100k cctv and sniffer dogs

[Jones28]

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Leeann said after that game the CCTV needed upgraded, we all heard her say this but then some go mental when they do so, how much do people think this stuff costs?

Some fans seem to think a bottle being thrown is "just one incident". But it's just one incident that shows us the system isnt good enough. If the bottle doesn't get thrown it doesn't highlight it and the £100,000 (or as Smartie put it 250 season tickets) goes elsewhere.

[green day]

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Just because people happen to disagree with how we are choosing to spend a substantial amount of money it doesn’t mean you have an agenda.

As for sectarian stuff, if it happens in our stadium it is absolutely our problem. If we are prepared to ignore it, say or do nothing about it and have them back to do it all again every few months can we really moan about others turning a blind eye?

If we had strict liability, it would be our problem to deal with - we dont have it, so it isnt our issue.

Going off topic somewhat, but as someone else has said - if the SPFL delegate started reporting sectarian singing, and they got docked points, it would stop immediately as Celtic and Huns fans - although neanderthal - dont want points removed.

However, that is an SPFL matter, and no matter how much the Petrie and Dempster haters bang on about it, Hibs cant actually stop them singing sectarian songs, short of banning them all from our stadium, which we cant do (if we reduced it to 900, you can bet your bottom dollar they would be belting them out).

So, over to you - whats your solution?

[B.H.F.C]

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If we had strict liability, it would be our problem to deal with - we dont have it, so it isnt our issue.

Going off topic somewhat, but as someone else has said - if the SPFL delegate started reporting sectarian singing, and they got docked points, it would stop immediately as Celtic and Huns fans - although neanderthal - dont want points removed.

However, that is an SPFL matter, and no matter how much the Petrie and Dempster haters bang on about it, Hibs cant actually stop them singing sectarian songs, short of banning them all from our stadium, which we cant do (if we reduced it to 900, you can bet your bottom dollar they would be belting them out).

So, over to you - whats your solution?

Strict liability sees clubs liable for their own supporters so under strict liability we wouldn’t be liable for what that lot sing.

My point is that we could stop them doing it in our ground by not letting them in. We’re happy to accept the cash though. I’m not advocating we should ban them by the way, but we could if we wanted to. The issue is nobody wants to tackle the problem. It’s always someone else who has to do it. It’s obviously a much deeper problem in society but we don’t need to have it in our ground, we just choose to.

[PatHead]

The bottom line is that if things carry on as they are someone will get hurt. Better to try and stop it before it happens.

If cameras covering all the seats help then so much the better. The same with the dogs. Unfortunate it costs so much.

[green day]

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Strict liability sees clubs liable for their own supporters so under strict liability we wouldn’t be liable for what that lot sing.

My point is that we could stop them doing it in our ground by not letting them in. We’re happy to accept the cash though. I’m not advocating we should ban them by the way, but we could if we wanted to. The issue is nobody wants to tackle the problem. It’s always someone else who has to do it. It’s obviously a much deeper problem in society but we don’t need to have it in our ground, we just choose to.

By the absolute definition of SL, you are right - however there are those who suggest that if a club holds an event, it would be liable for everything that happens in its grounds..........which is one reason why non OF clubs dont like it.

On the "ban them" bit - we cant, we have to allow a %age of fans in, hence the tit for tat small number of fans thing that went on at Ibrox / Parkhead.

So, if we reduce the number to 900 (or whatever) my point is that this in itself wont stop sectarian singing.

You say that we could stop them coming in, then you say "I am not advocating a ban" then say in the next sentence "we choose to have it in our ground" - which, as I have told you is entirely wrong.

People tend to oversimplify this...........

[theonlywayisup]

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Ban people on an individual basis. When they do something wrong then ban them. And when banned they stay banned because I know plenty of people with a "life ban" who still rock up to tynie and ER every week. If the clubs were serious about stopping bad behaviour they would enforce these more heavily.Don't punish a whole section for one or two ********s inability to behave. All your doing with that is getting even more fans backs up.

Okay! So how do we prevent people who've been banned on an individual basis from re-appearing at Easter Road. You clearly state that's not working. If fellow law abiding supporters are not willing to 'grass' on their fellow supporter, maybe we need some facial recognition cameras to identify those who've been banned. Alternatively, you could do your fellow law abiding supporters a favour by letting Hibs or the Police know who these "people" are. The fact that you know "plenty" deeply concerns me.

Which then brings us back to "how do you identify those who have done wrong to then ban them"? Obviously, we've situations when those who've thrown things onto the pitch are not being identified. So, unless fellow law abiding supporters are willing to 'grass' on their fellow supporters, then the clubs have little option but to go down the CCTV route.

I'm 100% sure that there are people on this website who know who the bottle thrower in the Celtic game is. There will be those who know the name of the person who through the flares onto the pitch at recent high profile games. But no-one is willing to 'grass' on their mates. So how about they say "please don't do that again" in whatever type of language they wish to use.

Unless the Hibernian support come up with a better self policing option, then CCTV etc is the new norm.

[B.H.F.C]

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By the absolute definition of SL, you are right - however there are those who suggest that if a club holds an event, it would be liable for everything that happens in its grounds..........which is one reason why non OF clubs dont like it.

On the "ban them" bit - we cant, we have to allow a %age of fans in, hence the tit for tat small number of fans thing that went on at Ibrox / Parkhead.

So, if we reduce the number to 900 (or whatever) my point is that this in itself wont stop sectarian singing.

You say that we could stop them coming in, then you say "I am not advocating a ban" then say in the next sentence "we choose to have it in our ground" - which, as I have told you is entirely wrong.

People tend to oversimplify this...........

The only time we have to give over a certain percentage is for a cup tie.

If you can’t eradicate it all together then surely it’s better to do something rather than nothing? I come back to my point that we choose to give them nearly 20% of the seats in our stadium, we don’t have to.

As I said it’s an issue with society issue rather than Hibs. Everybody wants rid of it but nobody is quite willing to do anything to make it happen. It’s easier to wait on someone else doing something rather than take a tough stance themselves.

[Keith_M]

RE: Sectarian Singing by visiting fans.


Hibs make an announcement before every game about unacceptable conduct, including racism and sectarianism. Fans of certain clubs ignore that warning and belt out their sectarian or terrorist worshipping lyrics. Hibs, along with the media, police and SFA/SPFL ignore that it even happened.

I would like to see Hibs demonstrate the same level of disgust they they would (rightly) have for instances of racism.


One Racist Fan?

-- A big fuss in the media, condemnation from the club, politicians speaking out, etc, etc.

3,500 Sectarian Rangers Fans?

[blackpoolhibs]

There's another hoo ha this morning here in England, regarding Chelsea fans last night in Prague. Its was hilarious listening to two of the biggest phannys in the world, get their knickers in a twist on talksport earlier on this.

The hypocrisy from Brazil and McCoist playing to their audience on how they condemn it and clubs and the Fa HAVE to get to the bottom of this and stamp it out.

You know in a backhanded way, all this trouble in England with racism and the anti muslim feelings could help us with our bigotry problem.

The English will do much more than pay this lip service, they have a huge product to protect. Eyes from around the country will be on us sooner than we think once they start addressing the problem down here.

[green day]

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The only time we have to give over a certain percentage is for a cup tie.

If you can’t eradicate it all together then surely it’s better to do something rather than nothing? I come back to my point that we choose to give them nearly 20% of the seats in our stadium, we don’t have to.
.

I am aware of the cup %age

If you think we could get away with giving them zero tickets, then why did Rangers and Celtic give each other an allocation for the recent OF matches?

I will answer my own question - It is because if you dont give or agree a reasonable allocation, the SPFL board step in and tell you what to do.

Genuine question, as you have obviously given this a lot of thought - What number would you give them that would "eradicate sectarian singing"?

[B.H.F.C]

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I am aware of the cup %age

If you think we could get away with giving them zero tickets, then why did Rangers and Celtic give each other an allocation for the recent OF matches?

I will answer my own question - It is because if you dont give or agree a reasonable allocation, the SPFL board step in and tell you what to do.

Genuine question, as you have obviously given this a lot of thought - What numberL would you give them that would "eradicate sectarian singing"?

I’ve not given it much thought at all really. Whether you give them 2% (which we get at Ibrox and even less at Parkhead) or 20% it won’t eradicate it and I never suggested it would.

All I have said is that we are happy to give them the 20% and take the money in the knowledge that we’ll have to listen to nearly 4,000 of them sing what they sing. You seem to be ignoring the point that we don’t need to do that.

If you can’t get rid of it completely (I’m sure you’ll tell me exactly how many tickets they’re entitled to) then why not minimise it? Simple, it’s financial.

Believe it or not, I don’t feel that strongly about it. I simply responded to a post suggesting that type of thing happening in our stadium isn’t our problem. That’s the bit I disagree with. We’re happy to let them in and do it repeatedly.

[Since90+2]

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There's another hoo ha this morning here in England, regarding Chelsea fans last night in Prague. Its was hilarious listening to two of the biggest phannys in the world, get their knickers in a twist on talksport earlier on this.

The hypocrisy from Brazil and McCoist playing to their audience on how they condemn it and clubs and the Fa HAVE to get to the bottom of this and stamp it out.

You know in a backhanded way, all this trouble in England with racism and the anti muslim feelings could help us with our bigotry problem.

The English will do much more than pay this lip service, they have a huge product to protect. Eyes from around the country will be on us sooner than we think once they start addressing the problem down here.

Am I missing your point here? What have McCoist and Brazil done wrong by condeming it?

[GreenLake]

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What happens when the dog picks you out? Is it a pat down or a strip search with rubber glove? If nothing is found do you get an apology and a voucher for a free pie or refused entry?

If nothing is found it doesn't mean you are innocent.

[JimBHibees]

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RE: Sectarian Singing by visiting fans.


Hibs make an announcement before every game about unacceptable conduct, including racism and sectarianism. Fans of certain clubs ignore that warning and belt out their sectarian or terrorist worshipping lyrics. Hibs, along with the media, police and SFA/SPFL ignore that it even happened.

I would like to see Hibs demonstrate the same level of disgust they they would (rightly) have for instances of racism.


One Racist Fan?

-- A big fuss in the media, condemnation from the club, politicians speaking out, etc, etc.

3,500 Sectarian Rangers Fans?

Absolutely nail on the head. Scotlands not so secret shame.

[overdrive]

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Am I missing your point here? What have McCoist and Brazil done wrong by condeming it?

I think the issue is that they don’t do the same when their beloved Glasgow based teams have similar incidents of sectarianism.

[we are hibs]

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The fact you called Leeann "HERSELF" in that post says everything about you.

What a pile of utter *****. What do you want me to call her? The fact your jumping on one word like that says everything about you.

[proud_and_green]

I agree with the folks saying that this should not have been spent...to an extent. It certainly should not have been necessary to spend this money and regardless of which line this expenditure has come from it is less money available for other things whether that is playing staff, marketing or better pies. But the fault lies squarely with those who are being erchieholes! It also seems to me like the drug sniffers are a response to a lot of criticism to drug taking in the ground from many fans including on this forum.

The point is though, the Club will have a risk based approach to some expenditure and there will be a contingency fund for emergency works or other expenditure. This money will have come out of that fund. That is not to say that it doesn't affect overall spending capacity and capability.

Crowd behaviour will absolutely be a risk on the risk register and following the recent incidents the club will have reviewed them. This action is not some random action, it will be a considered mitigation against a raised risk level. This will also play into other risks and will be costed against the likelihood of those risks landing and the damage they are likely to cause. So I would expect that this is probably a relatively cheap option compared with the cost of the risks landing.

It may seem to some an over reaction but I would be very surprised if it is not a calculated mitigation of an increased risk score.

[J-C]

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What a pile of utter *****. What do you want me to call her? The fact your jumping on one word like that says everything about you.

May be give her some respect and call her Leeann, what it says about me is I have more respect for others.

[Killiehibbie]

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If nothing is found it doesn't mean you are innocent.

But do I get in or sent away because some dog could smell something?

[Eyrie]

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But do I get in or sent away because some dog could smell something?

I'd assume that if the dog indicates anything is amiss then you'd be searched and if it doesn't you get in.

It would be a lot quicker than searching everybody or even attempting to randomly search a sample.

[Mikey]

A match in Belgium has been abandoned because of flares.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47916657

[we are hibs]

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May be give her some respect and call her Leeann, what it says about me is I have more respect for others.

How about no? I don't call hibs players by their first names why would i call her by hers? Absolute odd ball behaviour pretending your on first name terms with someone you don't know in all honesty.

[Allant1981]

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How about no? I don't call hibs players by their first names why would i call her by hers? Absolute odd ball behaviour pretending your on first name terms with someone you don't know in all honesty.

You're not your

[we are hibs]

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You're not your

Stalking my posts again?

[Allant1981]

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Stalking my posts again?

Nope just having a laugh at you

[we are hibs]

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Nope just having a laugh at you

That's nice. I regularly do that when you post.

[Allant1981]

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That's nice. I regularly do that when you post.

Maybe you need a hobby!

[GreenLake]

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But do I get in or sent away because some dog could smell something?

I doubt they can send you away without discovering illicit items on you at the time you try to enter ER.

[J-C]

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How about no? I don't call hibs players by their first names why would i call her by hers? Absolute odd ball behaviour pretending your on first name terms with someone you don't know in all honesty.

So we've to stop saying Daz, Lewis, Flo, Sparky etc just because as you say we don't know them personally, what a croc of sh it. How about you maybe call her Ms Dempster then instead of the derogatory HERSELF crap.

Oh and I have met her a few times and call her by her 1st name, similar to most of the team members I've met over the years.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Am I missing your point here? What have McCoist and Brazil done wrong by condeming it?

They did the same along with Jim ***** when condemning Hibs and Hearts over the last few weeks, really sticking the boot into both clubs after incidents at Easter Road and Tynie, yet when its the bigots at it, they are suddenly very protective of them, and the usual minority argument is trotted out.

Hypocrites, more faces than the town clock the lot of them.