Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[JeMeSouviens]

Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ...

WARNING Walter Smith says Dave King needs to gamble by putting Rangers into debt or they WON’T stop Celtic winning 10 in a row
The Ibrox legend insists the gap between the Old Firm clubs is much bigger than it was during his nine in a row reign


BY ROBERT COLLINS

WALTER SMITH reckons Dave King must risk putting Rangers into debt or they WON’T stop Celtic winning 10 in a row.

The Ibrox legend insists the gap between the Old Firm clubs is much bigger than it was during his nine in a row reign and has called on the Gers chairman to splash the cash.

Former Light Blues boss Smith wants to see Mark Warburton handed a war chest to allow the Govan club to compete with Brendan Rodgers’ side.

He told Record Sport: ”For Rangers to get access to Champions League money they may have to take a gamble and risk going into debt.

“Even allowing for Celtic’s circumstances in the early 90’s they still had some good players. They still had a decent enough team.

“I think the gap is bigger now than it was in those early stages. And some of the other Scottish teams – Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United – were far better then than they are at the moment.

“You can print this, it is an easy headline to say Celtic will go on to win ten in a row. But it is difficult to keep that level of success in any football club, so who can say?

“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

“Celtic have done that and their successes are outweighing their failures.

“The problem at Rangers is, you’ve got to do it. It’s the same if you’re a manager or a board member, you’ve got to find a way to win.

“A couple of the people who are there at the moment have been involved in the board at Rangers previously so they should know what it takes to make Rangers successful. So that’s what they have to aim for and I’m sure they are doing that.”

Smith praised the Rangers support for sticking by their side during the time in the lower leagues.

He insists they deserve a winning team but is concerned that if Celtic continue to dominate supporters will be driven away.

The former Scotland boss said: “You don’t get a lot of time. The thing that bothers me is, with not having a lot of time, the longer it goes on is the biggest aspect becomes the deterioration of the support.

“The Rangers support has been nothing short of phenomenal over the period of them being in the lower leagues.

“But now that they are back and their biggest rivals are in such a strong position, it’s hard for everybody at Rangers to take. But the manager needs to find a way to win and the board have to find a way of getting Rangers back into that position.

“It’s not going to be easy. I don’t envy any of them the task at the present moment.

”Historically, Rangers are a winning team. The support expects it. If you are the manager then you have to find a way of getting there.

“The board will know they need a level of investment in the team. Print this please, it’s not a criticism. I know the problems they have, everybody knows the problems.

“But I keep hearing all the time that Rangers problems were because of debt. The strange thing is Rangers didn’t have any debt when the problems started.

“They need investment in the team just now. It doesn’t matter what anyone says and the board has to find a way of doing that.

“They have shown they have enough to finish second in the league this season. Whether they do or not is another thing.

“But will the Rangers support accept another year like that?”

[Bostonhibby]

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Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ...

Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.

[BH Hibs]

It's just no fair boo hoo hoo.

[Ozyhibby]

I wonder if 'find a way' means set up an illegal tax evasion scheme and mislead the SFA on the level of player remuneration?


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[southsider]

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Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.

Overspend ? Borrow money ? Isn't that not how they were liquidated in the first place. What a stupid man. I hope they overspend and go bust again but nobody in their right mind will lend them money.

[Haymaker]

Basically called the Orc hordes what they are: Glory hunters!

[Kato]

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It's just no fair boo hoo hoo.

Snowflake Huns

[Onion]

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Overspend ? Borrow money ? Isn't that not how they were liquidated in the first place. What a stupid man. I hope they overspend and go bust again but nobody in their right mind will lend them money.

Don't know where to start with that interview and WS comments. As you say, what an incredibly stupid, arrogant and deluded man who would quite happily rip off the tax man, businesses and other clubs in his effort to stop Celtic from winning a few league titles. As a manager, always had a bit of time for Smith. But as a man and Rangers fan, he's an idiot who should not be allowed near a microphone or a journalist.

[Sprouleflyer]

“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

What if the gamble fails Watty, what then?

How does this old relic of Scottish football get so much column inches, especially when he benefitted from buying players using money that was borrowed on the never never.

Seems like the old Sevconians want to go back to the good old days by using methods from the bad old ways.

[hibs0666]

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“All you can say from a Rangers perspective, is everyone involved with the club knows what they have to do to get there. Everybody can make all the noises they want about being sensible but it boils down to being prepared to take that gamble.

What if the gamble fails Watty, what then?

How does this old relic of Scottish football get so much column inches, especially when he benefitted from buying players using money that was borrowed on the never never.

Seems like the old Sevconians want to go back to the good old days by using methods from the bad old ways.

No problem. If the club wants to speculate then that should be funded by shareholders and supporters. I'm sure that Dodgy Dave is just itching to open up the wallet.

[Smartie]

It would be great for The Rangers' rivals if they went back to borrowing wildly as it can only end badly.

The best thing they can do is shut up and get on with re-building, improving year on year and pressing home the financial advantage they already have over most clubs in Scotland, then challenging Celtic when they're ready.

[northstandhibby]

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Aye but maybe fast track entry into the lodge of his choice and the chance to play for a club with the rangers "traditions" will be more important to the player.

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This is how their hun twisted minds work.

Smith is a bitter hun filled with hun arrogance. In his mind the huns should be lording it over the rest of us and falling at their feet.

He clearly misses the tax dodging years with Murray pulling the strings and money was like confetti to them which bought them their ill gotten trophies.

Smith your old club died. You and Murray made it die. Get it over it you pathetic twisted swine.

Glory Glory

[Bostonhibby]

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This is how their hun twisted minds work.

Smith is a bitter hun filled with hun arrogance. In his mind the huns should be lording it over the rest of us and falling at their feet.

He clearly misses the tax dodging years with Murray pulling the strings and money was like confetti to them which bought them their ill gotten trophies.

Smith your old club died. You and Murray made it die. Get it over it you pathetic twisted swine.

Glory Glory

You have a problem with Scottish football's elder statesman I take it?



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[Deansy]

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Walter Smith's interview (it's in the Sun, so I've cut'n'pasted it over from Kerrydale St).

Feel the desperation ...

I don't understand - during Waldo's time (and all the others involved during Murray's term) we were consistently told -

'As soon as the player heard it was Rangers, money wasn't really a factor - the chance for playing for one of the world's biggest clubs was all the incentive needed'

It was either that or it was -

'He supported Rangers as a boy'

Baffling

[Bostonhibby]

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I don't understand - during Waldo's time (and all the others involved during Murray's term) we were consistently told -

'As soon as the player heard it was Rangers, money wasn't really a factor - the chance for playing for one of the world's biggest clubs was all the incentive needed'

It was either that or it was -

'He supported Rangers as a boy'

Baffling

Is this how they got senderos Barton krancjaer tavernier and Tiernan?

Long may they continue to be misty eyed and misguided about that era.

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[Ozyhibby]

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It would be great for The Rangers' rivals if they went back to borrowing wildly as it can only end badly.

The best thing they can do is shut up and get on with re-building, improving year on year and pressing home the financial advantage they already have over most clubs in Scotland, then challenging Celtic when they're ready.

Their overheads are such that at their current turnover, without borrowing they would not have much of an advantage over Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs.


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[Bostonhibby]

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Their overheads are such that at their current turnover, without borrowing they would not have much of an advantage over Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs.


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And that's before dodgy Dave claws back his previous losses!

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[ballengeich]

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Stoke make a bid in the region of £20 million for Berahino

Real money

The Rangers' £500,000 for him wasn't a transfer fee. It would be a development fee which is much lower for a cross-border move than for a switch of club within England. The idea was that they sign him on a pre-contract and pay a development fee when he joins at the end of this season In January 2018 they'd transfer him on to an English club for a pre-arranged fee (say £10 million to Stoke). The Rangers make a profit and the English club gets him cheaper while West Brom lose out.

A cunning plan, relying mainly on Berahino being a spiteful wee toerag more motivated by getting it right up West Brom than by developing his own career.

The plan's a larger scale version of what they did to Accrington Stanley over Crooks and Windass where the expected profit hasn't materialised yet.

[silverhibee]

Grandpa Walt is just a bitter Hun, he is fuming when giving this interview but has wry wee smile when he talks about a team being relegated.

Is the last bit about teams suffering and getting relegated a wee dig at Hibs and Mr Petrie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36025815

[ballengeich]

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Interesting to see the like of Walter resurfacing, they didn't half disappear quickly from the board when it became apparent that the flush wasn't working and the smelly stuff was about to hit the fan.

It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

[jacomo]

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No problem. If the club wants to speculate then that should be funded by shareholders and supporters. I'm sure that Dodgy Dave is just itching to open up the wallet.

The promised over investment!

£30m wasn't it? What could possibly be stopping King from sticking to his word?

[jacomo]

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It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

Just for fun, here's some of Dave Kings statement in Feb 2014, printed in full in the DR. He committed himself to spending £30-50m at that time:

Statement by Dave King on Rangers FC

Because of my ongoing interest in the future direction of the club I have deliberately avoided immersing myself in the day-to-day “noise level” that is being played out in the media. By doing this I had hoped to serve as a bridge between non-aligned stakeholders and the club, as well as seeking a way forward that could accommodate all interests. I no longer believe that I can achieve this with the board that is presently in place. I consequently wish to update the fans on my current position.


Late last year I travelled to Scotland in an attempt to find a way forward that would accommodate all parties and ensure sound corporate governance and sound financial planning for the club. Unfortunately, my efforts were in vain. During this period I made it clear to the board that I am a potential source of funding by way of a new capital injection. My prime condition is that any funds introduced by me would go into the club for the benefit of the team and the dilapidating infrastructure.

For the avoidance of doubt, I appreciate that the Rangers board has no obligation to engage with me or to agree with my vision for the future of Rangers. My assessment is that the business is not commercially sustainable in the short term and hence requires a level of soft investment. The board is focusing on right-sizing the business ie. cutting costs to match the income. It is correct that any club must, over the long term, operate within its means but in the short term Rangers needs a significant once-off financial boost that cannot be met from the current revenue stream. Without this we will not get back to where we should be. If we cut our costs to suit our present income we will remain a small club and Celtic will shoot through 10 in a row - and beyond - while we slug it out for the minor places. That is not the Rangers that I grew up with and not the Rangers that we should be passing down to our children and grandchildren.

It goes on like this, and then he advises supporters not to give their ST money to Sevco directly but pay it into a trust.

[Oscar T Grouch]

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Grandpa Walt is just a bitter Hun, he is fuming when giving this interview but has wry wee smile when he talks about a team being relegated.

Is the last bit about teams suffering and getting relegated a wee dig at Hibs and Mr Petrie.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36025815

Aw bodies fault but theirs. The only bitterness the Huns should feel is against the idiots that ran their club into the ground while screwing tax payers and small businesses. But aye it looks like a badly veiled dig at Hibs.

[Bostonhibby]

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The Rangers' £500,000 for him wasn't a transfer fee. It would be a development fee which is much lower for a cross-border move than for a switch of club within England. The idea was that they sign him on a pre-contract and pay a development fee when he joins at the end of this season In January 2018 they'd transfer him on to an English club for a pre-arranged fee (say £10 million to Stoke). The Rangers make a profit and the English club gets him cheaper while West Brom lose out.

A cunning plan, relying mainly on Berahino being a spiteful wee toerag more motivated by getting it right up West Brom than by developing his own career.

The plan's a larger scale version of what they did to Accrington Stanley over Crooks and Windass where the expected profit hasn't materialised yet.

So, the rangers class then

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[southsider]

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Aw bodies fault but theirs. The only bitterness the Huns should feel is against the idiots that ran their club into the ground while screwing tax payers and small businesses. But aye it looks like a badly veiled dig at Hibs.

Who cares as we won the Scottish Cup whilst they were liquidated and had to start again. What part of that does Smith not understand ? If I had my way they would not have been allowed back in the league until ALL debts were repaid.

[Bostonhibby]

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It follows a Keith Jackson article in yesterday's Record urging King to make money available. I suspect there's some conflict in the Ibrox boardroom and someone's leaking stories - what a shame.

Even my goldfish is now accepting there's no dodgy Dave warchest or even spare change coming in and the fish used to be convinced Craig whyte and cheeky Charlie Green were the answer because the daily record said they had untold riches.

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[southsider]

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Even my goldfish is now accepting there's no dodgy Dave warchest or even spare change coming in and the fish used to be convinced Craig whyte and cheeky Charlie Green were the answer because the daily record said they had untold riches.

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Wow a goldfish that can read. Can he/she tell me the lotto numbers for Saturday ? Promise to buy Leigh.

[Bostonhibby]

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Wow a goldfish that can read. Can he/she tell me the lotto numbers for Saturday ? Promise to buy Leigh.

Sorry but the fish has just taken up an editorial job with the Evening news so you will appreciate it can't possibly do anything that might be construed as helpful to a hibby.

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[Ozyhibby]

I think what is happening is that they are realising that they will never rival Celtic again. The gap is too big and its structural.
Even once the retail deal ends in 6 years they won't even be close to matching Celtics income. And if there are to be 6 mores years of Celtic winning everything in sight then crowds at Ibrox will be back down to 80's levels.
They needs a massive investment of free cash over a sustained period of time to try and bridge the gap. I just don't see where it's coming from.


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[Oscar T Grouch]

One thing watty got right in that article is the orc hoards won't have the patience to hang around under celtc for years to come, their STs will fall away as celtc get closer to 10 in a row. I have vague memories of the 80s before Souness came in when their crowds were pitiful. No investor with half a brain will put money into the Huns as they'll have no chance of getting a return. They have no credit facilities as such so unless King or Watty himself are willing to chuck millions into them I can't see money being spent in any great amount.