Today's football

[Pete]

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Chelsea and Man City barely had a trophy between them prior to the Abramovich/Mansoor takeovers. Both had spent decades going up and down between promotion and relegation. City were even given a free stadium by the council, to replace a total dump.

There wasn’t that much of a difference between the Manchester clubs before the Premiership era.

It could be argued that United owe their fairly recent success to the piggybacking on Rupert Murdoch, Sky and the rampant commercialisation of our game.

Not only that, they used their money to bully and unsettle players from other clubs who simply couldn’t compete. Yorke, Keane, Ferdinand, Rooney, Young...not really that different to what City are doing today.

City are slick, quick and going places. United are a husk who’s fans can only hark back to days when they had a financial advantage.

[Pete]

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Maine Road had character, The Kippax stand was brilliant!

It also had the Gallagher brothers. United can have Morrisey or whoever

[Hibernia&Alba]

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There wasn’t that much of a difference between the Manchester clubs before the Premiership era.

It could be argued that United owe their fairly recent success to the piggybacking on Rupert Murdoch, Sky and the rampant commercialisation of our game.

Not only that, they used their money to bully and unsettle players from other clubs who simply couldn’t compete. Yorke, Keane, Ferdinand, Rooney, Young...not really that different to what City are doing today.

City are slick, quick and going places. United are a husk who’s fans can only hark back to days when they had a financial advantage.

Except United had numerous league titles, cups and had been European champions, plus they were already the biggest club in the country with the biggest crowds. What had City done exactly before the Premiership era?

City currently have five titles to their name, even with Mansoor money. United had reached that number in 1957, the season before the Munich disaster.

[Joe6-2]

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Sterling done about 10 step overs in the corner running down the clock and then Mata had a go at him for doing it, got right in his face and pointing and shouting at Sterling.

Thanks mate, they don't like it up em

[Pete]

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Except United had numerous league titles, cups and had been European champions, plus they were already the biggest club in the country with the biggest crowds. What had City done exactly before the Premiership era?

City currently have five titles to their name, even with Mansoor money. United had reached that number in 1957, the season before the Munich disaster.

United had won slightly more but the murdoch era saw them streak ahead.

Anyway, this is about the here and now. MOTD are crucifying United just now and it must be painful if you support them.

As a neutral observer, I just love great football. That was on show today.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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It also had the Gallagher brothers.

Stone Roses wannabes 😉

Both brothers have said many times how much of an influence the roses were and Liam’s swagger is clearly stolen from Ian Brown

[Hibernia&Alba]

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United had won slightly more but the murdoch era saw them streak ahead.

Anyway, this is about the here and now. MOTD are crucifying United just now and it must be painful if you support them.

As a neutral observer, I just love great football. That was on show today.

You're a neutral observer now?

You're City all the way, be honest.

[The 90+2]

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You're a neutral observer now?

You're City all the way, be honest.

He also loves Oasis more than the Roses 😀 City are fantastic though! You really can’t deny it. Peps the man and him and Lennon are good friends.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

https://youtu.be/AFaQQN6tL74

Charlie Austin meets Parklife.

[JimBHibees]

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De Gea would definitely get in both.

Not so sure based on recent form. His form has fallen off a cliff for months including World Cup.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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What success did Newcastle have in the 90's? I must have missed it.

The other difference is the success of Liverpool and (Everton who by the way were very successful in the 80's) was not due to the massive influx of new money on the scale of Chelsea and Man City. However the money is there and although on very different scales between many clubs it's not that much different to the likes of Liverpool and Utd whose success helped generate enormous amounts of cash which enabled them to thrive.

I have the happy memories they will do

Keegan, feedinand, ginola, asprilla, challenging in the league, european runs etc.

Im sure you know more than i do, but were everton in the 60s not bankrolled by the moores family (and nicknamed the bank of england club)?

There are very few clubs in the world that cab be successful without injections of cash.

I do agree that chelsea and city are very modern, extreme and to many, particularly vulgar examples, but all big english clubs are now banking on foreign sugar daddys, including liverpool.

Man City have still done it all in an admirable way.

Is it any difderent to leicester city? Or to umpteen of the big italian clubs in the 90s?

Tye English league is all about money, and one set of fans having a go at another for their spending, or the source of rheir cash just strikes me as a bit churlish.

If we could go back to the more equitable days, id be all for it, but English football clubs sold their souls a long time ago.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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Except United had numerous league titles, cups and had been European champions, plus they were already the biggest club in the country with the biggest crowds. What had City done exactly before the Premiership era?

City currently have five titles to their name, even with Mansoor money. United had reached that number in 1957, the season before the Munich disaster.

I never said city or chelsea were the eqyal of united, far from it. But neither were they livi or gretna.

I think chelsea and maybe even city had won leagues, cups and European trophy prior to their gilded era.

And city were always recognised as a very well suppprted club, it wss often a point of discussion when they were dpwn in 3rd tier that they still grew 30k crowds.

Anyway, i dont support anyone but hibs, bit i do enjoy english fitba, and i just think a lot of their critics from other equally rich clubs (utd have official noodle suppliers ffs!) Is jealousy.

Plus, lots of clubs spend lotd of money, not many play like city, who are exceptionally good (although id still habe the fergie team of the late 90s above them, bit maybe thats jusy my age).

[blackpoolhibs]

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They are great to watch, no question. However, anyone who says Man City are anything but lottery winners, in the same mould as Chelsea, are also deluding themselves. Both clubs were nothing prior to billionaire arrival, and it could just as easily be any other club. Even the most ardent Man City/Chelsea fan must admit that.

What difference does it make when they are handing out the trophies?

[Here’s Lucy!]

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What difference does it make when they are handing out the trophies?

Your point is a good one but, to the City and Chelsea fans who have followed them for years and years, through thick and thin, it must feel a wee bit empty.

I'm sure they both would have preferred to win the odd trophy or two with the likes of Bell, Summerbee, Lee, Marsh, Cooke, Osgood, Hudson and Bonetti than be buying cups and titles left, right and centre?

There again, I could be wrong

[blackpoolhibs]

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Your point is a good one but, to the City and Chelsea fans who have followed them for years and years, through thick and thin, it must feel a wee bit empty.

I'm sure they both would have preferred to win the odd trophy or two with the likes of Bell, Summerbee, Lee, Marsh, Cooke, Osgood, Hudson and Bonetti than be buying cups and titles left, right and centre?

There again, I could be wrong

Those days are long gone, and in 10-20-30 years, nobody will worry where the money comes from, Bell and Summerbee and the likes will be remembered alongside Silva, Company and Aguero.

[JimBHibees]

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Your point is a good one but, to the City and Chelsea fans who have followed them for years and years, through thick and thin, it must feel a wee bit empty.

I'm sure they both would have preferred to win the odd trophy or two with the likes of Bell, Summerbee, Lee, Marsh, Cooke, Osgood, Hudson and Bonetti than be buying cups and titles left, right and centre?

There again, I could be wrong

Cant believe for one minute it feels empty they will be loving it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Your point is a good one but, to the City and Chelsea fans who have followed them for years and years, through thick and thin, it must feel a wee bit empty.

I'm sure they both would have preferred to win the odd trophy or two with the likes of Bell, Summerbee, Lee, Marsh, Cooke, Osgood, Hudson and Bonetti than be buying cups and titles left, right and centre?



There again, I could be wrong

Maybe they see as a deserved reward for all those decades of rubbish football and relegations. It can’t have been easy shivering in United’s shadow.

It’s not my cup of tea tbh, especially given the shall we say shady origins of their money, and I’d much rather have Hibs ownership model with a growing HSL stake, but I wouldn’t say many city fans are too nostalgic for the old days. Those of a certain age maybe

[Haymaker]

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Cant believe for one minute it feels empty they will be loving it.

I know a few old school Chelsea fans and they are loving it. What really pisses them off is all the fans moaning when they draw 2-2 away at Swansea or don't qualify for Europe.

[Smartie]

I remember Chelsea and City being referred to as sleeping giants during the late 80s/ early 90s.

They were both big clubs with big supports, a decent history and a level of past success.

It's funny how they are now derided as only being big clubs because of money now that they are up there beating the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal, clubs who enjoyed a large financial advantage over them at that time.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Cant believe for one minute it feels empty they will be loving it.

Told this story before, but I have a friend of a friend in Manchester who gave up his Man City season ticket about two or three seasons ago now, after having it since 1990. He said he just doesn't recognise the club anymore and feels alienated from it. That must be a minority view, but fair play to guy, as it can't be easy to walk away when the good times arrive, after enduring so many bad times.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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What difference does it make when they are handing out the trophies?

It makes no difference to the feeling of winning trophies, but it's a lottery win which makes a massive difference in winning them. If Mansoor had bought Hibs, we'd be dominating Scottish football. Fair play to them, they can enjoy it, but it's a massive shortcut to success. £1.4 billion of somebody else's money in ten years buys you a fair few trophies. They aren't the first, and the petro-clubs are everywhere now - look at PSG, for example, a club that was only founded in 1971.

[hibsbollah]

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Cant believe for one minute it feels empty they will be loving it.

I'm not totally sure that's right. There is a chat that Man City fans are finding the tiki taka a bit boring. Which probably doesn't help the atmosphere. It probably also doesn't help that there are only a handful of clubs in the world that will actually have a go at Citeh and not just defend for 90 mins. So it's a bit like watching the school bully kick the wee boy from the year below in the playground.

And it IS definitely more satisfying to be a Leicester fan winning the league than a City fan. Because you haven't got all your mates going "aye but you just bought the league' 'where were you when you when you were ****' etc etc. It must be annoying.

There was a good chat about it on totally podcast yesterday. Rafael Honegstein said that Bayern fans were similar when Pep was there. Yes winning is great, but can we get the ball forward a bit quicker please?!

Spoilt bassas I say.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Told this story before, but I have a friend of a friend in Manchester who gave up his Man City season ticket about two or three seasons ago now, after having it since 1990. He said he just doesn't recognise the club anymore and feels alienated from it. That must be a minority view, but fair play to guy, as it can't be easy to walk away when the good times arrive, after enduring so many bad times.

Hmmmm!

I can empathise with that scenario to a degree.

I felt the same way when Joe Harper arrived and Gordon and ORourke went out.

Bye bye Tornadoes!

[hibsbollah]

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I know a few old school Chelsea fans and they are loving it. What really pisses them off is all the fans moaning when they draw 2-2 away at Swansea or don't qualify for Europe.

Personally I think Sarri ball is better to watch than Peps style. Chelsea are playing lovely stuff.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I'm not totally sure that's right. There is a chat that Man City fans are finding the tiki taka a bit boring. Which probably doesn't help the atmosphere. It probably also doesn't help that there are only a handful of clubs in the world that will actually have a go at Citeh and not just defend for 90 mins. So it's a bit like watching the school bully kick the wee boy from the year below in the playground.

And it IS definitely more satisfying to be a Leicester fan winning the league than a City fan. Because you haven't got all your mates going "aye but you just bought the league' 'where were you when you when you were ****' etc etc. It must be annoying.

There was a good chat about it on totally podcast yesterday. Rafael Honegstein said that Bayern fans were similar when Pep was there. Yes winning is great, but can we get the ball forward a bit quicker please?!

Spoilt bassas I say.

I would make them have Terry Butcher as manager for one season!

Listen, I wouldn't be complaining if a billionaire pulled up at Easter Road in his Bugatti and started throwing fifty quid notes out of a briefcase; but let's be honest about where the subsequent success came from. I suppose that's the way football has gone, in order to compete at the highest level.

And what happens if/when they money tap is switched off e.g. Leeds, Blackburn,The Rangers, our pink chums in Gorgie? Chelsea and Man City's wealth is of a much higher level, but that also means any crash will also be of a greater magnitude.

[hibsbollah]

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I would make them have Terry Butcher as manager for one season!

Listen, I wouldn't be complaining if a billionaire pulled up at Easter Road in his Bugatti and started throwing fifty quid notes out of a briefcase; but let's be honest about where the subsequent success came from. I suppose that's the way football has gone, in order to compete at the highest level.

And what happens if/when they money tap is switched off e.g. Leeds, Blackburn,The Rangers, our pink chums in Gorgie? Chelsea and Man City's wealth is of a much higher level, but that also means any crash will also be of a greater magnitude.

Re the Bugatti man driving up, of course we would all love it. But it's also naive to imagine that scenario wouldn't change and commodify/cheapen the experience of being a fan.

[One Day Soon]

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I would make them have Terry Butcher as manager for one season!

Listen, I wouldn't be complaining if a billionaire pulled up at Easter Road in his Bugatti and started throwing fifty quid notes out of a briefcase; but let's be honest about where the subsequent success came from. I suppose that's the way football has gone, in order to compete at the highest level.

And what happens if/when they money tap is switched off e.g. Leeds, Blackburn,The Rangers, our pink chums in Gorgie? Chelsea and Man City's wealth is of a much higher level, but that also means any crash will also be of a greater magnitude.

I'm just not sure about that, the eternal difficult struggle is half the experience I think. I can't imagine being like a Celtc fan greeting cup after league after cup with dulled overfed senses if we were somehow awash with funny money. I always wonder about the clubs that are transformed out of all recognition - especially with stadium moves - and whether it really feels like the same part of their lives that it used to be for the supporters. I don't think I could put a price, for example, on how important it was to stay at Easter Road.

I suppose it must be possible to have a happy medium but I'd hate for Hibs to be at either the whim of a massively wealthy owner or having to face a huge crash from heady heights if the owner lost interest/never had it in the first place (Newcastle style) or was suddenly lost (Leicester style), or the money ran out (Leeds style). At least with Tom Farmer we've had someone consistent and steady, clearly committed to the long term future of the club and willing to do what was needed to provide a rock solid base for the future - including enabling a blocking minority fan shareholding. We'll certainly be transformed out of all recognition at the end of his tenure, compared to the start, in infrastructure and financial stability terms.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I'm just not sure about that, the eternal difficult struggle is half the experience I think. I can't imagine being like a Celtc fan greeting cup after league after cup with dulled overfed senses if we were somehow awash with funny money. I always wonder about the clubs that are transformed out of all recognition - especially with stadium moves - and whether it really feels like the same part of their lives that it used to be for the supporters. I don't think I could put a price, for example, on how important it was to stay at Easter Road.

I suppose it must be possible to have a happy medium but I'd hate for Hibs to be at either the whim of a massively wealthy owner or having to face a huge crash from heady heights if the owner lost interest/never had it in the first place (Newcastle style) or was suddenly lost (Leicester style), or the money ran out (Leeds style). At least with Tom Farmer we've had someone consistent and steady, clearly committed to the long term future of the club and willing to do what was needed to provide a rock solid base for the future - including enabling a blocking minority fan shareholding. We'll certainly be transformed out of all recognition at the end of his tenure, compared to the start, in infrastructure and financial stability terms.

But whit aboot titles and playing Champions League? We'd all love that for a wee while, even if we felt a tad dirty. I admit I would love to experience all of that, but there is risk, no question, ethically and financially. This is played as the teams walk out at Emptihad and Stamford Wigs

[blackpoolhibs]

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It makes no difference to the feeling of winning trophies, but it's a lottery win which makes a massive difference in winning them. If Mansoor had bought Hibs, we'd be dominating Scottish football. Fair play to them, they can enjoy it, but it's a massive shortcut to success. £1.4 billion of somebody else's money in ten years buys you a fair few trophies. They aren't the first, and the petro-clubs are everywhere now - look at PSG, for example, a club that was only founded in 1971.

So basically to keep the old school happy, everyone but the selected few who are established clubs with history and tradition, should just know their place and play accordingly?

[One Day Soon]

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But whit aboot titles and playing Champions League? We'd all love that for a wee while, even if we felt a tad dirty. I admit I would love to experience all of that, but there is risk, no question, ethically and financially. This is played as the teams walk out at Emptihad and Stamford Wigs

Champions League? Come on be serious, we'll never be Hearts...