England Semi

[Chic Murray]

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Scotland will always be England's rival

The other way round.

Anyway rivalry can't be the right word, as that would involve competition. More like jealousy, or insecurity that wee Scotland will be forgotten.

Thing is that ship sailed years ago. Now all we are known for is an ageing group of functioning alcoholics who dress up in hats with big feathers in them. Photographed at pavement cafes in increasingly obscure destinations, with big pints of lager in front of them.

Never heard the one about "when you can't beat them and they won't let you join them." That's what all this anyone but England stuff is really about.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I really don't mind what the English lose at.

[SRHibs]

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The other way round.

Anyway rivalry can't be the right word, as that would involve competition. More like jealousy, or insecurity that wee Scotland will be forgotten.

Thing is that ship sailed years ago. Now all we are known for is an ageing group of functioning alcoholics who dress up in hats with big feathers in them. Photographed at pavement cafes in increasingly obscure destinations, with big pints of lager in front of them.

Never heard the one about "when you can't beat them and they won't let you join them." That's what all this anyone but England stuff is really about.

And England are only known for being a mediocre team supported by fat, bald, tattooed hooligans, of course.

I understand people not wanting England to win, but the anti-Scottish sentiment from some on here is absurd.

[Chic Murray]

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And England are only known for being a mediocre team supported by fat, bald, tattooed hooligans, of course.

I understand people not wanting England to win, but the anti-Scottish sentiment from some on here is absurd.

You seen the nick of the Tartan Army?

Who said im anti Scottish? I'm frustrated as hell that we are so pants internationally. Small nation is no excuse.

But, as long as we are represented by a bunch of misfits who think the show is about them, we will get nowhere.

Besides you're first part is wrong, they are known for being World Cup semi finalists.

[Since90+2]

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The other way round.

Anyway rivalry can't be the right word, as that would involve competition. More like jealousy, or insecurity that wee Scotland will be forgotten.

Thing is that ship sailed years ago. Now all we are known for is an ageing group of functioning alcoholics who dress up in hats with big feathers in them. Photographed at pavement cafes in increasingly obscure destinations, with big pints of lager in front of them.

Never heard the one about "when you can't beat them and they won't let you join them." That's what all this anyone but England stuff is really about.

I've never been to a Scotland away game but drinking a pint of cold lager in a pavement cafe in an obscure part of the world with a few mates sounds pretty fun to me. A few hundred Hibs fans will be doing the same in a few weeks.

We must all be ageing functioning alcoholics. Maybe minus the feather hats though.

[Big_Franck]

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A friend of mines brother who is Northern Irish, but lived most of his life in Scotland has pretty much written where I would stand in all this in this blog on the subject debated on this thread.

http://bloodandporridge.co.uk/wp/?p=9092

That was a decent read, thanks for posting. Completely disagree with the sentence below though:

Conversely, now that Scotland has its own devolved parliament and has at least a measure of responsibility for its own affairs, and now that the new generation of English fans have a better reputation than their predecessors, the anyone-but-England mentality seems much less pronounced in Scotland.

Thankfully the ABE attitude is just as strong as it ever has been in my experience. Mon the Croats

[G B Young]

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The other way round.

Anyway rivalry can't be the right word, as that would involve competition. More like jealousy, or insecurity that wee Scotland will be forgotten.

Thing is that ship sailed years ago. Now all we are known for is an ageing group of functioning alcoholics who dress up in hats with big feathers in them. Photographed at pavement cafes in increasingly obscure destinations, with big pints of lager in front of them.

Never heard the one about "when you can't beat them and they won't let you join them." That's what all this anyone but England stuff is really about.

I don't know about functioning alcoholics, but it's certainly long struck me that those who continue to follow Scotland abroad at every opportunity must do so primarily because it's a way of life rather than a desire to follow a successful football team. Anyone who started following Scotland away, say, in their late 20s will be pushing 50 by now and will never have seen us at a major tournament so if they're still soldiering on there must be something more than football that keeps them going. If you look at it that way, then I guess the results don't really matter. You can treat it as just as one long knees-up where the ongoing failure on the football field (and maybe the frustrations of day-to-day life) can be blotted out by booze. Hey-ho, another failed qualification campaign...never mind, there'll be another one kicking-off again next year.

[Big_Franck]

Also, the idea that some have on here that Scotland-England can't be rivals because of the gulf in quality are talking out their hole. Tell that to Espanyol or Barcelona fans, or to Torino and Juventus fans, or to Sunderland and Newcastle fans for that matter.

[Billy Whizz]

Been a quick year, and shows you just how quickly things can change in football
Scotland were within seconds of beating England just off a year ago. If it’s wasnt for Stuart Armstrong giving a stupid ball away, Southgate would have been getting pelters

[Big_Franck]

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I don't know about functioning alcoholics, but it's certainly long struck me that those who continue to follow Scotland abroad at every opportunity must do so primarily because it's a way of life rather than a desire to follow a successful football team. Anyone who started following Scotland away, say, in their late 20s will be pushing 50 by now and will never have seen us at a major tournament so if they're still soldiering on there must be something more than football that keeps them going. If you look at it that way, then I guess the results don't really matter. You can treat it as just as one long knees-up where the ongoing failure on the football field (and maybe the frustrations of day-to-day life) can be blotted out by booze. Hey-ho, another failed qualification campaign...never mind, there'll be another one kicking-off again next year.

Of course following Scotland is a way of life, we're Scottish. Nobody I know follows their team because they are successful. If we did we'd have given up watching Hibs many years ago.

[Smartie]

Scotland have been little better than a shambles for 25+ years.

We scrap to avoid humiliation against the true minnows of the world and convince ourselves that because we're a small country we deserve to be as crap as we are (whilst ignoring the achievements of similarly sized or smaller countries like Iceland, Uruguay and Croatia).

England are a massive country with loads of talented players and have pulled miles ahead of us. They deserve to be in the semi-final and are 2 games away from winning the World Cup.

One of the great pleasures of being a Scotsman is dragging England down to our level and scrapping with them at any sport. We might not win, but we have an appetite to go back for more, again and again and again and it is one of my favourite Scottish characteristics.

I love the nation England. I visit it frequently. I have a great number of English friends, up here and down South and people from the 2 countries tend to get on very well indeed with each other.

To a point, I quite like the hype when they are at a major tournament. There in an angle to the coverage that means that whether you like them or not, there is more of an interest there than when they are not there. I'm generally speaking ambivalent to their results throughout qualifying and in the early stages of tournaments, I don't get particularly upset when they win, I don't mind when they lose but the longer they stay in tournaments, the more interesting it generally is.

I hope they get pumped rotten tonight, and if not tonight then I hope they get pumped on Sunday. For any Scot who wants England to win the World Cup, fair enough that is your opinion. But I think that this is the most bizarre form of Stockholm syndrome ever and frankly, and Scot who wants them to actually win the tournament (and all that will go with that) wants their head examining.

[Col_0762]

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The other way round.

Anyway rivalry can't be the right word, as that would involve competition. More like jealousy, or insecurity that wee Scotland will be forgotten.

Thing is that ship sailed years ago. Now all we are known for is an ageing group of functioning alcoholics who dress up in hats with big feathers in them. Photographed at pavement cafes in increasingly obscure destinations, with big pints of lager in front of them.

Never heard the one about "when you can't beat them and they won't let you join them." That's what all this anyone but England stuff is really about.

Involve competition like them snatching a draw against us in the last campaign?

I follow Scotland away. Have done since I was roughly 16/17. None of my group wear a glengarry with a feather in it. Neither do about 80% of the travelling support. The wider Scotland support who travel away now has definately changed over the last 10 years or so, from the idea of getting away for a jolly to more real football supporters, who are genuinely gutted when we lose and desperate to qualify for a tournament. To generalise us all as you have done is utter pish. I spend a fortune following Scotland (on top of every Hibs game home and away) and why? I love football, I love Scotland, I love being away supporting my country. Added bonus is going to loads of countries I would otherwise never dream of going to. Like with Hibs, I’ve also made lots of friends following them as well.

See the years when we (Hibs) were constantly ***** and Hearts lording it over us, were we no longer their rivals?

England fans who follow England dislike us as much as we dislike them. Ever been to Wembley lately for a game v Them? We were treated to verbals etc. like every football fan is when you play a rival. Also pelted with bevvy and the rest at half time down the stairs. Both sides going at it. Giving it laldy to us in the pubs before and after. This was the same at the friendly down there before the qualifier. I’m sure it would be the same for them up here. Part and parcel of a football rivalry.

Also, they sing as much about us as we do about them, which isn’t actually very much. At games v eachother, yes, quite a bit. Against other teams, nah, except the old cheer up when either of us are getting beat or been beat.

The anyone but England is part of a football rivalry. Like ours with the ****bos. It’s intensified up here due to the media ramming everything down our throats. However, the mute button for the TV and not reading a national rag solves that issue. Not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand how a rivalry works. It will never go away.

[we are hibs]

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Involve competition like them snatching a draw against us in the last campaign?

I follow Scotland away. Have done since I was roughly 16/17. None of my group wear a glengarry with a feather in it. Neither do about 80% of the travelling support. The wider Scotland support who travel away now has definately changed over the last 10 years or so, from the idea of getting away for a jolly to more real football supporters, who are genuinely gutted when we lose and desperate to qualify for a tournament. To generalise us all as you have done is utter pish. I spend a fortune following Scotland (on top of every Hibs game home and away) and why? I love football, I love Scotland, I love being away supporting my country. Added bonus is going to loads of countries I would otherwise never dream of going to. Like with Hibs, I’ve also made lots of friends following them as well.

See the years when we (Hibs) were constantly ***** and Hearts lording it over us, were we no longer their rivals?

England fans who follow England dislike us as much as we dislike them. Ever been to Wembley lately for a game v Them? We were treated to verbals etc. like every football fan is when you play a rival. Also pelted with bevvy and the rest at half time down the stairs. Both sides going at it. Giving it laldy to us in the pubs before and after. This was the same at the friendly down there before the qualifier. I’m sure it would be the same for them up here. Part and parcel of a football rivalry.

Also, they sing as much about us as we do about them, which isn’t actually very much. At games v eachother, yes, quite a bit. Against other teams, nah, except the old cheer up when either of us are getting beat or been beat.

The anyone but England is part of a football rivalry. Like ours with the ****bos. It’s intensified up here due to the media ramming everything down our throats. However, the mute button for the TV and not reading a national rag solves that issue. Not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand how a rivalry works. It will never go away.

Great post.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Also, the idea that some have on here that Scotland-England can't be rivals because of the gulf in quality are talking out their hole. Tell that to Espanyol or Barcelona fans, or to Torino and Juventus fans, or to Sunderland and Newcastle fans for that matter.

Likewise Celtic and Rangers these days.

[Gordy M]

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Involve competition like them snatching a draw against us in the last campaign?

I follow Scotland away. Have done since I was roughly 16/17. None of my group wear a glengarry with a feather in it. Neither do about 80% of the travelling support. The wider Scotland support who travel away now has definately changed over the last 10 years or so, from the idea of getting away for a jolly to more real football supporters, who are genuinely gutted when we lose and desperate to qualify for a tournament. To generalise us all as you have done is utter pish. I spend a fortune following Scotland (on top of every Hibs game home and away) and why? I love football, I love Scotland, I love being away supporting my country. Added bonus is going to loads of countries I would otherwise never dream of going to. Like with Hibs, I’ve also made lots of friends following them as well.

See the years when we (Hibs) were constantly ***** and Hearts lording it over us, were we no longer their rivals?

England fans who follow England dislike us as much as we dislike them. Ever been to Wembley lately for a game v Them? We were treated to verbals etc. like every football fan is when you play a rival. Also pelted with bevvy and the rest at half time down the stairs. Both sides going at it. Giving it laldy to us in the pubs before and after. This was the same at the friendly down there before the qualifier. I’m sure it would be the same for them up here. Part and parcel of a football rivalry.

Also, they sing as much about us as we do about them, which isn’t actually very much. At games v eachother, yes, quite a bit. Against other teams, nah, except the old cheer up when either of us are getting beat or been beat.

The anyone but England is part of a football rivalry. Like ours with the ****bos. It’s intensified up here due to the media ramming everything down our throats. However, the mute button for the TV and not reading a national rag solves that issue. Not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand how a rivalry works. It will never go away.

Perfectly summed up mate

[Chic Murray]

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Involve competition like them snatching a draw against us in the last campaign?

I follow Scotland away. Have done since I was roughly 16/17. None of my group wear a glengarry with a feather in it. Neither do about 80% of the travelling support. The wider Scotland support who travel away now has definately changed over the last 10 years or so, from the idea of getting away for a jolly to more real football supporters, who are genuinely gutted when we lose and desperate to qualify for a tournament. To generalise us all as you have done is utter pish. I spend a fortune following Scotland (on top of every Hibs game home and away) and why? I love football, I love Scotland, I love being away supporting my country. Added bonus is going to loads of countries I would otherwise never dream of going to. Like with Hibs, I’ve also made lots of friends following them as well.

See the years when we (Hibs) were constantly ***** and Hearts lording it over us, were we no longer their rivals?

England fans who follow England dislike us as much as we dislike them. Ever been to Wembley lately for a game v Them? We were treated to verbals etc. like every football fan is when you play a rival. Also pelted with bevvy and the rest at half time down the stairs. Both sides going at it. Giving it laldy to us in the pubs before and after. This was the same at the friendly down there before the qualifier. I’m sure it would be the same for them up here. Part and parcel of a football rivalry.

Also, they sing as much about us as we do about them, which isn’t actually very much. At games v eachother, yes, quite a bit. Against other teams, nah, except the old cheer up when either of us are getting beat or been beat.

The anyone but England is part of a football rivalry. Like ours with the ****bos. It’s intensified up here due to the media ramming everything down our throats. However, the mute button for the TV and not reading a national rag solves that issue. Not sure why it’s so hard for people to understand how a rivalry works. It will never go away.

We were in the same league as Hearts. We are not even in the same competition as England.

Crowing when they lose is a pitiful admission of how little we have to offer.

There is also the more sinister aspect of racist bullying that we need to guard against.

Sorry mate, the rivalry is dieing as more and more of us adopt the role of curious onlookers. Scotland is moving on.

[cleanyman]

It's coming home

[Hibbyradge]

Zoom in on the nose.

[Scottie]

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We were in the same league as Hearts. We are not even in the same competition as England.

Crowing when they lose is a pitiful admission of how little we have to offer.

There is also the more sinister aspect of racist bullying that we need to guard against.

Sorry mate, the rivalry is dieing as more and more of us adopt the role of curious onlookers. Scotland is moving on.

What the **** are you going on about FFS You either must know nothing about the history of your country that has brought our country to where it is today or you are on your holidays from school.

[Col_0762]

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We were in the same league as Hearts. We are not even in the same competition as England.

Crowing when they lose is a pitiful admission of how little we have to offer.

There is also the more sinister aspect of racist bullying that we need to guard against.

Sorry mate, the rivalry is dieing as more and more of us adopt the role of curious onlookers. Scotland is moving on.

How can it be dieing when we played eachother in the last qualifiers? A sell out at Wembley and Hampden and both away sections sold out, suggests the rivalry is far from dead. Look at the sheer euphoria Griffiths’s second goal and Kanes’s equaliser caused in each support. That meant nothing to anyone right enough.

[Chic Murray]

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What the **** are you going on about FFS You either must know nothing about the history of your country that has brought our country to where it is today or you are on your holidays from school.

Which part of our history, MacBeth, Darien, The Jacobites, the slave trade? You're going to have to help me out to show me where hatred has gotten us where we are today.

[Since90+2]

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My country is built on hatred of another nation?

Laughable.

[Chic Murray]

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How can it be dieing when we played eachother in the last qualifiers? A sell out at Wembley and Hampden and both away sections sold out, suggests the rivalry is far from dead. Look at the sheer euphoria Griffiths’s second goal and Kanes’s equaliser caused in each support. That meant nothing to anyone right enough.

Yeah, they're still talking about that in the cafes in Shoreditch, and pubs of Liverpool, not to mention some of the trendier parts of Leith.

"some hate the English. I don't. They're just ****ers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by ****ers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a ***** state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****ing difference."

[Since90+2]

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Which part of our history, MacBeth, Darien, The Jacobites, the slave trade? You're going to have to help me out to show me where hatred has gotten us where we are today.

Nice quick edit of your original post which I quoted.

[Chic Murray]

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Nice quick edit of your original post which I quoted.

Is it, aye?

Lets just stick to the topic in hand and leave the personal stuff out. It would be ever so nice if you could.

Both posts meant pretty much the same thing.

[Col_0762]

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Yeah, they're still talking about that in the cafes in Shoreditch, and pubs of Liverpool, not to mention some of the trendier parts of Leith.

"some hate the English. I don't. They're just ****ers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by ****ers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a ***** state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****ing difference."

Starting to think you’re Chick Young and not Chic Murray with the pish you’re coming out with. Quoting Trainspotting now to back up your point.

[One Day Soon]

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What the **** are you going on about FFS You either must know nothing about the history of your country that has brought our country to where it is today or you are on your holidays from school.

Oh aye?

[Chic Murray]

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Starting to think you’re Chick Young and not Chic Murray with the pish you’re coming out with. Quoting Trainspotting now to back up your point.

No need.

[cleanyman]

Its ***** being Scottish

Now come on England

[Since90+2]

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Is it, aye?

Lets just stick to the topic in hand and leave the personal stuff out. It would be ever so nice if you could.

Both posts meant pretty much the same thing.

If you genuinely believe that Scotland was built on the hatred of England then fair enough. I'll bail out and let you continue on your crusade.