Abusing Retail Staff

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry, I can't give you the full details on this story, but it is something that has happened to someone close to me, and I wonder if anyone has similar stories to tell.

A woman has been going into a big supermarket and its petrol station in the North West of the city. She is regularly rude to staff, and seems to think she has a right to do so.

The supermarket's policy has been to placate this woman, and ask the staff to treat her with diplomacy. However, this seems to spur her onto further abuse - she has taken to calling people names like "loser", "idiot" and "****bags".

My advice to those concerned has been to raise the issue with the store management as a matter of urgency. It seems to me that not only are they being asked to tolerate unacceptable behaviour, they are walking a tightrope on two counts.

Firstly, the abuser seems to be becoming more outrageous in her behaviour (probably encouraged by the store's backing). Her attention seeking could yet escalate to violence.

By failing to deal with this threat to their staff, the store are putting their safety at risk and - as such are leaving themselves open to a law suit. They are also allowing the woman to put herself into the position whereby the police could be summoned and a caution issued.

My feeling is that the diddies who are in charge of the place will do anything for an easy life, and are more likely to go for the staff again. This seems like folly, as the problem will persist until the abuser is dealt with and shown that she is not welcome.

Thoughts anyone?

[s.a.m]

I would agree with you. The manager should be having a (polite but firm)word with her, making clear that there are acceptable standards of behaviour, that she has breached them, and that she is being given a final warning. She breaches that, and she should be banned. Seems simple to me.

I can understand shops not wanting to get involved with individuals on a one-off basis, if possible, because things can turn nasty, and are sometimes best left alone etc........:blah: Howver, as it says on the buses, staff have a right to work without fear of abuse or assault, and if they are being repeatedly abused by this besom, and are not being supported by their employer, then they have a right to feel hard done by.

[steakbake]

I think we should arm shopkeepers.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think we should arm shopkeepers.

It worked for Apu.

[steakbake]

pubs ban abusive and unwelcome punters, so i dont see how the supermarket shouldn't do the same.

i think i have seen something like this before when shopping and it was a woman as well. she was a complete *********.

the managers are failing in their duty of care to their staff and should it happen that a worker is injured by an assault or finds the situation so distressing as to consider not returning to work, then i hope they will find that the law is on their side.

sometimes, some folk's money is just not worth the hassle it causes.

[Phil D. Rolls]

pubs ban abusive and unwelcome punters, so i dont see how the supermarket shouldn't do the same.

i think i have seen something like this before when shopping and it was a woman as well. she was a complete *********.

the managers are failing in their duty of care to their staff and should it happen that a worker is injured by an assault or finds the situation so distressing as to consider not returning to work, then i hope they will find that the law is on their side.

sometimes, some folk's money is just not worth the hassle it causes.

This is one of the things that really confuses me - how much can one customer's money be worth, especially when you spend ages following up her complaints? From a purely business point of view, the time wasted by staff dealing with this woman impacts on your ability to serve other customers.

If people see unpleasant behaviour in a shop, they are likely to take their business elsewhere. I used to think that the Reg Holdsworths and Curly Watts of the retail world were few and far between, but it seem *****with management is endemic.

I blame all these "customer is always right" courses. In hospitals there is great play made these days on zero tolerance to abuse. You see posters all over the place saying the same thing, yet when faced with a simple (no brainer IMO) decision, British management once again goes for the what they see as the easy option.

What would Alan Sugar do?

[RoslinInstHibby]

what if the lady in question had a genuine problem though ie tourettes? the shop would be screwed for banning someone over their disability?

[steakbake]

what if the lady in question had a genuine problem though ie tourettes? the shop would be screwed for banning someone over their disability?

Aye, but tourettes isn't about people being all angry and sweary. By the sounds of it, this woman has an attitude problem.

Tourettes is about swearing out of context or using other words which are not connected to the conversation and most folks with it could be carrying a very normal conversation then have a tic.

appreciate what you are saying, but tourettes is an extraordinary syndrome which affects ordinary people. it doesn't turn them into swearing nutters who cannot make themselves understood, though in a very small number of cases when there is another psychological factor, it might do.

in fact, not everyone with tourettes swears as part of their tics. it could be sniffing, a forced cough, repeating their words, repeating someone elses words etc, or even just involuntary movements of the head, arms, facial musles.

She might have tourettes but by phillip roll's account, seems like she's got an attitude problem. Bitch. (Sorry, thats one of my tics). :dizzy::dizzy:

[bingo70]

This is one of the things that really confuses me - how much can one customer's money be worth, especially when you spend ages following up her complaints? From a purely business point of view, the time wasted by staff dealing with this woman impacts on your ability to serve other customers.

If people see unpleasant behaviour in a shop, they are likely to take their business elsewhere. I used to think that the Reg Holdsworths and Curly Watts of the retail world were few and far between, but it seem *****with management is endemic.

I blame all these "customer is always right" courses. In hospitals there is great play made these days on zero tolerance to abuse. You see posters all over the place saying the same thing, yet when faced with a simple (no brainer IMO) decision, British management once again goes for the what they see as the easy option.

What would Alan Sugar do?

dissapointed that you think the issue here is to do with the management of the store not the erse hole of a customer, if your story was a one off i could understand but its not, more and more often are workers being abused, whether its bus drivers, call centre agents, retail workers or whatever industry now, pretty much everyone that works with the public agrees that they have to take a huge amount of abuse that can be considered intimidating and bullying, IMO as a nation we've become spoilt so as soon as we don't get our own way the majority now appear to think it acceptable to behave like a 5 year old taking a tantrum until they get what they want.

in my experience the worst culprits for this are the british, on a daily basis i deal with polish, american and austrailians and they all seem to have a much better attitude when you say something they dont want to hear. As a nation we need to chill oot.

To get back to the manager of your friends store though, more than likely the real people to blame are the head office of the said company, from my experience the country has gone customer service mad, if the manager had dealt with the ersehole in question, more than likely if a complaint had gone to head office he wouldnt have been backed up and his bosses would use that as a stick to beat him with, companies are terrified of complaints and in my experience do very little to back up there staff that actually have to deal with the customers face to face.

[RoslinInstHibby]

Aye, but tourettes isn't about people being all angry and sweary. By the sounds of it, this woman has an attitude problem.

Tourettes is about swearing out of context or using other words which are not connected to the conversation and most folks with it could be carrying a very normal conversation then have a tic.

appreciate what you are saying, but tourettes is an extraordinary syndrome which affects ordinary people. it doesn't turn them into swearing nutters who cannot make themselves understood, though in a very small number of cases when there is another psychological factor, it might do.

in fact, not everyone with tourettes swears as part of their tics. it could be sniffing, a forced cough, repeating their words, repeating someone elses words etc, or even just involuntary movements of the head, arms, facial musles.

She might have tourettes but by phillip roll's account, seems like she's got an attitude problem. Bitch. (Sorry, thats one of my tics). :dizzy::dizzy:


fair do's mate, was just tyring to think of why the management would not bar someone like that from the store:confused:

[steakbake]

fair do's mate, was just tyring to think of why the management would not bar someone like that from the store:confused:

they're probably scared *****less of her. hahaha they should have her removed. permanently.

sorry, i wasn't having a go, just happen to know a bit about it and how it affects people and wanted to get it out there!! :wink:

[The Green Goblin]

dissapointed that you think the issue here is to do with the management of the store not the erse hole of a customer, if your story was a one off i could understand but its not, more and more often are workers being abused, whether its bus drivers, call centre agents, retail workers or whatever industry now, pretty much everyone that works with the public agrees that they have to take a huge amount of abuse that can be considered intimidating and bullying, IMO as a nation we've become spoilt so as soon as we don't get our own way the majority now appear to think it acceptable to behave like a 5 year old taking a tantrum until they get what they want.

I`m sure that Filled Rolls is more than capable of answering this one, but wanted to add my tuppence. I don`t think the bit in bold is true. It seemed to me that FR recognised that the customer was a problem but that the response of the manager may not have been the best one. Also, he posted to get people`s thoughts.

I agree with blacksaltire. The manager has a duty of care to protect his staff from repeated (and that`s the key word in this case) unacceptable abuse, public displays of anti-social behaviour and intimidation. As FR says, the woman is moving up a sliding scale that could end in violence. No-one should have to tolerate that at work. The bus companies back up their employees when they are threatened or assaulted.

The most worrying thing for me personally in all this, is that people thinking about this case seem genuinely uncertain as to what the right thing to do is, and that`s a pretty damning sign of the times.

It doesn`t seem complicated to me. Woman directs abuse at shop workers then gets worse after she realises that the store manager is going to let her walk all over him and his staff. Wrong response. Managers job is to protect the wellbeing and interests of his workers. He should simply give her a warning then call the police if she doesn`t listen. It`s not rocket science. It`s the police`s job to deal with public unrest or threatening behaviour towards members of the public, isn`t it? That`s what they do, that`s what they are trained to do, so just do the simple thing, the correct thing, and call them.

If not, the path is predictable: in time, abuse will become insults, then comes intimidation and personal harassment, then it`s a small step to becoming threatening, and finally becomes violence..... ah, if only it had been dealt with sooner.

GG

[RmR]

I work in a small retail outlet. If any of my staff were abused in this manner I would call the polis straight away. I have had to do this on a few occasions, and every time the police have treated it seriously and have nicked the punter or have went and had a wee word with them.

It seems to me that the supermarket is leaving itself open to claims of constructive dismissal by not protecting their staff. Put a complaint in writing and copy in Head Office. Don't suppose they have a Union ?

[bingo70]

I`m sure that Filled Rolls is more than capable of answering this one, but wanted to add my tuppence. I don`t think the bit in bold is true. It seemed to me that FR recognised that the customer was a problem but that the response of the manager may not have been the best one. Also, he posted to get people`s thoughts.

I agree with blacksaltire. The manager has a duty of care to protect his staff from repeated (and that`s the key word in this case) unacceptable abuse, public displays of anti-social behaviour and intimidation. As FR says, the woman is moving up a sliding scale that could end in violence. No-one should have to tolerate that at work. The bus companies back up their employees when they are threatened or assaulted.

The most worrying thing for me personally in all this, is that people thinking about this case seem genuinely uncertain as to what the right thing to do is, and that`s a pretty damning sign of the times.

It doesn`t seem complicated to me. Woman directs abuse at shop workers then gets worse after she realises that the store manager is going to let her walk all over him and his staff. Wrong response. Managers job is to protect the wellbeing and interests of his workers. He should simply give her a warning then call the police if she doesn`t listen. It`s not rocket science. It`s the police`s job to deal with public unrest or threatening behaviour towards members of the public, isn`t it? That`s what they do, that`s what they are trained to do, so just do the simple thing, the correct thing, and call them.

If not, the path is predictable: in time, abuse will become insults, then comes intimidation and personal harassment, then it`s a small step to becoming threatening, and finally becomes violence..... ah, if only it had been dealt with sooner.

GG

TBH think i probably put my point across badly, wasn't having a go at filled rolls there, just thought the thread was going in the wrong direction as the blame was solely being put on the manager, IMO the problem being discussed has far deeper rooted issues than the manager of this particular store, its a cultural thing in this country now to behave like an erse to get your own way and I think thats the real issue here.

[Big_D]

If shoppers stopped using the store because of this causing the store to lose money the management would do something about it pronto

[Houchy]

My mate's a bus driver and they have a particular guy that is fairly well known that can be abusive so they have been told that if he is the only person at the bus stop, just ignore him and drive on. Now, the guy has no legs and my mate was driving down pennywell road when a group wanted on the bus so he had to stop. The guy got on and true to form said look at you ya daft Cxxx, weairing sunglasses when it's no even sunny" to which my mate replied "Ah Stumpy, How you getting on" then, "How come your wearing trousers but you've got no legs.

The whole bus just started piXXing themselves and the bloke never said another word.:greengrin

[Speedy]

Sorry, I can't give you the full details on this story, but it is something that has happened to someone close to me, and I wonder if anyone has similar stories to tell.

A woman has been going into a big supermarket and its petrol station in the North West of the city. She is regularly rude to staff, and seems to think she has a right to do so.

The supermarket's policy has been to placate this woman, and ask the staff to treat her with diplomacy. However, this seems to spur her onto further abuse - she has taken to calling people names like "loser", "idiot" and "****bags".

My advice to those concerned has been to raise the issue with the store management as a matter of urgency. It seems to me that not only are they being asked to tolerate unacceptable behaviour, they are walking a tightrope on two counts.

Firstly, the abuser seems to be becoming more outrageous in her behaviour (probably encouraged by the store's backing). Her attention seeking could yet escalate to violence.

By failing to deal with this threat to their staff, the store are putting their safety at risk and - as such are leaving themselves open to a law suit. They are also allowing the woman to put herself into the position whereby the police could be summoned and a caution issued.

My feeling is that the diddies who are in charge of the place will do anything for an easy life, and are more likely to go for the staff again. This seems like folly, as the problem will persist until the abuser is dealt with and shown that she is not welcome.

Thoughts anyone?


Customers are clueless, in my experience the customer is rarely ever right.

This causes many problems. One of which is customers becoming angry and abusive because they don't get what they want.

I get regular abuse from customers. I've been threated many times and called a variety of names. Was even punched one night from a customer who tried to buy alcohol. He didn't have ID so he decided if he couldn't buy it he'd nick it. When I caught him at the door he started punches at anyone that came near.

I've had many an argument with the management about things too.


what if the lady in question had a genuine problem though ie tourettes? the shop would be screwed for banning someone over their disability?

:bye:

You can't be serious

[Chez]

I`m sure that Filled Rolls is more than capable of answering this one, but wanted to add my tuppence. I don`t think the bit in bold is true. It seemed to me that FR recognised that the customer was a problem but that the response of the manager may not have been the best one. Also, he posted to get people`s thoughts.

I agree with blacksaltire. The manager has a duty of care to protect his staff from repeated (and that`s the key word in this case) unacceptable abuse, public displays of anti-social behaviour and intimidation. As FR says, the woman is moving up a sliding scale that could end in violence. No-one should have to tolerate that at work. The bus companies back up their employees when they are threatened or assaulted.

The most worrying thing for me personally in all this, is that people thinking about this case seem genuinely uncertain as to what the right thing to do is, and that`s a pretty damning sign of the times.

It doesn`t seem complicated to me. Woman directs abuse at shop workers then gets worse after she realises that the store manager is going to let her walk all over him and his staff. Wrong response. Managers job is to protect the wellbeing and interests of his workers. He should simply give her a warning then call the police if she doesn`t listen. It`s not rocket science. It`s the police`s job to deal with public unrest or threatening behaviour towards members of the public, isn`t it? That`s what they do, that`s what they are trained to do, so just do the simple thing, the correct thing, and call them.

If not, the path is predictable: in time, abuse will become insults, then comes intimidation and personal harassment, then it`s a small step to becoming threatening, and finally becomes violence..... ah, if only it had been dealt with sooner.

GG

:agree: Customer and staff safety and protection comes first and action needs to be taken on behalf of the store to ensure this :agree:

[Purple & Green]

A woman has been going into a big supermarket and its petrol station in the North West of the city. She is regularly rude to staff, and seems to think she has a right to do so.


Sounds like a normal day in Morrisons Ferry Road.

I was involved in a building project recently where the building owner was constantly rude and unreasonable to the contractor. The client just told the building owner to knock it off or the project would be shelved...no mucking about...no placating...just a simple behave or your not getting your job done. It worked too, and the building owner sat down and shut up.

[Chez]

Sounds like a normal day in Morrisons Ferry Road.

I was involved in a building project recently where the building owner was constantly rude and unreasonable to the contractor. The client just told the building owner to knock it off or the project would be shelved...no mucking about...no placating...just a simple behave or your not getting your job done. It worked too, and the building owner sat down and shut up.

Do you work in there P&G - shop there regularly :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I work for a major airline and in an enviroment where delays are frequent and stress is high we get all sorts of hotheads venting their anger on staff who have nothing to do with any delays or cancellations. Still some of these numpties think it's ok to abuse some little girl in an often unacceptable manor.

I try and employ a yellow/red card system. I have no qualms about removing someone from the aircraft if their common sense doesn't kick in after a talking to. Indeed not to do so is stupid because once the wheels leave the ground the situation can only get worse.

[Lucius Apuleius]

But surely we are allowed to shout and swear at someone who is not, in our perception, providing a service we have paid good money for? If not why are you allowed to do it at a football match a la Kerr and not in a supermarket or on an airplane?

[Hibrandenburg]

But surely we are allowed to shout and swear at someone who is not, in our perception, providing a service we have paid good money for? If not why are you allowed to do it at a football match a la Kerr and not in a supermarket or on an airplane?

Think you forgot your winky smiley.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Think you forgot your winky smiley.

Thought it would be more subtle without one :wink:

[TheBall'sRound]

The right to safe working conditions is an implied term in any employment contract. This includes protection from physical and verbal assault. It is possible that the employer is therefore breaching the contract by doing nothing to mitigate a safety risk that they are aware of.

If going through the relevant grievance procedures is not successful the abused employees would have a fairly good case for unfair dismissal on grounds of breach of contract and possibly a little compo for emotional distress caused by the abuse. Also, the absence of a risk assessment and procedures to deal with abusive customers may expose the shop to criminal charges.

For these reasons the employer (especially one the size of a supermarket) should be bending over backwards to prevent this behaviour from happening.

[jakki]

I used to go into the same newsagents every morning for my ciggies. For near a fortnight, every morning I was short changed and politely said to the new young assistant, "Excuse me , but you've given me the wrong change". Reluctently every day she would scowl and recheck it and with my help would rectify the problem.

One day, she lost her temper when I again brought to her attention that she had given me the wrong change and said "I'm fed up of you keep telling me I'm in the wrong. I'm not changing it . Get lost" OK it was a busy shop but no reason to lose her temper.

I left the shop saying " I only wanted to point out that you gave me change of a tenner when I only gave you a fiver!"

Needless to say, being honest as I am, the next day when I bought my ciggies, I handed her back the extra fiver and said that I hoped she had learned her lesson. She was so nice to me after that and always asked if she had given me the right change. :thumbsup:

[Phil D. Rolls]

what if the lady in question had a genuine problem though ie tourettes? the shop would be screwed for banning someone over their disability?

I think she does have a problem. She comes across as someone making a cry for help. Possibly something is wrong in her life, that she feels the need to seek attention in this way.

At the end of the day, what comes first thoug: her feelings, profits or the safety of staff. Let's just say - for arguments sake - that Sainsbury's (not that I'm talking about any of their shops - epspecially not the one at Craigleith) - decide that profits are more important. They are a commercial enterprise after all and in modern Britain their shareholders should expect that they act for them.

If this woman causes further stress to the staff, and they end up taking them to a tribunal for constructive dismissal, that will surely be more expensive than telling this nut job to sling a hook? The shop is notthe state, and if the woman is mentally ill, the state will look after her.

The story recently took on a comical twist where the store manager refuses to believe the staff's stories, and she wants to organise a sting operation to catch the woman out. What a clown that person is - why not just believe the staff's word? She believes the customers word when people complain and is quick enough to discipline people on the strength of it.

British management - a contradiction of terms.

It's not Tourette's by the way, her words are well chosen and are meant to hurt.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sounds like a normal day in Morrisons Ferry Road.
.

Close but no cigar! :wink:

[Chez]

I used to go into the same newsagents every morning for my ciggies. For near a fortnight, every morning I was short changed and politely said to the new young assistant, "Excuse me , but you've given me the wrong change". Reluctently every day she would scowl and recheck it and with my help would rectify the problem.

One day, she lost her temper when I again brought to her attention that she had given me the wrong change and said "I'm fed up of you keep telling me I'm in the wrong. I'm not changing it . Get lost" OK it was a busy shop but no reason to lose her temper.

I left the shop saying " I only wanted to point out that you gave me change of a tenner when I only gave you a fiver!"

Needless to say, being honest as I am, the next day when I bought my ciggies, I handed her back the extra fiver and said that I hoped she had learned her lesson. She was so nice to me after that and always asked if she had given me the right change. :thumbsup:

Quickest way to make them think J - have done the same since I am an honest person and the response was a change of attitude :thumbsup: