Is he staying?

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No way have we been treated equally decision wise and absolutely been treated much worse. Incredible take

What's so incredible? That I don't believe there is an agenda against Hibs or that the incompetence (which I fully acknowledge) levels are any higher than they are for any other club in our league. Show me some evidence that supports your view?

Why do you imagine there is an agenda against Hibs?

[jeffers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It clearly can’t be proved for definite however these decisions absolutely impact the outcomes of games.

It clearly can’t be proved but the decisions absolutely impact the outcomes of games seems a bit of a contradiction imo. These decisions absolutely can impact the outcome of games, it’s a subtle difference.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This has become incredible now where we have people queueing up to tell us we weren't shafted after all and even if we were it doesn't matter because we would have still lost all the games anyway.

All so they don't have to cut the manager any slack.

Desperate stuff.

Can you post a multi quote showing all these people queuing up to say this

[jeffers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This has become incredible now where we have people queueing up to tell us we weren't shafted after all and even if we were it doesn't matter because we would have still lost all the games anyway.

All so they don't have to cut the manager any slack.

Can’t agree with you there flash. No one is disagreeing we weren’t shafted, nor is anyone saying we’d still have lost all the games anyway, it’s the “given” that we’d have gained more points if they’d went in our favour that some of us are disagreeing with.

[Stubbsy90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can’t agree with you there flash. No one is disagreeing we weren’t shafted, nor is anyone saying we’d still have lost all the games anyway, it’s the “given” that we’d have gained more points if they’d went in our favour that some of us are disagreeing with.

And the fantasy addition of points to our total whilst completely failing to increase the total of other teams for decisions against them.

For example, there’s a red card against Dundee in a game they drew against Killie in that list easty posted. The red came after 34 minutes. Theres an incorrectly allowed goal against Dundee versus Motherwell in that list in a game they drew. Dundee lost 3-1 at Ibrox and that list says there shouldn’t have been a penalty given for Rangers which was given at 1-1.

And that’s just the ones on that list. Seeing as none of our games are on either of those lists, how many other mistakes has there been?

Going by the way people have argued on here, that could have been anywhere between 4-7 points extra for Dundee. Theres a 90+10 equaliser for Miovski which shouldn’t have counted on that list against St Mirren. I’ve seen an extra 5 points for Hibs and top 5 referenced by JimBHibees - that wouldn’t have got us top 6 had those clubs not been wronged by those listed decisions as well.

If I’m a Dundee fan I’m looking at those lists of decisions reviewed by the independent panel and thinking that Hibs have been involved in absolutely zero controversial decisions whilst they’ve had numerous go against them.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It clearly can’t be proved but the decisions absolutely impact the outcomes of games seems a bit of a contradiction imo. These decisions absolutely can impact the outcome of games, it’s a subtle difference.

Not really a contradiction it clearly can’t be proved as you will never know how it will play out but every chance it will impact the outcome. The wrong added time the wrong throw in taken from the wrong place at Dingwall is a stick on two more points for Hibs.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's so incredible? That I don't believe there is an agenda against Hibs or that the incompetence (which I fully acknowledge) levels are any higher than they are for any other club in our league. Show me some evidence that supports your view?

Why do you imagine there is an agenda against Hibs?

Evidence is watching the games and the list of clearly wrong decisions provided on this site more than once. Do you genuinely think refs are fair?

[jeffers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not really a contradiction it clearly can’t be proved as you will never know how it will play out but every chance it will impact the outcome. The wrong added time the wrong throw in taken from the wrong place at Dingwall is a stick on two more points for Hibs.

Saying there is a chance it will impact the outcome is different from it absolutely will. It’s why I don’t agree we’d definitely have had x number of additional points. We may have had additional points.

The Dingwall throw in was a bad one, we should have been more switched on and defended better though. As we should have been more switched on at the end of the game on Saturday.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Evidence is watching the games and the list of clearly wrong decisions provided on this site more than once. Do you genuinely think refs are fair?

How many times does it need said? Perhaps you should read the last few pages on this thread for context.

No, I think our refs are often incompetent, but not just in their reffing of Hibs.

As had been stated repeatedly you (and me) have no idea as to the extent of poor decisions involving other teams or what the perceptions are from fans of other clubs of how their club is treated

My view is that all teams will have broadly similar gripes. A list of clearly wrong decisions for me is just another so what, it's hardly compelling or definitive evidence.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And the fantasy addition of points to our total whilst completely failing to increase the total of other teams for decisions against them.

For example, there’s a red card against Dundee in a game they drew against Killie in that list easty posted. Theres an incorrectly allowed goal against Dundee versus Motherwell in that list in a game they drew. Dundee lost 3-1 at Ibrox and that list says there shouldn’t have been a penalty given for Rangers which was given at 1-1.

And that’s just the ones on that list. Seeing as none of our games are on either of those lists, how many other mistakes has there been?

Going by the way people have argued on here, that could have been anywhere between 4-7 points extra for Dundee. Theres a 90+10 equaliser for Miovski which shouldn’t have counted on that list against St Mirren. I’ve seen an extra 5 points for Hibs and top 6 referenced by JimBHibees - that wouldn’t have got us top 6 had those clubs not been wronged by those listed decisions as well.

Might just add 5/6 points on to our total last season for the honking calls that went against us and pretend we finished 3rd and were in the group stages of Europe. Bring back LJ he was brilliant

[easty]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Genuinely don’t think any other team has had the catalogue of game changing decisions we have had. It was game after game and both Celtic in league and Rangers in the cup had more than one decision in each game.

When we played Aberdeen and didn’t get the clear hand ball penalty, Aberdeen fans wanted a pen against Marshall for a challenge on Miovski, and Campbell got a yellow for a challenge that they wanted a red for too.

So were we hard done by or did we get away with it that day?

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree - it feels like the argument to keep him hinges on nothing more than hope and optimism that time will be the deciding factor. I think the case for keeping him needs to have some more tangible reasons than that.

I don't think there are any good reasons for keeping him.

Unless he is let go at season end then right now I'm pretty confident that next season we are going to rinse and repeat the same as this, with the addition of his being sacked after a few fixtures. If we begin next season playing the same, ahem, 'style' of football and with the same awful return on results then Easter Road is going to be like a morgue. A very angry one.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Evidence is watching the games and the list of clearly wrong decisions provided on this site more than once. Do you genuinely think refs are fair?

Yeah but in fairness you’ve got the greenest of tinted glasses when it comes to watching Hibs.

It’s not evidence at all. It’s just a long list of decision you’ve decided are wrong.

[allezsauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

While I have a good deal of sympathy with those suggesting that we can't just keep sacking managers and I DO firmly believe that we have been right royally shafted by refs and Var this year, the fact that a very ordinary Hearts team, with one good goalscorer and a rookie manager an be so far ahead of us is pretty damning.

Yep, I think even Hearts fans are amazed at how comfortably they've got third this season given how average their team is. In fairness to Naismith as inexperienced as he is, he's worked out that you need to have a solid spine to the team which is more than what Monty and Lee Johnson have done.

[degenerated]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I dunno. I only know about our ones, but do hear a lot of complaints from most sets of fans.

This came out in Feb, and we’re not on it - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68306579.amp

This was from the first round of fixtures - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67517896.amp

I get that we legitimately feel hard done by, but disproportionately so? I don’t know. Genuinely I don’t know.

Independent report

That's just them marking their own homework.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Saying there is a chance it will impact the outcome is different from it absolutely will. It’s why I don’t agree we’d definitely have had x number of additional points. We may have had additional points.

The Dingwall throw in was a bad one, we should have been more switched on and defended better though. As we should have been more switched on at the end of the game on Saturday.

I would say more than likely have impacted our points rather than a chance. Undoubtedly our awful defending and poor game management contributed to the late goals. My estimate is five points which think is a fair lower estimate an opinion. Dingwall derby Aberdeen and Celtic are games imo we would have won more points than we did get.

[One Day Soon]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That in itself is funny, because 99% of the time I read how Tom English is a fanny and talks ****. Then he says one thing in our favour and he’s no longer talking horse poo?

Most Scottish sports journalists are now heavily wired into the fan sites like these. It's easier than legwork and research so it makes writing the stories easier.

If Tom English and others have kept any eye on .net as part of that process (and they will have done given Montgomery's appalling season and entirely reasonable supporter unhappiness about it) then they will certainly have picked up on the debates about NM's future and what is emerging as the 'he's hopeless get him out/he's been unlucky - it wiz the refs - give the guy a chance' binary debate that has unfolded here.

I'd set about as much stock by anything Tom English says about Hibs as I would anything Danny La Rue might have said. Perhaps less.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah but in fairness you’ve got the greenest of tinted glasses when it comes to watching Hibs.

It’s not evidence at all. It’s just a long list of decision you’ve decided are wrong.

Don’t think i have got the greenest of tinted specs 🤓 and consider myself pretty balanced with decisions. Most neutral observers would consider the Ross county throw in, the penalty v Hearts, the Aberdeen basketball incident and Boyle and Ralston penalty incidents v Celtic to be wrong. You just continue believing refereeing in this country is fair and balanced and will even itself out eventually. Been waiting a while for that eventually

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yep, I think even Hearts fans are amazed at how comfortably they've got third this season given how average their team is. In fairness to Naismith as inexperienced as he is, he's worked out that you need to have a solid spine to the team which is more than what Monty and Lee Johnson have done.

I posted the other day that Hearts had a really poor start to the season along with us.

When Montgomery was appointed we had 3 points, Hearts only had 4. I posted each teams respective record since that point, I can't be bothered doing it again but it's damning reading and a clear indication as to why they now have 62 points and we have 39.

Ultimately come the 19th May Montgomery will have managed all but 4 of our domestic games this season. Our failures, in their own right and when measured against Hearts, are in no small way down to him. He wasn't some guy thrown in at the deep end in mid March charged with saving our season. He's been our manager for almost 90% of the season.

[jeffers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would say more than likely have impacted our points rather than a chance. Undoubtedly our awful defending and poor game management contributed to the late goals. My estimate is five points which think is a fair lower estimate an opinion. Dingwall derby Aberdeen and Celtic are games imo we would have won more points than we did get.

I don’t think we are going to agree on this Jim, so I’m going to bow out of this part of the discussion on Monty.

[Crab apple]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I posted the other day that Hearts had a really poor start to the season along with us.

When Montgomery was appointed we had 3 points, Hearts only had 4. I posted each teams respective record since that point, I can't be bothered doing it again but it's damning reading and a clear indication as to why they now have 62 points and we have 39.

Ultimately come the 19th May Montgomery will have managed all but 4 of our domestic games this season. Our failures, in their own right and when measured against Hearts, are in no small way down to him. He wasn't some guy thrown in at the deep end in mid March charged with saving our season. He's been our manager for almost 90% of the season.

I've been to more away games this season than I normally get to and I think I've only seen us win at Livì. That's dire and even with new players I don't see Monty turning things around.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don’t think we are going to agree on this Jim, so I’m going to bow out of this part of the discussion on Monty.

Fair enough not really trying to fight his corner much as share a lot of the concerns others have just think it isn’t as black and white and a wee bit of context is important and think it unfair to suggest decisions haven’t been a factor. To be honest split on it myself and not sure what the right decision is. Just think should give him more time but won’t die in a ditch over it and can understand if he does go.

[flash]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yeah but in fairness you’ve got the greenest of tinted glasses when it comes to watching Hibs.

It’s not evidence at all. It’s just a long list of decision you’ve decided are wrong.

Aye so it is.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When we played Aberdeen and didn’t get the clear hand ball penalty, Aberdeen fans wanted a pen against Marshall for a challenge on Miovski, and Campbell got a yellow for a challenge that they wanted a red for too.

So were we hard done by or did we get away with it that day?

Fair enough 😄 we were lucky

[jeffers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fair enough not really trying to fight his corner much as share a lot of the concerns others have just think it isn’t as black and white and a wee bit of context is important and think it unfair to suggest decisions haven’t been a factor. To be honest split on it myself and not sure what the right decision is. Just think should give him more time but won’t die in a ditch over it and can understand if he does go.

That’s fair.

Even if I agreed the decisions cost us points there are too many factors that for me give me no confidence giving him more time is the right thing to do.

[Fergus52]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What's so incredible? That I don't believe there is an agenda against Hibs or that the incompetence (which I fully acknowledge) levels are any higher than they are for any other club in our league. Show me some evidence that supports your view?

Why do you imagine there is an agenda against Hibs?

We all know Scottish football is a backwards, insular, closed shop.

We also know that at the start of the season Kensall had a meeting with the referee chiefs, complaining about all the key decisions that had gone against us the season before.

Can you imagine what the senior refs thought having this fake tanned, English guy show up and start berating them. I genuinely think the refs have been out to get us worse than normal this season, likely due to their meeting with Kensall not going well.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Aye so it is.

Glad you agree

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That’s fair.

Even if I agreed the decisions cost us points there are too many factors that for me give me no confidence giving him more time is the right thing to do.

Which is fair

[blackpoolhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We all know Scottish football is a backwards, insular, closed shop.

We also know that at the start of the season Kensall had a meeting with the referee chiefs, complaining about all the key decisions that had gone against us the season before.

Can you imagine what the senior refs thought having this fake tanned, English guy show up and start berating them. I genuinely think the refs have been out to get us worse than normal this season, likely due to their meeting with Kensall not going well.

I hope he does it again, the other option is to say nothing and just sweep this bollox under the carpet.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We all know Scottish football is a backwards, insular, closed shop.

We also know that at the start of the season Kensall had a meeting with the referee chiefs, complaining about all the key decisions that had gone against us the season before.

Can you imagine what the senior refs thought having this fake tanned, English guy show up and start berating them. I genuinely think the refs have been out to get us worse than normal this season, likely due to their meeting with Kensall not going well.

Im not a fan of him. We've been a disaster on the football front under his watch but that's a case of he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He did the right thing in trying to stick up for us. He'd have been criticised for not doing so if he didn't.