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  1. #61
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90+2 View Post
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    He’s spot on. None of it can be argued.
    Maybe so but he has hijacked every thread and co -cost another to be closed down I do not know where he gets the energy


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  3. #62
    madhatter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

    I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

    I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

    For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.
    When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?

  4. #63
    Left by mutual consent! calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS View Post
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    Maybe so but he has hijacked every thread and co -cost another to be closed down I do not know where he gets the energy
    I’ve already admitted to de-railing the deleted thread. I’m not quite sure where I’ve “hijacked” any other thread, they’ve all been kept pretty much on topic?

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

    The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.
    For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

    I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    I’ve already admitted to de-railing the deleted thread. I’m not quite sure where I’ve “hijacked” any other thread, they’ve all been kept pretty much on topic?
    You crack on mate 😁

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by we are hibs View Post
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    We lost to ayr and drew with Dumbarton at home under Lennon just to remind you.
    I’m just happy we got promoted

  8. #67
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    Let’s hope we beat Hamilton on Saturday :)

  9. #68
    madhatter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

    I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.
    What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

    Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.
    My apologies for the "3 times" comment: now since removed.
    But the point of Stubbsy not getting us promoted - especially through the play offs, still stands.
    I do agree that we were up against it with both Hearts and Sevco for clinching automatic promotion, but there is no excuse for the play off defeats.

    To say what Neil Lennon would have done under similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous and takes us off into the realms of mere conjecture.

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lennon's Lip View Post
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    My apologies for the "3 times" comment: now since removed.
    But the point of Stubbsy not getting us promoted - especially through the play offs, still stands.
    I do agree that we were up against it with both Hearts and Sevco for clinching automatic promotion, but there is no excuse for the play off defeats.

    To say what Neil Lennon would have done under similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous and takes us off into the realms of mere conjecture.
    I think Lennon might have got us up in 2016 through the play-offs, but he would not have won got us to both cup finals in the same season as Stubbs did. And, in the long term, winning the Scottish Cup will forever be what is remembered and is the most important moment in our club's recent history.

  12. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
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    When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?

    I would like to see him( providing he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) be given significant funds in the January window to secure "better quality" players, especially in midfield and upfront, and to be given to the end of the season with a revamped squad before his performance as manager is assessed by Leeann and co.

  13. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
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    What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

    Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).
    And what if he signs expensive successes and signs them on 3 year contracts? We're back into the land of conjecture with this kind of thinking. The fact is that none of us know in advance how any signing will turn out. We can play the pessimist or the optimist but can't predict the future.

    I respect where you are coming from re" another transfer window to fix things", but, for me, Neil Lennon is best placed at this moment in time to know the players at his disposal and the type he needs to replace them. I'd be very surprised if Leeann and co are not thinking along exactly the same lines and keen to ensure they support him all they can.
    A new manager is simply coming into the mix completely blind folded with the expectations of the supporters to get it right immediately - This scenario raises the spectre of Butcher all over.

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member California-Hibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HFCEighteen75 View Post
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    Since you only stated Lennon's successes at Hibs, I'm going to take it that you mean "he is more successful than Stubbs as a Hibs manager", in which case that is LAUGHABLE.
    Stubbs: 2 failed promotion attempts
    Scottish Cup

    Lennon: Promotion first time
    4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd
    European football, of which he progressed us 2 rounds.
    Much higher win percentage and one of the highest ever for a Hibs manager.


    Absolutely love Stubbs for delivering the Scottish cup but I'd much rather, and am much happier, with Lennon than him.

  15. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by California-Hibs View Post
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    Stubbs: 2 failed promotion attempts
    Scottish Cup

    Lennon: Promotion first time
    4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd
    European football, of which he progressed us 2 rounds.
    Much higher win percentage and one of the highest ever for a Hibs manager.

    Absolutely love Stubbs for delivering the Scottish cup but I'd much rather, and am much happier, with Lennon than him.
    That's so unbelievably arbitrary.

    Stubbs' seasons were 'failed' promotion attempts as we were kept down by teams - Hearts in 2014/15, Rangers in 2015/16 - who outperformed and/or had bigger budgets than us. The one letdown in Stubbs' handling of the league was that he finished third behind Falkirk in 2015/16. This was more than made up for by the fact that he led us to both domestic cup finals, an achievement which no other Hibs manager has ever replicated. After suffering the setbacks of the League Cup and Play-Off heartbreak, he led us to our greatest ever day on the 21st May 2016, ending 114 years of torment and winning the Scottish Cup. It revolutionised our club and much of what Lennon has right now/had (the 13k season ticket base, the midfield trio of McGinn, McGeouch and Allan, the funds to sign players) can be attributed directly to the work of Alan Stubbs.

    Onto Lennon, promotion first time, in a league where we were odds on favourites to win it, and did so, not at all convincingly I might add. He got one more point (71) in total than Stubbs did in both his seasons (70) with much, much tougher competition, with similarly embarrassing slip ups at home to Ayr, away to bottom club St Mirren, at home to Queen of the South in the League Cup (we'll get to his substandard cup record in a minute).

    "4th place SPFL finish, unlucky not to be 2nd". Right, so I'm going to say "Alan Stubbs: 3rd placed SPFL Championship finish, unlucky not to be 1st", and that just absolves Stubbs of finishing 3rd, does it? The fact we didn't finish second had nothing to do with luck, it was down to the first half of the season not being good enough results wise, and the team choking at Tynecastle in the penultimate game when all we needed was a draw. Lennon was too ignorant to actually realise that a draw was all we needed, and admitted so after the match.

    European football, which Stubbs also delivered, and then left before he had the chance to negotiate us through any rounds. Had he, he'd have been tasked with taking Hibs past Brondby, a much more difficult prospect than Faroese trawlermen and Asteras Tripolis.

    Lennon's win percentage at Hibs is 48.7%.
    Stubbs' win percentage at Hibs was 58.0%.

    Lennon's cup record is also absolutely average in comparison to Stubbs, who took us to (in succession), a League Cup Quarter Final, a Scottish Cup Semi Final, a League Cup Final and then a victorious Scottish Cup Final. Lennon better hope - if he's still here - that he can deliver a visit to Hampden at the very least, because we're not going to have much to play for in the league at this rate unless things improve and fast.
    Last edited by HibeeHibernian4; 06-12-2018 at 04:09 AM.

  16. #75
    To clarify my position on this, when things are going well for Hibs, Neil Lennon is a better manager at Hibs than Alan Stubbs ever was. Of that there is no doubt for me.

    However, Stubbs could bring Hibs back from the dead in a way that Lennon seems incapable of. When we lost four in a row in the Championship in February/March 2016, and then were cruelly beaten in the League Cup Final, what did Stubbs do? He took us up to Inverness for the Scottish Cup replay three days later and got us through.

    Under Lennon, before this dire run, we've had one poor spell last winter (where we lost to St Johnstone, drew with Accies, lost to Rangers and lost 4-1 at Aberdeen in the space of about six games), and it took a winter break and a transfer window for Hibs to properly recover.

    I hope I'm wrong, I would love to be proved wrong, but I do not see Lennon pulling Hibs back from this.

    Edit: What definitely doesn't help, going forward, is a select few fans on here sticking their head in the sand and insisting that Neil Lennon has a winning mentality despite very little evidence suggesting he does. A 'winner' would've got us to a cup final by now at the very least, surely?
    Last edited by HibeeHibernian4; 06-12-2018 at 04:03 AM.

  17. #76
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibeesmad View Post
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    Let’s hope we beat Hamilton on Saturday :)
    We hoped we would beat St Mirren The reality at present is Teams will relish playing us as we have lost form and don't seem to be able to do anything about it Gives other teams a liftIts also a Plastic Pitch and Boyle in particular doesn't play well on those , some players carrying knocks don't like playing on those surfaces
    We really are struggling at the moment one win to my mind isn't going to suddenly change that The players had thier clear the air chat and it's not worked We are chopping and changing team each week as clearly too many players not doing it and Theanagement Yeam have gone Public with this
    But yes all we can do is Hope that we turn this Slump around sooner than later as Celtic and Rangers won't.belooking to do us any favours apart from turn us over

  18. #77
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.

  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.
    Couldn't agree more. Couldn't get us promoted and sacked from everywhere else. Rather stick with Lennon if i had a choice between both.

  20. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    Why the **** is Stubbs still getting mentioned in posts. FS he got sacked from bloody st mirren, your a like a bunch of little bairns. People are concerned with Lennon and recent performances that's understandable but gtf with the chronic mentioning of bloody Stubbs.
    Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.

  21. #80
    @hibs.net private member Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by we are hibs View Post
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    Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.
    Stubbs was in a much tougher league and despite the fatigue from getting to two cup finals and a horrendous injury list, got only 1pt less than our title winning season.

    Both NL and AS picked their jobs down south badly and both were catastrophic.

    St Mirren - well, who knows. I don’t know who’s have gone in and met the expectations of their fans. I think Stubbs, Holden and Doolan were a great team and not having the others might not have worked the same.

    I don’t think there’s nearly as much between the two managers as people are making out.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  22. #81
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by we are hibs View Post
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    Did Stubbs pump your missus or something? You utterly despise him and it's laughable and embarrassing.
    No as mentioned before he got sacked by Rotherham and st mirren why the hell anyone would ever even consider him for the role again is mental. It's so chronic and boring the constant chat about him coming back it's like Riordan x1000000. ps I don't despise him.

  23. #82
    Left by mutual consent! calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    No as mentioned before he got sacked by Rotherham and st mirren why the hell anyone would ever even consider him for the role again is mental. It's so chronic and boring the constant chat about him coming back it's like Riordan x1000000.
    Lennon got sacked by Bolton and the way things are going he will get sacked by Hibs.

  24. #83
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Lennon got sacked by Bolton and the way things are going he will get sacked by Hibs.
    He's never been sacked by bloody st mirren though.

  25. #84
    @hibs.net private member Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    He's never been sacked by bloody st mirren though.
    I hear the sound of a barrel being scraped...

    Nearly everything Lennon has won as a manager has been with the biggest budget in the league. The careers of the two are comparable in many ways, but Stubbs has a SC under his belt.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  26. #85
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northernhibee View Post
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    I hear the sound of a barrel being scraped...

    Nearly everything Lennon has won as a manager has been with the biggest budget in the league. The careers of the two are comparable in many ways, but Stubbs has a SC under his belt.
    It must have be an extremely difficult couple of seasons for the likes of you even last season, people like yourself couldn't wait to jump on Lennon's back because you have this endless need for the return of stubbs because he won us the Scottish cup. As obvious and predictable as can be, we go though a sticky patch and the name Stubbs is mentioned faster than a drop of a hat. it's pathetic. Criticize Lennon all you want and rightly so ATM but don't use it as an platform for Stubbs to come back it's pathetic.
    Last edited by pacoluna; 06-12-2018 at 09:32 AM.

  27. #86
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    Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

    Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.

  28. #87
    @hibs.net private member Hermit Crab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
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    Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

    Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.

    Aye and look at Falkirk now. 2nd bottom of the championship, -12 goal difference, well and truly spanked out the Scottish cup 4-2 by Stenhousemuir. You don't think we are better than them now?

  29. #88
    Left by mutual consent! calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
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    Stubbs had us finish behind Falkirk, Falkirk FFS.

    Anyone that wants a return to that wants their ****ing heid examined.
    Lennon has us behind Livingston. Even more of a diddy club than Falkirk. Falkirk were a decent side and picked up nearly as many points (possibly even the same?) as Lennons promotion side did in what was a more difficult league. Let’s not dress them up as utter dross because they weren’t that season.

  30. #89
    @hibs.net private member Northernhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    It must have be an extremely difficult couple of seasons for the likes of you even last season, people like yourself couldn't wait to jump on Lennon's back because you have this endless need for the return of stubbs because he won us the Scottish cup. As obvious and predictable as can be, we go though a sticky patch and the name Stubbs is mentioned faster than a drop of a hat. it's pathetic. Criticize Lennon all you want and rightly so ATM but don't use it as an platform for Stubbs to come back it's pathetic.
    Not as pathetic as constantly having a go at a Scottish cup winning club legend to make up for Lennons many shortfalls, of which those of us who’ve dared mention them (and been proven right) have gotten all sorts of stick.

    Slagging off Stubbs is not a defence of Lennon outside his excellent one half of a season.


    Do you think your security can keep you in purity, you will not shake us off above or below. Scottish friction, Scottish fiction

  31. #90
    @hibs.net private member Stuart93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Lennon has us behind Livingston. Even more of a diddy club than Falkirk. Falkirk were a decent side and picked up nearly as many points (possibly even the same?) as Lennons promotion side did in what was a more difficult league. Let’s not dress them up as utter dross because they weren’t that season.
    Stubbs was also juggling to cup runs at the time.

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