Under 21s Alcohol Ban

[Betty Boop]

Under 21s to be banned from buying drink in Off Licences and Supermarkets in Scotland. Seems a bit pointless, if it is still available to that age group in Pubs and Clubs. :confused: http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2342971.0.Plan_to_ban_under21s_from_bu ying_offsales_alcohol.php

[GlesgaeHibby]

Under 21s to be banned from buying drink in Off Licences and Supermarkets in Scotland. Seems a bit pointless, if it is still available to that age group in Pubs and Clubs. :confused: http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2342971.0.Plan_to_ban_under21s_from_bu ying_offsales_alcohol.php

Has been shown to make a big difference in piloted areas. Will make it harder for 16/17 year olds to get alcohol as people over 21 are more responsible. These kids can usually only afford white lightning/cheap vodka anyway, they wouldn't be able to afford drinking in a pub. It's pretty harsh measures and does penalise those that drink responsibly between the ages of 18-21 but if it reduces violence and street crime I'm all for it.

[MyJo]

They should go the whole hog and increase the age limit for buying any alcohol to 21

[julz]

I will point out that I can see the point of this, but I personally think it is a joke. I am 20 years old and I don't actual drink alcohol but a few weeks back I went to Asds to pick up a bottle of wine as it was my friends dads birthday. I also buy my dad wine for presents ect. Under these new stupid proposals, I would have to have my mum holding my hand to buy it :bye:

I feel they could raise the drinking age to 40 and people will still find a way to drink. They should tackle the problem of why kids drink, I.E they are bored cause local communities have nothing to offer them

[TheBall'sRound]

Specifically aimed at the buckie/cider drinkers who might pass for 18 (or who have friends of that age) but would never pass for 21.

Makes sense to me but I would probably be a bit ticked off if I were 20.

There are certain, cheap, high octane drinks that you won't get in a pub (or certainly not cheaply in a pub) that will suffer for losing a significant part of their clientelle to this legislation. Might get the source companies to think a bit more responsibly about their marketing etc.

[Sir David Gray]

I can fully understand the logic behind such a move but being someone who is almost 20 and who does drink sensibly, I would be pretty annoyed if I was banned from buying alcohol for a year.

It's mainly wee neds at 14/15/16 that are the main culprits of drink related crime anyway.

There needs to be greater education of Primary School age kids and if I had my way, I would actively encourage parents to gradually introduce supervised moderate drinking in the house as soon as their child goes into high school.

That way the child will know what alcohol tastes like and will therefore hopefully be less inclined to go out with their mates on a Friday night and get sozzled because they won't be as inquisitive to what it's all about.

It's just a suggestion.

[matty_f]

I think that there is definitely a need to do something about the underage drinking, and having seen success in the areas where this has been piloted then I think it's probably worth a bash.

There definitely is a difference between drinking in the pub and buying a carryout to drink on the streets (if you're underage and into that kind of thing). For a start, landlords have a legal obligation not to serve you if you are too intoxicated, plus in most pubs folk start to get peed off with folk who get to the point where they are falling about drunk or passing out, so the drinking environment is much more controlled.

Where this falls down (no pun intended) is where the landlords act irresponsibly or where the level of drunkeness that is socially acceptable is higher amongst the pub's clientelle.

I think it's a good thing. Harsh on those that do drink responsibly - but I suppose for them they do still have the option of going to a boozer.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think that there is definitely a need to do something about the underage drinking, and having seen success in the areas where this has been piloted then I think it's probably worth a bash.

There definitely is a difference between drinking in the pub and buying a carryout to drink on the streets (if you're underage and into that kind of thing). For a start, landlords have a legal obligation not to serve you if you are too intoxicated, plus in most pubs folk start to get peed off with folk who get to the point where they are falling about drunk or passing out, so the drinking environment is much more controlled.

Where this falls down (no pun intended) is where the landlords act irresponsibly or where the level of drunkeness that is socially acceptable is higher amongst the pub's clientelle.

I think it's a good thing. Harsh on those that do drink responsibly - but I suppose for them they do still have the option of going to a boozer.

Aye it needs sorted - it never used to happen in our day did it? What age were we when we had our first drink? 15?

Farcical from the SNP that you can buy bevvy from a pub but not the shop next door.

[Betty Boop]

Aye it needs sorted - it never used to happen in our day did it? What age were we when we had our first drink? 15?

Farcical from the SNP that you can buy bevvy from a pub but not the shop next door.
:agree:

[creebo1875]

I think if they stopped selling it in pretty much every shop and only sold it from specific stores run by the local authorities it would help with the problem. If you want to go to the pub then fair enough but if you want to buy a carry out you have to buy it from a specific store with proper security guards and strict I.D checks. How can you regulate who is selling alcohol to the correct age group when every shop is selling it.

[Sylar]

Aye it needs sorted - it never used to happen in our day did it? What age were we when we had our first drink? 15?

Farcical from the SNP that you can buy bevvy from a pub but not the shop next door.

Not really - it's all too easy for underage kids to either get folks to nip into a shop and pick up drink for them, whilst they await outside or obtain alcohol via some other methods through shops who are perhaps willing to turn a blind eye to those who are marginal in terms of legal age. Its hard to police those buying drink at shops, as you never know who's drinking the product in the end - at least in the pub, the landlord and barstaff can monitor who is actually drinking and you know you'll be ID'ing the correct person who will ultimately be drinking it in the end.

I think it's quite a smart move actually on many levels.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I will point out that I can see the point of this, but I personally think it is a joke. I am 20 years old and I don't actual drink alcohol but a few weeks back I went to Asds to pick up a bottle of wine as it was my friends dads birthday. I also buy my dad wine for presents ect. Under these new stupid proposals, I would have to have my mum holding my hand to buy it :bye:

I feel they could raise the drinking age to 40 and people will still find a way to drink. They should tackle the problem of why kids drink, I.E they are bored cause local communities have nothing to offer them

What exactly should local communities be offering them? The buckfast swigging jakies aren't interested in this, all they want to do is get blootered and run riot at the weekend.

Im fed up with the, 'There's nothing for them to do excuse'. It doesn't wash with me at all, when I was 15/16/17 we went to the cinema/meals/round to somebodys house, all fairly inexpensive and enjoyable.

This idea has been piloted and has been successful. I know it will penalise responsible 18-20 year old citizens but the pro's outway the cons in this example, as anti social behaviour fuelled by cheap rocket fuel is a serious problem and needs tackled asap.

[matty_f]

Aye it needs sorted - it never used to happen in our day did it? What age were we when we had our first drink? 15?

Farcical from the SNP that you can buy bevvy from a pub but not the shop next door.


Probably about 15, aye. But we weren't out causing trouble when we did it - we were generally at someone's house.

It's not that farcical because like I said - it's easier to control the amount they are drinking in a pub than it is when they buy it from a shop.

Times have changed since we were 15 at any rate - that was 15 years ago. I think steps like this, that have been tried and tested, are commendable and certainly worth trying on a larger scale.

[Speedy]

I will point out that I can see the point of this, but I personally think it is a joke. I am 20 years old and I don't actual drink alcohol but a few weeks back I went to Asds to pick up a bottle of wine as it was my friends dads birthday. I also buy my dad wine for presents ect. Under these new stupid proposals, I would have to have my mum holding my hand to buy it :bye:

I feel they could raise the drinking age to 40 and people will still find a way to drink. They should tackle the problem of why kids drink, I.E they are bored cause local communities have nothing to offer them

It is illegal for someone to buy it for someone that's underage so that wouldn't work :wink:


Specifically aimed at the buckie/cider drinkers who might pass for 18 (or who have friends of that age) but would never pass for 21.

Makes sense to me but I would probably be a bit ticked off if I were 20.

There are certain, cheap, high octane drinks that you won't get in a pub (or certainly not cheaply in a pub) that will suffer for losing a significant part of their clientelle to this legislation. Might get the source companies to think a bit more responsibly about their marketing etc.

Not sure about that, I thought that was the point of the think 21 thing?


Aye it needs sorted - it never used to happen in our day did it? What age were we when we had our first drink? 15?

Farcical from the SNP that you can buy bevvy from a pub but not the shop next door.

Won't do any favours for the battle against student debt :greengrin

[Steve-O]

These wee radges who are currently getting bevvied every Friday and Saturday night will simply find other ways of getting out their nut - i.e. drugs, glue, lighter fluid etc etc. Or they will resort to stealing drink from shops, their house etc.

I can't really see this having the desired effect.

I also agree that the 'theres nothing else to do' argument doesn't REALLY wash. Having said that, I don't recall having that much to do either at that age but I don't recall causing too much trouble during my underage drinking days.

[Danderhall Hibs]

How can on one hand the SNP want to reduce the voting age to 16 but on the other increase the drinking age to 21?

[Antifa Hibs]

Its an absulute *** farce. There will be loads of decent under 21's effected by this nonsense, alot of there fun and enjoyment spoilt by a minority of complete ******wits who can't handle a bevvy and start acting complete tits after a bottle of bucky.

This is the easy option of the government, the cowards option. Instead of getting to the root of the problem like penalising shops that sell to underagers or trying to teach kids about the responsable drinking or trying to combat there 'boredom' in other ways they come up with this *****.

[Steve-O]

How can on one hand the SNP want to reduce the voting age to 16 but on the other increase the drinking age to 21?

Because Kenny McAskill is on a one man crusade regarding bevvy.

[--------]

I think if they stopped selling it in pretty much every shop and only sold it from specific stores run by the local authorities it would help with the problem. If you want to go to the pub then fair enough but if you want to buy a carry out you have to buy it from a specific store with proper security guards and strict I.D checks. How can you regulate who is selling alcohol to the correct age group when every shop is selling it.

:agree: There are too many outlets selling alcohol in Scotland right now - every supermarket and corner shop has a licence. Off-sales are by nature uncontrollable - as soon as the booze is off the premises it can be passed on to anyone - and the huge number of off-licences makes the job of the police even harder these days.

Cut the number of outlets, and we might have a fighting chance of controlling who gets the stuff.


Not really - it's all too easy for underage kids to either get folks to nip into a shop and pick up drink for them, whilst they await outside or obtain alcohol via some other methods through shops who are perhaps willing to turn a blind eye to those who are marginal in terms of legal age. Its hard to police those buying drink at shops, as you never know who's drinking the product in the end - at least in the pub, the landlord and barstaff can monitor who is actually drinking and you know you'll be ID'ing the correct person who will ultimately be drinking it in the end.

I think it's quite a smart move actually on many levels.

:agree: As you say - the pub landlord has a vested interest in keeping order on his premises.

I see no reason not to make it compulsory for anyone buying alcohol to produce proof of age on demand, and people should be asked much more often than they are.


Because Kenny McAskill is on a one man crusade regarding bevvy.

Actually, no, he's not, Steve. He's the Holyrood Justice Minister, inheriting his job from Cathy Jamieson - one of the least impressive and least competent of Jack McConnell's crony gang.

The one single most pressing concern in the Justice remit in Scotland right now is substance abuse - from the supply and use of Class A illegal drugs to the abuse of alcohol, the abuse of prescription drugs, the over-prescribing of prescription drugs, the abuse of solvents....

Alcohol is the most readily available drug on the market right now, and is almost entirely uncontrolled. The consequences are, IMO, fairly obvious, and very few of those consequences are good ones.

I don't think we need a 'drink Czar' any more than we need a 'drugs Czar' - we need a rational policy of control of supply and pricing, and to move away from the attitude that no one can possibly have a 'good time' unless they somehow get themselves out of their skulls.

Right now the police are over-stretched, the Health Service is over-stretched, town centres are dreadful places to be on weekend evenings, and people are being actively encouraged to abuse a drug which seriously damages their health and does untold damage to social and family relationships. FACT.

Who's getting the benefit? The directors and shareholders of the drinks-producers, the supermarkets and corner shops, and the advertisers are making a bomb out of it, and putting little or nothing back into society to make up for the damage. The business is being driven by no law but the law of supply and demand, and when we're talking about a potentially adictive drug, the law of supply and demand only favours the manufacturers and suppliers.

Personally, I would ban all advertising of alcoholic drink, and all sponsorship of sport and the arts by the alcohol industry.

I would increase the price by taxation - right now alcohol is cheaper in relation to average income than it's been for over a century. (But that's Westminster's responsibility, and since New Labour are VERY heavily subsidised by the drinks industry, that isn't going to happen.)

I would refuse to renew a LOT of off-sales licences - especially those in 'convenience stores' and corner shops, because that's where most under-age drinkers get their drink.

I would impose serious fines on adults who supply under-age drinkers with drink - even if they happen to be parents or family members.

And back that up with accurate and relevant information about the effects of alcohol abuse in schools and wherever else young people gather.

It's not about stopping people enjoying themselves, Steve. It's about a major human and social problem - one that too many people simply deny exists.

[matty_f]

How can on one hand the SNP want to reduce the voting age to 16 but on the other increase the drinking age to 21?

He wants people to be sober when voting?:dunno:

[hibsboy90]

As a recently turned 18 year old, these proposals frustrate me.

Whilst I agree that alcohol is a huge problem in Scotland, I don't see the fairness in punishing legal drinkers (18-21) especially responsible ones like myself. Because of misuse by underage drinkers.

Stricter ID'ing by alcohol outlets would be one thing.

[Hibee-Bongo]

Argh. Hopefully the Pub will start selling kegs.

[Sean1875]

Aww, goodbye to my friday night piss-up in the park :brickwall :wink:

[ScapeGoat]

Cue the increase in border-raids of English off-licenses and a boom in internet delivery services.

[Jack]

Some great points here but nobody who makes the decisions is going to come on to Hibs.net and read what's being said. :bitchy:

The Scottish Government is currently running a consultation on what's being discussed here, why don’t you take you all take your points and make them offishul?

Here’s the link http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Health/health/Alcohol/strategy/have-your-say



Key proposals in the consultation document include:

Raising the minimum age for off-sales alcohol purchases to 21


Setting a minimum price at which a unit of alcohol can be sold


Ending 'three for the price of two' type promotions, which encourage impulse buying of extra alcohol


A 'social responsibility fee' for some alcohol retailers to help pay for the consequences of alcohol misuse and reduce the burden on the general taxpayer


Introducing alcohol-only checkouts in large off-sales premises, so that alcohol, like cigarettes, is thought of as a special case and not 'just another product'


Confirmation of a record £85 million increase in alcohol prevention, treatment and support services, bringing total spend to £120 million over the next three years (as previously announced as part of the Spending Review)

[stubru59]

Can get married.

Can have sex.

Can watch an 18 film in the cinema

Can vote

Can drink in a pub

Can drive a car

Can gamble life savings away

But can't buy a carry-out.

If that makes sense, I've missed something here.

[ScapeGoat]

Its a cultural thing, cultural things are difficult to change and not something that happens overnight.

From my experience, in Brazil women tend to see other women drinking alchohold as letting themselves down tend to drink soft drinks or nurse a drink for ages. The Brazilians can also enjoy themselves WITHOUT a drink. Maybe there's a lesson there, personalities out a bottle? Maybe we need more sun and wummin scantily dressed to keep our mind off the beer :)

Drinking til your out your box by and large on the continent is deemed uncool. Until we get to that stage then I think that things will continue no matter the price.

To tar everyone with the same brush - ie. unable to drink sensibly is harsh.

Lets look at the US...

Haven't lessons been shown about their period of prohibition. And we're they not the country that gave us Betty Ford clinics did alchoholic anon not start out there? Does their drinking laws prevent or exacerbate all this?

[hibsboy90]

Can get married.

Can have sex.

Can watch an 18 film in the cinema

Can vote

Can drink in a pub

Can drive a car

Can gamble life savings away

But can't buy a carry-out.

If that makes sense, I've missed something here.

Join the army, get involved in firefights and die for your country.







Also noticed in the paper this morning that Buckfast won't be hit by the price rise.:bye::bitchy:

[IberianHibernian]

Think another good measure would be to ban booze companies advertising in sport especially on kids`shirts . Have been really disappointed to see us spoil our shirts , stadium etc with booze adverts and have definitely bought less merchandise as a result . I`m far from a teetotaller but don`t think sport and booze mix . Allowing pubs to open early on days when there are big matches on is just crazy too - on this board there have been threads after every Hampden semi and final in recent years about problems caused by drunken fans . The day we finally break the Scottish Cup hoodoo a significant minority won`t even notice as they`ll be too pissed after starting bevvying at 8 am in a boozer or in Waverley Station ( is life in Scotland really that bad that people`s only source of enjoyment is getting drunk ? ). Solution is difficult but mainly involves more education ( are Scottish children educated about dangers of booze at school ? ) and just small example of our club ( shirt sponsorship , stadium sponsorship , constant encouragement to go to stadium boozer and buy jugs etc etc ) shows how many barriers there are to change .