Decline of Scottish National Football Team

[JimBHibees]

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Just saw the highlights this morning. While McGinn may have lost the ball for the first goal, what on Earth was Gordon doing giving it to him in that position? Throwing it to a guy in the middle of the pitch 30 yards from goal with an opponent about 10 yards away is mental. McGinn maybe could have got rid of it but that would have been about the only option available to him because of the ridiculous throw to him.

What was even more annoying was that muppet Provan on sky sports only highlighted the McGinn mistake nothing about Gordon, though Strachan and Fletcher highlighted the folly of the throw out.

He needs dropping big time.

[Kato]

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Just saw the highlights this morning. While McGinn may have lost the ball for the first goal, what on Earth was Gordon doing giving it to him in that position? Throwing it to a guy in the middle of the pitch 30 yards from goal with an opponent about 10 yards away is mental. McGinn maybe could have got rid of it but that would have been about the only option available to him because of the ridiculous throw to him.

Hearts supporting pal said this morning- If McGinn had signed for Celtic and Gordon was still at Hearts Gordon would have been immediately blamed for the throw out, with a small amount of criticism for McGinn later on.

[JimBHibees]

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Hearts supporting pal said this morning- If McGinn had signed for Celtic and Gordon was still at Hearts Gordon would have been immediately blamed for the throw out, with a small amount of criticism for McGinn later on.

Your mate is spot on.

[J-C]

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This will have happened in every country in Europe. Why has it only affected us?

That my friend is the million dollar answer, hence why this thread is going, I think it's down to grassroots football and the availability of pitches to play on.

[RoslinInstHibby]

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What was even more annoying was that muppet Provan on sky sports only highlighted the McGinn mistake nothing about Gordon, though Strachan and Fletcher highlighted the folly of the throw out.

He needs dropping big time.

Provan must have brought it up at least 5 times during the match "he won't need to be reminded about his error" aye, no with you bringing it up constantly ya welt!

[Not In The Know]

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I think the main problem was actually scheduling last night's match in the first place.

What possessed the SFA to arrange a friendly against one of the best teams in the world when the national team is already getting a bit of a kicking is anyone's guess.

Last night's match should have been played at Easter Road, Tynecastle or Pittodrie and our opponents should have been against a team like Austria or Sweden.

Both countries are in League B of the Nations League, so still better than us on paper but it would have been a better test going into the Albania game than the demoralising humping that we got last night and will have taught us absolutely nothing.

Tiny castle does not meet the requirements to host a full international. Pitch is to small.

[Ryan69]

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Not really, croatia currently have a golden generation, the rest of these countries players are on a level similar to Scotland.

Theyve had a golden generation since their first ever match in 1994.
Always have some fantastic players.

[WeeRussell]

I'm all for defending McGinn over the Celtic goalkepper, and also all for going against Provan... but I thought McGinn was 100% to blame for the first. He took a poor first touch and (with time to recover) tried to do his trademark use of the body to get out of the situation. It didn't work and we conceded. Apart from that he didn't have a bad game.

[WeeRussell]

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There should be a 'B' Euros and World Cup for the smaller nations/those not good enough to play in the main event. It would be a competitive way for Scotland to develop and gain some confidence against sides more on our level. Not much to be gained by mis-matches like last night.

haha - not even one of your better efforts!

[Gordy M]

Im going to go against the grain here a wee bit and say that we are not nearly as bad as some make out. In the last few qualifications we have been a bit unlucky and this coupled with the odd poor performance has led to the non-qualification. I saw someone mention Croatia, wasnt that long ago we beat them home and away. It just seems we are always constantly at a level where we have some good results and some bad and this leads to us being close but not getting there. It wasnt too long ago that Iceland were being hailed as system to copy......they got hammered 6-0 from the swiss the other day....imagine the reaction on here if we had a result like that?? Could it be that they had a 'golden generation'and no one now to replace them?

[Kato]

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Could it be that they had a 'golden generation'and no one now to replace them?

Iceland's Golden Generation are a product of investment in infrastructure (football barns) and in coaching. It's no accident that they have qualified for recent tournaments, it's planning, forethought and a programme of development designed to give kids something to do. It's also no accident we have none of that forethought or facilities and have seen development decline in the last 40 years.

[WeeRussell]

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Im going to go against the grain here a wee bit and say that we are not nearly as bad as some make out. In the last few qualifications we have been a bit unlucky and this coupled with the odd poor performance has led to the non-qualification. I saw someone mention Croatia, wasnt that long ago we beat them home and away. It just seems we are always constantly at a level where we have some good results and some bad and this leads to us being close but not getting there. It wasnt too long ago that Iceland were being hailed as system to copy......they got hammered 6-0 from the swiss the other day....imagine the reaction on here if we had a result like that?? Could it be that they had a 'golden generation'and no one now to replace them?

Definitely. If we fail to beat Albania tonight then I'll be very annoyed and asking serious questions. Getting a caning off one of the best sides in the world while trying out relatively new players in different positions.. I'll get over that.

[JimBHibees]

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Definitely. If we fail to beat Albania tonight then I'll be very annoyed and asking serious questions. Getting a caning off one of the best sides in the world while trying out relatively new players in different positions.. I'll get over that.

Well one positive is that McGregor is likely to be in goal.

[Gordy M]

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Iceland's Golden Generation are a product of investment in infrastructure (football barns) and in coaching. It's no accident that they have qualified for recent tournaments, it's planning, forethought and a programme of development designed to give kids something to do. It's also no accident we have none of that forethought or facilities and have seen development decline in the last 40 years.

Iceland qualified for the Euros from a group where im sure the top seeds finished bottom of the group, possibly greece? But not 100% sure. We had three teams who made it to the last 8 of the whole tournament? To me....thats a bit unlucky.

Il ask you this....if we played Iceland home and away would you be dissapointed if we didnt beat them?

[WhileTheChief..]

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This will have happened in every country in Europe. Why has it only affected us?

It’s not just us though, ask the Dutch or the Italians how they feel about their national sides right now.

Countries have good and bad times. Take Bale out of the Welsh team and they’d never have qualified. It’s certainly not down to Welsh coaching or their FA!!!

The problem is our players, not the SFA or coaches or anything else.

Until we have players with the desire to be the very best they can be we will continue to muddle on.

[Kato]

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Iceland qualified for the Euros from a group where im sure the top seeds finished bottom of the group, possibly greece? But not 100% sure. We had three teams who made it to the last 8 of the whole tournament? To me....thats a bit unlucky.

Il ask you this....if we played Iceland home and away would you be dissapointed if we didnt beat them?

Nothing disappoints me any more about the Scotland team.

You can believe what you like, "luck or no luck". The facts are there - a country with a population less than Edinburgh's is now qualifying for major tournaments 15 years or so after investing heavily in infrastructure and coaching. Scotland invests in nothing and pays lip service to development and never qualifies. luck or the luck of the draw has nothing to do with it. If Iceland beat us it would be a bit "meh" for me.

[Kato]

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The problem is our players, not the SFA or coaches or anything else.

Until we have players with the desire to be the very best they can be we will continue to muddle on.

Upside down garbage. The players who do make the grade for Scotland are not to blame. It's the lack of quality players and the lack of any plan to produce them in numbers.

Have to say when it comes to any argument about the SFA you never fail to take their side, even when it's as plain as the nose on your face that as guardians of the sport in this country they are an abject failure at almost everything they take on.

[Gordy M]

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Nothing disappoints me any more about the Scotland team.

You can believe what you like, "luck or no luck". The facts are there - a country with a population less than Edinburgh's is now qualifying for major tournaments 15 years or so after investing heavily in infrastructure and coaching. Scotland invests in nothing and pays lip service to development and never qualifies. luck or the luck of the draw has nothing to do with it. If Iceland beat us it would be a bit "meh" for me.

Of course luck of the draw has something to do with it?? So if hibs get celtic away in the Scottish Cup in the 3rd round and Arbroath get to the 4th round then Arbroath are better than us?? Im not saying thats the whole reason, im sure there are other things we could be doing; but my whole point is that we are nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.

Il just add that Iceland have played 6 games in 2018, lost 4 and drawn 2.......NO WINS. And that includes a 6-0 humping from the swiss(not exactly a top team?)

[WhileTheChief..]

^^Read the Cummings thread on here.

No amount of coaching can help that.

[Andy.1875]

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I'm all for defending McGinn over the Celtic goalkepper, and also all for going against Provan... but I thought McGinn was 100% to blame for the first. He took a poor first touch and (with time to recover) tried to do his trademark use of the body to get out of the situation. It didn't work and we conceded. Apart from that he didn't have a bad game.

Didn't have a bad game! They conceded 4 goals. Where is the positive in that?

[Kato]

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Of course luck of the draw has something to do with it?? So if hibs get celtic away in the Scottish Cup in the 3rd round and Arbroath get to the 4th round then Arbroath are better than us?? Im not saying thats the whole reason, im sure there are other things we could be doing; but my whole point is that we are nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out.

Il just add that Iceland have played 6 games in 2018, lost 4 and drawn 2.......NO WINS. And that includes a 6-0 humping from the swiss(not exactly a top team?)

Yet they qualify, to a degree where they are qualifying regularly and Scotland .... well you know the rest.

[Gordy M]

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Yet they qualify, to a degree where they are qualifying regularly and Scotland .... well you know the rest.

Well not really, they have qualified for 2 tournaments in a row.....im assuming with the same set of players.....not sure 2 tournaments in their history can count as regularly? It happens to a few teams. They get a really good set of players, get up the seedings which makes it easier, then players get older etc and they drop back down the rankings. Same has happened with a few teams. We just have to find that set of players and push on.

[Kato]

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Well not really, they have qualified for 2 tournaments in a row.....im assuming with the same set of players.....not sure 2 tournaments in their history can count as regularly? It happens to a few teams. They get a really good set of players, get up the seedings which makes it easier, then players get older etc and they drop back down the rankings. Same has happened with a few teams. We just have to find that set of players and push on.

Do you know the circumstances surrounding the fact they have a "good set of players", when they have never had such a set of players before?

[Gordy M]

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Do you know the circumstances surrounding the fact they have a "good set of players", when they have never had such a set of players before?

Nope....im not saying what Iceland are doing is wrong, but what im saying is that its not necessarily the sole reason, beacuse if it is, then that means that Northern Ireland, Wales and the ROI must be investing heavily in coaching and facilities etc? Im not sure they are. Maybe they just get a decent set of players, decent manager and a bit of luck in qualifying?

[Ozyhibby]

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Upside down garbage. The players who do make the grade for Scotland are not to blame. It's the lack of quality players and the lack of any plan to produce them in numbers.

Have to say when it comes to any argument about the SFA you never fail to take their side, even when it's as plain as the nose on your face that as guardians of the sport in this country they are an abject failure at almost everything they take on.

100% correct


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[Kato]

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Nope....im not saying what Iceland are doing is wrong, but what im saying is that its not necessarily the sole reason, beacuse if it is, then that means that Northern Ireland, Wales and the ROI must be investing heavily in coaching and facilities etc? Im not sure they are. Maybe they just get a decent set of players, decent manager and a bit of luck in qualifying?

So is it just "bad luck" that Scotland have failed to qualify the last 10 tournaments? We wouldn't know of course as they haev zero investment in infrastructure and the quality of coaching has stayed at the same level for years.

Whatever Northern Ireland, Wales and the ROI do, it's better than our national organisation.

[JimBHibees]

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Nope....im not saying what Iceland are doing is wrong, but what im saying is that its not necessarily the sole reason, beacuse if it is, then that means that Northern Ireland, Wales and the ROI must be investing heavily in coaching and facilities etc? Im not sure they are. Maybe they just get a decent set of players, decent manager and a bit of luck in qualifying?

Maybe better trying to take as much luck out of the equation by investing appropriately in higher quality coaching and facilities such as Iceland have done. They have very few players and a tiny population lets study and copy what they have done. Just happened to be at Oriam at the weekend that is an amazing facility and Hearts have landed very well to have that on their doorstep.

[WeeRussell]

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Didn't have a bad game! They conceded 4 goals. Where is the positive in that?

I said other than that extremely bad error, MCGINN didn't have a bad game. Nothing else.

[Gordy M]

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So is it just "bad luck" that Scotland have failed to qualify the last 10 tournaments? We wouldn't know of course as they haev zero investment in infrastructure and the quality of coaching has stayed at the same level for years.

Whatever Northern Ireland, Wales and the ROI do, it's better than our national organisation.

Where did i say it was just down to bad luck??? I said it has been a contributing factor along with a lot of other things including good players and management.

So you dont know what ROI, Northern Ireland and Wales do but its better than us? Ok then.

[Gordy M]

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Maybe better trying to take as much luck out of the equation by investing appropriately in higher quality coaching and facilities such as Iceland have done. They have very few players and a tiny population lets study and copy what they have done. Just happened to be at Oriam at the weekend that is an amazing facility and Hearts have landed very well to have that on their doorstep.

Im not saying what Iceland are doing is wrong. What im saying is that sometimes teams land on a good team and managememt and have just as much success. I dont think Scotland are a bad team and not nearly as poor as folk are making out. If Scotland qualify for this tournament, then is everything ok, is the SFA great now?