the mccanns

[bingo70]

after the great news that young shannon mathews was found does anyone think its about time madeleine mccans parents were charged with neglect?

end of the day the only reason madeleine has been abducted is because of her 'parents' being a couple of lazy, tight arsed *******s. (to look after madeleine the night she was abducted it would have cost them £8)

[The cooler king]

guilty of 'Disassociation or parental responsibility', hence the publicity bandwagon to distract the attention from the real crime.

Gerry McCann need a stiff kick in the baws, and it riles me to think he's a Scot.

Whatever has happened to the wee lass, both these reptiles are implcitly guilty and the lengths they have gone to manipulate the media is galling.

[Zeberdee]

guilty of 'Disassociation or parental responsibility', hence the publicity bandwagon to distract the attention from the real crime.

Gerry McCann need a stiff kick in the baws, and it riles me to think he's a Scot.

Whatever has happened to the wee lass, both these reptiles are implcitly guilty and the lengths they have gone to manipulate the media is galling.

does this exist under portuguese law?

[Jay]

Maybe Scarlet Keelings mum should be charged with the same thing? The families made a huge error in judgement and one that they will probably punish themselves for every day. Would people feel better knowing the McCanns had not only lost their daughter but were also punished for neglect and then probably lose the twins? Would the twins thank you for that? Would it make you feel vindicated?

I absolutely hate this 'lets hang the McCanns' attitude.

[bingo70]

Maybe Scarlet Keelings mum should be charged with the same thing? The families made a huge error in judgement and one that they will probably punish themselves for every day. Would people feel better knowing the McCanns had not only lost their daughter but were also punished for neglect and then probably lose the twins? Would the twins thank you for that? Would it make you feel vindicated?

I absolutely hate this 'lets hang the McCanns' attitude.

the mccans arent the victims in all this, madeleine is. Any guilt their feeling now has brought on by their own actions

[Jay]

the mccans arent the victims in all this, madeleine is. Any guilt their feeling now has brought on by their own actions

No Maddie is missing because of the actions of a person unknown. The McCanns made a horrendously bad desicion in leaving her as did their friends who left their own children. Unfortunatley the McCanns are the ones paying for their actions not the rest of the party. Every parent makes bad choices, hopefully I will never make one as selfish and stupid as they did but in my opinion they are being treated as the guilty party only because the real guilty person or persons haven't been found. We need to point the finger at somebody and the only ones we have are the parents. I cant even begin to imagine what they go through on a daily basis knowing how bad their decision was but it doesn't mean they should be punished any more.

[alex plode]

the mccans arent the victims in all this, madeleine is. Any guilt their feeling now has brought on by their own actions

You don't think the McCanns are suffering enough ?

They may have been guilty of leaving their child unsupervised but does that warrant the punishment of abduction, and a probable heinous death ?

Any guilt they're feeling, may be justifyable in some peoples eyes, but the real cause of the suffering is the person who broke into their apartment and abducted their poor child . Pointing fingers at the McCanns in such circumstances is pretty poor form imho.

[bingo70]

No Maddie is missing because of the actions of a person unknown. The McCanns made a horrendously bad desicion in leaving her as did their friends who left their own children. Unfortunatley the McCanns are the ones paying for their actions not the rest of the party. Every parent makes bad choices, hopefully I will never make one as selfish and stupid as they did but in my opinion they are being treated as the guilty party only because the real guilty person or persons haven't been found. We need to point the finger at somebody and the only ones we have are the parents. I cant even begin to imagine what they go through on a daily basis knowing how bad their decision was but it doesn't mean they should be punished any more.


You don't think the McCanns are suffering enough ?

They may have been guilty of leaving their child unsupervised but does that warrant the punishment of abduction, and a probable heinous death ?

Any guilt they're feeling, may be justifyable in some peoples eyes, but the real cause of the suffering is the person who broke into their apartment and abducted their poor child . Pointing fingers at the McCanns in such circumstances is pretty poor form imho.

everyone makes mistakes, i can appreciate that, however if someone makes an error of judgement that results in the probable death of a young girl then yes, the guilt their feeling isnt enough punishment.

the fact theyve not caught the person that did it yet is irrelevent IMO, if it happened in the U.K to a lower class family then action would have been taken by the authorities IMO.

[blackpoolhibs]

No Maddie is missing because of the actions of a person unknown. The McCanns made a horrendously bad desicion in leaving her as did their friends who left their own children. Unfortunatley the McCanns are the ones paying for their actions not the rest of the party. Every parent makes bad choices, hopefully I will never make one as selfish and stupid as they did but in my opinion they are being treated as the guilty party only because the real guilty person or persons haven't been found. We need to point the finger at somebody and the only ones we have are the parents. I cant even begin to imagine what they go through on a daily basis knowing how bad their decision was but it doesn't mean they should be punished any more.

:agree: Until such time as any of us has had a child abducted, we can only guess the hurt and pain these people are going through. As for using the press for their own agenda, too bloody right, i would have done the same to try and get my child back.

[alex plode]

everyone makes mistakes, i can appreciate that, however if someone makes an error of judgement that results in the probable death of a young girl then yes, the guilt their feeling isnt enough punishment.

the fact theyve not caught the person that did it yet is irrelevent IMO, if it happened in the U.K to a lower class family then action would have been taken by the authorities IMO.

Grammar aside, that's an appaling statement. Maybe as well as losing a daughter, we should punish them further by banging them up ?

The same old argument, if Maddie had been from a lower class family blah blah. Remove the chip from your shoulder; the McCann case exposure or lack of "action" from the authorities has nothing to do with class. Maddie was in the papers as long as she was for a variety of reasons, none of them anything to do with "class" and the Local Authority haven't taken "action", because the McCanns haven't broken any laws and after a review, they don't think the other McCann children are in any danger.

.

[bingo70]

Grammar aside, that's an appaling statement. Maybe as well as losing a daughter, we should punish them further by banging them up ?

The same old argument, if Maddie had been from a lower class family blah blah. Remove the chip from your shoulder; the McCann case exposure or lack of "action" from the authorities has nothing to do with class. Maddie was in the papers as long as she was for a variety of reasons, none of them anything to do with "class" and the Local Authority haven't taken "action", because the McCanns haven't broken any laws and after a review, they don't think the other McCann children are in any danger.

.

surely theres some law about leaving children under a certain age on their own :confused:

if not i stand corrected, they shouldnt be charged, if however there is then they should as theyve broken that law.

[alex plode]

surely theres some law about leaving children under a certain age on their own :confused:

if not i stand corrected, they shouldnt be charged, if however there is then they should as theyve broken that law.


There's no law about leaving children under a certain AGE in this country.

There is however a law regarding leaving children "AT RISK". One could easily make a case that's exactly what the McCanns did but this would be hypothetical since it happened in Portugal.

Besides, the authorites have reviewed this particular case and decided there's no further action necessary, probably taking the view the couple have suffered enough, through the loss of their daughter.

[Hibs Class]

Maybe Scarlet Keelings mum should be charged with the same thing? The families made a huge error in judgement and one that they will probably punish themselves for every day. Would people feel better knowing the McCanns had not only lost their daughter but were also punished for neglect and then probably lose the twins? Would the twins thank you for that? Would it make you feel vindicated?

I absolutely hate this 'lets hang the McCanns' attitude.

:agree: It's easy to take a holier than though attitude, but anyone losing a child in any circumstances deserves sympathy rather than a bunch of ill-informed strangers puting the boot in. I cannot imagine that the law could do anything that would make the McCanns feel worse than they already do.

[capitals_finest]

after the great news that young shannon mathews was found does anyone think its about time madeleine mccans parents were charged with neglect?

end of the day the only reason madeleine has been abducted is because of her 'parents' being a couple of lazy, tight arsed *******s. (to look after madeleine the night she was abducted it would have cost them £8)

Leaving your kids with a stranger in a foreign country is probably more dangerous than leaving them on their own!

I m guessing you don't have children as if you did you would probably think otherwise.

[Hibbyradge]

after the great news that young shannon mathews was found does anyone think its about time madeleine mccans parents were charged with neglect?

end of the day the only reason madeleine has been abducted is because of her 'parents' being a couple of lazy, tight arsed *******s. (to look after madeleine the night she was abducted it would have cost them £8)

Aye, that'll solve everything.

:bitchy:

Don't you think they've been punished enough? How would a fine, or a few weeks in prison improve anything for anyone?

[PC Stamp]

the mccans arent the victims in all this, madeleine is. Any guilt their feeling now has brought on by their own actions

I'd be very surprised if they aren't aware that their actions were the proximate cause in Maddie's disappearance.

On the assumption that after this length of time it's unlikely she'll be found then they have to live with that for the rest of their lives. They also have to explain to their twins what happened to their sister.

If you don't think that's punishment enough then you are one hard hearted barsteward.

And a hard hearted barsteward making wild assumptions at that!

Do you have kids?

[bigstu]

after the great news that young shannon mathews was found does anyone think its about time madeleine mccans parents were charged with neglect?

end of the day the only reason madeleine has been abducted is because of her 'parents' being a couple of lazy, tight arsed *******s. (to look after madeleine the night she was abducted it would have cost them £8)

no, they made a mistake. I think every parent has left their child alone at some point, in the car outside the supermarket or let them go and play with their friends in the park. Everyone makes mistakes. The Mccanns have suffered enough! They have to live with the fact that they will never see their little girl again & the thought that she could be dead or she could be alive somewhere being held against her will.

[Chez]

No Maddie is missing because of the actions of a person unknown. The McCanns made a horrendously bad desicion in leaving her as did their friends who left their own children. Unfortunatley the McCanns are the ones paying for their actions not the rest of the party. Every parent makes bad choices, hopefully I will never make one as selfish and stupid as they did but in my opinion they are being treated as the guilty party only because the real guilty person or persons haven't been found. We need to point the finger at somebody and the only ones we have are the parents. I cant even begin to imagine what they go through on a daily basis knowing how bad their decision was but it doesn't mean they should be punished any more.

I wonder if you would say the same for other parents, who, perhaps have done the same or a similar mistake and, as a result, their children are in care :confused: IMO, the McCanns are no different and are responsible for the safety and welfare of their children and, childrens needs come first at all costs :agree:

[Betty Boop]

I wonder if you would say the same for other parents, who, perhaps have done the same or a similar mistake and, as a result, their children are in care :confused: IMO, the McCanns are no different and are responsible for the safety and welfare of their children and, childrens needs come first at all costs :agree:Agree, interesting to note Shannon Matthews has not been allowed home yet, and is under the care of Social Services. I wonder how that is? Surely her Mother must be desperate to have her home.:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Agree, interesting to note Shannon Matthews has not been allowed home yet, and is under the care of Social Services. I wonder how that is? Surely her Mother must be desperate to have her home.:confused:

The mother has 7 kids from 5 fathers. The family tree is enormous. I suppose that all of them will be under some kind of suspicion so, to avoid the possibility of any pressure being put on the girl, it's safest from all angles to leave her where she is.

[Jay]

I wonder if you would say the same for other parents, who, perhaps have done the same or a similar mistake and, as a result, their children are in care :confused: IMO, the McCanns are no different and are responsible for the safety and welfare of their children and, childrens needs come first at all costs :agree:

How do you mean? Of course the McCanns are responsible for the safety of their children but in their minds the children were safe, I disagree but not because I thought they would be abducted, because any sort of accident could have happened in that flat while they were gone. But if we removed every child whose parents made an error in judgment or left them in a room while they had a meal on holiday then the care homes would be bursting at the seams.

I dont understand if you are saying there are parents who have left their kids for 20 mins while they had a meal on holiday and the kids are now in care (I'd be very surprised) or if you are saying people have been charged with neglect and their kids are in care. In most cases it takes an awful lot for the kids to be removed from the family home - sometimes too much in my opinion. To remove the McCanns children as a punishment is wrong, the twins are no more at risk than my own kids are. In this country as far as I know we dont remove children to punish the parents, we remove them to protect the kids and the McCanns kids dont need protected from their parents.

[PC Stamp]

How do you mean? Of course the McCanns are responsible for the safety of their children but in their minds the children were safe, I disagree but not because I thought they would be abducted, because any sort of accident could have happened in that flat while they were gone. But if we removed every child whose parents made an error in judgment or left them in a room while they had a meal on holiday then the care homes would be bursting at the seams.

I dont understand if you are saying there are parents who have left their kids for 20 mins while they had a meal on holiday and the kids are now in care (I'd be very surprised) or if you are saying people have been charged with neglect and their kids are in care. In most cases it takes an awful lot for the kids to be removed from the family home - sometimes too much in my opinion. To remove the McCanns children as a punishment is wrong, the twins are no more at risk than my own kids are. In this country as far as I know we dont remove children to punish the parents, we remove them to protect the kids and the McCanns kids dont need protected from their parents.

:agree: :top marks

[bingo70]

just watched a film called 'gone baby gone', has anyone on here seen it? IMO it asks a lot of the questions that have been asked in this thread, really got me thinking (although not sure of the answers yet)!

[shamo9]

What really frustrates me is the publicity this one individual case receives. I'm not denying that this is a terrible tragedy but thousands of people go missing everyday. Most of them will be lucky if they receive a little column in a local newspaper, never mind being broadcast on national tv. It's disheartening to know how fickle the media are. They'll decide to promote a story for such mundane reasons as how photogenic the victims are.

On the Mccans, I'm not sure what to think. All I can say is that there's worse fates than a quick death. Child pornography, sex trafficking etc are the immediate connotations that come to mind when thinking of child kidnapping. The only positive situation I can think of, is if she's been given to an infertile couple who wanted a daughter.

I'm not wishing death on her or anything...but I wouldn't wish the dark alternative on anyone.

[Chez]

How do you mean? Of course the McCanns are responsible for the safety of their children but in their minds the children were safe, I disagree but not because I thought they would be abducted, because any sort of accident could have happened in that flat while they were gone. But if we removed every child whose parents made an error in judgment or left them in a room while they had a meal on holiday then the care homes would be bursting at the seams.

I dont understand if you are saying there are parents who have left their kids for 20 mins while they had a meal on holiday and the kids are now in care (I'd be very surprised) or if you are saying people have been charged with neglect and their kids are in care. In most cases it takes an awful lot for the kids to be removed from the family home - sometimes too much in my opinion. To remove the McCanns children as a punishment is wrong, the twins are no more at risk than my own kids are. In this country as far as I know we dont remove children to punish the parents, we remove them to protect the kids and the McCanns kids dont need protected from their parents.

I am saying that there are parents who have left their children unattended - just like the McCanns had - in the house while they have been out for a short time and, as a result of an incident occuring during that time, the decision was made that they left their children in a dangerous situation where they were unprotected and unsafe and, as a result, their children have been put in care. The incidents that had occurred were never near the level of one of them being abducted or where one was seriously harmed - two were the child had fallen out of bed and bumped its head off the bedside cabinet. The child was taken to hospital that night and the mother was questioned at the hospital by the police and Social services. So I am saying that the McCanns leaving their children alone in a hotel room is IMO leaving them at risk and that was proven when Madeline was abducted.

Tell me, would you happily leave your 4 yr old child alone in the house while you went out for shopping and know for certain that your child is protected and safe?

[Jay]

I am saying that there are parents who have left their children unattended - just like the McCanns had - in the house while they have been out for a short time and, as a result of an incident occuring during that time, the decision was made that they left their children in a dangerous situation where they were unprotected and unsafe and, as a result, their children have been put in care. The incidents that had occurred were never near the level of one of them being abducted or where one was seriously harmed - two were the child had fallen out of bed and bumped its head off the bedside cabinet. The child was taken to hospital that night and the mother was questioned at the hospital by the police and Social services. So I am saying that the McCanns leaving their children alone in a hotel room is IMO leaving them at risk and that was proven when Madeline was abducted.

Tell me, would you happily leave your 4 yr old child alone in the house while you went out for shopping and know for certain that your child is protected and safe?

The first bit - if thats true (and I have no reason to doubt you) and there is no more to the story than that then of course its wrong but do 2 wrongs make a right? Just because it happened to one family should it happen to another - not in my opinion.

Second bit - if you have ever read my posts on this case (and I know you have) you will know that I wouldn't. Neither did the McCanns though, it was night time and the children were in bed, they were being checked regularly. Again I think they were wrong to leave them at all but they didn't shut them in a room and swan off shopping for the afternoon.

[Chez]

The first bit - if thats true (and I have no reason to doubt you) and there is no more to the story than that then of course its wrong but do 2 wrongs make a right? Just because it happened to one family should it happen to another - not in my opinion.


Second bit - if you have ever read my posts on this case (and I know you have) you will know that I wouldn't. Neither did the McCanns though, it was night time and the children were in bed, they were being checked regularly. Again I think they were wrong to leave them at all but they didn't shut them in a room and swan off shopping for the afternoon.

What is good for one family is good for another IMO, the family I speak about the mother went down to the ice cream van at 8pm to get herself some sweets since she thought the children were in bed asleep. When she came back up the stairs a few mins later, she found one of them was up and had been to the bathroom and slipped on spilled water from washing their hands, and got a good blow to their head. When she went to hospital to get the child examined, she was only there for about 20 mins when the police and social services appeared. She was interviewed and admitted she was down at the van at the time of the incident. Social services made the judgement that the children had been left alone and therefore were at risk without a responsible adult - the result was her children were removed from her immediately and put into care. Quite frankly, the McCanns did exactly the same - left their children in bed without a responsible adult present - so there is no difference really. The only one I can see is the McCanns were a 20 minute walk away from the hotel and this mother was only 2 minutes from her house.

I agree with you that they were wrong to leave their children unattended and that is how I say that the McCanns should be treated the same as any other parent who has left their child unattended - charged with lack of parental care.

[Betty Boop]

What is good for one family is good for another IMO, the family I speak about the mother went down to the ice cream van at 8pm to get herself some sweets since she thought the children were in bed asleep. When she came back up the stairs a few mins later, she found one of them was up and had been to the bathroom and slipped on spilled water from washing their hands, and got a good blow to their head. When she went to hospital to get the child examined, she was only there for about 20 mins when the police and social services appeared. She was interviewed and admitted she was down at the van at the time of the incident. Social services made the judgement that the children had been left alone and therefore were at risk without a responsible adult - the result was her children were removed from her immediately and put into care. Quite frankly, the McCanns did exactly the same - left their children in bed without a responsible adult present - so there is no difference really. The only one I can see is the McCanns were a 20 minute walk away from the hotel and this mother was only 2 minutes from her house.

I agree with you that they were wrong to leave their children unattended and that is how I say that the McCanns should be treated the same as any other parent who has left their child unattended - charged with lack of parental care.:agree:Also the McCanns left their children unattended more than once, while they had dinner on holiday. It was hardly a one off. They stated that it was normal practice for British holidaymakers to leave their kids while they had dinner. Not where I come from its not!

[Chez]

:agree:Also the McCanns left their children unattended more than once, while they had dinner on holiday. It was hardly a one off. They stated that it was normal practice for British holidaymakers to leave their kids while they had dinner. Not where I come from its not!

:agree: And, according to their neighbours, they regularly did it at home as well. :agree:

[Jay]

What is good for one family is good for another IMO, the family I speak about the mother went down to the ice cream van at 8pm to get herself some sweets since she thought the children were in bed asleep. When she came back up the stairs a few mins later, she found one of them was up and had been to the bathroom and slipped on spilled water from washing their hands, and got a good blow to their head. When she went to hospital to get the child examined, she was only there for about 20 mins when the police and social services appeared. She was interviewed and admitted she was down at the van at the time of the incident. Social services made the judgement that the children had been left alone and therefore were at risk without a responsible adult - the result was her children were removed from her immediately and put into care. Quite frankly, the McCanns did exactly the same - left their children in bed without a responsible adult present - so there is no difference really. The only one I can see is the McCanns were a 20 minute walk away from the hotel and this mother was only 2 minutes from her house.

I agree with you that they were wrong to leave their children unattended and that is how I say that the McCanns should be treated the same as any other parent who has left their child unattended - charged with lack of parental care.


But surely the case you know of is ridiculous and if everybody who went to the icy and left their kids alone had their kids removed the care homes would be bursting at the seams? The case you speak of is horrendous and I am sure that no-one would expect others to go through the same thing. Like I say 2 wrongs dont make a right.

[Chez]

But surely the case you know of is ridiculous and if everybody who went to the icy and left their kids alone had their kids removed the care homes would be bursting at the seams? The case you speak of is horrendous and I am sure that no-one would expect others to go through the same thing. Like I say 2 wrongs dont make a right.

Two wrongs in the McCanns case - firstly, wrong to leave their children unattended without adult supervision and, secondly, wrong to try and exonerate themselves from any fault for their daughter going missing do NOT make a right. The McCanns are not exempt to the law and the authorities.

The case I highlighted is not ridiculous in the eyes of the law seemingly and, if only you knew the truth of how many children are in care homes at present - too many in my view as a result of silly petty things like I speak about, however, not enough of those who are regularly experiencing the kind of acts the McCanns are guilty of :agree:

[Jay]

I am going to bow out now Cherrose we are obviously poles apart on opinion and both have experience it seems with children in care but very very different experiences. I think we will always disagree wholeheartedly on this subject.

Lets just pray that Maddie is at peace wherever she is.

[Chez]

I am going to bow out now Cherrose we are obviously poles apart on opinion and both have experience it seems with children in care but very very different experiences. I think we will always disagree wholeheartedly on this subject.

Lets just pray that Maddie is at peace wherever she is.

I agree Jill - we'll agree to differ - we both see it from different viewpoints :agree:

[Ants]

Two wrongs in the McCanns case - firstly, wrong to leave their children unattended without adult supervision and, secondly, wrong to try and exonerate themselves from any fault for their daughter going missing do NOT make a right. The McCanns are not exempt to the law and the authorities.

The case I highlighted is not ridiculous in the eyes of the law seemingly and, if only you knew the truth of how many children are in care homes at present - too many in my view as a result of silly petty things like I speak about, however, not enough of those who are regularly experiencing the kind of acts the McCanns are guilty of :agree:

This sums up alot of peoples feelings, that its rules for one and not for the others.
The others being people without contacts in high places who manipulate the tabloids to produce the story that suits them.

I and probably everyone else on this forum would not leave their young children home alone to go out on a dinner date.

[alex plode]

This sums up alot of peoples feelings, that its rules for one and not for the others.
The others being people without contacts in high places who manipulate the tabloids to produce the story that suits them.

.

Can I say that doesn't sum up my feelings.

[Chez]

This sums up alot of peoples feelings, that its rules for one and not for the others.

:agree: Totally unfair system - how some get severely punished and their kids put in care for trivial things and others don't for more risky acts.

The others being people without contacts in high places who manipulate the tabloids to produce the story that suits them.

As a result of a guilty conscience perhaps

I and probably everyone else on this forum would not leave their young children home alone to go out on a dinner date.

Definitely - wouldn't even have attempted to leave mine at that ages of 4, 2 and 1 even for a minute :agree:

[Removed]

So is all the stuff about the Mcanns giving the kids something to keep them sleeping a load of rubbish?

[alex plode]

So is all the stuff about the Mcanns giving the kids something to keep them sleeping a load of rubbish?

Erm.......


Yes.

[alex plode]

... the family I speak about the mother went down to the ice cream van at 8pm to get herself some sweets since she thought the children were in bed asleep. When she came back up the stairs a few mins later, she found one of them was up and had been to the bathroom and slipped on spilled water from washing their hands, and got a good blow to their head. When she went to hospital to get the child examined, she was only there for about 20 mins when the police and social services appeared. She was interviewed and admitted she was down at the van at the time of the incident. Social services made the judgement that the children had been left alone and therefore were at risk without a responsible adult - the result was her children were removed from her immediately and put into care Having some experience of child protection, there is no way a child would be taken into care on the strength of this event alone.
I'm not saying it didn't happen; only there would be more evidence for social services to consider.

Quite frankly, the McCanns did exactly the same - left their children in bed without a responsible adult present - so there is no difference really Correct, and if it happened in this country the authorities would convene a case conference involving social services & the police. Leicestershire Council did convene this meeting and concluded their is no risk to the remaining McCanns.

They've been punished enough and treated by the authorities in exactlythe same way as anyone else would be, in similar circumstances.

[Ed De Gramo]

End of the day, I cannae say what I really think (will offend certain people on here)....but I'll say this much....it's neglect....if any middle class parent left their child alone...it would be goodnight Vienna....but because 2 doctors leave their kids then it's alright...:bitchy::bitchy::bitchy:

What makes it worse is that Gerry McCann was nominate for Scot of the Year....actually makes me feel sick....:agree:

I also think that the Shannon Matthews case is very wrong....some foul play going on there....can't help but think that the mother has saw what the McCann's got and thought "I could do with some of that"....after all, she apparently was under investigation from Social Services in the first place....

There's too much *****e in Britain nowadays....

[alex plode]

There's too much *****e in Britain nowadays....

And people with an unhealthy bitterness and peceived injustice directed towards two people, just because they're doctors and have had their child abducted, sums up quite a lot of this *****e imho.

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Its about time we stopped all this MM buisness , as much as it pains me to say it "SHES DEAD" so just let her rest.....there is no pain greater than the loss of a child and unfortunately the parents will have to live with this for the rest of thier lifes

[Ed De Gramo]

And people with an unhealthy bitterness and peceived injustice directed towards two people, just because they're doctors and have had their child abducted, sums up quite a lot of this *****e imho.

Are you 1 of the Tapas 11? :bye::bye:

[alex plode]

Are you 1 of the Tapas 11? :bye::bye:

They sound like a Sunday League team of Spanish waiters ?

I just play 5-a-side now mate :greengrin