Come on my fellow Brother and sisters,
This crap about Butcher should go if this or that happens. what the heck is this all about. Have we lost sight of who's team this really Is.
Fenlon!! was the one who brought this BUNCH OF NO-HOPPERS to HIB'S Not Butcher. so come on Give the man a decent run for his money and our sanity. he has always said that come summer new faces will be coming in and that Christmas time was no time for panic buy's.
November to this day is not long enough for us to Judge, we are a big club but that doesn't give us the right to be one of the best over night, for to long now the board have sacked Managers for not getting results, when what we should be doing is giving he manager a fair crack at the Job and allow them to show what they can do.
Two more seasons for Butcher enough time for him to get results and give us back our pride.
LONG GONE ARE THE TURNBULL YEARS.
Results 1 to 30 of 89
Thread: Butcher and His JOB
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12-05-2014 06:16 PM #1
Butcher and His JOB
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12-05-2014 06:28 PM #3
They weren't rubbish when Fenlon was here though. Craig, Nelson, Harris, Collins and McGivern were all better players under Fenlon.
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12-05-2014 06:28 PM #4madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
This "sack the manager" trash has to stop. Terry is looking visibly ill and frustrated. I'd take a manager who appears to care, I'd take an assistant that rants back at the abusive fans any day. Better that than having solemn wasters who couldn't give a toss (aka Calderwood).
This is Fenlon and Calderwoods fault. Calderwood destroyed moral at the club to almost disastrous levels, and was smug and aloof about it. Fenlon tried to recover some respect and did that. However, we must look forward and move forward.
WE NEED TO STOP THINKING ABOUT BYGONE DAYS!
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12-05-2014 06:29 PM #5
I agree, far too early IMO to be calling for Butcher to go. He is still working with a bunch of gutless nobodies that Fenlon cobbled together. He didn't do much in the January window, he obviously thought he had enough in the team to see out the season and then the work would start in the summer for the new season (TBF he like everybody else could never have predicted how heavily we would spiral).
He hasn't covered himself in glory with some of his substitutions but I will reserve my judgment on him until after he has had time and the chance to clear out Fenlons utter garbage of a team and build HIS squad.
He has a better chance of turning things around if we give him a bit of support. I understand how frustrated we all are and we have every right to be but I think turning on the manager and wanting him to leave already is a bit ridiculous IMO.
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12-05-2014 06:29 PM #6This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 06:30 PM #7This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 06:34 PM #8
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For what its worth Fenlons time at Hibs was coming to an end. But none of this is on him. This is Butchers mess and his alone.
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12-05-2014 06:38 PM #9madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
McGivern has been useless at crossing and grossly unable to get back (due to fitness and pace) even whilst Fenlon was here. The only difference is Fenlon told him to stay within his own half and never cross. "Get it to Griffiths" was Fenlons motto and rightly so. Harris is just back from a horrendously long injury layoff so I can't imagine what you are basing this on?
Nelson and Collins. Where do I begin? Nelson played better when Hanlon was in the team because I cannot stress how important Hanlon is for us. People slate him but he is actually not an awful defender and can pass! Nelson has regularly kicked the ball out of play all season as far as I can recall. I guess we were playing more side-ways passing under Fenlon though...Collins, has never looked a better player, he has been consistently average. Huge workrate but no peaks or troughs in performances really - indifferent.
What people are also forgetting is that Butcher has had to put up with one of the worst injury records the club has suffered for a few years. Some of our crucial players have been injured at the wrong times.
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12-05-2014 06:44 PM #10madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 06:49 PM #11This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Nelson - people were moaning how poor his distribution was from the get go.
Harris - injured mostly and slowly returning, so can't compare.
Collins - always praised for effort, but was under pressure before Butcher came in
McGivern - this guy has been pretty inept all season.
Before Fenlon left we were a football team going absolutely nowhere. We were in the top 6 but had just been beaten by Hearts, and outplayed by Aberdeen. It was clear to many that this team was not a top6 team. Inverness, Motherwell, Aberdeen, and Dundee Utd were all looking in better shape than us under Fenlon. Butcher managed a brief partial revival, before killing the team spirt with his comments about their quality etc.
Butcher has mismanaged the situation, but under no circumstances were the players good enough under Fenlon.
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12-05-2014 06:53 PM #12This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
He is doing a bad job.
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12-05-2014 06:56 PM #13This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 07:08 PM #14madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
No, you have grossly misunderstood what I stated. Are you saying that under a different manager Ronaldo would be tripping over his laces and looking like a right idiot? No, he wouldn't. He may play better, he may play worse depending on the style that the manager deploys. One things for sure though is if TB arranged for Ronaldo or Messi to play for us in the playoffs they would not, even under him, look like they should be amateur footballers...
Sadly, like many Hibs fans, you are on a witch hunt (for understandable reasons) but to defend these players and attack the manager is futile and stupid. We sack another manager forking out compensation, we keep these wasters and eventually they'll walk out for free to other clubs and play well for whatever manager is there. Then we'll get a new manager, he'll bring in his own players (wasting money) and we wake up put our foot in the same puddle and realise it is Groundhog day.
Rankin being an example as he has played well for many managers but just not at Hibs. Doyle is doing better down south than he did for us at Hibs etc. Butcher has done a bad job but to suggest a manager is responsible for "professional" footballers being professional is flawed. It is a job. Could you blame your manager if you were useless? No. So why can footballers who earn 1k+ a week minimum? Ridiculous.
As far as I can see, Butcher has told the players to wipe their own ****** but most seem to have enjoyed getting the Andrex supplied for them...I sense a John Collins (esque) type situation here.
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12-05-2014 07:17 PM #15madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I can't help but think, that from the above, for many, our survey will say "a kid that knows how to put lego together"...
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12-05-2014 07:21 PM #16This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 07:27 PM #18
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12-05-2014 07:33 PM #19This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Never mind the Turnbull era, I'm borderline yearning for the Blobby Williamson era!!
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12-05-2014 07:36 PM #20madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I also have not seen 1 post in this thread saying Fenlon is responsible for "all our problems". Seems to be a large proportion of people struggling to comprehend posts in all honesty. And in doing so try to breed negativity in a thread about supporting the current manager. Once again, no one, I have read on this thread, has said "Fenlon is to blame for all of this". I have seen many upon many threads and posts about "Fenlon had us in 5th and SC Finals and" blah blah blah. I have also seen a post on here that clearly states "This is Butchers mess and his alone.". You fed up of these comments as well, or do managers only get sympathy when they are sacked or walk away?
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12-05-2014 07:50 PM #21madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If the players relegate us, you mean. They've been here all season. And just incase people have forgotten. Record up until Fenlon left which if these superstars had won every game they could have accumulated 42 points up until end of November alone (Fenlon leaving). Lets have a look why don't we:
L, L, D, W, D, W, W, L, W, D, L, L, L, D = 16 points in 14 games I make it. Hardly terrific is it?
Managers don't relegate teams. Players do. Sooner people realise that the better.
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12-05-2014 07:52 PM #22
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12-05-2014 08:00 PM #23This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Theirs only one person to blame for the demise of Hibs this season and thats who ever was responsible for not getting Griffiths and worse than that not getting in a competent replacement, IMHO Hibs are by no way the worst team in the SPL, Hibs are suffering because in 38 games we've scored just 31 goals pure and simple, the stats dont lie, if you dont score you can have all the possesion or build up play in the world it matters not a jot if they score the one chance and you squander all yours end of.
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12-05-2014 08:00 PM #24This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
What is a more realistic comparison is maybe Tony Pulis and Palace, he didn't take much but took a team that was struggling and really turned them round. Without a summer transfer window. Gus Poyet has done similar at Sunderland. Butcher has done the opposite, in fact quite similar to Hughes at ICT the team is performing worse. Now however it has come about, whether he has told players to leave, whether they don't like the methods employed by him and Malpas or whether the players can't adapt to his tactics.
It IS this one man that is the catalyst for how things are at ER just now, if we were doing well would he be getting the credit, was he getting credit after we beat Hearts at new year?
I've never once defended the players, I think we should keep a few but very little. I don't think performances have been anywhere near acceptable. But I'm not on a witch hunt, I'm just simply agreeing with those that think where we are is unacceptable.
A managers job is to set expectations and make those that don't achieve them accountable. To suggest that a manager isn't responsible for keeping players professional is flawed not the other way round. He is there to manage them of course he is responsible. Look at Celtic with Griffiths and Stokes in the last couple of weeks, they both needed managed.
I'm not hounding him out the door, I just don't feel comfortable based on what I've seen over the last 7 months that he is the man for the job. If he stays I hope i'm wrong.
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12-05-2014 08:02 PM #25madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Soares, Doherty, Francomb, O'Donovan, Kujabi, Clancy, Kuqi? Vine? Mullen? Need I continue really?
Original poster was perhaps a bit over-exuberant in his criticism of Fenlon but his signings, and Calderwoods' signings being wage thieves, and being not great, have set this club back. May I remind you also that Boetang, Watmore and Haynes were brought in as temporary measures and will, barring something apocalyptic, not be here next season...
We cannot blame Fenlon for the 3 but where does the blame lie for the other 16+ others? Butcher still? I'd personally say the players but hey, lets all protect Fenlon and slate Butcher (our current manager btw)...
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12-05-2014 08:02 PM #26This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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12-05-2014 08:15 PM #27madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Please just look at my post regarding form up until November 23rd. If it was simply the manager then clearly, I'm struggling with logical thinking, because all I see is incapable players being brought in on the cheap, managers getting sacked and the next manager gets the same. Is the 5 year plan to continually sack managers over the space of 20 years until we luckily unearth a Hibs supporting "one of us" Alex Ferguson or something? Fans need to get real. We are failing for these reasons:
Other clubs speculate to accumulate; Hibs accumulate to speculate.
Other clubs strive to get best possible signings in, and as early as possible; Hibs leave it until 1 week before season starts and sign players then (3rd, 4th, 5th choice signing done on the cheap).
Other clubs realise that ultimately fans want to see a successful team on the pitch; Hibs think fans just want the club to engage with the community.
Other clubs have a better relationship with fans; Hibs have systematically disintegrated this through the years.
Other clubs do rallying calls and pull off big victories; Hibs fail and embarrass fans.
If you want the best, you need the best players and a decent manager. Players will always be more important than a manager. Your Crystal Palace example is flawed mainly due to the fact they have some skilful players that have a bit of class. Plus, guess what, they brought in players like Joe Ledley for a rumored price of 2.5mil. So, once again, argument flawed. Buy the best or expect the worst. Simple as.
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12-05-2014 08:24 PM #28madhatterLeft by mutual consent!This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
16 points in 14 games for Fenlon = possibility of 42
Who on here has stated Butcher has done an excellent job? Some people are simply stating he has barely been in the door and hasn't brought in any of his earmarked players. The same fans that gave Fenlon 2 years are wanting Butcher kicked out. Are you lot serious? Not just Jambos sang "Only one Pat Fenlon!" whilst playing us. Remember that one, eh? Fun times sitting in the stands losing and/or struggling to pass the ball forward with the opposition fans singing "One Pat Fenlon!!!". Ah the good old days, eh...
Butcher, you shall, because you aren't Irish and have Rangers links, sadly get a short time at Hibs, and you will get your gonads flayed on an open fire soon enough...
People need to stop defaulting to "Sack the Manager". Has not got us anywhere and continually sets the club back 1-2 years each time. Hence why the club stuck with Fenlon so long. Gave him a chance and they were going to continue to until he left.
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12-05-2014 08:55 PM #29This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
There are other things not right at Hibs, but there is no excuse for the rapid decline of this team. I've can't remember another team capitulate as badly as we have done this season.
And as for discrediting anyone who thinks he is doing a bad job with the Rangers stuff etc.... I haven't read a single post even mention it.
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12-05-2014 08:57 PM #30This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
And before you ask who I suggest, I don't know, but the evidence so far indicates it isn't likely to be Butcher.
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