23%

[The cooler king]

The lowest poll recorded by a primeminister since records began.
The big 'Brown' Jobby is about to be flushed.

Bye Bye:bye:

[JimBHibees]

wouldnt be too sure and things can change in the 2 years until an election. Cameron is basically Blair.

[GlesgaeHibby]

wouldnt be too sure and things can change in the 2 years until an election. Cameron is basically Blair.

There isn't any chance whatsoever of gordon brownose leading his party to a general election victory.

Labour are collapsing north and south of the border

[lyonhibs]

Leaving us with the Tories + SNP in power - oh goody goody ****ing gumdrops.

All politicians - bar one or two exceptions - regardless of party affiliation are self-interested mugs. C'est la vie.

I'd sooner have the party in power who have been responsible - amongst several other less savoury escapades I will grant you - for the minumum wage, tax credits, pensioner heating allowance, free personal care for the elderly (up here anyway), free public transport for pensioners etc etc than the party who - apart from breaking the Unions - have done sweet f.a. to even attempt to redistribute wealth in a equitable fashion during their years in power.

Scotland has done well - on balance - out of Labour relative to our treatment as second-rate citizens under Herr Thatcher

I was only 5 or 6 at the time, but the memories of my dad coming home stressed out of his nut from work having spent ANOTHER day - against all his natural political tendencies) trying to defend the indefensible Poll tax (as he was duty bound to do working for the Civil Service) has put me off the Tories for life.

IMO, as they say, you can't teach a old dog new tricks, and all this "Compassionate Conservatism" claptrap don't wash with me in the slightest.

[JimBHibees]

There isn't any chance whatsoever of gordon brownose leading his party to a general election victory.

Labour are collapsing north and south of the border

I agree thats the way it seems at the moment and to be honest have no sympathy whatsoever because I think they have been appallingly arrogant in both places. All I am saying is that things can change pretty quickly.

[steakbake]

I dont think Gordon Brown can turn it around. I think someone like David Milliband might be able to do something perhaps someone else, but Brown is a dead man walking.

Labour have a cheek to bang on about "uncertainty damaging Scotland" because of the off-on referendum while they have a half dead "leader" stitching together promises and policy which might get him a cheap headline in the daily mail.

they are totally finished and good riddance to them, too. what labour need to do is to realise they are a busted flush and to concentrate on opposition with a view to making the tories time in power as short as possible.

i pity those who seem to think "anyone but the tories", even if that means an infinity with the new labour party going from one disaster to the next.

on both sides of the border, we deserve so much better.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Leaving us with the Tories + SNP in power - oh goody goody ****ing gumdrops.

All politicians - bar one or two exceptions - regardless of party affiliation are self-interested mugs. C'est la vie.

I'd sooner have the party in power who have been responsible - amongst several other less savoury escapades I will grant you - for the minumum wage, tax credits, pensioner heating allowance, free personal care for the elderly (up here anyway), free public transport for pensioners etc etc than the party who - apart from breaking the Unions - have done sweet f.a. to even attempt to redistribute wealth in a equitable fashion during their years in power.

Scotland has done well - on balance - out of Labour relative to our treatment as second-rate citizens under Herr Thatcher

I was only 5 or 6 at the time, but the memories of my dad coming home stressed out of his nut from work having spent ANOTHER day - against all his natural political tendencies) trying to defend the indefensible Poll tax (as he was duty bound to do working for the Civil Service) has put me off the Tories for life.

IMO, as they say, you can't teach a old dog new tricks, and all this "Compassionate Conservatism" claptrap don't wash with me in the slightest.

I really don't like the alternatives, but I am fed up of this party in power;

Under labour;

The gap between rich and poor has grown wider
NHS hospitals have been closing at an alarming rate
10p tax cut affecting even more poor people
Borrowed, borrowed and borrowed to patch up the economy
Had our first teachers strike in years, because they are undervaluing teachers- workload/classroom violence etc all on the rise, yet they don't get pay increases at inflation whilst the govt do!?
Prisoners walking free early as our jails are too crowded

I wish Labour would go back to focussing on bread and butter issues, like health, crime and education. Issues that matter to the people.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I dont think Gordon Brown can turn it around. I think someone like David Milliband might be able to do something perhaps someone else, but Brown is a dead man walking.

Labour have a cheek to bang on about "uncertainty damaging Scotland" because of the off-on referendum while they have a half dead "leader" stitching together promises and policy which might get him a cheap headline in the daily mail.

they are totally finished and good riddance to them, too. what labour need to do is to realise they are a busted flush and to concentrate on opposition with a view to making the tories time in power as short as possible.

i pity those who seem to think "anyone but the tories", even if that means an infinity with the new labour party going from one disaster to the next.

on both sides of the border, we deserve so much better.

On this side of the border I think we've got it pretty good just now;

Prescriptions cost less, more policemen to be delivered, unfair tolls abolished on forth and tay bridges, hospitals earmarked for closure kept open.

Whether you like the SNP or not, they have done a very good job in their first year in power. You may not believe in independence, but the SNP have done a better job of running a devolved government as a minority party than labour ever managed.

[steakbake]

On this side of the border I think we've got it pretty good just now;

Prescriptions cost less, more policemen to be delivered, unfair tolls abolished on forth and tay bridges, hospitals earmarked for closure kept open.

Whether you like the SNP or not, they have done a very good job in their first year in power. You may not believe in independence, but the SNP have done a better job of running a devolved government as a minority party than labour ever managed.

They have done a great job, id say. Despite the very best efforts of a large section of the mainstream media.

I believe in independence and have absolutely no doubt that it could be made to work. I think id rather trust the Adam Smith Institute's views than the various views of Scotsman, Herald etc.

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/press-releases/xa/adam-smith-institute-scots-thousands-pounds-better-off-after-independence-$472260$439006.htm

[Phil D. Rolls]

Dead man walking - I'm actually worried about his health, he seems to have lost a lot of weight recently.

However when you look at the "dressed by their ma" dullards he has in his cabinet, he only has himself to blame.

Cannabis class B - no whether you agree with drug use or not, a government that makes decisions on based on - well no evidence at all really, is not fit for purpose. They are lost and clutching at straws to try and garner some popular support.

Meanwhile that nice Mr Cameron (aka Foetus Puss) just has to sit back and laugh as the votes pile up.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Dead man walking - I'm actually worried about his health, he seems to have lost a lot of weight recently.

However when you look at the "dressed by their ma" dullards he has in his cabinet, he only has himself to blame.

Cannabis class B - no whether you agree with drug use or not, a government that makes decisions on based on - well no evidence at all really, is not fit for purpose. They are lost and clutching at straws to try and garner some popular support.

Meanwhile that nice Mr Cameron (aka Foetus Puss) just has to sit back and laugh as the votes pile up.

They made the cannabis decision AGAINST scientific advice!

[Mibbes Aye]

Leaving us with the Tories + SNP in power - oh goody goody ****ing gumdrops.

All politicians - bar one or two exceptions - regardless of party affiliation are self-interested mugs. C'est la vie.

I'd sooner have the party in power who have been responsible - amongst several other less savoury escapades I will grant you - for the minumum wage, tax credits, pensioner heating allowance, free personal care for the elderly (up here anyway), free public transport for pensioners etc etc than the party who - apart from breaking the Unions - have done sweet f.a. to even attempt to redistribute wealth in a equitable fashion during their years in power.

Scotland has done well - on balance - out of Labour relative to our treatment as second-rate citizens under Herr Thatcher

I was only 5 or 6 at the time, but the memories of my dad coming home stressed out of his nut from work having spent ANOTHER day - against all his natural political tendencies) trying to defend the indefensible Poll tax (as he was duty bound to do working for the Civil Service) has put me off the Tories for life.

IMO, as they say, you can't teach a old dog new tricks, and all this "Compassionate Conservatism" claptrap don't wash with me in the slightest.

I think there are some good points in there. The creation and removal of the 10p tax rate (for example) will be a minor footnote when it comes to putting any sort of historical perspective on this administration.

What will count as the big decisions, domestically, are things like the minimum wage and tax credits. There is surely no chance of the Tories publicly saying they would remove them even though they were against them, because it would be electoral suicide.

For all else that has gone on, the Labour governments have targeted extra public money in huge amounts on children, pensioners, the unemployed and working families.

In the long-term I think there will be greater recognition of this attempt to redress social injustice often through almost old-fashoned interventionism, while marrying that to a recognition that Britain is inextricably part of a globalised economy.

[lobster]

Looks like its independence or much greater autonomy by default then. Anything is preferable to that upper class ratbag oik Cameron - he's worse or at least on a par with Thatcher :grr:

[Dashing Bob S]

I think Labour's collapse north and south of the border will make Scottish independence inevitable.

[joe_hfc]

quite interesting into understanding how people relate their voting due to party/PM image - considering Labour really havn't done anything wrong!

[GlesgaeHibby]

quite interesting into understanding how people relate their voting due to party/PM image - considering Labour really havn't done anything wrong!

What do you mean they haven't done anything wrong?

They have jumped from one mess, to the next. They have;

1. Closed many NHS hospitals down, against the wishes of people and staff
2. Watched the gap between rich and poor get bigger, and this is a labour govt FFS
3. Borrowed ridiculously to patch up the economy
4. Wasted time re classifying cannabis against advice, instead of fighting bread and butter issues
5. We have a PM that wasn't elected by the people, and who is too scared to call a general election
6. Watched prisoners getting early release as our jails are too full


Yes at the start of their tenure Brown and Blair were a formidable team, but now this govt is all over the place, with the labour party even worse north of the border. I've yet to meet a labour supporter that likes wendy alexander.

Last year the Scottish people realised it was time for a change, and how refreshing it has been.

[Pretty Boy]

Labour could turn it around in 2 years if they dropped the New Labour p1sh and got back to appealing to grassroots voters.

A few clever policies that benefited Scotland, North England and Wales as well as the ethnic minorities and lower paid workers of the South east would see a fairly decent swing in Labours favour.

Despite the unpopularity of Labour, the Tories popularity in polls has flatlined for about 3 and a half years, they simply, contrary to their own nonsense, cannot get a foothold in Scotland or North England.

Does anyone really think David Cameron is a better option that Gordon Brown?

A reactionary buffoon playing at gesture politics is not my idea of a good leader, what does this man understand of the ordinary people, educated at Eton and Oxford and a member of all sorts of murky societies. No thanks.

The worrying thing is we seem to have reached a stage in Britain where a government gets 2 or 3 terms then the media starts with their 'time for a change' nonsense and people lap it up without giving it any thought, they just buy into all this 'tired government' and 'all out of ideas' crap and accept it as gospel.

[sKipper]

quite interesting into understanding how people relate their voting due to party/PM image - considering Labour really havn't done anything wrong!

Whit ? I could write a book about it ! You don't need to go beyond last week to find a major clanger with the 10% tax fiasco.

[sKipper]

They have done a great job, id say. Despite the very best efforts of a large section of the mainstream media.

I believe in independence and have absolutely no doubt that it could be made to work. I think id rather trust the Adam Smith Institute's views than the various views of Scotsman, Herald etc.

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/press-releases/xa/adam-smith-institute-scots-thousands-pounds-better-off-after-independence-$472260$439006.htm


Brilliant find that link. I shall be using it liberally in future ! :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

They have done a great job, id say. Despite the very best efforts of a large section of the mainstream media.

I believe in independence and have absolutely no doubt that it could be made to work. I think id rather trust the Adam Smith Institute's views than the various views of Scotsman, Herald etc.

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/press-releases/xa/adam-smith-institute-scots-thousands-pounds-better-off-after-independence-$472260$439006.htm

That would be the same Adam Smith Institute that devised the poll tax, deregulation of the buses and rail privatisation? :devil:

[sKipper]

That would be the same Adam Smith Institute that devised the poll tax, deregulation of the buses and rail privatisation? :devil:

Are you inferring the Adam Smith Insitute is right wing ?

If you are right then it is even more remarkable that they suggest independence would have the Scottish economy booming. Most right wing organisations are normally deriding our chances of achieivng success when taking responsibility for the economy.

[Mibbes Aye]

Are you inferring the Adam Smith Insitute is right wing ?

If you are right then it is even more remarkable that they suggest independence would have the Scottish economy booming. Most right wing organisations are normally deriding our chances of achieivng success when taking responsibility for the economy.

The Adam Smith Institute are suggesting that if an independent Scotland slashed taxes then we could see economic growth. It's not a ridiculous notion although there's a lot more to it than that. As a pro-free market thinktank, the ASI would support low taxation.

The only thing is, the article makes no mention of where the money would come from to slash taxes. Unless you are proposing massive cuts in public services.

So essentially the ASI is trying to say Scotland would experience strong economic growth if it had a low-taxation model. This means driving a coach and horses through public spending. These are two things the ASI supports in general.

It's not necessarily about what's good for Scotland, it's about the ASI trying to sell their idea of how a country should be run (low taxation, low public spending).

[RyeSloan]

The Adam Smith Institute are suggesting that if an independent Scotland slashed taxes then we could see economic growth. It's not a ridiculous notion although there's a lot more to it than that. As a pro-free market thinktank, the ASI would support low taxation.

The only thing is, the article makes no mention of where the money would come from to slash taxes. Unless you are proposing massive cuts in public services.

So essentially the ASI is trying to say Scotland would experience strong economic growth if it had a low-taxation model. This means driving a coach and horses through public spending. These are two things the ASI supports in general.

It's not necessarily about what's good for Scotland, it's about the ASI trying to sell their idea of how a country should be run (low taxation, low public spending).


Bring it on I say!

A country that taxes and spends so much centrally is always going to be inefficent and wasteful and Scotland is a great example of that.

Also low taxes will not always mean reduced tax take....a simplified tax regime set at a reasonable level can frequently mean less avoidance and higher overall returns!

Ireland is a great example of what a low tax economy (well for buisnesses anyway) can produce....

[hibsboy90]

Labour could turn it around in 2 years if they dropped the New Labour p1sh and got back to appealing to grassroots voters.

A few clever policies that benefited Scotland, North England and Wales as well as the ethnic minorities and lower paid workers of the South east would see a fairly decent swing in Labours favour.

Despite the unpopularity of Labour, the Tories popularity in polls has flatlined for about 3 and a half years, they simply, contrary to their own nonsense, cannot get a foothold in Scotland or North England.

Does anyone really think David Cameron is a better option that Gordon Brown?

A reactionary buffoon playing at gesture politics is not my idea of a good leader, what does this man understand of the ordinary people, educated at Eton and Oxford and a member of all sorts of murky societies. No thanks.

The worrying thing is we seem to have reached a stage in Britain where a government gets 2 or 3 terms then the media starts with their 'time for a change' nonsense and people lap it up without giving it any thought, they just buy into all this 'tired government' and 'all out of ideas' crap and accept it as gospel.

You would think that being educated at celebrated institutions would expose DC to great minds and idea. And with the amount of chat here about cannabis laws, you would think that the Tory leader would be popular, considering that he has taken it :greengrin


The Adam Smith Institute are suggesting that if an independent Scotland slashed taxes then we could see economic growth. It's not a ridiculous notion although there's a lot more to it than that. As a pro-free market thinktank, the ASI would support low taxation.

The only thing is, the article makes no mention of where the money would come from to slash taxes. Unless you are proposing massive cuts in public services.

So essentially the ASI is trying to say Scotland would experience strong economic growth if it had a low-taxation model. This means driving a coach and horses through public spending. These are two things the ASI supports in general.

It's not necessarily about what's good for Scotland, it's about the ASI trying to sell their idea of how a country should be run (low taxation, low public spending).

Personally i believe that far too much money is being spent by the government, when you consider the size of the public sector i personally believe that it is far too big.

I also don't have any trust for the labour government, their Fiscal Policy has been a shambles, recently with the 10p tax rate. But they have broken the 'Golden Rules' which they self imposed, by purchasing Northern Rock. National Debt is going to be over 40% of GDP by 2010, and you cannot argue that the purchase was anything other than current spending. A cynic would say that this was a decision to keep it's stronghold in the North, the centre of Northern Rock's business.??????? Surely Not:bitchy:

Also, the way that we are in defecit is ridiculous considering the economic growth that we have experienced. We should only go into defecit when the economic cycle is at a low, and recoup the losses through a surplus when the cycle is in a boom. Where does the government propose that they fill this void from, as we will enter a bust soon (and require MORE spending).........hmm, i'm going to bet that it is on taxes.

[Mibbes Aye]

Bring it on I say!

A country that taxes and spends so much centrally is always going to be inefficent and wasteful and Scotland is a great example of that.

Also low taxes will not always mean reduced tax take....a simplified tax regime set at a reasonable level can frequently mean less avoidance and higher overall returns!

Ireland is a great example of what a low tax economy (well for buisnesses anyway) can produce....

I agree the Irish made a good fist of turning a country around that was in near-terminal decline. Whether the conditions would be the same for Scotland is debatable - certainly the global economic climate has changed - but the Irish have enjoyed years of economic growth with the capacity to gently increase public spending as they go.

Perhaps one concern is that they seem very heavily reliant on multinational investment. I think the vast majority of their exports are multinational-led which could potentially leave them very exposed and certainly ties them to a low-tax regime if they want to retain that investment.

How they then address increased need and demand for public services let alone the fiscal gap brought about by ageing population will be interesting.

They've also experienced a very pronounced wealth gap I believe. Whether that concerns someone very much depends on their political standpoint I suppose.

[Mibbes Aye]

Personally i believe that far too much money is being spent by the government, when you consider the size of the public sector i personally believe that it is far too big.



We moved beyond a Thatcherite model of public sector investment a long time ago though didn't we? Where would you have the axe fall in public spending, out of curiosity?

[hibsboy90]

We moved beyond a Thatcherite model of public sector investment a long time ago though didn't we? Where would you have the axe fall in public spending, out of curiosity?
I'm not 100% sure tbh. Just as well i'm not the one making the decision:wink::greengrin

Obviously the vital services need kept, it is great that we have 'free' NHS healthcare in the UK. Personally, i would let the axe fallon social security, far too many wasters who don't want to work. (I know there are countless arguments agaist this)

I know that the public sector has declined over the past 20 years or so. Yet when people don't feel the pressure or goals to make a profit they are frequently less efficient and productive. IMO it is no coincidence that productivity is the achilees heel of the UK economy, and we have one of the largest public sectors in Europe.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm not 100% sure tbh. Just as well i'm not the one making the decision:wink::greengrin

Obviously the vital services need kept, it is great that we have 'free' NHS healthcare in the UK. Personally, i would let the axe fallon social security, far too many wasters who don't want to work. (I know there are countless arguments agaist this)

I know that the public sector has declined over the past 20 years or so. Yet when people don't feel the pressure or goals to make a profit they are frequently less efficient and productive. IMO it is no coincidence that productivity is the achilees heel of the UK economy, and we have one of the largest public sectors in Europe.

:agree: NHS is routinely described as the third (or fifth) largest employer in the world.

It does seem difficult. As long as I can remember, Labour and Conservative governments have railed against public sector inefficiency but not seemed able to accurately quantify or 'fix' it. Certainly perhaps in the 70s with British Leyland etc but that's before I can remember :greengrin

[hibsboy90]

:agree: NHS is routinely described as the third (or fifth) largest employer in the world.

It does seem difficult. As long as I can remember, Labour and Conservative governments have railed against public sector inefficiency but not seemed able to accurately quantify or 'fix' it. Certainly perhaps in the 70s with British Leyland etc but that's before I can remember :greengrin
I think that we either have to tax heavily, and spend liberally and do it right. Like in the Scandinavian countries.

Or reduce taxes, and give people more freedom in what they do with earnings, instead of forcing their hands.

My bug bear is thatyou get punished for earning more, i understand the rationale behind progressive taxation, yet there is less incentive to do more work when a large chunk of it is taken by the taxman - Including National InsuranceTAX. The only way to rectify that would to have either of the options above.