Fan Buy Out Launched/BuyHibs/Q&A Answers

[Andy74]

The reason I've been concerned about how much actual expertise and experience that the team have is that I am not convinced that there would be enough knowlege and understanding to make this work.

These anwers have underlined this to me - not much understanding, not much detail. When you talk up your credentials you have to be able to deliver the area of expertise you say you have.

After all, this is the board of a company that want to own Hibs.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The two aren't mutually exclusive though, and they would undoubtedly have the necessary contact with STF at the appropriate time if the sale was to proceed. A meeting with the board of the company they're proposing to take over - together with a director of the prospective selling company - would be far more productive at this stage than a meeting with the non-participating 'owner', particularly when the board have been formulating their own plans for a sale. Declining this meeting has done nothing but harm to their cause.

Have I missed something in all of this? What plan have the Hibs board been formulating?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Have I missed something in all of this? What plan have the Hibs board been formulating?

They are expected to announce something at the AGM.



2017.

[worcesterhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So a fan with 1 share will have the same voting rights as a fan with 1000 shares?

As far as I can see fans wouldn't get a direct vote no matter how many shares they had. BuyHibs would have elected members on the board who would get to vote on Hibs fans behalf.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As far as I can see fans wouldn't get a direct vote no matter how many shares they had. BuyHibs would have elected members on the board who would get to vote on Hibs fans behalf.

Voting and board membership are different things. But, you are right in that donating to this does not get you shares or a vote at the AGM as far as I can see. The owners of those shares bought with your money would be BuyHibs and they would vote at the AGM. I haven't seen any discussion of a mechanism to make that vote representative of the membership.

Edit: I'm not sure they fully understand in their answer either the difference between voting at AGMs and board decisions - they are talking about voting on board matters and asking the membership with one vote per member. Totally impractical to do this on all board decisions. You don't tend to get much voting on board anyway, it is a collegiate decision generally.

[Caversham Green]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Have I missed something in all of this? What plan have the Hibs board been formulating?

Much of their own survey revolved around the prospect of fan ownership and Leeann has hinted at it in many of her meetings with fans. In the board's statement in response to BuyHibs' approach they said:

It is well known that the Board has been consulting widely with supporters and is fine tuning its strategy for the future of the Club.

It seems reasonable to infer that sale of the club is a part of that strategy. Of course they haven't publicised those plans yet, presumably they want to present a joined-up strategy before they do - something that BuyHibs would have benefitted from.

[jacomo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Reported wages to turnover was 49% in the 2013 accounts, due to a combination of lower staff costs (£3.9m) and the highest turnover in five years. I expect that turnover will have fallen this year (financial year ended July 2014), so would expect the percentage to have increased again. What it is this current year is anyone's guess. Wages to turnover ratio for the last five published accounts was 61%, 68%, 69%, 60%, 49%.

Yes, but this figure covers other wages beyond the playing staff does it not? I don't think its possible to determine the budget just for the squad from the published accounts.

[GreenPJ]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Brian Kennedy was hoping to get 3%p.a.from Rangers but was prepared to get none.The use of 10% is way above any kind of return available for a loan shows woolly thinking at best or ignorance at worst.There should be no mention of a dividend in any shape or form.What security would be offered to those making loans?Don't think that possibility has been mentioned anywhere.

Is that not the point, there is no security for those making the loans but in return there is an offer of a high but discretionary dividend aka interest rate? They are relying again that people investing are doing it for the benefit of the football club as opposed to an investment opportunity.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I rather liked the idea of a Hibs Hostility section!

Me too. Let's face it, we could fill it no bother

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It was in yesterday's news - the response was that they asked to meet with the 'owners' and they got a reply saying the 'board' want to talk to them, which they refused.

I'll try find the link, think it was in the evening news though, i read it on twitter

Thanks. However, my question was, "why" did they refuse?

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Was Green Goblins question answered about whether buy Hibs have turned down a meeting with the Club ?

Thanks Ronnie. As I posted to IanM above (on my phone so can't multiquote!) the question aacknowledged that they had refused the meeting and was asking why they had done that. So no, it hasn't been answered. Cheers.

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think I am right in saying that you have since refused that invitation. (If that is incorrect, I will remove this post).

Can you explain why you did this? It doesn't seem like a helpful or progressive decision to me. (Apologies if I have missed an answer to this in your posts above). Thanks. GG

Bumped again, as other posters have mentioned it. (Thanks RK and IM)

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Much of their own survey revolved around the prospect of fan ownership and Leeann has hinted at it in many of her meetings with fans. In the board's statement in response to BuyHibs' approach they said:



It seems reasonable to infer that sale of the club is a part of that strategy. Of course they haven't publicised those plans yet, presumably they want to present a joined-up strategy before they do - something that BuyHibs would have benefitted from.

She did more than hint at the meeting I attended. She said she had a plan but was wanting to throw it out to the fans to see if anything else was out there. I just wish those at BuyHibs and the Club (STF/Petrie/Board) would get together and do what's best for our club. They are "ALL" jockeying around for a position that makes them look good imo.

[The Baldmans Comb]

I am becoming more and more impressed by this BuyHibs group. They are a little naïve but very well intentioned and I have decided to make a pledge.

No money changes hands as yet but I am happy to give them my qualified support and allow things to develop.

I can't say I know any of the posters here but there does seem to be a lot of very closed minds unwilling to listen fairly to anything that is just a little different from the norm.

[HappyAsHellas]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am becoming more and more impressed by this BuyHibs group. They are a little naïve but very well intentioned and I have decided to make a pledge.

No money changes hands as yet but I am happy to give them my qualified support and allow things to develop.

I can't say I know any of the posters here but there does seem to be a lot of very closed minds unwilling to listen fairly to anything that is just a little different from the norm.

I don't think people are unwilling to listen - I asked the question about the German model and they said they would like the fans to have 49% which on the face of it seems fine. The only troubling matter is where does the 49% of the costs come from? The fans would then, as I see it be responsible for almost half the turnover every year, which amounts to more than what I think is affordable. It has to come down to money being available every year and this is a problem for me. Even FoH are running at 80% of their promised DD's, and that's when they're top of the league and everything looking rosy. One dodgy season and the whole house of cards can come tumbling down. I would like fan participation and we all pay in our own way, so I think 20% would be more realistic, but that's just my thoughts on the matter. I am still undecided, but erring on the side of caution - for Hibs sake.

[jacomo]

Personally I don't think DD funds are a viable long term proposition, and I expect FoH will find people steadily dropping away at Hearts. It's a bit alarming when such a source of funding is referred to as a way of bolstering the player budget year on year.

However, it is possible that you could use this scheme to build up a buy out fund, and then replace it with something else. As it stands, season ticket holders are the biggest investors in the club year in year out, and something that builds upon this model - maybe a lower-priced membership scheme - could be the way forward.

The focus should be on filling ER - that in itself would address many issues.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am becoming more and more impressed by this BuyHibs group. They are a little naïve but very well intentioned and I have decided to make a pledge.

No money changes hands as yet but I am happy to give them my qualified support and allow things to develop.

I can't say I know any of the posters here but there does seem to be a lot of very closed minds unwilling to listen fairly to anything that is just a little different from the norm.

Interesting. What has impressed you?

I dont see any closed minds at all. Just lots of challenge which you have to expect.

[The Baldmans Comb]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Interesting. What has impressed you?

I dont see any closed minds at all. Just lots of challenge which you have to expect.

I liked the original presentation brought by the St Pats boys video stream. I liked the Hibs credentials of the people involved.I liked the fact that they are just taking one step at a time and not going to go for 100% outright ownership and are willing to work with high worth individuals with more clout and I liked the fact that their block of shares would be under the control of one member one vote and finally I thought their Q and A's were well answered.

Fundamentally I like the structure of fan involvement in the running of a football club to a greater or lesser extent. This doesn't have to be outright ownership and the BuyHibs people seem to recognise this.

I agree everything should be challenged but there seems to be some posters who find one or two things they don't like and immediately call everything a shambles, fiasco or every other negative adjective they can conjure.

Where do you stand? What do you like/not like?

[Mikey]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Buyhibs and Forever Hibernian are the same are they not? (ie Kano's)

I believe so.

My understanding is that after Forever Hibernian made an offer of £1 for the club (debt free), they were told to go away and come back with something that was workable.

BuyHibs is their answer.

[Baldy Foghorn]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I believe so.

My understanding is that after Forever Hibernian made an offer of £1 for the club (debt free), they were told to go away and come back with something that was workable.

BuyHibs is their answer.

Can't believe Hibs knocked that back, the sheer audacity of STF

[DarlingtonHibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I believe so.

My understanding is that after Forever Hibernian made an offer of £1 for the club (debt free), they were told to go away and come back with something that was workable.

BuyHibs is their answer.

Maybe if they offered a discount at the four in hand that might sway it -- £1 and debt free - LOL

[greenginger]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I believe so.

My understanding is that after Forever Hibernian made an offer of £1 for the club (debt free), they were told to go away and come back with something that was workable.

BuyHibs is their answer.

Offer of £1

Is that where Craig Whyte has been hiding !

Even he did'nt have the nerve to ask Murray to pay off the Rangers debts before he let himself out.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I liked the original presentation brought by the St Pats boys video stream. I liked the Hibs credentials of the people involved.I liked the fact that they are just taking one step at a time and not going to go for 100% outright ownership and are willing to work with high worth individuals with more clout and I liked the fact that their block of shares would be under the control of one member one vote and finally I thought their Q and A's were well answered.

Fundamentally I like the structure of fan involvement in the running of a football club to a greater or lesser extent. This doesn't have to be outright ownership and the BuyHibs people seem to recognise this.

I agree everything should be challenged but there seems to be some posters who find one or two things they don't like and immediately call everything a shambles, fiasco or every other negative adjective they can conjure.

Where do you stand? What do you like/not like?

Fundamentally I don't see why I would need to pay more money, like 80% on top of my season ticket to own a football club. I want to watch one.

I haven't seen anything that suggests I need to be thinking about owning the club.

I don't like the timing. We have to be together at this time I think and supporting the changes the club are making.

I don't like the fact it is going against what the consulatations and club survey returned in terms of appetite for this.

As for the group, I am not impressed with the quality of the expertise. I really dislike the fact that their experience has been talked up to be something its not in some cases. I think it has been badly thought out and badly delivered.

Have they got investors or not? Depends who you ask - there is some suggestion that fans in Australia got to hear some names - we didn't.

The one vote per member thing illustrates some lack of knowledge - their thinking is a bit mixed up and is confusing board membership and decision making with shareholder voting at the AGM. Members won't own any shares so I'm not sure what the mechanism they are talking about is and i don't think they know.

Their idea that the debt will be written off is frankly laughable and their examples aren't comparable.

They don't seem to understand interest versus dividend. Either way I'm not in favour of profit leaving the club.

I'm certainly not in favour of them backing out of talking to the Board. Their Communications Director, on the PM board, welcomed the statement form Leeann on the day it came out as positive news, now though, they don't want to talk. Seems to me like a pressure group, not a sensible approach.

There's more but I'm sure that gives some idea..

[ancient hibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fundamentally I don't see why I would need to pay more money, like 80% on top of my season ticket to own a football club. I want to watch one.

I haven't seen anything that suggests I need to be thinking about owning the club.

I don't like the timing. We have to be together at this time I think and supporting the changes the club are making.

I don't like the fact it is going against what the consulatations and club survey returned in terms of appetite for this.

As for the group, I am not impressed with the quality of the expertise. I really dislike the fact that their experience has been talked up to be something its not in some cases. I think it has been badly thought out and badly delivered.

Have they got investors or not? Depends who you ask - there is some suggestion that fans in Australia got to hear some names - we didn't.

The one vote per member thing illustrates some lack of knowledge - their thinking is a bit mixed up and is confusing board membership and decision making with shareholder voting at the AGM. Members won't own any shares so I'm not sure what the mechanism they are talking about is and i don't think they know.

Their idea that the debt will be written off is frankly laughable and their examples aren't comparable.

They don't seem to understand interest versus dividend. Either way I'm not in favour of profit leaving the club.

I'm certainly not in favour of them backing out of talking to the Board. Their Communications Director, on the PM board, welcomed the statement form Leeann on the day it came out as positive news, now though, they don't want to talk. Seems to me like a pressure group, not a sensible approach.

There's more but I'm sure that gives some idea..

Thank you -you've saved me a lot of keying.

[jdships]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fundamentally I don't see why I would need to pay more money, like 80% on top of my season ticket to own a football club. I want to watch one.

I haven't seen anything that suggests I need to be thinking about owning the club.

I don't like the timing. We have to be together at this time I think and supporting the changes the club are making.

I don't like the fact it is going against what the consulatations and club survey returned in terms of appetite for this.

As for the group, I am not impressed with the quality of the expertise. I really dislike the fact that their experience has been talked up to be something its not in some cases. I think it has been badly thought out and badly delivered.

Have they got investors or not? Depends who you ask - there is some suggestion that fans in Australia got to hear some names - we didn't.

The one vote per member thing illustrates some lack of knowledge - their thinking is a bit mixed up and is confusing board membership and decision making with shareholder voting at the AGM. Members won't own any shares so I'm not sure what the mechanism they are talking about is and i don't think they know.

Their idea that the debt will be written off is frankly laughable and their examples aren't comparable.

They don't seem to understand interest versus dividend. Either way I'm not in favour of profit leaving the club.

I'm certainly not in favour of them backing out of talking to the Board. Their Communications Director, on the PM board, welcomed the statement form Leeann on the day it came out as positive news, now though, they don't want to talk. Seems to me like a pressure group, not a sensible approach.

There's more but I'm sure that gives some idea..

There is Buy-Hibs, HoH, Forever Hibernian, who will be next to throw their hat in the ring ?
For me there is too much " spin" and not enough hard business acumen on view !!

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am becoming more and more impressed by this BuyHibs group. They are a little naïve but very well intentioned and I have decided to make a pledge.

No money changes hands as yet but I am happy to give them my qualified support and allow things to develop.

I can't say I know any of the posters here but there does seem to be a lot of very closed minds unwilling to listen fairly to anything that is just a little different from the norm.

I am more than willing to listen, I want to be convinced.

But all I hear back is (well intentioned though i'm sure it is) fairly amateurish and ill thought-out.

Given football's ability to attract clowns, shysters etc, I think we should all be very sceptical. The burden of proof is on those seeking our support.

What's more, they should welcome the scrutiny, they should welcome their personal credentials being called into question.

[ancient hibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is that not the point, there is no security for those making the loans but in return there is an offer of a high but discretionary dividend aka interest rate? They are relying again that people investing are doing it for the benefit of the football club as opposed to an investment opportunity.

How can you say there is no security for those giving loans-has that been decided?
It's either a dividend(discretionary)or an interest payment(compulsory)can't be both.
If I loaned a million quid at 10% interest, after 5 years I would have got the equivalent of half my money back but still be due the whole lot of it.
If anyone was to get a return from Scottish football it would be the first time since Fergus at Celtic-apart from the mafia at Ibrox.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fundamentally I don't see why I would need to pay more money, like 80% on top of my season ticket to own a football club. I want to watch one.

I haven't seen anything that suggests I need to be thinking about owning the club.

I don't like the timing. We have to be together at this time I think and supporting the changes the club are making.

I don't like the fact it is going against what the consulatations and club survey returned in terms of appetite for this.

As for the group, I am not impressed with the quality of the expertise. I really dislike the fact that their experience has been talked up to be something its not in some cases. I think it has been badly thought out and badly delivered.

Have they got investors or not? Depends who you ask - there is some suggestion that fans in Australia got to hear some names - we didn't.

The one vote per member thing illustrates some lack of knowledge - their thinking is a bit mixed up and is confusing board membership and decision making with shareholder voting at the AGM. Members won't own any shares so I'm not sure what the mechanism they are talking about is and i don't think they know.

Their idea that the debt will be written off is frankly laughable and their examples aren't comparable.

They don't seem to understand interest versus dividend. Either way I'm not in favour of profit leaving the club.

I'm certainly not in favour of them backing out of talking to the Board. Their Communications Director, on the PM board, welcomed the statement form Leeann on the day it came out as positive news, now though, they don't want to talk. Seems to me like a pressure group, not a sensible approach.

There's more but I'm sure that gives some idea..

Spot on, couldnt agree more. All seems less than transparent and simply dont understand them not wanting to meet with the Board and discuss their plan. Investors question is completely unclear and frankly not good enough.

[offshorehibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is that not the point, there is no security for those making the loans but in return there is an offer of a high but discretionary dividend aka interest rate? They are relying again that people investing are doing it for the benefit of the football club as opposed to an investment opportunity.

Why do we want to be taking on loans that just means more debt, were wanting to reduce debt.

If people are wanting to invest in Hibs fine but not a loan.

[DarlingtonHibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fundamentally I don't see why I would need to pay more money, like 80% on top of my season ticket to own a football club. I want to watch one.

I haven't seen anything that suggests I need to be thinking about owning the club.

I don't like the timing. We have to be together at this time I think and supporting the changes the club are making.

I don't like the fact it is going against what the consulatations and club survey returned in terms of appetite for this.

As for the group, I am not impressed with the quality of the expertise. I really dislike the fact that their experience has been talked up to be something its not in some cases. I think it has been badly thought out and badly delivered.

Have they got investors or not? Depends who you ask - there is some suggestion that fans in Australia got to hear some names - we didn't.

The one vote per member thing illustrates some lack of knowledge - their thinking is a bit mixed up and is confusing board membership and decision making with shareholder voting at the AGM. Members won't own any shares so I'm not sure what the mechanism they are talking about is and i don't think they know.

Their idea that the debt will be written off is frankly laughable and their examples aren't comparable.

They don't seem to understand interest versus dividend. Either way I'm not in favour of profit leaving the club.

I'm certainly not in favour of them backing out of talking to the Board. Their Communications Director, on the PM board, welcomed the statement form Leeann on the day it came out as positive news, now though, they don't want to talk. Seems to me like a pressure group, not a sensible approach.

There's more but I'm sure that gives some idea..

Andy, lets be honest, they don't havea clue what they are doing, and frankly I'm not surprised STF doesn't want to waste a minute with them,, I've listen to the podcast, read the Q&A etc, its a shambles, and I'd expect a secondary pupil doing business studies to produce a better plan, the ohther option is of course it's just about ego's.