Hampden or Murrayfield?

[Renfrew_Hibby]

So footballs been saved for the Weedgies, it's the last thing they have to hang on to. Phew, losing to Edinburgh over football would have been like giving an entire region the snip. Their masculinity is still intact.

Now that's it's Hampden the debate should end over where the venue should be and the plan to rebuild Hampden should begin.
Now if money was no object and we were in a parallel universe then the whole site would be flattened and we would start from scratch. With the size of the site then anything would be possible.

Sadly we live in this particular universe so what can be done with the present ground?
There's not many examples of redeveloping a running track stadium into a traditional football venue, I can think of only three successful examples.
Celtic, Stuttgart and Udinese. The likes of Juventus and Wembley don't count because they were complete rebuilds and we don't have the cash for that.

For me Stuttgart is the model we should be looking at. They only redeveloped the two curved ends and only slightly remodeled the two sideline stands. The pitch was lowered so as to bring the sideline stands tighter to the pitch. Doing this at Hampden would add 4,000 to the capacity before you even talk about the curved ends.
The North stand would also need to be made steeper and slightly more leg room wouldn't go a miss. The South is fine as it is. The only real issue would be how the new end stands would be integrated into the existing north and south stands.
A finished stadium with a capacity of around 60,000 should be achievable.

[hughio]

Nae Nookie for SFA president.

[ancient hibee]

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Nae Nookie for SFA president.

What makes you think he gets any?

[ballengeich]

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For me. A brand new national stadium somewhere near Bannockburn/Stirling with better road and rail links. Pay for a chunk of it by selling both Hampden and Murrayfield. Been saying it for years

That's probably not financially practical now. The opportunity to have one national stadium was lost some years ago when the SFA and SRU both spent a lot of money on doing up their own stadium. That was the time to take a decision to emulate Wales and bring football and rugby together and halving redevelopment and on-going maintenance costs, whether at Hampden, Murrayfield or on a new site is relatively immaterial.

[where'stheslope]

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this, all of it


i've no idea why some take delight in calling our national stadium 'Hamdump" it's not a dump and neither is the housing around it, although the stand roofs could do with a wee lick o paint for the aerial shots


p.s. and square those ends of

Quick question, SFA can't afford the full £5 million to buy Hampden, hence 2 people weighing in £2.5 million to help buy it, where are the SFA going to get £40/50 million to refurbish the stadium????

Answers on a postcard to SFA offices Hampden!!!!

[Radium]

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Quick question, SFA can't afford the full £5 million to buy Hampden, hence 2 people weighing in £2.5 million to help buy it, where are the SFA going to get £40/50 million to refurbish the stadium????

Answers on a postcard to SFA offices Hampden!!!!

It's not just the cash cost:

"The SFA will pay £5m to the Scottish League Two side, although they say the total value of the deal will be in the region of £19m when liabilities to those involved in redeveloping the stadium in 1998 are taken into account."

http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...t-hampden-park

My reading of that is that they start their ownership £14M in debt not including what they have to do to raise/ deal with handing over £2.5M in cash

[Juniper Greens]

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It's not just the cash cost:

"The SFA will pay £5m to the Scottish League Two side, although they say the total value of the deal will be in the region of £19m when liabilities to those involved in redeveloping the stadium in 1998 are taken into account."

http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...t-hampden-park

My reading of that is that they start their ownership £14M in debt not including what they have to do to raise/ deal with handing over £2.5M in cash

No, I believe these are grants that were awarded in 1998, that would be repayable in the event Hampden stopped being used as a football stadium. I think it's similar to how if Chelsea moved away, they couldn't sell Stamford Bridge, as someone else had gifted them the land with similar conditions.

[monarch]

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It's not just the cash cost:

"The SFA will pay £5m to the Scottish League Two side, although they say the total value of the deal will be in the region of £19m when liabilities to those involved in redeveloping the stadium in 1998 are taken into account."

http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...t-hampden-park

My reading of that is that they start their ownership £14M in debt not including what they have to do to raise/ deal with handing over £2.5M in cash

Well that will be the end any hope of investment into grass roots football or the mystical indoor full size pitches (Iceland have six of them !).

[Renfrew_Hibby]

What are Queens Park going to do with £5M?

[Peevemor]

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What are Queens Park going to do with £5M?

Upgrade Lesser Hampden to use as their new home.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Why would a shared national stadium in a central location be a white elephant?

A purpose built stadium which presumably would have multiple facilities for Scottish sports.

Keen to hear your rationale.

How did you feel when it was proposed that Hibs relocate to Straiton?

All the reasons that that was a crap idea apply to a purpose built soulless dome in the middle of the country.

[JimBHibees]

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Well that will be the end any hope of investment into grass roots football or the mystical indoor full size pitches (Iceland have six of them !).

Seven indoors and 30 outdoors plus smaller indoor ones. This was taken from a BBC article about them after they beat England in the Euros.

It's cold in Iceland. The average temperature in the warmest month is only 10-13C (50F-55F).

But more pertinently than that, it's dark in Iceland. There are nearly 20 hours of night-time in December. It's not ideal for practising football.

So the country has ploughed money in to indoor facilities for the sport over the past 15 years.

Iceland's football association (KSI) has overseen investment in 30 full-size all-weather pitches, seven of which are indoors, and almost 150 smaller artificial arenas.

[lord bunberry]

One of the problems at Hampden is for semi finals and other games that aren’t going to sell out they insist on selling tickets in sections. You can end up with an absolutely **** seat down the front when there’s thousands of better seats lying empty. When I’m at the game I couldn’t give a **** how the stadium looks to tv viewers. It’s absolute madness.

[Keith_M]

RE: Re-developing Hampden.

Replacing the curved North and South stands with stands of a similar height, but closer to the pitch would mean a reduction in capacity, so they would obviously have to be built much higher, most likely two tier. They're going to have to join up with the North and South at some point, meaning there's a limit to how much higher you can make them than they are currently (especially with the tiny north stand).

If you have a look at Hampden on a map, you'll see that the west end of the North Stand is almost against the road, while the other end is about 20 or so metres away. So, while you could extend that stand slightly, it would have to be a pretty lop-sided construction that starts off reasonably large at the east end and gradually decreases in size the nearer it is to the West.


TBH, it's really not an ideal starting point for re-development.

[Juniper Greens]

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RE: Re-developing Hampden.

Replacing the curved North and South stands with stands of a similar height, but closer to the pitch would mean a reduction in capacity, so they would obviously have to be built much higher, most likely two tier. They're going to have to join up with the North and South at some point, meaning there's a limit to how much higher you can make them than they are currently (especially with the tiny north stand).

If you have a look at Hampden on a map, you'll see that the west end of the North Stand is almost against the road, while the other end is about 20 or so metres away. So, while you could extend that stand slightly, it would have to be a pretty lop-sided construction that starts off reasonably large at the east end and gradually decreases in size the nearer it is to the West.


TBH, it's really not an ideal starting point for re-development.

Move the pitch closer to the south stand and redo the other 3?

[NAE NOOKIE]

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RE: Re-developing Hampden.

Replacing the curved North and South stands with stands of a similar height, but closer to the pitch would mean a reduction in capacity, so they would obviously have to be built much higher, most likely two tier. They're going to have to join up with the North and South at some point, meaning there's a limit to how much higher you can make them than they are currently (especially with the tiny north stand).

If you have a look at Hampden on a map, you'll see that the west end of the North Stand is almost against the road, while the other end is about 20 or so metres away. So, while you could extend that stand slightly, it would have to be a pretty lop-sided construction that starts off reasonably large at the east end and gradually decreases in size the nearer it is to the West.


TBH, it's really not an ideal starting point for re-development.

Perhaps not. But as others have pointed out, if you dropped the level of the pitch you could easily compensate for the lack of room at the north side, you could also slightly reduce the size of the huge pitch, giving a few more yards to play with … that would probably allow for close to 60,000 with stands of the same height all around the stadium. Both ends only need to be single tier and there's ample room for that … build a mirror image of the south stand at the north side, join all 4 stands up and you have a cracking stadium.

[Kato]

The tone of this thread has changed from a beauty competition with two entrants, to putting lip-stick on a pig.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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That's probably not financially practical now. The opportunity to have one national stadium was lost some years ago when the SFA and SRU both spent a lot of money on doing up their own stadium. That was the time to take a decision to emulate Wales and bring football and rugby together and halving redevelopment and on-going maintenance costs, whether at Hampden, Murrayfield or on a new site is relatively immaterial.

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Quick question, SFA can't afford the full £5 million to buy Hampden, hence 2 people weighing in £2.5 million to help buy it, where are the SFA going to get £40/50 million to refurbish the stadium????

Answers on a postcard to SFA offices Hampden!!!!

ballengeich:

The SFA had little if anything to do with previous redevelopments of Hampden, though Queens Park certainly obtained the money to upgrade it on the back of Scottish football's use of it as a venue. Queen's park would obviously have had nothing whatsoever to gain by cooperating with the SRU on anything, never mind a plan to sideline their own stadium.

where'sthe slope:

This is exactly the small time thinking I'm railing against the SFA for. I'll never tire of saying this, and neither should the SFA, …. If £113,000,000 of public money could be found to build a velodrome and £14,000,000 could be found to temporarily transform Hampden into an athletics stadium then that is absolutely the bare minimum of investment IE £127,000,000 that the SFA should be looking for … not purely from public funds, but from all sources to reach that total. For that sum of money they could easily build a mirror of the south stand, minus the offices and dressing rooms etc at the north side and square off the ends.

They need to think big and have the determination and can do attitude that so far they have singularly failed to display.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Perhaps not. But as others have pointed out, if you dropped the level of the pitch you could easily compensate for the lack of room at the north side, you could also slightly reduce the size of the huge pitch, giving a few more yards to play with … that would probably allow for close to 60,000 with stands of the same height all around the stadium. Both ends only need to be single tier and there's ample room for that … build a mirror image of the south stand at the north side, join all 4 stands up and you have a cracking stadium.

Dropping the pitch creates sightline problems with the existing slope of the stands.

[where'stheslope]

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How did you feel when it was proposed that Hibs relocate to Straiton?

All the reasons that that was a crap idea apply to a purpose built soulless dome in the middle of the country.

According to Scott Brown "we have one in the middle of Glasgow"??????

[where'stheslope]

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ballengeich:

The SFA had little if anything to do with previous redevelopments of Hampden, though Queens Park certainly obtained the money to upgrade it on the back of Scottish football's use of it as a venue. Queen's park would obviously have had nothing whatsoever to gain by cooperating with the SRU on anything, never mind a plan to sideline their own stadium.

where'sthe slope:

This is exactly the small time thinking I'm railing against the SFA for. I'll never tire of saying this, and neither should the SFA, …. If £113,000,000 of public money could be found to build a velodrome and £14,000,000 could be found to temporarily transform Hampden into an athletics stadium then that is absolutely the bare minimum of investment IE £127,000,000 that the SFA should be looking for … not purely from public funds, but from all sources to reach that total. For that sum of money they could easily build a mirror of the south stand, minus the offices and dressing rooms etc at the north side and square off the ends.

They need to think big and have the determination and can do attitude that so far they have singularly failed to display.

If these amount of monies could be found, surely it would be better spent on a stadium that would have all modern motorways and railways on its doorstep?
And in my mind it would be nowhere near either Glasgow or Edinburgh!!!!

[Since90+2]

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If these amount of monies could be found, surely it would be better spent on a stadium that would have all modern motorways and railways on its doorstep?
And in my mind it would be nowhere near either Glasgow or Edinburgh!!!!

It would have to near to Edinburgh and Glasgow. It would be mad to build a national stadium not close to a countries two biggest cities by far.

[ancient hibee]

[QUOTE=where'stheslope;5547975]If these amount of monies could be found, surely it would be better spent on a stadium that would have all modern motorways and railways on its doorstep?
And in my mind it would be nowhere near either Glasgow or Edinburgh!!!![/QUOTE

Rannoch Moor perhaps?

[where'stheslope]

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It would have to near to Edinburgh and Glasgow. It would be mad to build a national stadium not close to a countries two biggest cities by far.

Anywhere near Stirling using the M9 from Edinburgh and the M80 from Glasgow.
Trains are easily available from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee.
That makes it by far the best area to try and build any new stadium, land is available and its not heavily urbanised.

[heretoday]

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Anywhere near Stirling using the M9 from Edinburgh and the M80 from Glasgow.
Trains are easily available from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee.
That makes it by far the best area to try and build any new stadium, land is available and its not heavily urbanised.

Bannockburn!!!

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Dropping the pitch creates sightline problems with the existing slope of the stands.

Well, the south perhaps ,,, but seeing as how the other three will be getting knocked down that only leaves one stand to worry about in that area.

[Since90+2]

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Anywhere near Stirling using the M9 from Edinburgh and the M80 from Glasgow.
Trains are easily available from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee.
That makes it by far the best area to try and build any new stadium, land is available and its not heavily urbanised.

That would be worse than we have now.

Whether we like it or not most football fans in this country stay in Glasgow and its surrounding area, the second biggest concentration of fans is in Edinburgh and the Lothians. A stadium in the middle of nowhere thankfully is not on the table .

[NAE NOOKIE]

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If these amount of monies could be found, surely it would be better spent on a stadium that would have all modern motorways and railways on its doorstep?
And in my mind it would be nowhere near either Glasgow or Edinburgh!!!!

Miles from the pubs, cafes and restaurants required to make a trip to any big game an experience … Making a trip to Hampden a day out and not just a 90 minute experience is a big deal in selling our biggest games and internationals. Its by far one of the biggest reasons lunchtime kick offs piss off so many fans, you can get to Hampden from practically anywhere in the country for a lunchtime kick off by public transport, but that leaves you absolutely no time to enjoy the pre match and for many people it spoils there day.

[Liberal Hibby]

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RE: Re-developing Hampden.

Replacing the curved North and South stands with stands of a similar height, but closer to the pitch would mean a reduction in capacity, so they would obviously have to be built much higher, most likely two tier. They're going to have to join up with the North and South at some point, meaning there's a limit to how much higher you can make them than they are currently (especially with the tiny north stand).

If you have a look at Hampden on a map, you'll see that the west end of the North Stand is almost against the road, while the other end is about 20 or so metres away. So, while you could extend that stand slightly, it would have to be a pretty lop-sided construction that starts off reasonably large at the east end and gradually decreases in size the nearer it is to the West.


TBH, it's really not an ideal starting point for re-development.

Surely you could build the north stand up on the same footprint?

[Since90+2]

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Miles from the pubs, cafes and restaurants required to make a trip to any big game an experience … Making a trip to Hampden a day out and not just a 90 minute experience is a big deal in selling our biggest games and internationals. Its by far one of the biggest reasons lunchtime kick offs piss off so many fans, you can get to Hampden from practically anywhere in the country for a lunchtime kick off by public transport, but that leaves you absolutely no time to enjoy the pre match and for many people it spoils there day.

Yip. A trip to a stadium somewhere outside Stirling for a 12 noon kick off would be terrible.