Hibs Annual Accounts

[CropleyWasGod]

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I assumed it was her but can’t help think that Hibs are screwing over every other employee by offering the minimum in pension contributions whilst gold plating LDs.

Doubling them, you mean?

[wallpaperman]

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Last year, non-LD pension contributions were £28k.

This year, they are £55k.

Auto enrolment rates increased from 6 April 2018, that may have something to do with it, and they increase again from 6 April 2019.

Assuming from those very low contribution figures that the players must make their own pension arrangements (if they wish, which is doubtful) and may 'opt out' of Hibs own pension scheme.

[0762]

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I know you didn’t but this is .net where even the simplest of questions gets turnaround by some.

So if an individual got £42.1k in their pension pot, why are the other 99 employees only getting £58k between them?

Agree. Sometimes the most innocent of questions some people just take offence at.

[danhibees1875]

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Auto enrolment rates increased from 6 April 2018, that may have something to do with it, and they increase again from 6 April 2019.

Assuming from those very low contribution figures that the players must make their own pension arrangements (if they wish, which is doubtful) and may 'opt out' of Hibs own pension scheme.

I think they must do, I guess in an environment when you can move around so frequently it's maybe easier, and that's just an industry standard.

Even allowing for that, the amount sounds low though.

[Dancehibs]

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As good a reason as any to get HSL to 26% shareholding. Who knows what the future holds but we can protect the club if want to.


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Individual shareholders have 22%. HSL 15%. So well past that safety net of 26%. When will HSL reach target of 20%?

[Juniper Greens]

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I think they must do, I guess in an environment when you can move around so frequently it's maybe easier, and that's just an industry standard.

Even allowing for that, the amount sounds low though.

I believe footballers have an industry wide Pension Scheme, so suspect that their pension contributions are elsewhere in the accounts. The hubs one will be for non playing staff

[danhibees1875]

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I believe footballers have an industry wide Pension Scheme, so suspect that their pension contributions are elsewhere in the accounts. The hubs one will be for non playing staff

That would make sense. (not sure about being elsewhere in the accounts though - it sounds like they'd just make their own arrangements separately with opt-out being industry standard and their pay reflecting a need to sort their own pension arrangement).

I still think that sounds low for non-playing staff though.

[Dancehibs]

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I've had a quick look at the accounts.

There has been an additional £60k paid on the loan, over and above the usual. The remainder is still repayable at 41,667 per month, " plus any accelerated annual payments which are triggered by the results of the company".

That, to me, suggests that the additional payment is contractual, and not an arbitrary decision made by the Board.

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Question. Looking at the accounts on page 20 . There is an amount of £655, 100. Is that the amount paid to holding company?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Question. Looking at the accounts on page 20 . There is an amount of £655, 100. Is that the amount paid to holding company?

See post #52.

It's the amount expected to be paid in the current season.

[Dancehibs]

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See post #52.

It's the amount expected to be paid in the current season.

Cheers

[Juniper Greens]

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That would make sense. (not sure about being elsewhere in the accounts though - it sounds like they'd just make their own arrangements separately with opt-out being industry standard and their pay reflecting a need to sort their own pension arrangement).

I still think that sounds low for non-playing staff though.

It’s the players union that runs the pension scheme. Don’t mean to hark on, but I don’t want people thinking Hibs are being tight in any way. It’s all quite complex, but it all works out and all the professional players and clubs are involved

[Zondervan]

The minimum Hibs have to pay to a pension by way of employer contributions is 2% of salary.

So for every £100k of employee salary they need to pay £2k.

They could choose to pay above 2% buy without knowing what arrangement they have in place it is hard to work out or correlate with the figures posted.


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[BSEJVT]

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Individual shareholders have 22%. HSL 15%. So well past that safety net of 26%. When will HSL reach target of 20%?

HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

[Bostonhibby]

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HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

This is where I am on the subject, have been from the beginning.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

superb post.

[Caversham Green]

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I've had a look at the accounts now. Other than the edited highlights provided by Rod, I'd mention the following:-

1. HSL contributed £164k during that year. At the end of June, they had 15% of the shares; a further 22% was owned by fans.

2. LD was paid £157k. (for those conspiracy theorists looking in, see Note 1 )

3. on the question of the STF loan, as previously mentioned, we paid £60k over the norm in that year. However, we also seem to be committed to paying an additional £155k in the current year (for those conspiracy theorists looking in..... etc etc.). Presumably, that is a clause in the loan agreement that hasn't been mentioned in the past, as it wasn't relevant.

4. we spent £534k in transfer fees, signing-on fees and agents' fees. There is no breakdown of that.

5. I can't get my head around the income from player sales etc. (Cav - help?) AFAIK, the only income we might have had was add-ons for Cummings.

Nope. I dunno either, other than Cummings. Unless there was some development fees or add-ons for former youth players. Reading reportedly paid £1.5m for Marc McNulty but I don't know if that would be relevant.

[GreenOnions]

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That will be for LD, the highest-paid director. She has had in increase in her salary, possibly on the basis of a performance-related bonus. The additional pension contributions will be as a result of that.

Salary/Bonus sacrifice for employer pension contribution instead I'd guess

[CropleyWasGod]

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Nope. I dunno either, other than Cummings. Unless there was some development fees or add-ons for former youth players. Reading reportedly paid £1.5m for Marc McNulty but I don't know if that would be relevant.

It was more the calculation of the loss i was scoobied on. It appears that we disposed of Intangible assets (ie players) with a NBV of £190k. Yet we made a loss of £230k on those assets.

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[CropleyWasGod]

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Salary/Bonus sacrifice for employer pension contribution instead I'd guess

She definitely had more salary than the previous year, by about 40k. And more pension contributions by about 30k, if that helps.

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[Caversham Green]

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It was more the calculation of the gain i was scoobied on. It appears that we disposed of Intangible assets (ie players) with a NBV of £190k. Yet we made a loss of £230k on those assets.

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Ah - I haven't actually seen the accounts yet. I'll see if I can work out what's happened once I've seen them.

[jacomo]

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HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

Who are these minority shareholders? Anyone know or make an informed guess?

Hibs have stopped the public share sale so I guess they are, collectively, capped at 22%. A lot will be small individual holdings from fans.

Is it something to worry about? Do we have a potential vulture waiting in the wings? It would seem that if someone bought shares hoping to make a quick profit, they would need to be very patient.

[Dancehibs]

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HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

Hibs careful vet who is behind the nominee names. They know the names.

I agree would be good for HSL to get to 26%. Looking at accounts holding company shareholding has dropped 2.8%. At current rate be a few years until HSL gets to 26%.

Amount of shares in hibs fans hands is excellent.

[Bostonhibby]

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Who are these minority shareholders? Anyone know or make an informed guess?

Hibs have stopped the public share sale so I guess they are, collectively, capped at 22%. A lot will be small individual holdings from fans.

Is it something to worry about? Do we have a potential vulture waiting in the wings? It would seem that if someone bought shares hoping to make a quick profit, they would need to be very patient.

I know one nominee who bought that way just to keep the acquisition away from prying eyes who think he already spends too much on Hibs!

Nae chance he'd be launching a takeover or doing anything other than what keeps the club safe from the mercers of this world.

I do generally agree about huge nominee purchases potentially giving cause for concern but suspect that even now there's a far higher percentage in that 22% who aren't in the single takeover camp and many will be long standing small shareholders.

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[BSEJVT]

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Who are these minority shareholders? Anyone know or make an informed guess?

Hibs have stopped the public share sale so I guess they are, collectively, capped at 22%. A lot will be small individual holdings from fans.

Is it something to worry about? Do we have a potential vulture waiting in the wings? It would seem that if someone bought shares hoping to make a quick profit, they would need to be very patient.

Someone a lot brighter than me posted a list of Hibs shareholders a while back.

I was really quite shocked at the large number of significant nominee holdings

Cant find my shares certificates at the moment as we moved in the summer and there are still boxes unopened all over the place.

But iirc I owned under 2 separate purchases 50 and 100 shares

I would guess many others like me just want to hold some as a gesture and / or to be able to attend the AGM if we choose.

Again IIRC ( and I am less sure of this) some of these nominees owned 000's of shares or more

I am personally not convinced that the average supporter owns that significant a percentage of the shares.

Its entirely possible some or all of these nominee holdings are held by real Hibs supporters with the clubs best interests at heart looking to maintain their privacy but:

1) Folk die and pass on shares to folk without that interest / commitment (See Steven Thomson @ DUFC as an example)

2) I am frankly not prepared to sit back idly and hope in case they are not

As an added benefit of securing the clubs future, the cash goes straight into the football budget

The last 3 or 4 years have been amongst the best Hibs supporting days of my life both in respect of the football played and the connection between the club, players and fans.

The only other period to come close would be the Tornadoes era.

Long may it continue, contributing to HSL will help ensure it does.

At long last we have a manager or maybe more accurately a manager and structure in place to support him in identifying and recruiting players to improve us.

I want them to have as much money as possible to continue that work.

[jacomo]

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I know one nominee who bought that way just to keep the acquisition away from prying eyes who think he already spends too much on Hibs!

Nae chance he'd be launching a takeover or doing anything other than what keeps the club safe from the mercers of this world.

I do generally agree about huge nominee purchases potentially giving cause for concern but suspect that even now there's a far higher percentage in that 22% who aren't in the single takeover camp and many will be long standing small shareholders.

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This is good to know.

[ancient hibee]

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We do pay him monthly.

The profit quoted is struck before tax, loan repayments and HSL income. Without any HSL money, we need to make a profit of 500k in order to pay STF

The poster asked what happens to the profit. I'm trying to be as simple as I can with the answer.

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I'm confused-a common fault-we don't need any profit to repay STF-it comes from revenue as it did in previous years when we made a loss.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm confused-a common fault-we don't need any profit to repay STF-it comes from revenue as it did in previous years when we made a loss.

We don't need to, but it helps.

If we were consistently making big losses, and our cash flow was therefore restricted, we'd struggle to make the payments.



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[ancient hibee]

Cash is king.

[Sammy7nil]

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HSL's target is 26%

They will reach it when enough people donate enough money to enable them to acquire the requisite shareholding.

There are some very significant nominee holdings in amongst that 22%

I don't think its any coincidence that there hasn't been an offer for sale to the general public for a considerable period.

The last thing we need is someone building up substantial holdings through various nominee companies as a trojan horse way of making a bid for control.

Whilst I am not particularly big on complete fan ownership, this particular Hibs supporter will rest a lot more content when HSL hold that 26%

Hibs has been my family's team for as long as I can trace back, I would like it to remain my family's team long after I am gone.

Mercer's attempt to take us over and shut us down will never leave me and for as long as I am on this earth I will do everything in my power to prevent my successors ever facing a similar circumstance.

As far as I am concerned the best way of achieving that is to have enough shares under the control of HSL

I would again encourage every Hibs supporter who can afford to do so to contribute whatever they can to make this happen.

GGTTH

Rubbish post

[crash]

Where in the Accounts is the income from the Hibernian Lotto. This is a dedicated ring-fenced cash reserve donated to the Managers Player Fund, surely this should be mentioned.