AGM - 28th January 2015 (Updates and Report) - Merged

[Bill Milne]

The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).

[marinello59]

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The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).

But if that article is true HSA have already agreed to throw their hat in to the ring with HoH.

[Bill Milne]

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But if that article is true HSA have already agreed to throw their hat in to the ring with HoH.

That can't be true as Mike and his committee have no mandate from the branches to support anyone. My view is that Mike has expressed a personal opinion which has been seized upon by the media to imply Association support overall.

[Bostonhibby]

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The Association is having a meeting on Wednesday 4th Feb, to which representatives of branches have been invited. I will be there on behalf of my branch (Edinburgh West).

Bill, have you been asked to poll your members to see if they support any plans or groups?

[Bill Milne]

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Bill, have you been asked to poll your members to see if they support any plans or groups?

Not in so many words. I will be speaking to as many West members as I can on Saturday to guage opinion and will reflect that at the meeting on Wednesday. I have to say that no attempt has been made so far by the committee to influence me in any way up to now.

[Caversham Green]

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Of course Farmer created HSL. Maybe not legally and technically but it was his choice and his choice only to give his 45% shares away (which is why I don't understand HOHs silly theories) and he was not going to give them to any old Tom, Dick and Harry.

It was his choice to give Dempster the permission to do something with his shares so in theory your right he never created HSL but he did if that makes sense.

Anyway its late now. I am glad there is some decent debate here rather than putting up posters.

Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

[Ronniekirk]

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Same here. How do they consult anyone they claim to speak for? Assuming the article is actually true.

In that case it begs the question do they even have a mandate now to continue to claim they are representing the fans .i think if they called for a rally outside Easter road now there would not be anything like the support they claim and they would be discredited ,but I expect they know that and that's why they won't do that

If they are to meet to continue thier campaign then this will only continue to serve to foster bad feeling towards them from the majority of the support who I think are now wanting to move forward and highlight the positives .

Maybe at the game on Saturday there needs to be some vocal show of strength by the support letting it be know we don't support them

A chant of Back the Board repeated loudly would be a start .

should the two newly elected Fans Reps insist they are invited along to any meeting to hear what is being said

It seems a minority are now being given disproportionate media exposures which is negatively impacting on the clubs image at at time Thete is so much to talk up .

Or do we just sit back and hope they collectively decide they don't have the support they thought and chuck it .However it seems to me there are too many of them with thier own agendas and ego s so that's unlikely to happen .

Interested to hear others views as to how we start to have some organised opposition to this lot or whether that would be counter productive at this time and backing and buying shares is best way of showing support .

[madhatter]

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Apologies if already posted.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...plan-1-3673347

"The groups contend that the debt has been built up through mismanagement at boardroom level and that fans should not have to pay back the money to Farmer, a multi-millionaire."

As written in that article, much of it is a bit embarrassing. Debt acquisition is not as black and white as how some fans seem to understand it. Would we have won the league cup in 2007 if money hadn't been spent that we couldn't afford? What were we paying Jones, Murphy, Benji and Zemmama? Could we have a new stadium (stands) and training facility without spending money we didn't have?

In addition, could we do all these with quite clear declining active supporters (obviously decreasing club income)? Some of these non-active fans are likely to be behind fan groups that are spouting this (why do we have debt = board; do I attend games = no; do I want the club to have £10 million worth of debt owed to bank with interest or £5 million worth of debt to Farmer (of which is interest free) = £10 million to bank with interest please.

Some water and an altercation in a bath comes to mind as well as 'look at me'.

As far as I'm concerned we need to put our money where our mouths are because we will not get club for free and the survey said 'fan ownership'. Fan ownership comes at a cost. Simple as. Ownership by definition is linked to acquisition and that by definition is regularly linked to deals made with monies.

[oldbutdim]

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"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

I don't know anything about a Shareholder Association........


Can anyone point me at a source for info on this please?

[CallumLaidlaw]

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I don't know anything about a Shareholder Association........


Can anyone point me at a source for info on this please?

probably 1 shareholder, asked by HoH to start an Association so they can claim another supporters group are against it

[scottish_sleepy]

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The way we're going I don't think it is.

Are there any clubs you think we would lose against over 2 legs?

Who?

I'd be more worried about playing Falkirk than The Rangers.
Not got a fantastic record against then lately.

[hibbybob]

There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

[marinello59]

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There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

Weren't the majority of shareholders at the AGM anyway?

[hibbybob]

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Weren't the majority of shareholders at the AGM anyway?

I'd imagine so. Certainly everybody I was with on Wednesday was a member when it was active.

[villager]

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Yip. Few things starting to bother me about this whole episode.

Hibs share issue is just an initiative that might/not succeed. If it fails, then worst that's happened is STF/RP's influence has been diluted and passed to Hibs fans. In anyone's books, that's no bad thing. If it works, then we're all happier. It does not prevent anyone coming forward at any stage with a decent proposal and buying the club if they don't like what's happening and/or think they can do better.

There's no place for abuse or intimidation. If HOH and others can't control themselves then they'll simply lose credibility and support - already happening. In saying that, delighted to see the Board, CEO and owner properly challenged and questioned at every turn. There's been far too little accountability at Hibs over the last few years, with those responsible hiding or ignoring criticism. We all think the team and club have been far too soft in recent years. Well, IMO, so have the fans. If STF is getting a bit ticked off with criticism and coming out fighting then that's ok by me. At least we're seeing some sort of reaction, passion and emotion from our owner after all these years.

Hibs are in a battle of wills with fan groups because there's an important share issue on the go. IMO until the new Directors and share issue is up an running, HOH, BuyHibs, Pia and Kane can still play an important role in keeping Hibs honest and making sure we get the best result possible, but they need to change tack. The game has changed and so must their role/approach.

Those calling for these groups to wind-up or **** off are missing a trick or have short memories. It's as if all our past problems are over and our future success is assured. IMO all it would take is a bad set of results/luck or poor start to next season to see these same people start to vent and ask the same old questions we've been asking over the last few years. FeelGood is back and things on the park definitely looking up but we're still in a fragile/precarious state.

Agreed 100%

[jacomo]

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Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

[Bad Martini]

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Farmer has not created any shares, he is not giving any shares away (he doesn't actually own any shares in the club) and is unlikely ever to own the new shares that will be 'created' as and when people buy them. He has absolutely no interest in or control over HSL, nor has he given Dempster permission to do anything with his shares (which he doesn't own anyway).

When I buy shares I will be giving a sum of money to the club in exchange for a share of the club's assets. Those assets will immediately have been increased by the amount of money I have given to the club. The more people do this the less control Farmer will retain.

Stoap it! Stoap it now ye here!

Such talk is NOT conducive to helping unfounded, stupid and frankly largely embarassing and illogical rumours and suggestions to keep going around and around and around around...

I MUCH prefer to imagine that an ageing man of seventy plus years, with a long standing reputation for being honest, charitable and generally one of the "good guys" is up to something. His bank balance needs furthered somewhat and he clearly needs and wants the very public hassle this would bring......after all, you dont need Vulcan logic to understand this surely???

I wonder what some of his detractors have invested in Hibs over the last 20 odd years?
Actions speak louder than words and money talks. <<< This, an actual fact. In the "real" world...

Ach, there's nae point. Am off to study 62 episodes of the XFiles and look for ways to find some kind of out of this world, undercover conspiracy that involves said radgeness on an epic scale....

[Bad Martini]

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With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

I thought we had all become qualified chartered accountants, actuarial geniuses and men of great thoughts, such are the detailed, accurate and fabulously well tuned posts I have read of late, outlining where our club/owner/someone is attempting to royally shaft us?

[schinkenotto]

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"The Hibernian Supporters Association, Shareholder Association, Former Players Association, BuyHibs and Hands On Hibs have all raised opposition to the scheme and they are expected to gather together next week to consider their next move."

I'm a member of 2 of these groups.

I wonder when they will contact their respective memberships to find out our views?

The quote is a typical Scotsman inaccuracy.Only BuyHibs and(of course!)HoH officially oppose.The "spokesmen" for the Shareholders Association and Supporters Association were expressing personal views for their own purposes and as for the Former Players Association,it was Paul Kane and he was once again speaking for himself or as part of the slanderous and virtually illegal harassment against STF.

God knows what these people think they're doing,but they do not speak for me and they will never be forgiven if their divisive malice causes STF to walk away(no reasonable person would blame him) or disrupt the long delayed,much needed but obvious progress at last being made.

Some of the views expressed by them demonstrate a frightening combination of personal spite and financial illiteracy.

[Bostonhibby]

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Not in so many words. I will be speaking to as many West members as I can on Saturday to guage opinion and will reflect that at the meeting on Wednesday. I have to say that no attempt has been made so far by the committee to influence me in any way up to now.

Cheers Bill - might not be an issue here - I am a St. Pat's member and the Branch Secretary informs me that the meeting mentioned was called the day after the AGM, at which only HSA officials and Branch Secretaries will attend, to discuss the AGM and HSL.

As an aside the following night Amit and Frank will be doing their first Q and A session together at St. Patrick's Branch meeting.

[madhatter]

You know what really gets me is after everything STF has done for us (granted mistakes did happen), and after the fact he has overseen a club close to extinction become a club with excellent facilities and platform to move forward (also now valued close to £19 million), and with STF's connections to charities (Farmer Foundation etc.), some people are suggesting that he is 'at it'.

Survey was done, we wanted (collectively) to venture down fan ownership and a 51% model is advantageous for all parties. We are being offered this.

Any of these people thought that the £2.5 million may be to push the club forward as a football organisation and that the £500k a year to holding company is much more manageable and affordable? If this scheme is successful, we move forward with fans and business people on board.

One question that I have never seen an answer to is: BuyHibs wanted pledges - what was the overall funding goal? What was the overall structure? Unknown as far as I'm aware.

HSL may (if we succeed) own the 51% but we will be shareholders of HSL would we not? Same model as BuyHibs, different source and different name.

[Bostonhibby]

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There was a Shareholders Association years ago - set up after the initial floatation. I don't think its been active since the early 90s.

I'm sure the Hootsmon will have tracked down the members and verified the accuracy of their information before going into print thus avoiding damaging the credibility of their article,..............oh wait a minute.

[Caversham Green]

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With the greatest respect, this sort of chat is just baffling to people who don't have a financial background.

Are you being serious here?

My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.

[CB_NO3]

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Are you being serious here?

My post was a response to what appears to be a profound misunderstanding of what is going on. The suggestion was that STF had created and now owns shares and was selling them off to a company set up (and by implication controlled) by him. That's wrong on all counts.

I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

They will still own the same number of shares.

It's their percentage holding that will be reduced by the issuing of new shares.

[PatHead]

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I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

Nowhere, as the new issue of shares dilutes his holding. Imagine there were 100 shares and a further 100 shares are issued. The initial shares have effectively lost half their value but are still there in their entirety.

[hibs0666]

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I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares

[Caversham Green]

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I am not having at a dig at STF. Actually its the opposite. Farmer owned 90% of Hibs through his holding company. If this deal is concluded that holding company will only own 45% of Hibs. So where did the rest of that companies shares go?

The holding company will retain all the shares it currently owns, but the total number of shares will increase by whatever number of new shares are actually bought.

For example, if the total number of shares in existence was 100 and the holding company owned 90% it would hold 90 shares in total. If 100 new shares were issued and bought by HSL the holding company would still own 90 shares, but it would be 90 out of 200, which is 45%.

[CB_NO3]

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Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares

I have never once suggested Farmer is getting any money out of this and I would like Farmer to remain at Hibs, as who knows what could happen in a few years.

[Brightside]

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Be absolutely clear there's no money going to Farmer from this share issue. This is new money coming into the club. The money is not being used to buy any of Farmer's shares

and thats what the clowns at HoH dont get. He;s giving away half the club for NOTHING... that 2.5m goes back to the CEO to invest in the football team. How on earth does that turn into STF trying to screw over the fans?