Panorama ... anyone watching it?

[Riz]

About the torture of the British Army to Iraqis ... interesting stuff.

As well as feeling sorry for those who were "tortured" I feel also for those soldiers who did not want and did not take part but saw what happened, those nightmares will surely live with them forever ... those to are guilty of this crime should be held accountable ... I dont have much faith in any investigation into this tho .... thoughts?

[bingo70]

About the torture of the British Army to Iraqis ... interesting stuff.

As well as feeling sorry for those who were "tortured" I feel also for those soldiers who did not want and did not take part but saw what happened, those nightmares will surely live with them forever ... those to are guilty of this crime should be held accountable ... I dont have much faith in any investigation into this tho .... thoughts?

not watching the programme so maybe shouldnt comment but there was an 'article' in the sun (no seriously, there was) saying it was a disgrace this programme is getting shown as its been investigated already and theres no evidence to back up whats being said.

[Danderhall Hibs]

About the torture of the British Army to Iraqis ... interesting stuff.

As well as feeling sorry for those who were "tortured" I feel also for those soldiers who did not want and did not take part but saw what happened, those nightmares will surely live with them forever ... those to are guilty of this crime should be held accountable ... I dont have much faith in any investigation into this tho .... thoughts?


Is it Iraqi soldiers they're being accused of torturing?

[Betty Boop]

About the torture of the British Army to Iraqis ... interesting stuff.

As well as feeling sorry for those who were "tortured" I feel also for those soldiers who did not want and did not take part but saw what happened, those nightmares will surely live with them forever ... those to are guilty of this crime should be held accountable ... I dont have much faith in any investigation into this tho .... thoughts?More information Riz! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23296572/ :bitchy:

[Riz]

It is "supposed" iraqui soldiers, they claim they were farmers. There was other soldiers who were totured. Gruesome stuff. As for the msnbc article ... dont trust a thing from them... and you know why lol

[Crossgates Hibs]

not watching the programme so maybe shouldnt comment but there was an 'article' in the sun (no seriously, there was) saying it was a disgrace this programme is getting shown as its been investigated already and theres no evidence to back up whats being said.


Your right there it is a disgrace and still there is no evidence to back up anything but hey why let the facts get in the way of a story.:brickwall

[Riz]

Did you see the program Yorkie? It never said that any of it was facts, it gave both sides of the arguement with interviews and it was very interesting, no surprise that the Sun condemned the program tho... utter rag

[Danderhall Hibs]

It is "supposed" iraqui soldiers, they claim they were farmers. There was other soldiers who were totured. Gruesome stuff. As for the msnbc article ... dont trust a thing from them... and you know why lol

If it was Iraqui soldiers and not just innocents they're fair game IMO.

[SlickShoes]

If it was Iraqui soldiers and not just innocents they're fair game IMO.

Its not as if there country is being invaded is it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Its not as if there country is being invaded is it.

They're fighting us, they take what they get. I'm sure they'll not be slow to torture our boys. We need to get as much information as possible that'll help us win the war. If that's the way it needs to be done so be it.

[bingo70]

If it was Iraqui soldiers and not just innocents they're fair game IMO.

ever seen a film called "two letters from iwo jima"?, if not might be worth a watch :wink:

[Riz]

ever seen a film called "two letters from iwo jima"?, if not might be worth a watch :wink:

Yeh I seen it, great film

And torture is a WAR CRIME!!!, regardless. If they did do it then they should be jailed for life. Puts shame on other squaddies and quite frankly backs up my hatred for them, which is unfair to the decent soldiers that are there trying to make a living, altho I wish they would make a living elsewhere.

[Pretty Boy]

If it was Iraqui soldiers and not just innocents they're fair game IMO.

Unbelievable post. There is strict codes of conduct governing treatment of captured or surrendered soldiers, most detailed in the Geneva convention, no human life is 'fair game'.

[Riz]

Unbelievable post. There is strict codes of conduct governing treatment of captured or surrendered soldiers, most detailed in the Geneva convention, no human life is 'fair game'.

Spot on mate, at least it wasent just me that was shocked and disgusted in this posts lack of humanity, compassion and respect for human life! :brickwall

[jabis]

Spot on mate, at least it wasent just me that was shocked and disgusted in this posts relack of humanity, compassion and spect for human life! :brickwall

you say lack of humanity,compassion etc ,and then blithly state you "hate all squaddies".my brother spent months over there ,risking his life ,to protect and better the lives of the locals,but no you HATE him,because your so far up georgie gallaways butt youd need a sat nav to get out.
by the way when are you starting a petition to get the guy smeaton aressted
for kicking that poor guy's bollocks at glasgow airport

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[--------]

ever seen a film called "two letters from iwo jima"?, if not might be worth a watch :wink:


"TWO Letters From Iwo Jima"?

Is that the follow up to "Letters from Iwo Jima"? :confused:



We're signatories to the Geneva Conventions. Some of those conventions forbid torture of POWs. Therefore we aren't allowed to torture POWs.

Breaches of the conventions MAY just be excused if they take place in the heat of battle under hostile fire. NOT if the torturers take their victims back to barracks and work them over in the comfort and security of their own living-quarters, which (I think) is what's being alleged here. If these allegations are true, the soldiers concerned are war-criminals and should be prosecuted.

The war in Iraq is illegal under any normal definition of international law. British troops shouldn't be there. Abuses by British soldiers have been proved already - why should we just assume that these allegations aren't true?

[jabis]

agree,all war criminals should be tried.
what gets my goat are the gallowey sheep !

[Riz]

you say lack of humanity,compassion etc ,and then blithly state you "hate all squaddies".my brother spent months over there ,risking his life ,to protect and better the lives of the locals,but no you HATE him,because your so far up georgie gallaways butt youd need a sat nav to get out.
by the way when are you starting a petition to get the guy smeaton aressted
for kicking that poor guy's bollocks at glasgow airport

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I havent asked him to risk his life and if you had a brain in your head you would be supporting people like George Galloway in order to get your brother OUT of harms way and OUT of a country that doesnt need him there and doesnt want him there. They are only there to protect the Oil reserves and keep rich people rich and more so poor people poor.

I think its ironic that you assume Im a fan of george galloway just because I disagree with the war in Iraq. For what its worth (which to you isnt alot) I am not a massive fan of George Galloway, its true he has suppoorted me and thanked me for my support of him etc but I do not agree with all he says just like he dont agree with all I say! He dosent believe 7/7 and 9/11 were inside jobs, he has gone as far as to say those that do are not far short of nut jobs. I take great offence at this and I think he is missing a large amount of evidence and missing and disrespecting alot of people by saying this.

Furthermore, I may HATE squaddies but I wish death on noone, I dont want any family to grieve, regardless of thier race, religion, colour, creed or politics. I believe that we as the UK public have been fed a pack of lies and that UK troops are suffering as a result, hence the reason I have protested and marched against the war, I have spoke publically on radio and tv, to magazines and newspapers about this and shown my support for people like Rose Gentle who I have spoken to at length, and I will continue with my support. I WILL NOT let my persona opinions on people and organisations stop helping people for the common good of the common man, if you cannot differentuate the two then Im affraid I cant help you.

As for John Smeaton, he is a disgrace, he sums up this country perfectly and the lies fed to it and the sheep mentality of people who follow the government spin doctors, he should not in anyway have said what he did say to the press, altho I believe his words have been twisted and he never expected all of this and has been used in a pawn in a massive chess game to get the "common" man onside. I pitty John more than dislike him. I remeber for instance when the Glasgow "bomb" (thats a joke cos there was no bomb!!) threat happened ... he was on tv saying "it was a rare dunt, the guy went down and we all got a dig into him" this was quickly edited as the BBC (english) presenters had no idea what he was saying, it was then all edited to the old "this is Glasgow" .... a press officers dream for the man on the street to say this and then sell it to the masses. Personally, I commend him for tackling the guy and bringing him down. What I dont commend is his instant assumption it was terrorists, that he got a "dig" into a man who was on fire (I mean the guys not gonna be struggling to fight back), I dont like the comments he made about Bin Laden the day after WTF? I dont like the fact he never mentioned the work his collegues did, only bigging up himself, I dont like the fact he shown the guy no compassion (terrorist or not) and I dont like the fact that he is now Head of Security at Glagow airport because of this!!! (Altho Im not sure if this is true or not).

All in all he was in the right place at the right time and hardly did the right thing now did he!? And this makes him a hero does it? Nah not in my book, a hero is a guy who saves lives, not takes them, a hero is a guy that selfishly puts himself out there day after day after day for others, such as firemen and yes some soldiers. This man is no hero of mine. He is a racist, and the worst kind...he doesnt even know it!

[Riz]

"TWO Letters From Iwo Jima"?

Is that the follow up to "Letters from Iwo Jima"? :confused:



We're signatories to the geneva Conventions. Some of those conventions forbid torture of POWs. Therefore we aren't allowed to torture POWs.

Breaches of the conventions MAY just be excused if they take place in the heat of battle under hostile fire. NOT if the torturers take their victims back to barracks and work them over in the comfort and security of their own living-quarters, which (I think) is what's being alleged here. If these allegations are true, the soldiers concerned are war-criminals and should be prosecuted.

The war in Iraq is illegal under any normal definition of international law. British troops shouldn't be there. Abuses by British soldiers have been proved already - why should we just assume that these allegations aren't true?

Spot on! :thumbsup:

also...are you refering to the two films directed by Clint Eastwood?

[--------]

Spot on! :thumbsup:

also...are you refering to the two films directed by Clint Eastwood?


There's ONE film by Clint Eastwood called "Letters from Iwo Jima".

There's another by him called "Flags of Our Fathers".

Bother are exceptional films that left me with a huge amount to think about. "Letters from Iwo Jima" left me in tears.

In these films Eastwood makes mention of a true incident when an American Marine was captured by the Japanese, taken down into the tunnels under Mt Suribachi, mutilated and tortured to death. THAT is a war crime. It would be a war crime regardless of who did it. In "Letters" he also shows another true incident where a heavily-wounded Marine was taken prisoner by the Japanese and cared for until he died.

Every nation has its thugs and criminals, Britain as much as anyone, and the British Army has atrocities in its history like all others. I'm NOT saying that these particular allegations are true; what I AM saying is that we have NO right to discount them out of hand, either because "British soldiers don't do that sort of thing" (they have in the past) or because "they're Iraqis and they'd probably do it to our boys" (two wrongs don't make a right".

BTW - brutalising prisoners is much more common in conflicts where there's a marked racial difference between the combatants than otherwise. Iraq qualifies on that one count at least.

[jabis]

I havent asked him to risk his life and if you had a brain in your head you would be supporting people like George Galloway in order to get your brother OUT of harms way and OUT of a country that doesnt need him there and doesnt want him there. They are only there to protect the Oil reserves and keep rich people rich and more so poor people poor.

I think its ironic that you assume Im a fan of george galloway just because I disagree with the war in Iraq. For what its worth (which to you isnt alot) I am not a massive fan of George Galloway, its true he has suppoorted me and thanked me for my support of him etc but I do not agree with all he says just like he dont agree with all I say! He dosent believe 7/7 and 9/11 were inside jobs, he has gone as far as to say those that do are not far short of nut jobs. I take great offence at this and I think he is missing a large amount of evidence and missing and disrespecting alot of people by saying this.

Furthermore, I may HATE squaddies but I wish death on noone, I dont want any family to grieve, regardless of thier race, religion, colour, creed or politics. I believe that we as the UK public have been fed a pack of lies and that UK troops are suffering as a result, hence the reason I have protested and marched against the war, I have spoke publically on radio and tv, to magazines and newspapers about this and shown my support for people like Rose Gentle who I have spoken to at length, and I will continue with my support. I WILL NOT let my persona opinions on people and organisations stop helping people for the common good of the common man, if you cannot differentuate the two then Im affraid I cant help you.

As for John Smeaton, he is a disgrace, he sums up this country perfectly and the lies fed to it and the sheep mentality of people who follow the government spin doctors, he should not in anyway have said what he did say to the press, altho I believe his words have been twisted and he never expected all of this and has been used in a pawn in a massive chess game to get the "common" man onside. I pitty John more than dislike him. I remeber for instance when the Glasgow "bomb" (thats a joke cos there was no bomb!!) threat happened ... he was on tv saying "it was a rare dunt, the guy went down and we all got a dig into him" this was quickly edited as the BBC (english) presenters had no idea what he was saying, it was then all edited to the old "this is Glasgow" .... a press officers dream for the man on the street to say this and then sell it to the masses. Personally, I commend him for tackling the guy and bringing him down. What I dont commend is his instant assumption it was terrorists, that he got a "dig" into a man who was on fire (I mean the guys not gonna be struggling to fight back), I dont like the comments he made about Bin Laden the day after WTF? I dont like the fact he never mentioned the work his collegues did, only bigging up himself, I dont like the fact he shown the guy no compassion (terrorist or not) and I dont like the fact that he is now Head of Security at Glagow airport because of this!!! (Altho Im not sure if this is true or not).

All in all he was in the right place at the right time and hardly did the right thing now did he!? And this makes him a hero does it? Nah not in my book, a hero is a guy who saves lives, not takes them, a hero is a guy that selfishly puts himself out there day after day after day for others, such as firemen and yes some soldiers. This man is no hero of mine. He is a racist, and the worst kind...he doesnt even know it!

got up to para 3,then lost the will to live.i really really hope you edit.

[jabis]

got 2 lines into para 4 :top marks:shocked:

[SlickShoes]

As for John Smeaton, he is a disgrace, he sums up this country perfectly and the lies fed to it and the sheep mentality of people who follow the government spin doctors, he should not in anyway have said what he did say to the press, altho I believe his words have been twisted and he never expected all of this and has been used in a pawn in a massive chess game to get the "common" man onside. I pitty John more than dislike him. I remeber for instance when the Glasgow "bomb" (thats a joke cos there was no bomb!!) threat happened ... he was on tv saying "it was a rare dunt, the guy went down and we all got a dig into him" this was quickly edited as the BBC (english) presenters had no idea what he was saying, it was then all edited to the old "this is Glasgow" .... a press officers dream for the man on the street to say this and then sell it to the masses. Personally, I commend him for tackling the guy and bringing him down. What I dont commend is his instant assumption it was terrorists, that he got a "dig" into a man who was on fire (I mean the guys not gonna be struggling to fight back), I dont like the comments he made about Bin Laden the day after WTF? I dont like the fact he never mentioned the work his collegues did, only bigging up himself, I dont like the fact he shown the guy no compassion (terrorist or not) and I dont like the fact that he is now Head of Security at Glagow airport because of this!!! (Altho Im not sure if this is true or not).

All in all he was in the right place at the right time and hardly did the right thing now did he!? And this makes him a hero does it? Nah not in my book, a hero is a guy who saves lives, not takes them, a hero is a guy that selfishly puts himself out there day after day after day for others, such as firemen and yes some soldiers. This man is no hero of mine. He is a racist, and the worst kind...he doesnt even know it!

My god i cant believe the utter rubbish you type sometimes, hes a racist because he tackled a man on fire that was attacking a police officer, a police officer who was doing his job and was ATTACKED! You have yet to provide any information on how he is a racist?

Every time i hear the guy talk he bleats on about the other folk that helped.

A racist who does not know it is NOT the worst kind of racist, its someone who has not been properly educated.

He is NOT head of security at glasgow airport, hes head of security for a freaking car park!

[Riz]

There's ONE film by Clint Eastwood called "Letters from Iwo Jima".

There's another by him called "Flags of Our Fathers".

Bother are exceptional films that left me with a huge amount to think about. "Letters from Iwo Jima" left me in tears.

In these films Eastwood makes mention of a true incident when an American Marine was captured by the Japanese, taken down into the tunnels under Mt Suribachi, mutilated and tortured to death. THAT is a war crime. It would be a war crime regardless of who did it. In "Letters" he also shows another true incident where a heavily-wounded Marine was taken prisoner by the Japanese and cared for until he died.

Every nation has its thugs and criminals, Britain as much as anyone, and the British Army has atrocities in its history like all others. I'm NOT saying that these particular allegations are true; what I AM saying is that we have NO right to discount them out of hand, either because "British soldiers don't do that sort of thing" (they have in the past) or because "they're Iraqis and they'd probably do it to our boys" (two wrongs don't make a right".

BTW - brutalising prisoners is much more common in conflicts where there's a marked racial difference between the combatants than otherwise. Iraq qualifies on that one count at least.

Spot on mate, spot on!!

@ Jabis...why are you shocked? To be honest I thought you would disagree, but glad you agree...I think? :agree:

[Riz]

My god i cant believe the utter rubbish you type sometimes, hes a racist because he tackled a man on fire that was attacking a police officer, a police officer who was doing his job and was ATTACKED! You have yet to provide any information on how he is a racist?

Every time i hear the guy talk he bleats on about the other folk that helped.

A racist who does not know it is NOT the worst kind of racist, its someone who has not been properly educated.

He is NOT head of security at glasgow airport, hes head of security for a freaking car park!

I wasent sure on the info so you corrected me on the car park thing, thanks, altho I think thats totally daft!

Also, you are jumping to conclusions as to why I said he is racist. I say so because he summed up Islam and made assumptions on Asian people being terrorists and also made a direct link (in his pea brain) to Al Queda and the Taliban (totally different organisations) , ontop of that was mentioning "black people" and Bin Laden and Scottish Asians in MASSIVE SWEEPING GENERALISATIONS!

[SlickShoes]

I wasent sure on the info so you corrected me on the car park thing, thanks, altho I think thats totally daft!

Also, you are jumping to conclusions as to why I said he is racist. I say so because he summed up Islam and made assumptions on Asian people being terrorists and also made a direct link (in his pea brain) to Al Queda and the Taliban (totally different organisations) , ontop of that was mentioning "black people" and Bin Laden and Scottish Asians in MASSIVE SWEEPING GENERALISATIONS!

Thanks now you have cleared that up aswell, from my point of view all you were doing to say he was racist was taht he attacked the guy on fire so thats why i took issue with it but now youve youve made it more clear so thanks. Any links to any of the stuff he said so i can have a look, i am quite firmly against racism having done some stuff for LMHR and anti racist action in the past. thanks.

[marinello59]

I wasent sure on the info so you corrected me on the car park thing, thanks, altho I think thats totally daft!

Also, you are jumping to conclusions as to why I said he is racist. I say so because he summed up Islam and made assumptions on Asian people being terrorists and also made a direct link (in his pea brain) to Al Queda and the Taliban (totally different organisations) , ontop of that was mentioning "black people" and Bin Laden and Scottish Asians in MASSIVE SWEEPING GENERALISATIONS!

You said he a racist because it suits you to think that to fit in with your view of the world, no other reason. No facts to back it up or evidence.
Really you are the strangest socialist that I have ever come across given that on this thread and others your utter contempt for those that are working class comes across loud and clear.

[Sergio sledge]

I havent asked him to risk his life and if you had a brain in your head you would be supporting people like George Galloway in order to get your brother OUT of harms way and OUT of a country that doesnt need him there and doesnt want him there. They are only there to protect the Oil reserves and keep rich people rich and more so poor people poor.

I think its ironic that you assume Im a fan of george galloway just because I disagree with the war in Iraq. For what its worth (which to you isnt alot) I am not a massive fan of George Galloway, its true he has suppoorted me and thanked me for my support of him etc but I do not agree with all he says just like he dont agree with all I say! He dosent believe 7/7 and 9/11 were inside jobs, he has gone as far as to say those that do are not far short of nut jobs. I take great offence at this and I think he is missing a large amount of evidence and missing and disrespecting alot of people by saying this.

Furthermore, I may HATE squaddies but I wish death on noone, I dont want any family to grieve, regardless of thier race, religion, colour, creed or politics. I believe that we as the UK public have been fed a pack of lies and that UK troops are suffering as a result, hence the reason I have protested and marched against the war, I have spoke publically on radio and tv, to magazines and newspapers about this and shown my support for people like Rose Gentle who I have spoken to at length, and I will continue with my support. I WILL NOT let my persona opinions on people and organisations stop helping people for the common good of the common man, if you cannot differentuate the two then Im affraid I cant help you.

No you haven't, but its his job. Its how he earns his living, it's how he supports his family. (if he has any) Because the guy has decided to do his job you hate him? As far as I'm aware, deserters get a few years in prison and a dishonourable discharge which goes on their criminal record. You'll forgive me if I don't hate the guys for choosing to do their job rather than going to prison and having a criminal record, quite possibly with no other qualifications The people you should be directing your disdain at are the rulers and decision makers in the country, not the ordinary "working class" people who have to live with those decisions. Despite what George Galloway says about the war (and I am anti war BTW) I cannot support him because he supported Saddam Hussein, who was a war criminal and did order various atrocities in his country.

As to your "brain" comment, I've said it to you before, maybe you should engage your own one before talking sometimes as you don't help your cause (which I kind of agree with in this case) by throwing in insults like that. :greengrin


As for John Smeaton, he is a disgrace, he sums up this country perfectly and the lies fed to it and the sheep mentality of people who follow the government spin doctors, he should not in anyway have said what he did say to the press, altho I believe his words have been twisted and he never expected all of this and has been used in a pawn in a massive chess game to get the "common" man onside. I pitty John more than dislike him. I remeber for instance when the Glasgow "bomb" (thats a joke cos there was no bomb!!) threat happened ... he was on tv saying "it was a rare dunt, the guy went down and we all got a dig into him" this was quickly edited as the BBC (english) presenters had no idea what he was saying, it was then all edited to the old "this is Glasgow" .... a press officers dream for the man on the street to say this and then sell it to the masses. Personally, I commend him for tackling the guy and bringing him down. What I dont commend is his instant assumption it was terrorists, that he got a "dig" into a man who was on fire (I mean the guys not gonna be struggling to fight back), I dont like the comments he made about Bin Laden the day after WTF? I dont like the fact he never mentioned the work his collegues did, only bigging up himself, I dont like the fact he shown the guy no compassion (terrorist or not) and I dont like the fact that he is now Head of Security at Glagow airport because of this!!! (Altho Im not sure if this is true or not).

All in all he was in the right place at the right time and hardly did the right thing now did he!? And this makes him a hero does it? Nah not in my book, a hero is a guy who saves lives, not takes them, a hero is a guy that selfishly puts himself out there day after day after day for others, such as firemen and yes some soldiers. This man is no hero of mine. He is a racist, and the worst kind...he doesnt even know it!

Everytime I have heard John Smeaton speak he has praised the other people involved as well, so that is an unfair criticism.

If you are in Glasgow airport, and a car crashes through the doors, explodes and goes on fire, (which is extremely rare in an ordinary accident) a guy falls out the car, and then starts to attack a policeman who goes to help, what would you do? Stand by and let the policeman be beaten and burned, possibly even killed? I know what I would do, but I suppose I would get your hate for helping the policeman out too. John Smeaton may not be as much of a hero as some others, but I'm sure to that policeman he is a hero, (along with all the others) as he quite probably saved his life.

I've never seen or heard the alleged racist comments, so I can't comment on them, are they available online anywhere?

[jabis]

Spot on mate, spot on!!

@ Jabis...why are you shocked? To be honest I thought you would disagree, but glad you agree...I think? :agree:

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR STUPID RANTS

[Betty Boop]

I havent asked him to risk his life and if you had a brain in your head you would be supporting people like George Galloway in order to get your brother OUT of harms way and OUT of a country that doesnt need him there and doesnt want him there. They are only there to protect the Oil reserves and keep rich people rich and more so poor people poor.

I think its ironic that you assume Im a fan of george galloway just because I disagree with the war in Iraq. For what its worth (which to you isnt alot) I am not a massive fan of George Galloway, its true he has suppoorted me and thanked me for my support of him etc but I do not agree with all he says just like he dont agree with all I say! He dosent believe 7/7 and 9/11 were inside jobs, he has gone as far as to say those that do are not far short of nut jobs. I take great offence at this and I think he is missing a large amount of evidence and missing and disrespecting alot of people by saying this.

Furthermore, I may HATE squaddies but I wish death on noone, I dont want any family to grieve, regardless of thier race, religion, colour, creed or politics. I believe that we as the UK public have been fed a pack of lies and that UK troops are suffering as a result, hence the reason I have protested and marched against the war, I have spoke publically on radio and tv, to magazines and newspapers about this and shown my support for people like Rose Gentle who I have spoken to at length, and I will continue with my support. I WILL NOT let my persona opinions on people and organisations stop helping people for the common good of the common man, if you cannot differentuate the two then Im affraid I cant help you.

As for John Smeaton, he is a disgrace, he sums up this country perfectly and the lies fed to it and the sheep mentality of people who follow the government spin doctors, he should not in anyway have said what he did say to the press, altho I believe his words have been twisted and he never expected all of this and has been used in a pawn in a massive chess game to get the "common" man onside. I pitty John more than dislike him. I remeber for instance when the Glasgow "bomb" (thats a joke cos there was no bomb!!) threat happened ... he was on tv saying "it was a rare dunt, the guy went down and we all got a dig into him" this was quickly edited as the BBC (english) presenters had no idea what he was saying, it was then all edited to the old "this is Glasgow" .... a press officers dream for the man on the street to say this and then sell it to the masses. Personally, I commend him for tackling the guy and bringing him down. What I dont commend is his instant assumption it was terrorists, that he got a "dig" into a man who was on fire (I mean the guys not gonna be struggling to fight back), I dont like the comments he made about Bin Laden the day after WTF? I dont like the fact he never mentioned the work his collegues did, only bigging up himself, I dont like the fact he shown the guy no compassion (terrorist or not) and I dont like the fact that he is now Head of Security at Glagow airport because of this!!! (Altho Im not sure if this is true or not).

All in all he was in the right place at the right time and hardly did the right thing now did he!? And this makes him a hero does it? Nah not in my book, a hero is a guy who saves lives, not takes them, a hero is a guy that selfishly puts himself out there day after day after day for others, such as firemen and yes some soldiers. This man is no hero of mine. He is a racist, and the worst kind...he doesnt even know it! Gorgeous George Galloway is on Question Time tonight! :greengrin

[Riz]

Thanks now you have cleared that up aswell, from my point of view all you were doing to say he was racist was taht he attacked the guy on fire so thats why i took issue with it but now youve youve made it more clear so thanks. Any links to any of the stuff he said so i can have a look, i am quite firmly against racism having done some stuff for LMHR and anti racist action in the past. thanks.

Yeh mate, Ive done a few things for them in the past.
As for links, they are few and far between, I will keep looking tho. Seems that he got a PR guy to clean up his mess lol

[Riz]

You said he a racist because it suits you to think that to fit in with your view of the world, no other reason. No facts to back it up or evidence.
Really you are the strangest socialist that I have ever come across given that on this thread and others your utter contempt for those that are working class comes across loud and clear.

What utter nonsense...and you say Im speaking rubbish. There is a difference between supporting your local community and letting them run-a-mock!

I am socialist by definition, but a people person by belief. I never put any label on me, others do that the pigeon hole things. The are things I am conservative about, and things I am liberal about. No one man or woman can be utterly one thing, its against our free choice as human beings.

I never said he was racist just to fit into "my world" I think anyone who classes this guy as a hero is utterly insane and has nothing but contempt for the human race and any religion that isnt Christian, but hey thats my opinion, personally I feel if you cant see what the majority of what this guy says wrong then I dont hate you, I pitty you and the generations that have to grow around you. Simple as that. I only hope that one day you see sense and see this guy for what he is, and he dame sure aint a hero...a pawn molded and shaped into what the media want, yes, a misguided guy who thought he was doing right, yes, but a fool all the same.

[Riz]

Sergio...you mention that I should vent my anger at the government that send these guys out to war... I agree with you totally and completely on that count, however what I will say is it starts from the bottom up...Firstly I do vent anger at the politicians and policies that sent these lads out there, thats never been in question.

Secondly, these lads should ALL desert and ALL rebel against the masters that are keeping them there, the masters who care not a jot for their lives, their families, there livelihoods, I mean these guys are not even given the proper equipment!!! The are not equipped with Land mine detectors, Dragon Skin armour or anything that could really benefit them in the field. Strange as it may sound to you and others, I DO SUPPORT the troops in the context that they shouldnt be there, they should be home, safe not out dying on forgin soil for a rich mans greed.

As for the police man being attacked, well you know my feelings on them, despite that yes I would have jumped in, without question, and anyone who know me knows that to be 100% the truth, however, I would also have helped the fire out on the guy and held him down rather than getting a "right dunt" into him! Theres one things stopping a guy, its quite another to lay into a guy who is on fire (and clearly not all thier in the head!)

[Riz]

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR STUPID RANTS

Just so long as we know where we are ... :bye:

[Sergio sledge]

Sergio...you mention that I should vent my anger at the government that send these guys out to war... I agree with you totally and completely on that count, however what I will say is it starts from the bottom up...Firstly I do vent anger at the politicians and policies that sent these lads out there, thats never been in question.

Secondly, these lads should ALL desert and ALL rebel against the masters that are keeping them there, the masters who care not a jot for their lives, their families, there livelihoods, I mean these guys are not even given the proper equipment!!! The are not equipped with Land mine detectors, Dragon Skin armour or anything that could really benefit them in the field. Strange as it may sound to you and others, I DO SUPPORT the troops in the context that they shouldnt be there, they should be home, safe not out dying on forgin soil for a rich mans greed.

As for the police man being attacked, well you know my feelings on them, despite that yes I would have jumped in, without question, and anyone who know me knows that to be 100% the truth, however, I would also have helped the fire out on the guy and held him down rather than getting a "right dunt" into him! Theres one things stopping a guy, its quite another to lay into a guy who is on fire (and clearly not all thier in the head!)

Fair enough mate, I guess I probably would have tried to put the fire out too, but I'm not so sure the guy wanted to have the fire put out. I guess we'd never know how we'd react unless we were there. :agree:

Re. the soldiers, I understand your viewpoint, but I'm still unsure as to why you "hate" squaddies. I'm not going to criticise them for making the choice to do their job, it is up to each individual what they do. I just think hating them because of it is a bit strong.

[Riz]

Re. the soldiers, I understand your viewpoint, but I'm still unsure as to why you "hate" squaddies. I'm not going to criticise them for making the choice to do their job, it is up to each individual what they do. I just think hating them because of it is a bit strong.

Put simply mate, Northern Ireland ... and the Class system within the army itself...

[marinello59]

What utter nonsense...and you say Im speaking rubbish. There is a difference between supporting your local community and letting them run-a-mock!

I am socialist by definition, but a people person by belief. I never put any label on me, others do that the pigeon hole things. The are things I am conservative about, and things I am liberal about. No one man or woman can be utterly one thing, its against our free choice as human beings.

I never said he was racist just to fit into "my world" I think anyone who classes this guy as a hero is utterly insane and has nothing but contempt for the human race and any religion that isnt Christian, but hey thats my opinion, personally I feel if you cant see what the majority of what this guy says wrong then I dont hate you, I pitty you and the generations that have to grow around you. Simple as that. I only hope that one day you see sense and see this guy for what he is, and he dame sure aint a hero...a pawn molded and shaped into what the media want, yes, a misguided guy who thought he was doing right, yes, but a fool all the same.



Congratulations Riz. In your one man quest to discover just how far up his own areshole one man can go you have boldly gone where no man has gone before.
Everybody that disagrees with your world viewpoint is to be pitied, hated or dismissed as being of less than average intelligence. That is not debating, it is ranting.

[Riz]

Not true ..... I am expected to back up my claims and accusation, of which for the most part I have done, I ask others to do so also. Thats not been done. I am entirely entitled to say what I feel on a forum... further more its far from a One man mission when you look at the support for the Anti-War movement and the Pro Truth movements amongst many others. Simply being in the minority and posting on a site that doesnt usually discuss such topics etc FAR from makes me wrong.

The minority yes, wrong? far from it? Up my own erse? You dont even know me so please refrain from such idiotic accusations. However, If having the interests of others at heart before my own then I am guilty as charged? Is it so hard to believe this so much, if so again it speaks more for others opinions than it does mine.

Yours most respectfully.

[cabbageandribs1875]

FAO master debater citizen riz http://www.snp.org/ :na na: get yerself signed up :cool2:

[marinello59]

Not true ..... I am expected to back up my claims and accusation, of which for the most part I have done, I ask others to do so also. Thats not been done. I am entirely entitled to say what I feel on a forum... further more its far from a One man mission when you look at the support for the Anti-War movement and the Pro Truth movements amongst many others. Simply being in the minority and posting on a site that doesnt usually discuss such topics etc FAR from makes me wrong.

The minority yes, wrong? far from it? Up my own erse? You dont even know me so please refrain from such idiotic accusations. However, If having the interests of others at heart before my own then I am guilty as charged? Is it so hard to believe this so much, if so again it speaks more for others opinions than it does mine.

Yours most respectfully.


Whee have I said you couldn't express your viewpoint?:confused: Where have I criticised tthe anti-war movement?:confused: Where have I said that holding a minority view makes you wrong?:confused:

[Riz]

FAO master debater citizen riz http://www.snp.org/ :na na: get yerself signed up :cool2:

Not interested in the SNP or empty promises mate sorry :greengrin thanks anyway :cool2:

[Riz]

Whee have I said you couldn't express your viewpoint?:confused: Where have I criticised tthe anti-war movement?:confused: Where have I said that holding a minority view makes you wrong?:confused:


because of this^^^ and a few other posts, not all by you I may add. I do apologise if I took them the wrong way however, but after being told I am up my own erse when Im clearly not its hard to see it any other way?

[AndyP]

Put simply mate, Northern Ireland ... and the Class system within the army itself...

What ****ing class system, empirical evidence please and try and keep it from the time that the British Army started following doctrines(makes it about mid - late 70s btw).

[jabis]

because of this^^^ and a few other posts, not all by you I may add. I do apologise if I took them the wrong way however, but after being told I am up my own erse when Im clearly not its hard to see it any other way?

and here we go with the "oh ! poor me,misenterprited by the sad undereducated masses.
you are SOOOO Mr Riz (you made that name up YOURSELF)nae mates,you have to media prostitute yourself "I'VE BEEN ON THE TELLY,RADIO,NEWSPAPERS and fucin magazines





soooooo sad .and now you want to sarcastically apologize AGAIN !


sorry admin,but this guy on the wind

[Riz]

Your just a hater and the negativity just pours out of you. I unlike you can see the good in all and would be willing to help push, promote and support any good cause/program, you on the other hand just want to bad mouth, knock down and make flippant remarks about someone you dont even know .... I pity you.

How the hell have I prostituted myself?

PS sorry admin but this guys a clown :greengrin:dummytit::bye:

[Riz]

What ****ing class system, empirical evidence please and try and keep it from the time that the British Army started following doctrines(makes it about mid - late 70s btw).

Sorry Andy, Im not even going to debate with you, (Im sure you will be glad of that) seeing your avatar

[AndyP]

Sorry Andy, Im not even going to debate with you, (Im sure you will be glad of that) seeing your avatar


Why no debate, is it because you actually do not have facts to back up your position.

I'll make it easy, I will not speak for the regiments of the line ie Infantry and Cavalry but will speak from first hand and give empirical references that will refute your original claim. Granted you might have to actually do some digging to get the info but it is out there.

[jabis]

if he's still digging he must have an aufy wee spade :asshole::shotdowni

[Riz]

Your entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. Personally what ironic is after all thats said and done I'm on your side. The troops shouldn't be there, a death is a death and blood spilled no mater the race, religion, colour or creed is wrong. I feel sorry for poor kids being sent to their deaths and (in my opinion) brainwashed adults who in the deepest depths of their heart think they are doing this for the better, when in actual fact they are pawns in a massive board game that they will never benefit from.

[jabis]

yippee,you're still here.
ocasionally i like to get the blood pressure going,my doctor reccomended the "RIZ"course.After consulting a self obsessed,galloyway obsessed,government obsessed,blair killed JFK obsessed friend (i do have them),he told me the course didn't work !
more fool him :devil:

[Riz]

yippee,you're still here.
ocasionally i like to get the blood pressure going,my doctor reccomended the "RIZ"course.After consulting a self obsessed,galloyway obsessed,government obsessed,blair killed JFK obsessed friend (i do have them),he told me the course didn't work !
more fool him :devil:

You actually want that credited with a response?... and dont get obsession and passion mixed up, awareness and brainwashed are not the same thing either. If you dont agree then you dont agree, if you think my opinions are crazy then so be it. I personally think your insane for not sharing the same opinion, but at least you are free to have your opinion on here, others dont seem to have the same luxury unfortunately. Altho opinions... we are all entitled to them.