Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.

[lucky]

This law brought in because of an over reaction from the government after an Old Firm game and minor bother at an Edinburgh derby. The law was wrong from the outset as it was discriminatory against football fans. Existing laws were sufficient to deal with anyone who breaks the law. I for one will be delighted when it’s gone then maybe our politicians will get with actually doing something to eliminate sectarianism in our society

[Eyrie]

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If you want to break sectarian chanting in Scottish football you just need to arrest and charge a sample of say 10 to 20 of the people doing it at each game. You'd kill it in months if not weeks.

Of course that would require the police to want to do it, which in turn would only happen if a heavy line was sent down from Scottish Government to Police Scotland to make it happen. A bit like - in fact exactly like - what happened after our cup final. That massively expensive and prolonged operation took place because the Scottish Government said publicly that such behaviour wouldn't be tolerated.

The laws are all in place, where's the will?

The will would be there if the chants were aimed at women, non-Christian religions, LBGTI, non-whites, disabled etc.

But instead a blind eye is turned to anti-Catholic or pro-terrorist singing, which effectively normalises such behaviour.

[johnbc70]

Already on the Ross C v The Rangers game I have heard how they are up to their knees in Fenian blood and the game has not even started.

[kaimendhibs]

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Already on the Ross C v The Rangers game I have heard how they are up to their knees in Fenian blood and the game has not even started.

Heard that. Truly vile creatures

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

[JK Rolling]

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Just me that thinks its ridiculous this act has been repealed? Just allows these animals in the west to spout pure hatred even more

Sorry forgot to add link: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...nsive-11914782

It's not just you mate, I totally agree with you.

It's just a shame that the powers that be have neither the will nor desire to deal with it.

There are a number of clubs fans who are guilty of crossing the line between banter and downright offensive.

In particular;

The Rangers Tribute Act have shown regularly that they are just as bad as their dead originals.

Celtic being regularly punished by UEFA highlights the tip of the iceberg in relation to what they get up to on a weekly basis.

The SFA don't have the will, desire or bottle to address either half of the Ugly Sisters.

The Celtic fans led FAC - Fans Against Criminalisation - Sums this lot up.

Here's an idea and it's one i've implemented for over 40 years of attending football - Go to the game, behave like a human being in relation to how you think others would like to be treated. Enjoy the match (not always easy), then go home (via the boozer). I don't think i've ever at any point 'worried/thought overly' about the legislation simply because i'm not a total ********. (I did say not a total).

Only my opinion for what it's worth.

[lucky]

Don’t get confused with a law tackling sectarianism and a discriminatory law against football fans. I don’t want to get political, but Kenny MacSkill got it wrong from the start a bit like the BTP and Police Scotland merger

[JK Rolling]

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Don’t get confused with a law tackling sectarianism and a discriminatory law against football fans. I don’t want to get political, but Kenny MacSkill got it wrong from the start a bit like the BTP and Police Scotland merger

Don't get confused with the law, in general.

The so called discrimination you speak of regarding football fans exists because there are NO other sports in Scotland that require to be addressed in relation to the offences/crimes that this legislation covers. At no point have i thought/said that it was the cure-all fix to the poisonous bile and bigotry that exists in some areas of Scottish society but it was a start/attempt to address the issues surrounding football supporter related incidents in a manner that would be high profile. Let's not forget, and as you've mentioned yourself, that it all came about as a result of a 'Summit' involving the ScottishGovernment, the SFA and "Old-Firm' representatives after the touch line spat between Lenny/McCoist and the historic spikes in arrests at that fixture.

I don't want to get political either but the rationale behind the legislation was sound, MacAskill - as a solicitor in a previous life - would not have simply 'done his job' as the Justice Minister, there was a high degree of credibility involved here so he would have applied his previous knowledge/experience in relation to the Act.

With you not wanting to get political you'll need to clarify for me what the BTP and Police Scotland has to do with this.

However, and to be political and to seek clarification, the BTP/Police Scotland merger was pushed through the Scottish Parliament in June 2017, Kenny MacAskill left the post of Cabinet Secretary for Justice in 2014 (replaced by Michael Matheson - who's still in post) so how exactly has he "got it wrong from the start a bit like the BTP and Police Scotland merger"?

[lucky]

MacSkilll was the so called brains behind both the OFB and the police merger. Both were opposed by industry experts. The Offensive behaviour at football act was poor legislation from the outset, judges, lawyers, most football fans and human rights activists all agreed it was an unnecessary discriminatory law and ineffective in achieving stopping sectarianism at football and in society

[Tornadoes70]

I'd have thought the blue hun coat Potter wears trackside would almost certainly be offensive to most. He is one cretinous creature.

Mon the Cabbage!!!

[ronaldo7]

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MacSkilll was the so called brains behind both the OFB and the police merger. Both were opposed by industry experts. The Offensive behaviour at football act was poor legislation from the outset, judges, lawyers, most football fans and human rights activists all agreed it was an unnecessary discriminatory law and ineffective in achieving stopping sectarianism at football and in society

Why wasn't it amended then, instead of repealed?

[Onion]

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Finish the sentence those that think we should keep it. The Offensive Behaviour at Football Act has made a difference because........

Scotlands shame, will only be tackled when it's points deducted or having to play in empty stadiums.

Correct. The authorities could erradicate this problem virtually overnight if they really wanted to. Instead, they choose to give the illusion of tackling the issue. It's patently obvious they have their own agenda and are unprepared to stand up to Celtic and Sevco who need their "special atmosphere" to maintain their crowds and attraction to Sky and the media.

[marinello59]

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Why wasn't it amended then, instead of repealed?

Because the laws to tackle this properly are already in place?

[One Day Soon]

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Why wasn't it amended then, instead of repealed?

Some legislation is just so poor or unnecessary that it is better repealed or replaced altogether than amended. The poll tax would be one example. I think the current new legislation on lobbying would be another.

Football has been too easy a whipping boy for politicians, particularly when there is a public 'event' to react to. Into this category I would place; Thatcher's intervention on all-seated grounds (after Heysel was it?), the example quoted above on Offensive Behaviour following OF grief and the massive and excessive police operation following our cup final.

[lord bunberry]

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Why wasn't it amended then, instead of repealed?

Did anyone propose amending it?

[ronaldo7]

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Because the laws to tackle this properly are already in place?

Threatening communications? Which law covers this?

[ronaldo7]

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Did anyone propose amending it?

I don't know, that's why I asked. The act was using a hammer to crack a nut, imo, however we're off on a new road towards strict liability, if we don't watch out.

It's a pity the SFA don't have the baws to curtail the Neanderthals in the weege.

[jonty]

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Poorly written legislation that was rushed through.

There’s legislation already in place to tackle sectarianism without singling out football fans. It’s the willingness, or lack of, of the authorities to use it that is the real issue here.

This. If it had been used as intended, it would be hailed a success. Supporters can be 'educated' in what's right and what's wrong but unless its enforced (ie see smoke bombs, smoking, pitch invasions) then supporters will continue to do as they like.

The flip side, is clubs should be leading by example. Celtic haven't been caught up in any wrong doing (yet) while Rangers are rotten to the core.

[marinello59]

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I don't know, that's why I asked. The act was using a hammer to crack a nut, imo, however we're off on a new road towards strict liability, if we don't watch out.

It's a pity the SFA don't have the baws to curtail the Neanderthals in the weege.

I totally agree with you about the dangers of strict liability.
The SFA will continue to turn a blind eye to it all. Perhaps the only hope is for the fans themselves to sort it out.

[lord bunberry]

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I don't know, that's why I asked. The act was using a hammer to crack a nut, imo, however we're off on a new road towards strict liability, if we don't watch out.

It's a pity the SFA don't have the baws to curtail the Neanderthals in the weege.

I think strict liability is now inevitable. In principle it’s a sensible idea, but the whatabouterry that will go on will make things difficult for all clubs.

[JimBHibees]

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I think strict liability is now inevitable. In principle it’s a sensible idea, but the whatabouterry that will go on will make things difficult for all clubs.

Not sure it will come in as it will need the clubs to vote it through. It really is abhorrent that certain songs are now allowed to be sung with impunity and no one at certain clubs even make an effort to tell the fans not to do it. There really is a moral cowardice around this from politicians, sports authorities, clubs and the media who apart from one or two notable exceptions never at any point try and raise their concerns with this sort of illegal nonsense. If the same vehemence was focussed on it as was the cup final investigation it would be very quickly sorted.

[Firestarter]

Do previous convictions get quashed?

[One Day Soon]

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Not sure it will come in as it will need the clubs to vote it through. It really is abhorrent that certain songs are now allowed to be sung with impunity and no one at certain clubs even make an effort to tell the fans not to do it. There really is a moral cowardice around this from politicians, sports authorities, clubs and the media who apart from one or two notable exceptions never at any point try and raise their concerns with this sort of illegal nonsense. If the same vehemence was focussed on it as was the cup final investigation it would be very quickly sorted.

And this is the crux of the matter.

Why aren't Police Scotland prioritising it?

Why aren't Sturgeon and Matheson demanding that Police Scotland target it?

Why aren't journalists, media and commentators pointing it out every time it happens and raising the same holy hell they did over our cup final?

Why are the SFA failing to confront it?

Why aren't the clubs involved making examples of offenders to discourage others?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Not sure it will come in as it will need the clubs to vote it through. It really is abhorrent that certain songs are now allowed to be sung with impunity and no one at certain clubs even make an effort to tell the fans not to do it. There really is a moral cowardice around this from politicians, sports authorities, clubs and the media who apart from one or two notable exceptions never at any point try and raise their concerns with this sort of illegal nonsense. If the same vehemence was focussed on it as was the cup final investigation it would be very quickly sorted.

I think it can be imposed by Government.

[One Day Soon]

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Do previous convictions get quashed?

No.

[lord bunberry]

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Not sure it will come in as it will need the clubs to vote it through. It really is abhorrent that certain songs are now allowed to be sung with impunity and no one at certain clubs even make an effort to tell the fans not to do it. There really is a moral cowardice around this from politicians, sports authorities, clubs and the media who apart from one or two notable exceptions never at any point try and raise their concerns with this sort of illegal nonsense. If the same vehemence was focussed on it as was the cup final investigation it would be very quickly sorted.

I get the feeling that the government will put pressure on the clubs to vote in strict liability. It takes the problem away from the politicians and forces the football world to sort itself out.

[JimBHibees]

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And this is the crux of the matter.

Why aren't Police Scotland prioritising it?

Why aren't Sturgeon and Matheson demanding that Police Scotland target it?

Why aren't journalists, media and commentators pointing it out every time it happens and raising the same holy hell they did over our cup final?

Why are the SFA failing to confront it?

Why aren't the clubs involved making examples of offenders to discourage others?

Totally agree it should be a priority in my eyes anyway as quite frankly it is a national embarrassment. The lack of will is the worst thing about it and you do get the impression politicians of all shades are loath to really put themselves out there in case they lose seats. I suppose the Government will say that this was the sole reason for the act that has just been repealed however for whatever reason it hasnt worked so something else needs to happen and it would be brilliant if it was an all party agreed approach. I genuinely wish the tv companies would highlight it rather than turning the sound down. Whenever an OF game is on there is much made about the amazing atmosphere a high percentage of which are religious or politically based lyrics.

[JimBHibees]

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I get the feeling that the government will put pressure on the clubs to vote in strict liability. It takes the problem away from the politicians and forces the football world to sort itself out.

If that happens I think it would be a positive step because something needs to happen. It is a societal problem however the depressing fact that the two biggest clubs in the country are so clearly linked with different religions is a joke and highlights and exacerbates the issue. There was research paper recently which clearly highlighted that football authorities need to lead the way on this .

[One Day Soon]

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If that happens I think it would be a positive step because something needs to happen. It is a societal problem however the depressing fact that the two biggest clubs in the country are so clearly linked with different religions is a joke and highlights and exacerbates the issue. There was research paper recently which clearly highlighted that football authorities need to lead the way on this .

It is also the single biggest corrupting factor in the quality and vitality of our game. It leads to a completely imbalanced league that stifles proper competition and in turn weakens our performances in Europe and internationally.

It is like watching two vampires gorging on the living, relentlessly.

[JimBHibees]

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It is also the single biggest corrupting factor in the quality and vitality of our game. It leads to a completely imbalanced league that stifles proper competition and in turn weakens our performances in Europe and internationally.

It is like watching two vampires gorging on the living, relentlessly.

Totally agree but people apparently from all over the world stop what they are doing to tune in when they play each other (copyright. C. Young BBC sportsound).

[Geo_1875]

The only problem with the OBFA was that it gave the impression that Scottish football fans are 90 minute bigots when the truth is that they have deeply held beliefs that guide every part of their lives.