smashed left right and centre, this years has been brilliant to watch

[Crossgates Hibs]

Really?



Yes really, each to his own. This has been a fantastic sporting occasion ruined by political views. This is not the occasion or event that has anything to do with the issues raised and should be viewed as a sporting occasion rather than for people to protest about things that are nothing to do with sport.

[--------]

Yes really, each to his own. This has been a fantastic sporting occasion ruined by political views. This is not the occasion or event that has anything to do with the issues raised and should be viewed as a sporting occasion rather than for people to protest about things that are nothing to do with sport.


If you think the Olympics are purely a "sporting" occasion....

:bitchy:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Yes really, each to his own. This has been a fantastic sporting occasion ruined by political views. This is not the occasion or event that has anything to do with the issues raised and should be viewed as a sporting occasion rather than for people to protest about things that are nothing to do with sport.

Right then, going back to a point I raised previously and never really had answered; do you feel the same about the sporting boycott of apartheid South Africa in the 70s and 80s?

[Crossgates Hibs]

Right then, going back to a point I raised previously and never really had answered; do you feel the same about the sporting boycott of apartheid South Africa in the 70s and 80s?


Call me simple or whatever but i dont give a toss when i watch sport on the telly i dont think of the of hosts human rights issues. I am more concerned with the goverment in my own country that affect me than that of others.
I dont knock you for having such beliefs but others such as myself selfish as it may seem to you really cant get worked up by it all. There is so much crap going on in the world that i would rather just worry about what affects me and those closest to me.

[--------]

Does anyone know the exact number of workmen who died during the construction of the Olympic stadium?


But silly me - they were Chinese, and there's no scarcity of Chinese....

So why am I bothered? :cool2:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Call me simple or whatever but i dont give a toss when i watch sport on the telly i dont think of the of hosts human rights issues. I am more concerned with the goverment in my own country that affect me than that of others.
I dont knock you for having such beliefs but others such as myself selfish as it may seem to you really cant get worked up by it all. There is so much crap going on in the world that i would rather just worry about what affects me and those closest to me.

Well, there's not much that can really be said to that as you've admitted everything that anyone could have a go at you about. At least you're honest, I suppose...

[LiverpoolHibs]

Does anyone know the exact number of workmen who died during the construction of the Olympic stadium?


But silly me - they were Chinese, and there's no scarcity of Chinese....

So why am I bothered? :cool2:

In the least surprising news ever, no-one seems to know...

[Riz]

Gotta tip the Arabs for the sack race though. All that extra training they've been putting in is finally starting to pay off.

Sack race training camp (http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/04/29/430_hoodedman,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083224523783.html&h=395&w=430&sz=18&hl=de&start=4&um=1&tbnid=qMJ-XDvQX9-zkM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diraqi%2Bprisoner%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%2 6sa%3DN)

:duck:

Is that ment to be funny??? Im sorry but that is utterly PATHETIC! What a disgraceful thing to come out with!

[Riz]

Beware the Burns backlash Riz. :agree:
I do like the idea of Scots in the future having Hip Hop Suppers.:greengrin

To hell with Burns lol, he's so utterly over rated, he was a womanising junkie! And he only got where he got to because he was a Mason. Burns nights are a joke!...that contravesial enough :wink:

[Riz]

[quote=peterdouglas;1715410]Very harsh.

I think you have to give credit where it's due.


I will always give credit where its due but its not my cup of tea and i didn't think that it was the proper type of song for the video

when is it your going to get it into your head!!! The video was made for the song!!!!!! Its not some cut and paste job!! Its the music video MADE for the track...and 59,000 downloads on Myspace would argue with you, incidently its the BIGGEST DOWNLOADED UK MUSIC TRACK ON MYSPACE IN THE LAST 3 YEARS!!!! But aye your right and nearly 60,000 are wrong :dummytit:

[Riz]

Call me simple or whatever but i dont give a toss when i watch sport on the telly i dont think of the of hosts human rights issues. I am more concerned with the goverment in my own country that affect me than that of others.
I dont knock you for having such beliefs but others such as myself selfish as it may seem to you really cant get worked up by it all. There is so much crap going on in the world that i would rather just worry about what affects me and those closest to me.

Your right... you are selfish. At least you admit it.

[Riz]

People seem to be posting just how good the Olympics are this year. Im sure they are ... HOWEVER, Im not against the sporting event itself, so why even bother telling me whats going on and how good it is. Im also not against the Chinese people. I am against the judgement to "award" the Olympics to a regime that is corrupt and has been given "most favored Nation" status off a facist country like America. It human rights record is the worst in the world, its people live in poverty, its countries religions hide in sewers, its students and killed and taken away for medical experiments and even now as I type this parents who dared to stand up to the authorities when they lost thier only children in the earthquake have been imprisoned during the Olympics incase they might speak out to the world press! But aye, nae bother, did you see that guy doing the 100m... now that is important!!! :brickwall

[Crossgates Hibs]

Well, there's not much that can really be said to that as you've admitted everything that anyone could have a go at you about. At least you're honest, I suppose...


Rightly or wrongly they have the Games. Whilst you lot are on your high horses i hope you dont have Chinese electric goods in your houses or other items supporting China. :bye:

[Riz]

Rightly or wrongly they have the Games. Whilst you lot are on your high horses i hope you dont have Chinese electric goods in your houses or other items supporting China. :bye:

And thats got diddly squat do do with what? We arent on any high horse YOU are in the gutter. I know its confusing when you live on your kneas. Your bent over that much you think your standing up!

[Crossgates Hibs]

And thats got diddly squat do do with what? We arent on any high horse YOU are in the gutter. I know its confusing when you live on your kneas. Your bent over that much you think your standing up!


:yawn: Chill out are you really this stressed out about everything or is it a big act?

[Riz]

:yawn: Chill out are you really this stressed out about everything or is it a big act?

You confuse passion and compassion, morals and whats right with "stress" lol
says more again for you mate.

[Austinho]

People seem to be posting just how good the Olympics are this year. Im sure they are ... HOWEVER, Im not against the sporting event itself, so why even bother telling me whats going on and how good it is. Im also not against the Chinese people. I am against the judgement to "award" the Olympics to a regime that is corrupt and has been given "most favored Nation" status off a facist country like America. It human rights record is the worst in the world, its people live in poverty, its countries religions hide in sewers, its students and killed and taken away for medical experiments and even now as I type this parents who dared to stand up to the authorities when they lost thier only children in the earthquake have been imprisoned during the Olympics incase they might speak out to the world press! But aye, nae bother, did you see that guy doing the 100m... now that is important!!! :brickwallI've enjoyed watching my country being crowned the best in the world in 16 different event so far, in the biggest, greatest and oldest sporting event in the world. And it only comes around every 4 years - no way was I going to miss that. I've never had an interest in Chinese politics and it certainly wasn't going to spoil my enjoyment of the Olympics.

[Crossgates Hibs]

I've enjoyed watching my country being crowned the best in the world in 16 different event so far, in the biggest, greatest and oldest sporting event in the world. And it only comes around every 4 years - no way was I going to miss that. I've never had an interest in Chinese politics and it certainly wasn't going to spoil my enjoyment of the Olympics.


such a selfish attitude:brickwall

How can you watch the Games and ignore the political situation:grr:

LOL:duck:

[Riz]

I've enjoyed watching my country being crowned the best in the world in 16 different event so far, in the biggest, greatest and oldest sporting event in the world. And it only comes around every 4 years - no way was I going to miss that. I've never had an interest in Chinese politics and it certainly wasn't going to spoil my enjoyment of the Olympics.


Reread the post, its not just "Chinese" politics, its a humanitarian issue ... as for "your" country ... Im sorry Ive just seen a butchers apron get hoisted while I heard the national anthem of England ... aye right! Your country! Sure as hell aint mine!

[Crossgates Hibs]

Reread the post, its not just "Chinese" politics, its a humanitarian issue ... as for "your" country ... Im sorry Ive just seen a butchers apron get hoisted while I heard the national anthem of England ... aye right! Your country! Sure as hell aint mine!


OMFG you boycott the Games and now your watching and listening to it make your mind up man:greengrin Dont say it was on the news and you caught it by accident as you should have a cushion to put over your face:hide: lol

[Hanny]

OMFG you boycott the Games and now your watching and listening to it make your mind up man:greengrin Dont say it was on the news and you caught it by accident as you should have a cushion to put over your face:hide: lol

:tee hee:

[Gatecrasher]

Reread the post, its not just "Chinese" politics, its a humanitarian issue ... as for "your" country ... Im sorry Ive just seen a butchers apron get hoisted while I heard the national anthem of England ... aye right! Your country! Sure as hell aint mine!

its the GB anthem and we (scotland) are part of :yawn:

and if it can bring a tear to the the greatest olympian GB has ever seen (who is a scot) then im happy with that

[sh00byd00]

Riz, the way I see it you're coming across as a bit of a hypocrite. On one hand you're slating the Chinese authorities for not allowing their own citizens and the citizens of Tibet to express themselves in a free or democratic manner, yet when someone posts something that differs from your own opinion, you think nothing of being aggressive/insulting with your responses.

As long as everybody adheres to your logic, then there shouldn't be a problem, eh?

[Hibrandenburg]

Is that ment to be funny??? Im sorry but that is utterly PATHETIC! What a disgraceful thing to come out with!

I'm sure it probably raised a smirk from a few :agree:

[LeithWalkHibby]

Wonder which bastion of liberalism Saint Riz would approve of holding the games? Iraq perhaps? Or better still, Afghanistan? I would certainly pay money to see Riz as Team GB's flag-bearer in Kabul...

[Hibrandenburg]

Reread the post, its not just "Chinese" politics, its a humanitarian issue ... as for "your" country ... Im sorry Ive just seen a butchers apron get hoisted while I heard the national anthem of England ... aye right! Your country! Sure as hell aint mine!

Shocking post.

Just remember that many of those who fought and died for the butchers apron against German Imperialism and the Nazis were relatives of folk on here. Like it or not there's a helluva lot of Saltire in the Apron.

And before you go calling me a Nazi hun loving Unionist I'm not.

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

I'm sure it probably raised a smirk from a few :agree:

:agree:
I had a wee chuckle :greengrin

[Barney McGrew]

Rightly or wrongly they have the Games. Whilst you lot are on your high horses i hope you dont have Chinese electric goods in your houses or other items supporting China. :bye:

A very good point. You must boycott the games because of China's humanitarian record, but it's OK to use products from there as long as they're useful in everyday life. I wonder how many of the morally outraged own an i-pod for instance? Or how many of the computers they're typing away on have 'Made in China' stamped on the back of them? :cool2:

There's no point arguing over the decision to give China the games - right or wrong, the games are there.

That shouldn't detract from being able to appreciate sportsmen and women producing some fantastic displays of achievement over the last two weeks.

[sh00byd00]

I once bought a pair of plastic shoes on the assumption that no cows were harmed. Turns out the factory that made those shoes was closed down due to high pollution outputs. So my question is: is the life of one cow worth it if it means 3000 fish will perish? A difficult question, but one to ponder nevertheless.

Me, I blame the Chinese tbh.

[cabbageandribs1875]

OMFG you boycott the Games and now your watching and listening to it make your mind up man:greengrin Dont say it was on the news and you caught it by accident as you should have a cushion to put over your face:hide: lol...



:tee hee:

[superbam]

Shocking post.

[QUOTE]Just remember that many of those who fought and died for the butchers apron against German Imperialism and the Nazis were relatives of folk on here.

And its pretty insulting to those same people to suggest they were simply fighting for a flag, rather than against Fascism.


Like it or not there's a helluva lot of Saltire in the Apron.
Scotland has to accept its complicity in the crimes of the British Empire - it is too lazy and convenient to distance ourselves from it as a percieved victim/colony. We were right at the forefront of it, and we profited from it too.
On a literal note, however, hopefully not for long :wink:

[Riz]

Out of respect I usually answer each and every post. However as I have been shown none and quite frankly too many of you are too thick to understand why people are boycotting the Olympics...I will just say your comments are drivel. Not all of the previous posters but most of them. Flag waving Union muck unfurrling facist tosh!

I have never and will not watch the olympics ... Its hard to escapee from this Hoy dude, he was all over the news yesterday, and rightfully so. Good on him and congratulations to him. I would however have sat down when "that song" was played.

[Riz]

Scotland has to accept its complicity in the crimes of the British Empire - it is too lazy and convenient to distance ourselves from it as a percieved victim/colony. We were right at the forefront of it, and we profited from it too.
On a literal note, however, hopefully not for long :wink:

I think thats unfair to say really. Alot of working class people struggled at the same hand of those that profited from the slave masters. Plus when Fredrick Douglas came to Glasgow the working class people supported him fully ... not to mention we were the first country to expel slavery ... a slavery that had its own people in chains and sent away to forgien lands.

[Riz]

I'm sure it probably raised a smirk from a few :agree:

a few narrow minded racist idiots yes.

[Riz]

Wonder which bastion of liberalism Saint Riz would approve of holding the games? Iraq perhaps? Or better still, Afghanistan? I would certainly pay money to see Riz as Team GB's flag-bearer in Kabul...

as a Leither I find your comment disgusting. I will be in Afganistan soon tho, just outside Kabul, Ive said it before and I will say it again, I get no trouble over there at all. You show respect to the people and you get it back. Simple as that. Unlike the western idiots on here obscessed with me, me ,me attitude.

[majorhibs]

Only Riz could insult so many o the people on here & get away wi it, eh? :tee hee: Mind it might be somethin tae do wi the fact that the only person takin Riz serious is Riz. Oh and Doddie. :wink:

[Riz]

Only Riz could insult so many o the people on here & get away wi it, eh? :tee hee: Mind it might be somethin tae do wi the fact that the only person takin Riz serious is Riz. Oh and Doddie. :wink:

eh? Lets get this straight, someone comes out with a racist comment and a horrific picture of the torture and abuse shown at Abu Grave and Im the one thats insulting people? Have a bloody good look at yourself!
How utterly pathetic!

[Sergio sledge]

Out of respect I usually answer each and every post. However as I have been shown none and quite frankly too many of you are too thick to understand why people are boycotting the Olympics...I will just say your comments are drivel. Not all of the previous posters but most of them. Flag waving Union muck unfurrling facist tosh!

I have never and will not watch the olympics ... Its hard to escapee from this Hoy dude, he was all over the news yesterday, and rightfully so. Good on him and congratulations to him. I would however have sat down when "that song" was played.


as a Leither I find your comment disgusting. I will be in Afganistan soon tho, just outside Kabul, Ive said it before and I will say it again, I get no trouble over there at all. You show respect to the people and you get it back. Simple as that. Unlike the western idiots on here obscessed with me, me ,me attitude.

:hmmm: Interesting....... Maybe you should take some of your own advice while talking to these "western idiots on here." You might manage to get a good debate from people instead of the rubbish that your, generally interesting and well intended, threads usually disintegrate into. :wink:

FWIW I agree with the respect thing, but you need to practice what you preach. No matter the provocation.

[Barney McGrew]

quite frankly too many of you are too thick to understand why people are boycotting the Olympics

What an incredible sweeping comment to make. Resorting to abuse again because people disagree with you. You don't know anything about my intelligence (or anyone else on this board for that matter), so I suggest you think seriously about going back and deleting that post.


obscessed with me, me ,me attitude.

:kettle:

[degenerated]

Out of respect I usually answer each and every post. However as I have been shown none and quite frankly too many of you are too thick to understand why people are boycotting the Olympics...I will just say your comments are drivel. Not all of the previous posters but most of them. Flag waving Union muck unfurrling facist tosh!

I have never and will not watch the olympics ... Its hard to escapee from this Hoy dude, he was all over the news yesterday, and rightfully so. Good on him and congratulations to him. I would however have sat down when "that song" was played.

right, are you going to knock this on the head. you cant go about being abusive to other posters because they don' agree with your opinions. and if encouraging people to try and understand your views is what you are looking for then you are going the wrong way about it.

any more being abusive to people and this thread will be getting locked and infractions being issued.

[Hibrandenburg]

a few narrow minded racist idiots yes.

Here we go again. You're sounding like Mr Bush again. "If you're not one of us then you're the enemy".

Let's not forget that most of the so called victims at Abu Grave belong to an organisation that is commited to our downfall by any means available, not all of them but most of them. These people may have had access to information that could save thousands of lives. The interrogation methods used were aimed to put the fear of god into these people to encourage them to talk whilst causing them as little physical harm as possible. Didn't always work but consider how they would have tried to extract information from our troops and I feel the whole thing is put into perspective.

I really do hope the day never comes when you have to decide who's side you're on, however I fear it will.

Probably just wasted another 2 mins of my life writing this as I've just remembered that you believe it's us killing us anyway.

Me a Nazi? Nah!

You a paranoid delusional psychotic? :dunno:

[Allant1981]

as a Leither I find your comment disgusting. I will be in Afganistan soon tho, just outside Kabul, Ive said it before and I will say it again, I get no trouble over there at all. You show respect to the people and you get it back. Simple as that. Unlike the western idiots on here obscessed with me, me ,me attitude.


Try telling that to the hundreds of soldiers who have been killed over there, were they all un respectfull? You really need to think before you speak

[Allant1981]

[quote=superhibi1;1718434]

when is it your going to get it into your head!!! The video was made for the song!!!!!! Its not some cut and paste job!! Its the music video MADE for the track...and 59,000 downloads on Myspace would argue with you, incidently its the BIGGEST DOWNLOADED UK MUSIC TRACK ON MYSPACE IN THE LAST 3 YEARS!!!! But aye your right and nearly 60,000 are wrong :dummytit:


Did i say the song was bad? No i said IMO (yes thats right other people do have opinions) I didn't think the song was right for the video. Can you tell me why you have to have a go at every single person who disagrees with something you say.

[Crossgates Hibs]

as a Leither I find your comment disgusting. I will be in Afganistan soon tho, just outside Kabul, Ive said it before and I will say it again, I get no trouble over there at all. You show respect to the people and you get it back. Simple as that. Unlike the western idiots on here obscessed with me, me ,me attitude.


The reason you will get no trouble over there is because you hate GB and the west as much as they do. I am amazed at all the comments you find disgusting as some of yours disgust me, to me you should keep your rants for outside Finsbury mosque as thats where a lot of them belong not here. You would have sat down after going on the podium to collect gold after 4 years of toil to get there sums you up. This is why some of us enjoy the Games watching all the work and sacrifice these people have dedicated to their sport, to achieve that medal. Also this isnt rich spoiled footballers this is ordinary people who are there out of pure dedication to their sport, and will only make money if they are sucessful.
You are quick to call people racist and belittle them but what of your racist views towards England or GB. Why dont you move to Iraq or Afganistan or indeed anywhere rather than this racist hell hole you live in just now full of selfish western idiots with me me me attitudes. Im sure they would welcome you with open arms.:bye:

[superbam]

I think thats unfair to say really. Alot of working class people struggled at the same hand of those that profited from the slave masters. Plus when Fredrick Douglas came to Glasgow the working class people supported him fully ... not to mention we were the first country to expel slavery ... a slavery that had its own people in chains and sent away to forgien lands.


I agree - but you can probably extend that to a lot of working class people in England and Wales as well, who were just as much vicitms of the whole shect as your ordinary joe in Scotland.

[Riz]

I agree - but you can probably extend that to a lot of working class people in England and Wales as well, who were just as much vicitms of the whole shect as your ordinary joe in Scotland.

aye mate, totally agree there, should have pointed that one out.

And as for the rest of you, I couldnt give a toss for what you think, one of you said "when that day comes" and "pick your side" well that day came and went in 2001 and I picked my side. I sure as hell wont be in your bunker and would think nothing of carrying out the duties on my side of the fence.

As for your soldiers in Iraq, they are poor cannon fodder to the bougisie, they should never have been there, should not be there and there is no reason for them to be there. Oil and money that is it. Your a complete FOOL if you think they are there to hunt out the Taliban or AlQueda (both funded by the US and the UK)...or find Bin Laden (Tim Osman by his CIA name as he worked for them for years). Any soldier that goes out there goes out there under lies and if, God forbid, loses his life like many others have already then the real murderour is Blair and Bush. The UK and the US army have no place in the middle east and simply should not be there!

As fo that day ... I hope and prey that it is coming and I look forward to it with every breath. I know Im ready.

Viva La Revolution

[marinello59]

aye mate, totally agree there, should have pointed that one out.

And as for the rest of you, I couldnt give a toss for what you think, one of you said "when that day comes" and "pick your side" well that day came and went in 2001 and I picked my side. I sure as hell wont be in your bunker and would think nothing of carrying out the duties on my side of the fence.
As for your soldiers in Iraq, they are poor cannon fodder to the bougisie, they should never have been there, should not be there and there is no reason for them to be there. Oil and money that is it. Your a complete FOOL if you think they are there to hunt out the Taliban or AlQueda (both funded by the US and the UK)...or find Bin Laden (Tim Osman by his CIA name as he worked for them for years). Any soldier that goes out there goes out there under lies and if, God forbid, loses his life like many others have already then the real murderour is Blair and Bush. The UK and the US army have no place in the middle east and simply should not be there!

As fo that day ... I hope and prey that it is coming and I look forward to it with every breath. I know Im ready.

Viva La Revolution

What would that duty be Riz?

[Barney McGrew]

And as for the rest of you, I couldnt give a toss for what you think

You seem to spend quite a bit of time posting replies to things that you don't give a toss about then :crazy:

[Riz]

What would that duty be Riz?

what ever it takes.

Lets get something clear here. I do respect others rights to have a different opinion to mine. However I dont have to respect them for it or indeed respect them at all as I would not respect the rights of a Nazi.

Furthermore, I only expect a minority to agree with me I most certainly dont expect the majority to agree. This only happens through competing on the same scale as the mass media outlets, something that a smaller party could not do and could not compete with. Do I think the majority of you are wrong, YES. Do I think the majority of you are brainwashed, YES. Do I hold that against you, NO. Would I go to war with innocent people who have been misled NO. Should they pick up arms and attempt to go to war with me and people like me (as they are doing) would I fight back by ANY MEANS NECCESSARY .... MOST DEFINETLY AND UNRESOUNDING AND UNREPENTIVE YES!

[Riz]

You seem to spend quite a bit of time posting replies to things that you don't give a toss about then :crazy:


I dont care for you or your opinions, I can still respect them tho, and furthermore as I started this thread......

I think its easy to come on here and name call etc its harder to actually enter into the debate. You should try it sometime.

[marinello59]

what ever it takes.

Such as, examples please.

Lets get something clear here. I do respect others rights to have a different opinion to mine. However I dont have to respect them for it or indeed respect them at all as I would not respect the rights of a Nazi.

Sorry that doesn't make any sense. Looks like you couldn't carry an argument in a bucket.

Furthermore, I only expect a minority to agree with me I most certainly dont expect the majority to agree. This only happens through competing on the same scale as the mass media outlets, something that a smaller party could not do and could not compete with. Do I think the majority of you are wrong, YES. Do I think the majority of you are brainwashed, YES. Do I hold that against you, NO. Would I go to war with innocent people who have been misled NO. Should they pick up arms and attempt to go to war with me and people like me (as they are doing) would I fight back by ANY MEANS NECCESSARY .... MOST DEFINETLY AND UNRESOUNDING AND UNREPENTIVE YES!

So you are right and everybody else is wrong. Isn't there a word for that?




Off you go and join your pals in Iraq then, no time to waste Riz.

[Barney McGrew]

I think its easy to come on here and name call etc its harder to actually enter into the debate. You should try it sometime.

Most of the name calling on this thread, and virtually every one you get involved in whether it be on this board, or any other one on Hibs.net is done by you.

So it doesn't surprise me you think it's easy. It's all you seem to be able to do when someone has the temerity to disagree with you.

[MSK]

what ever it takes.

Lets get something clear here. I do respect others rights to have a different opinion to mine. However I dont have to respect them for it or indeed respect them at all as I would not respect the rights of a Nazi.

Furthermore, I only expect a minority to agree with me I most certainly dont expect the majority to agree. This only happens through competing on the same scale as the mass media outlets, something that a smaller party could not do and could not compete with. Do I think the majority of you are wrong, YES. Do I think the majority of you are brainwashed, YES. Do I hold that against you, NO. Would I go to war with innocent people who have been misled NO. Should they pick up arms and attempt to go to war with me and people like me (as they are doing) would I fight back by ANY MEANS NECCESSARY .... MOST DEFINETLY AND UNRESOUNDING AND UNREPENTIVE YES!Deary deary me ....NURSE ..an escapee !!!!! :crazy:

[degenerated]

aye Mate, Totally Agree There, Should Have Pointed That One Out.

And As For The Rest Of You, I Couldnt Give A Toss For What You Think, One Of You Said "when That Day Comes" And "pick Your Side" Well That Day Came And Went In 2001 And I Picked My Side. I Sure As Hell Wont Be In Your Bunker And Would Think Nothing Of Carrying Out The Duties On My Side Of The Fence.

As For Your Soldiers In Iraq, They Are Poor Cannon Fodder To The Bougisie, They Should Never Have Been There, Should Not Be There And There Is No Reason For Them To Be There. Oil And Money That Is It. Your A Complete Fool If You Think They Are There To Hunt Out The Taliban Or Alqueda (both Funded By The Us And The Uk)...or Find Bin Laden (tim Osman By His Cia Name As He Worked For Them For Years). Any Soldier That Goes Out There Goes Out There Under Lies And If, God Forbid, Loses His Life Like Many Others Have Already Then The Real Murderour Is Blair And Bush. The Uk And The Us Army Have No Place In The Middle East And Simply Should Not Be There!

As Fo That Day ... I Hope And Prey That It Is Coming And I Look Forward To It With Every Breath. I Know Im Ready.

Viva La Revolution

Put The Spade Down And Step Away From The Hole

[Crossgates Hibs]

what ever it takes.

Lets get something clear here. I do respect others rights to have a different opinion to mine. However I dont have to respect them for it or indeed respect them at all as I would not respect the rights of a Nazi.

Furthermore, I only expect a minority to agree with me I most certainly dont expect the majority to agree. This only happens through competing on the same scale as the mass media outlets, something that a smaller party could not do and could not compete with. Do I think the majority of you are wrong, YES. Do I think the majority of you are brainwashed, YES. Do I hold that against you, NO. Would I go to war with innocent people who have been misled NO. Should they pick up arms and attempt to go to war with me and people like me (as they are doing) would I fight back by ANY MEANS NECCESSARY .... MOST DEFINETLY AND UNRESOUNDING AND UNREPENTIVE YES!


:wtf:Are you for real?

[steakbake]

aye mate, totally agree there, should have pointed that one out.

And as for the rest of you, I couldnt give a toss for what you think, one of you said "when that day comes" and "pick your side" well that day came and went in 2001 and I picked my side. I sure as hell wont be in your bunker and would think nothing of carrying out the duties on my side of the fence.

As for your soldiers in Iraq, they are poor cannon fodder to the bougisie, they should never have been there, should not be there and there is no reason for them to be there. Oil and money that is it. Your a complete FOOL if you think they are there to hunt out the Taliban or AlQueda (both funded by the US and the UK)...or find Bin Laden (Tim Osman by his CIA name as he worked for them for years). Any soldier that goes out there goes out there under lies and if, God forbid, loses his life like many others have already then the real murderour is Blair and Bush. The UK and the US army have no place in the middle east and simply should not be there!

As fo that day ... I hope and prey that it is coming and I look forward to it with every breath. I know Im ready.

Viva La Revolution

Aye, state the obvious why don't you.

I won't be in anyone's "bunker" though, so if you see me, put your wee gun down and don't shoot. :wink:

[Riz]

Off you go and join your pals in Iraq then, no time to waste Riz.


Or Venezula, Or Cuba, Or Columbia, Or Spain, Or UAE, Or Canada ... or quite frankly plenty other countries that dont support this self driven selfish attitude that we have in the UK, while we seem to desperatly seek a scape goat and blame someone ... more often than not ethnic minorities.

I think its daft that yoy demonise Afghanistan and Iraq.... personally I feel if a forgien force invades your country, steals your resourses, kills your children and rapes your wife you should and would fight back...whats insane is to call these people terrorists. They are NOT terrorists for standing up for themselves. The British Army is the invasion force, its they who are in the wrong... its unfortunetly the soldiers that are bearing the brunt of an action taken by a headless government. That said many of the soldiers over there are no Angels either!

[Riz]

:wtf:Are you for real?

Realer than you will ever be

[Riz]

Put The Spade Down And Step Away From The Hole

you jumping in it like?:wink:

[Riz]

Never smoked crack in my life ... I am well aware of where it comes from tho ... brings us back in full circle.

[Riz]

think you need to do more homework on socialism

[Crossgates Hibs]

Never smoked crack in my life ... I am well aware of where it comes from tho ... brings us back in full circle.


If you have never smoked crack what do you take to be like you are? Is it cheaper than lager if so pm me with some details lol
:greengrin

[Riz]

If you have never smoked crack what do you take to be like you are? Is it cheaper than lager if so pm me with some details lol
:greengrin

Its called being wide awake and having the vail removed so you can see things clearly for what they are. PR is just good Propaganda and visa versa

[Crossgates Hibs]

Its called being wide awake and having the vail removed so you can see things clearly for what they are. PR is just good Propaganda and visa versa

so you take no illegal substances i am very dissapointed that you are just as mad as a hatter. Thought i could join you on cloud cukoo land and see what iys all about. Ah well back to the real world.:boo hoo:

[Riz]

so you take no illegal substances i am very dissapointed that you are just as mad as a hatter. Thought i could join you on cloud cukoo land and see what iys all about. Ah well back to the real world.:boo hoo:

away back to sleep with your fellow sleepwalkers ... you no boubt will sleep all the way to the gas chambers ... as the only thing guaranteed is that history will repeat itslf.

[Austinho]

think you need to do more homework on socialismThink you need to do more homework on socialising.

Here (http://www.datingdirect.com/signup/landing_g.php?mtcmk=083365)'s a start.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Or Venezula, Or Cuba, Or Columbia, Or Spain, Or UAE, Or Canada ... or quite frankly plenty other countries that dont support this self driven selfish attitude that we have in the UK, while we seem to desperatly seek a scape goat and blame someone ... more often than not ethnic minorities.

I think its daft that yoy demonise Afghanistan and Iraq.... personally I feel if a forgien force invades your country, steals your resourses, kills your children and rapes your wife you should and would fight back...whats insane is to call these people terrorists. They are NOT terrorists for standing up for themselves. The British Army is the invasion force, its they who are in the wrong... its unfortunetly the soldiers that are bearing the brunt of an action taken by a headless government. That said many of the soldiers over there are no Angels either!

Yeah, they are rather overly fond of slave-labour though.

Although generally agreeing with your position Riz, the manner in which you are arguing it isn't doing you any favours whatsoever.

[Riz]

Yeah, they are rather overly fond of slave-labour though.

Although generally agreeing with your position Riz, the manner in which you are arguing it isn't doing you any favours whatsoever.


Im not going to gain any support here anyway mate, its a lost cause with the majority of the people on here. Its a wonder they even support Hibs to be honest, due to views on "immigrants" and thier support of the crown and country. I think they would be more at home at Tynecastle. I mean slagging off Finsbury park mosque, (where incidently I have friends down there, not in the mosque but I know people who visit the Mosque).

Then of course to say such drivel as Abu Grave is there to help us and its a good thing lol... The British Governement has carried out more torture and abuse since the "invasion" than Sadam had done in hiw whole reign!!! Who's the REAL terrorists?!