It was a great paper. When you think of that magnificent giant of a building chuntering away in Market St and the office appartment it has now become in Orchard Brae, you shake your head at the demise of the newspaper industry.
The death of the Evening News would be serious too. Local folk need local news, especially old folk. Where else are they going to get it? Certainly not on the radio or TV.
Here's hoping some buyer will come along.
Results 61 to 90 of 139
Thread: Evening News and Scotsman
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17-11-2018 12:34 PM #61
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17-11-2018 12:38 PM #62
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And politically too. Well, it is with me. Wouldn't touch one newspaper with a ten foot barge pole, and that's sad. It's sad that I won't pick up an alternative viewpoint simply because it's too alternative to what I think, but a large part of me can argue that's down to everything becoming even more polarised today. I'm too young to remember much of the media coverage during the Mrs Thatcher years and I imagine it was probably very polarised then, but at the moment? Everything is just so 'us v them'. Football. Scottish politics. UK politics. International politics. Debate is dying and shouty whataboutery is too prevalent on all sides.
It's probably just me but I'm heartily sick of the whole lot of it now.
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17-11-2018 12:40 PM #63
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17-11-2018 12:46 PM #64This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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17-11-2018 12:48 PM #65
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17-11-2018 12:58 PM #66This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I would also add that if the Scotsman goes under it will be demise of any vestiges of a national media voice emanating from outside Glasgow.
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17-11-2018 01:05 PM #67
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17-11-2018 01:17 PM #68
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Thank god my Mrs had the hindsight to transfer her pension when Johnston press made her redundant.
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17-11-2018 02:32 PM #69
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The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.
What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.
Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.
When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.
I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.Last edited by Squirrel 1875; 17-11-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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17-11-2018 02:33 PM #70This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sorry to disagree but I think that ship sailed a long time ago, at least with The Scotsman.
I hate the rag that is the Daily Record (or Daily Mirror, Scottish branch) but, as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse than read the Herald now and again. It's not so Glasgow centric as you might think and is reasonably balance politically.
I'm an independence supporter, but I wouldn't read the National because it's too one sided. I think the Herald treats each side much more fairly.
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17-11-2018 02:51 PM #71
Quite simply they've not kept up with the times, nowadays many people use online media first then maybe buy a paper, as a way of enticing new/occasional readers to buy their papers their Web offering is woeful, its almost like its been set up by a competitor to put them under and management haven't noticed.
As for the editorial stance, I've not read it in a while as it was, to me at least, too much the opposite of my view, reading above I've either been unlucky in the editions I bought or its changed over time.
For what it's worth having only polar opposites being published (indy/no or Brexit etc) is a bad road to go down, people will only read what appeals (see my previous paragraph!) so will never change their opinion on something, we really need some quality balanced reporting that shows arguments from both sides of an issue, it's there that change can happen.
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17-11-2018 02:58 PM #72This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
You're absolutely spot on about the decline in political discourse. It's a general issue though. See the Brexiteers in England and Republicans in the US as other examples of the same phenomenon.
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17-11-2018 03:01 PM #73This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I suggest you have a long, hard, look at the best-recommended comments from this British National establishment publication debating The (The:-) Scotsman’s demise:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/15/the-scotsman-future-liberal-voice
“Oh come on, it might have been a great journalistic firebrand once but it's been little but a whining, right-wing Unionist mouthpiece since Neil was at the helm -- and that wasn't yesterday.”
“The Orange Order's in -house magazine these days. Comments section polluted by sectarian knuckle-draggers.”
“The Scotsman may once have been a proud liberal paper but those days are long gone. It's now a rabid British nationalist rag. Just have a read of the comments below the bylines or the green ink gang in the letters section. Any paper that employs the likes of Jill Stephenson to sprout her hateful bile deserves to consigned to the dustbin. A sad end to a once proud paper but one that was partially self inflicted.”
“I was once a regular reader when it was a quality broadsheet, with great balanced reporting and great Scottish sport coverage (take note Guardian). I stopped when it moved down market and pinned its colours to the Unionist cause. Will I be sad if it goes under? Yes, it was once a good paper but it is the architect of its own downfall. Scotland needs a quality non-aligned newspaper which gives a forensic but fair analysis of the political scene north and south of the border.”
“The Scotsman sealed its own fate by its unthinking support of the Union. It has been consistently biased against independence for years and is now so far out of touch with its potential readership that it can't survive.”
“It had a very good chance to show that it was still a voice of 'Scottish aspiration' in 2014; instead it followed 95% of the Scottish media in the 'too wee, too poor' mantra of unionism. Can't say I'll be shedding too many tears at its demise then.”
“The Scotsman is a reactionary, right wing rag not fit for use as bum wipe. It's been in a death spiral for the last 20 years and nobody will miss it when it's gone.”
“The Scotsman is British Nationalist paper and that's why Scots have stopped reading it. Good riddance.”
“The Scotsman was bought and wrecked by the Barclays - who were admirers of and political travellers with Mrs Thatcher, and completely out of touch with Scottish public opinion. It has been a sad shadow of its former self for over twenty years. Since Magnus Linklater's time as editor, much of its coverage of Scottish politics has been weak and febrile. It has lost touch with its natural liberal and intellectual readership, becoming instead a thin concoction of often reactionary commentary, twee spreads on posh Edinburgh properties, parish pump controversies and not very funny gossip. The Scotsman was once Scotland's version of the Guardian but that was an age ago. I don't think it's ever likely to regain its reputation as Scotland's liberal and high minded paper of record, so let it pass into history. Few, other than those of us who can remember its glory days in the 1970s and 1980s, will mourn its passing.”
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17-11-2018 03:22 PM #74This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
If you are going to pick sides which is what the Scotsman done in 2014 then they should not be surprised when people on the other side turn their back on you.
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17-11-2018 03:28 PM #75
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Unfortunately, I think Scotland’s newspapers have failed to make themselves relevant, despite the golden opportunity the independence referendum and Brexit represented. I had high hopes for The National, but when my family back home (all avid yes voters) won’t buy it because it’s just repeating the Government line I think you know it’s reputation is suffering.
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17-11-2018 03:29 PM #76This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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17-11-2018 04:02 PM #77This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I have to say that the Scotsman website, which to their credit is still free to view, is a hard thing to get around. Maybe it's my PC but the site jumps about and takes a long time to load the pages.
During the referendum, I found the Scotsman to be pretty fair on the whole, as was The Herald. They published letters from both sides and I can recall articles by, among others, Lesley Riddoch, a pro-indy commentator.
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17-11-2018 04:15 PM #78This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Aye Right. Short memory maybe:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29154239
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17-11-2018 04:20 PM #79
Used to deliver the Evening News and the Pink as a paper boy. I remember asking Abdul the newsagent to increase my pay from £1.15 a week and he put it up to £1.25.😀 Made sure I read the Pink from cover to cover when delivering it.
Truth is nowadays I never buy a paper. I try and get my news from a wide variety of outlets instead of one agenda driven publication.
Good journalism is hard to find and media organisations really need to get with the times to prosper in these social media driven times. Which brings good things and of course some bad.
Can’t believe I used to walk miles in holiday resorts to get a day old Daily Record to read. Nowadays I wouldn’t take a Daily Record if offered a free lifetime supply. Unbelievable that I used to get football news through the blinkered eyes of the likes of Jim Traynor. People are so much more media savvy now.
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17-11-2018 04:48 PM #82This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Keep reading the National if you just want one side of the story.
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17-11-2018 04:49 PM #83This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
In that landscape bereft of any balanced view regarding Scotland's place in the world in our printed media what wasn't required was a paper with a balanced view, it was a paper aimed at people who already had a pro independence view and who needed something to counteract the 'too wee' 'too poor' 'too stupid' stance of the other papers and their overwhelmingly right wing owners printing stuff that was in many instances nothing short of downright lies.
At least the National is an honest paper and doesn't pretend it is presenting a 'balanced' view but rather printing stuff which reflects and presents the positives an independent Scotland could bring, though it does also acknowledge the difficulties becoming an independent nation could present in a reasonably honest fashion.
As for the Scotsman …. I think I have purchased the paper about 20 times in the last 5 years so I cant really comment on how pro or anti independence it is, but the general consensus seems to be that it had gone the way of the rest of the media in Scotland, so its hardly a surprise that by just being another tiny fish swimming in the pool of big fish all pushing pro union and anti independence / SNP propaganda down everybody's throat it has begun to flounder.
The situation that lead to the advent of the National can be illustrated by what happened during the referendum. On every talk show where people were taking part what you had was, for example Question time, where the subject was Scottish independence and the panel was made up of:
Kezia Dugdale … pro union
Ruth Davidson … pro union
Willie Rennie … pro union
A/N other … probably the editor of some pro union rag
John Swinney … pro independence
Welcome to Perth and our first question comes from Torquil Toryboy:
'Thanks David … could Scotland survive as an independent country?'
Dugdale …. 5 minutes on why not
Davidson … 5 minutes on why not
Rennie … 3 minutes on why not
Pro union rag editor …. 3 minutes on why not
Swinney … 3 minutes on why, during which he is constantly interrupted by Dimbleby and the 4 other panel members.
That's what a balanced approach to democracy looks like in this country … perhaps we need a 'National' TV station as well.Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 17-11-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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17-11-2018 04:53 PM #84
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It amuses me that current affairs programmes, especially ones broadcast by the BBC, still have a lengthy debate on "what the papers say" and never reference any of the online political blogs or websites...
It's as if they're scared to acknowledge their existence, and instead blithely pontificate on what's in the rags passing as "news" despite the readership of a large number of them falling through the floor.
We can all take a sample of a broad range of opinions online these days; I even very occasionally take a look at some of the shrill witterings of Jill Stephenson and her cohorts on Scotland in Union if I'm wanting a laugh, but the print and broadcast media need to realise they don't have the same reach they once had.
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17-11-2018 04:55 PM #85
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https://www.andrewscornerflag.co.uk/
Hope a link to my blog is okay, please delete if not.
Read all about it...Johnston’s Press administration led me to think about the Pink newspaper and how the newspaper industry is similar to the football industry in that it’s losing its traditional identity.
There’s other football/Hibs related articles also.
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17-11-2018 04:58 PM #86This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Scotsman is a quality paper?
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17-11-2018 05:13 PM #87This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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17-11-2018 05:16 PM #88This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Just for perspective this is where your quality paper sits today in terms of daily circulation :-(
REGIONAL DAILY (Jan-Jun 2018)
Press & Journal (Aberdeen) 45,935 (down 2%)
The Courier (Dundee) 34,260 (down 3%)
The Herald (Glasgow) 24,265 (down 6%)
Evening Express (Aberdeen) 21,003 (down 7%)
Evening Times (Glasgow) 19,130 (down 8%)
The Scotsman (Edinburgh) 13,739 (down 8%)
Evening Telegraph (Dundee) 12,351 (down 7%)
Paisley Daily Express (Paisley) 4,378 (down 3%)Last edited by Curried; 17-11-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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17-11-2018 06:15 PM #89
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17-11-2018 06:30 PM #90
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There seems to be an attitude here that the journalism in Scotland is sub-standard but the same people sticking with this line are saying they don’t buy newspapers and only get their news online.
I’m sorry but you are wrong. Scotland has some excellent journalists, Dani Garavelli, Paris Gourtsoyannis, Martyn McLaughlin to name but a few.
I had the pleasure of writing for Cable, a Scottish online publication which reported on global affairs from Scottish journalists across the world. The quality was right up there with premium titles but sadly it too failed.
Maybe the appetite for news has changed, maybe people don’t care about being informed or maybe people are just too sensitive about reading something which challenges their opinion and view of the world. I’d certainly recommend people pick up a newspaper, like The Scotsman or The Herald, and be surprised by the various views you’ll read while informing your own take on the world.
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