Sack him or back him?

[matty_f]

Ep 260 Sack Him or Back Him?

What needs to change at Hibs after another failure of a season? We cover your talking points as frustration sees fingers pointed at Monty, Kensell, players and McDermott.
📺 https://youtu.be/-ssJVmUB8Z8?si=RpkwkK5WxXZS2DGl
🎧 https://pod.fo/e/231364

[ozwoody]

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Ep 260 Sack Him or Back Him?

What needs to change at Hibs after another failure of a season? We cover your talking points as frustration sees fingers pointed at Monty, Kensell, players and McDermott.
📺 https://youtu.be/-ssJVmUB8Z8?si=RpkwkK5WxXZS2DGl
🎧 https://pod.fo/e/231364

Good listen again guys.

One of the points regarding getting rid of players and starting again and how much it will cost...

We have loans that will be going back to parent clubs, players finishing contracts at end of season too, so there is a chunk needing replaced straight away that won't need paying off.
If others have a year on contract, pay them off or put them on transfer list, if they have more than a year, put ones in team you want and tell others they will be squad players rather than first choices, I bet they will be onto agent quickly enough.

Will it need to be massive rebuild in summer? Absolutely, is it now necessary? Yes. We cannot be bottom six this time next year as all these fancy hospitality lounges will be ghost towns and will start costing us revenue as opposed to being revenue generators

[bingo70]

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Ep 260 Sack Him or Back Him?

What needs to change at Hibs after another failure of a season? We cover your talking points as frustration sees fingers pointed at Monty, Kensell, players and McDermott.
📺 https://youtu.be/-ssJVmUB8Z8?si=RpkwkK5WxXZS2DGl
🎧 https://pod.fo/e/231364

Really good listen, well done to the three of you for it.

I sometimes find your podcasts almost quite therapeutic as it’s good to have a laugh at ourselves sometimes, i think it’s almost had the opposite effect on me today though as i agreed with a lot of the points (not all) john was making.

Something within me is saying give Monty some time and it’s not impossible he could come good. I don’t know why I think that though, every logical argument I can think of comes back to the right decision being to replace him though.

By replacing him now, the new manager can get his own players in this summer and would effectively have the blank canvas Stubbs had. If we don’t replace him now and he goes into next season then it turns out all the red flags/alarms were the case, then we can pretty much effectively right next season off again. Unfortunately for Monty, to avoid the current situation coming up again next season, now is probably the optimum time to sack him.

IMO based on what we’ve seen so far, all the evidence is pointing towards not sacking him now and hoping for the best next season is likely to be a far bigger gamble for next season than holding our hands up and admitting we got it wrong. I know people crave stability but within that stability there has to be progress, I don’t think Monty can point to any, that is where he is different to McInnes and Robinson when McInnes finished 3rd bottom and Robinson had bad spells.

I’m reluctant to bring up this point as I’m fed up of the debate, however thank you Matty for pointing out Ross wasn’t sacked for being 3rd in the league but playing boring football. The boring football meant there was very little/no credit in the bank, he wasn’t sacked for boring football though, we were ***** when he left and we were on a real downward spiral.

[hibsbollah]

A fair debate. Johns arguments chimed more with my position but the others made good points.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

The decision cuts both ways. Sack him and we have to fund pay offs . I don't believe that there isn't a manager out there who could get more out of these players. Back him and arguably that is more expensive. The quality and standard of player needed to play his style of football doesn't come cheap.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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The decision cuts both ways. Sack him and we have to fund pay offs . I don't believe that there isn't a manager out there who could get more out of these players. Back him and arguably that is more expensive. The quality and standard of player needed to play his style of football doesn't come cheap.

From what people have said previously, a pay off would likely be 3 months salary.

At say £5k a week it’s £65k. Paying a manager off isn’t a particularly costly endeavour for us if that’s the case.

[Nicho87]

Another good debate

Didn’t agree with most of John however

Agree on that Monty is a problem and if he gets the bullet the people making the appointments need reviewed also.

Any decent coach improves us / defence over that same period of time though. The lack of wins and final nail in the coffin was Monty describing it seconds from jubilation

That summary just spells out we must be aiming higher if that’s what is getting said behind closed doors.

[bingo70]

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Another good debate

Didn’t agree with most of John however

Agree on that Monty is a problem and if he gets the bullet the people making the appointments need reviewed also.

Any decent coach improves us / defence over that same period of time though. The lack of wins and final nail in the coffin was Monty describing it seconds from jubilation

That summary just spells out we must be aiming higher if that’s what is getting said behind closed doors.

I don’t think the jubilation thing should be taken too seriously or literally.

I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way however Monty isn’t great in front of the camera and always comes across quite nervous I think. I don’t think his choice of words were great but I don’t think he meant it would be cause for great celebration. I just think he was looking for the word that contrasted the way the team felt at full time and came up with jubilation.

I think he’s got enough wrong on the park without picking him up on poor choice of words in post match interviews when I think it was clear what he meant. That’s not a dig at you bye the way, it’s just an observation.

[jeffers]

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I don’t think the jubilation thing should be taken too seriously or literally.

I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way however Monty isn’t great in front of the camera and always comes across quite nervous I think. I don’t think his choice of words were great but I don’t think he meant it would be cause for great celebration. I just think he was looking for the word that contrasted the way the team felt at full time and came up with jubilation.

I think he’s got enough wrong on the park without picking him up on poor choice of words in post match interviews when I think it was clear what he meant. That’s not a dig at you bye the way, it’s just an observation.

Despite me wanting him gone the jubilation comment didn’t bother me at all.

[JohnM1875]

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I don’t think the jubilation thing should be taken too seriously or literally.

I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way however Monty isn’t great in front of the camera and always comes across quite nervous I think. I don’t think his choice of words were great but I don’t think he meant it would be cause for great celebration. I just think he was looking for the word that contrasted the way the team felt at full time and came up with jubilation.

I think he’s got enough wrong on the park without picking him up on poor choice of words in post match interviews when I think it was clear what he meant. That’s not a dig at you bye the way, it’s just an observation.

Completely agree and don't get the furore around it at all. Pretty obviously what he meant. I would have been chuffed if we secured top six with an away win. Much better than having the bottom six games.

[Nicho87]

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I don’t think the jubilation thing should be taken too seriously or literally.

I don’t mean this in a disrespectful way however Monty isn’t great in front of the camera and always comes across quite nervous I think. I don’t think his choice of words were great but I don’t think he meant it would be cause for great celebration. I just think he was looking for the word that contrasted the way the team felt at full time and came up with jubilation.

I think he’s got enough wrong on the park without picking him up on poor choice of words in post match interviews when I think it was clear what he meant. That’s not a dig at you bye the way, it’s just an observation.

I think your right in the grand scheme of things

I just want him to be a bit more brutal, almost relatable and show a bit more passion

I struggle to listen to any Monty interview in all seriousness

[bingo70]

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I think your right in the grand scheme of things

I just want him to be a bit more brutal, almost relatable and show a bit more passion

I struggle to listen to any Monty interview in all seriousness

Yeah I get that.

Something I’ve found frustrating from his interviews is his insistence on praising the fans every week. I know he’s trying to get people on side but I’ve been at games when the fans have been ***** and you’d hear a pin drop and he’s said we’d been brilliant. I think things like that lack sincerity a wee bit and people see through it and he becomes unrelatable.

This isn’t a post about brining Lennon back but I think it’s why he remains so popular, people believed him, he was relatable and he wasn’t reading from a management text book. People buy into people like that imo. I think McInnes is good for that too, when I hear him talk, I generally believe him, even if I don’t always agree with him.

I think Monty seemed a lot more relaxed, comfortable and sincere when I heard his interviews from Australia before he joined us.

[Since452]

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Yeah I get that.

Something I’ve found frustrating from his interviews is his insistence on praising the fans every week. I know he’s trying to get people on side but I’ve been at games when the fans have been ***** and you’d hear a pin drop and he’s said we’d been brilliant. I think things like that lack sincerity a wee bit and people see through it and he becomes unrelatable.

This isn’t a post about brining Lennon back but I think it’s why he remains so popular, people believed him, he was relatable and he wasn’t reading from a management text book. People buy into people like that imo. I think McInnes is good for that too, when I hear him talk, I generally believe him, even if I don’t always agree with him.

I think Monty seemed a lot more relaxed, comfortable and sincere when I heard his interviews from Australia before he joined us.

Agree with every word of that. My thoughts exactly. I genuinely don't think he fully thinks about what he's saying and just goes off on a long winded manager speak waffle. Tries to answer a question with a thousand words. It's not believable or relatable. I can only put it down to him being under pressure as like you say, his interviews from Australia were nothing like that.

[flash]

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Despite me wanting him gone the jubilation comment didn’t bother me at all.

If we had won on Saturday the away end would have undoubtedly been jubilant as we would have accomplished our aim for the day.

To suggest otherwise is simply wrong.

[JimBHibees]

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If we had won on Saturday the away end would have undoubtedly been jubilant as we would have accomplished our aim for the day.

To suggest otherwise is simply wrong.

Yes i think he was merely referencing that particular game not that he himself would have thought it was real success and that the team would be on an open top bus

[matty_f]

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Another good debate

Didn’t agree with most of John however

Agree on that Monty is a problem and if he gets the bullet the people making the appointments need reviewed also.

Any decent coach improves us / defence over that same period of time though. The lack of wins and final nail in the coffin was Monty describing it seconds from jubilation

That summary just spells out we must be aiming higher if that’s what is getting said behind closed doors.

I didn’t agree with John’s argument but i can see the merit in it - I’ve argued the case for giving managers time to build before as well, so I’m not entirely unsympathetic to the view - just don’t agree with it though!

[hibsbollah]

Jubilation, definition; feeling of great happiness and triumph.
"unbelievable scenes of jubilation".

Kind of what you expect when you win a football match.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Long time listener, first time watcher

Great conversation as always. Agree with the route and branfh review that's required but also agree with John that it's unlikely the fans would be comfortable with the timescales an exercise like that might take

We have all these fantastic resources for analysis apparently, just go sign a solid ****ing spine and we're up and running. You look at the spine from any successful side we've had, and none of our current players get near that...

[matty_f]

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Long time listener, first time watcher

Great conversation as always. Agree with the route and branfh review that's required but also agree with John that it's unlikely the fans would be comfortable with the timescales an exercise like that might take

We have all these fantastic resources for analysis apparently, just go sign a solid ****ing spine and we're up and running. You look at the spine from any successful side we've had, and none of our current players get near that...

I wonder how realistic a quick win solution is that would allow short term improvement on the pitch while bigger, longer term improvements are made in the background.

I'm not sold on the idea that a project can't be done while also achieving a modicum of short term success - or at least hitting bare minimum targets.

In the same way I don't believe that the only options are decent football at the expense of results or results at the expense of decent football. There has to be an option that lets you win games and play well.

[WhileTheChief..]

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I think your right in the grand scheme of things

I just want him to be a bit more brutal, almost relatable and show a bit more passion

I struggle to listen to any Monty interview in all seriousness

Yup, agree with all of this.

I don't imagine the players being inspired or motivated by the way he comes across.