HFC remembers

[Sergey]

Here's a link to an interesting and informative article that was published in 2012, and I'd also draw your attention to the comments at the bottom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervicemen.html

[McIntosh]

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Here's a link to an interesting and informative article that was published in 2012, and I'd also draw your attention to the comments at the bottom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervicemen.html

After rereading your previous posts it is fair to say that you in principle not against this type of initiative but this charity?

[Pretty Boy]

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Some on here need to show an ounce of compassion and really have to stop their grand rhetoric. They need to forget their political position for one moment and remember that we are dealing with someone's son, sister or brother. Your average solider is not political just like your average punter. Soldiers are doing a job, a very dangerous job at that. If you are going to blame anyone blame politicians but soldiers are as much victims as anyone. We have a duty to look after our people, particularly when they have been sent on misadventures.

Says it all really.

Remembering and support the individual is completwly different from supporting the conflict or the system.

[CraigHibee]

nice touch by the club

[greengnome]

Well done to both clubs.... Being an ex squaddie, I appreciate gestures like this.

[McIntosh]

I will not name the person I am going to talk about out of respect and not to distress any member of his family.

In 1983 when I left school the country was in the grip of a terrible recession made worse by the policies of the then Government. I was fortunate that I got a job a number my school friends had very limited opportunities. The ones that were available included joining the Army. I always remember that being a squaddie was seen as a short term move until things got better. Those that joined up were in dread of a tour in Northern Ireland they were teenagers but they took the view that they needed to get their head down and get through it.

Unfortunately, he was killed on his first tour and was buried in his hibs top and scarf at the cemetery at Easter Road. There really is an irony there. He was a victim, he was one of our people on so many different levels. As I said earlier, we have a real duty to look after our people, particularly when they have been sent on misadventures.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Nobody ever remembers the merchant seamen who died. Would be nice to see them included somewhere. Those of us who served in war zones are entitled to wear medals and are given veteran badges by the MOD but alas, then forgotten about. This is not a dig at a fantastic initiative.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Nobody ever remembers the merchant seamen who died. Would be nice to see them included somewhere. Those of us who served in east zones are entitled to wear medals and are given veteran badges by the MOD but alas, then forgotten about. This is not a dig at a fantastic initiative.

I remember them.

My Granda was in the Merchant Navy during WW2, and thankfully came through it. I still can't hear the Sailors' Hymn without tearing up.

Respect.

[Lucius Apuleius]

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I remember them.

My Granda was in the Merchant Navy during WW2, and thankfully came through it. I still can't hear the Sailors' Hymn without tearing up.

Respect.

Thanks Crops, always the forgotten mob. We never had guns to fight back. 😃

Me too mate.

Blessed are those who go down to the SEA in ships

[Gerard]

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[JimBHibees]

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Some on here need to show an ounce of compassion and really have to stop their grand rhetoric. They need to forget their political position for one moment and remember that we are dealing with someone's son, sister or brother. Your average solider is not political just like your average punter. Soldiers are doing a job, a very dangerous job at that. If you are going to blame anyone blame politicians but soldiers are as much victims as anyone. We have a duty to look after our people, particularly when they have been sent on misadventures.

Nail on head, ordinary but hugely brave people doing extraordinary things. The least we as a country should do is look after them if they get severely injured in conflict. A wonderful initiative.

[Sir David Gray]

Well I, for one, wholeheartedly support the efforts of Hibs and QOS on this.

It's a good initiative and it will hopefully raise a decent amount of money for a worthy cause.

[Jonnyboy]

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The chain reaction of evil--wars producing more wars -- must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.

~Martin Luther King, Jr

Sorry Hibs but I cant support your support for illegal wars.

I will commemorate those who have died in the WW1 and other wars but I cant support an army that takes part in illegal wars which sees poor people fighting poor people only to make the rich richer.

The war may have been illegal but in what way could those that served in it refuse to do so? It seems to me that some in this thread are failing to see what the charity is set up to do.

[21.05.2016]

Brilliant initiative. Good to see us doing our bit to show our respect and our gratitute to these brave men and women.


Lest we forget x

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The war may have been illegal but in what way could those that served in it refuse to do so? It seems to me that some in this thread are failing to see what the charity is set up to do.

Agreed. I didn't support the war in Iraq either, but the blame for it lies in Washington and London, amongst people who didn't have to put their own lives on the line. I think nakedman makes a perfectly correct point in relation to opposition to the war being misrepresented by Tory Bliar and his government as treason in order to silence criticism, but again that isn't the issue here.

[McD]

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Some on here need to show an ounce of compassion and really have to stop their grand rhetoric. They need to forget their political position for one moment and remember that we are dealing with someone's son, sister or brother. Your average solider is not political just like your average punter. Soldiers are doing a job, a very dangerous job at that. If you are going to blame anyone blame politicians but soldiers are as much victims as anyone. We have a duty to look after our people, particularly when they have been sent on misadventures.

Eloquently put.

it is possible and not hypocritical to show appreciation, recognition, and remembrance for the men and women who stand a post and lay their lives on the line for each of us, whilst at the same time not supporting the wars they may have been ordered to participate in.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Eloquently put.

it is possible and not hypocritical to show appreciation, recognition, and remembrance for the men and women who stand a post and lay their lives on the line for each of us, whilst at the same time not supporting the wars they may have been ordered to participate in.

Exactly.

[Glorious St Pat]

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Your first attempt at attacking this was to have a go at them for using the line from a War Poem, which was from the first world war. You've now abandoned that and accused this of not being about anyone from the World wars and just about supporting current soldiers. I am sure if Hibs could hand out tickets to soldiers and their immediate families from WW1 and 2, they would... unfortunately not many of these heroes are around nowadays.

Nobody is asking you to pay for their tickets. What is the problem with making such a gesture towards current soldiers and their families on the same day as we pay tribute to those who fell for us, all those years ago. Bear in mind - these soldiers are ordinary people like you and I, many of them likely friends of people on here. Really don't get your issue.

"oncrack" indeed.

Perhaps it is because there are a number of us who feel uneasy at our boys being sacrificed in illegal and unjust wars. It's almost like poppy fascism. Can I wear a white poppy instead?

[Gerard]

At this time we are paying respect to the falllen of the 'Great War', 1914-18. There are no living combatitants who served in this war. I wish that when I was at school that more attention had been placed on teaching the things that took place in that war. In 2045 we will pay our respects the the fallen of the second war, as that will also be 100 years after its conclusion. The 'Great War' was a war that touched the lives of every family in this country. Football fans from every club served in the armed forces and many would make the ultimate scarifice and may others would return with life changing injuries. Our Armed forces are still being asked to make the ultimate sacrifice and many return with life changing injuries. I think our club is acting in a just way to show our gratitude of what our armed forces do for us the civilian population in war and also in peace when they can be called to serve the civivilan population when the need arises.

[Sergey]

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After rereading your previous posts it is fair to say that you in principle not against this type of initiative but this charity?

It's HfH that I'm against.

FWIW - I travel to Ypres a couple of times a year (previously on business, now simply as a tourist) - I've spent many a night at the Menin Gate with my family to witness the last post. As a keen road cyclist, I’ve also cycled around the many Commonwealth graves in Flanders - indeed,I even helped to locate the grandfathers grave of another poster on this very forum (which we found in Calais).I've spent holidays in Amiens touring the battlefields of the Somme and I still travel to France and Belgium on a regular basis.

Purely coincidentally, I also viewed the poppies around the Tower of London last week and I also shook the hand of an elderly Chelsea Pensioner. Their scarlet coat isn’t just comfortable, warm, weatherproof and elegant – it’s a wearable gift voucher. Nobody seen in it has ever paid for their own drink. It effortlessly provides free taxis and will carry its inhabitant to the head of any queue. And, regardless of your previous position in life, it will garner unlimited love and respect.

What grates is the fact that other charities are clearly losing out to HfH.I've absolutely no qualms popping a couple of quid in a tin to buy a poppy, or standing a round of drinks for a few Chelsea Pensioners or visiting Canadians in Northern Belgium – but other charities are being compromised.

And in case some you missed my link…here it is again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervicemen.html

[marinello59]

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Perhaps it is because there are a number of us who feel uneasy at our boys being sacrificed in illegal and unjust wars. It's almost like poppy fascism. Can I wear a white poppy instead?

If you think our boys are being sacrificed then you'll be glad that the club is doing something to raise funds to help them. Surely you can differentiate between the politicians and the guys who we ask to do what the Governments we elect tell them to do?
Nobody is stopping you wearing a white poppy are they? I'll be wearing the normal red one because I know and like where the funds are going to but I understand why others would wear the white version. That's the joys of a free country.

[marinello59]

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It's HfH that I'm against.

FWIW - I travel to Ypres a couple of times a year (previously on business, now simply as a tourist) - I've spent many a night at the Menin Gate with my family to witness the last post. As a keen road cyclist, I’ve also cycled around the many Commonwealth graves in Flanders - indeed,I even helped to locate the grandfathers grave of another poster on this very forum (which we found in Calais).I've spent holidays in Amiens touring the battlefields of the Somme and I still travel to France and Belgium on a regular basis.

Purely coincidentally, I also viewed the poppies around the Tower of London last week and I also shook the hand of an elderly Chelsea Pensioner. Their scarlet coat isn’t just comfortable, warm, weatherproof and elegant – it’s a wearable gift voucher. Nobody seen in it has ever paid for their own drink. It effortlessly provides free taxis and will carry its inhabitant to the head of any queue. And, regardless of your previous position in life, it will garner unlimited love and respect.

What grates is the fact that other charities are clearly losing out to HfH.I've absolutely no qualms popping a couple of quid in a tin to buy a poppy, or standing a round of drinks for a few Chelsea Pensioners or visiting Canadians in Northern Belgium – but other charities are being compromised.

And in case some you missed my link…here it is again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ervicemen.html

I get the point you are making here and I do have some sympathy for other charities who are being squeezed out. It's a difficult one. The problem is that the traditional military covenant has been ignored and broken by the last few Governments. Now instead of the Government looking after men and women who have been damaged by their service it's down to ''society as a whole'' and charities.
My view is that it's not HfH that is depriving the other charities, it's the Government who should be funding a lot of thing these charities do. I don't like that but I'll still support the charities.

[ekhibee]

As an ex-serviceman myself I think it's important to remember that this initiative is supporting troops, the vast majority of them ordinary men and women like you and me. It is most certainly not about supporting the government, whichever one's in power. If anything, it's pointing out the governments shortcomings in not providing the necessary funds for rehab centres, etc. I honestly didn't think there would be such a debate about this topic, how truely naive I am, even now.

[Capt Mainwaring]

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Sorry, i just see they Army faces as Rangers fans.

Deary me - how sad you are!

Back on topic - this is a great initiative from Hibs. Top marks

[Bostonhibby]

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I will not name the person I am going to talk about out of respect and not to distress any member of his family.

In 1983 when I left school the country was in the grip of a terrible recession made worse by the policies of the then Government. I was fortunate that I got a job a number my school friends had very limited opportunities. The ones that were available included joining the Army. I always remember that being a squaddie was seen as a short term move until things got better. Those that joined up were in dread of a tour in Northern Ireland they were teenagers but they took the view that they needed to get their head down and get through it.

Unfortunately, he was killed on his first tour and was buried in his hibs top and scarf at the cemetery at Easter Road. There really is an irony there. He was a victim, he was one of our people on so many different levels. As I said earlier, we have a real duty to look after our people, particularly when they have been sent on misadventures.

This, and your other posts on this thread - I do not always support some of our military interventions, some I do, that is often influenced by peoples individual prejudices, beliefs or goals however on every occasion I 100% support those who are out their carrying out the will of the government we elect and can protest about.

If anything we should recognise their courage and professionalism in doing as they are ordered when perhaps they personally might not agree with everything they are being asked to do either. Having a go about it is a luxury they don't have, and the rest of us do as a result of being the kind of democracy that our military defend.

[Sir David Gray]

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Sorry, i just see they Army faces as Rangers fans.

I see that a few people have completely dismissed your post here, however I think it's important that when someone makes a point which is so far off the mark as you are with the point you've made here that these points are challenged.

Can you please explain yourself in terms of what you mean by this ridiculous statement?

The fact that fans of Rangers shamefully exploit the Armed Forces for their own bigoted reasons is not the fault of the many thousands of ordinary men and women who represent this country with the utmost bravery and dignity. They put themselves on the line and when they go to war, they leave their friends and families behind and have absolutely no idea if that's the last time they'll ever see them.

I cannot begin to imagine what that must feel like.

This country would be a lot worse off if we didn't have our Armed Forces and I don't think it's much to ask that we think about them for a couple of weeks every year, around the anniversary of Armistice Day.

To dismiss these people as being just a buch of Rangers fans is so wrong, it actually beggars belief.

[FranckSuzy]

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Perhaps it is because there are a number of us who feel uneasy at our boys being sacrificed in illegal and unjust wars. It's almost like poppy fascism. Can I wear a white poppy instead?

Protest at the governments that decide the course of action then and don't aim your unease at the guys who are just serving their country by doing their job.

Funnily enough, I'm sure the guys who serve couldn't give a toss who you are or what your beliefs are if they are called upon to assist.

[Vini1875]

Don't think the club should be involved with this at all.

[Brizo]

Reading the link the primary purpose is remembering the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WW1 while a secondary spin off is that the shirts worn by the players will be auctioned off with proceeds going to H4H.

With regard to the primary purpose i think its right for the club to take part in this initiative. Anyone with a problem with it should really read their copy of Lugton 2 to see the ultimate sacrifice so many Hibs players and fans paid in WW1. Quite simply its the decent and respectful thing to do.

Regarding H4H i don't know enough about their operation to know how much goes into admin and how much goes to the deserving people. The clue is of course that its a charity auction and if people have concerns they don't need to bid. Maybe they can make a donation to another ex serviceman charity if they feel it will allocate more of the monies received direct to those who need it.

[Joe's ice cream]

http://www.qosfc.com/new_newsview.aspx?newsid=2551

Heard about this as I stay down in Dumfries , nice touch from Hibs.
Also never realised that QOTS came about as an amalgamation of three clubs as the article points out.