Alan Stubbs post match thoughts Hibs Vs. Raith

[silverhibee]

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The bit in bold (again). Are you seriously saying that you are not exaggerating when you say, and I quote:

"Every misplaced pass, off target shot, mistimed tackle is greeted by howls of derision. Our own players are slated at every opportunity!"

I'm sorry but that is not how I hear or see it at all, so we'll need to disagree on that.

Yes there are shouts of disappointment when things go wrong on the pitch, but that's not at all unusual at football matches, anywhere, at any club. Do you think fans should just sit in silence and only open their mouths to express themselves at "the good bits" during a football match? Personally, I think that's nonsensical and it aint gonna happen.

I listened to AS interview and what he said on this subject, and to be honest I was a bit surprised by what he said. He was defending his players and quite rightly so. I would rather he did that than slaughter them like Butcher & Malpas. But when it comes down to it the fans were simply expressing their frustration and disappointment that their team, who they desperately want to see doing well, had let them down again badly in the most ridiculous manner. And not for the first time, by a long way.

PS: You never commented / answered my point about after the Hamilton Accies play-off match.

Exactly.

Next we will be told celebrating a goal is just not on.

[silverhibee]

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AS was annoyed at the reaction of a few fans behind the dugout who questioned his substitutions. He asked sarcastically if fans would prefer that he should keep injured players on?

Been like that for a long time now, is it the same fans who think they are top managers, i sat there for a season and some of the things said from a few (same ones every other week) were ridiculous, why do folk sitting in the stand think they no better than the manager.

[silverhibee]

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Or because there is a weight of expectation on them at home, based on a misplaced sense of a right to win just because we are Hibs, whereas away fans behave in a different way? Who knows?

One thing we can't do is ignore this: the fans always say they are a constant in Hibs, whereas players, directors, managers etc are transient. So given that they are the constant, and that the team has been constantly crap is it not just a tiny wee bit worth considering that the home support could have something to do with the constant failure?

I'm not saying it is - but it is surely worth thinking about.

The home support right now reminds me of one of these failing social clubs, or bowling clubs. Membership is dwindling, yet they fail to see that it's because the club is full of miserable *******s like them.

IMO, the misery yesterday was learned behaviour, based on what has become expected from fellow fans. It bore little relation to what I saw on the pitch, and was a wee bit disturbing, if I'm honest. (OK, OK, I over egged it with the last sentence, but let's admit it - Easter Road is hardly the Nou Camp at the moment).

And the fans at the Nou Camp are always a happy bunch so they are, they are just like any other set of fans when it ain't going right the fans let the players no, whether that be throwing a pigs head on to the pitch or throwing coins, lighters, and mobile phones or just waving there white hankies, they show there disaproval of what's happening on the pitch.

[silverhibee]

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Discussing the situation, the day after the game, where the benefit of anonymity allows me the freedom to say what I think without the risk of a punch in the snout from the people who are annoying me.

I have to admit much of my frustration comes from the lack of response to my encouragement to those around me. My shouts of "come on guys, let's get behind the team, instead of being bally well moaning minnies"! (This was met by nothing more than some fierce rustling of sweetie papers and a guy blowing his nose).

So, in short, what I say on here has little impact on what happens in the stands or on the pitch. In a discussion where somebody is bleating because the manager had the temerity to have a go at the fans, my comments aren't out of place.

So you will come on here and have a moan at fans who were behaving like fannies (your words) but won't say nothing to them at the time when they are annoying you.

Maybe football isn't for you, as this stuff happens at football grounds all over the UK/Europe/Asia week in week out when things aren't going right for your team, surely you have noticed this before when you used to go to games in the good old days, when fans still boo'd and moaned at players.

[silverhibee]

And lets not forget fans were asked to stump up Premiership prices for this season so that we could get quality in so that we could beat teams like Raith Falkirk etc etc and get promotion at the first time of asking, Hibs fans have stuck by the club through some horrendous times over the years and paid good money to do so, as someone said earlier in a post, maybe this was Stubbs way of deflecting away from us not getting the three points.

[Stevie Reid]

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I love these threads. Every time we have a bad result people cant wait to come on here and have a go at a small number of fans. Mostly its people who sit on their hands and contribute nothing towards the atmosphere at games that moan the loudest.

I hate these threads. Every time we get a bad result the usual posters appear to remind us that we've been crap for the last x number of years, ignore any of the positivity at the club at the moment, and just generally wallow in misery.

Everyone is perfectly aware of how we ended up where we are and how long we'd been ***** for - I can't see what good it does to constantly go on about it, especially since the key people at our club now had nothing to do with that and are doing their best to change it.

As always, people will state that they're entitled to vent their frustration however they wish. That is true - and many people on this board will defend that right. But let's not pretend it does anyone any good.

[hibbymark]

Stubbs is a ex Celtic player and should know that any points dropped by them is treated as a disaster. In our current situation dropping points

at home to Raith Rovers with the equaliser being scored late in a game, when a win would have taken us 2nd in the league isn't good enough.

As unrealistic as going through till the end of the season without dropping any points is, its probably what we would have to do to put any

pressure on Hearts and to catch Rangers. Booing at the end of a game that felt like a defeat isn't new at Easter Rd and neither is fans sitting

behind the dug out having a opinion on substitutions.

[The Green Goblin]

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And the fans at the Nou Camp are always a happy bunch so they are, they are just like any other set of fans when it ain't going right the fans let the players no, whether that be throwing a pigs head on to the pitch or throwing coins, lighters, and mobile phones or just waving there white hankies, they show there disaproval of what's happening on the pitch.

I was at a game at Camp Nou many years ago, with a pal of mine who is a ST holder. Barca won 3-0 but as they came off, they were booed deafeningly by their own fans. I was confused about this, so I asked my pal why on earth they were booing their own team after winning 3-0. He said it was because they didn't try hard enough to entertain the fans. The win was easy, but they did it on automatic pilot. The fans were incensed by that and let rip.

[famous_fife_hibby]

While I appreciate Oxley has had some great games. He only seems to "command" his area in the bigger games ( Hearts, a Rangers ect) if the fans can see the lack of ( confidence?) when we are defending set pieces, surely the management team can? I will never "Boo" the team, but we are losing goals because the keeper either can't make his mind up or he just stays on his line. You can clearly see during a game that he does not inspire confidence in his defence. Does the management team not say anything or gear his training towards this?

[macd123]

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Given our home form - which has been highlighted on this thread, I would argue that these results buck the trend.

The fans didn't miss the chances. I don't think they backed the team as well as they could have either.

Dare I say it, if we were hanging onto a one goal lead against Hearts, the fans would be showing their appreciation of the players hanging onto the ball. There were plenty around me still baying for Hibs to get the ball up to the front, in the last 10 minutes.

it's for the players to say whether a bit more encouragement to hang onto the points would help them over the line. Given that this thread is about the manager's comments at the end, I think the message is that a bit more positivity would help.

But then, for several seasons now, it seems that the fans know a lot better than the manager of the club, what is good for it. They demand that heads roll, and that their choice ( for example TB) be the replacement. Then when it goes tits up, they turn round and blame the board.

Yet they never, ever think about ways they can change things by changing their own attitudes. Attitudes that have seen us win the square root of **** all in the last 60 years, and pretty much the same in the 50 odd years before that.

We are seeing a change in the way the team is managed. Yet, it seems to me that failure has become too great a comfort blanket for too many supporters. I have to conclude that there is a massive element of self defeating behaviour about our home support, rather than wait for the disappointment they sub-consciously make it happen.

That way they don't have to deal with the disappointment of not going home disappointed.

You need to go to more games. 90% of the fans have been incredibly supportive of the team, Stubbs and Dempster. Yet the focus is on the noisy few.

- we sing Stubbs name every week. He talks about the abusive minority instead

- we support LD at every meeting and shout down any hecklers. She comes on here to talk about the demotivating negativity of the fans

- we are supportive and positive about the HSL plan. The media is full of stuff about HoH and "hibs fans divided"

Then to cap it all our own supporters like you come on pretending we are all negative. It's you that's focusing on the negatives not (90% of) us.

[hfc rd]

He looked very p***** off with the booing.

[Alfred E Newman]

I think Stubbs would have been better just saying that he understood the fans frustration and left it at that. Carelessly conceding a late goal once again after playing a lot of good football and totally dominating a game for 90 mins, it was no surprise some people booed. I didn't boo but I was absolutely raging when I left the ground.

[lord bunberry]

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A bit harsh on Stubbsy, IMO.

Stubbs has got to take some of the blame, he's turned up with a name that doesnt fit well into songs

[WillowbraeHibby]

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I think Stubbs would have been better just saying that he understood the fans frustration and left it at that. Carelessly conceding a late goal once again after playing a lot of good football and totally dominating a game for 90 mins, it was no surprise some people booed. I didn't boo but I was absolutely raging when I left the ground.

.

Fair comment TBH.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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This coming from a stay away fan, very good.

What's your point, only people that go every week are allowed to be pissed off by it? Like I said earlier, plenty on the pitch to change this stay away fans habits, less on the pitch [edit: in the stands]. Just saying.

[FranckSuzy]

This is probably too simplistic but, what with AS saying dropping 2 points doesn't really matter (or something along these lines), maybe he is focusing on the improvement in performance/play and not solely on the win That's maybe why he can't fathom why some fans felt they should boo the team but, yes, the upturn in form is there for all to see but at this stage in the league, 3 points is all that really matters, IMHO.

[ahibby]

I didn't boo, but AS has missed the point. If we had won 1 0 there would have been no booing. People booed because despite dominating the game the team didn't have the character to see out the last five minutes. The substitutions did nothing for us and so we should wonder why those particular substitutions were made. DH was not better to SR and McGeough of for Martin, probably weakened us. The booing I'm sure was because we dominated but didn't have the character or the savvy to see out the last five or ten minutes. Wrong decisions on and off the park for me yesterday.

[hibs0666]

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I didn't boo, but AS has missed the point. If we had won 1 0 there would have been no booing. People booed because despite dominating the game the team didn't have the character to see out the last five minutes. The substitutions did nothing for us and so we should wonder why those particular substitutions were made. DH was not better to SR and McGeough of for Martin, probably weakened us. The booing I'm sure was because we dominated but didn't have the character or the savvy to see out the last five or ten minutes. Wrong decisions on and off the park for me yesterday.

Subs were made because players were injured. Stubbs has already said that.

There is a solid core of bams that spend the game displaying their total ignorance of what is happening on the park, and round off their day at the fitba with a round of booing if Hibs don't win. There has to be a change in culture on the terraces because, right now, we are certainly not all in this together.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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You need to go to more games. 90% of the fans have been incredibly supportive of the team, Stubbs and Dempster. Yet the focus is on the noisy few.

- we sing Stubbs name every week. He talks about the abusive minority instead

- we support LD at every meeting and shout down any hecklers. She comes on here to talk about the demotivating negativity of the fans

- we are supportive and positive about the HSL plan. The media is full of stuff about HoH and "hibs fans divided"

Then to cap it all our own supporters like you come on pretending we are all negative. It's you that's focusing on the negatives not (90% of) us.

Where does the 90% figure come from mate. Is that 90% of the people that go to the game, or 90% of the people around you? Just asking, because the boos yesterday were from more than 10% of fans in the ground.

See 90% of the people around me didn't sing Stubbs's name,for example. I looked along the stand and could see that over 90% of the people in the top section were standing - but nobody was standing around me. In fact 100% of the people in one section of the ground was playing a drum - albeit that section consisted of one seat.

You see where I'm coming from? 90% of the fans that sing songs back the team 100% - but they are only something like 10% of the entire support. Maybe if consider what goes on in the whole stadium, you'll see that I'm not pretending anything, I'm merely feeding back my observations.

I don't want the fans to be negative - so what would be in it for me to pretend to have a negative opinion of them?

Negativity wise, I haven't actually done a poll of how fans think. I came to the ground yesterday to watch the team, and I will be back again. I did pick up on a willingness to criticise the players when things went wrong, and less willingness to praise them when they did well.

Objective observation from one fan, that's all it is though. But when the boss asks what is going on, it's maybe time for people to step back and try to be objective themselves. I'm not pretending everything, I'm reporting on what I saw - just like you are reporting what you see. Two people can look at the same thing, and see something different. Neither is right.

To be clear. I am responding to a thread which asks why Stubbs has a right to criticise the supporters. I haven't been going to many games, and I pitch up at ER, ready to take an objective look at the game. I see Hibs doing pretty much everything right on the pitch, and yet the majority of what I hear around me is negative.

I have not asked why supporters are doing this - I know that things have been bad in the last few years. I get it.

It so happens though, that I don't like going to games when the fans are on the players' backs unfairly. I've never seen the sense of booing your own team, and (personally) I think that people that do it are acting in a petulant and childish way - so be it, that's why they pay their money.

I don't want to spend £22 to sit in a negative atmosphere. I don't think I'm that unusual. I think it puts a lot of people off going.

This is not a judgement, this is an opinion. One that may have some validity in the debate about why people stay away, and why the atmosphere remains negative.



As far as speaking to people about what they are doing goes -what would be the point? As people would quite rightly say "wtf do you think we are, we pay our money, if you don't like it stay away". We're talking about telling people they sound a bit pathetic, it's hardly like challenging racism.

Still, "four legs good, two legs bad" - as they used to bleat in unison at Tynecastle.

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Stubbs has got to take some of the blame, he's turned up with a name that doesnt fit well into songs

I know five year olds that have been to more Hibs games than him, who does he think he is criticising the supporters when he's just been in the door five minutes anyway - man's nothing more than a fanny?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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This is probably too simplistic but, what with AS saying dropping 2 points doesn't really matter (or something along these lines), maybe he is focusing on the improvement in performance/play and not solely on the win That's maybe why he can't fathom why some fans felt they should boo the team but, yes, the upturn in form is there for all to see but at this stage in the league, 3 points is all that really matters, IMHO.

I see an improving team and more positives about yesterday than negatives. It was disapointing not to win, but if folks are honest it was obvious after an hour it wasn't our day in front of goals.

It may be hard to do when things have been bad for so long, but it seems to me that people need to think about how far we have come - at this point; not how far we have to go.

[theonlywayisup]

It is only natural that people get annoyed when we lose a last minute equaliser. It happens all over the world. We all get angry to varying degrees. It happens to us all.

However, there are some that just need to chill. Take it easy, it's only a game of football.

One guy beside me was bellowing "Liam Craig, I f@@@@@g hate you" at the end of the game. In the family stand!!! I could have got into an argument with him, but I just looked at him and said to myself "chill man, take it easy".

[silverhibee]

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What's your point, only people that go every week are allowed to be pissed off by it? Like I said earlier, plenty on the pitch to change this stay away fans habits, less on the pitch. Just saying.

You have only been to a couple of games, sure that's what you said, how do you no that in the other games you missed that everyone around you were acting like fannies (you really like putting Hibs fans down don't you) they may have been backing the team, the games that i have been at this season home and away the fans around me have been great with there backing of the team on the pitch, you get the odd silly shout but that has been happening at ER since i started going to watch them, you have watched Hibs for a good long time, was it all nicey nicey back then, fans have always moaned at football games, you should no that, but hey ho they're a bunch of fannies if you say so.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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It is only natural that people get annoyed when we lose a last minute equaliser. It happens all over the world. We all get angry to varying degrees. It happens to us all.

However, there are some that just need to chill. Take it easy, it's only a game of football.

One guy beside me was bellowing "Liam Craig, I f@@@@@g hate you" at the end of the game. In the family stand!!! I could have got into an argument with him, but I just looked at him and said to myself "chill man, take it easy".

The way I see it, some supporters no ***** all about football. Somebody tells them that player X is great (say Ivan Sproule) and that player never gets any abuse no matter how shan he plays. Somebody tells them that player Y is crap - result player Y is at fault for everything.

By scanning the updates about which players are awful and which players are legends, the fan who knows nothing, can still sound like he knows his stuff. Except when the updates are out of date - then the close observer can detect that the fan in question knows diddly squat.

It would be gentlemanly to point this out to the fan in question, in person - however this does bring its own problems. Best to wait for him to get the updates, rather than upset him with information he will fail to retain anyway.

[ronaldo7]

I just wish AS would get the guys to work as a team and not individuals, especially when they get in on goal. The amount of times I've seen players go for goal when their TEAM MATE was in a better position with the goal at their mercy is frightening.

Square ball played into their team mate in the last few games would have had us with more points in the bag.

Come on guys, you know it makes sense.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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You have only been to a couple of games, sure that's what you said, how do you no that in the other games you missed that everyone around you were acting like fannies ⁽¹⁾(you really like putting Hibs fans down don't you)⁽²⁾ they may have been backing the team, the games that i have been at this season home and away the fans around me have been great with there backing of the team on the pitch ⁽³⁾, you get the odd silly shout but that has been happening at ER since i started going to watch them, you have watched Hibs for a good long time, was it all nicey nicey back then, fans have always moaned at football games ⁽⁴⁾, you should no that ⁽⁵⁾, but hey ho they're a bunch of fannies if you say so ⁽⁶⁾.

Alright SH, as always it's what you heard and saw that is real - everything else in the world is just a drug induced illusion. Let's deconstruct your post.

1) I can only comment on the games I have been at.
2) I like putting everyone down - Hibs fans or otherwise - it's what I'm good at.
3) Good for you - it wasn't like that yesterday though.
4) No, it's always been like that, there's always been petulant fannies.
5) See (4).
6) Thanks.

Feeling the love - have a nice day.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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The way I see it, some supporters no ***** all about football. Somebody tells them that player X is great (say Ivan Sproule) and that player never gets any abuse no matter how shan he plays. Somebody tells them that player Y is crap - result player Y is at fault for everything.

By scanning the updates about which players are awful and which players are legends, the fan who knows nothing, can still sound like he knows his stuff. Except when the updates are out of date - then the close observer can detect that the fan in question knows diddly squat.

It would be gentlemanly to point this out to the fan in question, in person - however this does bring its own problems. Best to wait for him to get the updates, rather than upset him with information he will fail to retain anyway.

Spot on - exactly as I see it.

That's why the same quotes get posted about Allan every week no matter what - "best player in the legur by a mile", "pleasure to watch", "wonderful", "superb" etc etc.

As for Craig some guys in the F5 were waiting on him doing something worthy of a mouthful.

Just depends on what someone's told them or read to them.

[macd123]

[QUOTE=Phil D. Rolls;4290385]To be clear. I am responding to a thread which asks why Stubbs has a right to criticise the supporters. I haven't been going to many games, and I pitch up at ER, ready to take an objective look at the game. I see Hibs doing pretty much everything right on the pitch, and yet the majority of what I hear around me is negative.

I have not asked why supporters are doing this - I know that things have been bad in the last few years. I get it.

It so happens though, that I don't like going to games when the fans are on the players' backs unfairly. I've never seen the sense of booing your own team, and (personally) I think that people that do it are acting in a petulant and childish way - so be it, that's why they pay their money.

I don't want to spend £22 to sit in a negative atmosphere. I don't think I'm that unusual. I think it puts a lot of people off going.

This is not a judgement, this is an opinion. One that may have some validity in the debate about why people stay away, and why the atmosphere remains negative.

I just don't think the majority are negative. Yes, if i had the choice i would remove 4 or 5 people within earshot of my seat. But it's a small minority - nowhere near a majority. Not even close.

[MB62]

A.S. is going to have to get used to this as part of being a football manager as this will happen time and again no matter where he is in charge, he just needs to ask the manager of his old club when they lost at home to Stoke and drew at home to Hull, there plenty home fans booing at the end of these games.
In over 50 years of supporting Hibernian, players, managers etc have changed but results like this have not, especially when there is some extra significance to the game, e.g. yesterday we could have moved to 2nd spot in the league if we had won so the result was even more disappointing.
Yes we should have won the game by a barrowload and Rovers goal should have been little consolation for them, but at 1-0 a game is never won and I thought we were a bit pedestrian for annoying periods, Scott Allan is one of the classiest players I have seen wearing a Hibs jersey but there are times when he is looking to play the killer ball and holds on to it a bit too long, rather than just play the simple pass (wide) and keep momentum moving.
This Hibs team is a work in progress and we are a million miles better than we were at this same stage last season, or even in the last few seasons, at times with, a lot of times, we are a joy to watch. However, that doesn't mean we should all be going away delighted at dropping 2 more home points, football is a game of emotion and passion and not all emotions are positive ones, as we all know having supported Hibs for however many years.
We are not going to win the league and it is now looking unlikely, or at least very difficult for us to finish 2nd, so it looks like 3rd or 4th is what we are aiming for, pleasing for Rod maybe as that will mean another home game and more income.
Basically, if you want to vent your frustration and Boo then on you go. I don't like hearing it, especially as I see the progress this team is making, but that's football and I equally don't like hearing the manager having a wee dash at the fans, you're at the start of what you will be hoping is a very long managerial career A.S. so you better get used to that sort of reaction.
As I type, I have just heard the Southampton fans booing as they have lost at home to Swansea, so it's not just Hibs fans who react like that.

[silverhibee]

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Alright SH, as always it's what you heard and saw that is real - everything else in the world is just a drug induced illusion. Let's deconstruct your post.

1) I can only comment on the games I have been at.
2) I like putting everyone down - Hibs fans or otherwise - it's what I'm good at.
3) Good for you - it wasn't like that yesterday though.
4) No, it's always been like that, there's always been petulant fannies.
5) See (4).
6) Thanks.

Feeling the love - have a nice day.

Your welcome.

[silverhibee]

WTF. Southampton fans booing at the end of there game, fannies.