Margo McDonald

[The cooler king]

Portrait just about to be shown on BBC scotland about one of our own who is sadly suffering from Parkinsons who is pleading for a dignfied death.

Stalwart at Easter Road.....if only we could get that bloody Scottish Cup for her next year.

[Gerard]

Portrait just about to be shown on BBC scotland about one of our own who is sadly suffering from Parkinsons who is pleading for a dignfied death.

Stalwart at Easter Road.....if only we could get that bloody Scottish Cup for her next year.

If only:wink:
G

[Betty Boop]

Portrait just about to be shown on BBC scotland about one of our own who is sadly suffering from Parkinsons who is pleading for a dignfied death.

Stalwart at Easter Road.....if only we could get that bloody Scottish Cup for her next year.Such a shame for Margo, my Dad died from Parkinsons, a terrible debiitating disease with no cure. :boo hoo:

[capitals_finest]

Portrait just about to be shown on BBC scotland about one of our own who is sadly suffering from Parkinsons who is pleading for a dignfied death.

Stalwart at Easter Road.....if only we could get that bloody Scottish Cup for her next year.


Hope she gets both these wishes. :agree:

[Cincinnatus]

I had the pleasure of working on Margo's relection campaign last year. She is a pasionate woman and powerful politician who roots for the Capital. On our travels in Bonnyrigg, a Jambo voter expressed his dismay at Margo's constant mentioning of Hibs. Margo was charm herself and happily engaged with the guy and probably turned him into a pro-margo voter.

I'm not sure about the right to die, seems to me lots of people do that left right and centre with all kinds of habits. In Holland where there is a right to die, the level of suicide is still very high. In Scotland the figure is an utter disgrace with mainly young men doing it. The annual total is around 600 people a year, mainly men and mainly in a brutally effective fashion. Working with the aftermath of that is excruciatingly difficult. Anything that makes self-destruction acceptable is in my view a very dangerous precendent. So, yes but with very powerful caveats.

[snooky]

Margo is the ONLY politician that I welcome into my home.
Not because of her politics but because of her charismic character, guts and downright honesty. The fact that she's a Hibby is but a bonus.

:applause::applause::applause:

[Chez]

I had the pleasure of working on Margo's relection campaign last year. She is a pasionate woman and powerful politician who roots for the Capital. On our travels in Bonnyrigg, a Jambo voter expressed his dismay at Margo's constant mentioning of Hibs. Margo was charm herself and happily engaged with the guy and probably turned him into a pro-margo voter.

I'm not sure about the right to die, seems to me lots of people do that left right and centre with all kinds of habits. In Holland where there is a right to die, the level of suicide is still very high. In Scotland the figure is an utter disgrace with mainly young men doing it. The annual total is around 600 people a year, mainly men and mainly in a brutally effective fashion. Working with the aftermath of that is excruciatingly difficult. Anything that makes self-destruction acceptable is in my view a very dangerous precendent. So, yes but with very powerful caveats.

:agree: The consequences of suicide for the people who are left behind, such as close family, friends and co-workers/school chums can be soul-destroying and grieving/recovering from such acts can take a long time - even one's lifetime, dependant on how close to the person they are/were. In other words, it is not just the person who commits suicide's life is taken, its everyone else's who was close to them :agree:

[Jay]

:agree: The consequences of suicide for the people who are left behind, such as close family, friends and co-workers/school chums can be soul-destroying and grieving/recovering from such acts can take a long time - even one's lifetime, dependant on how close to the person they are/were :agree:

The consequences of watching someone you love go through prolonged suffering from diseases such as parkinsons must be equally as hard. Conditions like Parkinsons, Alzheimers, dementia, muscle wasting diseases etc take every last shred of dignity away from you. I can understand people wanting released from it - I have no idea how we, as a society, could possibly work it or control it but I would have no problem with doctors assisting someone to have a more controlled and dignified end in certain cases.

[Hibby D]

Moved this thread into the Holy Ground for obvious reasons folks

D

[New Corrie]

Dignity is the key word in all this. Margo has never done anything but good things in her life (to the best of my knowledge) and has always deemed herself a custodian of her constituents, going into politics for the right reasons (a rare thing). I find it very sad that she has to explain herself now, given her personal troubled times. I think it says a lot more about the very sick opponents to her plight, than the lady herself, who actually tried to make a contribution and do right. It turns my stomach seeing her having to justify her personal wishes.

[LeithWalkHibby]

Dignity is the key word in all this. Margo has never done anything but good things in her life (to the best of my knowledge) and has always deemed herself a custodian of her constituents, going into politics for the right reasons (a rare thing). I find it very sad that she has to explain herself now, given her personal troubled times. I think it says a lot more about the very sick opponents to her plight, than the lady herself, who actually tried to make a contribution and do right. It turns my stomach seeing her having to justify her personal wishes.

And what if she had done a bad thing in her life (to the best of your knowledge)?

[New Corrie]

And what if she had done a bad thing in her life (to the best of your knowledge)?

Then it should still be her choice. You were right to highlight that point as it wasn't relevent.

[DaveF]

I didn't see all of it last night, mainly because I didn't want to watch all of it.

Perhaps I'm just afraid of my own mortality, but when I see people preparing for their own death it just put me off the programme.

That said, assisted suicide must have a place somewhere in our legal framework, but I guess it's something few of us want to think about until it lands on your doorstep?

Seeing that lady in Perth who in less than 4 years had gone from 'normal' housewife to being stripped of all dignity and health was so powerful.

Good luck to Margo in her fight. (both in parliamentary and personal life) :agree:

[GlesgaeHibby]

The interview in the paper was interesting. She didn't say she wants to die, but she spoke to a woman who wants to end her suffering and it changed her mind on euthanasia. Margo said her parkinson's is very mild just now, but if it got terrible for her and her family she'd consider it.

[--------]

First, there's nothing 'dignified' about death. There's nothing 'dignified' about the progressive failure of all our bodily functions. Its not like the movies or TV, so forget the fiction. Death is nasty.

The best we can hope for is time to put our affairs in order, to make whatever peace we can with whatever God we worship, and to be pain-free and cared-for at the end.

I have every sympathy for Margo McDonald. I can fully understand why she fears what may lie ahead for her, and why she would want to take control of the ending of her life.

There but for the grace of God, at least so far....

I'm very uneasy about the idea of legalising either euthanasia or assisted suicide. I do maybe half a dozen or a dozen funerals a month, and I can assure you that there's absolutely nothing in the whole wide world that brings out the worst in people as quickly as the prospect of a legacy.

There are families where any elderly person signing a 'living will' would be lucky to last six months from the signing. Legalising euthanasia would be leaving a great many elderly folks horridly vulnerable to having their lives taken from them against their will. (That's murder, btw.)

On the surface the Dutch system seems to work reasonably well, and I can understand again if Margo in her present distress perhaps hasn't looked too closely or critically at it. But I know personally of one case where a doctor in one of the Amsterdam hospitals refused to sign the forms for the 'mercy-killing' of an elderly patient, because he knew the patient hadn't given consent. He went to arrange for the patient to be moved to a hospice.

When he returned an hour later, the patient was dead - explanation, the hospital needed the bed, and another doctor had been prepared to sign the legal forms. The patient had then been 'put down', much like a redundant family pet.

I'd like to think doctors could be trusted to operate ethically when treating patients with terminal illnesses. However, a profession that lists Drs. Kevorkian, Crippen, Mengele and Shipman among its number doesn't really fill me with confidence. And the memories of some of the 'grieving families' I've dealt with over the years make my skin crawl.

I honestly think Margo's wrong here, though I can fully understand the position she's adopted.

[SuzySubaru]

Well, I'm with Margo all the way on this one. I understand why some people have reservations about it, but I honestly believe we should each have the right to die with as much dignity as possible in certain circumstances. My mum has Alzheimers and to see the person I grew up with slowly slipping away is something you can only understand if you've been through it yourself. A friend of hers died after having Alzheimers for several years and towards the end, it was distressing to say the least. There was no "person" left any more - just a shell. She wasn't living - merely existing and to me, to keep her alive under those circumstances was wrong. She had very little, if any, quality of life left and no vet would have allowed an animal to go on under those circumstances. Sometimes the idea that life should go on at all costs is simply wrong.

[Chez]

The consequences of watching someone you love go through prolonged suffering from diseases such as parkinsons must be equally as hard. Conditions like Parkinsons, Alzheimers, dementia, muscle wasting diseases etc take every last shred of dignity away from you. I can understand people wanting released from it - I have no idea how we, as a society, could possibly work it or control it but I would have no problem with doctors assisting someone to have a more controlled and dignified end in certain cases.

Have experienced both kinds of death - ones when someone withered away before my eyes due to cancer, alzheimers, strokes etc, I had the time to come to terms with the fact that the person was eventually going to die and, thereafter, accept it and make arrangements for their funeral etc in accordance to their wishes. With suicide and sudden death, the experience can be entirely different. There is no signs, signals etc that the person would suddenly be out of one's life - here this morning, gone this afternoon - no more time with the person, it suddenly stops. In my experience, sudden, unexpected death has had more of an effect on me than one's when I knew the person would eventally die.

[Jay]

Have experienced both kinds of death - ones when someone withered away before my eyes due to cancer, alzheimers, strokes etc, I had the time to come to terms with the fact that the person was eventually going to die and, thereafter, accept it and make arrangements for their funeral etc in accordance to their wishes. With suicide and sudden death, the experience can be entirely different. There is no signs, signals etc that the person would suddenly be out of one's life - here this morning, gone this afternoon - no more time with the person, it suddenly stops. In my experience, sudden, unexpected death has had more of an effect on me than one's when I knew the person would eventally die.

Suicide must be an absolutely horrendous thing for any family to have to deal with but I think its different if the person has a wasting disease or similar. They have time to plan and think it through and hopefully discuss it with those closest to them. They can arrange their funeral etc. This is for cases where the people are terminal anyway or are going to suffer, its ending it all a bit earlier than would happen naturally.

I agree with a lot of what doddie says. I think its a timebomb and I dont know how we could legally do it and make sure its done with the patients wishes at the right time, with the right intentions. I wish it was as straightforward as people would want it (me included) but it cant be.

I suppose the best option is to keep funding money to find cures for these diseases but thats not going to help those that are suffering right now.

[Chez]

Suicide must be an absolutely horrendous thing for any family to have to deal with but I think its different if the person has a wasting disease or similar. They have time to plan and think it through and hopefully discuss it with those closest to them. They can arrange their funeral etc. This is for cases where the people are terminal anyway or are going to suffer, its ending it all a bit earlier than would happen naturally.

I agree with a lot of what doddie says. I think its a timebomb and I dont know how we could legally do it and make sure its done with the patients wishes at the right time, with the right intentions. I wish it was as straightforward as people would want it (me included) but it cant be.

I suppose the best option is to keep funding money to find cures for these diseases but thats not going to help those that are suffering right now.

:agree: True J - Its not one of these issues that is just a black and white case - there is plenty of grey areas in it as well. In an ideal world, it would be great to be put out of my misery if I ended up with something like alzheimers or cancer - the real question is who would carry out such a crucial act and live with a clear conscience after :dunno:

[--------]

Suicide must be an absolutely horrendous thing for any family to have to deal with but I think its different if the person has a wasting disease or similar. They have time to plan and think it through and hopefully discuss it with those closest to them. They can arrange their funeral etc. This is for cases where the people are terminal anyway or are going to suffer, its ending it all a bit earlier than would happen naturally.

I agree with a lot of what doddie says. I think its a timebomb and I dont know how we could legally do it and make sure its done with the patients wishes at the right time, with the right intentions. I wish it was as straightforward as people would want it (me included) but it cant be.

I suppose the best option is to keep funding money to find cures for these diseases but thats not going to help those that are suffering right now.


Suicide can destroy a family, Jill. Families frequently blame themselves and blame the deceased, and often find it very hard to come to terms with the fact that someone thye love has ended his/her life.

One reason (I think) for this is the failure of the media and health authorities to get over te message that depression is an illness and that it can be fatal. And when it's fatal, it's fatal because the sufferer has committed suicide. Every suicide I've encountered has had a pre-history of depressive illness.

I have no problem with a doctor who makes his/her priority the relieving of pain when treating a terminally-ill patient, even if the level of painkiller administered effectuvely shortens the patient's life. That, IMO, is good doctoring.

I'm suspicious, however, of moves to legalise euthanasia for the reasons I've set out - basically, I don't trust some families not to pressure their elderly members into signing living wills, and I don't trust doctors not to take an easy way out of caring long-term for seriously-ill patients.

One thing we could ALL do is support the Hospice movement. I've seen people racked with pain, depressed and suicidal who have benefitted so much from the treatment they've received at St Columba's in Edinburgh and St Andrew's here in Airdrie. They CAN help, not just the patients, but the patients' families as well. IMO, a properly-funded and radically-extended system of hospice care would go a long way to solving the problem without ending anyone's life prematurely.

But there's no easy answer - not if we're going to respect everyone's rights and wishes.

[Hibby D]

Suicide can destroy a family, Jill. Families frequently blame themselves and blame the deceased, and often find it very hard to come to terms with the fact that someone thye love has ended his/her life.

One reason (I think) for this is the failure of the media and health authorities to get over te message that depression is an illness and that it can be fatal. And when it's fatal, it's fatal because the sufferer has committed suicide. Every suicide I've encountered has had a pre-history of depressive illness.

I have no problem with a doctor who makes his/her priority the relieving of pain when treating a terminally-ill patient, even if the level of painkiller administered effectuvely shortens the patient's life. That, IMO, is good doctoring.

I'm suspicious, however, of moves to legalise euthanasia for the reasons I've set out - basically, I don't trust some families not to pressure their elderly members into signing living wills, and I don't trust doctors not to take an easy way out of caring long-term for seriously-ill patients.

One thing we could ALL do is support the Hospice movement. I've seen people racked with pain, depressed and suicidal who have benefitted so much from the treatment they've received at St Columba's in Edinburgh and St Andrew's here in Airdrie. They CAN help, not just the patients, but the patients' families as well. IMO, a properly-funded and radically-extended system of hospice care would go a long way to solving the problem without ending anyone's life prematurely.

But there's no easy answer - not if we're going to respect everyone's rights and wishes.

Absolutely spot on Doddie - I had the privilege, yes the privilege, of witnessing hospice care for my parents through the last months of their lives; both died in St Columbas hospice within 5 months of each other. Dignity...that's the key word and that was made possible by all the staff who cared for my parents, and my brother and I, with the sort of love that beforehand, I didn't know was possible.

My Mum never made it a secret that she would not want to spend her last days on this earth being spoon fed and washed by strangers, but in effect that is what happened. But not in the way one would first think. There was so much laughter and happiness in amongst all that and the time spent by every hospice worker on giving my parents the practical & emotional care they required meant that my brother and I spent (probably) the most wonderful times ever with both our parents. As I said, that was a privilege :agree:

My heart goes out to Margo and all who are knowingly and bravely facing death head on but I just can't take that leap of faith required to trust anyone but mother nature to "decide" when life ends :agree:

[Riz]

I have nothing but respect for this woman. We may differ on a few policies, but as a whole I agree with most of what she says and does and is a true hero of the Scottish people!