Show of Hands: Move on?

[AndyM_1875]

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I totally agree but while there is plenty of smoke, unless you can find actual documentary evidence of the fire and convince Scottish football authorities to take their head out of their arse and do something about it, forgetting about it is pretty much all you can do.

As far as I'm concerned the evidence of the fire is the certificate of HMFC being in Administration and a creditor list that dwarfed Rangers one and that's enough to find them guilty.So no, I won't forget.

But I have no faith in the Scottish football authorities to successfully order a pizza never mind sort the game out. Nothing will happen with Rangers and there will be no deep look into the game to keep restraints on idiots running Hearts or Dundee into the wall and allowing a pantomime like Gretna happening again. It'll be as shambolic and favouring of the old firm (whatever that is these days) as it's always been.

[Robinho08]

Absolutely not, they're a new entity and never let them forget that!

[Tomsk]

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He's right though.

If it was any other club no one would give a damn.

With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

[Ozyhibby]

With about 85% of Hibs fans in favour of a full investigation, it's disappointing that the club continue to ignore the supporters on this issue. It's even more disappointing that the fans reps are now doing the exact same.


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[lapsedhibee]

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With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

[WhileTheChief..]

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With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

[Tomsk]

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If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

That's entirely your prerogative. But if it had been Brechin they would have been rightly kicked out of the SFA, which only adds to the pervading stench of injustice for those who do care.

[ancient hibee]

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With about 85% of Hibs fans in favour of a full investigation, it's disappointing that the club continue to ignore the supporters on this issue. It's even more disappointing that the fans reps are now doing the exact same.


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There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

[blackpoolhibs]

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There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

Why do folk like yourself ignore the FACT that they HID the side letters? If they had shown the full contract up front to the authorities, we wouldn't be having any of this.

Their players were improperly registered, just as those from clubs like Spartans and others who have been thrown out of competitions or docked points.

They took the decision to hide those side letters, against the porn magnates advice.

Ask yourself why?

What they and everyone else concerned can't deny, is their players were not properly registered. The laws were there at the time and are still there to punish them.

To do nothing is a crime in itself, and will leave a stench no amount of air freshener will rid.

[Ozyhibby]

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There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

You say I'm exaggerating the number because it's a poll on here but I've actually never met at Hibs fan who is not in favour of an investigation.


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[660]

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With respect, he is not right. He makes the argument that Rangers are guilty only of financial mismanagement, like all Rangers did was a bit of overspending. If only.

In reality, over a sustained period of time they did indeed overspend. They also indulged in a tax evasion scheme, which in order to hide from the authorities they improperly registered players and officials in their employ. These actions gave them an unfair sporting advantage, brought the game into disrepute and led to a crisis in Scottish football. All of this has been proved in various court proceedings and investigations.

To make matters worse, far worse in my opinion, the SFA, the SPL, and now the SPFL, colluded with Rangers to ease their landing and ensure their continued existence in Scottish football. The consequence is a game whose bodies charged with its governance are held in contempt, lack integrity, transparency and trust and whose names are by-words for corruption and arrogance.

That wasn’t my point at all. My point was that people are more aware of the intricate details of Rangers cheating compared to other clubs for several pretty obvious reasons. Until you address the imbalance of the increased focus on Rangers, then it all seems quite hollow.

[lapsedhibee]

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That wasn’t my point at all. My point was that people are more aware of the intricate details of Rangers cheating compared to other clubs for several pretty obvious reasons. Until you address the imbalance of the increased focus on Rangers, then it all seems quite hollow.

How is it an imbalance? They were at it, systematically, for TEN YEARS, dwarfing anything that went on anywhere else. And for the avoidance of doubt I'm talking about side letters, not financial mismanagement.

[Bostonhibby]

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You say I'm exaggerating the number because it's a poll on here but I've actually never met at Hibs fan who is not in favour of an investigation.


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I have what I'd call a " hard core" of 8 Hibs fans that I am frequently in touch with 2 St Mirren and one Hearts fan.

It may or may not be representative of a true sample as statistics can be interpreted to suit any agenda, however every one wants the titles stripped and the reasons recorded. They fully understand what hiding the side letters meant and also the effect of playing with players you could not otherwise have afforded.

Don't really know anyone who is in the "move on" camp.

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[MrSmith]

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I have what I'd call a " hard core" of 8 Hibs fans that I am frequently in touch with 2 St Mirren and one Hearts fan.

It may or may not be representative of a true sample as statistics can be interpreted to suit any agenda, however every one wants the titles stripped and the reasons recorded. They fully understand what hiding the side letters meant and also the effect of playing with players you could not otherwise have afforded.

Don't really know anyone who is in the "move on" camp.

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That reflects my friends too.

[Crazyhorse]

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There's lot in what you say but I don't think exaggerating the number of Hibs fans when it's 85percent of a handful who have voted in a poll on here does the argument any favours.For what it's worth I've never discussed or heard the subject mentioned by other Hibs fans other than on this board except when the Revenue finally won it's case.I really don't think although I'm not claiming to know that the majority don't give it much thought.
There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.

I completely agree with your second point. Your first is debateable. Maybe some people who say they follow Hibs,i.e. take an interest, check the score etc. are not so focused on this. But those of us who for decades, purchase season tickets, go to games (even if it means travelling long distances), buy a lot of merchandise, etc. are very switched on to this scandal. If you had a season ticket for everyone of those cheating years (like I did) then you really do feel like you were cheated. Any chance of a refund? SFA? SPFL? Rod?

The fact that those who are responsible for the stewardship of our club at the moment seem to wish to 'move on' (i.e. assist in the cover up of rule breaking on an scale never before seen in Scottish football) makes me very angry.

The rational reaction would be too say f*** you to the whole thing, you're not getting another penny of my hard earned money. In other spheres of life you would do just that.
But football and supporting Hibs isn't an area where reason plays much of a role. Which is what the SFA, SPFL, those running the clubs, are banking on.

[Crazyhorse]

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The only thing I’ll say is it’s bizarre to single out Rangers for financial misconduct when several other clubs have done effectively the same thing. I find it embarrassing that Rangers are the target as opposed to the concept of financial doping. If sporting integrity is the aim then Rangers are entitled to say “ What about Motherwell Dundee or Hearts”? It comes across as an incredibly incoherent witch hunt as opposed to a legitimate desire for sporting integrity.

The whole thing strikes me as misguided and naive. I’d welcome an nvestigation into the effect of illegitimate finance on Scottish football and the honours won in that period. To focus on Rangers misses the point. I didn’t vote in the poll.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but my view is that once the rules are properly applied to Rangers, and they lose the prizes which they won through the mis-registration of players(cheating), then attention will turn to those other club. Sevco and their pals in the media and elsewhere will turn over every stone to find out what was going on at Hearts etc. This is one of the reason I want to see Rangers properly punished for their rule breaking.

[Thecat23]

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If it had been Brechin would anyone have cared?

Im not disputing anything you say here but it's been practically the same chat for the last 5 years.

Some of us just don't care as much as others.

Apparently that makes us part of the problem. Same as if we enjoy sky sports and don't kick up a fuss about player wages and transfer fees etc etc.

Well sod that. I enjoy the football and don't give a toss about stripping titles or all the legal stuff that surrounds the game. I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

You don't think football is at all corrupt? Wow, you must live in a bubble as it's one of the most corrupt sports in the world.

[Ozyhibby]

https://johnjamessite.com/

In relation to this thread.


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[High-On-Hibs]

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I also don't think the games corrupt at all. If that makes me part of the problem then so be it. I don't care!

[ancient hibee]

A

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Why do folk like yourself ignore the FACT that they HID the side letters? If they had shown the full contract up front to the authorities, we wouldn't be having any of this.

Their players were improperly registered, just as those from clubs like Spartans and others who have been thrown out of competitions or docked points.

They took the decision to hide those side letters, against the porn magnates advice.

Ask yourself why?

What they and everyone else concerned can't deny, is their players were not properly registered. The laws were there at the time and are still there to punish them.

To do nothing is a crime in itself, and will leave a stench no amount of air freshener will rid.

And why don't people like you learn to read posts properly and then it would stop you making stupid comments about them?

[WhileTheChief..]

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You don't think football is at all corrupt? Wow, you must live in a bubble as it's one of the most corrupt sports in the world.

I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

[Ozyhibby]

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I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

It's not really about Rangers. It's about the SFA.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

i see Gail has been using all his 30+ aliases to vote move on

[blackpoolhibs]

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A


And why don't people like you learn to read posts properly and then it would stop you making stupid comments about them?

Why do you feel the need to cloud the issue with this, this is exactly what the authorities and the ex huns want?

There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.


The laws were in place then, and are in place now to punish the club like athletes or cyclist would be?

[High-On-Hibs]

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I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

We don't think it's corrupt, it IS corrupt. It's been shown up time and time again to be corrupt. Your argument seems to be for the sake of disagreement, rather than using logic.

[Thecat23]

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I just don't agree with that at all. Maybe we have differing opinions on what corruption is?

Aren't folk allowed or have different opinions on this matter? Seems me that anyone that wants to just move on is wrong and you guys are right?

I keep reading on here about corruption. Just because you guys think the game is corrupt doesn't mean that it is.

I don't even know what you mean by one of the most corrupt sports in the world? In what way?

I don't however suggest that you live in a bubble. I just see it differently to you and don't feel the need for everyone to agree with me.

I still think this whole thing is simply down to people's hatred of Rangers.

This isn't anything to do with The Rangers case. Football all over the world is corrupt. As I say have you been living in a bubble? Wasn't there a huge corruption case against FIFA or did I dream it?

These are facts not just made up by folk on here who have different opinions on the Rangers saga. That's fine you don't care about that not everyone will. But to be so naive to say you haven't seen or heard of any corruption is baffling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35578319

[ancient hibee]

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Why do you feel the need to cloud the issue with this, this is exactly what the authorities and the ex huns want?

There's no doubt in my mind that the side letters are the big issue.The EBTs were all over various industries and were not tax evasion but companies taking a chance on tax law which had not been tested.I see Edinburgh Woollen Mill have just taken measures to unravel one.The fact that it took the Revenue to persevere through the appeals to get what I would consider to be Obviously the right result showed what a minefield tax law is.


The laws were in place then, and are in place now to punish the club like athletes or cyclist would be?

Haven't the faintest idea what you're on about.The point I'm making is that the main issue in the deception was the use of side letters and their non disclosure.That should be perfectly clear but you in some strange way think I'm making excuses for them.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

It always winds me up when you see tv footage of the teams waiting in the tunnel at ibrox and they have the wooden honours boards with all "their" previously won honours

For me, this is one of the reasons why this should be taken forward

[WhileTheChief..]

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This isn't anything to do with The Rangers case. Football all over the world is corrupt. As I say have you been living in a bubble? Wasn't there a huge corruption case against FIFA or did I dream it?

These are facts not just made up by folk on here who have different opinions on the Rangers saga. That's fine you don't care about that not everyone will. But to be so naive to say you haven't seen or heard of any corruption is baffling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35578319

Ok corruption in FIFA has been rife for years, I'll agree on that point.

It has had absolutely zero impact on Hibs though and if another thread on here is to believed then nobody would actually care as they only care about Hibs games!

[WhileTheChief..]

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We don't think it's corrupt, it IS corrupt. It's been shown up time and time again to be corrupt. Your argument seems to be for the sake of disagreement, rather than using logic.

Again, just because you say it's corrupt doesn't mean it is.

What is this corruption that you all know about that I've missed??

I'm disagreeing because I don't believe in what you guys are saying. That's a perfectly logical stance to take.