Scottish Parliment Election Today!

[Zeberdee]

If there was a poll today, who would you vote for?

The snp have done an acceptable job with some decent initiatives but in the long term i think labour are still the best option available to us.

[DaveF]

If there was a poll today, who would you vote for?

The snp have done an acceptable job with some decent initiatives but in the long term i think labour are still the best option available to us.


Bit of a strange statement that, is it not? You praise the current government yet still Labour are the best option? In what way?

I'd vote SNP.

Labour need to work very, very hard to lose that arrogant "we own this place" streak which has blighted them for so long in Scotland.

[Zeberdee]

Bit of a strange statement that, is it not? You praise the current government yet still Labour are the best option? In what way?

I'd vote SNP.

Labour need to work very, very hard to lose that arrogant "we own this place" streak which has blighted them for so long in Scotland.

Sorry i should have supported my statement.

I dont want independence which is their ultimate goal.

But also i feel their policies are based on short term in order to gain support. For example the coucil tax freeze is just delaying the inevitable jump which is apparently nicely timed to be after the next election.
The police promised were never delivered?

Things i like are the possibility of reduced ferry prices and removal of the bridge toll and free prescriptions. but ultimately as someone in full time employment these are not major factors in who i will vote for.

With the possibility of financial melt down over the next few years i'd rather have the british government united and all working towards 1 goal so id prefer a labour government up here working with westminister.

[Jack]

The west of Scotland Labour party, as Spamheid says, will have to get their act together before they will ever get the chance to be the biggest party in Scotland again.

Wendy as arrogant as ever with the expenses fiasco.

Andy Kerr, ex-health minister being found out, taking hospitality from MacDonald’s and not declaring it [on time].

Making a complete t!t of themselves in the recent budget vote.

Being a less effective opposition than the Greens who are using their 2 seats better than Labour are using their how ever many they have.

Can the Tories ever be forgiven for the Thatcher years? Ever be trusted having sold nearly everything the government had to their money making maniac mates. Would education/health and public services be safe?

Just when you think the Liberals are saying something sensible they come out with the biggest load of *****e you’ve ever heard in your life.

SNP are getting used to the power of government but with a leader like AS who canny seem to get out of the habit of biting the ‘big’ parties ankles and sniping at Westminster as often as he can makes me think they need to mature a bit. If the Jambo wasn’t leader their leader who would be? Princess Sturgeon?

The Greens only stand for the Scottish elections because it’s the only way they can get seats (PR). Look at the candidates they put up for election last time round and the two that got in. English, weird religious beliefs, university graduates in nothing useful, wannabe upper class twats (there’s other stuff too that made me think FO when I read it) – hardly a representation of the general Scottish public. Despite that they have a platform to spout their policy of taking us back to Victorian times.

And for me there is the option to vote for Margo.




A difficult choice?

[Pretty Boy]

Labour for me, always has been, always will be.

[Peevemor]

Labour for me, always has been, always will be.

I'm sorry, but I would withdraw your right to vote. It's that way of thinking which ensures labour's stronghold in Scotland no matter what they do or what direction they take. If you're happy voting for a right wing party just because they're called 'Labour" that's fine, if not, vote for the party with policies which match your own thinking.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm sorry, but I would withdraw your right to vote. It's that way of thinking which ensures labour's stronghold in Scotland no matter what they do or what direction they take. If you're happy voting for a right wing party just because they're called 'Labour" that's fine, if not, vote for the party with policies which match your own thinking.

The whole Labour being a right wing party line gets right on my nerves. This is a line trotted out by the anti war groups with, apart from an unjust war, little or nothing to back it up. There are numerous papers published in various political journals which detail why Labour is, at worst, a centrist party. If you take the time to read them you will see your statement is ridiculously bold.

[Zeberdee]

I'm sorry, but I would withdraw your right to vote. It's that way of thinking which ensures labour's stronghold in Scotland no matter what they do or what direction they take. If you're happy voting for a right wing party just because they're called 'Labour" that's fine, if not, vote for the party with policies which match your own thinking.

you start by saying you would withdraw his right to vote but then you say if he chooses to stick by labour its fine?

Maybe it is the core beliefs he wishes to stick by. The country has done well over the last 11 or so years of labour.

[Peevemor]

The whole Labour being a right wing party line gets right on my nerves. This is a line trotted out by the anti war groups with, apart from an unjust war, little or nothing to back it up. There are numerous papers published in various political journals which detail why Labour is, at worst, a centrist party. If you take the time to read them you will see your statement is ridiculously bold.

:faf:

Labour have already changed beyond recognition since Blair. You don't know what their policies will be in 10-15 years time, yet you will continue to vote blindly for them - yet I'm the one making ridiculously bold satements... :Ummm:

If you are currently happy to vote for a "centrist" party, would you vote for, say, the Lib Dems should labour ever return to socialist roots?

[Pretty Boy]

:faf:

Labour have already changed beyond recognition since Blair. You don't know what their policies will be in 10-15 years time, yet you will continue to vote blindly for them - yet I'm the one making ridiculously bold satements... :Ummm:

If you are currently happy to vote for a "centrist" party, would you vote for, say, the Lib Dems should labour ever return to socialist roots?

I absolutely refuse not to vote on principal, i have a democratic right that others don't so i use it. The Liberals are too 'please everyone', the Tories a no go, the socialists in Scotland are a joke and believe in independence, a strictly anti-marxist, anti-socialist concept, SNP again independence is a no go for me, other parties are all too small to be taken seriously.

Your statements are indeed bold, the minimum wage, universal benefits, fairly relaxed immigration, family allowance and working tax credits are all Labour policies, they are also very much to the left of the political spectrum. Yes labour has changed but they are certainly not a right wing party, left of centre certainly. Again if you go away and read this up from respected journals you will see this illustrated far more clearly than i could ever manage and certainly more eloquently than those who write that Labour are a right wing party to suit their own political agendas.

[marinello59]

Sorry i should have supported my statement.

I dont want independence which is their ultimate goal.

But also i feel their policies are based on short term in order to gain support. For example the coucil tax freeze is just delaying the inevitable jump which is apparently nicely timed to be after the next election.
The police promised were never delivered?

Things i like are the possibility of reduced ferry prices and removal of the bridge toll and free prescriptions. but ultimately as someone in full time employment these are not major factors in who i will vote for.

With the possibility of financial melt down over the next few years i'd rather have the british government united and all working towards 1 goal so id prefer a labour government up here working with westminister.

You could throw the short termist accusation at all of the major political parties. Look at Gordon Brown down in Westminster, unable to form a policy until he can see which way the political wind is blowing. A far cry from the spin free politics he promised when he got the top job down there.

How do you think a Labour administration up here would manage to work with a Tory Westminster administration? (As may well exist after the next UK election.) Signs up here are not good where Labour basically went in to denial about being in opposition and threw the toys out of the pram. Wendy Alexander even felt the need to apologise to a UK Labour Party conference for the failure of the Scots to vote them in again. Just stop for a minute and consider the breathtaking arogance an contempt democracy that apology implied.

[Zeberdee]

You could throw the short termist accusation at all of the major political parties. Look at Gordon Brown down in Westminster, unable to form a policy until he can see which way the political wind is blowing. A far cry from the spin free politics he promised when he got the top job down there.

How do you think a Labour administration up here would manage to work with a Tory Westminster administration? (As may well exist after the next UK election.) Signs up here are not good where Labour basically went in to denial about being in opposition and threw the toys out of the pram. Wendy Alexander even felt the need to apologise to a UK Labour Party conference for the failure of the Scots to vote them in again. Just stop for a minute and consider the breathtaking arogance an contempt democracy that apology implied.

Even with those issues i still feel they are the best on offer. The snp aim for independence which would eventually ruin any good work they did do.

you talk about arrogance, have you seen john swinney recently? And as for steven stevenson, this guy should stick to the star and garter and stay away from hollyrood.

[mickeythehibbee]

For my money so far Labour have proven themselves inadequate as an opposition and thus, in my opinion not yet worth a return to government. I don't think they will ever achieve that under Wendy Alexander Imho.

The SNP have done not too bad so far, but the real test will indeed be in the long term as many of their policies do, as mentioned seem short termist. They would get my vote for the now anyway, but i'm pro independence so what do i know? :wink:

[Peevemor]

I absolutely refuse not to vote on principal, i have a democratic right that others don't so i use it. The Liberals are too 'please everyone', the Tories a no go, the socialists in Scotland are a joke and believe in independence, a strictly anti-marxist, anti-socialist concept, SNP again independence is a no go for me, other parties are all too small to be taken seriously.

Your statements are indeed bold, the minimum wage, universal benefits, fairly relaxed immigration, family allowance and working tax credits are all Labour policies, they are also very much to the left of the political spectrum. Yes labour has changed but they are certainly not a right wing party, left of centre certainly. Again if you go away and read this up from respected journals you will see this illustrated far more clearly than i could ever manage and certainly more eloquently than those who write that Labour are a right wing party to suit their own political agendas.

You obviously know what your voting for and are more politically informed than many people. This doesn't hold with your first post on the thread, where you stated that you will always vote Labour. If Labour were to continue their swing to the right, whilst at the same time their was a credible socialist alternative, I believe that you would reconsider.

My comments weren't about party politics as such, but about those that vote blindly (for whatever party) without knowing why.

I am one of those that you mentioned that does not have the right to vote (municipal elections excepted). For 3 1/2 years I've paid tax to the French government, but I have no voice as to how it is spent. This grates big style, as I never missed a single vote 'at home'. IMO, if you don't use your vote, then you don't have the right to complain.

[Bad Martini]

The SNP may very well be arrogant. Salmond is definitely arrogant, and moreover, he doesn't really try to hide it. He has no need to and if he tried, he'd be a liar.

The REASON for their arrogance, downright in the faces of the "institution" that is the government in Westminster, the "United" Kingdom Government, is to make a point.

A point, that seems to be reaching it's intended audience, albeit somewhat confused. The point mate, is to make the people see what they are doing and to declare what they are doing. They are shouting from the rooftops, possibly picking fights and declaring to all who will listen (And some who won't) the benefits of Independence because this is what they stand for.

I, like many, have supported the SNP as the only realistic vehicle to achieve Scottish Independence any time soon. The Greens are too small and all the other Nationalists are to fragmented. Be under no illusion, when the referendum is held, the deed is done and the act of union repelled, voting habits may very well change...myself included.

Dynamics...its all about dynamics.

Also, ask yourself why these apparently short term policies are coming to bear now. Also ask yourself why anyone (Forgetting political allegience) - the average punter like me - why would ANY of us willingly head into the independence abyss JUST to be worse off? We wouldnt.

Money talks and bullsheite walks....truth is, whether most people admit it or not, a whole lot of what we do is driven by what is in it for us and our families - if our LIVES will improve, we'll probably go for it ..... the same stands true for voting.

I dont vote for independence (first step of which is the SNP) because of some radge notion of tartan, shortbread, Claymores, higland glens and haggis - more off a better standard of life AND, a nation dictating OUR OWN way in the world. A basic right, we dont have. We dont decide on matters pertaining to ourselves, a remote, detached (and arguably, an uncaring) body hundreds of miles away does that, often, with scant regard for the impact HERE. Still, that could be propoganda...

Why not ask the fisherman for a start?? Im sure they'd provide a case study in progress....thanks to the UK government, our lack of representation for OUR affairs in Europe and the lack of interest BY the UK government, we are screwed by Europe and OUR fishing industry is in decline.....there are MANY more examples and that is BEFORE we get to the preferred dumping ground for the nuclear waste of the "UK" (Which as you guessed, is here).

We have resources. We have plenty resources. We've pioneered innovations in all fields for years. We even invented fitba :devil: .... we have many resources and our most valubale commodity is oil....which, is the underlying reason, and the only reason in fact, we are kept by the "UK" government.

How many times have we been called "parasites" "leaches" etc by the UK government ministers?? Scotland is "subsidised" ... if THAT WAS the case, why the **** arent THEY Trying to cut the strings with US??? If someone were leaching from you, wouldnt you do this? I sure as **** would.

As yourself WHY we are still in this "marriage" ..... you will come back to the same conclusion.

Scotland's BEST interests are best served by Scotland making decisions on SCOTLAND'S best interests....as are England, Wales etc. We are surely all best taking decisions in our own, selfish best interests. Its not being selfish, it's being sensible. Which is why small countries like Ireland and Norway are prospering and we're remaining stagnant.....

ENDOF

[Zeberdee]

the uk are one of the 5 permanent members of the security council. Scotland itself would not be. To the world we will be insignificant.

Instead of being a country on nearly 60m people who make choices for the world, we would be left to fend for ourselfs. No army of weaponry of any really use.

Earlier someone pointed out we dont know how the world will go in 15 years. That is exactly correct and with iran, korea, terrorism etc id rather be part of the nuclear family that just a crumb that watches on.

I suppose its a bit like wanting to be part of the SPL but having to put up with old firm, instead of playing in the first division just getting by with nothing really exciting happening.

[Calvin]

I can't vote but...

I was a supporter of the SNP leading up to the elections, and really liked the look of their policies. Yeah, they weren't perfect, but they were miles away from any other party.

Really though, I thought that if they took power they wouldn't do too well and would probably blow their chance. I've been pleasantly surprised in the first year. They've done a lot of good things to get the public on their side, and while I agree the test will be in their long term policies, I think that thus far they have improved their own image and through fair play too.

Wendy Alexander is just a joke IMO, I was concerned when she got in as I thought she'd do well for them, but how wrong I was.

The Tories are no-hopers, and I like the Liberal Democrats and Nicol Stephen. However, I like the idea of independence more.

[Bad Martini]

the uk are one of the 5 permanent members of the security council. Scotland itself would not be. To the world we will be insignificant.

What about the rest of the small nations in Europe? How about Ireland, Denmark, Norway...are they poor for their insignificance? In what way would be "insignificant"?


Instead of being a country on nearly 60m people who make choices for the world, we would be left to fend for ourselfs. No army of weaponry of any really use.

Correct. Nail on head the part I have emboldened...what would you rather we had...a big, **** off army, with lots of (expensive) nuclear weapons (see below) and of course, guns, a massive ammo cache and a super strong army OR, more hospitals, waiting times down, schools, public services and MORE money in YOUR pocket....?


Earlier someone pointed out we dont know how the world will go in 15 years. That is exactly correct and with iran, korea, terrorism etc id rather be part of the nuclear family that just a crumb that watches on.

Indeed. You point out (by implication) our friends just a stone's throw down the road would still have all this armory. We are a joined land mass....we would be a target...so would they :devil:

Being more pragmatic, it is NOT about severing ALL links with the UK governement completely, never speaking to them again and saying **** off as some dafties believe. In matters of SHARED importance (defence to our "Island") we would work TOGETHER..as "equals" and "Partners"....see, someone else thought aboot being blitzed as well mate...:devil:

Finally, consider who is the "winner" in an all out nuclear war.....I suggest the bacteria which is all that would survive. Would you rather we were all a few quid poorer every week in our wages to pay for nukes that when we use them, we are all totally ****ed??


I suppose its a bit like wanting to be part of the SPL but having to put up with old firm, instead of playing in the first division just getting by with nothing really exciting happening.

Not from where I am sitting. From where I am sitting, we are in the first divison with all our best players on loan, tied to some SPL clubs but we have no say when they come back though they are ours .... illegal, unfair....like the current political climate - whilst NOT illegal, definitely unfair and for my money, needs changing.

The joy, of democracy.

[AndyM_1875]

having always voted I'm not hugely encouraged to vote for anyone at any election at the moment. Whoever gets in will just carry out the same tired old agendas.

Sorry.. just the way I feel.:cool:

[Benny Brazil]

I'll go against the grain and say I would vote for the Tories:devil:

[Luna Landing]

The SNP may very well be arrogant. Salmond is definitely arrogant, and moreover, he doesn't really try to hide it. He has no need to and if he tried, he'd be a liar.

The REASON for their arrogance, downright in the faces of the "institution" that is the government in Westminster, the "United" Kingdom Government, is to make a point.

A point, that seems to be reaching it's intended audience, albeit somewhat confused. The point mate, is to make the people see what they are doing and to declare what they are doing. They are shouting from the rooftops, possibly picking fights and declaring to all who will listen (And some who won't) the benefits of Independence because this is what they stand for.

I, like many, have supported the SNP as the only realistic vehicle to achieve Scottish Independence any time soon. The Greens are too small and all the other Nationalists are to fragmented. Be under no illusion, when the referendum is held, the deed is done and the act of union repelled, voting habits may very well change...myself included.

Dynamics...its all about dynamics.

Also, ask yourself why these apparently short term policies are coming to bear now. Also ask yourself why anyone (Forgetting political allegience) - the average punter like me - why would ANY of us willingly head into the independence abyss JUST to be worse off? We wouldnt.

Money talks and bullsheite walks....truth is, whether most people admit it or not, a whole lot of what we do is driven by what is in it for us and our families - if our LIVES will improve, we'll probably go for it ..... the same stands true for voting.

I dont vote for independence (first step of which is the SNP) because of some radge notion of tartan, shortbread, Claymores, higland glens and haggis - more off a better standard of life AND, a nation dictating OUR OWN way in the world. A basic right, we dont have. We dont decide on matters pertaining to ourselves, a remote, detached (and arguably, an uncaring) body hundreds of miles away does that, often, with scant regard for the impact HERE. Still, that could be propoganda...

Why not ask the fisherman for a start?? Im sure they'd provide a case study in progress....thanks to the UK government, our lack of representation for OUR affairs in Europe and the lack of interest BY the UK government, we are screwed by Europe and OUR fishing industry is in decline.....there are MANY more examples and that is BEFORE we get to the preferred dumping ground for the nuclear waste of the "UK" (Which as you guessed, is here).

We have resources. We have plenty resources. We've pioneered innovations in all fields for years. We even invented fitba :devil: .... we have many resources and our most valubale commodity is oil....which, is the underlying reason, and the only reason in fact, we are kept by the "UK" government.

How many times have we been called "parasites" "leaches" etc by the UK government ministers?? Scotland is "subsidised" ... if THAT WAS the case, why the **** arent THEY Trying to cut the strings with US??? If someone were leaching from you, wouldnt you do this? I sure as **** would.

As yourself WHY we are still in this "marriage" ..... you will come back to the same conclusion.

Scotland's BEST interests are best served by Scotland making decisions on SCOTLAND'S best interests....as are England, Wales etc. We are surely all best taking decisions in our own, selfish best interests. Its not being selfish, it's being sensible. Which is why small countries like Ireland and Norway are prospering and we're remaining stagnant.....

ENDOF

I couldnt put it better myself . Labour in Scotland have shown themselves to be completely useless in opposition and in fact were completely useless in power as well . In addition to all of the above points they have presided over the biggest erosion of personal freedom in British history . We have the most suveillance cameras in the world , they want to hold people without charge for 54 days ( it was 90 ) without any evidence that it would help police to deal with terrorism and they want to introduce ID cards. They cant even keep all the data they collect safe and they've spent an embarrassing amount of money on IT cock-ups.

Also to claim that they are left of centre when they spend all of their time grovelling to business types to try and gather in their dodgy donations not to mention the cash for honours scandal and jobs for the boys if they get caught
in anything dodgy ie Peter Mandelsson. Sorry they long ago stopped caring about their roots .

Vote SNP for a better Scotland

[joe_hfc]

I'll go against the grain and say I would vote for the Tories:devil:

because scotland were treated sooo well by thatchers government in the 80s :duck:.

[Benny Brazil]

because scotland were treated sooo well by thatchers government in the 80s :duck:.

Of course they weren't - but this is a different era, different people and different ideas.
I would not vote for Labour due to the mess they made of running Scotland before and Wendy Alexander has to be one of the worst politicians in this country, the idea of Independance worries me so the SNP are out, the Lib Dems are just a waste of a party.
I am interested in some of the things that the Tories have been saying particularly Annabel Goldie - didn't like her at first but the more I listened to her the more convinced I was that the Tories were changing.

I know they are still unpopular in Scotland due to the Thatcher years but things change - parties change and I do believe the Tories are / have changed.

[marinello59]

you talk about arrogance, have you seen john swinney recently? And as for steven stevenson, this guy should stick to the star and garter and stay away from hollyrood.

It isn't too hard to find an arrogant politician of any political hue though is it?:greengrin I am surprised you have fingered John Swinney as one of the worst offenders though. There have been several accounts suggesting that those that he has to work with on a regular basis, (ie the Business community and senior civil servants) have been more than surprised at his willingness to find a way of getting things done. Maybe that as much an indictment of the previous administrations arrogance as it is praise for Mr Swinney though.


Of course they weren't - but this is a different era, different people and different ideas.
I would not vote for Labour due to the mess they made of running Scotland before and Wendy Alexander has to be one of the worst politicians in this country, the idea of Independance worries me so the SNP are out, the Lib Dems are just a waste of a party.
I am interested in some of the things that the Tories have been saying particularly Annabel Goldie - didn't like her at first but the more I listened to her the more convinced I was that the Tories were changing.I know they are still unpopular in Scotland due to the Thatcher years but things change - parties change and I do believe the Tories are / have changed.

I will concede that Annabel Goldie has been the most effective opposition leader since the election. I still think that she is saying completely the wrong things, however she does say them in quite a pleasant manner.:greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

SNP are the only choice. I voted for them last year for the 1st time ever and they are doing just fine.

Labour in Scotland are doon the pan....they will get nowhere with Wendy as leader...she is beyond a joke.

[Bad Martini]

I will concede that Annabel Goldie has been the most effective opposition leader since the election. I still think that she is saying completely the wrong things, however she does say them in quite a pleasant manner.:greengrin

This is spot on IMHO.

And, I must admit, she is very humerous with it ... I do like her as a politician. Now, I did NOT ever envisage saying that about anyone working for the Conservative & Unionist Party, to give them their full Sunday name.

That said, she'll never get ma vote unless she defects to fat-ecks happy-band :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Finally, the problems I see with the Torries (apart from fundamentally opposing independence which is pivotal to most of my political thinkings) is not so much what they have done in the past, it's more to do with their current policices....a lot of what they propose I could possibly agree with ... I just doubt their will to implement a whole lot of it and, as I said, they will never implement anything within an independent Scotland thus, they are oot ma voting remit....