NHC. EPL small team spending!

[EricStoner]

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In response to Eric Stoner
Still baffled how the Danish league generates more than double the cash that ours does. No one seems to be able to explain this. I wonder what the people who run our game would say to that question?

I'm hearing Ivor Cutler reciting "Gruts for Tea" at this point.
We are not indentured labour. We ain't working for the company store. We are not paid in truck or tokens. We are not pre-Bosman footballers.
There is a hugely competitive market economy out there for sports coverage. Especially football coverage.
Elevensports.com, an on-line company, has exclusive rights to the USPGA golf taking place right now. The same company has bought rights to several top European football leagues. I'm not sure how people who bought 40-inch plasmas to go with their Sky and BT subs will react to coverage moving to their i-phone😂.
Just as there will be popular heartfelt "Mason / Feenyin / **** in the black / SFA boardoom" threads on here, as well as the odd thread mentioning Asian bookies and matches featuring strange events, a thread in which posters genuinely hold that incompetent blazers are failing to secure easily achievable deals for TV coverage will attract plenty of nodding dogs.
I personally doubt if the initial contact in the aforementioned Elevensports.com on-line deals was an e-mail from a Serie A blazer to an Italian spiv along the lines of, "Pssst! Fancy setting-up an online service to show our games?" but it might have been. In general, though, commercial departments at all football associations and leagues - Scottish ones included - maintain lines of communication with all the major broadcasters on the matter of TV rights. Anyone who believes the SFA & SPFL marketing boys are not regularly in contact with broadcasters is entitled to voice their view. As they are entitled to voice their views on masons in black, moon missions to the Nevada desert or Prince Philip's motoring skills being utilised in a Paris underpass.
Maybe an aggressive approach of asking broadcasters for, say, "£50m per season. Take it or leave it" would pay dividends... Dividends of £50m per year. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it's been tried, the SFA/SPFL bluff was called & they backed down.
Perhaps Danes watch football on TV in preference to attending games. Perhaps subscriptions in Denmark are higher. Perhaps companies advertising on TV coverage tend to be more "blue chip" in Denmark, attracting higher rates and a more affluent class of potential customer than Ray Winstone's "Check ahhht Bet Free Six Fahhve, fahrawwwl da odds."
Little point in telling all this to someone who probably believes Ivor Cutler's poetry makes the literary merit of the Koran in Classical Arabic look like Phil MacGiollabhain's blog.

Edit: G - u - N - t gets starred out on here😨?... & I hate phone spell checkers😬

[Lago]

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Just watching Match of the Day and the first game up is Fulham v Chrystal Palace. Gary Lineker says “Fulham celebrated their return to the EPL with a 100 million pound summer spending spree” How can Scotland and many other countries compete with that? Makes me sick!!!

They can't & never will now, that ship has sailed.

[superfurryhibby]

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I'm hearing Ivor Cutler reciting "Gruts for Tea" at this point.
We are not indentured labour. We ain't working for the company store. We are not paid in truck or tokens. We are not pre-Bosman footballers.
There is a hugely competitive market economy out there for sports coverage. Especially football coverage.
Elevensports.com, an on-line company, has exclusive rights to the USPGA golf taking place right now. The same company has bought rights to several top European football leagues. I'm not sure how people who bought 40-inch plasmas to go with their Sky and BT subs will react to coverage moving to their i-phone😂.
Just as there will be popular heartfelt "Mason / Feenyin / **** in the black / SFA boardoom" threads on here, as well as the odd thread mentioning Asian bookies and matches featuring strange events, a thread in which posters genuinely hold that incompetent blazers are failing to secure easily achievable deals for TV coverage will attract plenty of nodding dogs.
I personally doubt if the initial contact in the aforementioned Elevensports.com on-line deals was an e-mail from a Serie A blazer to an Italian spiv along the lines of, "Pssst! Fancy setting-up an online service to show our games?" but it might have been. In general, though, commercial departments at all football associations and leagues - Scottish ones included - maintain lines of communication with all the major broadcasters on the matter of TV rights. Anyone who believes the SFA & SPFL marketing boys are not regularly in contact with broadcasters is entitled to voice their view. As they are entitled to voice their views on masons in black, moon missions to the Nevada desert or Prince Philip's motoring skills being utilised in a Paris underpass.
Maybe an aggressive approach of asking broadcasters for, say, "£50m per season. Take it or leave it" would pay dividends... Dividends of £50m per year. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it's been tried, the SFA/SPFL bluff was called & they backed down.
Perhaps Danes watch football on TV in preference to attending games. Perhaps subscriptions in Denmark are higher. Perhaps companies advertising on TV coverage tend to be more "blue chip" in Denmark, attracting higher rates and a more affluent class of potential customer than Ray Winstone's "Check ahhht Bet Free Six Fahhve, fahrawwwl da odds."
Little point in telling all this to someone who probably believes Ivor Cutler's poetry makes the literary merit of the Koran in Classical Arabic look like Phil MacGiollabhain's blog.

Edit: G - u - N - t gets starred out on here😨?... & I hate phone spell checkers😬

So what your’re saying is that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about?

[lord bunberry]

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I'm hearing Ivor Cutler reciting "Gruts for Tea" at this point.
We are not indentured labour. We ain't working for the company store. We are not paid in truck or tokens. We are not pre-Bosman footballers.
There is a hugely competitive market economy out there for sports coverage. Especially football coverage.
Elevensports.com, an on-line company, has exclusive rights to the USPGA golf taking place right now. The same company has bought rights to several top European football leagues. I'm not sure how people who bought 40-inch plasmas to go with their Sky and BT subs will react to coverage moving to their i-phone😂.
Just as there will be popular heartfelt "Mason / Feenyin / **** in the black / SFA boardoom" threads on here, as well as the odd thread mentioning Asian bookies and matches featuring strange events, a thread in which posters genuinely hold that incompetent blazers are failing to secure easily achievable deals for TV coverage will attract plenty of nodding dogs.
I personally doubt if the initial contact in the aforementioned Elevensports.com on-line deals was an e-mail from a Serie A blazer to an Italian spiv along the lines of, "Pssst! Fancy setting-up an online service to show our games?" but it might have been. In general, though, commercial departments at all football associations and leagues - Scottish ones included - maintain lines of communication with all the major broadcasters on the matter of TV rights. Anyone who believes the SFA & SPFL marketing boys are not regularly in contact with broadcasters is entitled to voice their view. As they are entitled to voice their views on masons in black, moon missions to the Nevada desert or Prince Philip's motoring skills being utilised in a Paris underpass.
Maybe an aggressive approach of asking broadcasters for, say, "£50m per season. Take it or leave it" would pay dividends... Dividends of £50m per year. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it's been tried, the SFA/SPFL bluff was called & they backed down.
Perhaps Danes watch football on TV in preference to attending games. Perhaps subscriptions in Denmark are higher. Perhaps companies advertising on TV coverage tend to be more "blue chip" in Denmark, attracting higher rates and a more affluent class of potential customer than Ray Winstone's "Check ahhht Bet Free Six Fahhve, fahrawwwl da odds."
Little point in telling all this to someone who probably believes Ivor Cutler's poetry makes the literary merit of the Koran in Classical Arabic look like Phil MacGiollabhain's blog.

Edit: G - u - N - t gets starred out on here😨?... & I hate phone spell checkers😬

Just because a channel is only available online doesn’t mean you can’t watch it on your tv. I was watching the golf on eleven sports last night on tv.

[EricStoner]

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So what your’re saying is that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about?

Aye. To an extent.
I've no idea how negotiations go between TV firms & Hampden. I doubt anyone on here has.
I'm only guessing as to reasons other countries get better TV deals.
Why do folk buy Coca-Cola more than other brands? Is it better? Is it just marketed more cleverly? Is it just fashion?
If companies in a sophisticated market are not paying as much for product A as they are for product B, then there's likely to be a sound reason for it.
Even if product A is better, would the cost of marketing it to replace product B be worth it?
Problem though, isn't it? Sort of Catch-22.
It's the TV companies that market the English Premier League. Marketing football without TV firms is difficult. The English Premier League more or less fluked the launchpad for its position when Murdoch threw large sums of money at it. Most analysts thought he significantly over paid.

[nellio]

Fulham and Wolves are going to be in deep trouble if they go down. Fully expecting my team Cardiff to go down but we've only spent about 25 million on players so we won't be in a huge mess. If we can somehow battle and survive then we will be in a great position financially.

[Colr]

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Fulham and Wolves are going to be in deep trouble if they go down. Fully expecting my team Cardiff to go down but we've only spent about 25 million on players so we won't be in a huge mess. If we can somehow battle and survive then we will be in a great position financially.

Sell the expensive players, trouser the parachute payment and then start the whole cycle again.

[superfurryhibby]

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Aye. To an extent.
I've no idea how negotiations go between TV firms & Hampden. I doubt anyone on here has.
I'm only guessing as to reasons other countries get better TV deals.
Why do folk buy Coca-Cola more than other brands? Is it better? Is it just marketed more cleverly? Is it just fashion?
If companies in a sophisticated market are not paying as much for product A as they are for product B, then there's likely to be a sound reason for it.
Even if product A is better, would the cost of marketing it to replace product B be worth it?
Problem though, isn't it? Sort of Catch-22.
It's the TV companies that market the English Premier League. Marketing football without TV firms is difficult. The English Premier League more or less fluked the launchpad for its position when Murdoch threw large sums of money at it. Most analysts thought he significantly over paid.

Most of this I understand

With my limited insight, I would guess that Scottish football is watched by more people domestically and generates more international interest than the likes of the Danish, Norweigian, Hungarian leagues?

Maybe that is wrong of course, but if correct then there is some strange disconnect between the market size and the value attached to the product. Can the Danish League really be worth twice as much as ours? Seems bizarre to me.

[CorrieHibs]

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Do you think it’s only people in Scotland that pay for sky sports?

Of course not. However, we contribute to it by funding English sides. Whilst our teams get very little

[CorrieHibs]

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No they wouldn’t. This is the logic of Rangers fans to be honest - totally misguided

Explain?

[Cocaine&Caviar]

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excellent retort...whilst I enjoy French football, I hope you're not suggesting that the French league is better that the EPL?

bar Monaco who were also propped up with wads of cash, the last of those was six years ago. meanwhile the English league has been won by a different winner each year since 09-10. with the last time it was won 3 years in a row by the same side coming 06-09.

the standard also far surpasses the French league.

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No not at all, i just didnt think France deserved to be included in your list

[Just Jimmy]

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No not at all, i just didnt think France deserved to be included in your list

Fair enough. The point was the EPL gets slammed on here relentlessly, yet it is more competive- as in a different winner- that most other major leagues. I won't argue on entertainment level as I love German football and I enjoy the French league. They are just different.

I just find it daft when some people go out their way to label it the third best league etc which, in imo, is an attempt to look clever. when in reality it's competitive, generally exciting and the best players want to play in it.



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[Winston Ingram]

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Fulham and Wolves are going to be in deep trouble if they go down. Fully expecting my team Cardiff to go down but we've only spent about 25 million on players so we won't be in a huge mess. If we can somehow battle and survive then we will be in a great position financially.

Fulham’s owner is loaded. They’ll be fine. Wolves have super agent Jorge Mendes involved who is probably the most connected person in football. If they need to sell any players they’ll get top dollar

[Winston Ingram]

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Of course not. However, we contribute to it by funding English sides. Whilst our teams get very little

Scotland does but ye’ve got to remember there are only 5m people in Scotland. There are 55m in England.

I’m not sure there are stacks of Sky Sports subscribers in the 5m.

[killie-hibby]

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Scotland does but ye’ve got to remember there are only 5m people in Scotland. There are 55m in England.

I’m not sure there are stacks of Sky Sports subscribers in the 5m.

SFA/SPFL should request a pro rata payment based on Sky Sports contributions from Scotland. That would be approximately 9% of the amount given to the English leagues.

[CorrieHibs]

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Scotland does but ye’ve got to remember there are only 5m people in Scotland. There are 55m in England.

I’m not sure there are stacks of Sky Sports subscribers in the 5m.

I’m not saying there isn’t. You are missing my point.

[w pilton hibby]

SPFL chiefs ‘rip up TV deal’ five years early

More at: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...arly-1-4782916

[One Day Soon]

I'd say the best European leagues are Spain, England and Germany - in that order. Then Italy coming up fast on the rails. All the rest are quite a good bit behind in terms of both quality and strength in depth.

[Winston Ingram]

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I’m not saying there isn’t. You are missing my point.

What is your point?

[Winston Ingram]

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SFA/SPFL should request a pro rata payment based on Sky Sports contributions from Scotland. That would be approximately 9% of the amount given to the English leagues.

How would that work? There are lots of sports included in a monthly subscription.

[vahibbie]

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Really?
1,000 urban Chinese. All in 1m+ population cities. Randomly selected. Asked if they can point to Scotland on a map.
Sweep. Fiver in each. Pick the number of the 1,000 Chinese who can point to Scotland. Closest takes the pot. You put in your fiver. What number would you go for?
I'd go well below 50.

Urban Chinese are notoriously p!sh at geography.

I'm relatively well travelled and although a lot of people identify England and UK as being one and the same Scotland by itself is very well known.
BTW, I'd suggest the same Chinese would also struggle to pinpoint England on a map.

[jgl07]

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I don't think they were saying it was going to burst tomorrow though, were they? Because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it won't.

Dream on!

[danhibees1875]

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Another point to consider.

BT recently stopped showing the Italian league as they didn’t want to pay more for it.

They don’t show the Norwegian League, or the Slovakian one or whatever. Why? Because there isn’t the interest in them in the UK. We want the German, Italian, Spanish and French leagues.

So BT or Sky pay millions to these countries for the rights to show their leagues. Similarly these other countries pay billions to show the English game.

Which other countires are out there wanting to pay to show the SPFL?

Now you could argue that it’s up to the authorities to make the sales pitch and get these deals but I’d suggest that’s a pretty hard sell when folk living a stones throw from their own stadiums don’t even care!

Its just the way it is. These leagues operate on a different planet to the rest of the game. It won’t end any time soon but it’s basically going to be a cartel of the top 10 or clubs playing each other.

Theyll soon get bored when Madrid win everything each year.

Meanwhile the rest of us throughout Europe can crack on.

I agree with a lot of what you say here - and often think that the deal can be over exaggerated just to use as a stick to beat the SFA with -...but how are we lagging behind Denmark, Norway, and Sweden then? Hate them or loathe them, Sevco v Celtc surely generates more interest than anything they serve up, with Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts all providing relatively in-demand games also.... maybe I'm just being extremely ignorant with that point of view though.

[SRHibs]

I don’t understand how 1000 Chinese peoples’ geography skills has any bearing on how ethnically diverse Scotland is. Surely we have to look within the country itself to determine that.

Scotland has a great culture though, IMO. I don’t think it’s fair to call it a “backwater”. I think Scotland’s population as a whole is extremely welcoming to people from all walks of life, while still retaining our own heritage and culture.

[timewilltell]

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Couldn't agree more.

Agreed.

the EPL is marketed very effectively. It’s a big brand, a graat product and is watched by millions around the world.

The sponsorship and TV deals are huge and provide millions to the Premiership clubs exactly for that reason. It’s in demand. Games across the English Premiership are sold out every week.

By contrast our game is poorly marketed. There was under 5k at Perth yesterday and to be honest, nobody outside Scotland would pay to watch St Johnstone v Hibs.

its the harsh reality I’m afraid.

[GillyHibee]

Until the SPFL bears more competition in who will win the league, there wont be any level of interest. Every season, its either been Celtic or Rangers who have won the league. No competition.

Unfortunately, that is just the way it is. If the trumpets running the SFA didn't opt for Setanta Sports then we could be in a different position today, where we would receive a better TV income, but nevertheless, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

imo, merging of smaller city teams, such as Dundee and Dundee UTD, would provide a lot more competition, due to combined stadiums, fans and money.

quite interested to hear other folks thoughts on this?

[SingaporeHibs]

Will be interesting to see what happens when the biggest English sides decide negotiating and selling their own rights globally suits them best. Pay per view per game, or monthly or season ticket. Then we’ll see what deal is made and how the league divides financially. Will only suit 4 or 5 clubs but will they care, I doubt it. Perhaps a step closer to a proper ‘elite’ European league.

[ScottB]

Nobody owes Scottish football a living, least of all Sky. Market rate, they pay the least they can get away with, for all the content they have. As crazy as it sounds, the billions they throw at the EPL was the minimum they felt they could bid and still secure what they wanted.

For Scottish football to be worth more, you need both more competition, and more interest.


As for the crazy fees, I wonder if the likes of SJM excell, following in Andrew Robertson’s wake, might lead to more clubs looking up here instead of being expected to pay £15 - £20million for comparable players already in England. This could drive our own fees upwards over time.

[WhileTheChief..]

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There was under 5k at Perth yesterday and to be honest, nobody outside Scotland would pay to watch St Johnstone v Hibs.

its the harsh reality I’m afraid.

This sums up the issue in a nutshell.

No point blaming the SFA or SPFL, we just need to accept that we are a smal fish in a big pond and get on with it the best we can.

[jgl07]

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Until the SPFL bears more competition in who will win the league, there wont be any level of interest. Every season, its either been Celtic or Rangers who have won the league. No competition.

Unfortunately, that is just the way it is. If the trumpets running the SFA didn't opt for Setanta Sports then we could be in a different position today, where we would receive a better TV income, but nevertheless, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

imo, merging of smaller city teams, such as Dundee and Dundee UTD, would provide a lot more competition, due to combined stadiums, fans and money.

quite interested to hear other folks thoughts on this?

Absolute garbage. Football support is not transferable by merger. What happens when someone suggests merging Hibs with Hearts?