Bottom 6 - Has the club said anything yet?

[flash]

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I agree. It looks pretty weak that we haven't acknowledged it in my opinion. You could bet your life on it that if we'd secured top six the socials would have been full of the "and how are we feeling this morning Hibees?" stuff.

I don't care how it makes us look to other clubs. Bottom six is an embarrassment and the club should be saying it isn't acceptable and acknowledging the support who as always, have been excellent this season and travelled in numbers.

It might be the case that when they talk to us next it will be to announce the manager's departure.

Personally I think they will give him more time but it could go either way.

[flash]

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None taken, flash. Busy right now though so someone might post it up. Hence the post. Have a good one though!

Just checked and its ten times each side including this season which is pretty awful.

[.Sean.]

I’m sure we’ll hear from them when they’re trying to flog more season tickets or posting about the women’s team

[hibee_girl]

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A statement saying we are too big a club to finish in the bottom six among the dross of the league? It would sound pretty arrogant.

We’re 7th and yes it’s not good enough but it’s not relegation.

The club will know it’s not good enough, no need for a statement.

[Forza Fred]

If the club decide to keep him there won’t be a statement…it will be business as usual.

If they decide not to keep him there will be a statement.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The money we have spent in the last two or three seasons compared to Killie, Dundee and St Mirren must be significant, possibly even on a par with Hearts in that period, if not more.

To finish outside of the top 6 given the investment in the team is as close to abject failure as you can get short of relegation. We have a massive job in the summer. Probably the last thing we need at this point is European football.

I watched Bournemouth hand Man United their arse on Saturday. OK an abject Man United, but Bournemouth made them look as bad as they were, they could, and should, have been 3 - 0 up at half time.

Is it too much to ask that our new minority owners bring Hibs up to that level in the context of our league?

[eastmainsmsh]

Bottom line it's the players at fault as well imo really poor to watch not just this season you'd think they would be able to up their performance levels and show some consistency

[Wilson]

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The money we have spent in the last two or three seasons compared to Killie, Dundee and St Mirren must be significant, possibly even on a par with Hearts in that period, if not more.

To finish outside of the top 6 given the investment in the team is as close to abject failure as you can get short of relegation. We have a massive job in the summer. Probably the last thing we need at this point is European football.

I watched Bournemouth hand Man United their arse on Saturday. OK an abject Man United, but Bournemouth made them look as bad as they were, they could, and should, have been 3 - 0 up at half time.

Is it too much to ask that our new minority owners bring Hibs up to that level in the context of our league?

We were in Europe. Our performance in those games should have been a good gauge as to where we are. We want to be in Europe. Preferably for a decent run. So we look at where we were weak and improve from there. Kensell and McDermott and Ian Gordon on the case.

How do we go from that to "being in Europe is the last thing we need"?

That says it all for me. We're going backwards at a rate of knotts.

[Since452]

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We’re 7th and yes it’s not good enough but it’s not relegation.

The club will know it’s not good enough, no need for a statement.

It's a colossal failure not just not good enough. We spent over 2 million in the summer and he was given players on Premier League wages in January to try and salvage Europe. Just as well we've been given investment or our next accounts would be even more of a mess. I know we aren't paying the loan players wages but we've missed out on a lot of money being bottom six and i'd wager we wont even finish 7th.

[Alfred E Newman]

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There has been multiple posts and interviews.

Yes, the usual in house spin.

[I'm Spartacus]

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We were so, so close to jubilation though...

I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.

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I’d be interested to know, since the split was introduced. How many times have we finished top 6?

2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

[Iain G]

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Yes, the usual in house spin.

Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

[WhileTheChief..]

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I am but not sure that's relevant.

You’re on fire today. Keep it up.

[WeeRussell]

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Our season pretty much has ended.

I don’t disagree.

But surely would make sense to sum things up and make any apologies the fans feel they’re due once it’s actually finished, rather than a “seeing as our season is pretty much done” type statement before we go into playing 5 more competitive games.

We don’t make official statements when knocked out the league cup in the group stages etc. Interviews and the like acknowledging the disappointing result is the norm. The new world of wanting ‘statements’ all the time is all a bit strange to me.

And I liked it when the word ‘statement’ usually meant we were about to laugh at how pathetic the rangers are.

[Houston7]

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Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

Yes, they seem to like them as much as they like the HMRC (or maybe HMFC, even)!
Also, while obviously we are all entitled to our opinions, many thinking that Maolida is not good enough for Hibs, and others (or maybe the same ones) thinking that we should have a complete clear out and instantly build a winning team from scratch, beggars belief!

[hibsbollah]

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I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.



2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

[I'm Spartacus]

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Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

You can actually see a theme of our successful appointments, ex-players, seasoned pro's, big charachters in the scottish game, who had success in Scotland.

[Alfred E Newman]

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Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

You don't half come out with some tripe.
But I will agree, I certainly don't like what the club has become, a joke.

[Iain G]

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You don't half come out with some tripe.
But I will agree, I certainly don't like what the club has become, a joke.

It's not a joke either. You have been eating your hyperbole pills again.

[hibsbollah]

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You can actually see a theme of our successful appointments, ex-players, seasoned pro's, big charachters in the scottish game, who had success in Scotland.

I suppose so, although obviously we all know that top six alone isnt enough to be considered success. And Maloney and Butcher were successful in the Scottish game too.

[hibsbollah]

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Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

And since i dont have any time on my hands

Since the split after Mcleish we’ve had 15 managers. Even if you discount all the caretaker interim managers in that time (an incredible 13. 13! SDG has done it three times, Eddie May twice. Mad) those 15 managers have been afforded an average of 16 months each. And its amazing how many have been afforded almost exactly the same amount of time, just over one calendar year or just short of two seasons if you prefer (Collins and Calderwood 13 months, Yogi 14,Johnson15 Mixu 16. The longest server has been Lennon at 2 years and 5 months.

Its a sad indictment of performance, recruitment and retention over twenty plus years. I know modern football when you’re a club of our size, tends to be like that, transient, but id hazard a guess if you look at similar sized clubs we’d be an outlier.

[flash]

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You’re on fire today. Keep it up.

Praise indeed.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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And since i dont have any time on my hands

Since the split after Mcleish we’ve had 15 managers. Even if you discount all the caretaker interim managers in that time (an incredible 13. 13! SDG has done it three times, Eddie May twice. Mad) those 15 managers have been afforded an average of 16 months each. And its amazing how many have been afforded almost exactly the same amount of time, just over one calendar year or just short of two seasons if you prefer (Collins and Calderwood 13 months, Yogi 14,Johnson15 Mixu 16. The longest server has been Lennon at 2 years and 5 months.

Its a sad indictment of performance, recruitment and retention over twenty plus years. I know modern football when you’re a club of our size, tends to be like that, transient, but id hazard a guess if you look at similar sized clubs we’d be an outlier.

In that same period, Hearts have had 19, Aberdeen have had 10, Dundee United have had 16.

If you compare us to a team down south then I reckon Spurs would probably be a fair comparison. Expected to be up and around the Euro spots, never expected to win the league. They’ve had 12. Aston Villa could probably be argued to be similar. They’ve had14.

In terms of the Scottish teams that we could probably be grouped with, we’re bang on the average of 15, so definitely not an outlier. If you throw Spurs and Villa into the mix then it comes down to 14. Not really an outlier again.

As a comparison, people keep claiming we’re becoming like Watford. In the same period, they’ve had 23 and are currently without a manager. They’ve had the 15 managers we’ve had since McLeish left (will be 16 when they appoint a new one) in the time we’ve had 7. The idea we’re becoming ‘like them’ is miles off it.

[Hibiza]

Should be saying " Sorry for employing a rookie manager from a sub - standard league ".

[Brightside]

I don't even think its the number of managers....but the fact that the longest in post was for 2.5 years is pretty staggering.

[hibsbollah]

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I don't even think its the number of managers....but the fact that the longest in post was for 2.5 years is pretty staggering.

I think thats the thing that jumps out at me too. Hearts had Jeffries andLevein for long spells, im sureAberdeen had Mcinnes and a few other gadgies for a decent innings. And certainly Hearts numbers are bumped up by the Romanov madness where they were in as essentially caretakers.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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I think thats the thing that jumps out at me too. Hearts had Jeffries andLevein for long spells, im sureAberdeen had Mcinnes and a few other gadgies for a decent innings. And certainly Hearts numbers are bumped up by the Romanov madness where they were in as essentially caretakers.

Jeffries was 1 and a half years, Levein was nearly 4. For Aberdeen, they had Calderwood with 5 years and McInnes with 8. Craig Brown got 2 and a bit years and was generally crap the whole time. Giving him time done nothing to bring success. Dundee United gave Levein, Houston and McNamara all about 3 years each.

The thing that stands out for me is that all the managers listed above all came in the door and done fairly well from the off, hence why they got given time. They earned it.

Levein came in to Hearts and finished 5th, 5th, 3rd, 3rd. Calderwood came in and finished 4th, 6th, 3rd, 4th and 4th and McInnes came in and finished 3rd with a cup win, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 4th and then was eventually sacked when they ended up in the bottom 6. Even Jeffries in the 90s, came in, got 4th and a cup final, 4th and a cup final, 3rd and a cup win. Dundee United had Levein, Houston and McNamara over a 9 year period which saw them finish 9th (they had 8 points after 12 games when Levein came in) 5th, 5th, 3rd (and cup), 4th, 4th, 6th, 4th, 5th.

We don’t really have anyone to compare that to other than Mowbray, who we of course never sacked. From looking at our records, I’d suggest we’re in no way an outlier and we all treat managers much the same, with Hearts being the potential outlier.

If they’re doing well, we all keep them (with Hearts being a slight outlier for a period), if they’re not, we all sack them. If they’ve previously done well but then start failing, we all sack them.

The idea we’ve got some highly undesirable record in terms of sacking managers doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny. We’re much the same as anyone else and if a manager doesn’t want our job because he might get sacked then he’ll have slim pickings in terms of job opportunities as we’re much the same as most teams. Given our lack of sustained success compared to the other 3 teams, there could be a genuine argument put forward that we give failing managers longer than others.

[Winston Ingram]

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Bottom line it's the players at fault as well imo really poor to watch not just this season you'd think they would be able to up their performance levels and show some consistency

The bottom line is if the team isn’t performing, the buck stops with the manager.

[Malthibby]

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We were so, so close to jubilation though...

Relief, perhaps, jubilation at pipping Dundee for 6th, naw....
I might have just walked into a 'D'uh' moment here though.....

[Malthibby]

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Relief, perhaps, jubilation at pipping Dundee for 6th, naw....
I might have just walked into a 'D'uh' moment here though.....

Monty...d'uh......