Is he staying?

[ozhibs]

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Aberdeen have just appointed Jimmy Thelin as their new manager.

If Aberdeen do get their act together, then we could be left way behind our direct competitors (Hearts, Aberdeen for third) for next season.

Montgomery has shown nothing to retain his position, and Hibs need to act now, or next season will be a write-off too.

Interesting to see they see this a long term development, does this mean if they don’t make the top 6 or just scape in he won’t be under pressure

GGTTH 🇳🇬

[Onion]

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He’ll be punted if we lose the first 2 games in the bottom 6….and if he isn’t… he f******* well should be.

Having to sack NM after a few games next season would be the worst outcome, and abject failure by all including the Board, and could leave us (yet again) with a disjointed squad of poor players that a new manager cannot get a tune out of. Far better to sack NM now, give the new man time and involvement in recruitment, and spending of the Foley cash. Giving a failing manager time in a new season to PROVE all along that he wasn't up to the job would be so typically Hibs - a soft charity case.

We all talk about Hibs being soft, easy beat, unable to see games out, etc etc. Well, that starts at the top.

[HoboHarry]

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Having to sack NM after a few games next season would be the worst outcome, and abject failure by all including the Board, and could leave us (yet again) with a disjointed squad of poor players that a new manager cannot get a tune out of. Far better to sack NM now, give the new man time and involvement in recruitment, and spending of the Foley cash. Giving a failing manager time in a new season to PROVE all along that he wasn't up to the job would be so typically Hibs - a soft charity case.

We all talk about Hibs being soft, easy beat, unable to see games out, etc etc. Well, that starts at the top.

Why would NM spend the close season signing poor players?

[Since452]

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Most folk knew Johnson was on borrowed time and shouldn't have been given the summer to then be sacked 3 games into the season.

We're in danger of repeating the same scenario only 12 months later.

It won't be long before it's another inevitable season of transition and the new man needs time, his own window etc, etc.

Rinse and repeat.

Get him out now.

Very similar situation, the difference being that in style of play, league position, goal difference. Basically every single metric, Johnson is the superior manager. We'd need to win all of our bottom six fixtures to surpass last seasons points total. There were people pulling their hair out about him but suggesting Montgomery should stay. Wild.

[Nicho87]

I really struggle to understand the reasons for Monty to stay

Listened to the usual hibs podcasts and just can’t buy into some of the opinions in favour of him staying

We’re going (the club) the complete opposition to what we have done in 3/4 managers have failed on previously. Why is it cause Monty is a nice guy? Or moved from Australia?

It’s wild, he’s had 29, plus cup games and a mini pre season in Dubai and we are a poor poor club

El del

Monty 100% out

[Nicho87]

I really struggle to understand the reasons for Monty to stay

Listened to the usual hibs podcasts and just can’t buy into some of the opinions in favour of him staying

We’re going (the club) the complete opposite direction to what we have done in 3/4 managers have failed on previously. Why is it cause Monty is a nice guy? Or moved from Australia?

It’s wild, he’s had 29, plus cup games and a mini pre season in Dubai and we are a poor poor club

El del

Monty 100% out

[matty_f]

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I really struggle to understand the reasons for Monty to stay

Listened to the usual hibs podcasts and just can’t buy into some of the opinions in favour of him staying

We’re going (the club) the complete opposition to what we have done in 3/4 managers have failed on previously. Why is it cause Monty is a nice guy? Or moved from Australia?

It’s wild, he’s had 29, plus cup games and a mini pre season in Dubai and we are a poor poor club

El del

Monty 100% out

I agree - it feels like the argument to keep him hinges on nothing more than hope and optimism that time will be the deciding factor. I think the case for keeping him needs to have some more tangible reasons than that.

[jakeshibs]

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Having to sack NM after a few games next season would be the worst outcome, and abject failure by all including the Board, and could leave us (yet again) with a disjointed squad of poor players that a new manager cannot get a tune out of. Far better to sack NM now, give the new man time and involvement in recruitment, and spending of the Foley cash. Giving a failing manager time in a new season to PROVE all along that he wasn't up to the job would be so typically Hibs - a soft charity case.

We all talk about Hibs being soft, easy beat, unable to see games out, etc etc. Well, that starts at the top.

Then when the next manager fails how long do we give him till christmas??

[Heisenberg]

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I really struggle to understand the reasons for Monty to stay

Listened to the usual hibs podcasts and just can’t buy into some of the opinions in favour of him staying

We’re going (the club) the complete opposition to what we have done in 3/4 managers have failed on previously. Why is it cause Monty is a nice guy? Or moved from Australia?

It’s wild, he’s had 29, plus cup games and a mini pre season in Dubai and we are a poor poor club

El del

Monty 100% out

Yeah there’s nothing to cling onto, I was hoping for top six and having a go at finishing 5th (St Mirren have been ***** for ages and only 3 clear of Dundee now) but to **** up like he did towards the end of the season gives no hope for optimism. At least last season we had a derby win, beat Celtc etc.

[bingo70]

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I really struggle to understand the reasons for Monty to stay

Listened to the usual hibs podcasts and just can’t buy into some of the opinions in favour of him staying

We’re going (the club) the complete opposition to what we have done in 3/4 managers have failed on previously. Why is it cause Monty is a nice guy? Or moved from Australia?

It’s wild, he’s had 29, plus cup games and a mini pre season in Dubai and we are a poor poor club

El del

Monty 100% out

I’m on your side of the argument I think but I do get the counter argument. I think the point is if he stays it’s because we are trying to learn from the previous errors and not just make the same mistakes again.

I personally wouldn’t gamble on him staying next year and it would be incredibly brave decision to stick with him but there is a lot of noise about stability being key to success.

[Pretty Boy]

I think it probably makes sense to keep him until the end of the season now.

The season is done. I know there is a financial argument to be made but I really don't see any massive difference between finishing 7th or 9th, both are abject failures, one just marginally less so. I know there are also all kinds of mental gymnastics being done to frame us as being in danger of the play offs but that is unlikely bordering on the impossible given the way all the results need to go. Even making the 'it's Hibs' allowance it would still be close to an unprecedented run of results for it to happen.

So what is achieved by sacking him now? I don't think the next 5 games will have any bearing on what the board are thinking for next season. They certainly shouldn't, even if we win all 5 the season has still been a failure by any measure. Letting him see it out until then puts us in a position in which both sides can save face. We can mutually part ways with Montgomery citing his family not settling in Scotland and us stating that we understand that and can't stand in his way. He goes and gets a job back in the A League with no sacking on his CV and we avoid looking like a total basket case of a club who sacked 2 managers in one season.

I suppose some will argue acting quicker will allow us to start prepping for next season early. Unless we have our eye on an out of work manager who can start right away then I'm not sure it makes that much difference. We will have some kind of long list and if any of those managers are still in work then they aren't going to walk away now if they still have something to play for and won't want to risk publicly committing to a new job. If we have already decided Montgomery's fate for next season then acting now or acting in 5 weeks really won't make a huge difference.

For me if he stays now or goes makes no difference in the short term, the damage is done. The only real issue for me would be is if we are using the next 5 games as some kind of barometer. It should already be decided one way or another; if he's staying then fine, I don't agree with that decision but losing another 2 or 3 games shouldn't sway that. Likewise if he is going then beating Livingston and Ross County shouldn't cast any doubt on whether that is the right decision.

More generally I haven't really seen many compelling arguments to keep him long term. 'We can't keep sacking managers' seems the most common one. Well, you can keep sacking managers if they keep doing a poor job. Or 'who else is there?' Hundreds of managers; just because Hibs seem adept at picking bad ones doesn't mean there aren't plenty good ones out there. There is a lot of chat that results improved after the January window but stats don't back that up. From his appointment to January 27th Montgomery Played 18, won 5, drew 8 and lost 5. From 3rd February to now he has played 11, won 3, drew 4 and lost 4 (all league games only). That is a pre-window win percentage of 27% and the loss percentage is also 27% and post window it's 27% and 36% respectively. We are winning the same percentage of games since the window closed but the loss percentage is up. That's not an improvement.

I thought the Montgomery appointment was a bold one and I was excited we had gone out and got a manager who was inexperienced but successful. Sadly it hasn't worked out and I don't see any compelling argument to stick with him. Play out the rest of this season then part ways amicably and start again.

[Brizo]

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End of the season would be the perfect time to empty a manager, if that’s the intention. I don’t see the point in getting rid of the guy with five games left and bottom six football ahead. We aren’t in a relegation fight, so we don’t need a desperation sacking in the hope of staying up. It surely makes more sense to play out the season and then look at the manager’s future.

100%

If the Board is going to sack him it should be at the end of the season as that gives his successor the full close season to bring in their players. The worst-case scenario is a repeat of last season where this time its Monty that's binned after a few games and a new manager has to work with a squad of Montgomery signings. Binning Montgomery after the seasons began also makes it much more difficult to attract a manager who is already in a job.

Our owners have a huge decision to make and while I'm not convinced they're up to the job of finding a successor I am convinced that Montgomerys not the man for Hibs.

[bingo70]

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I think it probably makes sense to keep him until the end of the season now.

The season is done. I know there is a financial argument to be made but I really don't see any massive difference between finishing 7th or 9th, both are abject failures, one just marginally less so. I know there are also all kinds of mental gymnastics being done to frame us as being in danger of the play offs but that is unlikely bordering on the impossible given the way all the results need to go. Even making the 'it's Hibs' allowance it would still be close to an unprecedented run of results for it to happen.

So what is achieved by sacking him now? I don't think the next 5 games will have any bearing on what the board are thinking for next season. They certainly shouldn't, even if we win all 5 the season has still been a failure by any measure. Letting him see it out until then puts us in a position in which both sides can save face. We can mutually part ways with Montgomery citing his family not settling in Scotland and us stating that we understand that and can't stand in his way. He goes and gets a job back in the A League with no sacking on his CV and we avoid looking like a total basket case of a club who sacked 2 managers in one season.

I suppose some will argue acting quicker will allow us to start prepping for next season early. Unless we have our eye on an out of work manager who can start right away then I'm not sure it makes that much difference. We will have some kind of long list and if any of those managers are still in work then they aren't going to walk away now if they still have something to play for and won't want to risk publicly committing to a new job. If we have already decided Montgomery's fate for next season then acting now or acting in 5 weeks really won't make a huge difference.

For me if he stays now or goes makes no difference in the short term, the damage is done. The only real issue for me would be is if we are using the next 5 games as some kind of barometer. It should already be decided one way or another; if he's staying then fine, I don't agree with that decision but losing another 2 or 3 games shouldn't sway that. Likewise if he is going then beating Livingston and Ross County shouldn't cast any doubt on whether that is the right decision.

More generally I haven't really seen many compelling arguments to keep him long term. 'We can't keep sacking managers' seems the most common one. Well, you can keep sacking managers if they keep doing a poor job. Or 'who else is there?' Hundreds of managers; just because Hibs seem adept at picking bad ones doesn't mean there aren't plenty good ones out there. There is a lot of chat that results improved after the January window but stats don't back that up. From his appointment to January 27th Montgomery Played 18, won 5, drew 8 and lost 5. From 3rd February to now he has played 11, won 3, drew 4 and lost 4 (all league games only). That is a pre-window win percentage of 27% and the loss percentage is also 27% and post window it's 27% and 36% respectively. We are winning the same percentage of games since the window closed but the loss percentage is up. That's not an improvement.

I thought the Montgomery appointment was a bold one and I was excited we had gone out and got a manager who was inexperienced but successful. Sadly it hasn't worked out and I don't see any compelling argument to stick with him. Play out the rest of this season then part ways amicably and start again.

Do you not think it makes sense to sack him now and try to bring in a new manager asap? I’m not meaning rush the search but if we can appoint the person this season, it could give them time to assess the squad to make improvements in the summer. I just think if we can act decisively it gives the new manager to his the ground running in the summer without any of the usual clean slate arguments.

[Pretty Boy]

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Do you not think it makes sense to sack him now and try to bring in a new manager asap? I’m not meaning rush the search but if we can appoint the person this season, it could give them time to assess the squad to make improvements in the summer. I just think if we can act decisively it gives the new manager to his the ground running in the summer without any of the usual clean slate arguments.

If it's an out of work manager we have our eye on then it could well make sense to act now.

If it's someone like McInnes, Robinson or similar that we want then I don't see any scenario in which they walk away from their current jobs with 5 crucial games left to play for their current clubs.

In that latter instance I'd rather we held fire to get the man we really want rather than settling for someone else for the sake of a few weeks.

[GreenCastle]

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If it's an out of work manager we have our eye on then it could well make sense to act now.

If it's someone like McInnes, Robinson or similar that we want then I don't see any scenario in which they walk away from their current jobs with 5 crucial games left to play for their current clubs.

In that latter instance I'd rather we held fire to get the man we really want rather than settling for someone else for the sake of a few weeks.

More managers become available in summer but if there is a vacancy it may alert some current managers at other clubs into thinking I fancy that Hibs job.

The other question is will Hibs headhunt someone or will they just take applications for the role.

Something else to consider is the contract Monty signed - will it have any clauses about end of season.

He also probably has ££ to pay on his house here in Edinburgh- rented or bought ? So maybe the club are at least giving him time to line up his next move ?

From a selfish Hibs fan point of view I want stability and someone in the door ASAP as feels like every day that passes we are wasting planning time and next seasons preparation.

[flash]

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More managers become available in summer but if there is a vacancy it may may some current managers at other clubs think I fancy that Hibs job.

The other question is will Hibs headhunt someone or will they just take applications for the role.

Something else to consider is the contract Monty signed - will it have any clauses about end of season.

He also probably has ££ to pay on his house here in Edinburgh- rented or bought ? So maybe the club are at least giving him time to line up his next move ?

From a selfish Hibs fan point of view I want stability and someone in the door ASAP as feels like every day that passes we are wasting planning time and next seasons preparation.

Or he simply isn't being sacked.

[bingo70]

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Or he simply isn't being sacked.

Fighting talk.

[flash]

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Fighting talk.

Somebody has to say what other people might not want to hear Bingo.

[.Sean.]

I wish I had the optimism of other posters that Montgomery being punted in inevitable. I don’t think he’ll be going anywhere now I’ve thought about it

Hope I’m wrong, but the club were pretty quick in getting shot of Maloney and Johnson once it was clear the vast majority of the support had turned on the manager, as is the case now

They were also pretty ruthless with Ross on the back of his first full season, he was cut zero slack and was punted in the run up to a cup final. Just feel if he was off he’d have been away earlier in the week

Then again they’ve no came out and gave him the dreaded vote of confidence so might be talking garbage!

[He's here!]

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I think it probably makes sense to keep him until the end of the season now.

The season is done. I know there is a financial argument to be made but I really don't see any massive difference between finishing 7th or 9th, both are abject failures, one just marginally less so. I know there are also all kinds of mental gymnastics being done to frame us as being in danger of the play offs but that is unlikely bordering on the impossible given the way all the results need to go. Even making the 'it's Hibs' allowance it would still be close to an unprecedented run of results for it to happen.

So what is achieved by sacking him now? I don't think the next 5 games will have any bearing on what the board are thinking for next season. They certainly shouldn't, even if we win all 5 the season has still been a failure by any measure. Letting him see it out until then puts us in a position in which both sides can save face. We can mutually part ways with Montgomery citing his family not settling in Scotland and us stating that we understand that and can't stand in his way. He goes and gets a job back in the A League with no sacking on his CV and we avoid looking like a total basket case of a club who sacked 2 managers in one season.

I suppose some will argue acting quicker will allow us to start prepping for next season early. Unless we have our eye on an out of work manager who can start right away then I'm not sure it makes that much difference. We will have some kind of long list and if any of those managers are still in work then they aren't going to walk away now if they still have something to play for and won't want to risk publicly committing to a new job. If we have already decided Montgomery's fate for next season then acting now or acting in 5 weeks really won't make a huge difference.

For me if he stays now or goes makes no difference in the short term, the damage is done. The only real issue for me would be is if we are using the next 5 games as some kind of barometer. It should already be decided one way or another; if he's staying then fine, I don't agree with that decision but losing another 2 or 3 games shouldn't sway that. Likewise if he is going then beating Livingston and Ross County shouldn't cast any doubt on whether that is the right decision.

More generally I haven't really seen many compelling arguments to keep him long term. 'We can't keep sacking managers' seems the most common one. Well, you can keep sacking managers if they keep doing a poor job. Or 'who else is there?' Hundreds of managers; just because Hibs seem adept at picking bad ones doesn't mean there aren't plenty good ones out there. There is a lot of chat that results improved after the January window but stats don't back that up. From his appointment to January 27th Montgomery Played 18, won 5, drew 8 and lost 5. From 3rd February to now he has played 11, won 3, drew 4 and lost 4 (all league games only). That is a pre-window win percentage of 27% and the loss percentage is also 27% and post window it's 27% and 36% respectively. We are winning the same percentage of games since the window closed but the loss percentage is up. That's not an improvement.

I thought the Montgomery appointment was a bold one and I was excited we had gone out and got a manager who was inexperienced but successful. Sadly it hasn't worked out and I don't see any compelling argument to stick with him. Play out the rest of this season then part ways amicably and start again.

The overall stats you include may not back up a claim that results improved, but most folk citing improvement were talking about performances rather than results and hoping that if the performances became consistently better the results would follow.

The 0-3 St Mirren game was the one which really sparked a pile-on about Monty's future and rightly so. It was a disgraceful display and result. However, what won me round (temporarily) was the way we responded to that. We deserved more than we took from the games against Celtic, Aberdeen and Hearts, while we did a professional job in getting the home wins against Ross County and Dundee and we really should have held on to win at County away. However, it's the way we so easily buckled in the key game against St Johnstone that has set the alarm bells ringing for me again. The home win over Livi garnered a lot of positive comments but in hindsight it masked a lot of flaws and as soon as we came up against a more savvy side managed by a savvy manager (Levein) we couldn't cope.

I'm certainly concerned by the prospect of persevering with Monty now and it's not hard to see us in a real mess come September should we do so. The club's silence on any sort of plan for the future isn't helping instil confidence.

[JohnM1875]

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Or he simply isn't being sacked.

This is it for me. If we were getting rid I honestly think it would've happened by now. He's clearly getting the summer window and a chance with his own squad I reckon.

Don't really agree with it, but if that's what happens I'll give him another chance.

Just so so rare that a manager ever turns it around with such a large proportion of the support are either against or not fully onboard with them.

[easty]

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This is it for me. If we were getting rid I honestly think it would've happened by now. He's clearly getting the summer window and a chance with his own squad I reckon.

Don't really agree with it, but if that's what happens I'll give him another chance.

Just so sorry rare that a manager ever turns it around with such a large proportion of the support are either against or not fully onboard with them.

It’s nothing to do with whatever proportion of the support not backing him. I want him gone, but I want Hibs to do well above that. I support regardless of who’s in charge.

if he does get the summer window and doesn’t improve things, it’ll not be because fans weren’t on board, it’ll be for the same reason we’ve had nae improvement in the 33 games he’s had so far. He’s not capable.

[Nicho87]

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This is it for me. If we were getting rid I honestly think it would've happened by now. He's clearly getting the summer window and a chance with his own squad I reckon.

Don't really agree with it, but if that's what happens I'll give him another chance.

Just so sorry rare that a manager ever turns it around with such a large proportion of the support are either against or not fully onboard with them.

Never nice wishing a manager to get punted

But as a paying customer I have not seen any improvements with results alone, forget performances. On results alone, it’s no where near acceptable.

If he does stay I hope he turns it around. I just see another couple of months of poor results then he goes in September and next season is another right off, transition season, same old.

I’ve reached a point I’d be giving Derek McInnes a blank cheque book to name his price.

Established, proven manager. Who gets results, who you can stick with due to his track record in this league.

Monty, maloney, LJ were/are all massively in experienced or no knowledge of the league.

[flash]

I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

[Cameron1875]

ST sales since general sale was possible must be horrific. I'm sure the board would have been encouraged by initial renewals but if the ST figures barely move over the next 4-6 weeks I expect Monty to be sacked.

For all the flaws in Scottish football, it is good that the main driver of income is from matchday fans so we at least have some power over things.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

I stand with you flash.

At this stage, I'll be surprised if he's sacked before the St Johnstone game now so he's at least got 2 more games imo. But should we struggle in these games the already mounting pressure will become too big for the owners to ignore I'd imagine

So either the club are behind him now, or he's effectively in interim charge to prove himself before the season ends

[Ronniekirk]

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I’m on your side of the argument I think but I do get the counter argument. I think the point is if he stays it’s because we are trying to learn from the previous errors and not just make the same mistakes again.

I personally wouldn’t gamble on him staying next year and it would be incredibly brave decision to stick with him but there is a lot of noise about stability being key to success.

I get the counter argument also . But the goal we lost to Ross County in time added on was criminal He said lessons would be learnt and a few weeks later in another must win game we hadn’t learnt and it’s cost us big style And that after an insipid performance v St Johnstone at home
These games and results have all come with the players signed in January in the team / squad
That's what worries me
it’s another huge rebuild in the summer .So if we don’t get that right it’s going to set us back even further
If our Director of Football as some are reporting is going in the summer when will we appoint new person to that role ,as that clearly has a bearing on recruitment
That’s just another uncertainty to add into the mix
Foley has said he will provide cash and expertise ,and access to other black nights clubs re recruitment and other things , but we really don’t know how this will pan out in practice
Bevan went back injured before kicking a ball Amos wasn’t full match fit before getting injured again
Marcondes has had a few games where he looked the part but hasn’t been consistent
But on the basis of what Monty has done I am not sure he is the man to take us forward
Kenswell needs to stick to the role of increasing income only thsts whst he is good at
If Foley has. Contacts re new Directorvof football and is on the appointment panel re new manager , that may be our best shot
But tge reality is we don’t know how any of this will pan out
But With other clubs looking like attracting new investment we really need to hit the ground running atvthecstsrtvkf next season if we are serious about aiming for third if not next season the season after

[JohnM1875]

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It’s nothing to do with whatever proportion of the support not backing him. I want him gone, but I want Hibs to do well above that. I support regardless of who’s in charge.

if he does get the summer window and doesn’t improve things, it’ll not be because fans weren’t on board, it’ll be for the same reason we’ve had nae improvement in the 33 games he’s had so far. He’s not capable.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. Spot on.

I just meant I can't really think of many instances where a manager was so up against it with the fans, they get kept on and then turn it around. The go to always seems to be Ferguson at Man Utd, nearly 40 year ago

In general I think fans turn when it's deserved (In general! Please don't bring up Jack Ross)

[bingo70]

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

Good post Flash.

I’ve said it a lot but I’m very much leaning towards the Monty out camp but there’s still something nagging away saying he should get the summer. I can’t really pinpoint why and any argument for keeping him (there’s not many) is very easily argued against.

My gut feeling is I just dunno. My logical brain looking at his time with us so far says he should go. Wearing my business hat and pretending I was a decision maker at the club, I’d be desperate to avoid a repeat of this season when we sacked a manager after 3 games, with that being the case, Monty hasn’t shown enough to take that gamble.

Overall, taking everything into account, I’d reluctantly sack him. If we do decide to back him though, I won’t be taking the sort of tantrum I might have had in the past as I don’t think it’s impossible he could turn it around next season.

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I seem to be forever swimming against the tide on here just now despite the fact I wouldn't be particularly bothered if he goes but I can't help but play Devils advocate.

We have definitely improved performance wise since the January window and could easily have several more points than we do.

The fact is though that due to a combination of missed chances, poor defending and horrific refereeing we have ended up where we are.

Obviously two of the three reasons outlined above are self inflicted and the manager must take a deal of responsibility for. He neglected to bring in a no nonsense central defender and that has definitely cost us points.

Having said that we should have beaten Aberdeen, Hertz, St Johnstone, Ross County and Motherwell with the first four of these all containing ludicrous decisions which went against us. We also deserved at least a point at home to Celtic, a game which also included some "interesting" decisions.

On the flipside we were beyond rotten against St Mirren and have only ourselves to blame for failings both in attack and defence.

I suppose my point is had we reached the split with the amount of points I think we deserved we would probably be sitting in 5th and the manager's future wouldn't even be being discussed.

Taking all this into account I really don't think it's so unreasonable that the board feel inclined to give him time particularly when he hasn't even had a summer window yet.

I might be made to look stupid when they sack him this afternoon or something but regardless I am pretty comfortable that everything I have written above is both reasonable and very possible.

I agree with most of this apart from that we should have beaten Aberdeen away. Apart from the obvious penalty which wasn't given, it felt like Aberdeen were the better team that day and the stats looked like they battered us